Missing Bill Garden designed launch - Anybody seen it?

[kimaging]

I am trying to locate the whereabouts of a boat designed by William Garden and built by my Grandfather Richard Stewart. The boat, originally named "Tlingit" was built in Vancouver Canada in the early 1970's. It is 63' long with a 7' beam, about 2' of freeboard at the cabin and cockpit, and has a canoe stern. It was originally powered by an Easthope 3 cylinder gasoline engine, although Bill thinks it is now electric powered. Evidently the engine is in New York and the hull is in the Los Angles area.

It was located on the East Coast for nearly 20 years after it was purchased from Bill, who in turn had purchased it from my Grandfather in the 1980's. Bill seems to think that it is now located in the Los Angles area, although at this point in his life I can't be sure as to his accuracy.

Please let me know if you have seen this boat, or have any knowledge of it's past or current home port.

Thanks in advance,

Kim Neelley

[boat fan]

Looks like this ...

[kimaging]

Yes boat fan, that's the one. The little stick figure with the hat is supposed to be my Grandfather. After the boat was sold to Bill, he added a forward mast and a small cabin for bunks belowdeck, just ahead of the existing cabin. I also heard that he cut an opening in the forward deck and added a seat for 2 people, kind of like a rumble seat. Regardless, it's pretty hard to confuse with any other boat.

[boat fan]

Yes boat fan, that's the one. The little stick figure with the hat is supposed to be my Grandfather. After the boat was sold to Bill, he added a forward mast and a small cabin for bunks belowdeck, just ahead of the existing cabin. I also heard that he cut an opening in the forward deck and added a seat for 2 people, kind of like a rumble seat. Regardless, it's pretty hard to confuse with any other boat.

Too long ago (Sept 2002 ) I`m afraid ...but found on bolger 3 boatbuilding yahoo group ...................



While crawling around a boatyard on Chesapeake bay's eastern shore
last year I found Tlingit sitting behind a shed. What a beauty! The
boatyard was the old Dickerson yard in Trappe, Md, and Tlingit is now
home ported in Oxford, Md.

[kimaging]

That was the last place we were able to track her. At the time she still was powered by the Easthope. Evidently, the Easthope was removed and sold to someone in Brooklyn, New York. The hull was repowered with electric drive and transported to Los Angeles. The current owner is not the same peroson who owned her in 2002.

I can find no records of her after this, so I was just hoping someone might have actually laid eyes on her recently.

[boat fan]

I hope you are successful k imaging , please do put up photos if you are ...I have always liked this boat.

Someone should build a " replica " :) I have thought about it myself , but not very practical ( that`s a Loooooong trailer :D :D !! ) for my circumstances , unfortunately.

[WestVanHan]

Garden's designs are great imo esp. Katherine and Czarina,met him a couple times.

Isn't there a website in the US Coast Guard where you can search for boat owners via the vessels name??
If it hasn't been changed..or maybe they record the past names as well

[pamarine]

unfortunately the vessel appears not to have been documented with the USCG.

[kimaging]

Last Coast Guard document on the boat expired in Feb. 2002. Due to privacy restrictions, ownership is not available. No location information is available either.

Bill and my Grandfather were great friends, and as a kid I spent many a day with both of them on one of their boats. We also own a small island about 5 kilometers away from Bill's and he would come over for dinner almost once a week during the summer.

I thought everyone grew up with those type of experiences, but as I get older I have realized how unique some of my experiences were. Bill designed at least six boats that were built by my grandfather, and many more that only exist on paper. The two of them were quite the pair when they were together. And Bill is not only a tremendous designer, he is one of the most down to earth people I ever meet. A really good human being.

I am a little biased, but this particular boat is my personal favorite of his myriad creations.

[Submarine Tom]

I can't say I've ever seen this boat around Vancouver Island or the Queen Charlottes. But I have sailed one of Gardens Walloons (FRAYA) for years before the owner went bully-up and she was sold at action (S.A.L.T.S.) recently in sad, sad shape for pennies.

Sorry I can't be of any help...

[pamarine]

I was browsing the Woodenboats forum and somebody reported seeing it when it was for sale in MD. No date given but may be worth asking over there about?

[TollyWally]

Kimaging,
This is so cool, I've admired that boat from the pictures in a book for a long long time. While I can't add anything to the search I certainly wish you the best of luck. It's funny how what as children seems normal can, as you point out, be quite unique. Congratulations on a splendid choice in Grandfathers! :)

[kimaging]

Submarine Tom, pamarine, TollyWally, WestVanHan, and others,

Thanks for the comments. The entries on Woodenboats forum are from about the same time that the registration trail dissappears, 2002.

When my Grandfather owned her she was home ported at Canoe Cove, on Vancouver Island, walking distance from the Swartz Bay ferry terminal. This would have been from the early 70's through the mid 1980's. Bill's Island is in the same area, and we would pass his place on the way to ours. To the best of my recollection it would have spent around 20 years in that part of the Northwest.

One of the really amazing things about this particular Garden design, is that it was designed from the outset to be built as cheaply as possible. Some of the framing was done with 2x4's, and the hull was plywood with fiberglass over the top. I believe my Grandfather actually bought the Easthope motor from Bill, who had it lying around around his shop. Some versions of the story actually say that the motor was the inspiration for the entire project. Both men were attracted to the old, slow speed engines, both diesel and gasoline.

Despite the cheap and somewhat inflexible building methods, the lines on the boat are just amazing. What Bill did with sheets of plywood is nothing short of amazing. I can't even begin to imagine what this type of design would look like, if it were designed from the outset to be built in more traditional materials, and cost was less of a concern.

It is also amazing to me that my Grandfather, who was nearing 60 at the time, and Bill who was not all that much younger conceived such an efficient design. This is before the first Middle East oil embargo, in 1973, and fuel is ridiculously cheap at the time. This boat absolutely sipped fuel, and left very little wake for it's size and speed. Neither of these guys were what we would think of as "Cutting Edge" technology fans. The design was just so radically different than anything going on at the time.

It was not a boat for just anyone. It took several minutes of hand oiling before the motor could even be started. Then there was the proper positioning of the spark retarder, and finally releasing the compression release at the proper time during cranking. Most people would have difficulty just getting the engine running. And that was before you cast off the lines and tried to manuver your way out of the marina. Although so graceful in form, she was a pig in slow speed manuvering. No steering whatsoever when going astern. Back down a little ways, then into forward with full rudder to get the boat oriented properly, repeat until free of the confines of the marina. She didn't like turning, even at speed, and in a beam sea she rolled like crazy. But if you were running against or with the seas she just cut through the chop like a hot knife through butter. If you saw her at sea, I don't think you'd forget about her anytime soon. She was just so weird, compared to what others were doing at the time.

Thanks one and all for the interest. I'm going to try and get some pictures to post, but my mother who lives in another state has most of the family pictures of Tlingit.

[Submarine Tom]

Kim,

Bill still lives on his Island, I spoke with him the other day.

Canoe Cove is alive and well too despite a recent, three boat fire.

Give their web-site contact link a try as there are lots of golden oldies

around there still. I'm a little surprised nobody here has coughed up the

info you're after but the main players tend to be a small group.

Best of luck, Tom

[kimaging]

Tom,

My Mother, Brother, Sister and I still own our Island. I was just up in your neck of the woods in August. I haven't gone to see Bill in many years, I knew him mostly as a boy and young man in the 60's and 70's. My Grandfather passed away in 2000, and had not been in good health for about five years. I don't believe he had seen Bill since the summer of 1994. I respect Bill's desire for privacy so I don't bother him when I'm up there.

Our caretaker, Lloyd still sees Bill on a regular basis, last weekend as a mater of fact. That meeting was the impetus for this thread. We thought the boat was still back East. Bill told Lloyd that the Easthope had been removed and was in Brooklyn, New York. He also believes that the hull is now in Los Angeles and is electic powered. I think Lloyd is going out to see Bill this weekend, and was going to see if Bill had anymore details.

Will keep you posted,

Kim Neelley

[jwied1999]

I have spoke with the Neelley's and passed allong that Tlingit is alive and well in Riverside, CA awaiting a rebuild. Katherine was just finished and Claymore is also in line. See attached photos37003

37004

37005

37006

37007[/ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH]

[jwied1999]

37012That is Bill inspecting the restoration work on "Katherine" at his island last week37008

37009

37010

37011

[u4ea32]

Please provide some details on Katherine and Claymore. Claymore looks very interesting!

[jwied1999]

Under my Member Gallery is some other photos of Claymore. It is similar to a Garden boat big built shown in the launchings section of the current Wooden Boat Mag. Claymore, Tlingit & Katherine are all in the first Bill Garden Book Yacht Design.

[boat fan]

Great pictures , Thank you.:cool:

[Commuter Boats]

Please provide some details on Katherine and Claymore. Claymore looks very interesting!
I purchased William Garden's " Yacht Designs" in 1978 and have gotten countless hours of enjoyment from Williams designs and thoughts, all three of the designs mentioned in this thread are featured in this first of three wonderful books written Mr. Garden and all three should be read by anyone that would consider themselves a true boataholic.
My volume is falling apart and although all of the designs featured in his first book are reproduced in this third book ( along with additional designs), the quality of the printing in only the first allows you to read Williams notes with a good glass.

[Commuter Boats]

I've previously missed this thread and absolutely enjoyed reading previous posts and remembering all the good times I've had on Tlingit... I've never really been a board , but I bet I've had Bills book open to Tlingit's pages for a hundred hours of daydreaming...
A couple years back there was a gentleman on this forum looking for Tlingit's design. He suggested that all of William Gardens designs were locked up in a museum back east and that Bill have redesigned Tlingit's bottom in an effort to rectify some of its shortcomings. If I remember correctly there was suggestions of a Bolger type "boxed keel" or maybe a Garr type Seabright bottom but the gentleman could not gain access to the design changes.
In Bill's second book ( the fourth photo) he mentions that he acquired the boat and updated it with a forward cabin, in his third book he again mentions it and suggests " number two should have another foot of bottom width..." ( the fifth photo).
I've read what was stated of its handling would very much like to further that discussion. Gerald

[boat fan]

excellent ...thanks :)

[jwied1999]

This is a picture of the Tlingit model mentioned in the book

[Russell Dawkins]

Forgive me for resurrecting an old thread - I encountered it in doing a search on William Garden and Klingit.

I saw this boat at Canoe Cove Marina in the early 70's and returned a few times, mainly to take in her lines again. Poetry in plywood!
On one occasion I was told that Bill used it to ferry himself back and forth to his island office and that Bill had recently modified the hull by attaching a shallow "V" to the formerly flat bottom of the forward part, since it pounded a little under certain conditions of chop.
That he was enamored of the 3 cylinder Easthope was evidenced by the fact that it was enclosed in a plexiglass-windowed space so the whole world could admire the aesthetics.

An inspiring boat, indeed, and one that fueled many a fantasy.

[Submarine Tom]

He's an interesting guy, and quite approachable. I spoke with him about a year ago on the phone.

-Tom

[kimaging]

Russell,

The name of the boat is pronounced more like "Klingit", than the actual spelling Tlingit. I'm glad you resurrected the thread; I've been meaning to upload a few pictures and hadn't gotten around to it.

Bill always had smaller boats to move him back and forth between his Island and the marina. Using Tlingit to do that particular commute would have been pretty impractical. Taking Tlingit out of the marina was in no way a turn-key operation. I have heard many stories of modifications made below the waterline by Bill after he took ownership from my Grandfather. However, the only modifications I have every confirmed were above the waterline. As to the enclosure around the Easthope, that was done by my Grandfather.

When it was launched, the Easthope was completely exposed as can be seen in the black and white photos. In the first photo looking forward, my Grandfather is lying down on the bow, looking over the side. Next to my foot on the wheel, you can see the ignition switch for the motor and right above my big toe is the throttle mounted on top of the 'firewall'. To the right of the rocker arms you can just see the top of the gear selector arm.

In the second photo looking aft, you can just see the top of the flywheel at the bottom of the picture. The v-belts were run directly off the flywheel to the alternator and a starter motor from a dodge pickup truck. The simple throttle can be seen very clearly on the firewall.

After the first summer with the boat, my Grandmother just couldn't live with the Grandchildren being on the boat and exposed to all the moving metal and rubber. So the 'firewall' was extended around the engine, although this made the passage into the forward cabin even narrower. Keep in mind that the Easthope had a complete loss oiling system. There was no sump or oil pump, and no oil was circulated internally. There were 4 drip oilers for the main bearings, but all other oiling was either by splash internally or by hand application with an oil can. Several small doors had to be included to allow access to the lower parts of the engine. Additionally gear selection was accomplished by an arm directly connected to the transmission. It is not practical to put these engines in a box; you have to have access to the engine to run it.

After several more summers there was again concern on the part of my Grandmother about the valve train still being too exposed. Additionally, despite the fact that engines like these make music, not noise, having a conversation in the cabin or at the helm was difficult. So the Plexiglas enclosure was added to address both of those issues. In the color photos you can see the Plexiglas enclosure, which included a small door forward on the port side. On the starboard side there were 2 panels which slid all the way from front to back. When one was forward and the other aft, the engine room was ‘sealed’. During starting and maneuvering, the aft section was slid forward to allow access to the aft end of the engine.
While the enclosure solved the safety and noise issues, while maintaining forward visibility from the helm, it did make for some interesting contortions for the skipper. The wheel, ignition switch and throttle were located outside of the engine room. The spark retarder, compression release and gear selector were located inside the engine room. This meant standing in the awkward position at the corner of the engine room during starting and maneuvering as can be seen in both photos. One hand inside and one hand outside was the only way it worked.

Regards and a Happy New Year,

Kim Neelley

[kimaging]

A couple more pictures of Tlingit and one of Bill in the 80's. Also 2 pictures of Captain Teach, the 80' x 10' follow-on design to Tlingit.

[Russell Dawkins]

Thanks for the additional information, Kim, and the photos. I am amazed that I am communicating with the grandson of the fellow Tlingit was built for (after all these years!).

I "knew" the spelling was Tlingit. "Klingit" is how I hear it, though, which led to the subliminal slip, I guess!

Further to the comment about the "v" surface being added to the forward hull bottom, another part of this mystery individual's conversation that stuck with me was his description of the movement of Tlingit. He said it was a sight to see when under way - it moved like a navy destroyer - seemingly uninfluenced by the chop as it sliced through, and leaning outwards on turns as destroyers do.

I never did see it in motion.

The photos of Captain Teach are appreciated, too. Another fascinating and desirable boat. I can imagine that stern could come in handy in many ways, plus the extra beam would make the boat more practical without it being much harder to drive, I would think. If I'm not mistaken, I saw it enter Victoria's Inner Harbour a few years ago. If it wasn't Captain Teach it was certainly a Garden - there's no mistaking the lines, especially in combination with the cabin roof.

What timeless designs these are - Katherine, in particular.

Happy New Year to you too, Kim.

[Pierre R]

I would be interested to know how Captain Teach actually handled and cruised?

[Commuter Boats]

Thank you, kimaging, please continue to provide any and all information on Bill and his boats as I'm sure others would enjoy it as much as I would.
I never met Mr. Gardner but a good friend of my fathers apprenticed with Bill and even that loose association yields influence.