Battery Electric - Lithium Choices

[Rick Willoughby]

I thought it time to start collecting information on lithium batteries in one location as there are quite a few battery electric projects under way.

It would be nice to have a point of reference for this emerging technology.

I have started to dabble with lithium. My first purchase was a 5Ah 22V LiPo. It is scary power for 715g. I purchased a charger that can be selected for a range of batteries. The cells go to 4.1V on charge.

My latest Ryobi battery power tool has a lithium battery. It does a nice job but very early days.

I am particularly interested in large format batteries. There are some here:
http://lithiumenergy.jp/en/products/index.html
I saw these close up at a car show. I do not think you can buy them yet.

Someone pointed this lot out:
http://www.valence.com/?q=products/battery_modules/u-charge_xp/specifications

OK - who has lithium batteries and how are they performing?

Rick W

[Submarine Tom]

5Ah 22v from a 715 kg LiPo battery?

You got ripped off man!

That IS scary.

[Rick Willoughby]

5Ah 22v from a 715 kg LiPo battery?

You got ripped off man!

That IS scary.

Thanks Tom. I have corrected the original.

Rick

[cameron.d.mm]

EVComponents (http://www.evcomponents.com/) is a US reseller of Skyengery batteries. Maybe there is an Australian one too?

I think that Everspring in Australia sells batteries from Thundersky - http://www.thunder-sky.com/products_en.asp

Both of these LiFePo4 batteries are used a lot in electric car conversions.

[Rick Willoughby]

Cameron
Have you any first hand experience with lithium batteries or do you know anyone one using recent Thundersky batteries?

Rick

[sigurd]

So what does the saphion cost ? And are the Altairnano available to consumers?

edit - Cameron, looks like a nice offering. i added it to this here spreadsheet in excel 5.0 format that i made. feel free to modify etc.

[marshmat]

We used Saehan Enertech lithium polymer cells in the last solar car I worked on..... depending on conditions and discharge profile, we were getting from 4 to 5 kWh out of a pack that weighed about 30 kg including controller. Great little cells, if a tad finicky. A couple of cars before that, we had a Molicel Li-ion pack made by E-One Moli Energy; I think that pack is in storage now and about 10-12 years old but was still strong enough to run a car when we checked it a couple of years ago.

[Rick Willoughby]

Mat
Here is the web site for the batteries you referenced:
http://shenertech.en.ec21.com/OEM_Battery_Pack--315319_315320.html

Have you any idea of current cost?

Also how is the cycle life and shelf life of these batteries.

Rick

[DGreenwood]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wIvMpNzRGE&feature=player_embedded#

Start with this. You can get an idea about safety, power density and price

[jmolan]

http://www.bruceschwab.com/battery.htm

I have no connection with Bruce. I know he has some trick stuff.

[cameron.d.mm]

Rick Willoughby,

No, I haven't used them myself (my car will be a lead sled when I get it done) but a lot of people have used them. I'm not so sure on the recent TS batteries, but I know that some horror stories circulated about the older ones.

There are a fair number of people at www.diyelectriccar.com who have gone the lithium route. I think there are some Australians too. Check the 'garage' section of the site and you might find some local owners. Generally people there seem happy to answer questions and share experiences.

[Rick Willoughby]

This is one of the links from the DIY electric site:
http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/StoreFront

Not large format but a suitable size for small electric boat and reasonable prices.

Rick W

[Rick Willoughby]

I found some commentary on experience with the Ping batteries:
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/2702-hands-test-48-volt-20-ah-lifepo4-pack-ping-battery

These are about the size you would need for a nice electric outboard for pushing a yacht out of a mooring or a dinghy for a few hours.

Rick W

[BertKu]

What will be the correct way to connect LifePO4 batteries parallel?. I assume with diodes to protect the one battery from discharging/charging other packs. But maybe also with Power MosFets.

My apology Rick, I may have been converted to the LiFePO4 concept. I may have gone overboard with the NiMH batteries. Tonight I will show the multiple NiMH pack I am building on the other thread.

Bert

[Rick Willoughby]

Fullriver now have a range of lithium batteries. The data looks quite good. I wonder what price?
http://www.fentbattery.com/en/Cylindrical.asp?id=452

Rick W

[marshmat]

Rick,

We didn't use the OEM packs from Saehan Enertech; we got bare cells- just a little foil pouch, the size of a pocket notepad, with a couple of metal tabs sticking out. I don't know the model number but I think they were somewhere around 60 grams and 10 watt-hours each, BMS not included. The pricing we had three or four years ago is certainly no longer valid, so not even worth looking up at this point.

[capt vimes]

rick:
you might check out this site:
http://www.houseofbatteries.com/productsearch.php?Chemistry=Lithium-Ion%20and%20Polymer

they have loads of differnet batteries of all types... unfortunately they say nothing of their prices on the internet page... :(
but they have decent and good information on almost every single type of cell or pack you want to purchase...

[Rick Willoughby]

rick:
you might check out this site:
http://www.houseofbatteries.com/productsearch.php?Chemistry=Lithium-Ion%20and%20Polymer

they have loads of differnet batteries of all types... unfortunately they say nothing of their prices on the internet page... :(
but they have decent and good information on almost every single type of cell or pack you want to purchase...

Thanks for that.

There are some impressive cells and batteries in there. These seem a step above what is on offer elsewhere. I would like to see a price list. The Saft cells are made for use in space. You can bet they will be verrrrry expensive.

Rick W

[capt vimes]

The Saft cells are made for use in space. You can bet they will be verrrrry expensive.

Rick W

i will not bet against it... :p ;)