Plywood and Such, Complications, etc.

[mgriffin]

In the process of building my small boat, I will need to now something about plywood. I now some things about it, but my main question is about fiberglassing it. Do I have to? What I'm trying to say is how did the Vikings make a wooden boat that didn't sink or get waterlogged without fiberglass? Fiberglass was invented hundreds, if not thousands of years after they built their boats. Did they seal their boat with tar? I've heard of people using cotton and tar to make a caulking mixture to seal the seams, but how did they keep the wood not covered from getting waterlogged? Or did they smear the all the hull with tar?

[hoytedow]

The Vikings did not build boats with plywood.
Many kinds of fiber can be used to rope a seam, including that made of cotton, sisal, hemp, oakum or even human hair if need be.
The wood boat, as it gets waterlogged actually swells as it takes up water and if the joints are well made, the swelling actually seals the hull against leaking.
The tar referred to in much ancient boatbuilding accounts is actually pine tar, and not, for the most part, tar derived from petroleum based chemicals.

[PAR]

They didn't seal their boats, which in fact leaked like a bottomless bucket. These boats had members of the crew constantly bailing or working primitive pumps. Wood did get water logged and they did smear tar all over everything, including the hulls. Of course the tar also got all over everything else, people especially. It was tracked all over the boat, into food, literally everywhere.

Christopher Columbus' ship's logs aboard the fleet showed they "manned the pumps" about 15 minutes every hour during the first Atlantic crossing, meaning things hadn't gotten much better in spite of 500 years of maritime advancement.

So, your thoughts of going back to a "kinder and gentler" time when boat building was easier, cheaper and preformed with hand tools is novel enough, but not particularly practical.

Unfortunately, there's no sitting around the camp fire, eating smores and singing Kum Ba Ya, if you go back to these methods.

Plywood has much to recommend it and some draw backs, just like every other choice in yacht design and construction. There's no way around this, it's just a reality of life.

No, you don't have to 'glass plywood, but it's recommended by everyone for good reason. If you elect to not 'glass you plywood, you can expect certain things to happen, that may not if it is 'glassed. Again, this is one of the trade offs that must be accepted.

[tkk]

They didn't seal their boats, which in fact leaked like a bottomless bucket. These boats had members of the crew constantly bailing or working primitive pumps. Wood did get water logged and they did smear tar all over everything, including the hulls. Of course the tar also got all over everything else, people especially. It was tracked all over the boat, into food, literally everywhere.

PAR, it doesn´t need to be like that! Pine tar used in a proper way is not as sticky as you might think. At least not up here in Scandinavia.

My old Dad said that the tar has to be applied before the ice melts in Spring. That way it has enough time to dry and settle and it won´t be sticky even on the sunniest days (by Finnish standards:p ) of the Summer. I think the sunshine combined with cold air also helps the tar set.

If applied too late the tar will be sticky the whole Summer and you will have it in your hands, clothes and everywhere.

Since you don´t have ice in Florida to time your tar application, I don´t know if it works at all down there :D

[Manie B]

Sorry a bit off topic

Christopher Columbus' ship's logs aboard the fleet showed they "manned the pumps" about 15 minutes every hour

this is a well known fact

but

have you guys got any details or drawings of how those pumps were made in those days, i have not come up with anything meaningfull, would be nice if someone that knows the history could come up with a drawing or good description

thanks gents

[hoytedow]

I believe they were double piston double action pumps manned by 2 sailors at a time. I will try to find a picture.

[hoytedow]

I couldn't find any illustrations, but they were described as made of copper, with lead sheathing, having leather flapper valves...

[apex1]

Quite often these pumps were simply made of wood. The principle arrangement is shown here:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/Papenburg_Lenzpumpe.jpg/180px-Papenburg_Lenzpumpe.jpg
Regards
Richard

[hoytedow]

Thanks, Richard. That was the configuration I had in mind, except with a T-handle on each end of the lever.

[apex1]

There is a handle to be attached on purpose, but for ease of lines handling removed in everyday service.

[hoytedow]

Thanks for the info. I saw the holes in the lever and suspected something was missing.

[missinginaction]

Unfortunately, there's no sitting around the camp fire, eating smores and singing Kum Ba Ya, if you go back to these methods.

I had to pick myself off the floor from laughing! You should go into show business.

The guy was asking about not glassing plywood though. One of my old friends down at the club uses cotton and this homemade mixture of some kind of marine paint some kind of oil (linseed?) and the wax from the rings that you use to seal toilets to the standpipe. We work this mix into the seams of his wooden hull. It's a lot of work, but this guy is almost 90 and he's an old Navy lifer. He knows his stuff and his homemade mixture performs very well and costs next to nothing. BTW his boat was built in 1913 and she's a beauty for her age. I've learned a lot from this guy.

I'd say to always glass plywood. Am I right?

Now I'm gonna go light me a campfire....anybody know the lyrics.........some one's calking lord, Kum By Ya.....

MIA

[mgriffin]

Yeah, I figured that you had to glass the entire hull of the boat. I don't want my boat to be cheap, and I might end up spending 200$ to build it, or if I really want a boat that lasts, I could spend 300$ on it. I'd probably have to use 100$ for the glass alone though! I want a boat that will take a beating and shake it off and keep going. Hell, I might make the hull out of 1/2 inch ply if possible! I just want a boat that will outlast those cheap plywood so called boats made out 1/8 inch ply and are as fragile as an eggshell. I might take it on the Platte river if we move to Colorado, so I would attach a metal strip to the bottom so it can take a grinding without any major damage. I am also going to put six 10" bumper tires on it so I can hit stuff and survive it. To strengthen the hull I will also add a frame out of 2x4 running from bow to stern and from port to starboard. I will use that as a seat, or at least a 1' by 3.5' board on top of the frame running from port to starboard. Don't remind me how heavy it's going to be! We have a truck, we could just put it in the bed of it and tie it to the truck to keep it from slipping out. I can lift 70 lbs, maybe a bit more, but I still might need some help getting it in the bed of the truck. I would estimate the weight to increase by 20-25 lbs from the original 40 lbs. You can tell me how much it will weigh with these mods if you like, but remember it has a 9" draft with 350 lbs of displacement. So that is 40 pounds for every inch of displacement, or 38.88 pounds if you want to be accurate.

[lewisboats]

1/8" to 1/2"...quite the jump. You built like Arnie? Any boat that someone would make out of 1/8" ply is done for light weight and portability...but simply going to 1/4 would MORE than double the durability of the boat at a penalty of only doubling the weight. Your average fir ply will run about 25 lbs per sheet of 1/4"...figure your weights from there. The African mahoganies will run 18-22 lbs/sheet of 1/4".

[PAR]

Timo, having first hand experience with real tar and the stuff going around as "tar" both are problematic, though I suspect you're correct that your climate may be better suited for this material. I know I've read about fine, 19th century ladies, dressed in their best white outfit, for their first ship board excursions, just to find they're covered in black in a few hours and miserable.

I have seen some sketches of 500 year old bilge pumps and they were double piston pumps as mentioned, with leather valves. I would imagine there were several different designs, though the simplest and most reliable was likely most common. Maybe bucket chains or augers were tried too. It difficult to tell what was employed with the minimal amount of documented information we have from these eras.

Steve, Michael is a lad of 15 and though seemly bright as 15 year olds go, "not ready for prime time" if you're old enough to know what I mean. He'll figure things out soon enough.

[mgriffin]

O.K. I see what ya mean. I don't want a 200 pound boat :D. I'll make it out of 1/4 inch ply then, thought I might as well save a little money.
safety last,

[apex1]

Hmm, well Paul, Michael is 13 actually. And Tar is of course not what we smeer on our planks today. I love your description of the ols "Crinoline" lady though..

Richard

[tkk]

TI know I've read about fine, 19th century ladies, dressed in their best white outfit, for their first ship board excursions, just to find they're covered in black in a few hours and miserable.

I have some first hand observations of the same from the (nineteen) sixties :p

But they were boats treated against the said advise:D

[lewisboats]

O.K. I see what ya mean. I don't want a 200 pound boat . I'll make it out of 1/4 inch ply then, thought I might as well save a little money.

Good MIT (Man In Training)...Smart and Thrifty too ;)


Steve, Michael is a lad of 15 and though seemly bright as 15 year olds go, "not ready for prime time" if you're old enough to know what I mean. He'll figure things out soon enough.

Quite bright really...I have to tell my 19 yo things around a dozen times before it sinks in. Oh well...he's got time to learn to be hard headed...hopefully it doesn't run in the family like mine does :D

[tkk]

I know I've read about fine, 19th century ladies, dressed in their best white outfit, for their first ship board excursions, just to find they're covered in black in a few hours and miserable.

Have a look at these ladies, they know that tar is only for the workboats and fishermen

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_BTpcCf0IC44/SsyF-4985ZI/AAAAAAAAALY/nJC18DmH3YE/s912/Girls%20in%20a%20boat.JPG

And this guy is just in time with his tar, as you can see some ice on the lake

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_BTpcCf0IC44/SsyF-9wqotI/AAAAAAAAALc/oAOKRvPp-9Q/tervaus.JPG

These are paintings by major finnish painters of late 19th century.

[gonzo]

mgriffin: Without doing too many calculations there is a simple way to estimate the weight of the boat. Go to the lumber store and see how comfortable you are lifting two sheets of 1/2" plywood at the same time. Try 1/4" and compare.

[mgriffin]

I know gonzo. I'm not going to build out of 1/2 inch.

[mgriffin]

Remember The Alamo! All The People That Died During The Mexican-american War Are Probably Rolling Over In Their Graves Right Now!!!

[gonzo]

Is that because they ate too hot tacos?

[hoytedow]

Nice artwork. Who painted them?

[tkk]

The girls in the boat is by Albert Edelfeldt and the man tarring his boat is by Pekka Halonen

[hoytedow]

Thanks.

[mgriffin]

I've been looking at my boat plans and I have a few questions. I am not making a sailing version, so I will not need the rudder, also, the guy that designed my boat says to use the leeboard as a seat if you are not building a sail rig. The leeboard is 1' wide, so I could just get a cheap board (1 inch thick and 1 foot wide) and cut it to proper size. The leeboard would mean extra cutting, plus, I have to laminate it to 1/2 inch from the 1/4 inch ply I am building with, so that means MORE cutting. All of that when I could just saw a plank to proper size and put it in the center of my boat. CAN'T WAIT TO BUILD IT! Also Apex, I am still using an inboard ;).
Tell me your opinion about the leeboard seat. A weird thing about my boat is that the designer designed it so the wales are around the outside. Does any of you find that unusual? Check out the link below to see what I am talking about:
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/weevee/index.htm
BTW, he calls in a "Carnel Flange"

[PAR]

I strongly urge you not to build this boat. I suspect the first time you step into this thing, it will dump your inexperienced butt into the drink. I'm not much of a Michalak fan, who seems to desire ugly, questionable design concepts and debatable structural arrangements as a design requirements. This boat is about as unsuited to your needs as they get. Reconsider you plans.

[lewisboats]

I know Jim so I won't go there on the other stuff but I definitely think Paul is right in that this is not the boat for what you want to do and if you do go ahead with it anyways...make sure you launch is shallow enough water that you can stand in it...'cause you probably will be doing just that. I had forgotten just which design you had decided on...tsk...tsk...and I thought you had such a bright future!

[mgriffin]

Well, I am not exactly what you would call an inexperienced boater. This isn't going to be the first time I've gotten into a small unstable boat. The only first about it is the fact that this is going to be my first build.

[mgriffin]

I understand that the boat I bought plans for is very unconventional, but I plan to HEAVILY modify it. I will not even use the Carnell flange. I will just use a frame, or I guess you could call it a stiffener. The frame will just be a 1 inch thick board running from side to side, and it will also be the seat. It will be much lighter I suspect. Would you recommend a stiffener running from bow to stern also, or will the seat stiffener be enough?

[PAR]

mgriffin
Would you recommend a . . .

What's the point . . .

[mgriffin]

Yeah your right PAR. I chose a bad design. I was kinda' stupider than I am now. I chose what "Looked cool" to me, and I made a 25 dollar mistake. I know that Jim Michilak is not the only choice as far as boats, but he seemed to be the cheapest :D. Maybe a boat more like this?
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/moby_dink/index.htm
or even this?
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/tween/index.htm
Maybe this?
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/slam_dink/index.htm

[hoytedow]

Store brand cola is cheaper, too.

[mgriffin]

What other cola can you buy, besides store brand? I didn't know that you could grow cola :D.

[hoytedow]

Store brand means has the name of the store that is selling it, not Coke, Pepsi, etc.:D:D

[mgriffin]

OH I see. :(

[hoytedow]

It is OK. We were all young once. You just didn't know.

Ignorance is unavoidable, but curable. We all are ignorant at the beginning.

The sad ones are the ones who never try to pull themselves out of it. Those are the ones we call stupid.

And stupidity is voluntary.

[mgriffin]

I'm getting tired of people saying that I chose bad design for a boat. I admit, I was kind of stupid to choose an 8ft by 3.5 ft V bottom. It was a stupid idea in the first place. Even I was wondering about my choice of design, and I should've asked a professional before choosing a design that was unsuitable. I don't want to have to buy another set of plans just to find out that they are unsuitable too, so I have designed my own boat. You may think that since I have almost no experience in designing boats, that my design would be insufficient, but know this before making any conclusions. The boat I designed has ALMOST no curves. The only curve is in the bottom, when it slopes upward 6 inches and stops at the bow transom which is 1 foot wide by 4 feet long. The entire height of the hull is 1.5 feet though, so the stern transom is 6 inches short of the top of the hull. The entire length of the hull is 8 feet, and it is 4 feet wide. It has a completely flat bottom and sides. Like I said, the only curve is the bottom, so it kind of looks like a barge. It will use the same amount of plywood as the weevee but it will be more stable. To make the each side the same exact dimensions, I will first cut out one of the sides then use it as a pattern for the other side. I know that switching ideas is annoying, but please follow me on this one. Even if I have designed it, it is so far the best boat I have thought about building.

[hoytedow]

Stupid is too harsh a word. You were a victim of your lack of experience, but recover by thinking of it as tuition in The School of Hard Knocks, and do more research before investing any more money. Don't feel bad. Every person on this or any other thread has made mistakes this big or bigger.

[hoytedow]

Almost no curves:http://www.mcdonoughmarine.com/ocean.htm

[hoytedow]

My first boat had NO curves, but two hulls, like the drawing I sent you on an earlier post.

[tkk]

I chose what "Looked cool" to me, and I made a 25 dollar mistake. I know that Jim Michilak is not the only choice as far as boats, but he seemed to be the cheapest :D.

This is even cheaper, it is free!
http://koti.kapsi.fi/hvartial/dinghy1/gallery/dsc_4579.jpg

Instructions (http://koti.kapsi.fi/hvartial/dinghy1/simboii.htm)
More pictures (http://koti.kapsi.fi/hvartial/dinghy1/gallery/gallery.htm)

[mgriffin]

More information please?
Thanks,

[tkk]

Did you check the two links? Plans and more pictures available there.

[mgriffin]

Two words. I'm back. Two more words. I'm smarter. I can understand why PAR got pissed with me. I was STUPID. Seriously! Even I will admit it! I don't know a damned thing about boats, well maybe I know a few things, but that doesn't matter right now. When I came to these forums, I did not know a single thing about modern boat building methods. That said, lets get to the point. I feel bad for asking stupid questions and wasting your time. I did not know better. I was curious. Those are my excuses.

Know that you have my apology, let me tell you that any more questions or threads I ask or start will only be about boats.

One question I have, but this is a very stupid one indeed, is what are the steps of fiberglassing a boat?

[troy2000]

If anyone ever got around to giving a clear answer to the original question this thread started with, I missed it. Here was the question:

I will need to know something about plywood. I know some things about it, but my main question is about fiberglassing it. Do I have to?

I'm not a professional designer or builder, but here's my answer: no. :)

Whether you should not depends on a whole lot of factors. But if you're building a small boat, and especially if you're building one that will be hauled out when not in use, it's probably not worth the bother and the expense. Get it built, seal it and paint it, and get it in the water.

At most you may want to tape the chines, if you're building a flat -bottomed or V-bottomed hull. Personally, I've never even done that. Of course, none of my boats have been works of art meant to be preserved and passed on down to following generations, either....

[troy2000]

By the way: making an error in judgment (if you in fact did) is hardly proof of stupidity.

Don't let anyone ever get away with pinning that label on you when you make a mistake, and definitely don't ever pin it on yourself.

[souljour2000]

Good advice all around Troy...I agree that you don't need to glass this boat...the only drawback is that it wont have the extra strength and if you decide to glass the boat later you will have to scrape off lots and lots of paint. Most common exterior housepaints were formulated after millions of dollars of research by billion-dollar companies such as Dow Corning..Dupont..and so forth....in other words..they work well...They can block UV and moisture...your worst enemies... and combat them well...especially if you have a few good coats of sealer and then a few coats of primer before you lay down your topcoats.Some more expensive epoxy paints and some enamel paints have even more resistance to moisture and dings/scratches. If you go with cheaper household paint..make sure it is exterior paint. Here's the catch though: when you get those inevitable dings and scratches...make sure it's dry and immediately sand the area and re-paint the area before moisture gets in there. If you want a boat that demands much less of this type of on-going maintenance...glass it....
Good luck and read everything you can...don't be afraid to ask questions...it's only a "mistake" if you repeat it...or if you don't try in the first place out of fear of "making a mistake"

[apex1]

Welcome back Mike,

Paul is not pissed with you! It needs more than a inexperienced youngster to get us on edge.

There is a good tutorial for glass and resin handling on the "West System" website.

Regards
Richard

[hoytedow]

Two words. I'm back. Two more words. I'm smarter. I can understand why PAR got pissed with me. I was STUPID. Seriously! Even I will admit it! I don't know a damned thing about boats, well maybe I know a few things, but that doesn't matter right now. When I came to these forums, I did not know a single thing about modern boat building methods. That said, lets get to the point. I feel bad for asking stupid questions and wasting your time. I did not know better. I was curious. Those are my excuses.

Know that you have my apology, let me tell you that any more questions or threads I ask or start will only be about boats.

One question I have, but this is a very stupid one indeed, is what are the steps of fiberglassing a boat?Welcome back. There are no stupid questions. Keep them coming and we will try to answer them when we can.

[hoytedow]

I did not glass my first boat. It was also built of substandard materials, but I was still able to get out there and have a good time on it and use it as a learning platform until I could build a better one. Never give up.

[peter radclyffe]

Yeah, I figured that you had to glass the entire hull of the boat. I don't want my boat to be cheap, and I might end up spending 200$ to build it, or if I really want a boat that lasts, I could spend 300$ on it. I'd probably have to use 100$ for the glass alone though! I want a boat that will take a beating and shake it off and keep going. Hell, I might make the hull out of 1/2 inch ply if possible! I just want a boat that will outlast those cheap plywood so called boats made out 1/8 inch ply and are as fragile as an eggshell. I might take it on the Platte river if we move to Colorado, so I would attach a metal strip to the bottom so it can take a grinding without any major damage. I am also going to put six 10" bumper tires on it so I can hit stuff and survive it. To strengthen the hull I will also add a frame out of 2x4 running from bow to stern and from port to starboard. I will use that as a seat, or at least a 1' by 3.5' board on top of the frame running from port to starboard. Don't remind me how heavy it's going to be! We have a truck, we could just put it in the bed of it and tie it to the truck to keep it from slipping out. I can lift 70 lbs, maybe a bit more, but I still might need some help getting it in the bed of the truck. I would estimate the weight to increase by 20-25 lbs from the original 40 lbs. You can tell me how much it will weigh with these mods if you like, but remember it has a 9" draft with 350 lbs of displacement. So that is 40 pounds for every inch of displacement, or 38.88 pounds if you want to be accurate.


dont mess about, build it out of steel plate

[troy2000]

dont mess about, build it out of steel plate

:p :p

[mgriffin]

Well I guess that answers my question! I don't need to fiberglass. I'll just by marine grade and not worry about the fiberglass.
BTW here's what my boat will look like:

[hoytedow]

You will still need to glue all joints and paint it well so it will be well sealed. Keep it out of the water when it is not being used. Stainless steel screws at least- cad or zinc plated ones will be a disaster. Good luck!

[mgriffin]

Painting and gluing will be easier than a glass job at least! Would you recommend caulking the seams? I think that wouldn't really be necessary, but it won't hurt to ask. Another question I have is how long will the boat last if I don't glass it? I am guessing around five years.

[apex1]

There is no caulking in modern boatbuilding Mike.


Get your chores on the mail side done please!

[gonzo]

Fiberglass tape over the seams is a structural element. It also makes them watertight. The best part, is that you can have poor fits and still have no leaks.

[mgriffin]

There are several assumsions being made, before a design is actually selected.

I think the nesting "freighter" is a poor fit for Michael. It will be heavy, difficult to transport, take considerably more material to build, take considerably more time to build, will have limited maneuverability and limited usefulness.

Yes, you can skip 'glass, 'glass tape and epoxy all together, though you'll need a special design for this.

How long it lasts is subject directly to the care you provide. Given reasonable care, it could last a few decades, of course it will receive minor repairs and upgrades along the way. Given zero care it could last a few years.

Don't jump on a design until you define what the boat's use will be and most importantly, what your desires in the boat are.

You've switched from a mini tug boat to a camp cruiser to a houseboat to a weird contrivance of a freighter/push boat. This level of indecision suggests you're still trying to figure out what you want and need. In other words, keep looking and defining your goals and needs. You can just as easily build a boat that you'll hate to use as one you just love. This research now, will pay off huge come time to launch this puppy, so don't short change yourself, just to say you've selected a design.

You have made a very good point PAR, and ever since I decided to try and build a boat, I have searched for a certain type of boat. It meets all of my requirements which are these:
1. It has to have a shallow draft
2. It has to have a high load capacity (at least 1000 lbs maximum capacity)
3. It has to have some freeboard so it can survive small waves
4. It has to have some rocker (at least 4 inches, which on the TIMS design is in the front half only)
5. It has to be slightly narrow, (4 feet wide)

It meets all of my requirements, and it will only be 16 feet long, so what can go wrong? I might as well tape the seams, I mean ow hard could that be?

[mgriffin]

I understand what you are saying, but I am going to build only TWO sections, which is around 6 sheets of ply if I build a cabin on it, and it will only be 16 feet long if I build TWO sections like I said above. Front half and back half. It's that simple.

[Wayne Grabow]

This was my first build which I used on the Platte River.

[mgriffin]

How old were you when you did your first build Wayne?
I hope to be fourteen when I build my first boat. I turn fourteen this month.

[Wayne Grabow]

Michael, I was 28 when I built that boat. You are definitely starting young. Be careful about boatbuilding; it can be addictive. I am now building my seventh boat.

That 16' boat was built of 1/4" fir AB plywood over a frame, bonded with resorcinal glue, and with fiberglass tape on the seams. It was light enough to car-top; and well-suited to the wide, shallow Platte River.

Good luck with your plans.

[mgriffin]

If I do go inboard, then should I buy this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-5-hp-Briggs-and-Stratton-side-shaft-engine-runs-great_W0QQitemZ130362700158QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1e5a38f17e

[hoytedow]

Hi, mgriffin,

How old is the engine?
How many hours has it been run?
Was it maintained?
Can it be fitted with a backfire flame arrester?

Ask these questions. Price is not bad. You will need the flame arrester for safety, especially if the hull is enclosed where gas fumes can accumulate.

[troy2000]

You know, I have a bigger version of that engine buried in a shed at the back of my property, on an old power reel mower. Unless some thieving little scumbag has stolen it, of course. They've been vacuuming up anything they find in the neighborhood lately, and selling it to a new scrap dealer who opened up down the road.

I haven't looked at it for a while, but I think it's about a 5-hp motor. Would it be feasible to do some sort of inboard power on a sharpie with it?

[hoytedow]

I have seen a similar engine run a paddle wheel. Why not a prop shaft?

[troy2000]

I have seen a similar engine run a paddle wheel. Why not a prop shaft?

Maybe I could do a paddlewheel Sharpie.:D

Or not.....

[hoytedow]

Maybe I could do a paddlewheel Sharpie.:D

Or not.....You will grab attention, and a lot of laughter, most of it good-natured.

[mgriffin]

I wouldn't laugh, I would be in my boat blowing past your boat, laughing my ass off as I pass you multiple times! ;)
(Good natured humor eh? :D)

Hey look what I found! talk about THUNK...THUNK..THUNK..THUNKTHUNK at 1:34!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn5PA8UYCfU&feature=related
wish you had one now? well it would be good for stationary, IDK about an inboard...

[hoytedow]

I wouldn't laugh, I would be in my boat blowing past your boat, laughing my ass off as I pass you multiple times! ;)
(Good natured humor eh? :D)Slight contradiction, but I get your drift.:cool:

[mgriffin]

yeah, I wouldn't want a paddle wheeler unless I had a steam engine and a perfectly flat bottomed hull! The advantage of paddle wheelers is they can go where no other boat can go. Well, that and they're pretty awesome looking.
BTW, my hull will not be enclosed.

If I remembered my evil-bay account, I would ask those questions. I'll have to ask my mom if she remembers my account username and passcode. I guess it's a good thing that the guy selling it has 100% positive feedback at least!

[rasorinc]

A simple light weight layer of fiberglass assures you the bottom and sides are waterproof. I would never omit this simple process on a boat such as you posted. An all mahogony boat, yes but not yours. Why risk the beginning of an instant rotting process after you worked so hard to make it.

[hoytedow]

If you paint it with a copper based wood preservative it will retard rot for a very long time.

[mgriffin]

Never-ending supply of briggs?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VINTAGE-60s-BRIGGS-AND-STRATTON-ENGINE-GO-KART-MOTOR_W0QQitemZ280458449163QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGo_Karts?hash=item414ca0510b

If I get that red one, I hope it runs this good or better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rgQYcyiIwc&feature=related

CU later

[mgriffin]

Would it last longer of I did this to it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhmZOuK5V4Y&feature=related
Well that's a stupid question! of course it would with lower rpm!
I don't really see the point in doing that though, unless you want more momentum and slower idling. Would you suggest doing it though? just give me your opinion on the matter please.

[hoytedow]

I think it is cool, and you might get better torque.

[mgriffin]

My final question is buy or no buy. I didn't ask those questions because it was too late and by the time the guy got back with the answers the bid would've ended. So buy or no buy. I understand I am taking a risk doing that, but it is a risk I am willing to take. BID ENDS IN THREE HOURS!!!

[troy2000]

My final question is buy or no buy. I didn't ask those questions because it was too late and by the time the guy got back with the answers the bid would've ended. So buy or no buy. I understand I am taking a risk doing that, but it is a risk I am willing to take. BID ENDS IN THREE HOURS!!!
Even if there's no reserve on it and you got it for the twenty bucks (which I doubt), he wants another $22.00 for shipping. And his return policy is, "no returns accepted."

If you can get it for $19.99 plus shipping, it's probably worth the money--if you're sure you're going to use it. But if your first bid says "reserve not met," I'd drop it.

They are easy to work on, if you have any mechanical aptitude, especially if you buy a Chilton's repair manual for small engines. At least 90% of the time, it's just a carburator problem.

[mgriffin]

You sound kinda negative on your first sentence :(.
Okay thank you for your advice. I know what happens if the carburetor is screwed up. It backfires. I could just adjust the fuel/air ratio or change the fuel filter if it does backfire.
My first bid is going to be $20.00.

[troy2000]

You sound kinda negative on your first sentence :(.
Okay thank you for your advice. I know what happens if the carburetor is screwed up. It backfires. I could just adjust the fuel/air ratio or change the fuel filter if it does backfire.
My first bid is going to be $20.00.

Well, there's a bit more to it than that. You can also have sticky float valves, clogged fuel jets, floats that don't float, a clogged air filter, a stuck choke, a bad gasket somewhere, etc. But it's pretty basic stuff.

[hoytedow]

The worst thing would be a cracked cylinder.

[troy2000]

The worst thing would be a cracked cylinder.

Never personally had that happen to me, although there's no doubt it can. After carburators and spark plugs, the most common (and most aggravating) problem I've had is surging or 'hunting.' That usually traces to a bad governor spring...or more likely, someone who had the carburator off hooking the spring back in the wrong hole.

[souljour2000]

Though I don't have much experience with outboard motors..me and a buddy picked a up a distressed 26' sailboat for free back in '04 hurricane season here in FLA...it was a Pearson 26...the guys who owned it had let her go and her cockpit drain hoses which ran through the cabin before draining out were old and developed leaks and filled the cabin with about 250 gallons of mostly rainwater...Since we both worked for a plumbing co..., we grabbed the jetter with a reverse head and sucked out the water...she was lying in sand..keel buried about 10' from a seawall and on the hard...Hurricane Charlie was off of Ft Myers and heading due north and coming right at us...my roomate Jason had got title to the boat after the Salvation army...who the two dudes "bequeathed" her to originally....didn't have a way to or couldn't salvage this boat....we got her pumped out and tied off to a mooring in the manmade cove near my house.We took the 9.9 yamaha into our shop.....blown head gasket...pretty easy fix...she ran great ...for a few weeks...we did a couple good sails....then Hurricane Frances hit...she moved the boat off mooring...just enough that our 9.9 Yamaha kissed the seawall... probably for half the storm...repeatedly.....El smasho....we did have one great nighttime summer sail on her in Sarasota bay before Frances hit...that summer was memorable...

[troy2000]

Not too much experience withoutboard motors..me and a buddy picked a up a distressed 26' sailboat for a dime back in '04 hurricane season here in FLA...it was a Pearson 26...the guys who owned it had let her go so bad her cockpit drains which ran through the cabin had cracked and filled the cabin with 300 gallons of seawater...we both worked for a plumbing co..., we grabbed the jetter with a reverse head and sucked out the water..she was already 10' from a seawall and on the hard...we got title...Salvation army...who the two dudes "bequeathed" her to originally.... couldn't salvage this boat.... we took the 9.9 yamaha into our shop.....blown head gasket...pretty easy fix...she ran great for a few weeks...we did a couple good sails....then Hurricane Frances hit...she moved the boat off mooring...and our 9.9 Yamaha kissed a seawall... probably for half the storm...repeatedly.....El smasho...but it was a good motor up until that point....we did have one great nighttime summer sail one her up and back in Sarasota bay one night before Frances hit...that summer was memorable...Charlie had hit a month before...while we were pumping out 300 gals of seawater from the Pearson...she veered east at the last minute and hit Punta Gorda/Port Charlotte...

When I was overseeing a massive remodel and expansion of a waterfront house in Ft. Lauderdale, I had folks tell me, "you're from California? Man, you gotta be crazy. You'd never catch me livin' there, with all them earthquakes." This was right after Hurricane Andrew....:p

I used to just let it go, like I did with folks who said the same thing in Oklahoma (AKA Tornado Alley) when I was roughnecking on oil rigs there.

[hoytedow]

mgriffin, why don't you drop in on your local lawnmower shop and tell him what you are looking for? He might be able to "match" the internet deal with something off his "scrap" pile. Good luck.:)