Help Finding plans for my dreamtri.

[neptunkryssare]

I have on spent long time to find plans for a good trimaran.
I have theese wishes to be fullfilled before i decide to go ahead building.

1. I want it to be a small boat.
2. I want it to have a cabin just enough for two persons to sleep in with
some luggage or four persons with extremely lightweight luggage.
3. I want it to be fast.
4. I want it to be as easy to build as possible. If possible to build in plywood
without it being to heavy - then i think it should be the easiest for me as i
am complete beginner.
I more want a racing tri than a 'boat on training wheels'

The closest to my dreams that i have found which have plans is chief's tridaka rider http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGapw7cRbyo , but it is a little to small to me (no cabin for two), and i don't think it should be that fast.

Maybe i start with it to get experience, but it should not be my very first choice.

The closest to my dreams all over is ozone/ozone2 http://www.derickreynolds.co.uk/Ozone.htm - but i don't think that there is any plans out for it.
I have mailed them asking for plans, but didn't get any answer.

Mayb it's possible to build a ozone alike from used hobie cat hulls.?

[Raggi_Thor]

This is an old design from Dudly Dix:
http://www.dixdesign.com/3fold6.htm

[neptunkryssare]

Thank you for the answer.
It looks nice, a nice little camper.
I watched the videos which are linked to from that side, and it seems to be quite fast.

But i really looking for something that's a little more like a racer.

Anyone that's want to get involved in such a project.? I can pay for the planes if someone have time and knowledge to create them.

Is it a very bad ide to form the mainhull after the akas and just make it a little wider.?

[Raggi_Thor]

You mean the same length as the akas, just wider?

[Chris Ostlind]

Hi Peter,

Perhaps this design takes you to the place you would like to go?

This particular boat is 21' in length, has plenty of space inside the cabin for two adults to overnight, an aft storage compartment and a comfortable cockpit with large side trampoline surfaces.

It is designed to be built in marine plywood with stitch and glue techniques using epoxy and fiberglass cloth. The amas are demountable and light enough that one person can easily perform the task on the launch ramp.

The boat is shown with an easily stepped yawl rig in the renderings, but it could also be equipped with a Marconi style rig, should you prefer that approach.

You may contact me directly at: Chris@Wedgesail.com if you would like to discuss the design in more detail.

[neptunkryssare]

You mean the same length as the akas, just wider?

yes, or maybe let the mainhull be a little longer but much wider.

It seems thats the concept they use in typhoon, if my eyes not are fooling me.
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/multihulls/16861d1193783536-hobie-j24-trimaran-conversion-typhoon2-inv.jpg

[bob the builder]

i can help!


I have on spent long time pondering tri marans, and have come to the conclusion that they are brilliant!

as long as you make one tiny modification.

just loose the middle hull completely.

see?
leave everything exactly the same, and loose the middle hull.

let me know if i helped!

[neptunkryssare]

Hi Peter,

Perhaps this design takes you to the place you would like to go?

This particular boat is 21' in length, has plenty of space inside the cabin for two adults to overnight, an aft storage compartment and a comfortable cockpit with large side trampoline surfaces.

It is designed to be built in marine plywood with stitch and glue techniques using epoxy and fiberglass cloth. The amas are demountable and light enough that one person can easily perform the task on the launch ramp.

The boat is shown with an easily stepped yawl rig in the renderings, but it could also be equipped with a Marconi style rig, should you prefer that approach.

You may contact me directly at: Chris@Wedgesail.com if you would like to discuss the design in more detail.

The size seems right to me, still its not as close the ozone boat that i'm dying for.

[neptunkryssare]

i can help!


I have on spent long time pondering tri marans, and have come to the conclusion that they are brilliant!

as long as you make one tiny modification.

just loose the middle hull completely.

see?
leave everything exactly the same, and loose the middle hull.

let me know if i helped!

My english is not perfect. Do you mean that i should build a catamaran insted.?

[Chris Ostlind]

So, accomodations are secondary as long as you get the performance?

OK, so, how about this one, then?

[neptunkryssare]

So, accomodations are secondary as long as you get the performance?

OK, so, how about this one, then?

Yes, as long as there are place to sleep a few nights for two with some baggage, or atleast three with minimal baggage.

That boat looks very good.
Is there centerboards.? Where are they centerboards placed, in the mainhull or in the sidehulls.?
Can it lift one hull with the centerboard as foil.?
Would it be able to fly the mainhull.?

[neptunkryssare]

Yes, as long as there are place to sleep a few nights for two with some baggage, or atleast three with minimal baggage.

That boat looks very good.
Is there centerboards.? Where are they centerboards placed, in the mainhull or in the sidehulls.?
Can it lift one hull with the centerboard as foil.?
Would it be able to fly the mainhull.?

Stupid me didn't look close to the pictures, now i see the centerboard in the mainhull.
I like this boat. it's pretty close to what i want.

[neptunkryssare]

Today Derick Reynolds Wrote to me telling there is no buildin plans available

But he told me there is line plans.

Is there any possibility to create a building plan from these.? (of course i will ask Derick about permission for that)...

If that possible, then i will go for that.
Also, the boat Chris designed seems as a pretty good choice.

[Richard Woods]

Ozone wasn't that fast or successful a boat. I know Derek well as he was the originator of Palamos Boatbuild and built the first few Striders before moving on to other things.

You say you are a beginner, presuambly only at boatbuilding as I assume you are already an experienced multihull racer

I would suggest you contact Martin Schoon, now in Goteberg who is one of the most experienced small multihull sailors in Sweden. He has sailed a Tennant Spyder catamaran for over 20 years.

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

www.sailingcatamarans.com

[neptunkryssare]

Ozone wasn't that fast or successful a boat. I know Derek well as he was the originator of Palamos Boatbuild and built the first few Striders before moving on to other things.

You say you are a beginner, presuambly only at boatbuilding as I assume you are already an experienced multihull racer

I would suggest you contact Martin Schoon, now in Goteberg who is one of the most experienced small multihull sailors in Sweden. He has sailed a Tennant Spyder catamaran for over 20 years.

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

www.sailingcatamarans.com

I say thank you for that tips, and also thank you for that compliment.

To be honest, i must admit that i am not an experienced multihull racer.

I am not even an experienced sailor.

Between when i was nine and fourteen i sailed a few dingys all summer long.

Since that i have been off boat the most part of my adult life (i am 44 now). I have had boats the last five-six years and not sailed them as much that in really want to.


For every boat i got i feel so disappointed when i realize how slow they are.
Therefore i have felt the need for a trimaran so i can get the speed and the thrill that i so far only can imagine of sitting on a hull while the boat bunce in the waves.

I need to build it myself because of economical reasons, and it must be easy because i don't want to spend to much time building it and it must be pretty fast.

So i have spent a few months (literally) to pick up whats essential in the multihull world. except the math. All that for the reason that i should got a boat that keeps me (quite) satisfied for a couple of years.

I am grateful for all the tips and ideas that can led to that i finally begin building a great tri.

So the Ozone is not a very fast boat. ok now i know that, but all the rest with it seems pretty right. Now i just need to find a faster tri that follow the same concept and have a small or tiny cabin. Plus that i need plans for it.

[jamez]

How about this; foil stabilised tri can be built out of Double Diagonal ply (or cedar or foam etc.) Half a metre longer than Ozone but performance probably only limited by the weight of your right foot.

http://www.tennantdesign.co.nz/index.php?page=stinger-mk-2

there is also a version with a raised cabin and a foot or so more headroom.

[sabahcat]

Nice little Ray Kendrick Australian design,

http://www.teamscarab.com.au/
http://foldingtrimaran.blogspot.com/

[neptunkryssare]

How about this; foil stabilised tri can be built out of Double Diagonal ply (or cedar or foam etc.) Half a metre longer than Ozone but performance probably only limited by the weight of your right foot.

http://www.tennantdesign.co.nz/index.php?page=stinger-mk-2

there is also a version with a raised cabin and a foot or so more headroom.

Yes i have heard some about it and it seems realy interesting to me.
The only problem before i decide is that i would like to se a few pics about the boat. But it seems impossible to find either pics or movieclip on the boat.

Maybe i order some study plans just to se if i can get a better view about the boat from there.

[neptunkryssare]

Nice little Ray Kendrick Australian design,

http://www.teamscarab.com.au/
http://foldingtrimaran.blogspot.com/

Yes its a very nice boat-one of them that i a little time back had serious plans to build. But i want something faster.

[neptunkryssare]

I feel more and more tempted ordering plans for the Stinger MK 2 Boat.

Still i lack a lot of information about it.

Pictures, Videos, Building reports...and more.

Does anyone know if it actually has been built.?

[jamez]

I bought study prints for this design about 18 months ago. At that stage I was told 2 had been built but they had no photos. Suggest you contact the company and talk to Anthony Stanton who is familiar with the design.

It didn't have enough interior for me but it would certainly be an exciting boat to sail. Depending on materials chosen for hulls beams and rig it needn't be exorbidant (relative to other designs of similar performance) to put together either. It conforms well to the classic Newick 2 out of 3 rule.

[neptunkryssare]

I bought study prints for this design about 18 months ago. At that stage I was told 2 had been built but they had no photos. Suggest you contact the company and talk to Anthony Stanton who is familiar with the design.


Thankyou for that info, I will contact him.

This night i also ordered study plans of that boat.
How long did it take from that you ordered the plans until you got them.?

It conforms well to the classic Newick 2 out of 3 rule.

That sounds great expect from one thing...
I don't know anything about that rule :cool:

[jamez]

He was talking about the attributes of Hi-performance, comfort/accomodation, economy. Choose any 2 ;) cause you can't get all 3.

[neptunkryssare]

Aha, i think i got the point :D

[Joe Moore]

I think given that you are worried primarily about the feeling of speed from the boats, you should perhaps not be looking for plans, but be looking to hitch a ride on some boats. Get a feeling for what they're like and get used to sailing them. If you're not that experienced a sailor you could find yourself in trouble quite quickly on some highly strung racing machine.

[Gary Baigent]

Okay Neptune, seeing as all the other has been and no hoper designers are exhibiting here, here is what you really need .... a "C Class" foiler with miserable accommodation (it will be a relief to come up on deck) - comes in either soft or hard sail rig - I'd suggest the soft one for a start - repeat, this is tongue in cheek you guys. Having said that I'd doubt you'd find a faster boat in this, or quite a bit larger, size range. The last image is main hull view.

[neptunkryssare]

Yes Joe, you are completely right that speed is a concern.
My biggest problem is that i am not a experienced boat builder, therefore i need my project to be not to complicated.

You are absolute right that i am not an very experienced sailor, but i know the basics and i think that if i just take it easy then I think i can learn to sail a not to demanding cat or tri.

And don't worry, i will have some sailings with multihulls before the long time comes when i have got enough with money to build and launch my trimaran, thank you for caring and giving me that good portion of advice :)

I have had two boats the last five years, and both of them sucks when it comes to performance, the one i have now less than the one i had before.

The last thing i want is a family boat on training-wheels even if it performs way better than all monohulls i ever will see.

I prefer a steep learning-curve in favor to that i in a short time wish i had a better craft, so i think that i am quite sure about what i want out of sailing.

Hard wind water in my face and half way between panic and relief.:D

[neptunkryssare]

Gary.
Is it your DT2.?
It looks very nice.
If it lives up to your words then it will be an awesome craft.
I would love to build that boat, and eventually even more to sail it.

Do you have any plans ready.?
Do you sell them.?

It seems as it could be a boat that i for sure will keep for life.

[Gary Baigent]

Whoops Neptune, I wasn't really being serious. However I was intending to start building this version of Demon Tricycle (

[Gary Baigent]

Sorry, didn't mean to send that (this has happened before with embarrassing consequences) .... starting again, as I was saying .... anyway I've been too busy to begin construction of Devils 3 - however, here are some main hull plans. There is also an Open 8.5 version, very similar, but no hard rig, designed before I realized Open actually meant Restricted for the local 8.5 rule - but enough said about that.

[neptunkryssare]

Well Gary, i had my doubts - because it was that a short time since you come up with your first idea of that boat. And also i was a little surprised that you offered plans before you had a working prototype..

When you have the plans ready i hope that i can buy them from you :)

[neptunkryssare]

Gary, will you please tell me more about that Restricted Open 8.5 version.?

[neptunkryssare]

I have mailed Tony Stanton about that Stinger MK2 and he answered my back that he had no pictures because these boats .quoting him "they were built in the era before everybody had a digital camera!"

I mailed him back asking for build reports, i asked how they perform and if the foils worked well on that particular boat, but he haven't answered me and And i don't think he will.

Well, i am awaiting the study plans within the post within a few days.

Does anybody know anything about the Stinger MK2.?

[neptunkryssare]

If i can't I cant get more info about Stinger MK2 i feel that what is left to me is trying to find plans for a Ply Formula 28 Tri, but i think that i will build another one after that.

I keep searching the net.

Also, the plans the that Chris had designed(?) in post nr 10 looks quite interesting.

Chris, has this boat ever been built.?

[redreuben]

Have you looked at the Kendrick boats
http://www.teamscarab.com.au/index.html

[neptunkryssare]

Yes Redreuben i have, and they look very nice, but i don,t don't think i would like to spend to much time building that much cabin space.

And i think i want a little faster boat.

I wish there was plans left of the Daemon Tricycle.

[Gary Baigent]

Peter, the Stinger is just a larger, and better, version of Demon Tricycle - although I think Malcolm placed the foils a little too far forward (obviously he was concerned about platform imbalance). Demon Tricycle was a veritable little rocket and if you go that way, I'm sure you will find the type of performance you so desire. About my "C Class" - you'll have to wait a year before the prototype comes out. And the "Open" 8.5 - check out crew.org.nz - they have a separate forum with class rules, etc.

[Cheesy]

Peter, the Stinger is just a larger, and better, version of Demon Tricycle - although I think Malcolm placed the foils a little too far forward (obviously he was concerned about platform imbalance). Demon Tricycle was a veritable little rocket and if you go that way, I'm sure you will find the type of performance you so desire. About my "C Class" - you'll have to wait a year before the prototype comes out. And the "Open" 8.5 - check out crew.org.nz - they have a separate forum with class rules, etc.

Im guessing that one of the big issues with the 8.5m rule is the minimum mass?

[jamez]

I have mailed Tony Stanton about that Stinger MK2 and he answered my back that he had no pictures because these boats .quoting him "they were built in the era before everybody had a digital camera!"

I mailed him back asking for build reports, i asked how they perform and if the foils worked well on that particular boat, but he haven't answered me and And i don't think he will.

Well, i am awaiting the study plans within the post within a few days.

Does anybody know anything about the Stinger MK2.?

While Malcolm Tennant sold hundreds of sets of plans for his GBE and Tourismo designs, many of the others are represented by a handful of plan sets sold and 1 or 2 built examples. Malcolm told me that it was not uncommon to get little feedback from builders once a project neared completion or was finished. Tony Stanton has a valid point. The Stinger dates from the mid 1980's when photo's had to be developed and mail meant just that. Back then people didn't generally write 'build reports' because other than the off-chance of getting it published in a boating magazine there was no avenue to do anything with them. Now of course every 2nd guy building a boat is blogging about it, making a lot of info available.

Its worth noting the Stinger is very much an experimental type of design, unlike the kind of well proven 'known quantity' boats like the F82R. Unless you can locate one of the original builders/sailors you probably won't be able to get the design specific information you are looking for. Formula 28's were largely built in Europe so suggest you contact martin at http://hem.bredband.net/b262106/ he may have some knowledge of the Stingers or who built them. I have attached a copy of the original design article.

Otherwise you have to rely on your own knowledge of design to figure whether a boat should perform as intended. In this instance you only have to look at the numbers to know it should be fast if built to weight. Stabilising foils, while a bit unusual when the boat was designed, have been shown to work on a bunch of other designs so there is no reason why not in this case. Otherwise I doubt very much whether you will find an existing F28 design you can build in ply.

You can of course go it alone and design one yourself or get someone to help you. The long thin hulls necessary lend themselves to tortured ply well, such as in Gary's designs. Here is another suggestion, stretch a Buccaneer 24 out to 28 feet and build it with bigger floats and without the accomodation pod - just a thought :D

[neptunkryssare]

jamez and Gary Baigent, i have to say thank you for that you have helped me to find out what should be the best boat for me.

Without your suggestions and ideas i had not understand that stinger should be exactly that boat i for quite sure will build sometime in the future.

I have done some research for which time, material costs and knowledge i need to get my project fulfilled, and facing the reality i understand that it's a little to time consuming to start with right off.

The most important to me right now is building-time.

Therefore i think that my first project should be building a trimaran out of a second hand beachcat.

I assume it should be foolish to build a tri out of a stinger mainhull and amas from a used hobie 18 or Nacra 18 .?

Then i can build real amas for the stinger while waiting for the season thereafter.

Of course i understand if doing so, i will miss the lifting foils until i have built the outriggers that truly belongs to that boat.

If you tell me the above should be a very bad idea, then i think i will open a new thread discussing adding a mainhull to a beachcat.

[jamez]

Happy to try and help. Peter, the hulls you mention are way too small to stabilise a 28 foot tri with a big rig. There have been some successful small day-sailing tri's built with 18 foot floats but they are usually in the vicinity of around 20' feet loa. And of course there is the Tremolino but a main hull of that size is really probably about the limit for components from a mid sized donor cat. Chris Ostlind has looked at donor boats a lot. Maybe he'll chime in here.

Why not buy a cheap beachcat if you want to get on the water quickly and use it as is while building the Stinger?

[neptunkryssare]

Ok, that's what i supposed.

I have one boat for now, a proud swedish neptunkryssare from 1943, and to me it's good in evreything expect the speed. but my plans is keeoing it and cruise with together with my son until i got my tri built, then i will sell my neptunkryssare and use the tri instead, perhaps i also will start to build another one and in that case the stinger.

My son and i prefer weekend cruising and a little longer than so.
So a beachcat (if not for having a side just for fun, which i don't realy have economy for) is not realy in my planes, expect if it should be invoked in a bigger project.

Therefore we have the need of a little bigger boat

And he is building his own dingy with the people in the youth association
ubb http://www.udac.net/forening/ubb/.

[neptunkryssare]

Happy to try and help. Peter, the hulls you mention are way too small to stabilise a 28 foot tri with a big rig.

What about if i have a smaller rig until i got the 'real' outriggers built.?

[jamez]

What about if i have a smaller rig until i got the 'real' outriggers built.?

Well you could. But I don't see the point. You would end up with a very slow 28 foot tri. And most of those at least have capacious interiors :) . I can totally understand the need to get on the water in the meantime, but you already have the means to do that. If you need to do multi sailing while you build perhaps you could crew for someone instead. My own experience with other or interim projects is they can really chew up your time.

[neptunkryssare]

ok, i have to decide the course for my future project.

Either i will build the stinger and let it take its time, or i build the x-molino so i can get it in water quite fast.

If i decide by my hearth it should be the stinger, but there is a chance i go the other way as well.

I better go figure......

[Gary Baigent]

Well Neptune, you could be a radical and build the Stinger main hull .... and then build two small floats WITH foils. Quite easily and quickly done building in tensioned ply; the foils are not a big deal either, either V or inverted T or Y or curved if you really want to be exotic - you're going to have to build a rudder and a main dagger, what's a couple more foils?
ps. keep the full sized rig.

[neptunkryssare]

Great idea Gary,if you not are joking with me again :p.!?
Maybe i could use the amas from a small beachcat and add the extra foils to them.?
Could they stand the extra force.?
Smaller hulls and more foils, i suppose it would gain more drag from the water, (while not foiling).?

I don't think adding extra foils is what i should use for my first project, -i think it's more secure stick with the original design or build another boat. For now i use my time to ask and learn from them that are ahead of me in experience.
I think i will try your idea when i have some more experience.

As I lack knowledge to approximate how much material needed, Jamez - did it come a material list with the study plans that you got of stinger.?

Foils and drag
-----------------
Maybe this question just affect small boats with smaller foils, maybe it's not possible at all. But as i am a beginner i think that i am in my right to ask dumb questions. :D

Is there such a thing as folding foils, in the same way as a folding propeller.?
(link to folding racing propeller).
http://www.nauticexpo.com/scripts/IDPHeader.php?s=22143&URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gori-propeller.dk%2Findex.asp%3FID%3D89&IDVisite=25087&MotCle=&RefCat=&IDProduit=128437&IDProdSource=&SourceType=Produit

My thought here is that it maybe should be possible to unfold the foils manually or in some way let the force from water do the job, in the latter they should have the ability to be locked in unfolded shape to avoid problems if the boat short time loses speed.
And/Or could it be possibly to slide up the foils above the hulls waterline while sailing in low wind or in shallow water.?

[Gary Baigent]

Peter, you can have lifting, asymmetric, angled foils, just like a normal daggerboard (but slanted of course), and they can be lifted in ultra light conditions. But they have too be very well secured when fully down. I had an earlier combination of rope loop over broad foil top to cam cleats PLUS wedges ... and still the lift was such, in large waves especially, that the wedges would suddenly fly out (they were tethered) and then slam against the float - a tremendous bang, bang, bang - which made me think the whole boat was being torn apart. Got used to it but slightly terrifying at first. You could also pin them .... but Sod's Law takes over when you want to lift them, means crawling way out there to leeward.
Actually, if you have a fast light boat, the foil area required to lift float is not very large at all, drag is minimal - also you can trim the boat in light conditions so only the leeward foil is in water .... is very fast set up like so.

[jamez]

As I lack knowledge to approximate how much material needed, Jamez - did it come a material list with the study plans that you got of stinger.?



Yes the study prints come with a materials list - although mine was for strip. I also have a materials list somewhere for a GBE cat in Double diagonal ply which is about the same skin area. Will PM you when I find it.