Stabalizing a small steel boat

[mwatts]

Someone I want to help, has a small problem with his steel boat. He's worried it's not stable enough, especially when he wants to take it out with his kids.

Here are some pictures of the boat:

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/mrwatts/P5220041.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/mrwatts/P7200011.jpg

LOA = 580 cm
BOA = 180 cm (at the bottom it's 140 cm)
Draft is approx. 20 cm.

My first suggestion was to weld on a keel. But that's not an option, because the boat is operated in shallow waters (e.g. he has to use the outboard's shallow water drive to get home).

So I thought I'dd ask here. Has anybody got any idea's to improve stability without increasing the draft of the boat?

[Ad Hoc]

Add 'fenders' full length (just like you see on RIBs)....nice foam filled ones so they do no lose buoyancy when damaged. These can be glued or rivet/bolted on. Therefore when the boat heels, she has 1) increased buoyancy and 2) a greater righting moment.

[mwatts]

Won't fenders make her plough thru the water even more than she already does?

[Ad Hoc]

mwatts

I have no idea, since i have no idea what your boat is like when underway, no video or pic showing this. Bit difficult to ascertain the performance when non given in the original post!

Just place the fender underneath the black rubber strip..or replace it with the fender.

[rwatson]

Surely the designer has done the stability calculations ?

If he hasnt had stability calcuations done, I would suggest he doesnt even go out on his own.

The easiest and cheapest ballast aid for a tippy boat of this size are four of five bags of sand in the bottom

In fact, he could get sandbags with the equivalent weight of passengers, put them all on one side to test the stability. It would be a quick way to see how 'tender' the hull is.

[mwatts]

To be honest, I expect the designer of this boat to have started pushing up the daisies a good two hundred years ago. It's a traditional dutch "vlet" and has been copied a million of times.

I think however this version has a higher L/B ratio than usual. It will go faster, but I guess the tradeoff is less stability than the beamier versions.

[rwatson]

To be honest, I expect the designer of this boat to have started pushing up the daisies a good two hundred years ago. It's a traditional dutch "vlet" and has been copied a million of times.

I think however this version has a higher L/B ratio than usual. It will go faster, but I guess the tradeoff is less stability than the beamier versions.

So, basically its *not* a traditional design, despite the similarity in lines. There are heaps of comments all over these forums and the web about the dangers of "its just a little change"

Practical experimentation with real weights is probably the easiest and cheapest way to prove stability.

[messabout]

Looks like a nicely built boat, abit odd, and it is probably not entirely hopeless. Do as Rwatson says. Put several sandbags in the BOTTOM of the boat. Move 'em around to test righting moments. secure them at the centerline of the boat and then try it with passengers. Keeping the bulk of the weight very low will be useful. The alternative solution is to give the boat a decent burial.

The boat looks like a Bolger Gypsy run amuck. The steel boat has too much angle on the sections that we might call the lower strake. Five piece boats like this can be designed to work very well but this does not appear to one of them.

[gonzo]

Nice looking boat. With that flare she should have a fair amount of reserve stability. What does the owner consider unsafe? Those boats tend to be a bit tender and then stiffer as a chine comes off the water

[nukisen]

As far as I can see this looks to become a stable boat.
You did ask for a sugestion to make it more stable without increase te draft.
Then take a look at Matt Laydens solution.
One of the smartest things I have ever seen. Usually used for sailbots. And with a lot of different functions.
http://www.microcruising.com/Sketch1.htm
As you can see on this page, the boat does have a little list at the bottom.
This list does increase the stability. Caused by the displacement increases at thae sides. The draft will even get smaller. And also works like a keel when you heel the boat at side. (specially for sailboats)
Of course you can try this option.

[nukisen]

Ahhh also this lists does move the center of gravity downwards (cog).
This will increase the stability a lot.

[mwatts]

Nukisen, you are referring to the "chine runners" in the pictures? I will forward the suggestion. Thanks.

[nukisen]

U r welcome Martin!
Yes i did refer to chine runner.
How can a simple solution make so big differents.
Remember the resistance may rice a bit.
But I am not sure because the draft will be a few millimeters lower. So the wetted surface increased by the lists you will get back at the waterline.

[yuyewuyuconan]

make another one ,become twin hull boat.

[pistnbroke]

until we see some photos of it in the water with a few sandbags on the center line and someone hanging over the side how can we tell how big the problem is ??

[PAR]

I agree with Piston and the others in that we can't tell much from a couple of pictures, none of which really give us a good idea of all the shapes, nor how she "trims out" both static and underway.

The lower portions of the hull look doryish, but it's hard to tell with the odd angles. I suspect it draws too much for it's available power.

I disagree in the bilge runners. The hull looks to have little rocker and if she sits as I suspect, she's not going to have sections immersed enough for runners to be particularly effective. Also runners are only really effective across a fairly narrow S/L range, further limiting their desirability.

[pistnbroke]

also we dont know what the propulsion power is or projected speed ...if its going to be run on the equivalent of an english canal at 4mph ( god save you brits ) or on more open water .......????

I always find it very irritating when people come on here ..ask a question and we all run around like headless chickens trying to help ...then silence no response or thanks .....

[JFdez]

I don`t suggest you to improve the stability with sand bags. It would be a non comfortable a non sure option.

Think about the possibility of welding a plate in both sides, p.e. 30 cm in width over the (entire?) length of the ship. The size and the best location of the plate on each side is easy to find from simple forces calculations. I think this is the most cheap and easiest way to solve the problem. In addition, the "ship cosmetics" will not be altered.

If you prefer I can help you with the calculations (scantlings, etc.)

Bye

[rwatson]

I don`t suggest you to improve the stability with sand bags....

That wasnt the suggestiom The sand bags were to provide a way of testing bouyancy *before* any type of permanent weight was added.

You can have sand bags to represent crew members, and other sand bags to represent permament ballast, and thereby test the result before doing any major structural additions.

Either that, or you could digitise the whole boat and calculate the numbers. Sandbags are probably a cheaper way to go.