Square-back Canoe Plans

[paulkasman]

I am looking for plans to build a small square-back canoe. Actually, I want to make a composite of a dinghy and a canoe. I thought something that would fit into the 8+ ft interior of my van.

I like the look of the Radisson Square back canoes, but I think they are too long.

I'm in Vermont and we have many small mountain lakes. They tend to be very calm. I just want a small light craft that I can use alone, or with my golden retriever.

Appreciative of any links or advice.

Is there a rule of thumb for minimally sized crafts?

Paul

[Squidly-Diddly]

It seemed to have started life as about a 17' x 40" Grumman normal canoe.

The stern transom was about 2' wide and the bow transome was about 1' wide. It was about 9-10' long. I didn't talk to the user but the word was "he uses all the time and loves it". Not sure why this particular boater felt the need to shorten the boat. Possibly for more maneuverability in the swamp?

The transoms were flat aluminum secured with pop-rivets and silver-grey caulking.

Myself, I've had some interest in a very small car toppable "scanoe/dinghy" type boat that would double as a "rocket box" car-top cargo carrier.

I'm also thinking of that magic 8' length so that it could be taken inside a standard house/apt and stood up to save space and maybe even become a partly useful broom closet or stylish set of shelves in the off-season.


Why not get some roof racks for the van? Best investment ever! Then you should be able to scare up free or nearly free canoes and dinghies year round.

I'll leave a boat up on the racks during the summer just for the extra shading. Really makes a difference! Lots of cars in the tropics have a 'double roof'.


PS-I'm also looking for svelte micro-dinghy stitch&glue type plans.

[messabout]

You have a set of wants and circumstances unique to your own situation. Stock plans, if you could find them, will try to satisfy everones needs. Thus you have a compromised boat.

There are realities, well you might call them rules, that we need to address. Rule of thumb #1; Longer is usually better. #2 everything is a compromise. #3 Establish all the parameters before drawing a boat.................
Parameter list.
What is the maximum length that is tolerable for you.?
How much do you and the Goldie weigh?
What will you use for propulsion? Are you thinking of an electric troller, (weight issue) single paddle, double paddle. (Width at sheer issue) (this helps determine width of the immersed part of the boat.) Also, is the Goldie a cool dude or does he/she get excited when you catch a fish? (stability issue)
Are you dead set against something like a garvey or punt? How much emphasis is to be given to appearance?

[alan white]

Won't be a canoe. A canoe is long and pointy at both ends. You want a small skiff or a dinghy. You might as well say you want a pair of socks, except shaped for your hands, with long toe covers.

[hoytedow]

In the early 1970's I built a small 2 hull boat which I used to tie onto the roof of my car. Later, someone built one almost identical in dimensions which they submitted to popular mechanics magazine and received a golden hammer award. This I think was in 1971 or 1972. It was 8 feet long. each hull was 2 feet wide and 1 foot high. Two cross beams held the hulls together with 2 feet of space between them. These were all fastened together with 8 3/8 x 4 carraige bolts and wing nuts. It took only a few minutes to assemble/disassemble and be on your way, whether on the water or on the road. I could go 10 miles an hour with a 5 horse Eska outboard. I would send a picture but I haven't seen any for years. Perhaps the PM article is still out there. It would be perfect for the bed of a truck.

[Chris Ostlind]

... A canoe is long and pointy at both ends.




Do exceptions to that rule count?

[paulkasman]

Wow! I love Hoytedoy's idea. It sounds like it would work great for stability and be easily dis-assembled to fit in my van. I'll try to find the PM article. Certainly if you have a pic or drawing I would love to see it. Van transport is still an open question for me. I can get a roof rack and make a bigger boat, but then it will need a regular storage space, which I do not have.

Alan is right, my description was lacking. I had in mind a short version of the Radisson Square Back Canoe, which is actually a narrow boat. One of my big concerns was stability.

Thanks Messabout for helping me to weigh the tradeoffs in design. I'm light, 165 lb and Tucker is another 70 lb. Here in Vermont small kayaks are all the rage. I want something roomier and drier, and yes, something I could throw a trolling motor on down the road. It's hard to keep Tucker out of the water, so he may not end up boating with me. I won't really know until I see how he behaves.

[muddin redneck]

here is a free plan for a 15' square back canoe but could possibly be modified http://www.svensons.com/boat/?p=RowBoats/glide_easy

[cameron.d.mm]

Just thought I'd chime in to say that I recently built a boat (my first) with similar requirements / limitations in mind. You can see it here:

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/wooden-boat-building-restoration/my-little-wooden-boat-project-complete-novice-26466.html

The drawing says 9.5", but I actually built it a bit shorter.

I'm not recommending you build this boat (I'm sure there are much better "plans" out there) but I just wanted to present it as an example of a home built and designed 2 person, car-toppable boat that can take a small motor.

Good luck, I know you'll enjoy whatever you end up with. After all, you'll be out boating, won't you!

[alan white]

Do exceptions to that rule count?

Yes. A square-sterned canoe (not a canoe but a "square-sterned canoe").
But widen the square-sterned canoe until it's the width of a dinghy and it's closer to a dinghy than a canoe.
Okay, you could keep it narrow, say 28", and limit the occupancy to one (maybe a small dog too), and cut 2 ft of the stern of a ten footer and yes, you have a very small square-sterned canoe.
The stern would allow propulsion by an electric troller.
I think in Sweden gloves are called "hand skor", or "hand shoes" too.

A man with a dog of any size in a square-sterned Wee Lassie would be comical. This boat, at 8 ft. needs enough beam to completely disguise its canoe-ness. What's left of the canoe?

[lewisboats]

in order to fit into your van...with or without the back doors open? if they are closed you have a problem. Getting a 70 lb retriever and yourself 180?lbs plus the weight of the boat iself into a canoe shape that is 8 ft long...not really happenin'. Now if you want to go pram...then that is eminently doable, same with a pointy skiff of the fat proportion persuasion . I was just reading my recent acquisition of "Building the Skiff Cabin Boy" by Kuhlig and that is a nice little 7' 6" x 3' 10" (note it is more than half as wide as long) lapstrake skiff by Atkin that might do for you. There are others out there similar. You essentially need to make a big enough hole in the water to support you and your dog and still have enough left over to have some freeboard for safety. The best way to do this when the length is constrained is by adding width. The pram is essentially a skiff with the nose cut off. Slice 4 ft off of a 12 ft skiff and you have an eight foot pram. When properly shaped it can carry about the same as that 12 ft skiff. Another way is to make it pointy but very fat...this will give you 75-85% of that 12 ft skiff in a shorter space but is a compromise in that it is harder to push through the water and slower than the longer boat...as is the pram. Long and narrow gives you speed but short and fat allows carrying capacity for little length but is slow. It all works out to how much water the boat can replace when loaded...You will need to displace about 6 cubic feet of fresh water to support yourself, the dog and the boat. Plan on building a boat that can handle that amount of weight...about 375 lbs and you should be fine.

Steve

[hoytedow]

Just a quick sketch. You should be able to work out the details on your own. Put stress on achieving structural integrity. Use lots of screws(every 5 inches) and resorcinol glue. You can make it a couple of feet longer. These are just the dimensions I used back in the old days. I know this isn't exactly what you were looking for, but it is a starting point, no?:)

[pistnbroke]

I made a flat back canoe recently ...took 4 sheets of small profile galvanised tin left over from the cladding of my shed (9ft x3 ft each steet ) and screwed them together with tech screws ....then made my wooden transom and screwed it 15ft from one end bending the tin around ....then pulled the front together for the bow .....coated the inside with cooking oil and I had a mould for my fibreglass canoe.....works great with 5 hp briggs and stratton air cooled outboard....

Mistakes
the fibre glass cost a fortune ..I should have done it in plywood and cover with cloth and glass ..lighter and cheaper ..

I could fit two bulkheads at the 7ft 6 point about 1/2 inch apart and glass them in ...cut the boat in two....bolt it together for use and fit one inside the other for transport ...

Just an idea ...

or is this what you want ...

[hoytedow]

pistnbroke-You reminded me of what my friend did back in 1971. He was the inspiration for the boat I sketched above. He took 2 pieces of corrugated metal roofing, doubled them over and screwed a short piece of 2x4 into each end. He joined the 2 resulting hulls together with cross beams. He slapped caulking into the hull ends, threw on a small motor and off he went. It fell apart when our friend stepped on the cross beam, breaking it which caused the boat to fold upon itself like an open faced sandwich. It was very funny. He had a good time upon the river after he corrected that design flaw and I built mine the following weekend.

[pistnbroke]

yes ,,,,err but mine was a success if it could have been cheaper and lighter ......It was inspied by the australian aborigonies who took the bark off a tree and used it as a canoe

[hoytedow]

My friend's boat was so sharp you literally needed bandaids, since the metal edges were exposed. No one ever got hurt, though. HAHA. He used sheet metal in lieu of birchbark, which is what his Chickasaw ancestors used. It worked great, but it was unsightly. His later efforts were vast improvements.

[messabout]

While we speculate here, we may as well mention the Puddle Duck Racer. It is the easiest boat build one could imagine, It is cheap to build, it will tolerate the Goldie even if he is excited. It'll also hold a bunch of cargo. the PDR is intended to be a sail boat but it will work alright with modest troller or small outboard. It is less than 8 feet long and it will stand up in your garage and occupy minimum space. Google PDR

[hoytedow]

Hey, messabout, I have a doctor friend who lost a friend there at Lake Parker when his sailboat mast hit a powerline there at the boat ramp. It is a nice lake, though.

[paulkasman]

So many great ideas, and as I research them I am coming across so many beautiful small boats. I love the idea of a two piece boat that bolts together and stores one piece inside the other. I'm surprised you don't see that more often.

The PDR is a great little craft, but I think I want to aim for something with more attractive lines. I'm a decent woodworker. So, I probably don't need to go really ultra simple. But, it sure looks like it would be the right size and plenty stable.

Thanks guys.

Paul

[messabout]

Hoytedow; The incident to which you refer was tragic. The young fellow who lost his life was a high school student. He was a really neat kid who was respected and admired by his peers, including my daughter, and the people who knew him. At that time there were three ramps that accessed the lake. The south ramp, intended for power boaters, I suppose, had high tension lines running across the ramp at about 20 more or less feet in elevation. The kids were to launch their Hobie there. A rigged Hobie on a trailer is more than 20 feet in height. That ramp has been destroyed and there are now several others that have no such danger overhead. I do not recall whether the tort lawyers became involved. It made no difference to the neat, now dead, kid.

Perhaps we have hijacked this thread but it is for a very good cause, worthy of notice. I really like and generally respect the forum members even though I sometimes disagree. I beseech you one and all to be very wary of the hazards of launching ramps. You can be killed there in spite of your innocence.

In a comical version of absence of attention, I pulled my sailboat out of the north ramp of lake Parker with mast still in stepped position. Considerate person that I am, I continued to drive out of the way of another person who wished to use the ramp. The problem was that an oak tree, 50 yards away, was waiting in stealthy silence. The oak tree won and my mast lost the encounter. The oak tree was not equipped with deadly electricity and I survived, albeit embarassed,. I messed up a perfectly elegant mast step. Even veteran sailors can screw up. Please all you sailors out there keep your attention focussed on reality.

[hoytedow]

The doctor's name is Deen King, and he is a very nice person. Your daughter probably knows him.

[Squidly-Diddly]

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/boa/1379960752.html



8 ft pram river drifter - $1000 (monterey )

Date: 2009-09-17, 7:18PM PDT
Reply to: sale-dbn4s-1379960752@craigslist.org (sale-dbn4s-1379960752@craigslist.org?subject=8%20ft%20pram%20river%20drifter%20-%20%241000%20%28monterey%20%29&body=%0A%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fsfbay.craigslist.org%2Fpen%2Fboa%2F1379960752.html%0A) [Errors when replying to ads? (http://www.craigslist.org/about/help/replying_to_posts)]

2007 aluminum pram 8 ft long ,about 46 in wide ,16 in deep,coat it on bottom / anti skid inside/ anchor holds front and rear . rod holder built in custom transom no oars .or motor just the boat 1000.00 or best


Location: monterey
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
I've seen them paddled with one big single canoe paddle.
http://images.craigslist.org/3n13k63l75T45Q15Pd99ha7b8b54abc731141.jpg http://images.craigslist.org/3na3m43pa5O15Pa5R699hb37fabfaea6c17ae.jpg


PostingID: 1379960752