Patience

[peter radclyffe]

<a href="http://s791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/?action=view&current=img028.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img028.jpg" border="0" alt="radclyffe pat stern launch"></a>
here is a yacht we restored, 1931, teak on rock elm, Camper & Nicholson, 45 tons

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img028.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img092.jpg
some restoration work

[lewisboats]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img028.jpg

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img092.jpg

[lewisboats]

put ??? around the address to the picture to have it show up here

[peter radclyffe]

thanks lewis, can you teach me how to use delftship or freeship, pete

[lewisboats]

answer questions...sure!...teach? Hmmm don't know if I am qualified to do that. One thing you have to remember...as numerous folks will tell you...the software simply draws what you put in...WHATEVER you put in. And as in computers... Garbage in:Garbage out. You have to know something of what you are doing in order to get a decent something out. As a sampler...you must balance the boat...weight wise, sail vs lateral resistance wise, displacement wise, performance wise, comfort wise, and a half dozen different other wizes... and still you might come up with a pig. Many of the professionals here would tell you that I know nothing of what I am doing either...well...I say that I am progressing in the lifelong process of learning and things are getting progressively better as I age and learn. I don't profess to be anything more than a simple man who enjoys boats and would like to contribute to the overall pool of designs. That a few might not meet the approval of certain folks doesn't mean that there isn't some small merit in them...just that they should be used with the requisite caution appropriate to all things nautical. As I progress and learn I am sure I will be in a better position to pass on some of that info that experience gives to me. Unfortunately I do not have the option of building all that I might design and am forced to rely on others who might want to take a chance on my lines. So far a few have taken me up and seemed to have had some considerable success.
Back to Freeship...I must confess...I usually use Carene 2008 to spec out the basic dimensions and then import into freeship and tweak it beyond recognition. That is why virtually all my designs have some kind of chine and are mostly develop-able...Carene 2008 is specifically programmed to come up with develop-able surfaces. Hulls produces a similar output and is still available whereas Carene 2008 is hard to find but still out there. I recently came across it but don't remember where. Using Freeship after importing is simply a matter of practice and trial and error. Always save the original and work with copies.

To change to Feet and inches: import the design and if in metric(99.9%) convert to imperial under Project/Project settings. Then go to Transform and Scale to .3042 for all dimensions. This will convert your meters #s to feet #s directly...ie: 1m imported = 1ft (I tend to think in units/decimals rather than feet and meters so when using Carene I simply think in whatever unit I want. When I import in to Freeship then I convert into feet/decimals... a calculator helps with the rest). I think Hulls output is in feet/inches. If you wish to convert meters to feet and keep the relationship then don't do anything other than change to Imperial. This will convert 1 m to 3.25 or so ft...what ever the conversion is to the 4th decimal.

Anyhoo...after importing then the real work begins. I play with the points to get exactly what I want then use the right click menu to show if what I want is usable. This is available under Mode/Developablity check (this is how it is spelled...swear to whatever!). All green except for the joints between panels means good to go. Any red areas are not easily developable and can benefit from some massaging.

Round hulls are those with the Creases changed to off...simplistic but kinda accurate. A chined hull seems to transform magically in to a reasonable round hull when the crease is changed at the chine. the rest is a matter of shaping...sometimes a lot of shaping. You can also set a linesplan or picture as a background and emulate it...the program is very flexible and therein is the danger...you can draw something that looks nice and has not much actual practicality or merit as an actual boat...Like those others say...you have to have some knowledge of what you are doing in order to actually apply the tool: Freeship/Delftship: to the problem of your design.

CAVEAT: these statements are not only for the poster of the question but to those who also read it. I know nothing of the knowledge of the reader therefore...If it applies... take it to heart...if it doesn't...disregard and take no offense. I included more info than what Peter might need in the statements...there is some experience with boats there so I am sure he will sift out what he needs. Others will need to sift out what might be of use to them in this and any following posts and disregard anything not applicable to their situation as needed. I hope those with more knowledge will chime in without rancor or invective to add to or even counter with better knowledge anything that I or others might post to this thread in the future.

What else would you like to know...I'll answer if I am able.

Steve

PS: is there anyone out there who could teach this old dog how to get my simple Freeship outputs to some of those almost lifelike renders I would be eternally grateful.

PPS: I have yet to wrap my pea brain around Rhino or other decent 3D CAD software...not from lack of trying...so a shortcut would be nice.

[peter radclyffe]

thanks lewis, is there a free program i can start with

[M-Sasha]

Apex (Richard) had a good tutorial on Freeship+ here:

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/design-software/step-step-design-your-boat-27900.html

there are links to download the software too.

Sasha


nice restoration!

[lewisboats]

Sorry...no program is going to teach you how and more important WHY boats are designed the way they are. My Library consists of well over 100 books... about 30 are devoted to design solely and the rest cover building methods and accessories like sail design and construction, rigging and rope work. My suggestion is to pick a design genre, construction method and rig style and then study what is out there as far as it goes. Then pick another genre and start all over again. I like traditional stuff...gaff, lug and sprit. The Modern stuff has been covered ad nauseam with the Bermuda and Bermuda sloop rig. FG and cored...wood and foam...both leave me cold so I gravitate towards wood and wood byproduct construction...mostly plywood in it various forms. I believe in epoxy coated PW and most of what I do is plywood and epoxy in design and execution. I am not adverse to a traditional wood hull and am willing to think along those lines but a bit of liquid plastic is not something I am against.

PS: Steve is the moniker I go by...Lewis reminds me too much of my military days

[peter radclyffe]

thank you lewis, ive designed over 60 boats,cutters, ketches, schooners , trawlers, smacks, gozzo, coble,falmouth quay punt , colin archer, pilot cutters, coasters, i want to know how to put the lines on a screen

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img024.jpg
heres a 26ft mfv/yacht hull i designed & built of larch on oak , featured in designs for boatbuilding, iain oughtred 1990, based on the scots & border yachts, inchcape, watsons, spey class

[peter radclyffe]

sasha thanks, but the program doesnt seem to work for me

[nukisen]

Well Peter!
I am really a newbe. But as all ships and boats almost are valculated with a coordinate system, Free ship is using it as well.
You can mark the grabpoint and then it will appear a box for input in transverse, longitudinal and hight. Mark a dot and and make the input coordinates and the grab will move to this point location.

[nukisen]

When you have come that far you can click the grabpoint and check the box for corner. The lines of edge you can switch between normal or crease edge.

This is the ground of drawing in freeship. After you have learned the program you will be able to draw what ever you want.

[nukisen]

Of course you should be able to draw your hulls in freeship. But sometimes it is tricky for newbes as me. but I have alredy drawn a boat with this program.
And built it. But remember I am a newbe with both freeship and with designing of boats. 3000-12000 tonnage ships I am more familiar with because I do work with produktion of this.

[peter radclyffe]

nukisen hi, thanks, im learning

[apex1]

nukisen hi, thanks, im learning

Hello Peter,

especially for you, with your knowledge, such a program can be a real help. Give Freeship+ a try. Sasha posted the link already. You can go right through to the last page and the .pdf files most is told in them!

Regards
Richard

[peter radclyffe]

God Bless You Richard

[apex1]

God Bless You Richard

Thats too much.
You´re always welcome! That was a fun for me to do that little tutorial and it was halfways meant as a joke, but some found it helpful. Anyway, I hope you enjoy.

Regards
Richard

[nukisen]

Peter!
I am convinced that the tool inside freship takes you to a higher level. And also I am sure that you are able to learn a lot of this program as you already are familiar with a lot of calculation and formulas.

[lewisboats]

thank you lewis, ive designed over 60 boats,cutters, ketches, schooners , trawlers, smacks, gozzo, coble,falmouth quay punt , colin archer, pilot cutters, coasters, i want to know how to put the lines on a screen

My apologies...I didn't know you were an NA. You should try the Yahoo group for Freeship here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Freeship_HTandT_Group/?yguid=66788418

here is a link with some tutorials on it
http://www.nessmuking.com/articles/notus-racing-and-cruising-canoe-an-exercise-in-using-freeship/

[peter radclyffe]

thanks Steve, sorry i didnt read your post clearly,

[peter radclyffe]

Steve, i am not an n/a

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img166.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img109.jpg

[apex1]

Hmm, does´nt look much like a Freeship linesplan. But nice though!

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img131.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

thats more like it Richard,

[peter radclyffe]

Patience, A shipwright yesterday, Peter Radclyffe, copyright 2009 The yacht had been converted into a ketch in the sixties
stainless steel honeymoon years, just before they all got into bed with fibreglass, which along with aluminium have to be some of the most ugly & dangerous post war products, but I’m bound to be distressed by these things as my modus operandi is beauty & strength rather than speed & ugly design , all this junk hardware had to be replaced with new bronze hull, deck& mast fittings.

[peter radclyffe]

After supervising the masting & rigging , & modifying 80% of the rigging fittings on a 1930’s, 30 metre De Fries Lentsch steel schooner built of lomoor iron , I started building another tender for the big class but I let that go when the C&N came in, it was just too exhausting doing the work of 2 or 3 men, costing all boats, chief boatbuilder & shipwright, foreman yacht joiner, masts & spars, rigger, designing, surveying, woman & man management, referee, peacemaker, for 3 big vintage yachts, on top of being in charge of up to 65 people on the big class, I had to teach 35 people on Patience , the core team were 6 Polish joiners, I didn’t know what their trades were, because when I asked them they said they’d done it all, planking, framing, centreline structure, caulking, interior joinery, spars, tanks, blah-blah, so I gave them some tests, I asked them to pattern the fore deadwood & a plank, I could see straight away they were lying to me because they were afraid of losing their jobs ,but no matter, they were hard workers & over 4 years I taught them how to be shipwrights, none spoke Italian & only one spoke a little English, they knew no marine vocabulary in Italian or English, 2 spoke german which I continued to learn , I bought a polish dictionary & translated tools, fastenings, parts of the boat, etc& put up these lists in Polish, Italian & English around the boats , the dart board & the vodka barrel. the latter fell under Yanns control, it didn’t matter to me if they were half cut till half ten some mornings, if that was part of the equation of immaculate joinery, so be it, on top of the big class my work load doubled, one headache was joiner Yann on one end of the tender & a fairer with applied filler on the other end, I had to separate them before they punched each other out, also Mr Lacksadaisical on the tender figured his working week started on Friday night when he went snowboarding, another cute clown, there’s one on every crowded scaffolding corner, shooting the breeze what wiv der fag butts an all.

[peter radclyffe]

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy195/helpME7/img279.jpg