Vote: best brand of inboard propulsion engine...

[B33RND]

Dear all,

Please vote which engine you consider as the best propulsion engine in the 130 to 180 kW range (for a 50 tons displacement boat).

Thanks in advance,

Berend

[PAR]

A few all girl basketball teams and lots of lemon meringue pie.

[Guest62110524]

Cummins by far
I even heard of a 6bt the other day. done 15000 commercial hrs without head lift off and these are bored in the block engines
Why are Cummins so good? because they do not over rate the engine.
The backup is wonderful
at bottom of pile yanmar
half way down the hand grenade rated volvos:)\Par you have sleep prob, and when you are up late, you drink my boy, still, there ya go , 4pm to 6pm is wine o, clock for me, off pc by 1800 at the very latest

[Fanie]

I was just going to say wait until Frosty gets here :D

[B33RND]

I was just going to say wait until Frosty gets here :D

But what's your vote?

[wardd]

MAN M9V40/46

when you really need to catch that convey

[Fanie]

If you are not in too much of a hurry I may introduce you to another motor. I don't know what the name is yet but I will in a while.

[scotch&water]

5.9 cmmins 12 valve mechanical pump. any word on the 4 cyl. cummins 250 HP

[scotch&water]

5.9 cummins 12 valve mechanical pump. any word on the 4 cyl. cummins 250 HP

[apex1]

\Par you have sleep prob, and when you are up late, you drink my boy, still, there ya go , 4pm to 6pm is wine o, clock for me, off pc by 1800 at the very latest

There are others my love.............not only yours favourite.
And wine o clock seems to be YOUR main time!?

[KnottyBuoyz]

Nanni?
Isuzu?

What others are there?

[WestVanHan]

I'd say Cummins,seen one with 12000 hours unopened.

Injection pump rebuild kits are $70.
Holset turbo rebuild kits about $130
Full engine rebuild kits with all parts are under $800 US.

[B33RND]

Off course other brands are available out there, but for the purpose of this poll please choose one or more of these 5 engines.

Thanks, Berend

[B33RND]

But are there Cummins propulsion engines in the 130 to 180 kW range? And are Cummins and Iveco the same?

Berend

[FAST FRED]

consider as the best propulsion engine

Please define "BEST"

low price, cheap repairs , long service life , light weight , ez to get parts , ez to get used . quiet , least vibration , PTO on engine , get home ability ?

Many of these work against each other , usually a fly weight has little endurance, and a Gardner would sink many boats.

Electric injection?, bring a pile of electric controllers.Turboed? Don't run at slow speeds except docking.

The other question is service life 24/7/365 or brown water ,day boat.

The CHOICE of engine requires the projected service to be considered , there is only a "best" for a particular service , no "Best of All".

The thickness of your wallet also needs consideration , with a thin wallet I prefer used truck engines , marinized , at 1/5 to 1/10 the cost of new "marine". The Detroit ser 50 or 60 is not on your list but very suitable for 24/7/365. For only 10,000 hrs the Intl DT 466 would be a really reasonable choice.

$30K vs $5K , could make a "best " difference.

FF

[B33RND]

I mean with BEST, just what would be YOUR PERSONAL CHOICE, taken your personal considerations into account.

I am anyway searching for a reliable and economical engine for medium heavy duties (complying to prevailing emission requirements), preferable one of the 5 listed engine's.

Other specifications doesn't matter to much.

Berend

[Raggi_Thor]

Old type SABB :)

[RHP]

Berend, you might get better feedback posting the same question on a fishing boat forum where the target audience work with their boats on a daily basis and their performance and costs are better monitored.

[Raggi_Thor]

Good point! Our old Volvo Penta works about 40 hours per year..

[Raggi_Thor]

I just checked some local builders of fishing boats, they deliver Yanmar, Cummins and Nogva (Deere) around 500HP..

[Raggi_Thor]

If you look at sites simmilar to
www.skipsrevyen.no
in your area you will see what machinery most new boats will have.

Last weekend I was out fishing in an old boat with a brand new small Yanmar. I noticed it was very quiet and smooth compared to our old Volvo, but you need more statistics than that :)

[Marco1]

I voted John D. but I prefer this one much better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nbJsvfyR4Y&feature=related

[brian eiland]

How about these engines?

http://www.steyr-motors.com/products/products.htm

I am a great believer in the 6 cyl in-line configuration for all 4 cycle internal combustion engines. It is the most inherently balanced configuration requiring the least counterweighting in the crankshaft.


...and then their 'hybrid model' (http://www.steyr-motors.com/news/news.htm)

[GAZZABO]

I heard a JP2 Lister ran 24/7 for 17yrs 4 months as gen in Africa. Dry sump, 2 oil tanks for oil changes and thermo-syphon cooling into a 2000l tank. Now thats what I call a motor!

[sabahcat]

Cummins

Dont know much about diesels, but I got 2 cummins for my build so they must be the best.

[sabahcat]

But are there Cummins propulsion engines in the 130 to 180 kW range?

Yes

http://www.cmdmarine.com/engines/commercial/inboards/index.html

http://www.cmdmarine.com/engines/rec/inboards/index.html

[brian eiland]

I heard a JP2 Lister ran 24/7 for 17yrs 4 months as gen in Africa. Dry sump, 2 oil tanks for oil changes and thermo-syphon cooling into a 2000l tank. Now thats what I call a motor!

Starting up an old JP2 Lister:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5deIvEbA4A

Note the size of that flywheel, and compression release 'device' used to be able to hand crank it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYf1f87mPN4

[brian eiland]

How Stuff Works...diesel engine origins

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YerhaMTdlsA

[brian eiland]

Look how much smoother this 3 cyl engine is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5k8QU7hrFI

and this 5 cyl:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY2CVmPAZek

and a 6 cyl:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukMjh1yHRk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3MuScGuUhI

and a 8 cyl:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoyD8NqMJ8g

[Fanie]

We had a one cylinder lister water pump on the farm. If the thing back fired your arm was half off for a week.

Good motors though. Frosty would have done better with lister than with yanmar :D

Here's a motor with a bit of grunt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1E_OBPpEVs

Should keep any boat captain awake ;)
I especially like the throttle response.

[Boston]

I cant really honestly vote
only thing I have much experience with is that old evinrude I got for free as a kid and beat into submission ( made work )
I seem to remember it being a 100 and it ran forever
but I also took it apart and put it together about a hundred times until finally I just got a rebuild kit and went for it
thing never did actually died on me other than once and that was out in the middle of the bay
perfect eh
early on in its career though
before the first tear down
mater of fact I think I ripped into it the very next day

I used it on a number of small boats for a solid ten years growing up
would not say it was the best or worst
but it was the one I had and I could always make it run

cheers
B

[BTPost]

The best engine wasn't even listed... What's wrong with Kitty CAT Yellow?

[powerabout]

I think the little CAT's are repainted Perkins

[BTPost]

By "little" you must mean those smaller than 100 Hp....

[powerabout]

By "little" you must mean those smaller than 100 Hp....
I think the perkins range goes higher than that once you add turbo aftercooler versions..
before Cat bought Perkins they were the largest customer.

I agree its a poor list of engines if your talking under 160kw

[Guest62110524]

cummins, which sell more engines into boats that any other
i just put a d6 volvo into a boat, outdrive, you can not get your fingures between transom and engine
the puter needs professional programming, it is so electronic that at see would scare the bejeesus out of me

[powerabout]

cummins, which sell more engines into boats that any other
i just put a d6 volvo into a boat, outdrive, you can not get your fingures between transom and engine
the puter needs professional programming, it is so electronic that at see would scare the bejeesus out of me
no choice any more whoosh
either rebuild an old engine ( which you cant import) or dont go boating in Europe and many other countries OR
use engine over 3000kw as they are still exempt ( I think)

You need an ipac a laptop and the internet to fix a Volvo these days

[Landlubber]

...I'm with Fast Fred...horses for courses mate, define the use, speed and hours to be run before you can expect answers that are meaningful.

Apex, for instance (and myself) are of the old school mid speed engines, but again, depends on what they are to be used for......

[Guest62110524]

But are there Cummins propulsion engines in the 130 to 180 kW range? And are Cummins and Iveco the same?

Berend

no Cummins are not IVECO IVECO are trucks Cummins power most of the worlds truck outside of Europe
Cummins start at around 8o shp BUT the 4 is a mech engine not tier two
i have fitted many, I heard of a b doing 15000 commercial with not even a top overhaul
i have just fitted a Volvo I hate the bloody things, bored in the block, so much electronics you can not hook up without a sci fi guy to programme the computer
and guess what stamped on the engine--useful life 10000
and guess what, you buy it, you can not finish the boat within 2 years and whoops you have no warranty

[powerabout]

Does anyone know if anybody still makes a medium speed engine that is tier II compliant?
of any shp?

[powerabout]

no Cummins are not IVECO IVECO are trucks Cummins power most of the worlds truck outside of Europe
Cummins start at around 8o shp BUT the 4 is a mech engine not tier two
i have fitted many, I heard of a b doing 15000 commercial with not even a top overhaul
i have just fitted a Volvo I hate the bloody things, bored in the block, so much electronics you can not hook up without a sci fi guy to programme the computer
and guess what stamped on the engine--useful life 10000
and guess what, you buy it, you can not finish the boat within 2 years and whoops you have no warranty
Having been a service dealer for the green death...
just think of the money you will make from them over their life....

[Guest62110524]

Does anyone know if anybody still makes a medium speed engine that is tier II compliant?

shp?
vetus deutz, this is the engine for our new boat 114 shp over 4 litre , wet liners cheap as chips, that bloody Volvo above was 60k with Outdrive, NZ dollars

[FAST FRED]

Iveco (Fiat)still had a compliant MECHANICAL engine when I was looking in the 120 -140 hp range. 6 cyl turbo or not.

US compliant , no idea about Euro ,

[Boston]

I wonder how compliant the engine out of my truck is in Alaskan waters

international diesel 7.3 liter
normally carburated
~170 hp ~380ft/lbs
gets great millage
smokes like a bitch if you start it on a cold winter day

[BTPost]

Alaska doesn't have any Laws about Marine Engines aboard vessels...

[powerabout]

Alaska doesn't have any Laws about Marine Engines aboard vessels...
That would be great news for the Cruise Ship industry...but they get hammered with rules.

[GAZZABO]

Dont know all you guys but I have just bought an old (1958 ) fihing boat from BLuff the bottom of NZ and a few weeks ago motored it upo to Whangarei 1000nm. 6.65lt/hr at 5.89kts not a hiccup! smooth runniig at 1500rpm and i suppose you all want to know what the 1985 motor was?

ISUZU 6BD1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Complete new head $nz665 Short block $nz 4500 and Im a LISTERMAN!

[BTPost]

The US EPA has the LAWS that the Cruise Ships get Hammered by... They are called "The Clean Air Act", and "The Clean Water Act"..... both are Federal Statutes, NOT State Statutes....

[sabahcat]

Does anyone know if anybody still makes a medium speed engine that is tier II compliant?
of any shp?

Yep
My cummins B3.3 are tier II compliant

http://www.cummins-sp.com/images/engine_product/b33.jpg
Emission Standards
• Designed to meet Tier 2 emissions requirements
http://www.cummins-sp.com/engines/industrial/b33_engine.htm

[apex1]

Yep
My cummins B3.3 are tier II compliant

MEDIUM speed was the question Sabah! Yours is a high speed engine (very high)................

[sabahcat]

MEDIUM speed was the question Sabah! Yours is a high speed engine (very high)................

Que?

cummins B3.3
2600rpm max with peak torque at 1600rpm

spins a hell of a lot slower than a yanmar 75 (nearest size hp)
3800 max with peak torque at 3000 rpm

[apex1]

Que?

cummins B3.3
2600rpm max with peak torque at 1600rpm

spins a hell of a lot slower than a yanmar 75 (nearest size hp)
3800 max with peak torque at 3000 rpm

We live in a Maritime professional world Sabah!

Slow revving marine Diesel is something around 100 - 150 rpm
Medium is around 500 - 800 rpm
all above is high speed.............

The long living range high speed Marine Diesels turn at 1800 rpm max. all above is known as "handgrenade setting" and good for the average weekend (two weekends in fact) cruisers with the average 80 hrs p.A.

Regards
Richard

[Landlubber]

...'fraid Apex is correct fellas......

[sabahcat]

We live in a Maritime professional world Sabah!

Slow revving marine Diesel is something around 100 - 150 rpm
Medium is around 500 - 800 rpm
all above is high speed.............

The long living range high speed Marine Diesels turn at 1800 rpm max. all above is known as "handgrenade setting" and good for the average weekend (two weekends in fact) cruisers with the average 80 hrs p.A.

Regards
Richard

Show me some of these diesels that spin at 100 to 800rpm and then show me how you can fit them in a boat of 50ft and especially a catamaran hull?

I always thought Gardners were about as good as it got for longevity and the last one I had anything to do with spun at 1500rpm (cruised at 1100), but could not fit in a 50ft catamaran hull

I bought the cummins because I needed small long life engines that can fit in a catamaran hull.
They were not the lightest, but they did have the best rep for longevity of an engine of that size and weight, partly I believe because of their low revs in comparison to other engines in that size.
They certainly last longer than 2 weekends and I know of many that have had about 10 years of commercial use with little issue, which, is a direct contradiction to your "Hand Grenade" claim

[apex1]

Show me some of these diesels that spin at 100 to 800rpm and then show me how you can fit them in a boat of 50ft and especially a catamaran hull?


Nonsense, such engine does not exist.

But that makes the definition not wrong!

The Gardners are just ONE of the many makes in the upper med. speed range but of course don´t fit in a catamaran of that size (and are not suitable for lightweight craft anyway.

The claim that your engine type survived for years in commercial service is a lie. Never these engines stand daily use for extended time. (and they are not designed to)

I did not say they live two weekends only, I meant they are hardly used more than that. (average is 80 hrs p.a.)

Regards
Richard

Lubs,

why are you afraid when i´m right?

[sabahcat]

Nonsense, such engine does not exist.

You said it did earlier, see

Originally Posted by apex1
Slow revving marine Diesel is something around 100 - 150 rpm

The Gardners are just ONE of the many makes in the upper med. speed range but of course don´t fit in a catamaran of that size (and are not suitable for lightweight craft anyway.

Thats why I dint get them and settled for the smaller, more suitable cummins
There was nothing else in its size (HP and torque), price and weight range that spun as slow and appeared to have as good longevity

The claim that your engine type survived for years in commercial service is a lie.
Never these engines stand daily use for extended time. (and they are not designed to)


A lie eh?

Best you tell that to the thousands of bobcat,excavator-loader, mining generators, marine generator owners out there using these engines in commercial applications giving them a continually hard life year after year after year after year

I think they would disagree with you

I did not say they live two weekends only, I meant they are hardly used more than that. (average is 80 hrs p.a.)

Who's telling lies now?

all above is known as "handgrenade setting" and good for the average weekend (two weekends in fact) cruisers with the average 80 hrs p.A.

[apex1]

You said it did earlier, see

1
Best you tell that to the thousands of bobcat,excavator-loader, mining generators, marine generator owners out there using these engines in commercial applications giving them a continually hard life year after year after year after year
I think they would disagree with you
2

Who's telling lies now?

YOU!

And you are turning nasty Mate!!!


1There is no slow turning engine that fits in your cat! that was the statement....
and it remains valid.
2of course.......
we are talking marine propulsion here, not excavators!
And in commercial marine propulsion such engine is hardly found, they still don´t survive it.


What are you trying to prove? That you are a good politician? It is not too hard to misunderstand every comment if one tries long enough.............

[TeddyDiver]

This is a high speed marine diesel in India http://www.fieldmarshalengine.com/p_marine.htm :D

[Boston]

I'd be really leery of that thing

India is not exactly known for high quality fabrication same as China

seems that If I'm staking me life on something it should have a long reputation of reliability and service as well as have readily available parts

Deere or Cummins would fit that bill well but I'm not so sure about that last

although I thought the hand crank start was kinda cute

[TeddyDiver]

I'd be really leery of that thing
It's the best quality money can buy.. thou a couple of odd features compared to more modern ones.. Model has been the same last >50yrs, 2cyl 2.4ltr 285kg 25hp..

[Boston]

they built that same model for 50 years ?

its got aluminum pistons
seems kinda risky in a diesel

[powerabout]

they built that same model for 50 years ?

its got aluminum pistons
seems kinda risky in a diesel
Show me a diesel that fits in a yacht that doesnt have aluminium pistons?

[Boston]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CBsQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.endurancepower.com%2Fmedia%2FNews_07_05.pdf&rct=j&q=john%20deere%20marine%20engines%20aluminum%20pistons%20&ei=tZddTJqnEcKB8gaYrey4DQ&usg=AFQjCNFHu-_wTUTlXC0Il3V6U-K-DBbG2g&sig2=DwdL8yToYKt_jrfD3k_VWw&cad=rja
sales of replacement parts for John Deere diesel engines. Our comprehensive coverage includes nearly ... NEW IPDSteel™ ARTICULATED PISTON RELEASED FOR MARINE AND TRUCK ENGINES

took about five seconds to find a steel piston for a marine engine mate

diesels take a beating and I was just surprised to find someone using aluminum for the pistons
seemed kinda like using an aluminum sleeve

granted I know squat about marine diesels but that bit about aluminum pistons just kinda seemed a bit off

not trying to start a fire storm mind you but I think if I was going to sea and depending on one engine I'd want one serious chunk of steal

[powerabout]

ok ok yes steel crown
I was thinking you meant a cast steal piston like some big old engines had

[mark775]

Lugger

[Landlubber]

mark, the old Lugger is no longer made using the 24 litre Komatsu engine...a great loss.

[powerabout]

maybe we should have a vote after we find if they use articulated pistons with steel crowns and or inserted steel crowns?

[apex1]

mark, the old Lugger is no longer made using the 24 litre Komatsu engine...a great loss.

I still have two of them sitting around. ...a great loss:D

But I know where to install them.

[dskira]

kelvin, Guascor

[dskira]

All the list are trucks engines.
I don't vote for trucks.

[FAST FRED]

The economic realities , so many gov air police agencies world wide , means that under 1000HP almost every engine in the world is a marinization of existing engines.

Truck , tractor and earth moving engines are great as most are Mfg by the thousands and problems will show up and be corrected.

IF you are moving a super tanker , or a box boat with 7000TEU on deck, you can get a "genuine Marine" engine.

Shaft rpm will be about 100 at cruise , so get a boat that can swing a BIG!!! propellor.

FF

[apex1]

Oh no Fred.

The MAN or MTU´s above some 500hp are real Marine engines, not truck knock offs.

No wonder they lead the market.

[dskira]

Truck , tractor and earth moving engines are great as most are Mfg by the thousands and problems will show up and be corrected.

FF

I edited you.
They are not working on the most hostile environment. Sea salt is destructive to a point not known in highway.
They have to work non stop at 80% of the power, never a truck will do that.
Big difference between a marine engine and truck engine, not only the cooling, the casting and the whole design should be done for that only purpose.
As you said, the sad part is : Economics, level to the bottom in this Wal Mart world :D
Daniel

[BigCat]

...I'm with Fast Fred...horses for courses mate, define the use, speed and hours to be run before you can expect answers that are meaningful.

Apex, for instance (and myself) are of the old school mid speed engines, but again, depends on what they are to be used for...... So true. The question is pretty clueless. As bad as 'What's the best boat?' Best for what?

Cummins, for example, produces engines rated only for a short lifetime on yachts and engines rated for a long lifetime in commercial use. Lots of manufacturers do this. In a commercial engine, or a voyaging yacht, I'd go with a derated Deere engine.

[Quatsino Boater]

Hi I am kind of looking for the same information on diesels but in the 50 to 100 hp range. I currently own a Volvo penta gas, fresh water cooled with a raw water heat exchanger. So that is all the experience I have.

I am a soon to be retired welder/ millwright so I have the ability to do my own work. Being older, 50 ish I would like a meat and potatoes diesel with little electronics. I do not like modern vehicles (trucks) that leave you stranded out in the bush because of a stupid 500 dollar sensor! Bah bring back seventies engines. Points, plugs, a crescent wrench, screw driver and a set of feeler gauges and you would away get home LOL.

Enough rant though, I would like a naturally aspirated 50 to 100 hp diesel power plant with very little or no electronics , (mechanical fuel pump and metering) like the seventies. Fuel efficient, durable, cheap parts and easily worked on. Good access to parts in North America.

most of you like the Cummins, is this you best pic for my requirements as well? Thanks :D

[scotch&water]

THe engine you are looking for is the 3.9 Cummins hp 100 t0 150 old mech. pump lots of them out ther rebuild and new, is 4 cyl from the older 12 valve 5.9 so lots of parts.

[michael pierzga]

So true. The question is pretty clueless. As bad as 'What's the best boat?' Best for what?

Cummins, for example, produces engines rated only for a short lifetime on yachts and engines rated for a long lifetime in commercial use. Lots of manufacturers do this. In a commercial engine, or a voyaging yacht, I'd go with a derated Deere engine.

Huh ????? Ive got a Cummins diesel with 10,000 hours of seawater,hard marine use. . Indestructible. Marine diesel engines suffer from poor ownership...not poor design.

[mark775]

He's saying they make a sport version, Michael, which extracts too much HP. Yes, Cummins are good engines. I don't want to get into this too much without reading all the posts but JD doesn't yet have the infrastructure to be a good alternative, IMO. I had a friend that bought one from Cascade, in Seattle. He then said he needed a front pulley group for a hydraulic pump or washdown, and they said "Huh?" That would never happen with Cat, Volvo, Cummins, etc.. It's already been done with them, with a part number and a location of the nearest unit - ("It'll be at your boat on Monday")

[michael pierzga]

Whats interesting is that the original poster didn't list Cat.....MTU or Cummins... all quality marine grade engines.

As for John Deer, people always speak highly of the engines. Im not
familiar with the marinization of John Deer. When talking service, its almost always the components like heat exchangers, exhaust and pumps on any engine that needs the most service per hour run .

[Pirate68]

Cheap parts
easy fitting
basic design
great sound

[SeaJay]

Quatsino - take a look at the Beta engines (Kubotas). The 75 is naturally aspirated and the 90 used to be but I think they had to add a turbo to meet air quality issues and it is now 105.

http://www.betamarinenc.com/bv3300.htm

[FAST FRED]

For folks that can not see that much difference between brand A and brand B diesel, I suggest you go to the parts source and price common items.

Water pump, cylinder head , re build kit.

Some will be 500% more than others.

FF

[SPARK1]

I see that John Deere is winning the pole. Which JD engine and why?
I presume it will be 6068 but which version?

[FAST FRED]

Many folks like Deere because the engines can be obtained at the JD farm store , instead of the "JD marine folks" at very good prices.

At least 2x a year the farm folks will offer factory warenteed rebuilt , with NO core required !!!


This is a fantastic deal .

Keel cooled , dry stack requires no "marine" conversion , just a used TD to be underway at 1/3 the cost of the"marine" guys.

Aftermarket wet exhaust manifolds are avialable if needed for a yachtty wet exhaust.

FF

[Dean Smith]

can you add Cummins to this poll, By far the biggest independent eng manufacturer and by the way you left out Cat MWM Man and a whole raft of real engines that are not hand grenade rated:)

[Dean Smith]

Many folks like Deere because the engines can be obtained at the JD farm store , instead of the "JD marine folks" at very good prices.

At least 2x a year the farm folks will offer factory warenteed rebuilt , with NO core required !!!


This is a fantastic deal .

Keel cooled , dry stack requires no "marine" conversion , just a used TD to be underway at 1/3 the cost of the"marine" guys.

Aftermarket wet exhaust manifolds are avialable if needed for a yachtty wet exhaust.

FF
yes I like Deere too, but their install dwgs are woeful and they have tractor eng mt positions low on bloc which lifts the engine so high makes it a bastard to fit under e/r sole

[whitepointer23]

have a look at gardner, parts are still available, no make of engine can match them for quality and fuel economy. they were so good they put themselves out of business. the only parts ever required are filters. a trawler i used to go out on ran a 6 cyl gardner for 48 years before it was rebuilt. 60,000 hours plus is not uncommon.

[Dean Smith]

have a look at gardner, parts are still available, no make of engine can match them for quality and fuel economy. they were so good they put themselves out of business. the only parts ever required are filters. a trawler i used to go out on ran a 6 cyl gardner for 48 years before it was rebuilt. 60,000 hours plus is not uncommon.

My dear Boy
I was working on Gardeners before you were a gleam in your Dads eye
they are Passe. old hat , power to weight abysmal
So long Lister, Lister Blackstone, Kelvin, Ruston, Gleniffer, all great in their day
modern day engines are better, stronger and more efficient

[bernd1972]

I would suggest Perkins which is the same as the small Cats.

[Icebreaker]

Because the poll limited the order of preference _ I would have chosen John Deere reluctantly.
Otherwise # Gardenor
# Isuzu
NON turbos good output at around -2,000 RPM

[Dean Smith]

Because the poll limited the order of preference _ I would have chosen John Deere reluctantly.
Otherwise # Gardenor
# Isuzu
NON turbos good output at around -2,000 RPM

have you ever seen a Gardiner? I very much doubt it

[Icebreaker]

have you ever seen a Gardiner? I very much doubt it
Dean Smith,
It is a pity that someone with your standing and experience finds its necessary to use Boat Design to make such personal comments of an inflammatory nature.
In fact I helped install a 6LXB from a Hong Kong Bus into a displacement power boat , I also took a 4LB to west Africa
Both these Gardiner engines were naturally aspirated.

[bernd1972]

The namr of that brabd is Gardner and they no longer build marine engines.

[whitepointer23]

My dear Boy
I was working on Gardeners before you were a gleam in your Dads eye
they are Passe. old hat , power to weight abysmal
So long Lister, Lister Blackstone, Kelvin, Ruston, Gleniffer, all great in their day
modern day engines are better, stronger and more efficient

before you dribble too much , read the original post, its for a 50 ton displacement boat ,i would not have thought power to weight would have been an issue. there are thousands of gardner owners worldwide that will disagree with you that they are a thing of the past. cummins are cheap crap. if i couldn't have a gardner i would have cat or john deere.

[Icebreaker]

This website has some interesting information on the subject of Gardners :-http://www.gardnermarine.com/

[Dean Smith]

Dean Smith,
It is a pity that someone with your standing and experience finds its necessary to use Boat Design to make such personal comments of an inflammatory nature.
In fact I helped install a 6LXB from a Hong Kong Bus into a displacement power boat , I also took a 4LB to west Africa
Both these Gardiner engines were naturally aspirated.

I am very sorry to offend
You see this Gardner engine has become a legend, passed on from father to son:) be happy mate
I was an engineer in a company that had a raft of them on small car ferries
Modern engines are lighter by far, it does not mean they are more unreliable, in fact quite the reverse and quality engines such as Merc, cat, man, scania cummins to name a few will do as many or more hours and will rebuild when needed at a fraction of cost
One ship a trawler lost her Lister Blackstone was replaced by a 12 vee GM, she roiled and sank mid Tasman
her name Loch lLein
http://www.fleetwood-fishing-industry.co.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=1762 my Friend a NZ NA did the inquiry into sinking

[powerabout]

If you want to talk Gardner, then you should also talk about the same era engines of the above manufacturers which were also about the same.
855 cummins 210hp versus 851 Gardner at 170hp

[Dean Smith]

If you want to talk Gardner, then you should also talk about the same era engines of the above manufacturers which were also about the same.
855 cummins 210hp versus 851 Gardner at 170hp

the 855m could rate up to 380
When I was with Cummins Eng in Newcastle Au I used to look after a dredge there.
The 855 powered the truck world forever too, It is a wonderful engine with no external fuel lines We would turn the big end shells at 400000 miles
the only thing that bothered them was lack of water filter maintainence when those electric mice would eat the liner bottoms near the seals and cause a leak into the crankcase of cooling water

[bernd1972]

What about a naturally aspired MAN 2866? They are great reliable engines with very good fuel economy reasonable prices for spare parts since they have been built for quite a long time now in incredible numbers so there should be plenty of possibilities to get rebuilt ones for a very good price.

[copenhagen]

insnt this one of those questions with no definate answer... it depends entirely on what you are installing it in, what use it will see and how much money you have....

having seen a couple of them appart (a deutz, a yanmar and an aging penta) my first vote would be yanmar, but after hearing a scania 14L V8 ideling its my favorite (even if its not on the list or within the power specs :-) ... for no other reason than the sound..

[Easy Rider]

If you're go'nna talk sound it's DD all the way for me.

Easy Rider

[whitepointer23]

If you're go'nna talk sound it's DD all the way for me.

Easy Rider

2nd that, i would have another dd just so i could listen to it.

[Icebreaker]

1946 Chev flat 6 Gas - sewing machine at idle - gentle tick tick tick

[Karl2]

2nd that, i would have another dd just so i could listen to it.

Sound....Agree, DD is hard to beat. Other than that.....They are also an efficient energy converter, problem is it converts fossil fuel to mechanical noise. Fossil fuel to propulsion trust - Not so much.

Still...Love the old DD (Especially the 71 series).

Karl

[brian eiland]

...this gentleman was quite complimentry about his choice of a 6 cyl Daewoo....and I believe he has lots of experience in commercial boat operations

The engine is a Daewoo L136 8ltr 6 cylinder marine diesel. It is naturally aspirated and rated for heavy duty continuous operation producing 160Hp at 2200rpm. In industrial service it has proved to be an extremely efficient and reliable engine. Many fishing vessels in UK waters have replaced ageing Gardners with this engine or a turbo derivative and their owners find that the engine is considerably more economical that their Gardners were. The UK importer makes very little money from the sale of spares other than routine servicing items! L136 Engine leaflet and power/torque curves. Being a direct injection engine, it does not have glow plugs, so there is one less thing to go wrong and maintain. The engine was impressively supplied with all ancilliaries - batteries, Morse throttle and cables, water inlet and kingston valve, toolkit with all special to engine spanners and tools, a years worth of servicing spares, spare gaskets, impeller, hoses and jubilee clips and even a pair of overalls with "Daewoo" on the back. It was supplied by Watermota and the package also included a 2 hour shore installation review at Triton before being KEI was launched by a Daewoo engineering representative prior to first use and then a sea trial. Only after this is the installation signed off and the warranty commences. Overall, the Daewoo package is a very good deal and having a commercial type back up is very reassuring. In operation, the engine sounds great and makes all the right noises for a luxemotor.

http://www.luxe-motor-kei.co.uk/mecheng.htm

....very interesting canal barge building site of his

[Adler]

I would like to give an alternative option.

Let's say Moteurs Baudouin.

Marine , Reliable , squared (150x150) , low consumption , IMO2 , low maintenance , 1800 rpm top speed , Heavy duty , 75 to 90 HP/cylinder, turbocharged w/ aftercooler.
They provide also gearboxes - oil bath stern tubes - propellers etc.,

Anyway is an option ...

[whitepointer23]

...this gentleman was quite complimentry about his choice of a 6 cyl Daewoo....and I believe he has lots of experience in commercial boat operations

The engine is a Daewoo L136 8ltr 6 cylinder marine diesel. It is naturally aspirated and rated for heavy duty continuous operation producing 160Hp at 2200rpm. In industrial service it has proved to be an extremely efficient and reliable engine. Many fishing vessels in UK waters have replaced ageing Gardners with this engine or a turbo derivative and their owners find that the engine is considerably more economical that their Gardners were. The UK importer makes very little money from the sale of spares other than routine servicing items! L136 Engine leaflet and power/torque curves. Being a direct injection engine, it does not have glow plugs, so there is one less thing to go wrong and maintain. The engine was impressively supplied with all ancilliaries - batteries, Morse throttle and cables, water inlet and kingston valve, toolkit with all special to engine spanners and tools, a years worth of servicing spares, spare gaskets, impeller, hoses and jubilee clips and even a pair of overalls with "Daewoo" on the back. It was supplied by Watermota and the package also included a 2 hour shore installation review at Triton before being KEI was launched by a Daewoo engineering representative prior to first use and then a sea trial. Only after this is the installation signed off and the warranty commences. Overall, the Daewoo package is a very good deal and having a commercial type back up is very reassuring. In operation, the engine sounds great and makes all the right noises for a luxemotor.

http://www.luxe-motor-kei.co.uk/mecheng.htm

....very interesting canal barge building site of his

daewoo are popular in cray boats here, pretty good value with all the extras.

[peter radclyffe]

grenaa

[peter radclyffe]

your poll is backward and insular, considering how many engines there are

[powerabout]

Grenna start at 600hp?