George Buehler designs

[wardd]

what are your thoughts on George Buehler designs?

[apex1]

Heavy, slow, cheap. But some are nice (at least for my eyes, I like sturdy workboat looks of the 30ies).
What are you looking for especially (the Ducks?).

[wardd]

right now just curiosity

i think the double enders are eye catching

my attitude is if you on the water at the helm you don't see what it looks like,

my criteria run to safety, sea worthiness, functionality and comfort ie form follows function

a weekend chasing down uboats on the wide open is good for the soul

unless theres another reason to go sailing

[PAR]

George has all but given up on his sail designs. Who knows why, likely the interest in his Ducks.

With the rare exception, his sail designs we un-Godly slow in all but moderate gale conditions. On the other hand they could "swat small aircraft from the sky", which is sometime to brag about I guess.

If interested in the same salty styling and simple build techniques as George Buehler's work, drop me an email. I can offer plans that use very similar techniques, but without the weight penalty and the cost of heavy displacement construction (build costs can be directly related to displacement). These designs will easily out perform the shapes George uses and still have the built like a tank mentality he has made famous.

Is there a specific design you're interested in?

To directly answer your questions. His sailboat shapes (with a few exceptions) are very poor performers, though they will handle quite a load and sink fairly uniformly as they take on stores, which is good for a cruiser. His powerboat shapes are slightly better, but still not in keeping with many of the modern innovations we've learned in recent decades.

My point isn't to put George down, quite the contrary, his books and work helped opened up a new revival in building and some of his boats are as salty as they get. My point is that you can have your cake and eat it too. You can have a stout hull that will show it's stern post to most that try to keep up, plus have the hull volume to drag along all the stuff you need.

I've been aboard several different Buehler designs and have sail a few as well.

[bjenkins]

what are your thoughts on George Buehler designs?

about five years ago, i built his 34 ft. "alaska", page 332 of his book
definetly very heavy construction. stringers were 2x4,s. I followed his design
to the letter except i built a long deckhouse. Ithink that because of the heavy construction, 10 years down the road you have material to work with
when making repairs. E-mails to Buehler were semi successfull and later i think he went big time and was hard to get hold of.

[narwhal]

about five years ago, i built his 34 ft. "alaska", page 332 of his book.

Any photos you'd like to share? If you were doing it again, what would you do differently?

[bjenkins]

How do i send pics. in this "quick repy message?

[bjenkins]

I was only able to get hold of one pic................hope this works

[apex1]

I was only able to get hold of one pic................hope this works

When you use the "quick reply" you cannot upload pictures! Check the "go advanced" button, then "manage attachments"................

Tatäääää

[bjenkins]

Here go,s again If this works i.ll send another reply and tell a big story

[narwhal]

That photo posted just fine. Tell us a little more, for instance, what engine, how has she worked out for your needs, etc.

[bjenkins]

O.K.........Things are working better. If i did this again i would buld Ted Brewers "Quiet Times" with 2 20 hp outboards.
i built this boat in northeast okla. out on 10 acres i wish i still had.
Started with a 20 x 40 tin bulding with oak floor about lowboy high
wich proved perfect when we dragged it out. a 16 ft. ceiling hieght
with trusses that looked like boat frames, gussets and all.
The engine is a 40 hp diesel (lister) The plans called for three layers of half inch ply. after one layer of half in., i went to 3/8" because you cant pull 1/2"
in at the bow. the stern i strip planked I ended up with forever leak at the keel (about 1 gal. in 24 hrs.} i know thats nothing and everyone told me that.
when you assemble the keel pieces at the shaft, use a pipe over the shaft
I think the rudder could be bigger the the plans call for. I launched the boat at Kerr lake in Okla. There about a year, then moved it to Aransis Pass Tx.
where i did a lot of work inside, Dock rent went up and up, needed an AC and
genset and finally sold it. I had more fun building this boat than going down the intercoastal approaching a 100 ft. wide tow. I,ll try to get more pics.

[bjenkins]

more pics.

[bjenkins]

maybe this works

[goodwilltoall]

Think Pilgrim is the best boat George ever designed. The Ellemaid is pretty good and Idlewood is a good one as well except for being top heavy. Circumnavagiting through the Northwest Passage is quite an achievement.

The rest of the diesel ducks are completly contrary to what he claims he is trying design-low, lean, and long fuel efficient passagemakers.

The sailboat are strong, hefty, and slow.

Would like to hear from others on thier impressions of Pilgrim.

[Tad]

Think Pilgrim is the best boat George ever designed.
Would like to hear from others on thier impressions of Pilgrim.

It may well be the best boat he ever designed, but without one being built that's a bit of an empty claim......I've got drawers full of "the best boat I ever designed" too bad no one wants one..........

As always the power specified on the website is about half of that actually required to achieve those speeds. Even if she could be built at 11,000 pounds, which is unlikely, she would require 22HP (at the prop) under ideal conditions, to achieve 8.5 knots.

Unless you saw the lumber in your backyard from trees felled on the back forty, this boat will never be worth the cost of materials to build her.

[goodwilltoall]

Tad,

Dory's are great boats, and Pilgrim is the biggest motorboat dory known.
Think the power source was a 13hp SABB, have heard of many good things about them, think their discontinued. You might be right about it being underpowered, but as long as it can still make way under most conditions going slower is not a problem.

If there was one offered for $15,000.00 as George says it would cost to build, it would be picked up very quickly.

[apex1]

Tad,

Dory's are great boats, and Pilgrim is the biggest motorboat dory known.
Think the power source was a 13hp SABB, have heard of many good things about them, think their discontinued. You might be right about it being underpowered, but as long as it can still make way under most conditions going slower is not a problem.

If there was one offered for $15,000.00 as George says it would cost to build, it would be picked up very quickly.

Goody,

again, not to bother you, but your posts raise a serious question about your age.

You try to tell a successful NA about his business here! TAD for sure, knows much more about dories and the "pilgrim" plans, than you would after building one.

Are you older than 14 years? Or just stubborn to a insane extend?

[Tad]

AFAIK Bill Garden's 88' Power Dory holds the size record, and there's a 65' steel cruising dory by Dave Gerr, and Jay Benford has a 60' three masted junk schooner dory.

I would disagree on dory's being great boats, but they were useful on the Grand Banks for many years.

I don't think you could get an operating 44' boat out $15k worth of crap from Home Depot any more, perhaps if you sheath nothing and find a well used powertrain.

[goodwilltoall]

Tad,

Maybe should have just said I like dorys.

After leaving remembered Ruell Parker 50' Dory and your right the SABB is 10hp.

Can you give more information about the other dories you mention and what do you think the ride and motion of Pilgrim would be in different seas?

[Tad]

Drawings for Garden's big dory appear in his book Yacht Designs II, the drawings for Gerr's dory are in his book The Nature of Boats, and Benford's big dory appears (briefly) in Annie Hill's Voyaging on a Small Income.

With a D/L of 73 at her designed displacement of 11,000 pounds, and only 6-8" of boat in the water......ride and motion in a sea will be....WILD! Seat belts required.....

[goodwilltoall]

Tad,

Were the other small dories that WILD? George says that in previous years he sailed on something much smaller and since Pilgrim is much more substantial should prove satifactory, more inclined to stay coastal but able to venture out.

[PAR]

Godwilltoall, what do you like about dories? Have you been on a dory? Was it a real dory, or was it what someone called a dory. My point is, real dories suck as sea boats unless they have doubled their displacement with a belly full of dieing fish. Simply put, dories are working craft of several (okay, maybe as many as 12), fairly specific shapes which literally need to have their chines pushed down twice as deep as they are when empty or they are ungodly beasts to handle in any sea.

Anyone contemplating a dory should be set adrift in one, just outside a breaking inlet and told to "come on in". You'll very quickly realize these antique work boats need more sailor than you can hope to ever be, to handle them. This isn't to suggest you'll never be a good sailor, but that real dories are less good sea boat and more the result of surviving fishermen telling how lucky they are to be alive.

If you look at all the successful, modern "dories" they aren't real dories, but modified dories, skiffs with a lot of flare and other contrivances. Jay Benford's dories have a ballasted fin beneath them, that is deeper then the topside freeboard is tall! He openly admits to the obvious modifications he's made to the dory hull form. Adjustments to rocker, bottom width, displacement distribution, etc. all need to be addressed before he was comfortable with call them "sea worthy".

You seem enamored with George's work. That's great, now price up one of his builds. Even if you can use Lowe's/Dept stuff (unrealistic), you'll have to buy so much more, then that a conventional, modern design will still come out cheaper. And best of all, the modern design will be easier to build, faster and have more accommodations. Jay's original dory designs (26' through 37') are now in the 30 year old (maybe more, I didn't look it up) bracket. they come in at half the displacement of anything George has dreamed up and displacement is directly related to the materials you have to buy and install in the boat. Jay would never be confused with a designer interested in light weight hulls or scantlings.

I have to admit, Pilgrim is likely the lightest 40' boat George has ever designed by a wide margin. Maybe he's finally catching on.

[dskira]

Dories were designed to be stocked one hull inside the other, piling on deck of the mother shooner.
Therefore the shape.
Nothing to do with seaworthiness.
Daniel

[PAR]

There are quite a few dories that can't be nested or stacked Daniel. If you take a half a dozen gunning dories and stack them up, you'll just have broken thwarts and end decks. The same would be true of a Swampscott or North Shore dory. I can think of at least 12 distinct dory types.

The Grand banks dory would nest and stack neatly, but the shape came from needing to pick up displacement rapidly as they were loaded up. These where generally called "fisherman" style and the PPI empty with just the skipper aboard may have been a couple of hundred pounds, for the first inch, but then the second inch would be 500 pounds and the third inch of immersion 800 pounds and this continued until a rail was under. Most small, open fishing boats also have an increasing PPI, but not such a dramatically increasing one, which is why they "steadied down" so well with a half a boat full of fish. This quickly lowered their CG and stabilized the craft and was likely why fisherman survived to brag about their amazing little adventures, which naturally lead to unrealistic sea going expectations of these little boats. Personally, I think everyone interested in a dory, should take one out (a real fishermen style) in a good chop and see what they're all about.

[frank smith]

I like the idea of Beuhler's boats , but they seam old fashioned to me. His sailboats have rather steep dead rise to the bottom., and put a lot of buoyancy down low , so that the depth and amount of ballast have to be great.
I like the double ended look , but hard chine boat are better with a transom stern IMO, and his building methods dont make the best of plywoods strength.Besides there are many old wholesome designs to be had. For sailing designs I would look at Wittholz designs.

[goodwilltoall]

Good answers PAR.