Avia Virtual Instruments for Windows PCs

[yacht371]

http://www.aviadesign.com/ingolHor.jpg
Avia design has developed an inexpensive program to display sailing information (from NMEA 0183) on the screen of a laptop or other onboard computer. Several themes are avilable, this is the "Ingolstadt". A free download is available for trial.

Avia Power is a NMEA 2000 application under development for power boat instruments.

www.aviadesign.com

[Tim B]

I must admit that I like the artwork. However, OpenPilot has been capable of doing this for about the last 12 months. OP also allows you to build your own custom instrument panel.

Tim B.

[mydauphin]

Anyone doing this in Linux?

[marshmat]

I'm used to doing that sort of thing in Labview, which is rather expensive.... really easy to interface with all sorts of data acquisition hardware, though, and logging and data processing is a cinch. I know there are serial and CANbus drivers for Labview, thus one could almost certainly use it with NMEA 0183 and 2000.

[Tim B]

OpenPilot is developed under Linux (I'm using Debian Lenny, but it should be pretty distro-general). OP is a bit "Do It Yourself" (which means you have great flexibility, but it does require a general knowledge of how to compile code. There are plenty of test apps and samples around though, and if you get stuck you can always drop me an e-mail.

Incidentally, OP also has a charting capability, with GPS tracks and AIS, ENC Charts and OpenStreetMap Support.

Cheers,

Tim B.

[yacht371]

Avia Sailing is not intended to compete with Open Pilot or other Open Source projects. It is intended for less tech-savvy consumers, with the simplest possible configuration, standard windows setup program, and so forth. Although inexpensive, it isn't free. A great deal of care has been taken in the design and appearance aspects, and full technical support is provided.

I haven't tried Open Pilot, but I did look at the documentation. An excellent piece of work, and it looks like it will do the job.

aviadesign.com

[Tim B]

Yes,

I'll grant you that Installing OpenPilot is not quite as simple as Avia (but that's a question of what we're concentrating on).

One of the next things we'll be looking at is implementing NMEA 2000 compatibilty (and no, I'm not promising when that will be done :-P ).

OpenPilot is written primarily for handling marine mapping, charts and navigation. The gauge widgets in OpenPilot were really an easy way to get my head around QT4!

Latest screenshot is here:

http://openpilot.engineering.selfip.org/gallery.php?display=Screenshots%2FScreenshot0020.png

I would be very interested in any input anyone has to make. You can contact the development team through:

openpilot-developers AT lists.sourceforge.net

Cheers all,

Tim B.

[mydauphin]

Anyone know of a system to connect none Canbus engine to Canbus system .

[Tim B]

OpenPilot has details (circuit and code) for an Analogue to Digital converter which may help you. It would be a pretty good solution if you intend to use a PC to drive the instruments anyway. It's available in the snapshot on the OP website.

Tim B.

[nimbusgb]

Anyone know of a system to connect none Canbus engine to Canbus system .

Sorry only just joined but it may still be pertinent.

FWmurphy and cantronik now both do converters to go from traditional engine instrumentation to canbus.

I have fitted a system to my 23 year old Perkins 4108 and I'm very chuffed with it.

[gonzo]

Using Windows for anything of critical importance like navigation is foolish. Windows is an unstable and unpredictable operating system.

[DaveJ]

Of all the operating systems out there, windose is the most unstable, yet it is the most used, go figure, i guess its the VHS v BETA debate all over again.

[TerryKing]

I've seen a dozen or more operating systems used in semi-critical applications, running complex tools/equipment in Semiconductor fabrication.

Nothing is perfect, but most crashes I investigated had to do with application programs and communications subsystems that had some fault, or did not recover properly from some 'should-be-expected' condition like a timeout, hardware subsystem failure, or garbled data.

Rarely was there a fault in the basic operating system internals, unless it was an early / beta build.

Windows NT and IBM OS/2 guts are the basis for Windows XP family, and back in that day I saw that protect mode usually keeps a clean application running even when other applications in the box fail.

Stripped-down Win XP SP2 and SP3 are used in a lot of complex systems and seem to be as good or better than QNX, Unix variants or specific ""Real-Time" operating systems.

I have run "Tiny XP" , with NO add-ons or unknown downloaded programs, for 500+ hours, running an NMEA navigation simulator driving OziExplorer showing charts and some data, with no crashes.

I'm planning, when I get finally moved in and my lab stuff unpacked, to try a similar run with OpenPilot.

Lots of people have Windows problems, but they are usually caused by unstable applications, imperfect plug-ins, games, and viruses.

I think Windows XP SP3 can be as stable as anything else, with the possible exception of a dedicated chart plotter. But we've heard of them hanging up also...

Anyone running Windows XP on a live boat for many hours??

[gonzo]

I've had problems with heavy vibration or impact in boats. It makes errors on the reading of the hardrive. What kind of hardrives for laptops are there that handle say 3G accelerations?

[TerryKing]

Gonzo, the hard drives used in Laptops can take fairly high accelerations.

I use a Hitachi 2.5 inch drive in the system I'm working on... Let me find it.. (I'm unpacking from another continent-move)..

Hitachi HTS(E)541680J9SA00
5V 700 ma
80 GB
SATA

This is good for high accelerations compared to regular drives. Its also so light and small that it will be easy to shockmount inside the enclosure..

Low power too: 3.5W. And I had Windows Power Management shut it off when not used for 5 mins. When Oziexplorer got to another chart, it took about 30 seconds to come up and get the new map...

I hope to get back on this in about a month when things settle down. My wife has just designed and set up 3 school libraries at a new university just built on the Red Sea.. We just got into our almost-finished house, after living in a hotel for 8 weeks and riding the bus 3 hours a day.

The good news is that we're right on the Red Sea, with a marina being built and a canal right by the island neighborhood we're in. Gonna build boats!!!

[DaveJ]

I brought a Asus EEPC as they use solid state HD's, small in Gig's, but you can always increase with SD cards (they make 32 gig ones now). With solid state HD, they basically resistant to every thing but a hammer.

[DaveJ]

Oh, i forgot the mention, i have just the bare bones system on the internal HD, put oziexplorer and the maps on one SD card, and seaclearII and its maps on another SD card. Have velcro pads on the bottom EEPC, with matching velcro pads on my 4WD and when i use use it in the boat, just swap SD card to sea clear II.

[TerryKing]

Davej, that sounds like a workable approach for marine use. Couple questions:

- Does the SD card appear as D: or some removable drive?
- What is the SD interface? Can you have more than one SD card active?

- What OS version are you running? How did you "Strip it down"?? (I have seen scripts that will strip XP down to different degrees depending on what functionality you want to leave.)

- How much do you actively control OziExplorer underway? Zoom, etc? Driving as both pilot and navigator doesn't leave much mouse capability :-)

Does the EEpc have any external display capability? I'm looking at what needs to be done to have a waterproof at-the-helm capability...

..lots of stuff to consider!

It's an amazing era. My Nokia phone has GPS and the free Nokia maps of Saudi Arabia have every little alley in Jeddah. Walking in 105 F 'weather' it was nice not to get lost...

[mark775]

Maretron N2KView, http://www.maretron.com/products/N2KView.php , is down to under $500. Is what you guys are talking about as capable?

[DaveJ]

TerryKing: The SD card appears as a removable drive, but is always call D:, you install the software to that drive, just make sure that the correct SD card is in the drive for the piece of software you want to run, otherwise it just complains it can't find it. the version of EEPC that i have which is the 7" can be obtained with windows XP or Linux, i run the XP version, thinking i should have got the linux version (XP version is slightly dearer).

The sc card slot will take the SDHC cards so up to 32 gig, it also has 3 USB ports, eithernet 100, and 54mhz wifi. It has the standard vga port for a second monitor but due to the limited capablility of the device it only supports 800x600 res. the battery life is 3.5 hrs but does have a DC input, and it all weights 1kg.

In my 4WD i use a mouse ontop of the dash to help with navagating, but the end goal is to use a touch screen monitor and that will be the method of inferface for the boat, that i haven't got yet, but thinking ahead.

[TerryKing]

Thanks, DaveJ..

The 800x600 should be OK for at-the-helm. Maybe actually better for underway visibility.

I don't think OziExplorer runs on Linux??

[DaveJ]

Fonts becomes a issue with higher resolutions, so with you that 800x600 is fine navagating with.

[farjoe]

TerryKing: The SD card appears as a removable drive, but is always call D:, you install the software to that drive, just make sure that the correct SD card is in the drive for the piece of software you want to run, otherwise it just complains it can't find it. the version of EEPC that i have which is the 7" can be obtained with windows XP or Linux, i run the XP version, thinking i should have got the linux version (XP version is slightly dearer).

The sc card slot will take the SDHC cards so up to 32 gig, it also has 3 USB ports, eithernet 100, and 54mhz wifi. It has the standard vga port for a second monitor but due to the limited capablility of the device it only supports 800x600 res. the battery life is 3.5 hrs but does have a DC input, and it all weights 1kg.

In my 4WD i use a mouse ontop of the dash to help with navagating, but the end goal is to use a touch screen monitor and that will be the method of inferface for the boat, that i haven't got yet, but thinking ahead.

A friend of mine just brought over for me an MSI netbook from Singapore for use on the boat. It has XP, 2gb and a 160Gb hard drive and a 10" screen all for 280Euros.

Together with a Haicom USB GPS (30Euro), a 12V adaptor ( 10Euro) I have installed Garmin mobilePC for land use and SeaClear for sailing. When weekending I can still use the netbook for playing and if a hotspot is available I can surf the net. An SSD drive for robustnesss is in the pipeline.

Compare that to a standard wind instrument at about 250euro at least.

I'm made up!!!

[DaveJ]

There are afew different companies making these sort of notebooks, they are light, compact yet powerfull. My choice in the Asus was based on the fact they where the only ones that where manufacturing (about 1/2 year ago) such a small device with a solid state HD, i feel with all the twisting, bumping and jarring in my 4WD while moving over harsh terrain will damage normal HD.

[yacht371]

The NMEA 2000 software we have devloped for both sail and power boats is nearing final release. A beta version is available for free download and evaluation at www.aviadesign.com/NMEA2000.

We have incorporated engines, tanks, batteries and generators on the power side, and real time polar plots and a race timer on the sailing side.

Many additional functions are planned, but we are keeping quiet about them for now.

Note that while you can download and install the software, it will not connect to the NMEA 2000 network without a hardware "dongle" which we supply. Unlike NMEA 0183, this is a proprietary interface.

The program also works with NMEA 0183 data, or a mix between the two.

[Tim B]

If I might...

NMEA 2000 is not a proprietary network. It is a CAN-based protocol for which the standard is well published. Most engine suppliers adhere to standard codes used in other (typically automotive) engines, and these codes are readily available. Other instruments may have less readily available codes (though there are NMEA2000 standard codes defined, just as with NMEA0183).

Your dongle may be proprietry.

Tim Brocklehurst

[yacht371]

It is true that NMEA 2000 is based on CANbus J1939. The engine PGNs are standard as used in automotive and truck applications. However NMEA uses specially designed water proof connectors. The NMEA 2000 spec has many more PGNs defined for things like GPS, AIS, Wind, depth, radar and many more boat specific items. The data format is not publicly available, you have to buy the documents from NMEA, and they are quite expensive. That is what I meant by proprietary.

The dongle is opto-electrically isolated so no voltage from the computer USB port ever connects to the NMEA bus. It has been approved by the NMEA.

NMEA 0183 standards were openly published, and can be easily connected to a standard RS232 port or a serial to USB adapter. In any case, Avia Onboard software works with either standard, or even both at once, getting some information from each network. For instance you might use an NMEA 0183 GPS with your other data coming from NMEA 2000.

NMEA 2000 is a far more robust standard, easier to configure(on the network end), and faster, allowing more rapid updates.

[Tim B]

yacht371,

There is a lot of FUD surrounding modern technology. It stands us both in good stead to be as accurate as possible in the description of our codes and the technology we use.

This way, the user has a chance of knowing what they're doing.

Tim B.

[powerabout]

I have read one of the problems with the generic NMEA2k software is that the manufactueres of the hardware you want to look at have propriatory setup systems so you still require at least one viewer/controller to set the gear up?
IS this still true?
Set up not being part of the canbus standard.

[apex1]

I have read one of the problems with the generic NMEA2k software is that the manufactueres of the hardware you want to look at have propriatory setup systems so you still require at least one viewer/controller to set the gear up?
IS this still true?
Set up not being part of the canbus standard.

Thats true in several cases.

And NMEA 2000 is based on CAN but not CAN standard (there are thousands)

[powerabout]

Re Windows NT, started life way back as version 3.1 1993, yes alongside the DOS/ Windows 3.0
Then went on 3.5 3.51. 4, 2000, xp all just NT with a few updates( vista was a big change)
They are still called by their numbers by Microsoft, Vista being NT 6.0 and Windows 7 called NT 6.1..thats a bit wierd?

It was used running many different types of machinery ( like cash registers but not with Intel processors )as you could always get imbedded versions and for different types of processors which made it very fast and reliable. Intel couldnt compete for speed or reliabilty and multiprocessor as the architecture is not suited to those jobs but look where we ended up!!
It has also carried with it a crap network architecture from the OS2 days, 'lanmanager' and microsoft have always promised to ween itself off it but??

The graphic module was placed into the kernal in NT4 to speed up the look and feel but that meant if there is a video hardware/driver problem it can lock up.
To me the problems with the the old blue screen of death and lockups are always hardware based.
Quality hardware just doesnt have the problems the cheaper stuff has.

If you are asking a consumer product to do what requires commercial stability and reliability you need to look elsewhere and it will be sitting on propriatory hardware as well.

[marshmat]

Complaints about Windows aside (and yes, Win7 is essentially NT6/Vista with a few tweaks and an updated GUI).....

In theory, any NMEA 2000 compliant device should be able to automatically find its place in an arbitrary network of NMEA 2000 devices, and should be able to transmit data that can be understood by any device designed to read data from the bus.

In practice, there is not much the industry association can do to prevent certain manufacturers from producing equipment that is based on the NMEA 2000 standard, but might use different connectors, or some non-standard data, or proprietary configuration tools.

NMEA 2000 may be rapidly replacing 0183, but it's still a work in progress and to expect automatic, instant, full compatibility between all devices is perhaps a bit much to ask of a traditionally secretive, adversarial industry at this point in its development.

[Tim B]

There are a significant number of proprietary NMEA0183 sentences around as well. It is to be expected. However, compliance with these standards require that certain data is transmitted by certain types of instrument (ie. GPS transmits $GPRMC in NMEA0183). I'm still waiting to see what will happen with ethernet-based systems.

Cheers,

Tim B.

[apex1]

I'm still waiting to see what will happen with ethernet-based systems.Cheers,

Tim B.

I´m quite fine with Furuno´s Ethernet feature. (as with the rest of the quality)

[powerabout]

I´m quite fine with Furuno´s Ethernet feature. (as with the rest of the quality)

Apex
Thats only ethernet between displays I thought?
How are the sensors connected to it, nmea2k and or 0183?

[apex1]

Apex
Thats only ethernet between displays I thought?
How are the sensors connected to it, nmea2k and or 0183?

No, between the entire system. You can connect sensors by NMEA 2000 too.

[goboatingnow]

The whole issue of NMEA 2K setup and inital config is a disaster. The fact that company A display device cannot configure Company B sensor/transducer means that in effect you have to stay within a manufacturers set of products. NMEA should have required that manufacturers release PC based config systems, ie a PC connected to the CanBus. At least this would allow interoperation.

AT present NMEA 2K is there, but its too little and arguably too late.

There is also a lot of issues is using a single bus throughout a boat,

I have used it , I understand it technically, but I'm no fan

[powerabout]

There's worse
Mercury Marine did their own version so only the stuff from the electronic companies they own ( ed) will connect
So if you buy a Merc Cummins package you are stuck
Buy a Cummins from Cummins and you are ok