Tool Recommendation Please

[SeaJay]

I have a bare 46’ composite hull and am ready to start installing stringers and bulkheads. To the extent I can, I would like to sand all of the hull areas that will receive tabbing before I move the hull into the shop and start attaching things. The hull is vinylester and I will be tabbing with epoxy. Questions: What sanders and what grit is recommended? I see Festools and Fein recommended in other threads. I value good tools and don’t mind paying for them but on the other hand, this is a one-off affair for me so they won’t be in production use. Your input is appreciated.

SeaJay

[rasorinc]

I don't know what grit you should use but I would start with 80 and go from there, if no one else chimes in. For a one time sander go with Sears products. They have a good warranty and will replace broken units. I do not recommend Sears for permanent, long lasting tools but they should be fine for your use and are reasonably priced + warranty.

[alan white]

Rigid is Home Depot's brand. They are guaranteed for life. A bit more money, but foolishly, they are really lifetime guaranteed. i guess because so many weekend warriers never use their tools like I do. I've gone through plenty of 4 1/2" grinders.

[Eagle Boats]

I personally would not use an electric tool. The dust created by sanding does a number on the motor. If possible, use an air tool.

[nero]

Porter Cable 6" Random orbital sander/polisher. This is a finish sander.

Then if you want to get rid of a lot of material fast, Hitachi Vertical Disc Sander. I just got one off the web for $50 including shipping. Wish I had known about it at the start of my build.

Blow the dust out of the housing every so often with compressed air.

[blaze_125]

wire wheel attached to your preferred angle grinder will work wonders. Just make sure you're careful or you'll go through the hull in no time.

[pescaloco]

Not sure what the surface is like, but a good old Makita 4 1/2 inch grinder with a stiff backing plate and a 36 grit disc works for me. I have several they hold up very well.

[Jimbo1490]

You probably can't afford a Festool anymore. Their electric triple action is now over $600 US:(

But never fear; Makita now has a knock off of the Festo, their BO6040 (http://www.cpomakita.com/sanders_and_polishers/random_orbit_sanders/bo6040.html) which sells for around $300. This sander will do all of the tasks needed to build and then finish a boat, so it's really the only sander you will need.

Jimbo

[alan white]

Random Orbit sanders are great, but the question had to do with prepping for glassing. I've used a lot of brands of of (4") angle grinders and they all worked fine. Even in a bad fg dust environment, all survived to go on for a few years. That said, I never used them exclusively for fiberglass, mostly metal. But maybe you will not be doing glass every day either.
Air tools use a LOT of air and you need a big compressor. Electric will cost maybe 49 bucks if you shop around--- Makita, Rigid, Porter Cable, Milwaukee, etc..

[SeaJay]

Rasorinc – 80 grit is what I was planning to start with. I’ve seen it recommended by Gougeon.

Alan – I have a lot of Rigid tools and have been pleased with the quality

Eagle – I don’t presently have compressed air in the shop, but am considering it. Electricity is via a portable generator so I have to watch my watts. However I do like the weight savings of air tools. I’m going to get aggressive about dust control and plan to use a vacuum hook up to the sanders.

Nero / Blaze / Pescaloco – I like the idea of removing a lot of material in a hurry. However, a lot of this work will be done by hired hands so their concern for the 3/16ths of an inch of fiberglass they’re working on is worrisome. I’ll test these methods and see if I trust my guys with these tools.

Jimbo – I think this Makita is the workhorse I’m looking for. I’ve got a number of smaller sanders that can fill in where appropriate. Interesting…the Makita about a pound heavier than the Festool. I suppose that’s why the Festool is twice as much.

[gonzo]

I usually use 24 grit for prepping. It saves a lot of time and money

[SamSam]

I used to do a lot of grinding at a place I worked at and Like gonzo says, 24-36 grit. My procedure for fast grinding and max comfort was to bear down on the tool (6" discs) to a point a little above where it would stop rotating. I'm sure it was hard on them but they weren't mine, and even though we only used 'cheap' Sears tools, none of them ever burned up. The slow speed and high pressure ground fast and most important, the slow disc speed didn't create hardly any airborn glass.

[alan white]

I just remembered, I bought 50 grit discs to prep for a reinforcing layer or two at the angle between centerboard and bottom, inside a 12 ft O'Day sailboat. 80 grit? Too fine, and 36 was too aggressive for this job. Not all jobs are the same.

[PAR]

Angle grinders with sanding disks and sander/buffers with bigger diameter sanding disks. These are the tools of the trade when it comes to bulk material removal and roughing up surfaces. The lowest grits work best. 16, 24, 36 and 40 will do a lot of damage fairly quickly, so be careful. You can make a career out of higher grits, they just don't move enough material. Tabbing locations don't have to be pretty, just well "toothed" and clean. As Alan said you can be too aggressive, but this can be controlled a great deal by how you work the tool. With a 7" disk and 16 grit, you can move at a rapid pace and in one or two swipes down the surface have the deed done. You'll probably be safest with 24 to 40 grit if using these tools is new to you.

For you project, I use a fairly small electric, inexpensive buffer/sander. It's low amperage will be kind to your power supply and they don't cost much. If after 40 bucks, you've got the job done and the Harbor Freight cheapo sander takes a dump, you will not feel so bad.

[Jimbo1490]

Random Orbit sanders are great, but the question had to do with prepping for glassing.

The Festool RO150 and the Makita BO6040 are no mere 'random orbit ' sanders; they are triple action beasts that with the flip of a switch change action from random orbit to epicycloid (geared orbit) to true rotary grinder/polisher.

Jimbo

[Steve W]

Exactly what Par,pescaloco and gonzo have recommended, your not polishing the damned thing, 24 thru 40 grit will get the job done ,even 40 is getting a bit too fine.
Steve.

[alan white]

The Festool RO150 and the Makita BO6040 are no mere 'random orbit ' sanders; they are triple action beasts that with the flip of a switch change action from random orbit to epicycloid (geared orbit) to true rotary grinder/polisher.

Jimbo

Interesting. The Makita--- how much? Any case, I meant that a typical strictly RO sander is more suited to finish work, while a typical angle grinder is fast and powerful and cheap--- and well suited to material removal..

[SeaJay]

I'm sensing a theme here...heavier grit, slower speed, less dust. Good discussion, thanks to all.

The Makita can be had for $285 new and about $100 less as "reconditioned"

http://www.tylertool.com/makbo66varsp.html

Doesn't seem too bad for a pretty versatile tool.

[SamSam]

Pawn shops have that stuff. If they ask $100, offer them $25. You'd be surprised how much they'll deal.

[PAR]

Trust me, a cheap Harbor Freight tool will serve you fine. Paying a few hundred for a tool you'll not use very often just seems silly. Now, if you're making a living with the thing, it's a different ball of wax . . .

[Jimbo1490]

The BO6040 is one of Makita's hottest products; a HF copy can't be far behind. Some recent HF tools have been pretty good. I wish I could say that about their recently re-vamped 7" sander-polisher, which is exactly the tool you would use for heavy composite grinding.

I'm working on a 'mini yacht' over in Merritt Island and bought one for the job at the HF store in Melbourne, since all my 'normal' tools are air tools so no good for a boat on the water. It lasted one day before the switch quit (OK yes I pushed it pretty hard, but that's what you do with these things :D). They swapped it out, no questions. But the replacement is starting to get intermittent, just like the first one did before it took the dirt nap. :(

Jimbo

[waikikin]

Seajay, you might want to try some ZEC discs on your grinder too. All the best in your dusty endeavours from Jeff.

[whoosh]

usually I do not contribute to threads where a 100 people can and do respond
But after 45 years using power tools I have found, that, one can NEVER EVER , save on tools
For instance, I bought a 9 inch AEG grinder in 1972, it is still going strong, then I tried things like Colt, which in pro use lasted just days
If you are a handyman, then buy best, heck you can leave the tools to your grandchildren, If you are pro, then those tools are , there for you, always
In Alloy building 5 of us went through one hand electric saw a year We used Aeg, Bosch, Makita, this is sawiung long cuts, maybe 30 mins at a time, when the saw would start to chatter
Sanders(orbital) Ryobi etc,
same with hand tools, chisels, planes, screwdrivers, buy best with best reputation
www.canal-river-boats.com

[gary1]

Evening,
I am with with Whoosh 100% on this, mate buy the best sander you can afford. When I was building my boat I started of buying the el-cheapo sanders that the market is flooded with these days thinking they will be all that I will need, now not having a lot of fibre glassing experience they would get a fair work out.
When I finished the boat I had gone through a total of 13 sanders number 13 being a Bosch which cost me a fair bit of cash but was the only one that handled the punishment I was putting them through and I still have it. The other 12 cheap ones which I ende up buying 2 at a time were just false economics considering I would have a 240 klm round trip to replace them each time. They would burn out become clogged with dust broken switches you name it they stuffed up some way, except for one which I flogged up the side of a tree for 5mins but that's another story.
Buy the best name brand you can afford trust me you won't regret it.
Gary

[waikikin]

I'll second & third Whoosh & Gary on the quality tools, I've had most of mine for nearly 3 decades,- as a first year I invested in bosch, aeg, makita & along the way some rupes & festo & still have most of the originals- a bosch 9" grinder & bosch jigsaw wore out at about 20 years but were well & truly "paid for", occassionally I've bought a cheapy for a specific job but they usualy dont last, also blow out your machines with compressed air esp' when grinding glass. Regards from Jeff.

[stilloutoffocus]

i wholeheartedly agree with the harbor freight comment. I just recently replaced my HF angle grinder because the dust had gotten into the switch so bad that it wouldnt turn on or off when asked. i would blow it out with air after each use but the buildup was finally too much for the electric switches. but hey $30 for about 3-4 years of hardcore grinding is worth it to me. id feel sick to my stomach to spend 300-600 dollars for a tool i was intent on destroying.

[TeddyDiver]

In case a cheapo grinder lasts long enough to the end of the project and happens to be efficent enough not to drive me in to a mental breakdown the fillings in my teeths don't.. ;)
Buy the best.. forget the rest..

[PAR]

Your choice 10 $40 sanders or one $400 sander, you make the call based on how much work you'll be doing. For a single project, it seems foolish to buy a $400 tool when a couple of $40 deals will get you through the tasks. Again, if you're making a living, then you need tools that will take you to retirement.

[SeaJay]

For the record, I just purchased the Makita 6" sander. I got a reconditioned one (same warrantee as new) for $146 from Tyler Tool. (Thanks for the recommendation Jimbo) This seemed like a reasonable all around compromise.

http://www.tylertool.com/bo6040r.html

I sort of fall into the camp of good tools are a better long-term value. I can’t remember ever looking at a tool in my shop and thinking I wish I hadn’t paid so much for it. More often than not, when one of my cheaper purchases craps out I replace it with the quality tool I should have purchased in the first place. Having said that, shelling out $500 for the Festool grinder or $300 for a new Makita does give me pause especially since I have several sanders that, according to this thread, will get the job done just fine thank you.

However, I think this tool is going to see a lot of use. While it can get about as aggressive as my 7” grinder when need be, one feature the Mikta has that the grinder doesn’t, and is important to me, is the vacuum port. Also, I think that using a sanding pad and a coarse abrasive disc will help keep my crew from grinding into the core. On the other hand, later down the line I have a lot of finish sanding to do and this is going to cover the larger areas better than my smaller sanders.

Thanks for all of the input…I didn’t expect such a spirited discussion. Also, the comments regarding grit coarseness and sanding speeds were very informative and useful. Regards to all…

SeaJay

[mydauphin]

Use to buy $300 name brand sanders. Now I buy 3 Harbour freight for $30 each, then get warranty on one. Every 3 months I replace one. Usually they break because we abuse them. Even expensive units will die from fine dust. Also my guys have a tendency to leave them outside or apply to much pressure to grind out metals.

As far as dust, I used thicker grit at slower speed as much as possible, I collect dust for making filler. Harbour Freight has Polisher/Sander Variable speed for between $29 and $49, I always buy then on sale and use coupons. Then fine sanding I used orbitals with vacuum. Rigid has a nice 6' unit about $150

[SeaJay]

mydauphin - Interesting idea about using the dust...

Just a quick follow-up on progress. We jumped on it today...started with some 60 grit and was reminded of what my old boss used to holler at us, "We ain't building pianos here boys!" We were just twiddling our thumbs with 60...jumped straight to the 24, now that's the ticket!