Adirondack Challenger / Texas Water Safari

[spidennis]

I've got two races in different parts of the USA and I want one boat doing both.
The adirondack boat has to be portaged, one section is 1.25 miles of rocky uphill trail,
and the 260 mile texas race has some narrow parts with logs and small rapids.
Now, what design to use?

http://www.macscanoe.com/90-Miler/90-miler_Index.htm

http://www.texaswatersafari.org/

Rick's V14 look really interesting, and his designs are race proven.
I'll think I'll follow the path of success!

http://www.sandslave.com/v14/V14_Side_Viewb.jpg

http://www.sandslave.com/v14/V14_Port_Bowb.jpg


rick, you mentioned flat panel construction. got any links or other info for me to get educated on?

every time I do a search here I get side tracked with some other thread .....
i discovered that BG_Geno lives down by me? I wonder if I know him? or he knows me?
I pm-ed him, anyway, like I said, distractions ......
I hadn't seen his boat that he was working on either btw ....

then there's the mitrpak gearbox. is there any gear reduction on this or is it 1:1?

the bicycle peddle bits I got no idea about .....
other than I know I can get quick drain bicycle shoes.
what bicycle bits should I be looking for?

there's an aluminum fab shop near me so I can use him to fab up the metal structure.

In the design I'll try and allow for my future enhancements once I know the method
I'll be using to build the hulls with. and of course what it is exactly I want done!
mounting points, stress areas, etc.

I saw that the hobie mirage drive uses stainless steel chain,
so I'll have to see if I can find and use that instead of something that will rust to pieces
after one outing in our hypersaline environment.
anything else I can on the drive system to make it last longer?

ok, this is enough for me to chew on for now .....

[Guest625101138]

Just to be sure of the task. Do you have an option to portage through all the narrow shallow bits? And, if you did this, would it put you behind seriously?

This will have some bearing on the boat design because I would always go for light weight and ease of portage rather than heavy weight and indestructible as there is some portage involved.

The other thing is that you need to specify the engine capability. Unless you are a regular recumbent cycler with power data you need to get to a gym and do some calibration on a recumbent cycle machine. You need a machine that will display power and is accurate. Compare a few to see that they are consistent. The approach here is to set the resistance level to feel quite easy and spin at the preferred rpm. Keep trimming speed and resistance over 1 hour until you find what you can sustain. The power level over the last ten minutes is a good starting point for design. There are other ways like climbing stairs but you need a tall building to get a good idea. Using a GPS and jogging up steep hill is also another way to get useful power data.

I believe my last frame is the best. It is simply carbon fibre tube glassed taped at the joins. I was able to get some offcuts of high modulus tube that is 40mm OD and 2.1mm wall thickness. It is about ideal. Would maybe go a little thicker. Every time I lift the boat I appreciate the low weight of CF.

I show a little of how V14 was built in the pedal boat thread. Greg K is providing detail on the flat panel construction of his Ocean Within here:
http://www.adventuresofgreg.com/HPB/HPBmain.html
You can back track through the archives to pick up a lot of useful information.

The Mitrpak boxes have stainless shafts and are either 1:1 or 2:1. The best choice is 1:1 with 1/2" shaft. The shafts are stainless.

I doubt that an ordinary bike chain will cause great concern as it normally operates in air. Keep it well lubricated. If you do not like the idea of a bike chain then you could consider a toothed belt. I am starting to play with these and they look quite good. I am surprised by how little tension they need to avoid skipping but I have not put one on a boat yet.

Using "clipless" pedals is really essential for efficiency in the recumbent position. It reduces the effort noticeably. You have to make sure you can unclip during a roll. Practice rolling out at least once before you start racing.

It is good to have access to machining and fabrication but there is very little needed. A good mill-drill or decent drill press is useful.

One item that Greg found hard to come by in North America was spring steel for the prop shaft. The best is 5/16" (or 8mm) round bar. I paint mine to avoid corrosion. The spring steel is very strong making it hard to get a low corrosion alternative. In Australia I have to place a minimum order to get what I want so I tend to have some on hand and carry a spare shaft for the MM.

Rick W

[spidennis]

thanks rick, you've given me some homework to do and I'll be getting on it. I gotta start looking for suppliers of material and give my design some thought. I won't actually be able to build anything until sept. but I can surely know what I'm gonna do when i do it. but now, it's off to those links and reading .......

[Guest625101138]

It is surprising how quickly time goes by unless you can give it full-time attention.

Greg K first approached me about a boat in August 2006 and he is only now building it. He already had a huge amount of engine data. He still does not have much on-water experience but is getting there. He is retired so is able to devote considerable time to it.

One important consideration is if the rules will permit you to compete in the first instance and on what basis in the second. The first year I did the MM I did not have a class. Now I am at least competing in the unrestricted class, which is appropriate for the boat. I also get the same age allowance and this really favours the older guys like me in my view.

Rick W

[spidennis]

I'll be gone for a couple of months during the summer so I have to wait until I get back before building anything. I am chomping at the bit to start building though, but I've got to learn all the boat building techniques first, your links have been keeping me busy! I like the idea of not using aluminum which will make me pretty much self sufficient after I learn how to use the epoxy stuff.

thats a good point about actually being allowed in a race, and if there's a class, or creating a class. I hope this isn't like the story between mono hullers and multihuller sailboat racing! I'd rather be in an unlimited class than being banned from an event.

engine data? I got none. and have no biking under my feet since I was a teenager. I'm more of a paddler than a peddler and actually I think I got a good build for paddling but being a soccer player for much of my younger life, still have the basic form from then. I have run a lot in my life, but just getting back into it again. I race offroad motorcycles in enduro events, so I know what it's like to be totally spent and will be working on ways to add supplements and nutrition to enhance my range on whatever type of event I'll be doing. though dirtbikes work my upper body, not my lower body as much, bummer ......

I live and work out of my house so when the time to build comes, I'll have the time to get after it. I got no wife, kids or other things that can get in the way.

Is that a motorcycle rear sprocket used as the front sprocket on the peddling system/drive? and what, if any, sprocket is used before it hits the mitrpak? figuring out the gear ratios would seem to be quite challenge? should I just be prepared to try out a few different combinations?

I'm having trouble seeing how your drive shaft works btw .......
and where the prop sits in relation to the boat.

[Guest625101138]

A gear ratio around 4 or 5:1 gets the prop about the right size. The prop pitch is set to match the required cadence.

The attached photo might give you a better idea of the curved shaft set up. It is spring steel and I design the curve so the shaft has infinite fatigue life. It works well within its yield limit. A pushing prop is self stabilising so it does not actually need a strut but I have one to avoid the prop hitting the hull in a turn or in waves. The strut also allows me to swing the prop outwards and upwards so I can inspect it.

Rick W

[spidennis]

prop design and manufacture:
edit: see this thread
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/propulsion/prop-manufacture-17931.html

Is this cast, forged, cnc-ed, or hand shaped?

I'd bet it would be wise for me to carry a spare huh?

the design looks simple enough,
but shapes like this must be a bear to get just right!?
I got a caf airwing near by, I wonder what wisdom they can share on
prop design and manufacture. They are some knowledgeable and crafty guys!

I noticed that greg in his record breaking run was using wool socks but his feet were not even in his shoes that were attached to the peddles? gotta change thing up some to stay comfortable I'd gather ......

[Guest625101138]

Here is another picture of the curved shaft with the boat flat on the ground. Shows how the spring steel works:
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachments/propulsion/30825d1239866833-most-efficient-propulsion-v11j_cf_frame.jpg

I have attached an image of a prop I hand fabricated and an aluminium one milled from aluminium using my CAD file. The prop is an important bit and I have done a lot of design to get the best from them. These shown here achieve efficiencies of 85 to 86% at design condition. It is much better than normal boat props because the blade loading is so low and the high aspect blades. The efficiency is similar to what is achieved with aircraft props.

I design props specifically for the application. My current challenge is to make a folding prop.

Rick W

[spidennis]

for my purposes in the waters I'll be in with rapids and waves the craft need to be a bit stronger. the single outrigger needs to be strengthened with a second arm. also it'll have to fold up or swing in, both for portages and for thinner and narrower routes. I did a bit of photoshop to this pic adding the forward arm to help show the concept.

http://www.sandslave.com/v14/dualarmoutriggersmall.jpg

[Guest625101138]

The two braces are probably a good idea. I would try to save weight by adding a clevis to the ends of both fore and aft cross tube of the frame. It means you have to climb over one of the braces or the outrigger to board but this is not a big issue.

Try to keep the component count as low as possible.

Aluminium main frame is almost as good as CF and you can bond it with glass tape. Epoxy and glass tape work well with aluminium tube.



Rick W

[spidennis]

I can see I might have a bit of a problem with the prop shaft if the outriggers swing forward, hummm .....

I already have some old windsurfing booms around and aluminum tubing is easier to get so I'll use that to help prototype the seat/drive/brace mount/structure and simulate it sitting on a boat and I can see the geometries at work. I can have this all done before I even start building the boat. I can do this during the summer. I'll also know exactly where the mounting points on the hull will be so I can add in bulkheads. this will also show me the weight distribution of this system for me to know exactly where it should mount on the hull.

(I'll have to give this seat/drive/brace mount/structure a shorter name!)

do the almas ride mostly out of the water?
this could affect my mounting/swing system if the outrigger arms need to be angled up slightly.
I guess I could always just bend the tubes huh?

I can also worry about what type of seat to use ....
and really look into the peddle and drive system.

ok, time for my morning run, and I can mull this over thru my head as the paces tick by .....

[Guest625101138]

The DRIVE FRAME can be made from aluminium tube as noted earlier. To join it you cut/rasp the ends of the tube that form leg of the 'T' to fit snugly to the top of the 'T'.

I wrap a layer of fibreglass tape on the end of the leg and in the middle of top. I then use balsa blocks or foam corner blocks to acts as side gussets either side of the leg. This is then allowed to set to form the 'T'.

Once the epoxy is set I wrap lengths of wetted fibreglass tape perpendicular, diagonally and around the join. Usually 2 or 3 layers in each direction. Once this is set you will have a bond better than welding.

You need to mechanically clean the aluminium before you do the initial wrap.

Three of these joints produces a frame. The mounting for the gearbox can use the same method of attachment. I use light angle section for the actual gearbox bracket. There are some subtleties here that I will explain when you get to that stage.

Fibreglass and aluminium have similar mechanical properties so they work well together.

The tube I use is around 40mm diameter and 1.6mm thick.

The main dimensional control on the frame is getting the crankshaft at the right height to avoid heel clipping. For me this is around 300mm. Experenced recumbent cyclists can operate with less. It is also nice to be able to move the bottom bracket along the tube to optimise the leg stretch.

Rick W

[Guest625101138]

Not sure if I have said this before but having so-called "clipless" pedals is really a must for efficient recumbent operation. Using them is much less tiring than without. It also allows you to "spin" with more even torque than just the push-push of unclipped pedaling.

I can drop my heart rate by about 5bpm by spinning rather than push-push because it is more efficient to keep the prop at constant speed. However my leg muscles are not sufficiently trained to do it continuously.

Rick W

[spidennis]

In looking over some previously saved pics I came across this. interesting ....

http://www.humanpoweredboats.com/Photos/Individuals/PedalWaa/PedalWaa.htm

[spidennis]

I went digging thru my aluminum windsurfing parts and pieces and might adapt some of that technology in setting up my initial prototype/mockup. I even stumbled into some bamboo. that could be an interesting material to use, though it's not very uniform in size, but strong and light! I might have to play with that stuff some more, but later. windsurfing gear is what I got to play with to start off with.

http://www.sandslave.com/v14/IMG_6716.jpg

http://www.sandslave.com/v14/IMG_6717.jpg

I came up with this interesting connection method for some other project.

http://www.sandslave.com/v14/IMG_6720.jpg

this is some cool stuff .....

http://www.sandslave.com/v14/IMG_6722.jpg

[spidennis]

The DRIVE FRAME can be made from aluminium tube as noted earlier. To join it you cut/rasp the ends of the tube that form leg of the 'T' to fit snugly to the top of the 'T'.

I wrap a layer of fibreglass tape on the end of the leg and in the middle of top. I then use balsa blocks or foam corner blocks to acts as side gussets either side of the leg. This is then allowed to set to form the 'T'.

Once the epoxy is set I wrap lengths of wetted fibreglass tape perpendicular, diagonally and around the join. Usually 2 or 3 layers in each direction. Once this is set you will have a bond better than welding.

You need to mechanically clean the aluminium before you do the initial wrap.

Three of these joints produces a frame. The mounting for the gearbox can use the same method of attachment. I use light angle section for the actual gearbox bracket. There are some subtleties here that I will explain when you get to that stage.

Fibreglass and aluminium have similar mechanical properties so they work well together.

The tube I use is around 40mm diameter and 1.6mm thick.

The main dimensional control on the frame is getting the crankshaft at the right height to avoid heel clipping. For me this is around 300mm. Experenced recumbent cyclists can operate with less. It is also nice to be able to move the bottom bracket along the tube to optimise the leg stretch.

Rick W

since I got plenty of aluminum tubing I'll have to try out this connection technique, and maybe try it on some bamboo while i'm at it! Once I have a mockup built I can see how all the ergos will play out and adjust from there. I do want to make it adjustable to fit other people though. In looking for possible sponsorship, this could come in handy .... (thinking ahead to the around florida race!)

[spidennis]

rick, how's that folding prop idea coming along? I can see how that could come in pretty handy!

Initially, during the summer, I'll practice making some props. I'll start with wood to make all my mistakes on. then once I got it figured out I'll go with aluminum (or whatever). I have some mesquite and ebony (a very hard wood) that might be nice to use and might even possibly work out for water tests?

I have no idea how I'm going to make a pattern or jig to make this though.

[spidennis]

here's a list of other craft (while looking for ideas):
http://www.humanpoweredboats.com/Photos/OtherDisplacementHPBs/OtherDisplacementHPBs.htm

[Guest625101138]

rick, how's that folding prop idea coming along? I can see how that could come in pretty handy!

Initially, during the summer, I'll practice making some props. I'll start with wood to make all my mistakes on. then once I got it figured out I'll go with aluminum (or whatever). I have some mesquite and ebony (a very hard wood) that might be nice to use and might even possibly work out for water tests?

I have no idea how I'm going to make a pattern or jig to make this though.

I have not started the folding prop yet other than getting some material that I will machine for the hub.

I fabricate props from stainless flatbar. If you can weld I will send you a procedure. I would need to design the prop specifically for your apllication so you still need to determine the design power level.

I can fabricate a prop in 3 to 4 hours. It is not difficult. Just noisy shaping stainless blades with a grinder.

There is a Bolly boat prop that is not too bad for most applications. I think they cost AUD50 and are very strong and light, being made from carbon fibre.

Rick W

[spidennis]

I don't yet weld, so this commercially available prop sounds like a good start.

now I'll just have to figure out which one.
http://www.bolly.com.au/models/glasstwo.html

edit:
15 x 25 385x635 $55.00
Man power boat racing, a proven winner. Actually many of our carbon props are used for this purpose.

as for all my performance data I'll have to do some training first to get to an acceptable level so the numbers actually mean something. How do you train when you're not in your boat rick? a recumbent bike? that's what I was thinking of.

[spidennis]

I found this design software for the mac: "Bearboat Pro" (freeware)

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/22639

[Guest625101138]

I don't yet weld, so this commercially available prop sounds like a good start.

now I'll just have to figure out which one.
http://www.bolly.com.au/models/glasstwo.html

as for all my performance data I'll have to do some training first to get to an acceptable level so the numbers actually mean something. How do you train when you're not in your boat rick? a recumbent bike? that's what I was thinking of.

Look for the 15X25 "boat" prop.

I travel quite a lot and start climbing stairs around October. I will do that a little earlier this year. I also have a swing arm frame that is set up to lift a 10kg weight through 600mm with each stroke. I pedal this around 60 to 70 cpm.

Stairs are quite good if you have a few floors. Just walking up briskly is working at quite a high power level. A building I often stay in has 8 stories and I go up and down about 20 times in an hour. Usually staircases are rarely used by others so it is peaceful. Can get a little hot if it is not weel ventillated. Avoid lifts and elevators.

I also have a very steep hill near my house that I jog up and walk back down a few times. I try to find high power exercise rather than high impact. I do not jog at speed on the flat or down hill as I have had some ankle problems that I worry about if I jog.

As the races get closer I spend both days on the weekend on the water working up to about 70km a day.

The serious paddlers get up to 50km most week days before or after work and then longer runs on the weekend.

Rick W

[spidennis]

I'd imagine that when I got my seat/drive frame all built I could end up using it like a stationary bicycle?

and stairs? as kinda weird as it might sound to me, for where I live (at the beach) , yeah we got stairs here! (tall high rise buildings, condos.) I could try this out, but it's easier just to get water time (once my boat is built). but during the winter months when the weather is crappy, some indoor training will be just the thing I'll be looking for.

ok, speaking of training, it's 6am and time for my beach run. gonna beat the sun rise today!

[spidennis]

here's a pic of Carter Johnson during the 2007 Texas Water Safari, one of the races that I want to do. this is an example of the water that I'll have to get thru, intact of course. this brings up design questions for the outriggers, to fold up, or swing forward, or swing back? I'll also have to be able to portage my craft. then there's the question of the prop. It'll have to be raised to survive this but I still need propulsion thru these types of sections .... a back up paddle? and a seat adjustment? and ...

http://www.adventuresofgreg.com/HPB/2008_07_27_archive.html

[portacruise]

Hi, first time to post, though I have been reading this list for a few weeks. What do you think of having 2 boats? Maybe one for low water drought conditions which can be portaged easily and another for speed with high water conditions like Carter experienced?

Porta

[spidennis]

boats are like motorcycles, seems you can't have just one to do it all! but I do have a motorcycle that does much of what I do and that's what I want this boat to do. If I can get by the narrow skinny stuff at the beginning of the texas water safari the rest will be ok, the adirondack race has it's portage problems but I feel I can over come that easy enough. some trial and error will certainly be part of the course, and if you read the greg's adventures website he certainly had his fair share of tuning problems. I'm still open to all kinds of ideas but I think that rick's v14 design can get the job done for me. as for a possible around florida boat, well then I might have to do something a bit different. I can do overnight, or a few days with the v14 but I don't think I can do weeks worth and carry all my gear to live on.

[spidennis]

rick, do you think my outriggers should swing forward or to the back? I want to be able to paddle a kayak paddle when necessary when the outriggers are folded in. Having the extra floatation in the front might be a good thing when hitting a hole in the whitewater of the texas water safari? I'm still trying to picture this in my head when it comes time to portage ........

presently I'm really busy getting ready for my summer trip, but I at least want to duck tape a model together to see some geometries before I leave so I got some things to think about on my 2k miles worth of driving.

one more thing, are you on a mac? any suggestions on design software? (shareware stuff?) I might have to upgrade from my 17" G4 Powerbook into a intel powered mac notebook so I can run bootcamp or similar .....

[Guest625101138]

If the outriggers are pivoted for fore and aft movement then they could go either way.

You have somewhat opposing requirements here. Having the outriggers beside the hull will make it more difficult to place the boat on your shoulder. However to give sufficient initial stability to allow you to get moving with a paddle will mean the outriggers are set off the hull a little. I guess you could make their locking position variable to ensure they can be snugged into the hull but they will still make it more difficult to ballance the boat on your shoulder.

I use both Mac and Microsoft. The only drawing software on my Mac is Google Sketchup. Delftship is probably the best of the freeware for boat rendering. I think there is an earlier version (FreeShip) that will run on Mac but you would need to find someone who has tested it.

Rick W

[spidennis]

I think I've pretty much decided against folding up like this, at least having the alma tucked under on the side like this. when folded in they will still have to give stability, at least some.

http://www.sandslave.com/v14/foldingoutriggers/folded.jpg

http://www.sandslave.com/v14/foldingoutriggers/unfoldedbowviewsmall.jpg

http://www.sandslave.com/v14/foldingoutriggers/unfoldedsmall.jpg

http://www.sandslave.com/v14/gregsoutrigger.jpg

I just did a photoshop copy and paste to get an idea of what a forward outrigger arm would look like. without building a mock up I can't see if going from the seat mount to the rear mount would be better or if going from the seat mount forward to the drive mount would work better. whatever the case, the prop and drive axle will have to be raised while the outriggers are folded in and I'll have to be able to portage it, but not necessarily in that one configuration. I could have two modes, portage mode and rapids mode. Then there's the transportation modes, long haul and short haul. and then of course there's two different drive modes, prop mode and paddle (rapids/skinny water) mode.

http://www.sandslave.com/v14/dualarmoutriggersmall.jpg

[Guest625101138]

I think you have some interesting challenges. I expect it will take some trial and error to get the best result.

In an earlier version of my drive system I had a much more severe shaft curve and the shaft had a finite life of about 100km. I used to install a new shaft each day on the MM. On the longest day the shaft failed about 5km from the finish and I paddled to the finish. I managed 5kph with the paddle compared with 11kph with the prop. My biggest problem was steering while paddling.

The normally paddled craft has foot steering so this is something you need if you want to get reasonable results with a paddle.

Also the lowest drag hull has little inherent stability. The outiggers when collapsed will not offer much.

Rick W

[spidennis]

yup, I'm gonna have to play around with the positions of the outriggers to see what works. giving the design lots of ability for multiple configurations will be key come testing time.

I've been looking at the seat of greg's record breaking machine and how I might fabricate something like that.

Initially I'll just use aluminum tube using a tube bender with mesh wrapped around the aluminum frame.

for the hi tech curvy seat like greg's I was thinking about using a block of foam with a plywood backing, then carving out the foam until I had just the rough shape, mounting it on the boat and giving it some seat time, then fine tuning the shape as needed with more seat time. after I had the shape in the foam I could use that to shape the seat in carbon or whatever. anyway, it's any idea, but I got plenty to do before I get to this stage!

time to drop off my entry form into the mail box for this year's adirondack race and get to packing up my jeep for the long multi stage ride from texas to ny. I'm picking up another dirt bike in dallas, then a new all aluminum enclosed 6x12 trailer near chicago. I'm also bringing along my race bike so I can enter a few enduro events up in the ny/nj/pa area while I'm up there.

[spidennis]

I've decided against using a prop for the Adirondack Classic after actually completing the course as the top solo finisher in the open touring class this year. the course just has too many beaver dams, weeds, rocks and portages to use an adaptation of the v14. this year I used a Placid Boat Works "RapidFire", a 15' 25 lb pack canoe and a "knupac" portage device I made at the last minute. I'm still wondering if a v14 will work for the Texas water safari (tws) or not, but with the research I've come up with I'm now leaning towards other ideas, off the shelf ideas, such as a fast ocean kayak or a surf ski. Presently I'm leaning towards a surfski. for having just a single boat, this I believe be my best all around bet. I live in a place where a surfski can provide me the fitness that I want/need, I got the types of waters that are good for it. It will also work out for the adirondack classic, the tws and other texas river races. I will however be the first local to actually own a surf ski down here but back in the day when I moved here 20ish years ago I was the only one with a kayak and now they're everywhere, so just maybe they'll catch on? Regardless, I'm on a new path but the v14 idea won't be totally gone and will be looking for ways and places that it can be used. I have noticed though that many races won't allow for anything other than a single or double bladed paddle so that's a bit of a problem. oh well, a wing double bladed paddle is what I'll be getting used to for now. the surf skis that I'm looking at are the epic v10, huki s1x or s1r, Fenn Mako Millennium, Think EVO , but whatever I get (used) I'll be installing an over stern kick up rudder for the river races and not using the built in under stern rudder.

the Huki S1X:
http://huki.com/Bargains_images/s1xCoralSnake1.jpg


here's a few pics of my adirondack classic adventure:

http://www.sandslave.com/knupac/IMG_9526.jpg

http://www.sandslave.com/knupac/IMG_9530.jpg

http://www.sandslave.com/knupac/IMG_9236a.jpg

http://www.sandslave.com/knupac/IMG_9239a.jpg

http://www.sandslave.com/knupac/IMG_7767.jpg

[spidennis]

I just got back from watching the entire Texas Water Safari (tws) and I've been thinking about just how I can come up with a design to do this race.

What is needed is really 3 boats, one for the upper river sections, one for the flatwater and one for the bay crossing, all wrapped up into some funky kind of boat.

Presently I'm leaning towards a pure paddle boat at first, but with plans to add a peddle prop drive.

I now have a surfski, a Fenn Mako, 19' x 19", and it shows me just what tippy really is! I am not at all comfortable with this yet.

I also have a 17' x 21.5" plastic sea kayak, and I used this for a long trip this past may, the entire length of the Texas Coast, approx 400 miles.

What I found is I'd like some kind of cross between the two. A wider and more stable surfski that has hatches for storage for camping and gear. I want a boat at home here on south padre where I can train in both the bay and gulf, and to use it on the tws and adk90.

I've seen a new surfski prototype that has a removable hard cockpit cover, so it can be a sit-on-top surfski, but with the cover on and using a spray skirt it can be used like a sea kayak in the colder conditions.

I'd also like to have, when I add the peddle power gear, is to have the trimaran configuration like the v14 or like the Huki outrigger.

For the tws, for the various conditions, I'd like to be able to use a single blade, a double blade or peddle power, all quickly changeable as needed.

Am I asking too much? I don't think so. I've seen various boats with features that I like, I just gotta roll my own and see how it turns out.

[portacruise]

Sounds like a good plan, Dennis. Switching to your legs for power would seem to be an advantage of not overworking your arms. If you can jettison the extra weight of a leg power unit when not needed and add back when needed, that would be great. Assuming the rules allow that.

There's some guys on this list that do that race, if you didn't know already:

http://www.texaskayakfisherman.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=146241

Porta

I just got back from watching the entire Texas Water Safari (tws) and I've been thinking about just how I can come up with a design to do this race.

What is needed is really 3 boats, one for the upper river sections, one for the flatwater and one for the bay crossing, all wrapped up into some funky kind of boat.

Presently I'm leaning towards a pure paddle boat at first, but with plans to add a peddle prop drive.

I now have a surfski, a Fenn Mako, 19' x 19", and it shows me just what tippy really is! I am not at all comfortable with this yet.

I also have a 17' x 21.5" plastic sea kayak, and I used this for a long trip this past may, the entire length of the Texas Coast, approx 400 miles.

What I found is I'd like some kind of cross between the two. A wider and more stable surfski that has hatches for storage for camping and gear. I want a boat at home here on south padre where I can train in both the bay and gulf, and to use it on the tws and adk90.

I've seen a new surfski prototype that has a removable hard cockpit cover, so it can be a sit-on-top surfski, but with the cover on and using a spray skirt it can be used like a sea kayak in the colder conditions.

I'd also like to have, when I add the peddle power gear, is to have the trimaran configuration like the v14 or like the Huki outrigger.

For the tws, for the various conditions, I'd like to be able to use a single blade, a double blade or peddle power, all quickly changeable as needed.

Am I asking too much? I don't think so. I've seen various boats with features that I like, I just gotta roll my own and see how it turns out.

[spidennis]

thanks porta,
I didn't know about that link ...
and I added it to my thread on paddle24/7

As for equipment or anything,
it must all be taken at the start.
the only thing you can get along the way is ice and water,
and that is ONLY from YOUR Team Captain.
You can't even touch another competitor
or they will be DQ-ed !

so .....
everything must be on the boat in the beginning ....
though I could leave stuff behind along the way.

website for the race:
http://www.texaswatersafari.org/

forum for the race:
http://paddle24seven.com/

[spidennis]

I'm gonna keep adding stuff I find interesting to this thread.
It will help me keep all the ideas together in one place ......
and it may help in someone else in getting some of their ideas.

a Huki surfski, as a trimaran, with peddle power:
http://www.humanpoweredboats.com/Photos/Individuals/PedalWaa/PedalWaa.htm

http://www.humanpoweredboats.com/Photos/Individuals/PedalWaa/PedalWaa_2.jpg

and a list of human powered boats with pics:
http://www.humanpoweredboats.com/index.htm