Seeking Assistance

[Leopluridean]

First of all, hello everyone. I'm new here.

I'm interested in building for myself, a small sail boat.
Let me make it known upfront, that I am a complete newbie to this.
I don't know anything about variables in building, such as which hull types provide the best steering, how much weight different shapes displace, buoyancy etc. On top of that, I have never sailed!

Anyway, my goal here is to make a boat that can hold preferably two people.
I'd prefer to use cheap materials since I'm on an extremely tight budget.

Can anyone help get me started here?

What kind of boat style should I go for, what materials should be used and so forth.

[alan white]

Will you be trailering or car-topping/truck-bedding? Have you ever sailed before? Do you own some tools? Have experience in woodworking? Space to build?
Narrow your options down by asking yourself those kinds of questions. Once you make those options known here, you'll get plenty of help.
Welcome to the forum. Always great to see another first time builder arrive.

[Leopluridean]

I have never sailed!

Also, I've got a huge array of tools at my disposal. I live on a farm and have more than enough room to build. I've done plenty of woodworking. The only things holding me back are lack of know how and materials. After I know what materials I'll need and what to do with them, I can get started.

I'm looking for something to put in the back of a truck/van or on top. Preferably around 12 feet I guess? Will that be big enough for two?

[Ike]

I would go for a set of plans or kit. There are lots of them on line. Many are very easy to build using simple stitch and glue techniques. try Bateau.com. Chesapeake Light Craft, Glen-L or any of the other on-line sellers of kits and plans. This will reduce the learning curve to just the building part of it. Once you get it built you can then concern yourself with learning to sail.

[Leopluridean]

Thanks for the URL, but I still don't know what kind of boat would best suit me. Suggestions?

[marshmat]

Hi Leopluridean,

Also, I've got a huge array of tools at my disposal. I live on a farm and have more than enough room to build. I've done plenty of woodworking. The only things holding me back are lack of know how and materials. After I know what materials I'll need and what to do with them, I can get started.
Good, good. You know how to handle wood, you have space, you have motivation and excitement. :)

I don't know anything about variables in building, such as which hull types provide the best steering, how much weight different shapes displace, buoyancy etc. On top of that, I have never sailed!

Anyway, my goal here is to make a boat that can hold preferably two people.
I'd prefer to use cheap materials since I'm on an extremely tight budget.
....
What kind of boat style should I go for, what materials should be used and so forth.
OK, so you're new to sailing but already love the idea of it. You don't want to spend too much money- a true sailor already. (Boatyards love motoryacht owners and hate sailors- one spends like there's no tomorrow, the other is notoriously thrifty.)

But you don't know where to start. So, let's see what appeals to you:

Do you want to sail for a few hours at a time, or a few days (either sleeping on board, or camping on shore)?
What kind of waters are near you? Protected inland lakes with not much wind, or maybe an inlet or big lake with some substantial waves, or would you be sailing in coastal areas?
Is a trailer a possibility? You say you might want to carry it on the roof of your truck/van- many folks do this, but it does restrict your choices.

Now, on to some suggestions that *MIGHT* fall in the category of something you'd be interested in (it's hard to say for sure until you know what you plan to do with it). All of these design shops have a good variety of small, relatively inexpensive boats. Browsing their catalogues might prove inspiring, but don't jump to a decision too quickly...
Phil Bolger & Harold Payson - http://www.instantboats.com/boats.html
Glen-L - https://www.boatdesigns.com/departments.asp?dept=12
Bateau.com - http://bateau.com/categories.php?cat=28

[Leopluridean]

Since this will be my first boat (more than likely not my last) I think I can settle for a one man sized boat.

I'd like to have the option to sleep on the boat (luxurious accommodations aren't a necessity) just so long as I can lay out fully stretched as if on a cot.

I'm in the state of Delaware, so it's either gonna be inland lakes and large ponds or coastal waters and I would like to be able to enjoy both.

Trailer sadly is not a possibility. I can remove the backseats in my van and have some of the boat hanging out the back if need be, or I could possibly put it on top of the van.

[alan white]

There are many identifiable types of sailboats. Many in the smaller sizes between 7 ft and 16 ft are suitable for rowing as well as sailing, and even motering with a small outboard.
As with all things in life, you have to give up something to get something. A sailing dinghy that will plane is faster than a non-planing type, but a non-planing type is more efficient if rowed.
Will you want to row often? Will you possibly be using a motor? Is pure sailing what you want?
Each design will favor some emphasis.
12 ft is a good length to carry a few hundred lbs. Maybe 5 ft in beam, a centerboard, with jib or without. Some designs, as said, will jump up and plane with enough wind and a hiked-out sailor. Those tend to be wider aft, which isn't the ideal shape for rowing, but by no means necessarily sluggish.
Light weight means about 120 lbs if 12 ft long. Light enough to get on and off a truck bed. There are literally thousands of designs in that category.
So question one is whether to emphasize all purpose (displacement hull) or pure sailing (planing hull). Next, capacity for two adults and gear (400 lbs, e.g.. Then, rig type. Rig, meaning sail setup, and that involves what type of sail (gaff, marconi, sprit, lug, and so forth, and then whether a jib is desired.
Decked or not decked? A forward deck makes for a dryer boat, something of importance if sailing on salt water a mile out.
Then there's building method, which will likely be plywood with some epoxy technology to a greater or lesser degree (even within the same design).

[PAR]

Before you select a design, go to the local water ways and beg a ride on as many different sailboats as you can. If there's a sailing club, call them, find out when they meet and show up. They're always looking for extra bodies to crew and you learn a huge amount in a short time.

Sailing is like cars, some like fast and scary, others need a mini van to carry all their stuff. You don't know what you need or what you desire yet, so lets get some basics established before you go off building. You can just as easy build a boat you'll hate to sail as on you'll love. You will not know, until you try it out. Hell, you might find you can't stand the stuff and are glad you got it out of your system before you built a boat. In all likelihood, you'll quickly develop some personal preferences based on the experiences and new sailing friends you generate. These things will help define what you'll build. Now, get out there a find a ride.

[Leopluridean]

Okay. I've been looking up some of these terms I don't understand.

Since the primary function of the boat is going to be sailing, I'm definitely going to want a planing hull. I can still row in case of emergency with a planing hull, it just won't be as efficient.

I would like a Jib since from what I've read it can help with not only catching the wind currents for movement, but also with the steering.

I've figured out that a centerboard is a retractable keel and it's required to move in directions other than downwind. I'm definitely going to want a centerboard.

Beam took me a while. The Width of the boat at it's widest point. A 5ft beam sounds good to me.

The stern is the rear. Aft means towards the back so yeah, wider in the stern sounds good since I want the boat's primary function to be sailing.

I did some research and I stumbled across the Bermuda/Bermudian Rig. From what I've read it's supposed to be pretty fast.

Can someone state the advantages and disadvantages of using certain rigs over others?

Forward deck also sounds like a must.

So in a nutshell:

-Boat primarily for sailing.
-Between 7 and 12 feet in length.
-Planing Hull.
-A 5ft beam (unless someone can suggest something better).
-Wide Stern.
-Forward Deck.
-Bermuda/Bermudian Rig (unless someone can suggest something better).
As I was writing this post I found out this is also known as a Marconi Rig.


How does that sound?

[alan white]

Okay. I've been looking up some of these terms I don't understand.

Since the primary function of the boat is going to be sailing, I'm definitely going to want a planing hull. I can still row in case of emergency with a planing hull, it just won't be as efficient.

I would like a Jib since from what I've read it can help with not only catching the wind currents for movement, but also with the steering.

I've figured out that a centerboard is a retractable keel and it's required to move in directions other than downwind. I'm definitely going to want a centerboard.

Beam took me a while. The Width of the boat at it's widest point. A 5ft beam sounds good to me.

The stern is the rear. Aft means towards the back so yeah, wider in the stern sounds good since I want the boat's primary function to be sailing.

I did some research and I stumbled across the Bermuda/Bermudian Rig. From what I've read it's supposed to be pretty fast.

Can someone state the advantages and disadvantages of using certain rigs over others?

Forward deck also sounds like a must.

So in a nutshell:

-Boat primarily for sailing.
-Between 7 and 12 feet in length.
-Planing Hull.
-A 5ft beam (unless someone can suggest something better).
-Wide Stern.
-Forward Deck.
-Bermuda/Bermudian Rig (unless someone can suggest something better).
As I was writing this post I found out this is also known as a Marconi Rig.


How does that sound?

Sounds like you won't have a problem finding plans.
Rig types----- each rig type was developed to answer a particular need and in recent years there has been an emphasis on bermudan sails. It's easy to see why. The rig works well with spreaders at a level about halfway up the mast, which means the mast itself can be taller and yet thinner than most other rigs. This in turn translates into a longer leading edge to the sail, and long leading edges with thin masts (made possible by the spreaders) are very efficient at producing drive.
The downside is that the bermudan high aspect sail needs a more deeply-ballasted keel, or a wider beam, or both compared to some more old-fashioned rigs like the gaff, the lug, squaresail, etc..
These are all things you can read about, but my feeling is you will find most designs out there have bermudan sails.

[Leopluridean]

I've found a few plans that I think match what I'm looking for.

This (http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/gl12.html) is probably my favorite.

Here are some others I was looking at.

Bullseye (http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/bullseye.html)
Topper (http://www.glen-l.com/designs/sailboat/topper.html)

I think all of these have keels as opposed to centerboards though. Can someone confirm? I definitely want a centerboard unless someone can convince me of why a keel would work better.

[alan white]

No keels. They have daggerboards, which are simpler and cheaper to build, a knife-like board that is slid down and through while a centerboard swings down. The daggerboard is removable with one hand. The centerboard is assembled into the boat.
Functionally the centerboard and the daggerboard do the same thing. Practically speaking, the centerboard is self-tending, in that when it meets an underwater obstacle, it simply rides over it, or at least absorbs the impact softly. The dagger hits hard, wherapon you grab it and pull it up and hope no damage was done. Usually, there's no damage to speak of. Many popular board boats like the Sunfish use a dagger for simplicity and more foot room, lower weight, etc. Lightweight boats are perfect for daggers because they don't have enough inertia to break the case or the board.

[Leopluridean]

That's not bad at all. That means I can swap out different sized dagger boards.

[gonzo]

Reading your comments about prefering a planing hull and the jib being necessary for steering, it shows your total lackl of knowledge about boats. Choosing a high performance design for cruising and learning doesn't make much sense. As Par said, try going out fora sail first. Specifications like a 12 foot length will limit your beam to 3.8 feet or so, and that at the gunwale. At the bottom it will be less.

[Leopluridean]

Can you help me understand how it works?

From my understanding if you have a planing hull wave drag is diminished and you have less skin friction on the hull.

As far as the Jib goes, never did I say that it was "necessary" for steering. I said that it aided steering from what I've read. I know that it is not the sole purpose of the jib.

I would like a Jib since from what I've read it can help with not only catching the wind currents for movement, but also with the steering.

[lewisboats]

Build a simple, free, proven design like Summer Breeze and go out and get wet! after a season or two then you might be able to make an informed decision about what you want as a next step in the process. Besides...the building is most of the fun anyways ;) You can also try out various rigs and find out which suits your tastes better.

Steve

[PAR]

The purchase and study of a few books could help with your decision making process a fair bit.

What you really need is sea time. Nothing short of actual experience will really help. Reading about how a boat works will offer the principles, fundamentals and understanding of basic systems operation, but without actually doing it, you'll be much like a welder that's read all they can about welding, but have never actually pulled a bead of molten metal. The novice welder may be quite informed about how things work, but his first passes with the equipment will produce some pretty lousy welds. Just like sailing, you have to "feel" what's going on.

Find a ride, get some sea time and begin the process of establishing your preferences for rig type, hull type, etc. Time aboard is the real teacher.

[Tarheel]

Might I suggest you go to Nags Head,North Carolina and rent a sailboat on the bay.You will have a great time at the beach,and the bay is very forgiving.
They used to have small catamarans or sunfish. Both of these can be sailed and you can learn alot about how things work.
Then if you want to learn about building a boat for yourself,I would definitely check into the Wooden Boat Schools.

[hansp77]

In your situation (of wants and knowledge) I would advise just going out and buying a decent little used sailing dinghy. Watch your local craigslist or ebay or whatever, grab something at a good price in good condition that you can re-sell without having to restore or pour money into it, and use it to learn to sail and learn what sort of boat you really want. Probably not best to go straight to a 'performance' dinghy, just something that is good and easy to learn on (it will still be fun, but will be more forgiving).
Keep it while you build your knowledge and skills, and then while you build the one you really want- in the meantime you could be sailing within the next few weeks up until you launch your new hand built boat. Then sell it, even at a reasonable loss, probably still only leaving you out of pocket less than the cost of hiring a boat for a couple of days.
Way too many options of boat acquisition for the purposes of sailing seem to involve extended periods of foreplay. I speak from experience here:rolleyes:. Just get a boat and get out there. if you really like it you will soon figure out what you really want your first investment of time and money to go into- without more knowledge and experience it would just be guesswork and unlikely to lead to the happiest result.

Also, I don't doubt that the cheapest option would be to just buy a bargain of a used boat in good condition- especially in the economy at the moment.
You could no doubt get a good little 10-12 foot ply dinghy ready to sail for a few hundred bucks- this may include many little extras such as lifejackets, oars, and who knows whatelse. Plywood, epoxy, timber, sails, rigging, blocks, lines, etc, etc.. all add up in costs very quickly when building from scratch (though much of it can of course be sourced and scrounged second hand for cheaper).

I always liked this guys write up of how much you can get out of a small sailing dinghy,
http://www.btinternet.com/~sail/mirror.htm (http://www.btinternet.com/%7Esail/mirror.htm)

P.S. As suggested, going down to your local area where clubs and such sail and getting a free ride would be a great start. More than likely you will soon find a bargain for sale through someone there as well.

P.P.S. I am not against you or anyone else building your own boat in any way.

[AmbitiousAmatur]

https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=435

I too am an aspiring first time boat builder who probably becomes overly ambitious at times. I have been researching techniques and plans for over 12 years and need to just bite the bullet so to speak and jump in. I read once in Wooden Boat magazine that the first step is to spend 8 hours on a Saturday and get your first boat in the water. I think keeping it simple in shape and complexity is good advice for first timers like ourselves. Glen-l sells plans, kits and all of the necessary supplies. I know that sailing classes are offered right here in Guntersville, AL for very reasonable rates so I am sure that you can find a reasonable school in Delaware. Good luck to you my friend. I hope to see pictures of your first launch soon and hopefully I will be able to share with you pics of my first launch within a year as well. Don't get distracted by the 49' reliant on Glen-L's site. Man that is nice.