Boatbuilding Price Question

[ohare]

Im in the process of finding someone to hire to build a boat for me.The boat Im wanting built is a 40 foot fishing boat.All of the quotes Ive gotten have been well over $200K One yard told me they charge an average rate of $2500 per foot plus labor.Does a price of well over $200K sound about correct for a 40 foot custom design fully loaded and functional wooden (or possibly fiberglass.Havnt decided yet) fishing boat?

Thanks

[alan white]

The price sounds right to me. If i were in your shoes, however, I'd look for someone who would lead a crew who has the talent and reputation to carry the job through. Pay him by the hour or by salary, rent the space, and keep the profit. At worst youi'll still get off cheaper than a total hands-off contract.
Nowadays there are a lot of out-of-work or pretty hungry guys with enough knowhow to efficiently run such a project.
You'll likely save a third by being involved this way.
I'd also hire a surveyor to inspect the construction in stages.

[Ad Hoc]

normally priced on 'per tonne' of ally, not per foot...unless the yard if familiar with building only one type of vessel.

[McFarlane]

I would say that sounds to cheap to build a 40 ft fishing boat is this price finished, 2 new engines will cost you 40 to 50k each, I would have thought double it and add another 100k, would be better to buy a second hand 40 footer with a nice deep V hull and spend 100k on it making it how you want it, at least you already have the hull and engines, and a structure to build off. I would say this is the smarter option.
Cheers
Macka

[apex1]

I would like to agree with Ad Hoc (as usual) it sounds strange to make a price per length, we (boatbuilders) usually give a quotation per weight.
A 40´fisherboat with (usually) one engine built in US seems to be about right at 200k for me though. I could make it in wood epoxy (much stronger than wood or glass) for a bit less than that, abroad. say 15% to 20%, `cos usually we are about that marge under the US builders (incl. transport to US port).

Macka your calculation is relly a joy to read, where did you learn that? And who told you that a conversion is cheaper than a newbuild?

Regards
Richard

[McFarlane]

Gday apex :D

[ohare]

I want to thank everyone for the replies.Ive called several different folks and it seems the prices do vary greatly depending on the builder.I got a quote today from a yard saying could run as high as $300K+ with a new motor and other quoted mid to high two hundreds.As far as per foot vs per tonage they seem to be slip about half and half.I think I may just take McFarlanes advice and buy a used boat and do whatever work if any work is needed myself.:eek: ;)

[apex1]

I want to thank everyone for the replies.Ive called several different folks and it seems the prices do vary greatly depending on the builder.I got a quote today from a yard saying could run as high as $300K+ with a new motor and other quoted mid to high two hundreds.As far as per foot vs per tonage they seem to be slip about half and half.I think I may just take McFarlanes advice and buy a used boat and do whatever work if any work is needed myself.:eek: ;)

Naturally could run above 300k$ and above 550k$ too, depending on the yard and equipment.
But 200k$ is about fair, assuming the boat is not "Yacht" furnished and equipped.

Take care, buying, converting and refurbishing a boat!
It sounds nice and sensible at a first glimpse. But usually it is´nt. Ask PAR, one of the most experienced members here in boat restoration and repairs, he will tell you the plain truth behind the idea of conversions and refurbishing!

Anyway all the best for your task.

Regards
Richard

[Ad Hoc]

Don't forget, employ a professional to survey the boat first before you even consider buying a second hand boat. Spending $100k's is not small beer!

[rasorinc]

Go with a Wood/epoxy build or re-build. Stay away from fiberglass. You have rough water off your coast and wood done right is far stronger and requires less flotation. I do not see 40-50 K per engine though. I think you can find decent diesel engines for that size boat at around $20,000.00 each plus trannys, shafts and props.

[apex1]

Go with a Wood/epoxy build or re-build. Stay away from fiberglass. You have rough water off your coast and wood done right is far stronger and requires less flotation. I do not see 40-50 K per engine though. I think you can find decent diesel engines for that size boat at around $20,000.00 each plus trannys, shafts and props.

Stan, nobody sees 40-50k per engine (accept one), you´re about right at 20k for a good one if twins are the question. I would say the usual single (a bigger one at M1 rating) should be about 40k$ incl all the pomp and whistle.

Ad Hoc, nobody said 100.00 (accept one), and that was a statement based on



.
nothing

we do not know what he is going to install on that boat!?

Regards
Richard

[Ad Hoc]

Apex1
"....we do not know what he is going to install on that boat...."

er.. yes, quiet right, and most obvious really!

[rasorinc]

I would go with a high quality single diesel engine and use one of these Hi Thrust engines as a kicker engine to get home. I saw a 30-32' fishing boat at Newport Oregon with a 9.9 hp yamaha hi thrust on the transom and he told me "that sucker will push me at 10 mph, pushes me right up the river"
From 8 hp to 60 hp Yamaha is the only one I know of that makes the Hi Thrust engines.http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/products/subcatspecs/4/specs.aspx This would save you $$$$$$$$

[apex1]

Apex1
"....we do not know what he is going to install on that boat...."

er.. yes, quiet right, and most obvious really!


Jahh, most obvious, but we are here to learn, to fail, and sometimes to enjoy each other.

But as long as we are focussed on the enjoyable side I did (all of your posts by so far) more than I deserve.;)
Regards
Richard

[ohare]

It seems the $300-$500K is a safe bet on price,so with that said I think Im just gonna go with a used boat I do believe.Just out of curiosity does anybody know an average yard fee for storage and working on your own boat?Ive heard some yards charge a daily fee per foot for working on your own boat as well as a monthly fee.

[Ad Hoc]

Richard
"..But as long as we are focussed on the enjoyable side I did (all of your posts by so far) .."
Im not sure everyone on here would agree with your assesment of all my posts. But yes, we constantly learn everyday, or at least should do!

[apex1]

Gday apex :D

have´nt seen that, but is a response I was aware of. Thanks for your valuable contribution mate!
And next time you talk someone into something, share with us please! We need a few laughs.

[rasorinc]

Find an enclosed warehouse. You will have to transport it there but if Washington prices are near Oregons figure $300.00 a month plus electric and heat. Now you have the right environment to do your changes and repairs and be warm doing them. Todays market is good for the consumer and transport close in should be less than $2,000.00

[apex1]

Richard
"..But as long as we are focussed on the enjoyable side I did (all of your posts by so far) .."
Im not sure everyone on here would agree with your assesment of all my posts. But yes, we constantly learn everyday, or at least should do!

Are we asking for "everyone" to agree? I´m fine with the few Pro´s like Guillermo, you, Par, to mention some.
And I do learn nearly everytime I contribute (or better, got corrected by pro´s), thats what we are looking for!?

[Ad Hoc]

apex1/richard

"..Are we asking for "everyone" to agree?.."
No, I certainly don't, nor does it bother me. I just provide my own personal opinion/advise accordingly. Whether it is "palatable" consumption is not part of a design brief. Only cost and performance! Personal attacks etc for being anonymous etc are totally irrelevant....only the question at hand is important, not my gallery!

[apex1]

Yepp, cost and performance..... a harder issue these days. Even I have to stretch sometimes in some cases.
And palatable... I was never, I like to be frank (sometimes unpolite), `cos I cannot remember my lies of yesterday ´till tommorow.

[Ad Hoc]

pleased to meet you Frank ;)

[McFarlane]

Gday apex
A 40 HP diesel engine in Australia is 15k, A 300HP diesel is up towards 60k now if your a fisherman you dont want to putt out to the shelf at 4 to 6 knots. I would say my original pricing was correct as you have stated in one of your quotes. You cant teach an old dog new tricks can you apex.

[rasorinc]

Don't buy your engines in AU. I can ship engines from Portland, Oregon, USA
for $500.00 each so my estimate still stands. I only post here to give proper
and current advise. I seek no business. You are way high on your costs. Thats all--no disrepect intended. Best, Stan

[McFarlane]

No disrespect taken rasorinc :D

[Neil Marine]

Im in the process of finding someone to hire to build a boat for me.The boat Im wanting built is a 40 foot fishing boat.All of the quotes Ive gotten have been well over $200K One yard told me they charge an average rate of $2500 per foot plus labor.Does a price of well over $200K sound about correct for a 40 foot custom design fully loaded and functional wooden (or possibly fiberglass.Havnt decided yet) fishing boat?

Thanks

Dear Ohare,

I represent one of the leading boat builders in Asia and I believe we maybe able to provide you with a price competitive solution due to the relatively low labour costs we have. Many of our clients in the UK, Netherlands and Norway have benefited tremendously due to these costs benefits. If you are interested please feel free to contact me.

Profile Snapshot

Neil Marine - One of the Biggest Boat builders in SE Asia

Neil Marine in Sri Lanka has been in the forefront of boat building for the past 40 years and we have built over 35,000 boats over the years. Our boat yard is ISO 9000:2000, 5S & Lloyd's certified.

Our exports map consists of the Netherlands, UK, Norway, Mid East, Africa, Maldives and many other countries. We use world renowned Naval Architects from the UK &
Norway and we have the ability build to customer requirements and specifications.

We also build Specialized boats for coast guards, Navy and rescue & research operations for international clients.

www.neilmarine.com

Email: roshantha@neilmarine.com - Group director

Few pictures

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/fiberglass-composite-boat-building/one-biggest-boat-builders-se-asia-neil-marine-sri-lanka-25356.html

[Ad Hoc]

I was looking recently for a good yard in Asia to quote for a 53m and 38m crew boat we have designed. Didn't know about you guys....i'll keep you in mind for future reference.

[Neil Marine]

I was looking recently for a good yard in Asia to quote for a 53m and 38m crew boat we have designed. Didn't know about you guys....i'll keep you in mind for future reference.

Thanks Ad Hoc,

We have been around for a long time and have been dealing with partners in the countries mentioned however now we are looking to expand that more and get the word out through forums and other electronic media.

You can visit one of our strategic business partners at the following link just for some info and product pictures.

http://www.menkenmaritiem.nl/en/menken-maritiem.html

Thanks for the consideration and we are always open for new business ventures so please feel free to contact us.

Regards,

Roshantha

[apex1]

Gday apex
A 40 HP diesel engine in Australia is 15k, A 300HP diesel is up towards 60k now if your a fisherman you dont want to putt out to the shelf at 4 to 6 knots. I would say my original pricing was correct as you have stated in one of your quotes. You cant teach an old dog new tricks can you apex.

Sorry Macka, Ohare did not ask for prices in Australia nor in Burma to say that first. And I did not try to teach an old dog, I corrected a completely wrong statement. And yours above again is wrong because it is not related to the original question.
We do´nt let fisherman putter around at 4 to 6 knots be shure.
Regards
Richard

[rysa]

im going to have to agree with McFarlane here, it would be much cheaper and easier to buy a second hand boat and spend 100k on it to make it your own. to get a new 40 foot boat for 200k i cant imagine that the quality of the finished product to be any good at all. by buying a second hand boat and doing it up you will still get the boat you want, thats the way to go for sure.:D

[apex1]

im going to have to agree with McFarlane here, it would be much cheaper and easier to buy a second hand boat and spend 100k on it to make it your own. to get a new 40 foot boat for 200k i cant imagine that the quality of the finished product to be any good at all. by buying a second hand boat and doing it up you will still get the boat you want, thats the way to go for sure.:D

Hello and welcome here rysa.
Why should´nt he get a good boat at 200k$ ? There are many excellent made 40´boats on the water which have cost less. And how do you know (what nobody else here knows) what the real demand is, and that a second hand boat is the better choice?
Maybe you have overlooked something in the first posts?

Regards
Richard

[PAR]

Dollar for foot, your choices in that class of vessel are metal or GRP. 40' is about the cut off point where wooden (in one of the many different methods) becomes less viable as a build material, in terms of weight, strength, maintenance, resale value, insurance, etc.

Depending on how specific your requirements are a custom may be necessary, though many 40' metal and GRP hulls are currently available, some quite cheaply. I know of a 39' (wooden) bill boat (swordfish) that has a low hours (less then 500) Caterpillar diesel, 4 year old A/C unit, working chillers, rig and gear, etc. and you can have it for less then 40K. This is a working boat, in good condition (I personally caulked it's bottom 3 years ago). The owner's wife has cancer and he's up a creek for money. There are deals everywhere.

Fishing fleets around the world are folding up, the boats are auctioned off or dragged to the land fill. The market is buyer ripe at the moment.

A full up custom for 200K sounds like a pretty good deal. I'd avoid the western side of the big puddle to your left, as far as builders. A lot of less then scrupulous folks building real crap over there, many of which can't come into the country without lots of additional "upgrades", which in itself is sufficient enough of a commentary on their efforts. There are some exceptions to this rule, but not many.

In the end you need to refine you desires, develop a "wish list" and start doing some leg work, if interested in a conversion, bare hull or remodel.

Each yard will have various rates for a "dirty space", where you can work. Some don't permit it at all, other then minor stuff like replacing a cleat. Other marinas, known as "working" yards, will have good facilities, tool rentals, even skilled labor for hire. Which one? Who knows, but you can do some leg work and check out the local yards.

[peter radclyffe]

It seems the $300-$500K is a safe bet on price,so with that said I think Im just gonna go with a used boat I do believe.Just out of curiosity does anybody know an average yard fee for storage and working on your own boat?Ive heard some yards charge a daily fee per foot for working on your own boat as well as a monthly fee.

can you tell us what gear you want on your boat, is it a displacement hull, what tanks, what systems, what electronics,is there a certain engine you want , if you get a used boat all the time you spend removing old construction is wasted money, you have to price this in, yes old hulls are cheaper initially, but then you have an old hull, & generally if its older than 15-20 years its a lot of maintanence, & you lose your resale value, i'm not presuming you dont know all this, but any quote is a wild number without specifics

[rysa]

Hello and welcome here rysa.
Why should´nt he get a good boat at 200k$ ? There are many excellent made 40´boats on the water which have cost less. And how do you know (what nobody else here knows) what the real demand is, and that a second hand boat is the better choice?
Maybe you have overlooked something in the first posts?

Regards
Richard

its a pleasure to be here richard,
all im saying is that $200k seems far to cheap for a quality, custom made, 40 foot fishing vessel. you yourself said that costs could exeed $550k, this is more than twice the price you have just stated!! even Ohare who is the one looking to buy this vessel has found that $300k-$500k is a more realistic price. now if someone has $200-$250 to spend on a boat then these realistic prices of $300-$500 are out of that persons price range. making the 2nd hand boat a much better option.
im not saying go out and buy any old boat just because you can afford it, still do your reasearch and buy the right for the application, in this case a fishing boat that can handle a bit of chop.
as par has said fishing fleets around the world are folding and auctioning off their boats, so you will be able to pick up a good 2nd hand boat for a really good price.

i don't see why you are so against a 2nd hand boat richard, it will cost the buyer less to get something better thats a couple of years old, yet has nothing wrong with it. its that simple.

[PAR]

I'm fairly confidant that Richard is asserting, rightly so that a used boat will cost nearly as much as a new or slightly used boat, once all is said and done.

Unless the owner is especially skilled in a number of the aspects of assembling, building, wiring, plumbing, electrical, hydraulics, problem solving, fabricating, welding, 'glassing, etc. then a "Fix 'er upper" isn't a wise choice.

This isn't what I or others would suggest. With a little leg work (okay maybe a lot to find the right boat) they may find a fine deal on a reasonably well equipped boat, with most if not all of the gear they need. Some upgrades, maybe some repairs and their off to the happy hunting grounds.

Considering the current market any 500K price tag could be offered a cash deal for 1/2 with likely takers being the rule, rather then the exception. This brings a whole new line of vessels into view from the buyer's perspective.

[apex1]

rysa
I am not against a second hand boat, just against wild guessing. And when I say cost could exceed 550k that does not mean 200k is far to low a price! It all depends on too many factors we still do´nt know!

PAR in this case I have to disagree (unusually) with one of your statements. In my opinion the 40´to 50´range fits the wood epoxy method perfectly. And we produce very competitive in that range. I must agree though that wood epoxy has not the reputation it deserves, in the US, so resale value might be a issue.
Regards
Richard

[PAR]

In yachts I'd agree that wood works in the size range, but not working vessels that need much stouter construction. Weight and maintenance become issues. This is particularly true of fishing vessels, where bashing into docks, over loading holds and lugging a overly burdened boat through rough conditions can be norms, not exceptions.

It's at the boarder line, but If I was contracted to design a fishing vessel of this size, metal (preferably alloy, if the client can afford it) would be my first choice, GRP second, wood a distant third.

[apex1]

Paul, you say all the thread was related to a commercial vessel? I could´nt build a commercial boat, and would´nt like to do! So, was I riding the wrong horse here?
Regards
Richard

[alan white]

You are in a reasonably mild climate in the Washington area (regardless of whether DC or the state). If it were me, I'd construct a temporary building on either my own lot or a rented lot. the cost is low and the materials reclaimable. A yard will charge quite a bit more, enough to cause you to consider another option.
There are also other choices. In this economy a lot of owners of commercial space are anxious to make a deal as they've lost their paying tenant.

[PAR]

I'm not sure Richard, he mentioned fishing boat, which I assumed was a working craft. I could easily be mistaken.

[peter radclyffe]

Dollar for foot, your choices in that class of vessel are metal or GRP. 40' is about the cut off point where wooden (in one of the many different methods) becomes less viable as a build material, in terms of weight, strength, maintenance, resale value, insurance, etc.

Depending on how specific your requirements are a custom may be necessary, though many 40' metal and GRP hulls are currently available, some quite cheaply. I know of a 39' (wooden) bill boat (swordfish) that has a low hours (less then 500) Caterpillar diesel, 4 year old A/C unit, working chillers, rig and gear, etc. and you can have it for less then 40K. This is a working boat, in good condition (I personally caulked it's bottom 3 years ago). The owner's wife has cancer and he's up a creek for money. There are deals everywhere.

Fishing fleets around the world are folding up, the boats are auctioned off or dragged to the land fill. The market is buyer ripe at the moment.

A full up custom for 200K sounds like a pretty good deal. I'd avoid the western side of the big puddle to your left, as far as builders. A lot of less then scrupulous folks building real crap over there, many of which can't come into the country without lots of additional "upgrades", which in itself is sufficient enough of a commentary on their efforts. There are some exceptions to this rule, but not many.

In the end you need to refine you desires, develop a "wish list" and start doing some leg work, if interested in a conversion, bare hull or remodel.

Each yard will have various rates for a "dirty space", where you can work. Some don't permit it at all, other then minor stuff like replacing a cleat. Other marinas, known as "working" yards, will have good facilities, tool rentals, even skilled labor for hire. Which one? Who knows, but you can do some leg work and check out the local yards.
THIS 39 FT BOAT IS A BARGAIN , buy it now

[PAR]

If I had 40K I didn't know what to do with . . . hell I know of much better deals then this.

[peter radclyffe]

If I had 40K I didn't know what to do with . . . hell I know of much better deals then this.
you guys are so lucky, europe is so expensive in comparison