prawn trawler stabilty

[Sheepy]

I was just wondering what you guys would think of the stability of this boat and what it would take to roll her over?

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/PICT0513.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/PICT0514.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/PICT0029-1.jpg

[Sheepy]

Her dimensions are roughy 54 feet long by 18 beam and 7 foot draught.

[peter radclyffe]

I was just wondering what you guys would think of the stability of this boat and what it would take to roll her over?

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/PICT0513.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/PICT0514.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/PICT0029-1.jpg
2 beers & a late night

[Sheepy]

Was hoping for some serious answers.

[Landlubber]

Sheepy,

What would you like us to say......

If she is a fishing boat, as it certainly looks like she is, ask the skipper, or the crew if the skipper is selling her.

If she has been working your area for a few years and she has been a successful boat, she is more than likely a seakindly vessel.

Asking someone about the stability of a boat in a picture is rather like showing a race car and saying how fast do you reckon this is.

Not meaning to be rude or smart, but fishing vessel design , certainly east coast aussie boats like this one, are usually copied for their seakeeping abilities, so if she is an old , proven design, it is for a good reason.

If you plan on doing a conversion, which somehow I feek is the desire of the request, remember that all the things you take off will affect the roll period of her, so try to keep her balanced.

[peter radclyffe]

Was hoping for some serious answers.
i am serious, the problem the world over appears to be restricted draft in harbours & fishing grounds?, i've read an english industry paper, fishing news, for 20 years, i am a Sea Fish Industry Authority , British Government approved wooden boatbuilder, for yachts & boats, & if i build you a boat, i am responsible for the lives of you & your crew, i want to know if you go to sea in a boat i built, that i have done everything i can to make sure she returns safely, & that if she does founder, its not due to my workmanship, but the design of some boats is terrifying, in particular the 70-80 ft beamers of the west country in england, if you put 20 tons of top hamper on a beamer, you need to redesign her & put 30 tons of ballast on her keel, but you cant do that with most trawlers, because of the harbour depths, the gear has become increasingly higher on boats, & you tell me how many fishermen dont run on alcohol, because they work so hard, couple that with possible arrogance & violence, a moments mistake, & she can turn turtle, ask Mcduffs or the Napier Co, scotland for stability calculations, you ask this because i presume your worried about her stability, i am only guessing, that you dont feel safe on her, have a look at my work, type my name & Lulworth, i was in charge of 100 people for 4 years, 17 ft draft, 70 ton keel, now were talking about the stability a trawler needs

[Sheepy]

She has been afloat since about 1980. I have skippered her for about 12 months in the past, she is a very lively boat at sea, however she makes up for that with her catch rates. These next pics will show you how good she must be, or lucky.

I was not on her in these pics, thankfully!! Location - Iluka/yamba bar, Clarence river NSW, Australia. As you can see all of her front windows have been pushed in with 2 completely shattered, over $100,000 damage and at least six weeks of refit. Both crew walked away unharmed. I suspect her ultimate stability is very good or she has a hull full of water to keep her upright with that much water on her.

What would you guys think kept her afloat, Luck or design?

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/Fleetwing/1.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/Fleetwing/2.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/Fleetwing/3.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/Fleetwing/4.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/Fleetwing/5.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/Fleetwing/trawler01_1_2_1.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/Fleetwing/trawler01_1_2_1-1.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/Fleetwing/trawler02_2_2_1.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/Fleetwing/trawler02_2_2_1-1.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/Fleetwing/trawler03_3_2_1.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/Fleetwing/trawler03_3_2_1-1.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/Fleetwing/trawler04_4_2_1.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/Fleetwing/trawler04_4_2_1-1.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/Fleetwing/trawler05_5_2_1.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/Fleetwing/trawler05_5_2_1-1.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/Fleetwing/trawler06_6_2_1.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/Fleetwing/trawler06_6_2_1-1.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/Fleetwing/trawler07_7_2_1.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/Fleetwing/trawler07_7_2_1-1.jpg

[whoosh]

made me smile I knew from first posts she was from northern rivers

take away the fishing gear, floPper stoppers and you have a bloody great long range cruiser
when I saw pic reminded me of my youth, STABILTY IS WHAT YOU SEE, SHE HAS IT, \a feeling , for chrissakes, all thisferkin b/s mumbo jumbo from Qld, maritime safety, jobs for little jerks that cant build boats
good on yer love the wee boat
was she for sale yachthub last year?

[Sheepy]

She was built in ballina by corbett I think. There are a few of them around like her. Not sure about yachthub tho, could be one of the other boats of the same design. Would be interested to know myself.

We went through all the NSW stability stuff with this boat in the pic below. She passed on the old calculations but not on the new computer ones. They wanted to put 3000kg in her. She was a good sea boat, she went through one cyclone in QLD and I put her through a few rough rides. At one point I had the deck full of water in a southerly of about 30 knots and never felt unsafe on her.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/alexd.jpg

[peter radclyffe]

She was built in ballina by corbett I think. There are a few of them around like her. Not sure about yachthub tho, could be one of the other boats of the same design. Would be interested to know myself.

We went through all the NSW stability stuff with this boat in the pic below. She passed on the old calculations but not on the new computer ones. They wanted to put 3000kg in her. She was a good sea boat, she went through one cyclone in QLD and I put her through a few rough rides. At one point I had the deck full of water in a southerly of about 30 knots and never felt unsafe on her.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/InflatableSheep/alexd.jpg
fantastic

[ABoatGuy]

It is a good looking boat. I have had recent experience with another boat that passed under the old regs, but not the new. The new ones have added a wind and waves criteria that was our problem when light..

[john.G]

Made me smile too... I started my career on a sharpie in the Gulf and Torres Straits... and I know how tough a good one is.

(Mind you, you can't swap it for me K type)

[apex1]

To answer the question design or luck....... in this case both. The boat would have possibly stood more than that, the equipment less, and the outriggers did not fail (luckily). The impact on the barrier in the first series of pictures show serious forces, but not enough to destroy the asparagus which was meant to hold the radar antenna (the antenna itself interestingly was destroyed). Which idiot did "design" that?..and the asparagus?
The boating world would be happier if CE class B boats would be designed to stand that. Unfortunately we live in a "real" world with "real" shareholder values and boatbuilders pay a penalty of loosing their living if a proper design and the resulting craftsmanship is the yardstick.
And btw. chapeau... it seems to be their everyday job to pass this barrier... what people do to earn their living................ sometimes I´m a bit ashamed.
"my" industry is going away from being sensible...
Regards
Richard

[Typhoon]

I think anyone who takes on teh Clarence river bar in such conditions is a damn fool, no matter what the boat. Luck was a huge factor in that, the broach was not near as bad as it could have been. The north coast boats seem to have fairly shallow skegs and not too pronounced chines forward, combined with fairly rounded/full fore sections to help keep the bow from burying in such events, makse them tend to want to slide down waves rather than trip over them.
All the north coast boats are extremely seaworthy vessels, but a fool can sink anything. I've a few relatives who are not here now courtesy of that particular bar, and one who swam away from a very similar experienc to that set of photos.......

Regards, Andrew.

[whoosh]

bars like that is NZ, raglan Greymough IF you know your boat well its abig help, so these men are doing thousands hours so they do, in this case the entry of the boat is so critical, as is the rudder, but tend to agree , probably would have stood off myself, what was tide doing?
In 72 I had to take my tools out to the STRAITS WINNER, a tug going up to Singapore with a tow, I was ferried out in a heap and coming back nearly came a cropper on the Kempsey bar, think that was name, was a long time ago

[Sheepy]

The only thing that was smashed was the front windows and there framing, The radar, antenna and nav light masts look fine to me.

@Typhoon: The boat that he swam away from wouldn't happen to have been the koloona(sp)?

[Sheepy]

bars like that is NZ, raglan Greymough IF you know your boat well its abig help, so these men are doing thousands hours so they do, in this case the entry of the boat is so critical, as is the rudder, but tend to agree , probably would have stood off myself, what was tide doing?
In 72 I had to take my tools out to the STRAITS WINNER, a tug going up to Singapore with a tow, I was ferried out in a heap and coming back nearly came a cropper on the Kempsey bar, think that was name, was a long time ago


As far as I know a few boats had got out at high tide in the morning, he tried it at low tide in the afternoon. I'm the same as you, I would not have even been there in the first place. I have been crossing the clarence bar since I was 5 years old, and as a pro fisherman for 17 years. My father crossed it for about 35 years before leaving the industry.

[Guillermo]

I was not on her in these pics, thankfully!! Location - Iluka/yamba bar, Clarence river NSW, Australia. As you can see all of her front windows have been pushed in with 2 completely shattered, over $100,000 damage and at least six weeks of refit. Both crew walked away unharmed. I suspect her ultimate stability is very good or she has a hull full of water to keep her upright with that much water on her.

What would you guys think kept her afloat, Luck or design?


Outstanding series of photos! Just what is needed to teach seafarers about what shall not be done and atheistics about the existance of a caring God! :)

Cheers.

[phum]

I spent a few years at Ballina Slipways in the timber boat era, left when steel boats became the norm. Two boats I can remember from that time were ST. George and Kekenni (a lot of years later I owned Kekenni)
Stability was not a design factor in those days. They were designed to get over the bars, (Bar boats) work and get home for breakfast. The most common power was GM. 2 strokes (for there quick responce) although a few Gardners and others snuck in. Arm length was short(single gear) and they didn't have to carry much weight.
Later on Maclaren, Corbett and others built a fuller version of a bar boat. Fishing styles had changed and more HP. bigger props,longer arms (twin gear)more fuel and refridgeration needed more displacement.
Kekenni, considered by most to be a good seaworthy boat in its early days, rolled over and sank in the harbour at Weipa,was doing a slow turn and just kept rolling. Brine tanks were full, ice and prawns.
Sorry to ramble on.
Peter

[Guillermo]

Having a second look at the amazing images posted by Sheepy, I think that, on top of the big help of that skipper's mighty and caring angel, the fact of having that big box on the stern deck greatly diminished the amount of water taken on deck when running the waves, thus reducing the loss of stability. Some other contributing factors to the survival of the vessel could have been a hull design with a low tendency to broach, as has been said, because rudder action was probably almost useless due to aeration of water. Also a heavily ballasted/loaded hull could have helped (?).

Crazy master, anyhow.

Cheers.

[apex1]

The only thing that was smashed was the front windows and there framing, The radar, antenna and nav light masts look fine to me.



Give the first pic.s a closer look the radar antenna is out of angle!

[mydauphin]

Show these pictures to those guys that want to cross the oceans in a Solar powered Catamaran or those builder that want to make a lighter boat to go a few knots faster... Like the saying goes, " the sea does not care".

[whoosh]

well forefoot is not deep, so steering by bow probably not a big issue, the considerable beam played huge part and low bulkwards and as Guillo said half aft deck is box
Just fiddling stabilty our latest and even dropping cg .2 metre increases vas by 10 degrees so by sticking 3 tonne is as they want in the prawner will make huge diff, wont change downflood angle though
yes dauphin, some of the armchair sailors need to print some of these shots, remind em the sea is wet:)
there was a full sized ship down Antartica waters, got hit by a massive sea, stove her bridge windows in, she lay broadsides onwith the main engines stopped, they managed restart but captain said if another such sea had arrived it would have been all over
According Lloyds there are only 5 such places where truly freak waves occur , all other waves are in know patterns and heights

[Sheepy]

It's angle is wrong because the framework around the front windows no longer exists = nothing to hold the roof up.

[Çemberci]

A pdf literature is attached named "A best Practices guide to vessel
Stability-Guiding Fishermen Safely into the future * US Coast Guard"
Oktay Çemberci
İstanbul/Turkey