Transom & Stringer replacement

[blaze_125]

Call me nuts, or set the record straight. I just add an idea :confused:

I need to replace the transom and stringers on my boat.

The transom seems like a b**ch to get to because of it's configuration and the pit that's in front of it. I figured removing the wood should be fairly easy. It's putting new one in that'd be a pain in the neck. So here's my idea... tell me if I'm lunatic or if I missed something.

The transom layout looks like this.

|*|
|*|
|*|

| being a layer of fiberglass
* being a sheet of wood

So what if I was to do this:

|~|
|~|
|~|

| being a layer of fiberglass
~ being poured in resin

So basically, I'd remove all the wood and fill the void with resin(and vertical rebars). I'd end up with a (approx.) 1" think resin transom.

And what if I was to do the same with the stringers? Remove the rotten wood, create channels, pour resin in the chanels and voila!

Pros:
It will never rot again
It's easy to make it happen

Cons:
Probably mad expensive to make such a thick plate of resin

Stronger than wood? The transom is currently holding a 45hp motor, I may upgrade sooner or later to a 50hp motor. It's a relatively small boat, so by law, I can't go crazy on HP ratings... Would a poured slated of resin crack over time? If it did crack, it'd be easy to patch. So my question should probably be... Will it shatter when it gets stressed?

My other concern is weight... How heavy is that going to be compared to wood? On the other hand, my uncle used thick steel plate to replace his transom when he installed a 200hp motor... I can't image resin being heavier than steel.

???

[blaze_125]

Cons:
Probably mad expensive to make such a thick plate of resin

All I can say now is "Holy *@$%&#@"
I just did the math with approx. measurments.

Assuming the transom was this size: 1" thick, 48" wide, 40" high
It would hold a volume of 8.3 gallons. 8.3gal@100$/gal = 830$ to pour a transom :eek:

Now the stringers... 8' long, 2" high, 1.5" wide X 2 maybe 3
A volume of 1.24 gallon each. 1.24gal@100$/gal = 124$ per stringer :eek:

I knew it'd be expensive, just not THAT expensive lol. I'd still like to know if it would be solid enough though. I don't really plan on going that route anymore, but I'd like to know.

[PAR]

Resin by itself is way too brittle, this is why we use reinforcements in it and attempt to control the resin/fabric ratio.

Secondly, it'll weigh a lot more then the plywood core that's in there. Now you can use a pour in transom repair, but if you've checked the previous threads here about transom repairs, you might have seen my opinion about these types of repairs.

Plywood is used, because it is pound for pound stronger then steel, very stable, can take repeated flexing, easily accepts fasteners, is easy to cut to shape, cheap, etc.

[blaze_125]

Secondly, it'll weigh a lot more then the plywood core that's in there. Now you can use a pour in transom repair, but if you've checked the previous threads here about transom repairs, you might have seen my opinion about these types of repairs.

I was introduced a few minutes ago to "pourable transoms" such as Nida-Core. Being a Canadian resident shipping would most likely be killing me on prices... so yeah, plywood is most likely my better option at the moment.

I'll keep reading threads on here and wherever they are available to gather a better understanding. Meanwhile here's my new theory. You see, I'm good with when it comes to the rough stuff, but finition and making things pretty isn't my strongest ability. I'd like to avoid removing the well that's in front of the motor and then have to glass it back in when the new plywood has been inserted.

Could I simply cutout the circled portion, slide a new wood sheet in, then glass the top to seal it?

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_transom-theory.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=transom-theory.jpg)

Or will I have to cutout the whole rear end(the fiberglass layer the motor lays against) and start fresh?
If that's what I have to do... let me know if I have the steps right:

Cut the outside layer of fiberglass
Use that as a template to cut the shape of the new plywood
Cover the plywood with 2-3 layers of fiberglass woven frabic
Insert the new transom in the currently empty spot
Glass the new transom to the boat using 2-3 layers of fiberglass woven fabric
Lay new stringers against the transom and glass the stringers in place

Does that sound right?
What I hate about that is I'll have to paint the back. Or can I reuse the fiberglass layer I cutout? Cause I mean, once the rotten wood is removed from the fiberglass, that fiberglass panel is still good right? So I could laminate the new plywood with the old fiberglass panel, then glass the whole thing back in place? I'd still have to sand and paint a bit, but that would be limited to maybe 2-3 inches on each side of the cut. How far do I have to glass from the cut to make sure the transom is properly secured to the rest of the boat?

[blaze_125]

When I take the motor off the boat, can I lay it on the ground on its side? Or does it HAVE to be standing up?

[blaze_125]

I'll try to keep this thread updated as the project goes...

Here you can see the current rotten floor. The fiberglass is cracked all over the place. No wonder water got in. And what you don't see, is a small hole near the front of the whole. The hole is most likely you main cause of all this mess.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_RotenFlooFront.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=RotenFlooFront.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_RotenFloorRear.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=RotenFloorRear.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_StringersFoam.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=StringersFoam.jpg)

Tonight I got pretty much all the floor out. I still have to do some grinding/sanding to remove the remaining fiberglass that covered the floor along the sides of the hull.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_RottenFloorOut1.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=RottenFloorOut1.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_RottenFloorOut2.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=RottenFloorOut2.jpg)

This is god damn discuting... http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_StringerFoam.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=StringerFoam.jpg)

Just how much water can foam hold? This boat hasn't seen the lake for months. I just got out of storage where it sat for nearly 6months. Yeah it was sitting outsite, but it was covered with a hole free tarp.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_FoamWater1.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=FoamWater1.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_FoamWater2.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=FoamWater2.jpg)

Btw, I still need answers on my previous two posts.

[PAR]

Unfortunately, you can't just cut in a repair, because typically the rot extends down and sideways well into the multiple veneers of the plywood. Gravity has an obnoxious habit of always pulling in the same direction, meaning the moisture will collect at the bottom of the transom, then work it's way up. By the time you notice a soft transom, the whole central portion is rotted away.

The foam can hold moisture for years after it's removed, if not baked dry. It's not worth the trouble of cooking the moisture out, so it's removed and replaced if desired.

I don't bother replacing foam, I just provide a drain and weeps to permit the moisture to move aft and run out the transom plug. The sealed under sole compartments serve as buoyancy just as well as foam.

There are two approaches to your transom, inside or outside skin removal. I prefer outside, as it's a whole lot easier. Many like the inside because you have the hull shell intact on the outside when you're done.

My logic is simple. When a transom is shot, the gel coat is likely also near death too, so the boat needs to be painted anyway, so I hack the outer skin off, remove the plywood, install more in lots of goo, then re-bond the outer skin. If you're neat about it, you just paint the transom and call it a done deal.

Judging by your pictures, you have a lot more then just a transom to worry about. I'd stop farting around trying to save stuff and gut the inside of the boat. The sole, the stringers, the lot of it. At least the back half of the boat if this has a large percentage of rot.

This will expose the inside of the transom. You also appear to be trying to do this with everything still attached. Forget about it, strip the boat of the engine, the equipment, everything in the way. It'll make life a lot easier on you.

The deck cap is a pain in the butt, though often times you can remove the screws (in the rub rail) say about half way up the sides of the boat, then jack it up enough to clear and provide working room.

If not, it has to come off or have the back section cut (splash well and side decks) away to gain access. This all can be bonded back in place, but you'll have to paint things up to make it pretty again.

[blaze_125]

There are two approaches to your transom, inside or outside skin removal. I prefer outside, as it's a whole lot easier. Many like the inside because you have the hull shell intact on the outside when you're done.

Outside is the way to go for as I want to avoid playing with the well. As far as I know, the well is fiberglass only. I'll dig the foam that surrounds it to ensure it is though.
I won't be keeping alot. I'm actually going down to bare fiberglass. The stringers, foam, and transom are all going to the garbage.

I have yet to take the engine off. It's an old and bulky engine that weighs a ton and a half... can I lay it on the ground on its side, or does it HAVE to be standing up? Once the engine is off, I'll cut out the outer skin of the transom, do some more cleanup and and put it back together with some fresh plywood. I'm not in a hurry to remove the foam as it allows me to freely walk in the boat right now. Once the foam is out, I'll have to rig something up so I don't step right through the fiberglass hull. I need something that does the weight distribution when I walk in there.

That will remain off the current boat is the following... Fiberglass hull, front deck(which is fiberglass molded to the rest of the boat and has no wood) and the dashboard. Everything else goes out the door as far as structural stuff is concerned.

It's a much bigger project than I first thaught it would be... but in the end I know I'll be proud of all the work and all the new things I will have learned along the process. Knowledge is power, and that's just 1 more thing to had to my list.

So hopefully, I should have the engine off of there saturday and the transom should be out by sunday.

This is the most important question at the moment: "can I lay the engine on the ground on its side, or does it HAVE to be standing up".

[PAR]

Both two and four stroke engines can be placed on their sides, though four strokes usually have to be laid on one specific side, which will have nubs sticking out of the covers to receive the weight.

The bare 'glass will support your weight, you will not put a foot through it.

Leave a 3" flange of transom 'glass around the perimeter of the transom, don't cut it right at the corner of the boat. This area is heavily reinforced and molded into the hull shell when it was laid up. You'll need this flange to help hold and tie everything in when you re-install the skin.

I use a reciprocating saw with a metal cutting blade. It steers well, the fine tooth blade leaves much less mess and you can plunge cut or angle it around stuff.

Of course this will leave an area (plywood) along the edges of the transom that you'll have to hack out with a chisel and grinder, but the flange is worth saving, trust me.

I also usually cut right through the side deck and transom cap too., It makes it easier to drop in the new plywood.

Grind all the cut edges to feather them back. A big taper is what you're looking for, so the old material has a place for new materials to live without bulges. Along the flange I grind back to right about the corners of the transom. The inside edge is 1/3 the thickness of the hull shell (after feathering), which gradually thickens to the full thickness at the corner. Do the same thing with the removed skin (feather the edges). When the two are re-married, you'll have a shallow depression that you will fill with fabric and thickened goo. This bonds the edges and provides a lot more surface area for the epoxy.

Again, check out the other treads on this subject on this site. I cover the feather edges thingy and a few other tricks for increased strength, etc.

[blaze_125]

Both two and four stroke engines can be placed on their sides, though four strokes usually have to be laid on one specific side, which will have nubs sticking out of the covers to receive the weight.

You just made my day. Now I know I can move forward with this project :D
After reading your post I remembered a site where some guy described how he did his transom.

http://www.hydrostream.org/ArticleArchives/Transom.htm

It seems very similar to the process you described above. And his technic to laminate the new transom might just be the best option for me since I don't want to remove the splash well.

Using his "technic", I'd cut out a portion of the transom, leaving a few inches all around(like you suggested). Once the rotten wood is cleaned out, I could insert the new transom and laminate it inside the boat. Once laminated, I could then laminate the wood to the skin that was removed in the first step using the feather/taper technic you talked about.

Look at the thumbnail for my lamination process. I think the most important part in doing it that way is to ensure joints aren't becoming weak spots. So the transom has to be layered sort of like bricks would be layed down to build a wall.

That technic would make my life a whole lot easier(I think). It would be easy to get the wood between the splash well and the outer skin

[blaze_125]

So basically... it'd go something like this...

- Cut the back leaving 3-4 inches all around the edges
- Get all the wood out
- Paint resin over the back side(facing the inside of the boat) of the first transom layer, and paint the edges of all the transom layers
- Insert first layer of transom, cover it with resin
- Insert second layer of transom, lightly screw layer 1 and 2 together to get enough pressure to laminate
- Paint resin over the second layer
- Paint resin within 3-4 inches of the edge of the third layer(the portion that comes in contact the outer skin still molded to the boat)
- Insert the third layer and lightly screw it against the second layer to get enough pressure to laminate
- Clamp the transom laminated plywood against the outer skin to ensure good lamination between the plywood and outer skin
- Laminate the outer skin that was previously removed to the new transom, and make it all pretty again.

I just had some fun with Fireworks making a little demo of the process

[blaze_125]

The deck cap is a pain in the butt, though often times you can remove the screws (in the rub rail) say about half way up the sides of the boat, then jack it up enough to clear and provide working room.

If not, it has to come off or have the back section cut (splash well and side decks) away to gain access. This all can be bonded back in place, but you'll have to paint things up to make it pretty again.

I think I just figured out what you meant. I think the top portion(deck) is molded to the rest of the boat, but when I think of it more deeply, it doesn't really make sense. Unless they glassed it onto afterwards. I know there is foam under the side deck, so I'll dig in and look for bolts, joints, or any thing that could show be the hull and deck are 2 seperate piece that can be taken appart. If it's the case, if I understand your statement properly, it would mean that the splash well would actually come along with the top deck.

Thanks for all the input so far.

[blaze_125]

The plywood I purchased for the floor is 3/8" thick. I want to mount 2 seats using pedestrals like this:

http://www.thechandleryonline.com/assets/product_images/113_A12505351.jpg
The pedestral height will be in the range of 9 to 12". And the pedestral will be bolted in t-nuts.

Is my floorboard thick enough or will I need to add some thickness where the pedestrals will be mounted?

I used to seats like this. But I hated them
http://www.thechandleryonline.com/assets/product_images/223_A4279FR82.jpg

[blaze_125]

Here's the latest update.
This weekend I got the motor off, and got most of the transom out.

This is how it looked from the top looking down at the transom.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_TransomTop.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=TransomTop.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_TransomLeftSide.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=TransomLeftSide.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_TransomRightSide.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=TransomRightSide.jpg)

I started the day by marking my cut
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_CutLinedOut1.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=CutLinedOut1.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_CutLinedOut2.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=CutLinedOut2.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_CutLinedOut3.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=CutLinedOut3.jpg)

9 Mastercrap blades later, the skin finally dropped on the floor
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_TransomSkinOnFloor.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=TransomSkinOnFloor.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_TransomNoSkin1.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=TransomNoSkin1.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_TransomNoSkin2.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=TransomNoSkin2.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_TransomNoSkin3.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=TransomNoSkin3.jpg)

A 3 hours later it looked like this
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_TransomRemoved1.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=TransomRemoved1.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_TransomRemoved2.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=TransomRemoved2.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_TransomRemoved3.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=TransomRemoved3.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_TransomRemoved4.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=TransomRemoved4.jpg)

So yeah... I got some more rotten wood to remove from 1 side, and also the inside fiberglass layer on both sides. Once that is out, it will be time to start making the new transom.

I'm sorry I can't get pictures that show the whole back of the boat. My garage is 20' long and I had to park the trailer at an angle to be able to close the garage door and still be able to work on the back. I only got about 2' of room between the transom and the back wall of my garage, which isn't enough to capture the whole rear end.

[blaze_125]

Call me cheap... but can I use a lower quality resin with a higher quality glass cloth?

I'd be using:
6oz West System cloth for the transom
West System 4" tape for the stringers
Bondo resin?

[PAR]

Resin is the strength of the job. A "higher" quality fabric will not offer a substantial difference (unless you get into exotics or uni directionals), certainly not enough to compensate for a weaker resin.

The amount of resin will be relatively low. Since you'll want good stuff on the other elements of your boat (stringers, sole, etc.) skimping on resin isn't wise economy.

Piecing in the transom can be done, though it's not something I'd do, unless the transom was so big it required multiple sheets.

The grain needs to run athwartship, preferably staggered with subsequent layers to help spread loads. Each joint will be a weak point, especially if it's a butt joint.

Cutting the top of the transom off isn't going to add much more work for you and has the benefit of permitting the new core to be dropped in from above.

http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/data/3172/medium/PAR-50.jpg

This is the way I usually arrange the plywood sheets in a transom, especially if it's to carry a lot of HP. 3 layers of 1/2" plywood, staggered as shown, of course cut to shape. Yes, it does leave a lot of odd shaped waste, but it's the strongest orientation you can employ. Conversely you could use two layers of 3/4" plywood, each canted at about an 11 to 12 degree angle, though this isn't quite as strong.

I bond the plywood together outside the boat, where I have a lot more control on pressure and goo application. Then the core, as an assembly goes in the transom. I can remove the temporary fasteners this way and the quality of the laminations is more secure.

[blaze_125]

Cutting the top of the transom off isn't going to add much more work for you and has the benefit of permitting the new core to be dropped in from above.

lol, you answered the exact question I was going to ask. You mentioned it earlier in another post but I wanted to make sure we were on the same line.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_TransomFiberGlass.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=TransomFiberGlass.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_TransomLeftSide.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=TransomLeftSide.jpg)

When you say remove the top, you're talking about the portion between the rear layer of fiberglass, and in my case, the splash well? I was thinking about that today and figured that's what you were talking about. It would make the job alot simpler than what I had thought previously by making multiple cuts and multiple butt joints. That peice will defenetly come off.

You make a good point on the resin. I did not know resin was that important so now that I do, I'll take your advice into consideration. What's an extra 50$ after all... Espescially if it makes the whole thing last longer... 50$ over 10 years is 5$ a year... oh well... 5 less coffees a year ;)

I'm not quite sure my transom was originally 1.5" thick. When I removed it, it measured 1.5" but that's 1.5" soaked. I know wood expands when it gets too wet. I'm thinking the transom may have been 1" from the manufacturer. I'll check if I can squeeze 1.5" in there though. Maybe the wood did not expand as much as I think it did.

Off the top of your head... you think 1 gallon of resin would be enough to complete the transom and stringers?
What about my idea of using the glass tape for the stringers? I figures the width of the roll would most likely be a somewhat perfect wrap around the stringers and I would only need to cut lengthwise.

[PAR]

Your transom is 1.5" before the glass went on, trust me. It will measure more then that finished up. How much resin is dependent on how much fabric you use, how much filling you'll need to do, how neat you are, etc. I don't know how tall your stringers are, but rolls of tape ('glass) can be overlapped if the stringer is tall. The key is the amount of new fabric on the hull shell. Be generous here with several inches of tabbing into the hull shell.

[blaze_125]

I'd be using:
6oz West System cloth for the transom
West System 4" tape for the stringers
Bondo resin?

Hmm... yeah... I did the math this morning and revised my numbers and supplies lol

Screw the glass tape.
A 4"X10' 6oz roll sells for 13$ around here
I got 4 stringers @ 8' each, so basically 1 roll per stringer

A 60"X4.5' 6oz sells for the same price.
So I could cut 10 lengths of 6"X4.5', use 2 lengths per stringer, I have 2 lengths left in the end. For the price of 1 glass tape roll :eek:

West System already has its reputation, who else makes great quality resin?

[PAR]

You're going to need more cloth then that. You need as much laminate as was there originally.

www.boatbuildercentral.com (www.boatbuildercentral.com)

Try finding supplies mail order.

[blaze_125]

Latest updates from today.
Stringers and foam... it's all out. or almost. I have kept the fiberglass where the "cross memebers" were located so I can mark them before I completely remove them. And I have laminated the transom.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_LaminatingTransom.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=LaminatingTransom.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_LaminatingTransom2.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=LaminatingTransom2.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_LaminatingTransom3.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=LaminatingTransom3.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_NoMoreStingers.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=NoMoreStingers.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_NoMoreStringers2.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=NoMoreStringers2.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_NoMoreStringers3.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125u/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=NoMoreStringers3.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_NoMoreStringers4.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=NoMoreStringers4.jpg)

[blaze_125]

Todays update...
I laminated the stringers and decided the "cross member", the parts that go across the stringers, were going to be 2X4 so I can have plenty of "meat" to screw in the floor panel.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_LaminatingStringers.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=LaminatingStringers.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_LaminatingStringers4.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=LaminatingStringers4.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_LaminatingStringers3.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=LaminatingStringers3.jpg)

[blaze_125]

When I glass the stringers in, do I put something between the wood and the hull, or do I lay the stringers right against the hull?

Unlike other boats I have seen on here, the original stringers were not completely fiberglassed. The plywood was symply layed down and fiberglass patches were scattered along the stringers. I'll probably do the same. I'll put on a 2 coats of resin on my stringers and hold them in place the same way the manufacturer did it in the first place.

[blaze_125]

If I'm able to stick to my timelime I should be glassing the transom and stringers this weekend. I have another question concerning the stringers installation. I'm afraid things are going to move and not be straight if I do everything at the same time. By doing everything at the same time I mean: lay down the resin, place the stringers over the resin, lay the cloth over the stringer and soak the cloth with resin.

So what's the way to do it? All at once? Or the way I just thought of...

The attached gif gives you a general idea of the hull shape and the stringer location. From the top of the boat... the hull goes down at an angle, goes flat for the side stringer, goes down at an angle, then flat again for the center stringer. The blue portion of the gif represents resin. So here my idea...

Lay down resin where the stringers are going to be located.
Lay down the stringers in the resin
Let everything dry and harden
Once it's dry and hard, cover it all with cloth and resin.

Also, originaly the boat did not appear to have any type of bracing between the transom and stringers. My understanding is there should be braces that link it all together for force transfer when the boat accelerates. Is that right? So my stringers will run all the way to the transom, and I'll join everything using triangular shaped plywood brackets. How's that?

Edit:
There is just so much to learn :s
So yeah, I just read a thread where people were talking about drilling drain holes in the stringers? Once the floor is back on, I'll be filling the underside with expandable foam. Do I still need to make holes? If I start drilling holes all over my stringers, won't I end up in the same situation I'm in right now? That is ripping everything appart to start fresh?

[PAR]

Your stringer and sole failed because moisture that got in there didn't have a way out. I always provide a drain, foam or not.

The cross braces (bridging), between the stringers can be a single piece, just butt them up to the stringers and glue in place. Think egg crate and leave the fancy triangles for cabinet makers.

I wouldn't try to do them all at once with your skill level. The goo is slippery and you'll end up wearing as much as applying.

Do one side at a time, which will offer a place to walk without stepping in goo.

The stringers and braces should have "limber" or "weep" holes to permit water to drain aft. Typically these will be in the corners on the lowest side of the compartmentalized stringer/bridging assembly. Dry fit everything first, including the cutouts for the weeps. You can't have enough weeps so if in doubt, drill another one. A 3/4" tall notch will work.

Once the dry run is placed, mark where everything goes with a "Sharpie" so you'll be able to see it come goo time. Now remove all the pieces and set them aside.

All the pieces need to be COMPLETELY coated with epoxy, at least two coats, preferably three, especially the end grain. They should be coated, just prior to installation so the last coat is just barely tacky or just past this stage of the cure. Do only those pieces you be install with the first day's efforts.

Wet out the hull with unthickened epoxy in the areas where only the pieces you're about to install live. Next mix up a thickened batch of epoxy, say a 50/50 mixture of silica and milled fibers. If you need to error on one side or the other, use more milled fibers then silica, it creates a good bond.

Place a healthy bead of thickened goo along the line for the first piece, then place the pre-gooed up piece on and into the thickened epoxy. Smear the oozed out goo into a fillet along the lower edge of the stringer or brace. This makes a transition for the fabric, from stringer to hull. If you need more thickened goo, mix some up and make a continuous fillet on both sides of the installed piece.

Now butt a brace piece up against it to keep it standing upright, again using thickened goo as the glue and forming a fillet along the adjoining edges and the hull.

You ain't done yet, get over it, now it's time for the fabric. Apply more unthickened epoxy to the parts just installed, then lay your pre-cut pieces of fabric over them. Push it down into the wet goo. Use you gloved finger and make it contact the fillets. A chip brush, roller squeegee or whatever works good for completing the wetout process. When you've done it right, the fabric will goes transparent, except over the thickened goo areas. If applying more layers of fabric, do so now, the same way.

I don't piece meal the tabbing to the hull, but prefer to make continuous tabs. You're stringers failed with broken tabbing last time, you can be the judge of how you should approach this time.

[blaze_125]

You're stringers failed with broken tabbing last time, you can be the judge of how you should approach this time.

lol very good point.
I'll stop by the marine shop tomorrow and buy the needed supplies.

[blaze_125]

Next mix up a thickened batch of epoxy, say a 50/50 mixture of silica and milled fibers.

So basically, I mix up the resin with hardener as per the manufacturer specs, and then I add silica and milled fiber? 1 part resin for 1 part silica/milled fiber(which would be half part silica/half part milled fiber)?

http://www.thechandleryonline.com/
That's where I'll buy my supplies. They are local so my project cost won't go sky high with shipping charges and cross border fees. According to your post, I get a decent idea of the supplies I need.


Silica (http://www.thechandleryonline.com//product.asp?dept%5Fid=1521&pf%5Fid=153%5FM4062)http://www.thechandleryonline.com/assets/product_images/153_M4062.jpg

Micro fibers (http://www.thechandleryonline.com//product.asp?dept%5Fid=1521&pf%5Fid=153%5FM4036) http://www.thechandleryonline.com/assets/product_images/153_M4036.jpg

Resin (http://www.thechandleryonline.com//product.asp?dept%5Fid=1526&pf%5Fid=153%5FM105B)http://www.thechandleryonline.com/assets/product_images/153_M105B.jpg

Hardener (http://www.thechandleryonline.com//product.asp?dept%5Fid=1521&pf%5Fid=153%5FM206B)http://www.thechandleryonline.com/assets/product_images/153_M206B.jpg

6oz Cloth (http://www.thechandleryonline.com//product.asp?dept%5Fid=1523&pf%5Fid=153%5FM742)http://www.thechandleryonline.com/assets/product_images/153_M742.jpg

And eh... are you saying I shouldn't bother bracing the transom to the stringers? I just glass the transom plywood against the back of the boat and call it a day?

Now drainage.
I just cutout a small portion at the back of the stringer so water can get at the back of the boat and drain when I take the plug out. Meaning I'd remove the white portion in this picture.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/stringerdrain.jpg

[PAR]

Log onto www.westsystem.com and down load their "user's guide" it will cover how to mix, adding fillers, fabric wetout, etc.

It will take several layers of 6 ounce fabric to make your tabbing. It has to be at least as thick a laminate was it was before.

[blaze_125]

All the supplies are purchased.

[PAR]

The "user's guide" will tell you how to work with the supplies you purchased . . .

[blaze_125]

The "user's guide" will tell you how to work with the supplies you purchased . . .

Yeah, I looked at the WestSystem website like you suggested and they do have alot of useful information:D
The counter clerk told me the resin/hardener ratio was 5:1 but I think I'll splurge and get the pump kit. 1 stroke for 1 stroke, how could I mess that up?...

[billjoat]

Hmm... yeah... I did the math this morning and revised my numbers and supplies lol

Screw the glass tape.
A 4"X10' 6oz roll sells for 13$ around here
I got 4 stringers @ 8' each, so basically 1 roll per stringer

A 60"X4.5' 6oz sells for the same price.
So I could cut 10 lengths of 6"X4.5', use 2 lengths per stringer, I have 2 lengths left in the end. For the price of 1 glass tape roll :eek:

West System already has its reputation, who else makes great quality resin?

I was too a long time west user. There is much better, cheaper, easier to work with, and more convient epoxies out there. I currently use marinepoxy from boatbuilderscentral

[blaze_125]

I was too a long time west user. There is much better, cheaper, easier to work with, and more convient epoxies out there. I currently use marinepoxy from boatbuilderscentral

Thanks for the info, I'll keep that in mind for my next project as I baught my supplies already...

[billjoat]

I understand. I replied before I finished the reading. Good luck on your project.:)

[blaze_125]

I understand. I replied before I finished the reading. Good luck on your project.:)

Lol that happens to me all the time :D

[blaze_125]

so, I was going to start glassing the stringers over the weekend and got set back.

At first I thaught the hull was straight. It's not!!!
The stringer that goes down the center line is good, the hull is straight and all. But the sides aren't. Near the middle of the stringer, the hull curves downward (creates like a small valley). So my stringer is in contact with the hull everywhere but there. I guess I could fill the gap with thickened epoxy but I don't like the idea. The gap is somewhere near 1/4".

So yeah, a little step back, but it ain't something that will stop me from finishing this project. On the other hand, the transom is most likely going in tonight. I sealed the edge yesterday so it should be good to install by the time I get home tonight.

[David Valle]

Hi Blaze i just read posts on this project sound's like some good work being done . I just finished restoring this boat. I also work at home at night. I couldn't get any marine plywood here so I used the floor off of a 40' container and steam bent it to fit transom and glassed it in.

[David Valle]

Here's how my project ended. ofcourse you can't give up it's great keep up the spirt pal. It sounds to me your planning and executing real well. I like to read PAR 's thoughts lot's of knowledge there.
Dave

[David Valle]

The pics never went thru
bad server here sorry

[blaze_125]

Nice looking boat David.
I put the transom in yesterday night. By the time I get home, the epoxy should be dry and rock solid. I used some fillers to control the run of the epoxy on the vertical surfaces and it worked great.

It's incredible how West System doesn't smell anything. I mean, I could do all that in the basement and none would notice. I'm used to working with Walmart type resin that stinks a mile away for days. The West System stuff is also much easier to work with.

[blaze_125]

No I did not give up on this project :)
I finnaly overcomed the dead end I was in and finnaly made stringers that properly fit the hull. As I write this, all 3 stringers and cross members are in place ready to be glassed in. I'll post picts once I take them :)

[PAR]

See, you're not as helpless as your wife says you are after all . . . :D

[David Valle]

Bravissimo! blaze
thumbs up ;)
Dave

[mobilemike]

any publications available for this type of repair on a 1986 baha 30 ft ?

[PAR]

Boat repair in general is covered in several books. The book store here has a few. Since each is sufficiently different enough to warrant a book itself, only general 'glassing and core replacement procedures are usually covered. A transom core replacement of your '86 Baha will be them same deal. Access the situation, select a method of repair and break out the grinder.

[David Valle]

Hi Blaze
Have the stringers and cross members been glassed post us some pics.
I was thinking about your next step do you have a new floor. At the point where you put your floor back in measure and mark where the stringers and
cross members are so if you need to fix anything to the floor you will know
where to drill later. I made that mistake and am not sure where to drill for seats now.

Good luck
Dave

[blaze_125]

Hi Blaze
Have the stringers and cross members been glassed post us some pics.
I was thinking about your next step do you have a new floor. At the point where you put your floor back in measure and mark where the stringers and
cross members are so if you need to fix anything to the floor you will know
where to drill later. I made that mistake and am not sure where to drill for seats now.

Good luck
Dave

I ran into multiple different type issues in the past few weeks and the boat project is the one thing that got put aside... Someone died, I put a car back on the road, that same car blew up last week end... the typical fun stuff you know... :(

But I grabbed some more fiberglass cloth yesterday afternoon and the project should be back on track tomorrow. I'm everybody's IT technician, and also everybody's mechanic and people seem to come to me exacly when I would prefer they didn't... I want the boat back in the water by the end of the month since that's when I take my summer vacation. The next 2 weeks should be spent on the boat.

Now I got a question about the gel coat. As far as I understand, the gel coat is not only used to make the boat pretty. I think it also helps keep water out. Does that mean I have to gel coat the transom before I wet the boat? I'd like to complete all of the fiberglass work, and test drive the boat to make sure I got no leak before I gel coat it...

Edit:
What? I just read a thread where it says you can't gelcoat over fiberlgass? I'm lost here...
What about automotive paint? Can I respray the whole boat using car paint?

[blaze_125]

1 other thing... money is running short with the cars breaking down all the time so I think I'll have to skip the "marine grade carpet" thing this year. I think I'll just apply a thick coat of resin on the floor and call it a day.

To ensure the floor isn't too slippery, would you recommand adding sand to the resin mixture applied on the floor? Cause if I use resin only, I'ma break my neck every time I step in with wet feet.

[David Valle]

Good to have you back ;) :D

I think when glassing make sure there's enough resin to soak the fiber well
and that should be water tight. Your boat should not depend on only gelcoat to keep water out. I used a good bicomponent primer ( 2k 4+1 )
after using an epoxy based filler and lots of sanding and refilling. Three coats of paint and 6 coats of clear.

Sand and resin may not be a good thing. It will be good antiskid but hard to clean. How about textured paint. Or antiskid tape ( 3M Marine ) strips on a good paintjob?

Dave

[blaze_125]

Sand and resin may not be a good thing. It will be good antiskid but hard to clean. How about textured paint. Or antiskid tape ( 3M Marine ) strips on a good paintjob?

Dave

Mopping a floor that has sand imbedded is indeed a royal pain in the b*tt. On the other hand, how would I manage to clean the floor if I broke my neck trying to get in after a swim? :eek: lol I'll look up the 3m thing you talked about. But I'm looking at making the whole floor anti skid. From the back of the boat all the way under the steering wheel.

Wouldn't putting the 3m strips over a painted floor render the paint useless? The 3m antiskid would hide the paint anyway? So since cleaning the floor is not my main concern(I can always pressure wash it or get whoever got it dirty to clean it :D ), is sand a good idea to make it antiskid? I know lots of people mix sand and the likes in their epoxy mix when they cover their garage floor. And how would I add color to make it a bit more interesting to look at?

What would my mix look like?
Resin + Sand + color additive = kick @ss antiskid looking boat floor
I'm aware the color additive would most likely not protect the resin from UV rays, but that's not really that important at the moment as I am more than likely going to put Marine Carpet in there over the next winter.

After further reading on Gelcoats, I figured its role has more to do with UV protecting the fiberglass than it is to add water resistance. So what's the word on using urethan car paint on a fiberglass boat? I have plenty of stuff running through my head so this post probably looks like a complete mess. I'm all over the place lol...

Cliffs notes:
Resin + Sand + color additive = kick @ss antiskid looking floor :?:
Automotive urethan paint to paint the exterior of the boat?

[PAR]

Do yourself a favor and don't use sand, this is what amateurs use and it's about the worst material for an anti skid. It does produce a nice texture, but the granules can grind out of the paint, it's very difficult to remove, and generally a pretty lubberly way of doing things. Buy a texture additive, that's designed to be added to paint, but don't add it to the paint. Apply a good few base coats, then with the last still very wet, sprinkle and even coating of the texture over the wet paint. Let this dry for a couple of days then vacuumed the loose stuff off. Apply additional over coats to "soften" the crispness of the texture down to the desired level of texture.

The best and most waterproof anti skid I've found is truck bed liner coatings. It's extremely tough, has a nice, soft texture, can be aggressively pressure washed, is water proof and easy to apply.

[blaze_125]

what about this stuff?
http://www.thechandleryonline.com//product.asp?dept%5Fid=3004&pf%5Fid=040%5FPDPASW
http://www.thechandleryonline.com/assets/product_images/040_PDPAS.jpg

And what about automotive paint on a fiberglass boat? I'll ride soft water only; this boat won't see salt water ever.

[PAR]

The Sikkens paint you've shown has the texture added and it's one way of doing it, but it's difficult to get a uniform texture when you add the texture directly in the paint.

Automotive paints can be used on a boat and they produce wonderful finishes, but you have to be setup for applying highly toxic, 2, 3 and 4 part painting systems, which most novices aren't. You also could try a 2 part LPU which is very similar to the automotive paint systems. It can be "rolled and tipped" which produces results that will rival a sprayed job. Again these types of paints do require some skills and understanding, as they're not so easy to apply well, under the shade tree in the back yard.

Trust me, the best anti skid coating you can put down will be truck bed liner. It's a lot more durable then paint. Just roll it on and wait for it to dry.

[blaze_125]

Automotive paints can be used on a boat and they produce wonderful finishes, but you have to be setup for applying highly toxic, 2, 3 and 4 part painting systems, which most novices aren't. You also could try a 2 part LPU which is very similar to the automotive paint systems. It can be "rolled and tipped" which produces results that will rival a sprayed job. Again these types of paints do require some skills and understanding, as they're not so easy to apply well, under the shade tree in the back yard.

Yeah lol I'm no pro, I got the compressor, paint gun and garage but I do not have a spray booth to handle the toxic fumes... I'll look into the 2 part LPU.

Trust me, the best anti skid coating you can put down will be truck bed liner. It's a lot more durable then paint. Just roll it on and wait for it to dry.
I'll take your word on that.

[David Valle]

Hey Blaze,

Funny I was going to mention truckliner but thought there must be special products out there these days and reserved myself. However now that PAR mentioned it I'm more convinced it would be just for you. I used
bedliner last weekend to paint the inside floor of my Landcruiser. I found it to be easy to use and got good results. You can change the roughness of the texture according to how much thinner you add.

Few years back I painted the inside of a friends boat white 2k bicomponent automotive paint then took another color of the same paint, almost closed the air on my spray gun dial ( to where the paint spatters out rather than being sprayed almost to where it drips ) and covered the first coat of white with protruding spots of gray. When dry this also gave durable roughness.

Here are some pics about painting fiberglass my sons and I did this a few months back.

[David Valle]

Here is how it turned out but still slippery inside . Thanks to both of you now I know I will look for yellow bedliner and paint it on. :cool: ;)

[blaze_125]

I'm finnaly back in the game. Here is the first stringer glassed in:
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_1StringerIn-1.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=1StringerIn-1.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_1StringerIn-2.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=1StringerIn-2.jpg)

Each picture have 2 "white" spot on the top of the stringer. That's where I'll cut out the fiberglass to insert the "cross-members".
I used a mixing stick to lay and spread the resin. That's a very time consumming process. What else could I use?

I've seen 2 types of rollers for fiberglass application.
There's this one: http://www.thechandleryonline.com/assets/product_images/006_M3357.jpg

And there's this one: http://www.thechandleryonline.com/assets/product_images/153_M8002.jpg

Other than the obvious fact they aren't made of the same material, and 1 is a roller cover, what's the difference between both? Are they both used for the same type of applications? Will I be able to use the first one more than once without spending 300hours cleaning it between jobs?

It looks like I'll have to change gear and speed things up. I got people lining up for car maintenance and I hate using a floor jack outside of the garage.

[David Valle]

Hi blaze
For the job you are doing use a brush. Cut the bristles to about half the length(good for dabing resin to soak into fiber evenly.) 2-3inch cheap brush should do the trick. Buy a few. Here the thinner for cleaning these cheap brushes costs more so when I'm finished I throw it away. This is a much faster and beter way to apply resin,fiberglass,more resin ( with a dabbing motion to soak fibers ) and repeat three times to fix the stringers to the bottom of hull. Each progressive layer of fiberglass should be slightly wider.

What material are you planing for the deck. If you are going to use plywood
apply a thinned coat of resin on the bottom side before fixing permanently.
Also bevel the outer edges so your patch is not higher than the deck.

Dave

[blaze_125]

What material are you planing for the deck. If you are going to use plywood
apply a thinned coat of resin on the bottom side before fixing permanently.

The floor will be plywood covered with resin on both faces and end grain. I'll also add a layer of plywood where I plan to mount the seats and use t-nuts to bolt the pedestral to the floor.

I used brushes on other fiberglass projects and thaugh it was messy as hell(I have half a dozen left). This time I'll cut the bristles and give that a shot.

[David Valle]

The first roller looks like one to take bubbles out. he second one for application. But for this job I would find it difficult to use any of them.
Try the old throwaway brush.

Your work looks net and clean. Great job. How many layers of fiberglass matt
is there now on the sides of the stringers? looks like you need a couple of strips which overlap the stinger and bottom.
The lake we use our boat in can get very choppy suddenly and boats can take a good beating so I glassed three layers on all sides of stringers and five cross members to the bottom. Then glued ( epoxy ) the plywood floor clamped down with stainless screws and worked on glassing the edges of the new floor.

Hey do you have a full pic of the boat ? :)

[blaze_125]

the original(what I removed) was 3 strips 1 layer of woven roving and 3 cross members scattered across the top of the stringers.

So 3 places had a 4" wide strip of woven roving, and 3 other places had a bare cross member.

I'm making this 2 layers of 6oz mat, end to end.
And 4 or 5 cross member. The cross members will be attached as follow:
Predrilled screw holes
screw holes filled with epoxy
end grain of the opening epoxied
and tied down with stainless screws.

[blaze_125]

This post is for PAR... I saw your response on another thread and I didn't want to take ownership of a thread that wasn't mine so I'll bring the quote in here.

Actually the deck is the part the bow light and cleats sit on. The places you walk around inside the boat are called the sole.

The easiest way to remove the foam is with a flexible hand saw, amazingly enough. Power tools will quickly show you how easy it is to cut through the hull. A hand saw can bend around the hull shapes and stringers. Remove big chunks at a time, but don't get greedy, just what you can handle. I use a regular cross cut and a key hole style drywall saw for the tight curves.

You can try to pry up the tabbing on your stringers, but it's a lot more effort then just cutting the top off and whacking out the old stringer, leaving the tabbing intact for the most part, to receive a new stringer.

The sole is just as important as the stringers. It provides the bulk of athwartship stiffness, the stringers bear longitudinal loads.

You could try solvents to remove the foam, but then you have a pool of molten foam goo you have to deal with, which of course is going to be quite toxic. Hack it out as best as you can, then clean up the hull shell with a grinder or sander.

You can place more foam in the bilge. I wouldn't bother, but if you elect to do so, use the 2 pound density, two part polyurethane stuff. Don't pour this stuff into a closed compartment, unless you want to see it rip apart from expanding foam. It serves to satisfy politicians, but little else. The buoyancy it provides, can be had from the same spaces below the sole, filled just with air (no foam) and if it's not there, it can't absorb moisture, fuel, etc.

There are many previous threads on these subjects. It may be a wise investment to plod through the old back threads and get an idea what you're up against, the tools, techniques and materials.

Good Luck and welcome aboard Mark . . .

My question is in regards to the section I made bold.
Do you mean once we removed the foam and put in a new deck we shouldn't bother pourring in new foam under the deck?

[blaze_125]

and then there were 2...
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_2StringersIn.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=2StringersIn.jpg)

[PAR]

That's correct, I wouldn't bother re-installing foam in the bilge. The compartments will be sealed in, once the new sole goes down, so they serve as air chambers, which does the same thing as air chambers filled with foam do. The benefit other then the obvious not needing to buy and install foam is, these compartments can be drained back to a sump (weep holes) or transom drain, so any accumulated moisture can drain out. Foam will just suck some up, eventually getting soaked and staring the problem all over again.

[blaze_125]

That's correct, I wouldn't bother re-installing foam in the bilge. The compartments will be sealed in, once the new sole goes down, so they serve as air chambers, which does the same thing as air chambers filled with foam do. The benefit other then the obvious not needing to buy and install foam is, these compartments can be drained back to a sump (weep holes) or transom drain, so any accumulated moisture can drain out. Foam will just suck some up, eventually getting soaked and staring the problem all over again.

Nice. That's 100$ I can spend somewhere else now.

and then there were 2...
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_2StringersIn.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=2StringersIn.jpg)

I used a cut brush to glass that second stringer. It shaved 1 and a half hour, and I also cut down on the quantity of resin I used.
With the stir stick, I used about 25 pump shot of resin(I'm talking about the pump system for the WestSystem epoxy). With the brush, I used about 18.

Both stringers were epoxied to the hull using a "peanut butter" mixture of epoxy and fillers. The stringers were pressed down into the epoxy using bricks for about 3 hours(I'm using the "quick" cure hardener).

Tonight I'm going to do the middle stringer and I'll start epoxying the crossmembers. I should be able to dry fit the floor panel saturday or sunday. Then I'll glass the outside of the transom to make it all pretty again. How long should I wait before I take her to the water? Once the outside skin of the transom is glassed I'd like to take the boat to the lake, and let the boat sit in the water for about 30 minutes(to watch for leaks), then I'd go for a quick drive to ensure the transom holds up.

[blaze_125]

That's correct, I wouldn't bother re-installing foam in the bilge. The compartments will be sealed in, once the new sole goes down, so they serve as air chambers, which does the same thing as air chambers filled with foam do.

The way the boat is made, those "chambers" are not sealed in any way. The front and rear are wide open. Does that mean I should close the ends under the deck?

If you look at the image below
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_chambers-not-sealed.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=chambers-not-sealed.jpg)

The green part represents the deck/sole
The redish portion represent the open area at the front. So basically... if I dropped a marble behind the foot rest, it would freely roll all the way to the back of the boat under the sole.

[PAR]

Even better, you don't need weep holes, as all the moisture will easily travel the length of the bilge and can drain out. Of course you need to provide a drain. At the aft end of the bilge stringers, you may need a weep hole to let moisture out from there, if they butt against the transom.

Under the splash well, you can stop the sole short and create a "sump". This sump would have a drain for the bilge area and moisture on the sole would just dump into this depression. The transom would also have a drain, which you'd plug underway, the bilge drain wouldn't need to be plugged. If your boat takes a fair amount of water over the rails, then a pump mounted in the sump is a good idea. By the biggest, bad ass pump you can fit in the sump.

[blaze_125]

here's a little something to look at until I go get some more mat.

On this one... don't mind the dry mat at the top right. My measuring skills were a little off lol
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_3stringersin2.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=3stringersin2.jpg)

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_3stringersIn.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=3stringersIn.jpg)

Test fitting the cross members
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_crossmembers.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=crossmembers.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_crossmembers2.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=crossmembers2.jpg)


http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_shotfromtransom.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=shotfromtransom.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_shotfromtransom2.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=shotfromtransom2.jpg)

[blaze_125]

Hey do you have a full pic of the boat ? :)

a few days before I baught it last year.

[blaze_125]

Latest update...
A bunch of crap keep pushing back my dead line but I'm getting there. I was hoping I could get her wet tonight, but that's going to have to wait a little longer. Anyway... yesterday I was planning puting the transom outter sking back on the boat, but once I got back there I decided to do the splash well instead. When I removed the rotten transom, I cut out a portion of the splash well to make my life easier.

So the splashwell is glassed, tonight the transom outerskin is going on and the misc hardware will be installed(drain plug, tow hooks,...).

[David Valle]

Thanks for all the pics.

Looks to me like some solid work your doing. :D

[blaze_125]

Thanks for all the pics.

Looks to me like some solid work your doing. :D

I'm trying very hard to make it as neat as possible. I don't want anything failing on me in the middle of a lack with possibly nobody around to save my @ss. And if this thread can help someone else in the same situation I was a few months ago, then it's a bonus :D

[blaze_125]

tonights' work:
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_OuterSkinOn1.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=OuterSkinOn1.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_OuterSkinOn2.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=OuterSkinOn2.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_OuterSkinOn3.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=OuterSkinOn3.jpg)

I put the rear outer skin back on.
I used thickened epoxy to glue it back on the transom, and screws to make sure it would stay there during the curing process. While it was curing, I went ahead and started sanding the joint all around the piece. There is only 1 small area where the laminated piece doesn't sit exacly flush with the remaining of the outer skin, so I'll just sand it down a little more than the rest to ensure I don't end up with a fugly bump that comes out of nowhere...

Tomorrow I'll be able to remove the screws and sand the areas where the screws were located. Once that's done, I'll start laying some fiberglass. I'll probably end up sanding the whole rear end though. I'll take all of the gel coat off and fiberglass the whole back end since I used screws to laminate the transom to the outer skin, and some more screws to laminate the outer skin that was cut off to clean out the rotten transom. If I don't glass over the screw hole I'll end up doing this all over again in 3 years if not sooner.

Having very little experience in this kind of work, I think most of the timelines I had set were probably way off for my skillset. I mean, I'm no retard but this is a little more time consuming than I expected so I'll try to stay away from set timeline from now on lol

[PAR]

Attached is the proper way to handle those seams. The left hand image shows it as it is now, two skins glued back down on the transom. The middle shows what we mean when you feather out the edges. I use a big disk grinder or sander for this and plow out a wide groove, about 1/2 to 2/3's of the way through the laminate at the seam, but tapering to flush several inches away. The right hand image shows the ground out hollow area filled. Lay in fabric and thickened epoxy. If you can figure out a way to mash a piece of stiff plastic or coated plywood to the transom, it'll make fairing a lot easier.

In other words, don't just fill the seams and call it good, because they'll come right back as cracks.

[blaze_125]

If you can figure out a way to mash a piece of stiff plastic or coated plywood to the transom, it'll make fairing a lot easier.

:confused:
I don't understand what you mean?

[PAR]

Most novices try to use a putty knife, much like working a drywall seam and smooth out the freshly filled repair. This is fine, but usually requires a good bit of fairing afterward. If you can hold a flat plate of something goo will not stick to against it, during the cure, it will reveal a perfectly smooth surface when you peel it off.

I use clear plastic packaging tape, plastic sheeting, mylar and a few other things to do this. On a transom, that is reasonably flat, you can use a thin piece of plywood, covered in box tape.

Fill the seams then wedge, clamp or brace this piece of plywood over the area. When the epoxy has cured, just peel it off, it'll pop right off, assuming you covered it well. The surface of the filler will need very little fairing and saves a lot of time.

[blaze_125]

its 11pm now and I just finished glassing the outside of the transom. I'll get pics sometime tomorrow cause my knees are killing me and I got to shower lol

[blaze_125]

Now that the tansom is fully glassed, I'd like to get her wet and see if I got any leaks. How long should I wait before I take her in the water? All I want to do is lay a sheet of plywood over the stringers that will act as a temporary floor, and back her up in the water and stay docked for about an hour.

So how long do I wait before I wet the fresh fiberglass?
Once I know I got no leaks, I'll fiberglass the top side of the transom, put in a new sole and install the accessories(motor, electronics, seats, ...)

[blaze_125]

Most novices try to use a putty knife, much like working a drywall seam and smooth out the freshly filled repair. This is fine, but usually requires a good bit of fairing afterward. If you can hold a flat plate of something goo will not stick to against it, during the cure, it will reveal a perfectly smooth surface when you peel it off.

I just read that part for the tenth time and now I'm wondering...
Do you mean I was supposed to fill the seam with thickened epoxy only?
I layed a thick bead of thickened epoxy over the seam, worked it in, faired it, then layed fiberglass over it. Once I covered all the seams with thickened epoxy and fiberglass, I went ahead and fiberglassed the whole transom area with a regular mix of epoxy. On the seams, I put thickened epoxy then 2 layers of 6oz with regular mix epoxy. Then I layed 3 layers of 6oz with regular epoxy mix over the whole transom area. So the seams end up having 5 layers of 6oz.

[blaze_125]

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_outerskin-glassed1.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=outerskin-glassed1.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_outerskin-glassed2.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=outerskin-glassed2.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_outerskin-glassed3.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=outerskin-glassed3.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_outerskin-glassed4.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=outerskin-glassed4.jpg)

[PAR]

Yes, that's right, you only needed thickened epoxy and fabric in the seams. Typically you feather the seams back about 4" each side of the seam. This is a taper that's ground into the transom skin. Inside this hollowed out area (the seam is in the middle of it) you'd apply thickened goo and some fabric.

As you have it done, she's over built, which isn't a bad thing, assuming you have enough room (transom thickness) to slide the outboard bracket over. Smooth it up and paint.

Give the goo a day or so to insure a good cure, then splash her if you want. I wouldn't bother, you should be able to tell with a stripped out boat if it has any holes in it.

[blaze_125]

new hardware is slowing getting installed :)
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_hardwareOn1.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=hardwareOn1.jpg)

The drain plug was epoxied on the transom, and the bolts were also dipped in epoxy.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_hardwareOn2.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=hardwareOn2.jpg)

Now here's a possible problem... My steering system uses a cable.
As you can see in these pictures, the protective cover is broken.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_steeringCable1.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=steeringCable1.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_steeringCable2.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=steeringCable2.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_steeringCable3.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=steeringCable3.jpg)

The cable is about 2 feet too long. It makes a loop inside the boat before coming out to get attached on the motor. Since I have that extra length, can I cut and recrimp the cable?

[PAR]

The transom drain you've used is actually a garboard drain. It's designed for a screw in fitting, not a plug. A transom drain is little more then a brass or bronze tube, usually 1" in diameter, which is epoxied in place. No bolts or threads, just drill a hole, butter it up with goo and insert. It's also a lot cheaper too. But, it's too late, you got it in there, just remember to use the proper type of plug.

No, you can't cut the cable and recrimp (you have no idea how many times I've wanted to also). The loop doesn't hurt anything and offers some flex in the system too. Replace the boot.

Also measure the thickness of the transom and check this against the transom bracket on the outboard. It'll be a hell of a lesson, if you've made it too thick and have completely reassembled everything before you realize this.

[blaze_125]

I used the original drain that came with the boat:confused:

Which part is the boot?
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_steeringCable2.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=steeringCable2.jpg)

And I'll check the transom thickness/motor bracket

[PAR]

Unfortunately a number of manufactures have done this. Bayliner is famous for it. I don't know, they might have bought up a big lot on the cheap and have been whittling it down ever since.

There may not be a boot, but it usually is a corrugated rubber cone that fits over the cable and is attached under a ring where it goes out of the splash well (into the side wall of the boat). It keeps water from get past the splash well, into the boat.

[blaze_125]

oh, I see what you mean now.
What I meant by "the protective cover is broken", is... if you look at the steering cable itself(1 inch below the label) where the metal part starts... whatever covers the cable inside is broken:
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/steeringCable2.jpg
That's the part I'm wondering if I can cut and recrimp.

[PAR]

The cable sheath can't be re-crimped. A replacement will be around 40 bucks at full retail.

[blaze_125]

I finnaly started piecing together a seat pedestral. I was debating buying something of the shelf for about 100$ or build my own for a fraction of the cost...

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_SeatPedestral1.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=SeatPedestral1.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_SeatPedestral2.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=SeatPedestral2.jpg)

That will hold the seat up. Now I gotta get seats, a swivel mechanism and I got to find a way to lock the swivel for when I'm driving the boat... I most concerned about the seat base width where it be bolted in the floor. I find the base is a bit small, but it will be bolted through 1.5" thick plywood using t-nuts, and 4 3/8"X2" bolts.

[PAR]

You do realize that's going to rust up really quickly, right?

[blaze_125]

You do realize that's going to rust up really quickly, right?

It's galvanized steel that will be coated with automotive "anti-rust", the green stuff, then painted over flat black or something. But yeah, I do realize I'll have to keep an eye on the pedestral and make sure rust doesn't get on too quickly.

[blaze_125]

To attach the seat to the pedestral I'll be using one of these:
http://www.rcb.ca/gfx/seatimgs/p_universal_seat_swivel.jpg

Those don't have a locking mechanism and the one that do, don't look very sturdy at all!!!

So yeah, I'll bolt that onto the pedestral and keep it simple for locking as you can see in this crappy photoshop attempt.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_SeatPedestral-Lock.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=SeatPedestral-Lock.jpg)

Just a simple spring loaded bolt that will go through a set of holes in the swivel base.

And I might ditch the galvanized steel pedestral for one of these:
http://www.thesportscenterstore.com/prodimages/5467.jpg
But I think those are made of mild steel... so rust is still a problem. The main advantage of of those pedestal is the width of the base. Being wider, the weight it carries will be better distributed on the floor and bolts holding it all together.

[blaze_125]

There ya go...

Right now, instead of 4 I got 3 bolts attaching the swivel to the seat. I'm using the empty for the spring loaded bolt. I may need to think that one again, but for now it puts theory into practice and shows it actually works.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_SwivelLock1.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=SwivelLock1.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_SwivelLock2.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=SwivelLock2.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_SwivelLock3.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=SwivelLock3.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_SwivelLock4.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=SwivelLock4.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_SwivelLock5.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=SwivelLock5.jpg)
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_SwivelLockSeat1.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=SwivelLockSeat1.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_SwivelLockSeat2.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=SwivelLockSeat2.jpg) http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_SwivelLockSeat3.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=SwivelLockSeat3.jpg)

As you can see, I'm getting rid of the custom piping and I got a "real" pedestral instead.

[David Valle]

Amazingly good research for a hobby project good job blaze.

thanks for all the pics

How do you plan to fix the base? Seats look good but maybe too top heavy?
I'm going to be doing the same job on the yellow boat. I also have a 16mm marine ply sole and srews seem too weak. Using parts that will rust concerns me ( although you did mention fresh water lake ) . T

[blaze_125]

*See attachement for better understanding*
On the picture, the brownish parts represent the stringers and crossmembers; the light grey represents the floor, the darkey grey represents the seat locations.

The front seats(the one pictured above) will be located between 2 crossmembers. In those locations, the floor will be reinforced with a second layer of plywood that will be epoxied to the underside of the floor. That second layer will be cut to snuggly fit between the stringers and crossmembers. Doing so will give more meat for the bolts to grab onto. Because of the rather small coverage of the base, I'm affraid I may end up ripping the pedestral from the floor if I bolt it down onto a single layer of plywood. I find it hard to explain how I see it, but I'm 99.99% sure that 2 layers will be stronger than 1.

Once the floor and reinforcements are in place, I'll lay the whole peice in the boat over the stringers and I'll position the seat to the desired location. With the seats positioned, I'll mark the pedestral bolts locations. The floor will then be taken out of the boat, and I'll drill the holes for the pedestral bolts. I'll put t-nuts in the drilled holes and call it a day.

Using a t-nut/bolt combo will be way better than using regular self-tapping screws for multiple reasons.

bolts are usually strongers than screws
if you remove/re-inserts screws you end up damaging the plywood and after a few times, you need to use bigger screws because the hole doesn't offer enough grip anymore
screws rely on the screw thread to spread the load; t-nuts/bolts rely on the t-nuts surface to spread the load
unless you get big screws, screws have less surface than bolts. Less surface = less resistance = seats ripping off the sole fare more easily
screws spread the load all around it. T-nuts/Bolts spread the load all around the bolt thread surface, and the t-nuts spead it even more from under. So you spread the load on 2 axis instead of 1.
and some others I can't think of right now


So using t-nuts/bolts I can remove the pedestral a million times and still use the same holes and bolts to put it back on. You won't be able to do that with self-tapping screws.

Seats look good but maybe too top heavy?
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
The seat is a Walmart special lol I already dumped alot more money into this project that I originally thaught, so I have to cut somewhere... When I started this project, I was supposed to only replace the seats and transom. Turned out I had to do everything I just did and spend way more than I thaught I ever would. I kept all my receipts aside, I can't wait to see the actual amount of money invested in that boat. I paid the boat/motor/trailer combo 1700Cdn$ last year...


T-nuts:
I'm using 3/8" hardware.
http://www.allproducts.com/metal/tungmao/15-prong_t_nut.jpg

[PAR]

Make sure they're stainless and use an anti seize compound on the machine blots when you insert them. Then bed the pedestal bases and the fastener head well, or moisture will travel down the treads, into you're efforts.

[blaze_125]

Anti-seize? Really? I was actually thinking blue lock-tight for some reason...
Lock-tight would make a semi water proof thread, and yet still easily be removable with an impact. But I guess even if the bolt is stainless and doesn't rust. the minerals carried by the water down the threads will end up rusting and freeze the bolt with "surface rust".

I'll dump 1 of the t-nuts and a bolt into a bucket of salted water for a few days to see if it starts rusting or not.

The plans for tonight... Epoxy the crossmembers in place, epoxy the underside of the sole, measure motor bracket vs transom thickness, design bracket to hold the bilge pump(s)

8 days away from d-day and counting.

[blaze_125]

As I was doing the epoxy on the crossmembers... I ran out!!!
7 days and counting...

And I dumped a bolt and a t-nut in a mix of water/salt/vinegar. 12 hours later, the bolt is turning blackish, the t-nut seems intact. I'll give it an extra 36 hours.

It looks like the motor bracket is 1/16" bigger than the transom... it'll be a tight fit lol

[PAR]

Your salt water test should be wet, then dry, then wet, each time allowing it to evaporate then get wet again.

Blind nuts are great (T nuts) but if a bolt has corrosion on it, then it'll tear out it's grip on the wood and now you have a bolt that can't come out, just spinning in the hole. Some anti seize solves the problem.

[blaze_125]

The cross members are now fully epoxied!
And I just baught an engine crane so I don't have to break my back trying to put the motor back on :p I so can't wait to put it back together :D

6days and counting; The in-laws are killing my time line though, I got to head to their place tonight, sleep over, and come back home sometime saturday during the day. That's like 12-18 hours of work gone!

[blaze_125]

No pics, but the floor is in. The rear end got its first coat of epoxy and I'll top it off tonight with a second coat or thickened epoxy.

[blaze_125]

Small update...

Sole ready for carpet. I'll find something to fill the gaps on the side of the sole and make it even all around.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_ReadyForCarpet.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=ReadyForCarpet.jpg)

I couldn't find anything else than black bed liner, so I went out and got some "grass carpet".
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_carpet.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=carpet.jpg)

Right under the transom well there is an access to the bilge pump.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_Accesstobilgepump.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=Accesstobilgepump.jpg)

And obviously, it can be closed or open.
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/th_BilgeAccessClosed.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/blaze_125/BoatRepairPics/?action=view&current=BilgeAccessClosed.jpg)

[PAR]

I would strongly recommend against carpet. It traps moisture between it and the sole, which eventually causes moisture to get into things you've just fixed. Carpet has ruined more soles then anything else.

[blaze_125]

even the plastic carpets? There is absolutely no fabric in that carpet, it's all plastic and rubber.

[PAR]

Plastic carpets are just as bad. The moisture gets between them and the sole, eventually causing problems.

[blaze_125]

then what should be put down on the sole other than bed liner?

[blaze_125]

After all, I figured I'd lay down the carpeting anyway... I'll try to keep an eye on moisture for what it's worth. Carpet hides defects and lack of finition and it makes things looks prettier. I'm good with the ruff stuff, but making things pretty isn't my strenght yet lol

I also got the motor back on there. Tomorrow I'll hook up the wires and fire it up.

I put a bunch of bricks all over the sole to press the carpet into the glue for a good 18h, so I'll take pics once the bricks are off.