Building a Small Boat

[mgriffin]

I am thinking of building a small boat, as the title says. I have numorous questions about regulations for motor boats though. Would it be illegal to boat on a canal? I am guessing yes, since I don't see any other boats on the canal. How am I supposed to know where I can go in my boat if there are no "Keep out" signs? The boat I am going to build is going to have a shallow draft of maybe 2-3 inches so I could go alot of places that a normal motorboat cannot go. Even over weirs, but I would have to have a rope tied to her and to a tree or something to keep her from going over to fast. I was also thinking about putting some kind of reattachable trailer on her so I could land her and jack her up and attach the trailer and pull her on the bank around rapids. Yes, I said pull her around rapids. She is going to only be 8 feet in length with 4 feet in beam. The trailer will have only two wheels so I could use it kind of like a wheel barrow, instead of pushing, I will be pulling though. And the engine, I was pondering and I got the idea to just get one off of a lawnmower and attach it to a propeller. It will be outboard so I can keep her shallow draft if I run into shallow waters. I would of course put the outboard up for going over weirs and such stuff. I might have to use a pole and push her in shallow water though.
thank you alot,
mgriffin

[apex1]

In dreamland, as I was tought, everything is allowed with no permission needed.
But if the canal is connecting dreamland with the "unreal" world, a permit might be a issue.
To get a valuable answer it would help to know which canal we are talking.

Regards
Richard

[mgriffin]

I don't really live in dreamland you know. The canal I want to float my boat in is the virgin river. (I call rivers canals).
thank you alot,

[apex1]

ok Ill do that, naturally!! So you should too!

[mgriffin]

Thanks :)
thanks again and btw, I made a rough sketch of the boat on paint. Yes, I am going to buy a cad soon, you do not have to give me one. It is not worth the trouble.
That is the actual hull shape of the boat. It will have a pointed bow, but it will be flat, not curved. ease of construction....:D

[mgriffin]

NVM. What do I need a cad for? I already drew a detailed diagram on some graph paper, so it is to scale. And it is not just a pretty picture, it is the plans for it. I am about to draw the cuts I will need to make in the wood, and the amount of 1/4 inch plywood sheeting I will need.

[PAR]

Mike, the shapes you've drawn will displace 1,380 pounds when floating with 3" submerged.

This shape will require a lot of power to propel. It will bash through the water like a snow plow and be terribly inefficient, particularly with a modest output inboard.

A hull like that will steer like a pig, be very difficult to maneuver on a low power inboard and of course it'll pound badly.

It's not possible to have an inboard and a few inches of draft. Just can't be done without a tunnel hull or other consideration.

I'm assuming from your drawing that it's 16' long, 6' in beam and has normal standing headroom inside the pilothouse.

Bending plywood around simple shapes is easy and the water likes it a whole lot better then angles at low speeds. If the sides are perpendicular to the bottom then it's real easy. Reconsider your shapes.

Assuming my scale from your drawing is correct, you'd need at least 15 sheets of plywood to build a minimum boat. Even the lightest ply will weight 300 pounds, before glue, fasteners, engine, fuel, etc. Frankly, a shape like that will probably be over 500 pounds (raw hull only), so portaging her isn't as likely as you might think, without a truck.

As far as getting around on local waterways, you can go where ever you like. Restricted areas will be marked on the charts for that area.

[lewisboats]

You might want to recalculate PAR...he said it was 8x4...I'll ditto everything else you said tho.

Steve

[erik818]

mgriffin,
Double the length and make the shape more canoelike from the middle and forwards to serve as a wavecutter. Adjust the measurements to suit the plywood you are using. Let the sides be e.g. 2 sheets long. Keep the flat bottom you suggest, but with a slight rocker (4" or so) starting 1/4 from the fore. 1/4" plywood should be fine. Whatever superstructure you build should be extremely light or the boat will tip over. I suggest you skip the superstructure for a starter, you can always add it later.

The weight should end up at 100 kg or less, perfectly possible to move by hand to pass rapids if you arrange so you can attach a pair of bicycle wheels at the sides.

The draft will be a few inches with you on board. I suggest a small outboard on the reinforced transom (1 - 2 hp) and paddles when the water isn't deep enough.

You need to use plywood with water proof glue (preferrably marine grade) and epoxy for scarfing and for taping seams. Keep the boat simple and cheap. It won't last forever, but within a few years you will start on your next boat project anyway.

Good luck,
Erik

[mgriffin]

Sorry about the 6 x 16 confusion. I drew that on paint, that is not the drawing for the plans. I don't know how to draw scale drawings on paint. And about the outboard, if I made it an inboard, then it would have a better draft. And your right about the sleekness of the hull. I will redesign. It will not be very easy making curves in a boat and keeping the flat bottom though.

[PAR]

Okay, I missed the size thing, oops.

An 8' boat is ungodly small. I just mailed off a set of my plans for a dinghy (RYD-8.4). It's 10' over all and it's ridiculously small too.

You need to climb into a yacht tender and think about your size requirements again. Sit down in it and try to picture where everything will go.

[mgriffin]

Your right... How about 12 feet? 4 feet wide?

[rasorinc]

Lots of posts here on conversion of weed eater engines for shallow running with a mud type prop. They mount on a pole so you can lift them out of the water. Lite too. They act as your rudder also.

[ancient kayaker]

Okay, I missed the size thing, oops.

An 8' boat is ungodly small. I just mailed off a set of my plans for a dinghy (RYD-8.4). It's 10' over all and it's ridiculously small too.

You need to climb into a yacht tender and think about your size requirements again. Sit down in it and try to picture where everything will go.

I think 10' LOA is cute, not ridiculous!

[PAR]

I'm sorry Terry, I certainly didn't mean to offend you. By the way, your plans went out at the first of the week (as you may have guessed from the last post). You should get them in a few days. I was at a boat show this weekend and sat in a few "little" boats, from a buddy's shop. I guess I'm getting sticky for elbow room as I age.

At 12', you're getting into the cute little harbor tug range, well okay the very small end of that range, but doable. Normal standing headroom will be difficult to get without it looking like a Winnebago is parked on a barge, but sitting headroom (all you really need) is possible. An inboard will still be very difficult to justify, but possible at the cost of huge chunks of interior space and draft.

Mud motors are an option, but they are typically tiller steered, you generally don't have reverse or neutral either, making maneuvering around tight spots are chore to say the least. Personally I think all boats should have neutral and reverse gears. You pretty much have to have them, if you'll not employ tiller steering.

This leaves the outboard (again) as the logical choice. It can be mounted in a well or box so you don't have to hear, see or smell it and you can have a remote helm with gear selection too.

Several of these types of little harbor tug plans exist, some low cost or free. I toyed with a little tug design (16') a few years ago, but never developed the plans to completion. I considered the market too small to warrant a "spec" job, so I put in a drawer.

On the other side of the coin there are also "shanty" boats and "micro cruisers" to select from. Most of these are children only a mother could love, but are usually simple to build on a budget. You don't even want to know my opinion of these little floating boxes, but some folks love them. I consider these little more then dressed up concrete mixing tubs, but what do I know.

[lewisboats]

Mommy! Ok...here's MY concrete mixing box...'scuze me...tub :)

http://angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks/Images/ChugBuildPics/PA030008.JPG

4 or 5 have been built and a few stretched versions are on the verge.This is the original at 12 ft long and 4 ft wide. PAR is right tho...sitting headroom is about all you can expect from something this small. Even then...visibility is a TAD on the restricted side. Best to rig up a steering station on the aft bulkhead of the cabin and " stand your watch".

[lewisboats]

Here's another waterbago...Jonbird. This was designed as a river runner to go from the headwaters of the missouri to the gulf...in a bit of comfort. Maybe this can give you some ideas.

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/contest/2/dwg.gif

You can read more about it here: http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/contest/2/free.cfm

[mgriffin]

Yeah, but I guess that you aren't a true boater if you haven't been afraid of 2 foot waves...

[mgriffin]

Mommy! Ok...here's MY concrete mixing box...'scuze me...tub :)

http://angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks/Images/ChugBuildPics/PA030008.JPG

4 or 5 have been built and a few stretched versions are on the verge.This is the original at 12 ft long and 4 ft wide. PAR is right tho...sitting headroom is about all you can expect from something this small. Even then...visibility is a TAD on the restricted side. Best to rig up a steering station on the aft bulkhead of the cabin and " stand your watch".

Where did you get that picture from? That is the exact boat I was thinking of! (Not the flat bow though... kinda ugly)
thank you alot,

[ancient kayaker]

Cute! Looks like a PDRacer that's been fed the wrong diet. PAR - no offense taken, I was amused!

[mgriffin]

Could somebody give me a general idea what the superstucture of that type of boat looks like?
thanks,

[mgriffin]

Why don't I just have a sail instead of an outboard? Well, I could still have the outboard for backup.
Thanks,
Mike

[PAR]

You're looking at it. Plywood sides, roof, probably a few beams, some window trim, that's about it.

[lewisboats]

Where did you get that picture from? That is the exact boat I was thinking of! (Not the flat bow though... kinda ugly)
thank you alot,

I built it and that ugly wart manning the motor is me. A friend of mine took the picture. As far as the "superstructure" goes...what you see is what you get. It was cut from 1 1/2 sheets of ply, the curved moulding is just that...moulding. Believe me...it took a bit of horsepower and fancy footwork to get that stick to bend like that without steaming.

Here is the inside:

http://www.angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks/Images/ChugBuildPics/PA020002.JPG


a small panel drops into the slot to make a 7ft double berth

This is NOT designed for sail...the hull is completely wrong for sailing to be frank. You would have to reshape the bottom which would preclude planing with a motor so you would be stuck maxing out at about 5 or 6 mph. Besides...on a beam reach you would probably go further sideways than forward with all that flat panel windage...besides I though you wanted to go on river and canals...no real room to sail there unless you hit an impoundment.

[mgriffin]

Yeah. I'll stick with the mud motor. Would you recommend making the front of her come to an edge like a regular boat? Say if you were looking at her from the side, she would look like her bow is flat (like your design) but on my design, her bow come to an edge and you can see that looking from the top.

Thanks,
Mike

[mgriffin]

How come I only have 10 rep points? I should have about 30 by now... Yeah, I jumped projects, but that doesn't mean I'm undereducated. I have made the final decision, and that is to build a 12 foot boat. Why don't I start with an rc boat? I figured that I could use the time waiting to move designing my boat. It's better than being bored all of those months. And yes, I will post pictures of the building process and all of that good stuff. I will even post pictures of it completed and running. I hope I will get more rep points when you see that I have designed and built my own boat.

Mike

[ancient kayaker]

If you click on user CP you can see if anyone has docked you points. Negative points is a feature a lot of us dislike.

[mgriffin]

Nobody docked my points...

[PAR]

Mike build something like this. I penned it up in a few minutes.

12'x 4' though it would be a lot more stable at 5' or better in beam, though it's efficiency will drop quickly.

This shape will handle chop and passing powerboat wakes much better then the floating shoe boxes others seem to enjoy. It looks like a boat, it has full standing headroom, requires very modest power and will leave a clean, unmolested wake.

I'd not use a mud motor, as I don't think you understand the limitations of these things. They have an 8' or so long shaft and prop sticking out the back of the boat. You have to steer it from the back and it can't be easily rigged to helm steer. It's a fine arrangement if you're needs require the few things they actual offer, but your needs aren't as suited to a mud motor as you might think.

The design above will easily out perform any of the shanty boat, box boat or square micro cruiser thingies. It'll out maneuver them, use less fuel, leave a cleaner wake and look a fair bit better.

The sides, bottom, stem and stern are dead plumb, making building a piece of cake. Everything is 90 degrees. The bend in the rocker and sides is gentle and very easy to do. No beveled chine logs or frames either. The twin skegs will permit it to beach bolt up right too. 5 to 15 HP will work fine.

Would you rather be seen in one of these or one of the concrete mixing tub/boats?

[Manie B]

Par i like your design - it will most definately work well

when i built my "Chigger" the initial idea was to see how well it would plane - hence the upturned bow and completely flat bottom (like a water ski). I also had a 15 hp outboard on loan and my own 5 hp Mercury. Now with hindsight i can assure you that i would build it with rocker in the bottom as your drawing indicates and a plumb bow that cuts trough the water. 5 hp two stroke outboard is PLENTY - believe me you dont need more. I weigh 90 kgs = 190 lbs? and the boat would plane with me in it @ 5 hp WOT
Having said that i can once again assure you that you dont want to go that fast in a 12' x 4' (4m x 1.2m) boat. You will soon see that you want to cruise comfortably with sitting head room under the cabin roof to escape the sun. You dont want to skim over the top of the water - you want to cut through it.

the pictures show the boat on its maiden voyage (incomplete) when i slept on it - and painted and finished by its new owner

absolutely loads of fun - turns heads ALL the time - people absolutely LOVE the boat

i will always recommend build a small boat first
buy plans from somebody like PAR he has got the drawing setup going well

and finally i can assure you that the hull design of PAR will work extremely well :D AND handle waves when the wind comes up VERY IMPORTANT

[Manie B]

oh and one other thing

i would go 5' wide and not 4'
much more comfortable

12' long is OK

(4m x 1.5m)

[mgriffin]

Looks like a good boat to me, might actually go fast. I like the mini tug look.
thanks alot (really),
mike

[mgriffin]

Found the engine I'm gonna use. No, I'm not going to use an outboard, don't like the outboard look on a tugboat. I would rather have an inboard so I could have the exshaust pipe behind the cabin like a reglular tug.
http://www.ameerrajkot.com/htm/engines/cae_55.html

[PAR]

Your draft will increase dramatically, your steering will become very sluggish in comparison to an outboard and you'll need a transmission, plus you can't easily remove it, like an outboard. Those engines are also very heavy for their output, very old technology being used there. Consider a Hatz portable instead if you must go diesel. You'll still need a transmission and have crappy steering but you will not have such a weight penalty.

You can hide an outboard in a well and/or a box so it's out of sight.

[apex1]

Thanks Paul, very nice little tug! I think thats a perfect match with Mike´s needs and skills. And I agree with the outboard.

Regards
Richard

[mgriffin]

ok. I'll stay outboard. (aww!!!) Thanks 4 the boat design. looks like the boat I was thinking of!
Thanks,

[mgriffin]

Do I use regular window glass or plexiglass for the tug? does it really matter?
thanks,

[apex1]

Use Plexi it´s lighter and for a river it does not matter.
Regards
Richard

[PAR]

I prefer glass, but not just any glass, laminated glass, just like the stuff they use in car windshields. Yep, it's heavier then acrylic or polycarbonate, but it's usually cheaper. More importantly, you can clean it and it doesn't "weather" like the plastics do. Plastics tend to scratch when you clean them and they discolor with age and UV exposure. Laminated glass (available at any glass shop) is available in a few different tints too.

[mgriffin]

O.k. Thanks! I'll start building it as soon as possible. (a few more months)
thanks!

[mgriffin]

This proves there are tugboats smaller than mine. https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=525
I like the stitch and glue construction idea. might use that on my boat. And I'll use window glass PAR.
Don't like plexiglass that weathers and scratches easily.

[mgriffin]

I want to be able to fish in my boat. Will that type of boat be good for holding a few salty fish? Maybe even a hammerhead or a bullshark....
You know, since I'm going to live by the ocean, draft doesn't really matter...So I MIGHT go inboard. I don't really care about the tranny. I can get one.
Thanks,

[rasorinc]

Here is a very nice Tug. They have larger Tug designs.
https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=879

It takes as much work to build an ugly boat as a pretty boat.

[mgriffin]

Oh yeah. Saw that one while ago, looks to expensive though.

[rasorinc]

Less than $2,300.00 in wood and F/B glass over where I live. Plus engine and drive and to save on that build in a used outboard.

[mgriffin]

Do you think that the lauan ply from home depot is good for boatbuilding? It doesn't have to be top quality.

[mgriffin]

I have decided the boat I am going to build. It is what you would call a punt. This punt will be 7 feet long, 4 feet wide. Hell, it's my first boat, so cut me some slack on the size! It is not going to be flat bottomed, the bow is going to be 1ft deep & 2 feet wide. The stern is going to be 3 feet wide and 1.5 feet deep. It will be exactly like the boat in the picture, but it's bow and stern will be flat, not at an angle. Also, the thwart will be attached to the gunwales.

[ben2go]

Here's some free plans to ponder over.Scroll down.You'll see them.

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans.htm

Also check out Lewis' site.

http://www.angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks/html/main_a.htm

[apex1]

Nice idea, good decision, affordable boat! 10 points mate!

[mgriffin]

Hello Apex. I like the pram idea myself, and if it doesn't work out, I have a wonderful backup plan. You are probably asking yourself, "Doesn't Work?" What I mean by doesn't work is if I can't build it for 230 dollars, then it will be no problem. I designed a failproof backup boat that I am tempted to build instead of that pram, but I should start with the pram first even though the backup boat is only 8 long and 4 wide. The backup boat looks very nice and uses minimal framing, in fact, the only framing is to hold up the passenger seating area roof, which covers the seats that are waterproof to act as flotation compartments. If the outboard on my backup boat fails, no problem. I designed the seats along the walls of the hull so your back would be AGAINST the hull, but there are two pegs on each seat to hold a rowing board in place. I doubt the pram will fail, but I am going to build the pram first, then this boat. I could go on all day about the backup plan boat, but it would be easier to show you the plans. So I have my first and second boats planned. Pram first, then the Water Strider. (thats the name).

[mgriffin]

I was thinking about building them both out of lauan ply. Is that a good choice? I keep hearing about people building boats with it (like first boats or expiremental boats).

[apex1]

I was thinking about building them both out of lauan ply. Is that a good choice? I keep hearing about people building boats with it (like first boats or expiremental boats).

Sorry Mike I have no idea about the quality of ply sold in the US, I just know there are unbelievable different qualities sold under the same name, so, i cannot comment on that. But ask PAR, if there is one to answer that question, it is him.
Regards
Richard

[kerosene]

my experience of home depot ply would be a definite NO for boat building.

Search for marine plywood. Yes it is more expensive but its not worth putting the effort on crappy materials.

[pistnbroke]

The quality of the ply you use depends on how much you can afford and how long you want it to last .
Even cheap ply will last a good few years in a small boat if its well coated with poly resin (10% acetone)
for the first coat ......I am sure you will move on to bigger better before long ...

[apex1]

Pistn
nobody begged you to contribute here. And if you feel to do so, you should read the thread, not one or two posts.
The Boy is 13 years old and might have a bit less than your experience.

Regards
Richard

well edited PISTN !

[Lt. Holden]

Michael,

No, Luan is not a good choice unless you can get good quality EXTERIOR graded material. Whatever you use must be laminated with waterproof adhesive.
From the description of your project, it sounds like you will need at least (2) 4'x8' sheets.

For a starter boat I would suggest Exterior Grade plywood AB or AC grade from a real lumberyard (not Home Depot). Use a good quality (3M or SIKA) Marine adhesive/sealant, brass or galvanized screws and prime and then paint with floor and deck enamel.

Your should end up with a watertight boat (that will live on land mostly) that will serve you well and last for several years while not costing a fortune.

Good luck with your project and please post some pics.

Best Regards,
John

[mgriffin]

O.k got it. Lumberyard. I can do that. I am moving to Texas in 4-5 months, lumber from lumberyards should be cheap down there since where I am going to live will be COVERED in trees which means cheap wood. I found the engine (34 cc) and the clutch (centrifugal). I am still looking for a prop. I am going to make a homemade outboard. I will post pictures of my boat when it is built. I will also take pictures of the building process of the boat and the homemade outboard.

[apex1]

Mike my dear, you´re silly! They "give" you outboards for free at EVERY marina out there, just ask for the time, and you´ll need a truck to bring them home. Make one out of three, but do´nt make one yourself, please! Stay with us. We enjoy your way to get into the "boating world". And ever so often we enjoy your stubborn way to get it done "another" way. That is valid for all of us who contributed to your threads, be shure. (Iknowthesemadpeers)

Regards
Richard

[mgriffin]

Well, Damn man! you should've told me! I just might save a few bucks and get an easy repair job that makes my boat do 20 knots!
thanks very much,

[Lt. Holden]

Mike, In that case let's build an 8' mini-Max hydroplane next!

[mgriffin]

You mean 8', not 8". I like the mini max also. Maybe the super spartan?

[mgriffin]

Or a runabout? how about the picklefork 3 point hydro?

[mgriffin]

I would go for a 10' runabout that I would use as a car on the water.

[apex1]

I would go for a 10' runabout that I would use as a car on the water.

Calm down, hey!
We will let you go for a aircraftcarrier...................................as soon as we know how to build!;)

[mgriffin]

Alright. I am still going to build a 10 foot runabout as my 2nd boat or 3rd boat :D.

[mgriffin]

The runabout is probably going to be my 3rd boat.

[mgriffin]

C:\Users\Mike\Documents\How to make a website.odt Hello, I am finally back. I am trying an expirement. I need one of you to c&p the link to your browser and see what happens. Nice progress on the boat. I e-mailed the guy selling the plans. I am going to purchase them soon. I will surprise you when you see what my boat looks like. (7.5 foot with an inboard?!)

[lewisboats]

That would work on your computer but there is no web address so anyone else will get a page not found because it is pointing to a folder that doesn't exist on their computer. You have to upload your pages to a server then post the URL to it.

[apex1]

I have decided the boat I am going to build. It is what you would call a punt. This punt will be 7 feet long, 4 feet wide. Hell, it's my first boat, so cut me some slack on the size! It is not going to be flat bottomed, the bow is going to be 1ft deep & 2 feet wide. The stern is going to be 3 feet wide and 1.5 feet deep. It will be exactly like the boat in the picture, but it's bow and stern will be flat, not at an angle. Also, the thwart will be attached to the gunwales.

So now, what was wrong with that boat Mike?

[mgriffin]

It is that boat. Just a little different. It will be EXACTLY the same, JUST not a flat bottom, and I don't think any self designed boats that I designed are really going to convince my parents that it is going to work. That is why I decide to buy designs instead of making my own. I like the fact that the boat I am going to build is not the first one so I know it works.

[mgriffin]

Speaking of the boat I am going to build, I am going to order plans this weekend. They're only 22.50$.
This is the boat that I am going to buy plans for:
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/weevee/index.htm

[apex1]

Speaking of the boat I am going to build, I am going to order plans this weekend. They're only 22.50$.
This is the boat that I am going to buy plans for:
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/weevee/index.htm

Yes my friend, that will not only convince your parents, but PAR and Rasor and me too!!!! And if you (wrong) when you made it come true, or while you? let us have a share of the task.
OK?

I´ve said that before (but old people reply thier crap), make it a "happening" we can share, and be shure, if you stay honest and frank, the forum will lead you to a achievable goal!
If you have the plans (or as soon as you have), make shure, at least PAR and me should know.

There are some miracles in this world, you will notice later, (many people believe they know sooner), that make dreams come true in easier ways, than the hard ones.

But first you have to dream, than to reduce to the possible, and after that.......to the affordable.!.!.!

Show us the task now!
We will handle it!

Yours
sincerely
Richard

[PAR]

I question the soundness of this particular design for your needs. This boat will be quite tender (tipsy) if the CG is very high. If you place a cabin on this boat, it surely would raise the CG enough to cause it to flop over on one of the chines. If used as intended (rowing) then the CG is kept low and centered, which is just what this design requires. This design will be very slow under oars or paddle and if attempts to push it past 4 MPH, it will pile up a huge wave train and point it's bow to the sky. 1 HP would be enough to move to 4 MPH, with 2 HP having the ability to over power her in calm conditions. What's your logic behind this selection?

[mgriffin]

I liked the Vee bottom. I am not going to add a cabin though! that would be a waste of money! And as for the engine, I am going to find an old 1.5 mebbe 2 hp. that can be easily fixed up. It will be an inboard, the shaft running thru the keel, so the prop will not touch land if she is grounded. The rudder will be on the stern, and will not go past the boats keel. So, imagine, if the boat were grounded, the only thing touching the sand/dirt/etc. would be the keel of the boat. That is one of the reasons I chose the Vee bottom, is because of the advantage of the the keel being lower than the prop and the rudder.
Another reason I chose the Vee bottom is becuase of the stability in rough seas, or rough rivers (haha) or rough lakes (again). Speed doesn't really matter to me PAR, and I'm not going to use oars (EVER!!!). I might have to put a mast on her though to keep from rowing if the engine dies (hopefully not). Oh and one last IMPORTANT thing PAR: I am going to put a centrifugal clutch on the engine so if the prop hits land or something.

[PAR]

A V hull shaped like that is considerable less stable then a flat bottom of similar area. I wouldn't want to stand up in a hull shaped like that. If you sneeze, it's going to roll.

[mgriffin]

Ok. I understand. I'm sure it will be like riding a bike, once you get the hang of balancing, you're pretty dang good. Oh ya, and for the record, I learned to ride a bike WITHOUT training wheels when I was 3.

[lewisboats]

kerchoo... glub glub glub Nice visual!
Perhaps a different approach. Think of the chine as a support for the boat. The sharper the angle the more the support or stability. INITIAL stability...this means that a flat bottom has the most initial stability. Flare on the sides adds secondary stability as the boat heels but seeing as you are concentrated on a vee bottom we will only look at the chine and its relationship with the bottom. The more of a vee or round the bottom has the less INITIAL stability the boat will have relative to the beam of the boat. This makes it very tippy, tipsy or whatever you want to call it. The one you have picked has a lot of vee and therefore is very unstable unless you are keeping the GC as low as possible. Like PAR says...sneeze too hard and this one might just roll over on you if you aren't careful. I think for your purposes you might look for something with a little less vee and a bit more stability (initial).

[pistnbroke]

[QUOTE I learned to ride a bike WITHOUT training wheels when I was 3.[/QUOTE]

Would that make it a 3 wheeler ???

and I agree with the opinions on the V hull ...if you read it carefully even the designer has problems getting into it ...could you not progressivly reduce the v so that at the rear its say 10 deg to add stability . Also if you intend to fit an outboard you need the transom tilted at 15 deg or you will have trim/steering issues

[mgriffin]

It will have an inboard. I am not changing my mind about my choice of boat. Oh and if a bike had training wheels it would be a 4 wheeler.

[lewisboats]

Bon Voyage then... hope things work out better than I suspect they will.

Steve

[pistnbroke]

First rule of successfull business

"always employ a teenager they know it all"

But having said that good luck and send us some photos when its all finished .....

[mgriffin]

I will. Trust me. (Send photos)
BTW, I don't know everthing, I know alot! :D
I was thinking, the engine will weigh about half as much as the boat, and it's low COG will act as ballast. Might anyway.
After I build my boat, I was thinking of ways to earn money, well, I thought of a few ways, for example, I could fish for paddlefish and sell them (they are a food fish and their eggs sell for good money), or I could catch gator gars (They are cosidered a delicacy, Kinda hard to catch them in a small boat, near impossible...), I might also collect scrap metal. Any other ideas?

[PAR]

Jim, by his own admissions, knows he didn't hit a home run with this design, in fact it was a bit of an experiment, that didn't work out as well as he'd hoped.

I design boats for a living and you should strongly reconsider your choice here, as it's wholly unsuitable for you're needs. You will very likely go swimming the first time you step aboard her (Jim did).

[mgriffin]

Oh yeah, to all, HAPPY MEMORIAL DAY!! (If you celebrate it) and for memorial day I shot my pellet gun. I tryed shooting a candle with it, the pellet went about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch inside it, and where the round hit it, it was all expanded on the outside of the candle and it was cracked near the surface. I took one of the pellets I fired into it, and it looked like it had been smashed. (Not surprisingly). I'm about to fire off my pellet gun now.
seeya later,

[apex1]

Mike,
I did´nt notice it was that much a poor design as it obviously seems to be. But after reading the related designers article I must say, as PAR, go for another boat that fits your needs better.
Regards
Richard

[mydauphin]

Your basically building a house boat. Not a boat. Nothing wrong with that, just you are limited in weather that you can travel in. With a small motor like that your only going to be moving from anchor point to anchoring point.

I would go with flat boat. Angle in bow like a barge. And use an outboard via a tunnel if you like. The reason is simple your going to mess with water cooling, wet or dry exhaust, a thru hull, packing, shaft seals etc... for a 2 hp.

Also 2hp is way to little power this, a strong wind will make it go backward. You need at least 5hp just to get forward movement.

Far easier, lighter, stronger and cheaper to get a fiberglass discarded hull and build your cabin on top.

[Lt. Holden]

Why the obsession with the inboard? For 2-5 hp look for a Cruise 'n Carry, Tohatsu or even a Briggs & Stratton. For the boat you need, an inboard offers (inho) no benefit whatsoever and will cost way more than it should. In fact I couldn't justify a gas o/b for your purpose; get a 30-55 lb thrust Minn Kota Endura for $100 - $150 new (less, if used) and a $70 battery and go boating. After all that is the point, isn't it?

[Rangerspeedboat]

He wants an inboard, just like I do. No amount of convincing will change his mind. Inboards are "cool" and outboards are OK. Maybe he wants an inboard becuase he has all the engine and just thinks, well I just need a few more parts. Thats my way of thinking, and I'm 15. I can see how an outboard would make more sense, but it all depends on what you want.

This is what I'm building http://www.vintageprojects.com/boats/little-boat.pdf

[mgriffin]

Let me quote that Ranger!
BTW, I'm from Texas (Galveston) too!

[Rangerspeedboat]

I'm in the Houston area, have you started work on anything yet? I have my frame almost built, just need the stem(?) the curve at the front.

[mgriffin]

No I haven't started anything yet. I am going to soon though. I bought Plans for the WeeVee boat today and I am just waiting for them to arrive via shipping. Oh yeah, Ihave relatives in Houstan. My Uncle lives there. I've been to Houstan before.

[mgriffin]

Forgot to tell you guys, we're going to drop internet soon, like when summer break begins. Oh yeah, also, I installed XP on my computer, MAN!!! my computer goes super fast! I used to wait at least 10 seconds to open a new tab, but now it does it in a split second!

[john zimmerlee]

Sound like you wrote the design criteria for my project.

You can see it at www.streamdancer.com

John Zimmerlee

[rwatson]

Forgot to tell you guys, we're going to drop internet soon, like when summer break begins. Oh yeah, also, I installed XP on my computer, MAN!!! my computer goes super fast! I used to wait at least 10 seconds to open a new tab, but now it does it in a split second!

Try Windows Ultimate - Vista 64, makes XP look like a dog.

Firefox is a lot faster than Explorer if you feel like trying it

What did you mean "we're going to drop internet soon" ?

Are you moving to the moon? :-)

[mgriffin]

NO!!!! My parents are cutting internet soon!!
I had firefox once....

[pistnbroke]

Why ?

[Rangerspeedboat]

Probably to save money.

If your going to build a boat, build it for speed. Once you get out on the water, you have this urge to go faster.

[mgriffin]

To pistnbrk: I HAD firefox once but my mom deleted for sum stupid reason.
To Ranger: If I could afford speed, I would probably buy it.

[Rangerspeedboat]

Cheap speed. Unheard of right?

Heres what I'm doing, building a small but fast boat out of cheap wood. I got an old mercury 4.5 that seized up at an outboard junkyard for 20 bucks. I have an old 4 hp toro lawnmower motor that the self propelled mechanism stopped working. I'm going to get the lower unit, chop it up and mount it to the bottom of the boat going up. Then couple the Toro motor to it with a coupler From McMaster Carr. The price for building the boat as of yet is just 20 bucks, but I'm not done. I still need the coupler, and fibreglass for water proofing the boat. That should not cost much. Maybe a total around 100 bucks, thats with free wood. oh yeah, and a rudder.

I'm sorry if I'm pushing speed, but I have a lead foot.

[mgriffin]

I love pedal to the metal too, so after I get tired of my boat I'm gonna build a half-scale (maybe half scale, maybe 3/4 scale) Ilyushin IL-2 Sturmovik attack plane. In my opinion, it's the best airplane to take to the skies. I was introduced to the airplane via a computer game called IL2 Sturmovik. Ever since I have been able to shoot down a Me-262 jet fighter with the one series (the one series is the one in the pic. below and it was the first one made). Ya don't believe me? Oh yeah, It was on hard (like real life, lim. ammo, no external veiws..etc.... The only thing I had on was icons, to show you it was an Me-262). I have managed to land in it (very hard, WAYYYYY harder than you think) and I have shot down other airplanes, blew up vehicles etc...I can even take off in it which is way easier than landing. I can't upload the pictures because it says they are invalid files. DANG!!!

[Rangerspeedboat]

An airplane is much more complicated than a boat, but if I was going to build one it would be the Later model P-51 Mustang.

[ben2go]

I like the KR2S but If money was no object it would be a basic Glasair I with an O-320.I flew a decked out Glasair I with retractable landing gear and fell in love with that aircraft.

Sorry to stray off topic.

[mgriffin]

An airplane is much more complicated than a boat, but if I was going to build one it would be the Later model P-51 Mustang.

I know how complicated they are. By the time I build it, I will be 18-16 years old.

[mgriffin]

Oh yeah, and I once read a book about homebuilt airplanes.

[apex1]

Oh yeah, and I once read a book about homebuilt airplanes.

KIEBITZ.....................................

[mgriffin]

Plover? I don't get it... And remember apex, I am still going to build that boat. I was just talking about what I am going to do after I get tired of it. So don't worry about me not sticking to the boat project.

[mgriffin]

Oh yeah, Apex, I had a question. If I built that WeeVee boat and modded it, by putting a sheet of ply to cover the top of it (like a kayak, where it is covered so water can't enter but the boater has a hole so he can enter the boat) and I added a superstructure to strengthen the hull, and maybe a a cabin thats 4' by 3.5', do you think it would be able to survive a storm at sea, maybe a hurricane? Oh yeah, it would still have the inboard motor and with all of the hatches closed it would be completely water tight. Maybe even a backup sail if the motor dies. I think top heaviness might be a problem if I added a cabin and a sail, so I would position the seat lower and the cabin would have very small windows to survive waves.

[apex1]

Oh Oh...
but you are on the right way to answer your own question.....................

And Kiebitz is this:

[mgriffin]

All I have to do today is sit in front of my computer since summer break started. If you ask me, I'm kinda bored. I'm going to start a new thread in the open discussion section. I will give the link for it. This thread has served it's purpose and I am happy that I have found a small boat that I can build. Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you I have almost saved 300 dollars, or 187.5 euros.

[apex1]

cannot tell you more than you know................
but thanks for the PM!

[PAR]

Yea, but it's not as pretty as the one I offered you . . .

[mgriffin]

Uh Pm? what Pm? (Private Message?)

[ben2go]

Yes.PM is short for private message.

[mgriffin]

yes, i know. what pm is he talking of though?

[pistnbroke]

Saw this boat design on www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk ( look in forum) and thought that a young person should be making a boat in a modern way not with frames ...once cut it would not take an hour to get to the stage shown and then its on with the poly resin...job done in a couple of days

The first design this guy did had too much V in the stern and was too tippy hence the flatter stern /transom

[apex1]

yes, i know. what pm is he talking of though?

PM Prime Minister
PM Personal Message (IRC)
PM Particulate Matter
PM St. Pierre and Miquelon (ISO country code, top level domain name)
PM Postmaster
PM Postmortem
PM Past Master
PM Provost Marshal
PM Post Meridiem (period from noon to midnight)
PM Postmistress
PM Police Magistrate
PM Pour Memoir (French: For Memory; response to RSVP)
PM Private Message
PM Panama
PM Project Management
PM Per Month
PM Project Manager
PM Power Management
PM Performance Management
PM Process Management
PM Program Manager
PM Precious Metals
PM Product Manager
PM PacMan
PM Pain Management
PM Portfolio Manager
PM Popular Mechanics (magazine)
PM PERL Module
PM Paramedic
PM Pacemaker
PM Priority Mail (USPS)
PM Practice Management
PM Performance Monitoring
PM Pentium M (Intel processor)
PM Performance Measurement
PM Preventive Maintenance
PM Plus Minus (hockey goals scored while player on/off ice)
PM PageMaker (Adobe software)
PM Preventive Medicine
PM Push Me
PM Production Manager
PM Property Manager
PM Policy Manual
PM Palma de Mallorca (Spain)
PM Pattern Matching
PM Production Management
PM Policia Militar
PM Penalty Minutes (hockey)
PM Paper Mario (N64 game)
PM Perpetual Motion
PM Phantom Menace (Star Wars)
PM Preventative Maintenance
PM Price Match
PM Plasma Membrane (lipid bilayer)
PM Procedures Manual
PM Prime Mover
PM Process Model
PM Maximum Power
PM PartitionMagic (PowerQuest)
PM Power Macintosh (Apple)
PM Police Misconduct
PM Permanent Memory
PM Phone Me
PM Precautionary Measure
PM Princess Mononoke
PM Permanent Magnet
PM Phillip Morris
PM Problem Management
PM Printed Matter
PM Production Model
PM Paymaster
PM Planned Maintenance
PM Pulp Mill
PM Program Memory
PM Paramagnetic
PM Powder Metallurgy
PM Palliative Medicine
PM Power Module
PM Prime Meridian (zero longitude)
PM Promethium
PM Paper Machine
PM Phase Modulation
PM Prime Meridian (magazine)
PM Patriot Missile
PM Pocket Monsters (Pokémon)
PM Polymyositis (Immune disease causing muscle inflammation)
PM Primeiro-Ministro (Portugal)
PM Progressive Majority
PM Production Meeting
PM Power Monitoring
PM Pure Math
PM People Meter
PM Pubblico Ministero (Italian: Public Prosecutor)
PM Periodic Maintenance
PM Procurement Manager
PM Presentation Manager (OS/2)
PM Personnel Manager
PM Pre-Menstrual
PM Project Master
PM Primary Mirror (telescopes)
PM Perception Management (corporate communications)
PM Picometer
PM Bureau of Political-Military Affairs (DoD)
PM Pontifex Maximus
PM Prototype Model (engineering)
PM Pour Mémoire (French: for the record)
PM Program Memorandum
PM Planning Module
PM Bureau of Political-Military Affairs (US State Department)
PM Purpose-Made
PM Pharmacy Manager
PM Perry Meridian (High School)
PM Pulse Modulation
PM Pipe Major
PM Puppymill
PM Patternmaker (USN Rating)
PM Platform Model (Object Management Group)
PM Pressurized Module
PM Performance Meeting
PM patient movement (US DoD)
PM Pressure Meter
PM Privilege Management (IT, middleware; networking)
PM Palm Mute (guitar technique)
PM Power Mirror
PM Planar Map
PM Philippine Marine (indigenous Marine in the Philippines)
PM Peoplemover
PM Push Money
PM Payload Module
PM Peso Mexicano (Mexican Peso)
PM Particle-Mesh
PM Photo Multiplier
PM Project Memo
PM Performance Margin
PM PERL Monk
PM Propulsion Module
PM Platinum Medallion (Delta Sky Miles)
PM Plaza Miranda (Philippines)
PM Properties Master (theatre)
PM Preço de Mercado (Portuguese: Market Price)
PM Polymer Morphology
PM Protocol Machine
PM Principles of Medicine
PM Pohjoismaiden Mestaruus (Finnish: Nordic Championship)
PM Petameter (10 E^15, one quadrillion meters)
PM Playmore Corporation (Japan)
PM peritoneal metastasis
PM Progressive Maintenance
PM Prototyping Methodology
PM Purulent Meningitis
PM Sisters of the Presentation of Mary (religious order)
PM Pedometrics
PM Plant Miscellaneous
PM Passmonster (security software)
PM Proposed Monitor
PM passage material (US DoD)
PM Précompte Mobilier (French)
PM Pressure Multiplier
PM Processable Mode
PM Purchase Memorandum
PM Paul McMartney (musician)
PM Project Missionary
PM parallel track multiunit (US DoD)
PM Peter Moosleitner's Magazin (German science magazine)
PM Pronto Mezcla (Guatemala concrete dispencer business)
PM Pulpomesial
PM Proto-Manenguba

Make your choice Mike!
I prefer the red one
Richard

and: you have PM

[PAR]

You missed one Richard, Proboscis Metering.

[apex1]

You missed one Richard, Proboscis Metering.

Nice that I can rely on you! Thanks Paul.

[motoklas]

Hello to all!
I am very happy to find this tread, where serious and qualified people discus not so important maters, on very responsible way. However, all of that is very important to me because I plan to build a small boat for cruising on rivers, canals and lakes. But, first to introduce me to this nice company: I am not a designer, I will not be one, and I shall not pretend that I am… I am just an old (58 years), big (188 cm and 115 kg, or 74” and 253 lb) guy (still am) that like camping (on land and water), wanting to connect those two passions in one.

I live in small town named Zemun, which is a part of Serbian capital Belgrade. Both of them lay on two nice and wide international rivers: the Danube and the Sava. They are mostly calm and slow running, something between 4 and 8 miles per hour (depending on the level of the waters) at the mainstream, but near the shore waters speed are almost zero. The river Sava is wide around ½ of mile near Belgrade and the Danube is wide from 2/3 to 1 mile. There are legends between old river fishermen and sailors about waves high up to 8’, but even if that is a true, they are rare and fare away down the Danube (anyway, no need to be on the open water in that circumstances). Then, we have strong and cold winter winds up to 100 mile/hour, but anyway such weather should be better spent in cafés or at home, in any case. More danger could be from sudden spring and summer thunderstorms, but a shore is always close.

There is more then 500 miles for cruising with smaller boats (a few rivers and a lot of wider canals, or lakes). Longer distances I will cover trailing my boat by car, camping in it on land or water. Entire country can be crossed in a few hours even with trailer behind. I can visit Hungary (the river Tisa), Croatia (the river Sava and Drava), or Bosnia (the river Drina)… Not a big deal, but still I shall need dependable and safe boat in any way. I am too old to learn sailing, so I will use only motor propulsion. It will be TOMOS outboard, 50cc and 3-5 hp. My priorities are:
1. Safe boat (I like adventures, but prefer watching other people on TV)
2. Small boat (no need for a big one, easy to build, maintain, use… / “small is beautiful” & “little is enough”, especially in those years)
3. Simple (quick build in my backyard, with my tools and knowledge, very soon on a water)
4. Cheap (no need for expensive materials, it will look cheap anyway, and I will need it for only 100 years)

Sorry for too long introduction, but that may help for better understanding of my wants and needs. Concrete ideas in next post…

Best regards,
Zoran
Belgrade, Serbia

[motoklas]

… It seems to me that I can’t be “short”, probably of my professional deceases (I am a lawyer, but fortunately working all my life in industrial companies, not as advocate or solicitor) and poor knowledge of English, which is not my native language…

With my girlfriend (now ex) I had plans to make one cute and efficient river motor cruiser, metal hull 9 meter long 2 meter wide (29 ft long and 6 ft 6” wide), double-ender, flat-bottom…
But, now I don’t need such a “monster” just for me (and for one female guest, sometime), so I will build one micro-shanty, as soon as possible - so, I could enjoy a few years in daily & weekend excursions, with some shorter trips for a few days.
I like all that micro-box boats 2.44 meter long and 1.22 m wide (8 ft long and 4 ft wide), or something longer as CHUGER, they are cute and I feel very cosy in them, like baby in luxurious carriage… However, I think that they are too small (real comfort we can’t expect anyway) and too dangerous on bigger river (instable on waves from ships, or catch by sudden stronger wind)…
So, now I have three designs in my mind, with approximately 5-6 square meters (52.8 - 64.5 square feet) of flat bottom, entirely built of plywood:
1. Long and narrow, double-ender (sharp ellipse): 6 meters long and 1 meter wide at bottom (20 ft long and more then 3 ft wide) - the fastest among all three of them?
2. Tug boat, shorter and wider (“fat” ellipse): just a little longer then 3 meters and a little wider of 2 meters (10 ft long and 6 ft 6” wide) - the most stable (dynamically and statically) among all three of them?
3. Canal barge, longer but narrower (square base): 4.88 meter long and 1.22 meter wide (16 ft long and 4 ft wide) - the most practical among all three of them? This one I will build in two parts: the first will be a cabin (in style similar to tear-drop campers) and the second will be open, simple box in style similar to PD-Racers; Cabin-boat will be transported on a trailer and use as a camper during land brake-offs and open boat on top of cabin-boat or on a top of a car… Open-boat can be used separately on water, during short staying; mostly, both boats will be used connected as one boat! More stable (?) and more space… That idea comes to me from exchange messages with Bruce Hector about his TIMS-project of modular long-boat!
However, after reading all the posts, it seems to me that Par’s micro-tug boat could be the most practical solution, good compromise and cute boat… Must say that I discovered this tread after finding his plan using GOOGLE searching!
Hugh… that will be enough, or too much, from me!:o
Regards,
Zoran

[motoklas]

Here are some photos of Bruce Hector's project TIMS!

[ben2go]

He has measurements on duckworks.You can do a search on duckworks for more info.
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/03/r/projects/tims/
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/03/r/projects/tims/update2/update2.htm

[motoklas]

Ben,
Thank you, you helped me to find more information and photos there, that I had before!
Even, there wasn't any other comment or answer on my dilemmas, I am satisfied in some way, because for the first time I put them systematically on a paper (screen)
Regards,
Zoran

[BWD]

Wow.
Damn the torpedos...

[GTO]

Maybe the Glen-L website has a design you would like:

https://www.boatdesigns.com/departments.asp?dept=11

https://www.boatdesigns.com/departments.asp?dept=7

Or maybe a Bolger designed Martha Jane, but build it without the masts and sails:

http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/mj.html

[motoklas]

Thank You on excellent links, same were familiar to me, some are new!
For a long period I knew for Glen’s work, even have photo-copy of his book about bout-building from plywood (classic system)… It is somewhere on attic, I didn’t use it for years, but I think that it must be the same Glen…
Nice micro-tugs really, but I am afraid that I might fell in the trap known as “catch 22”, resulting in making plans to build boat of 22 (feet), or even 22 (meters)… The same is with Bolger’s design, of which some are really “boxy”, but some are really cute and elegant…
I just don’t have enough of recourse for real boat: money, time, knowledge, and building-space…
I plan to start construction at the autumn, work during winter and use it from the spring of the next year… Also, not to forget - to use it as land-camper…
Best regards,
Zoran

[GTO]

Zoran,

I can appreciate the consideration you are putting into your "camper" boat. I'm looking at building something for the same purpose. (and have been for way to long. It is time to cut some wood.)

Regarding your boat requirements as written so far:

4-8 mph river currents,
live-aboard camper,
low cost, simple build, for next spring
handle some rough weather
trailerable by car.

(And I am adding an enclosed cabin so that you will be securely out of the weather when sleeping and cooking. But thats just me. I'm middle aged and roughing it outdoors all the time in all conditions has less appeal for me.)

Given that you want to build quickly and at low cost, you almost have to purchase plans. There are quite a few things that can come up unexpectedly that will take time to solve when building "off-the-cuff". Having plans, you will avoid having to come up with your own (and possibly wrong) solutions and let the build progress quickly. In addition, a well established design will have a lot of bugs in the design worked out, increasing the odds that once you start using the boat, you will be happy with it. (This assumes you select the correct design for your intended use.)

Now, regarding your intended use. If you are planing on sleeping, cooking, and in general spending quite a bit of time in your camper boat, it is going to have to be a somewhat larger boat, in my opinion. Say something in the 14 - 18 foot range. Unless you are a small person or a contortionist, you just have to have the size to have something approaching a comfortable living area .

Using the Bolger "square" boats as an example, they maximise living area for a given boat length. Maybe not pretty or classic boat looking but for me, being able to stretch out on a comfortable bunk instead of folding myself into one, makes up a lot for the boxy look.

And finally, I'm not sure your 3 - 5 horsepower engine is really enough when facing a river with the currents stated. I'm not able to comment intelligently on power requirements, maybe someone else can comment on that aspect.

Here are a couple more links and keep in mind, some (most?) small sail boats can be turned into slow but efficient power cruisers.

http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/
http://www.devlinboat.com/designcatalog.htm#powerboats

Hope some of that helps you.

[GTO]

With further thought,

If you really want cheap and fast, consider something like this:

http://www.instantboats.com/windsprint.htm

For comparison, it took me 3 - 4 months part time work to build. I also replaced the dagger board with a rotating external leeboard. That added another couple of months of time to finally get right. I started the build with no boat building experience and limited wood working experience. I also had to buy a lot of clamps. A lot of clamps..

You could take that design, replace the pointy stern with a small transom, say 1 - 1.5 feet in width, for mounting your outboard, and add a forward deck and small cabin. Increase the plywood to 1/2 inch or so to make it more robust, and maybe increase the height of the side panels from 15" to 20". And of course leave off the dagger board and mast.

Just a random thought.

[pistnbroke]

I put some phots of a small boat made in ply a few days ago ..here is the finished thing with a british seagull for power

[motoklas]

Dear all,
Sorry for delay in my answer, but I spent a few nice days during loooooong weekend! More from me tomorrow!
Thank you for all the opinions!
Regards,
Zoran

[motoklas]

#pistonbroke,
Thank you for the photo of really cute boat!
Small outboards from great "British Seagull" is a legend here, very rare and mostly not for sale... I sow just one in my life...
Regards,
Zoran

[motoklas]

#GTO,
Thank you very much on your comments and suggestions!
Yes, that is the best time “to cut the wood” and start building… I am afraid that next year should be too late… I will put here some comments and answers:

1. CABINE… yes, it shall have small cabin, as I mentioned, something similar to land tear-drop campers; that is the main purpose of my future vehicle; during my land voyages, I will use it as a camper on land, but rushing to go to some water, of course; it will has a bed, large enough for me and (if I am lucky) for some nice girl-friend, but not too big! Small place for “kitchen”, even I will not cook a lot, just some coffee, tea, soup… mostly cans and salads! there are a lot of good restaurants in small places on the banks of river and canals… above the “kitchen” will be large openings in a roof/top, so there will be enough of fresh air and standing height during nice weather; during bad weather, I can cook from inside, seating on a box (toilet inside); it will have no electricity, air-condition or any other complicated system – using it will be similar to camping in a tent or in really modest trailer; I think and I hope that there will be truth in saying that ladies like boats with cabins, curtains, vases with flowers, kitchens, and so on…

2. PLANS … You are right, the most simple and sure way should be to find the proper plans, buy them and build a boat strictly to them; even the better shall be to find a kit-complete and build a boat using it… but, there are two problems> the first is real – to find a proper boat, that would suit all of our needs and wishes; the second is more subjective, but not easier at all – all of us, no mater how ignorant to the meter, dream to design and build his own boat! I will try to be more objective…

3. SIZE … even micro-shanty boxes are cute, they are more an brain exercise then practical crafts! I don’t have time and recourses to do just that and please myself! Beside being uncomfortable, a boat that is only 8 feet long and 4 feet wide – shall be very dangerous and our wide rivers; So, my boat will be long in total 16 feet, if built as a module system (inspired by Bruce Hector`s TIMS), with on boat with cabin (tear-drop camper style) and one open boat similar in style to micro-jonboat, or better said to PD Racers (Bolger’s brick too); both will have dimensions circa 8 feet long, 4 feet wide! If I decide to make just a simple one-hull construction, it will have dimensions of 12-14 feet long and 4 feet wide!

4. SHAPE … Probably that the hull will be of simple scow type, better said boxy brick – simple and quick to build, with the best possible use of inside space for small boats; good static stability also; Yes, that is Bolger influence – I admire all of his boats, as the practical and cheap solutions… I will consider two other designs of a hull> at first, PAR`s cute tug, if I can find plans for it! The second type will be WINDSPRINT, which attracted my attention a long time before… Very elegant and cute hull, probably very efficient in water… maybe a little more complicated to build, and with less inside space for that dimensions? I am not sure a size and style of a cabin!

5. MATERIAL … definitely water-resistant plywood! Dimensions are the same in USA – 8 feet cross 4 feet, and that shall dictate the entire dimensions of the boat!

6. POWER … I know that little T OMOS shall not be enough in rough conditions, but mostly all of our boats use only such outboards; the most popular type here, is metal boat in style to USA jonboat, long 6 meters (around 20 feet) – simple, ugly and heavy, but practical and not too expensive! I can consider two-cylinder 250 cc TOMOS 10 (Ten HP) or two smaller in the same time, put wide apart…

So, I will be glad to exchange more ideas about my future boat and similar designs of more qualified members and experienced amateurs. To be closed in own dreams can result in bad solutions and dangerous craft!

Regards,
Zoran

[pistnbroke]

Well Zoran make sure you dont see another British Seagull ...I think they are useless ...less than 1 hp whatever the label says ...no recoil start ...no clutch or forward and rev on most models and a hot exhaust to burn yourself on ......and 20hp on a 20 ft boat is not enough..takes tooooo long to get anywhere ...

[dskira]

This modular boat is absolutly great. I like very much the simple design, and the flexibility.

[motoklas]

#PISTONBROKE
Yes, I know that! I would keep "British Seagull“ in my room, beside computer...! That is just nostalgia...

But, we are used to small simple motors, without clutch or reverse... Talking about average people like me - no rush, no hurry! The goal is to cruise by boat - not to quickly arrive somewhere! Displacement hulls, slow and stable...
Regards,
Zoran

[motoklas]

#DSKIRA….
This modular boat is absolutely great. I like very much the simple design, and the flexibility.
========================================
Thank You…
I just have a hope that I will build it, and that I will be satisfied with results!
It can be used separately as a land camper (the first module) and small boat (the second module), or joint together as camping-boat (micro-shanty)... We will see what happen on the end!
Regards,
Zoran
p.s: wonderful web-site you have! Nice ships indeed, especially the future one> battle-ship shanty…

[mgriffin]

Apex, if the new jet engine did'nt show up in that PM I sent you, here it is:

[apex1]

Apex, if the new jet engine did'nt show up in that PM I sent you, here it is:

The German V1 Cruise missile used that technology in 1943:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verpuffungsstrahltriebwerk

[daiquiri]

A pulse jet engine... You want to put it on a boat? Wowww...

V1's (Apex' link) used pulse jets with valves, which have evolved (?) into valveless pulse jets - simpler construction (can make it in your garage) but less fuel efficient. There's an excellent tutorial about them written by a slovenian guy, here:
http://www.pulse-jets.com/valveless/index.htm

If you go to the main page of the site: http://www.pulse-jets.com/
you will find few on-line calculators for a dimensioning of your own DIY pulse-jet. :)

I didn't follow this theme, so maybe you have already discussed about those links...

[apex1]

I didn't follow this theme, so maybe you have already discussed about those links...

No, that was not discussed by now. Thanks for the links.
you have PM

Richard

[mgriffin]

The German V1 Cruise missile used that technology in 1943:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verpuffungsstrahltriebwerk

No Apex, I know about the V1. I read alot of stuff about those engines, and the differance between mine and the v1's is that the v1 has reed valves and only ONE combustion chamber. Mine can have as many as 3.

[mgriffin]

The German V1 Cruise missile used that technology in 1943:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verpuffungsstrahltriebwerk

No Apex, I know about the V1. I read alot of stuff about those engines, and the differance between mine and the v1's is that the v1 has reed valves and only ONE combustion chamber. Mine can have as many as 3.
This seems to be the most efficient one:
http://aardvark.co.nz/pjet/lhpatent.shtml

[pistnbroke]

I thought this post was about actually "building" a small boat ...
the whole process is shown below...

[mgriffin]

I thought this post was about actually "building" a small boat ...
the whole process is shown below...
It is about building a small boat, and I am going to start in November of this year. CAN'T WAIT!!! MUST HAVE MY OWN BOAT.......EXPLORING THE RIVER.......AND THE SWAMPY RESEVOIR......FISHING.........SHOOTING DUCKS..........TORMENTING ALLIGATORS........WATCHING OUT FOR BULLSHARKS.........Yes, that is what I'm going to do once I build my boat. There is actually bullsharks and alligators on the river also. Oh, and alligator gars...water moccasins...some other stuff too. BTW, I'm naming my boat Quicksilver. Stop teasing me with photos of your small boat! I'm anxious as it is to build my boat!

[apex1]

It is about building a small boat, and I am going to start in November of this year. CAN'T WAIT!!! MUST HAVE MY OWN BOAT.......EXPLORING THE RIVER.......AND THE SWAMPY RESEVOIR......FISHING.........SHOOTING DUCKS..........TORMENTING ALLIGATORS........WATCHING OUT FOR BULLSHARKS.........Yes, that is what I'm going to do once I build my boat. There is actually bullsharks and alligators on the river also. Oh, and alligator gars...water moccasins...some other stuff too. BTW, I'm naming my boat Quicksilver. Stop teasing me with photos of your small boat! I'm anxious as it is to build my boat!

I love the way you express your demands and phantasies Mike! Go ahead, we are with you..............

[mgriffin]

I love the way you express your demands and phantasies Mike! Go ahead, we are with you..............
Phantasies? What phantasies? All I said was true..."I am going to start in November of this year. CAN'T WAIT!!! MUST HAVE MY OWN BOAT.......EXPLORING THE RIVER.......AND THE SWAMPY RESEVOIR......FISHING.........SHOOTING DUCKS..........TORMENTING ALLIGATORS........WATCHING OUT FOR BULLSHARKS" I am more than likely going to do that stuff.

[apex1]

Yes Mike, no doubt, but at present that are plans (I said phantasies), they HAVE to become true.

[mgriffin]

Oh, yes, sorry. Can't wait to move! I'm going to give you some rep. points since I can now, and you asked me to awhile ago. How do I give you alot? I gave other people rep. points but there reputaion amount didn't change...

[apex1]

Oh, yes, sorry. Can't wait to move! I'm going to give you some rep. points since I can now, and you asked me to awhile ago. How do I give you alot? I gave other people rep. points but there reputaion amount didn't change...

Haha, nice Mike thank you! No you could NOT give me these points (I guess you misunderstood what I told you), as long as you did not have a certain number (I do´nt know how many) posts. The amount of points you could (or can) add or reduce someones score depends on several factors which I have forgotten. But you have no direct influence. I just tried how much I could add to your score and that was 16 points.

Richard

[mgriffin]

well I gave you one rep. point, not much.

[pistnbroke]

so thats 12 weeks away ...how are you going with the planning stage ???
Are your ideas comming together and what type of construction are you using?

[apex1]

well I gave you one rep. point, not much.

My dear friend, that was the best rep. point I was ever given here!
Does it really matter one or ten? You did that because you liked to do it for long. And I know you would express to say thank you for all the assistance (and patience?). As such I see it, and as such it is worth more than 20 points from somebody just spreading some around and thinking I am not sooo nasty.

Thanks
Richard

[TeddyDiver]

It is about building a small boat, and I am going to start in November of this year. CAN'T WAIT!!! MUST HAVE MY OWN BOAT.......EXPLORING THE RIVER.......AND THE SWAMPY RESEVOIR......FISHING.........SHOOTING DUCKS..........TORMENTING ALLIGATORS........WATCHING OUT FOR BULLSHARKS.........Yes, that is what I'm going to do once I build my boat. There is actually bullsharks and alligators on the river also. Oh, and alligator gars...water moccasins...some other stuff too. BTW, I'm naming my boat Quicksilver. Stop teasing me with photos of your small boat! I'm anxious as it is to build my boat!
Have you started allready? Get back to your thread and tell if there's any progress or delays.. no matter what we'd like know :D

[ben2go]

I think he is the one that drown in a farm pond,late at night, when the boat broke up.I maybe wrong.

[apex1]

Where ???

[ben2go]

Where ???

I heard about it on my local news.It was a repcap of what was supposedly said on the national news.I never caught where the accident took place.Not sure they even said.

[apex1]

Could you please do some recherche?

Regards
Richard

[Tiny Turnip]

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/21623791/detail.html
ben2go:
if that is the incident you heard, it was Shelby, North Carolina; the victims are named and are not Michael Griffin.

[ben2go]

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/21623791/detail.html
ben2go:
if that is the incident you heard, it was Shelby, North Carolina; the victims are named and are not Michael Griffin.

That's not it.That happened about 30 minutes from my area.I have been looking through my local news website but I can't find the report there.

http://www.smileyshut.com/smileys/new/Thinking/thinking-023.GIF (http://www.smileyshut.com/Smileys/Smiley-Huts-Free-Thinking-Smileys.html)

[apex1]

Please try harder.

Regards
Richard

[ancient kayaker]

From a post dated Oct 29:-

Goodbye, for awhile anyway...
I am moving soon, and we won't have internet for awhile, so bye until then. When I get internet again, I will probably have my boat built and will be busy boating. Can't wait to build it and use it! This is the last time I will be able to use my computer for about 3-5 months.

[mgriffin]

I'm back now though.

[hoytedow]

Hi, mgriffin,
A friend of mine built a large plywood riverboat with the squarish angles similar to your march design. He enjoyed using it but it was hard to maneuver. He propelled it with a Briggs and Stratton motor moving a paddlewheel. It was very unusual and happened back in the early 1970's.:cool:

[mgriffin]

Whats up? I think I just found the boat of ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL of my dreams about boats.
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/03/r/projects/tims/update2/update2.htm
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/03/r/projects/tims/
I am going to build a 16 foot version though, using only two 8 foot by four foot sections, the back half being the pusher, front half being the cargo or passenger half.
This is the best way I can describe to you what my boat will look like:

[hoytedow]

That is not half bad! Any lakes nearby?

[mgriffin]

Sure! there is 2 huge lakes one bigger than the other by me, not to mention all of the little ponds and rivers! There is a river directly behind my house, big enough to float my boat also!

[hoytedow]

Be sure to take a class in safe boating! We don't like losing forum members most of the time. Always wear your life jacket. Not an order, just advice.

[ben2go]

Whats up? I think I just found the boat of ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL of my dreams about boats.
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/03/r/projects/tims/update2/update2.htm
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/03/r/projects/tims/
I am going to build a 16 foot version though, using only two 8 foot by four foot sections, the back half being the pusher, front half being the cargo or passenger half.
This is the best way I can describe to you what my boat will look like:

Have you seen this?

http://www.angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks/Images/ChugBuildPics/PA030008.JPG

Plans--> http://www.angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks/html/Chugdes_a.htm

Sizes and variations--> http://www.angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks/html/Chugger_Variations_a.htm

[ancient kayaker]

The smiley face on the bow transom needs finishing.

The hull is a PD Racer on steroids. The builder looks to have stretched the original 4 x 8' sailboat to 4 x 12' and added a motor. There are a lot of PDR's around the world especially in Oz. Although ugly they can do the job on small lakes, slow moving rivers and no doubt canals too. They have even been taken on quite long sea cruises, but that is a risky thing to do.

I would not recommend taking such a craft on Lake Meade or any place it could be exposed to waves much bigger than a foot high or the wake of a powerful fast-moving motor boat. There are real boat designs that are almost as easy to build, much nicer looking, will go farther and faster on a tank of gas and be safer to boot.

[ben2go]

The TIMS is basiclly built the same as the Chugger.It just looks more like a freighter than a cabin boat.Both use 2x material for frames and ply to sheet it.Both are flat bottom.Both are 4' wide and the chugger can be built to 16' like the tims.The TIMS is actually built in two section and bolted together.That kind of seems scary to me but it can be built as a single solid structure.I do see how the Chugger looks cartoonish and the TIMS looks more work boatish.I've looked at both of these designs for the small shallow lakes around my area, for fishing duty.

[ancient kayaker]

Ben2go: TIMS reminds me of the narrow boats used on the UK canal system. There are a surprising number of them surviving; I was on one many years ago in London, gave me a nice ride around the canals that still access the backs of many of the older warehouses and can't be seen easily.

I have nothing against flat-bottomed boats, having built one myself recently. I tried designed them myself but it is not as easy as it looks. I've nothing against the PDR by the way, I was tempted to make one last year actually.

Richard: I have never used the negative point feature myself, and would prefer it to be removed. It's too easy to hit the minus button in a fit of pique, perhaps to regret it later. I see it happen to my points once in a while, it's not always identified, so don't know who and don't really care. I'm much more interested in the positive points; it's nice to be appreciated and I like to know who bumps them up once in a while and my thanks to those kind people who do so. The system won't let me put a few of your's back yet.