My little piece of peace

[masalai]

Well today's imagery is of the bow - fore-beam and chainplate assembly awaiting multiple layers of quadraxial cloth tape and the stern all taking shape and looking good...

[Manie B]

Mas as always looking good, and great posts.

Do you have a picture of a cross section of that forward beam.

i would love to know how they put that together, i do assume that it is hollow? is it wood?

[masalai]

Manie, it is aluminium, a fairly heavy section and the ends to be glassed were carefully cleaned to remove all potential "grease", then sanded missing no parts else epoxy may not adhere properly, then wound with wet (epoxied) tape to specifications, allowed to cure, tidied up and fitted into place ready for more taping, and then the chainplate angles and fairing set, to have that part taped in - see post 483, 485, 490 and 501 each has a frame or two relevant to the process... You should be able to see the embedded clevis pin hole (made with 16mm ID SS tube - 2 "grooves" will be cut to take the rigging screw section, the pin is about 105mm long made from 20mm or larger stainless steel rod turned to fit with a head on one end and split pin hole at the other...

[Boston]

being an old school woodwright Im not to familiar with this tape
can you describe it to me or give me the company name so I can look it up
thanks
B

[masalai]

Just "glass" cloth woven into specific widths and with various woven patterns for different uses - joins in composite structures after being glued and filleted using epoxy and "micro-spheres" mix... explained in detail in 'the scrumble project' I think... the link is in the bob oram link of my signature area, and also check out there for the ATL site, as there must be something there too... else get back to me and I will find some better information....

[Boston]

Ill have to look up
"micro-spheres" mix as well
thanks
B

[judy]

Two links:

Glass reinforcement tapes (http://www.atlcomposites.com.au/atl_composites/products/reinforcements)

Working with glass tapes, epoxy and microsphere mixes (http://scrumbleproject.wordpress.com/2004/12/07/port-hull-fillets-wet-layup-of-glass-tapes-peel-ply/)

[srimes]

What engine is that? I'd like to read more about it. I like the simplicity of single action w/ auto parts, but that's not the complex part of the engine. What kind of valve train does that use?

http://members.pioneer.net/~carlich/RSE/RSEengines-v4compound.jpg

the ones I chose arent nearly as pretty but are dam efficient and use mostly off the rack auto parts in the internal rotating assembly

my 57 flat top would use 4 of these 125 hp single acting compound steam engines
I could get away with 2 but I hate the idea of a owning a gutless wonder
so I want it to be able to get up and run from a squall if needs be
they are reversible 0 to 1500 rpm
I should be able to do about 10 knots at 40 hp but want to hit 16~20 in a pinch
these engines are really compact 21x24x14 and light at 250lb each
course you have to count the boilers as well at 350 lbs each dry and I need four of em as well


your torquido idea is dam enticing
I was thinking I would incorporate them into the system for docking maneuvers and emergency power
that boat you showed a picture of with the flip down system was really impressive
I hate the idea of chopping holes in my hull for bow thrusters
course I hate the idea of chopping holes in the hull for anything

your build is coming along great Mas
way to go
dam inspirational

thanks for all the pictures
B

[masalai]

srimes, it is steam and if you PM Boston I am sure he will give you the data you require...

judy, Thanks for the help :D:D - I have been up to the shed taking photographs for Boston and to put on this thread...

On the way back, the big boys are playing with their boats - Maritimo (Bill Barrycotter) Stephan - who owns a chain of hairdressing salons has his big "pink" boat there and quite a few others... I took some video and if it works out OK I will post that, but mainly lots of still shots with the little work camera (so as to be within the 2meg size limit)... Racing Sunday - the last of the season... then they all go back to Europe and middle east to continue with a new series under altered rules....

[masalai]

For Boston (1) - is the join on the outside of the transom with cloth tape securing and "peel-ply" facilitating a cure and ready with a light sand after removing the peel-ply to paint by extracting the 'fat' from the surface... (2) - A join internally with fillet work (rounding) tape and peel-ply... (3) - heavy with layers of tape to strengthen the 19mm bulkhead that will partially support the mast step on the deck... (4) - partial build of the forward chainplate... (5) - surplus waste of two different mixes for epoxy & microspheres...

[masalai]

All the materials (except hardener) and more coming...

[TeddyDiver]

You don't use microfibres?

[masalai]

Going by the numbers these should be next - epoxy, hardners, tape...

[Manie B]

He he

i vote for story #1


sh1t no

maybe #4


oh what the hell just look at the pics




:D




xxx

[masalai]

TeddyDiver - - Huh? hehehe
Manie B - - we do not need all that real-estate for "effect" :D:D:D a couple of "-" separated by spaces - - - - is more effective and saves RSI on the mouse hand - not so much scrolling down :D:D:D and a happy way to distribute "minuses"...

[Manie B]

He he i have made up my mind finally, its number ONE ! and i am writing all of this in one line as well, sorry Mas just a bit of fun on a Saturday morning and then back to work. There is no justice in this world, last year i had very little work, this year i have hopelessly too much, farkit how do things work. Any way i enjoy all your pics as well as the :P ones

[TeddyDiver]

Huh? hehehe
Actually Cab-O-Sil is for that, and quite a good ingredient in pastry. However it doesn't have any structural properties after baking so no need for dental care after having a Danish :)

[masalai]

and by the "plastic" taste seems to be what McDonalds use a lot in just about everything?

I posted some images of the racing boats on " http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/open-discussion/what-have-you-done-weekend-23233-46.html " and could not upload the videos as they were 33MB:D:D:D but the noise seemed louder than at a drag meeting (and I do not mean drag queen - - but I suppose that too could apply:D:D)

[Fanie]

Mas, looking better and better all the time. I can feel your butt on the water :D

The way this thread is going I can just see it's going to become a pay site soon :rolleyes: She's got nice eyes tho. Noticed afterwards. I don't believe the stories Manie. That's written by some guy living in lala land.




Get better education while you nip one off ? :eek:

[masalai]

What Fanie, the "birthday sex" story? - - I thought it was written by a male (gay one?) as I have yet to encounter a female with that attitude? have you? (yes - then you didn't measure up?) or (no - see, must be a gay boy, as I have not seen or heard either - else I would be still there:D:P)...

[Boston]

hey thanks for the close ups
the chain plate attachment at the cross tie !
why the change in grain direction of the fill wood ?
and what kind of wood was it ?

Cab o sil
is a synthetic, amorphous, untreated fumed silicon dioxide. Because of its inert nature, it has been used in food such as kethcup as well as in shampoo and some cosmetics. When mixed into liquid resin, Cabosil functions as a resin thickener (flow control agent) and sometimes as an anti-settling, anti-caking agent. Its applications are many, including thickening paint, dyes in the screen printing industry, epoxy, polyester, urethane, water, hand soap and shampoo. It is a versatile thickening agent that has even been used to "thicken" fresh water and sea water. Eager Plastics supplies quatities of Cabosil as small as 8 ounces.

Cabosil is an extremely fine particle size silica (silicon-dioxide / SiO2) aerogel. It is pure white and free-flowing. Each volume contains about 94% dead air space, with a density of only 2.3 lb/cu ft. On the other hand, water (density 62.4 lb / cu ft) weighs about 27 times more.

Q-CEL® products offer formulators flexibility in polymer composites. The addition of hollow spheres to fiberglass reinforced plastics (FRP), epoxy, compounds, and urethane castings can provide weight reduction cost savings and improved impact resistance. Insulating features of hollow spheres also work to the chemists’ advantage in thermal shock and heat transfer areas. They are suited for many applications, including fiberglass reinforced plastics, urethane foams, putties, cultured marble and adhesives.

can you define the three types of tape you show
I got wood down
but Im completely clueless when it comes to stitch and glue glass reinforced resins

and why the two different brands of fillers

the Technirez folks do not like there stuff being copied from the technical data sheet
it seems like a typical two part epoxy with hardener options
that can handle a wide range of application temps

[masalai]

End-grain balsa as it comes in DuFLEX panels - scrap pieces were used and glued together...

There is no "stitch" except in using screws temporarily to hold parts in place when gluing and are removed before taping... I think the big roll is 750 grams/sq metre quadraxle (spelling? but is cloth with 4 different thread directions - "normal" cloth has the warp and weft whilst this has two more at 45 degrees) - the smaller roll is about a third less (400gsm?) and the little roll is "peel-ply" (polyester taffeta) we buy it by the large roll - about 50 inches wide and 40 metres long and use a hacksaw to cut sections to apply over the taping joins and roll over that, with a little metal roller, to remove any air bubbles and ensure the tape is smoothed down and 'fair'... The stuff in the bags (cab-o-sil) was "inherited" I think... it smells a bit and has an unpleasant touch... We will use most of that 200 litre (45 gallon) drum and some more in 20/25 litre drums in the build.... The DuFLEX is NOT waterproof and the sheets get a liberal coating of epoxy squeegees on in several coats inside and out just before bogging & painting (or sealing as a "void") just after removing all the peel-ply on that area... (the peel-ply protects the surfaces and keeps grease (sticky fingers) dirt and other contaminants out - and makes an excellent temporary "white board" :D:D:D:D

[Boston]

no I can see that Duflex is a foam core product
definitely not water proof without some help

I also followed the balsa core thread extensively

looks from all the pictures like a foam core with a thin wafer-board on each side

when you join pieces do you trim out the foam at the edge and add a stiffener or monolithic biscuit fitting between the outer skins across the joint

or are they just butted together they way they come off the saw

[masalai]

No, No , no - yes, Boston, DuFLEX is BALSA cored.... at least it is here... :D:D:D and to make a big block to angle-grind into a shape, several (lots) are glued together - light and very strong... In the end it will be sealed, glassed and capable of holding the whole weight of the boat at each point (chainplate) there will be 7 all up, with the 2 just aft of midships likely not being used... What may look like foam is epoxy with micro-spheres...

[judy]

I think the big roll is 750 grams/sq metre quadraxle (spelling? but is cloth with 4 different thread directions - "normal" cloth has the warp and weft whilst this has two more at 45 degrees) - the smaller roll is about a third less (400gsm?)

The larger roll looks like weft triaxial, as I cannot see any warp threads at the cut edge in the photo. (edit: what you see running in the warp direction is polyester stitching to hold it all in place.) The smaller width tape looks like double bias.

Here's a diagram showing the thread orientation of some different types of glass reinforcements:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2541/3918508862_04cbc9186a.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scrumblecatamaran/3918508862/)

[downunder]

Standard DuFLEX panels, 1200mm x 2400mm, are
available with rigid end-grain balsa, and structural linear
or cross-linked foam cores laminated with a high
performance epoxy resin reinforced with multiaxial Eglass.
The laminates are finished with peel ply to protect
them from contamination and to reduce preparation of the
surface prior to secondary bonding or laminating.

Core type and thickness, fibre orientation and ply schedule
are based on design, or engineering, specifications to
best meet weight targets, stress and impact loads, and
other design parameters.

[Boston]

that makes more sense
and the outer skin
the epoxy-resin fiberglass ?

hey Mas
I notice no response to my latest few posts on the oil page
I guess the realities of mining on native lands kinda put a damper on some folks over there
oh well
you were the only one able to speak up and not end up eating crow

cheers
B

edit
I misjudged my mates over on the oil thread
they had no crow to eat
I just get a little over zealous about native american issues

[masalai]

Thanks Judy, Next time I will look lots closer:D:D:D - Shows that I keep some distance - - - - the pain in my pancreas on both occasions I do not want to repeat.....

Boston, By the "hit rates", I have a feeling everyone is doing lots of reading and quietly learning - all the "educational" type threads on almost every topic... Pleasing for Jeff as more viewers mean the more he can get for promotional/advertising/sponsorship... I just hope America survives without to much deferred pain... (which is what the political agenda seems to be - the dead dogs should just be quietly buried and some humanely put down like the banks that were bailed out, the FED and those, associated in some way, with either... and most of the surplus US$ toxic stuff.... There is a long way to fall in USA before the toxic stuff can be cleared away permanently and "helicopter Ben" is just adding to the toxic pile as fast as he and his co-horts can...

[masalai]

Ok some news - I picked up my two holding tanks made by Atlas Tanks www.atlastanks.com.au in the small industrial area at Moffat Beach, Sunshine Coast, a bit north of Brisbane... The "standard series" of tanks are all baffled, and fitted with a vent, inlet and outlet of the size and position required by the buyer - all too easy....

My genset is progressing but slowly as Phil has to take his wife for Chemo every second day, so we are praying for her speedy recovery... Phil usually caters for remote power systems have a look at http://www.wattagan.com.au/index.html?target=p_8.html&lang=en-us and look around as there are other options that may apply...

[Boston]

so is the outer skin on that sandwich a fiberglass composite

hit rates
I must have missed that part
were do you find the number of hits on this thing

[masalai]

Where all the threads are presented like http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/open-discussion/ on the right hand column "number of views" or for this thread just go to the top of the page and click on the <Boatbuilding> in the blue choices :- Boat Design Forums > Construction > Boatbuilding.... (about 14995 at the moment)...

[Boston]

no I found it almost as soon as I bothered to do a search for the thread rather than just hit the link I have stored

yikes
there are a lot of people following that thread

[Alan M.]

The structural joining tapes are 750gsm weft triaxial. If it were quad, the warp strands would just add useless weight.

[masalai]

Thanks for the heads-up, Alan M:D:D:D are there any more who would care to correct any errors I have made :D:D:D - - I thank God the team know more and better than I:D:D

The team are starting on the decks today so maybe some more pictures in a couple of days... The forward chainplates are still a work in progress so herewith - in that (a bit of trimming)...

[Fanie]

Monetary collapse of US starting on September 30th
Dr Van de Meer predicts monetary collapse of US starting on September 30th By Dr Van de Meer & Benjamin Fulford Sep 11, 2009, 04:47
Email this article Printer friendly page
Benjamin Fulford says Dr Van de Meer predicts monetary collapse of US starting on September 30th
A private but extremely influential silent individual, Dr. Michael Van de Meer is the person predicting a financial collapse of the United States starting on September 30th. That is the end of the fiscal year and the final date for payments the Federal Reserve Board wants to act, but cannot, because it is in a catatonic state, as the leaders of every state in the world is.
There will also be indications on September the 16th, he informed me some ten months ago, “Although September 30th will be the tipping point at which the tree’s fate is determined, the branches will not hit the ground until October 7th and 27th and going on into November,” he says.
Dr. Van de Meer correctly predicted the financial panic that started in September of 2008 (also 10 months in advance) and has made many other accurate predictions.
In a separate confirmation the Chinese Government is no longer entertaining and investing in derivatives, and has declared a Nova-to, meaning they will not be paying the trillions “due” on these illegal instruments. In fact the Chinese are using stronger language saying these criminally foisted instruments are a declaration of a financial war.
Meanwhile, in a significant break in corporate media censorship, the CBS TV program 60 minutes reported that Alan Greenspan, in concert with Bill Clinton and George Bush Senior facilitated in the year 2000, during the middle of the night, the passage of a criminal, highly illegal unconstitutional Bill that created the mortgage and property bubble. The bill allowed unscrupulous individuals in the major Banks and Insurance Corporations such as I.A.G. to hedge bets at a cent to the dollar. This allowed them to create derivatives contracts whose supposed face value runs into the quintillions of dollars (In either the British or American systems that is the next number after a quadrillion!). On September 30th all these fiat numbers created out of nothing will no longer be accepted. Both China and Japan have not said they will only accept gold from America but they have none. Bernanke and Geithner are desperately calling the people who own the gold and asking for some but they have been told they will not get even one ounce.
The bundling of the worthless inflated dollars created a devaluation in the banking system and major banks went down in a domino spiral, the affects of which will be felt for many years around the world. The destruction of the world’s accounting system is so extreme that the tax base of every state and municipal government is strained, some house values have fallen 80%, farmers cannot get credit for parts, seed, fertilizers and water meaning many innocent people will pay, maybe even with their lives.
The Wall Street banksters that own the Fed are being forced to put all their derivatives garbage on the books by September 30th. If they do that, they will be exposed as totally bankrupt.
The new financial system has been embraced by the Vatican, the British Empire and the Dragon family as well as the new Japanese government so it is hard to see how the Fed will be able meet the demands. Also people are now on to them and without secrecy their entire fiat con-job ceases to function.
The new financial system will not allow any off ledger transactions nor any hedge funds or derivatives. Wall Street will not be allowed to - as Dr. Van de Meer puts it - to “do all their contrivances selling worthless air and paper and contrived named instruments that by their very names are comic to the ear. They have been gerrymandered to fool the millions who buy worthless stocks just like little old ladies in sneakers working slot machines”.
The American people who are 4% of the world’s population but consume 40% of the world’s resources have been paying for it all with illusory money. The illusion has burst and there will be a 90 degree fall in the value of money, followed by a lot of hard work as the country rebuilds itself back into greatness. Fortunately, by developing all the new technology that was suppressed by the Feds, the end result of the rebuilding will be a golden age for all. But remember, there will be no gain without pain. However, the Americans are resilient people and will pull together and be a more informed and strong nation once again. First though, they need to seek out this Wall Street crowd; tar and feather them, and run them out of the country on a rail.
http://www.benjaminfulford.typepad.com/benjaminfulford/2009/09/van-de-meer

[srimes]

:rolleyes:

[Fanie]

Mas will like it though :D

[hoytedow]

We're being done in by a pandemic of ADD(attention deficit disorder); the media won't cover it and the lawmakers who vote on these things don't even bother to read the legislation before they vote. Too many ticks ride in on the dog.

[masalai]

Fanie, I copied it to where it should be but the link is just a blank page????
hoytedow, that is OK as the dog (US$) is actually dead, and helicopter Ben keeps hitting the defibrillator.... - - soon (Dr Van de Meer predicts and Dr Fanie affirmed, as being 30th Sept... {13 days} to wait :D:D:D:D) the dog will die as it is starting to rot and smell and beyond redemption...

Back to the topic... The build is progressing with bogging and sanding internally and painting with flow-coat...

[Boston]

I thought this was the 9/11 page ?

[hoytedow]

No, we turned that page last Friday.

[Manie B]

Hi Mas so what are the future plans at this stage?
launch middle next year? Brisbane yacht club? live on the boat for a couple of months? then off to?

Must say its flippen great when you can start to see where all the furniture etc. is going to go. Also its great when you can sit "in" the boat

Scrumble is also looking good, also will have a "roof" on soon
you better also get somebody to bake some chocolate cake for your party :D

anyway
Mas - Judy and gang
stay strong :cool:

[masalai]

I think this is page 36 but my response may be on 37??? - - - 9/11? - - whatever? - - is OK by me :D:D:D:D - That is the ninth of November I presume, but what year? ...

I do not propose to inhabit "yacht clubs" or "marinas" - I hope to be out there somewhere enjoying life afloat in some quiet locale N of Brisbane - A Rally, departing from Cairns (Yorkeys Knob) to Louisiades (PNG), Departs earlish September to return mid to late October Further information: Guy Chester on 0407 391211 or email: Louisiadesrally@EcoSustainAbility.com, or visit
www.louisiadesrally.com will probably be the boats baptism cruise... see "The Coastal Passage" #36... http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/

[hoytedow]

11/9, mas. We do things upside down up over.

[Boston]

put up some picts of the deck structure as it sits
Im dying to see how it goes together

cheers
B

[Manie B]

Stunning !

The Louisiades are truly paradise found

[masalai]

All the Pacific has similar visual prospects, download GoogleEarth and have a wander....

I may get some images later but the team want to finish the interior fitout and epoxy sealing, spraying the bog and sanding & painting before that goes on... and you can guess why:D:D:P:P

Today I am off to Buderim, to a little shop, "Digitech" to get my boat's computers - run on 12vDC supply (but still need 240v for the monitors) I will be using them at home and placing on the boat when the finishing touches allow (boat is on the launch trailer)

[Boston]

are you sure you want 220
you can get 110 if you want it easily enough

[masalai]

:D:D Better system, Boston, more power per Amp:D:D:D:D..... Only 110 is used in used in US & colonies, the rest use 220~240:D:D

Well, I now have the pair of computers to go on the boat, along with an antenna that gives 10db gain for 802.11g communications... Now comes the transfer of files to the appropriate machine and the set-up - Ubuntu will be the operating system...

Here are some shots of the forward section of the deck, just sitting in place, so I can show all you eager beavers... By now it will have been removed to be epoxy coated/waterproofed, bogged, sanded and painted except for the joining strips.... I presume that the final fit (after the work in the hulls is complete) will then be followed by joining, finishing off the joins and then laying and gluing the deck in place - You will all have to wait and see if I am wrong or what, as the work continues:D:D:D

The "mysterious circles" in the shot of the toilet/shower area, are caused by extra-terrestrial beings who visit regularly, to keep an eye on my progress.... They did not expect a flash as I usually prefer natural lighting, and they were "caught" as the flash energy was too much to dissipate - so now you know...

[Boston]

yerp sure is
that way if you get drenched you also got a firm grip on that fridge :p

my theory is that electricity and water are a bad combo
so if Im going to get zapped I want it to be with 110 and not 220
220 improves the grip
110 is just a wake up call

my two cents and far be it for me to criticize a fantastic build
whatever your doing
its looking great

oh
sorry for all the dumb questions concerning grp construction but this is the my closest look at the process
Im all about wood so its interesting to watch you build

best
B

[masalai]

No worries, I am also in the "observers seat", but can view whenever I want, whereas you must depend on what I present:D:D:D fire away, but do not expect me to have the correct answer, someone is bound to supply the correct response sooner or later:D:D:D

Here is a partial shot of the 2 computers one front view and one rear on showing the 10db gain antenna connected... It is quite directional... There will be 2 more screens on the ship services and a projector on the other one for the videos etc...

Electrical circuits for 240V must have an earth leakage trip so in the unlikely event of a fault, a slight tickle is all that one should feel and the power trips off in milliseconds and I have a very effective earth from http://www.moonraker.com.au/access.htm#earth - - Copper E Plate - - Radio earth system for wooden or fibreglass vessels in sea or fresh water - 96% copper - - Surface area: 1100 sq cm (1.21 sq ft); Dimensions 240x130x20mm (9.5x5x0.75in); Impedance less than 1 ohm (measured) at 5 MHz in sea water; Integral copper studs with stainless steel washers and nuts for fitting and connection; the link has a pdf file that can be downloaded...

[Boston]

so you have three screens on the pilots desk
are they specifically tasked for weather navigation and topography

[judy]

Your IT setup looks very interesting. Do you have a spec sheet for these boxes (or a link). I have chosen to use laptops for the obvious power benefits, but would still like a separate file/media server.

Re the projector for videos - have you actually used one? I found ours useless in daylight, so have opted for an lcd flat screen instead.

And..... Ubuntu rocks! I do hope you are getting the latest free version directly from Ubuntu: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu

I have noticed that there are rogues on the net trying to SELL (ie. for money) this free operating system.

[masalai]

Hi Judy,
On this machine, I have linux Mint - It will be sold along with the twin screens (1680 x 1050) in a "Shuttle" box...

The new ones it is proposed to have an etched or "smoked" perspex panel between the davits (normally folded up to the ceiling and out of the way) and project onto that at night, else for personal viewing use one of the 3 new "Samsung 2333 screens" at 1920 x 1080 for full HDMI, if it is too bright for the projector... The new ones will have Ubuntu

- - - Send an email enquiry to Damien at sales@digitechqld.com.au - Damo seems a little stretched (busy), and has said he will put the details up on his website www.digitechqld.com.au soon for the machine I have, as it is sorted to run on 12Vdc or from the supplied transformer, (as is usually supplied for laptop charging), but monitor is something else (240Vac)... The configuration I have is AMD Phenom cpu, 4GB ram Nvidia graphics chipset, 802.11g wireless, one RJ45 x 10/100/1000 network port, 500GB HDD, DVD burner, 4 sata ports, 10 usb and a couple of PS2 for keybd & mouse... all slimline/notebook stuff to fit in the box and use minimal power...

Politely tell Damo to get off his bum and reply to your email as you want one too:D:D:D but if you want a keyboard & mouse on PS2 plugs then include that as well as the screens and or 10db gain antenna box etc....

[hoytedow]

Those circular apparitions are very interesting, especially that they are all congregated along the port side of that frame. Live long and prosper. V

[masalai]

I count 18 in image 2532 - that is the only one I used a flash - another image I took of the same area had around a hundred.... zoom in and have a look at this one I used a flash here too...

[masalai]

Boston, the computers are mainly for images and video I take, movies to watch and music - all on HDD... trip-planning and communications will also use the machines... - I do not have sufficient faith in general purpose computers yet, as they still have to dissipate far too much heat... Daily nav will use a chart-plotter-gps thingy, a separate autopilot with gyro & flux-gate compass, a separate radar, a separate "nasa-ais" receiver, a standard mag compass, hand held GPS, paper charts and dead reckoning... plus some other stuff... I like redundancy, but there is only so much that one can justify before it falls back to the very basics.... and some of that I have mentioned may be left out in the final decision...

[masalai]

Images taken today (Sunday)

[Fanie]

Well done so far Mas. Keep going.

I'm a bit worried though, I have not received my invitation for the launch and maiden voyage yet :D You're going to need someone to break out the drinks eh ;)

Manie, glad to see you're still around.

Little tri is gone. Someone wanted it and fetched it today. Sniff... sniff... I'm boatless :rolleyes:

[Spiv]

G'day Masalai,
just followed your link from the new babatteries technology thread and read the last 50~80 post (most of the afternoon...).
Well done mate, you are living the dream.
My boat has grown a little in length as it is now 17m, but it is still just a 14m cat with long hulls.
We start build in Nov in Pattaya, and I already found suppliers for good quality glass at less than half the Oz cost, the foam is also cheaper, even if not that much. My builder charges the same for his time, but the rest of the labour force is about 1/5 of Oz, so even if they don't work as fast I will be saving a fair bit.
As you'd recall from my other threads, I too hate mainsails, so I am having three furling sails too.
I am also very keen in 'diesel assisted' solar/ wind energy and I have read with interest about the Torqeedo system (as well as all the others...).

I once hired a FP Bahia (48') cat in Phuket, we wanted to spend the night in a beautiful marina a few miles up a shallow creek. As we turned towards the shore, the wind also turned and freshened to 20~25kn on the nose, while the tide was going out. We powered at full speed, but were making slooooow progress. We arrived as it was getting dark, not before touching the ground twice!
My point here is that a sailing boat doesn't need an engine, untill it does need it. And when you do if you don't have enough grunt you might get nowere.
I read that the 48V Torqeedo is equeevalent to a 9.9HP outboard, if that is true, you night have a struggle to go against a fresh breeze.
Am I mistaken somewhere?

[Fanie]

Hi Stefano,

You're 100% on the electric motor. Keep in mind Mas is only going to use it to fiddle around in the marina where there's power to run the beeeg fridges, same as Frosty :D May drift it out a bit once a year then power it back in ;)

Start a thread and put some pictures up, will you ? It's nice to follow the progress.

Mas, how much to keep a boat in a .AU marina ? I'm not sure I want a boat in SA any more. It may be cheaper and less abusive to go holiday in another country than here. Everything here is turning into a ripoff.

[Frosty]

Fannie I think your right, get the fk out of there.

We don't normally like Safis here, they are too big and drink too much beer, but I could put some posters up and have a word with immigration. It will of course make no difference what so ever.

Can you speeky EEnglish?

[Fanie]

We don't normally like Safis here, they are too big and drink too much beer, but I could put some posters up and have a word with immigration. It will of course make no difference what so ever.
Thanks Frosty, you will do all that for me ? You're much too kind sir.

Can you speeky EEnglish?
No, not really, i rely on the internet translator a lot you see :D

[Boston]

so Brian
you going to throw any wood into that build

http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r420/maxtanks/DSCN0018.jpg

the first skirt being fitted up for styles and rails
Ill trace in the raised panels once I get a perfect fit on all the pieces
while I was daydreaming about one of the girly pictures Maney put up recently
I accidentally cut off the tenon on the left side of the arch
spline time
oh well its the first one

[sabahcat]

Great pics and thread masalai, but I have to ask.

Why are the pic file sizes so large?

Most I have looked at are over 1000 kb, robs you and me of bandwidth.

150kb will still give great results and fill the screen, like above.

Just a thought

Dave

[masalai]

Bedding in my two new computers and somehow there are glitches playing and causing unknown problems (probably those alien entities I photographed) - Has it been very peaceful without my persistent presence? - don't answer that, it was a rhetorical question....

Straight off my little pocket camera (Nikon zoom nikkor ed 5.8 -17.4mm bloody nice and convenient and usually produces stuff under the 2mp limit except when there is lots of green/grass etc) - - be happy with the thumbnails and enlarge if you cannot get a good enough view then it is a 6mp shot compressed in jpeg format... Other camera is a cannon and does hdmi in 12mp... do you want that size??? :D:P

Boston, I like your gravity clamps - mine are not that sophisticated (usually dead batteries:D:D:D) - - WTF?... what do you think balsa is? best machismo wood from central America....

Spiv, Yes I am aware of the weakness - shall just have to brush up on short sharp tacking duels... or wait outside - - cruise somewhere else, until the weather abates - - - land breeze - you beauty, chance of some good inshore beam reaches in slight seas:D:D:D

Marinas over here are bloody expensive, and the "poo police" and other problems not nice so I will be parking up creeks during the storm season, using windows of opportunity to find/get to a more pleasant anchorage...

[downunder]

A good free tool for managing and resizing photos is Google Picasa which can be downloaded from google free. A poor man's Photoshop which is the professional tool commonly used by web designers . Picasa automatically resizes for emailing or by using Export function to prepare for web display. Photo from digital camera's will often be well over 2000 pixals wide, too large for computer screens. Around 800 pixals and 75 to 150 kb is a good size for web photos.

I have attached a extract fom google Picasa's help to explain how it is done with Picasa.

"Editing Overview: Resizing photos Print
When you resize a photo in Picasa, you're creating a new copy with an adjusted image resolution (pixel count) and with all photo edits applied. The original photo on your hard drive will never be altered.

You can resize your photos by exporting, emailing, or uploading your photos to Picasa Web Albums.

Resize by exporting
Exporting lets you resize your photos while controlling the JPEG compression (image quality) introduced by your applied photo edits. The result is newly resized copies of your photos, saved to any location on your hard drive. During the export process, you can adjust both the 'Image Size Options' and the 'Image Quality' settings in the 'Export to Folder' screen.

When selecting image size, choose the 'Resize to' option and adjust the size slider. The number of pixels you select with this slider determines the length or height of your photo (whichever is longer). The other dimension is determined automatically to maintain the aspect ratio of the photo.
Select the desired image quality for your photo using the 'Image Quality' drop-down menu:
Automatic: Preserves the original image quality
Normal: Balances quality and size
Maximum: Preserves fine detail for large file sizes
Minimum: Yields some quality loss for small file sizes
Custom: Enables you to select your own value
Resize by emailing
If you're sending photos by email, you may want to resize them in order to get under the attachment size limitation. To change the size of the photos you email from Picasa, please follow these steps:

In Picasa, click Tools > Options (Windows) or Picasa > Preferences (Mac).
Select the Email tab.
Use the slider to set your desired pixel size when emailing multiple photos. Use the radio buttons to set the desired pixel size for emailing single photos.
Click OK.
Resize by uploading to Picasa Web Albums
If you're sharing a large number of photos, you may not want to upload all of the photos at their original size. When you upload images from Picasa, you can choose the upload size using the 'Size to upload' drop-down menu or else you can set your preferred default size for photo uploads
"

[sabahcat]

Image resizer powertoy for XP
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/Downloads/powertoys/Xppowertoys.mspx

(Scroll down right hand side) is great as well

just right click on image and select small medium or large

Piss easy and I miss it, but doesnt work on windows 7 (Damn you windows 7)

[judy]

Please, please masalai, if you give into the requests of the bandwidth-challenged - it would be great if you continue to post links to the original sizes. Yours are the best boatbuilding photos anywhere on the web, and size really DOES matter. I am learning so much from being able to examine the detail.

[judy]

Bedding in my two new computers and somehow there are glitches playing and causing unknown problems


You probably already know about searching on the Ubuntu Forums (http://ubuntuforums.org/) for help.

Most reports I've seen about AMD Phenom running Ubuntu are very favourable, although most had problems to iron out first.

[masalai]

Judy, Your production (boat build), is near perfection - and you are way ahead of me in the process:D:D:D:D - - I am too computer dumb to even consider reducing image size, and I have had some interesting shots I would have loved to put up (with lots of greenery which puts them over the 2MB limit - do not even ask for them to be reduced:D:D:D, but I retain my cheeky attitude with a threat to post 12MB images elsewhere?

Using Linux Mint as I am too lazy/dumb to find the codecs and plugins that I want - I thought they might have stuck a finger at the yanks as mint has done - but seems the philosophy of "free" (unencumbered by patents and copyright) software is stronger in some... :D:D:D - I think I will stick to invasion by my alien entities as photographed with the flash shots as being the cause of the "problems"

The images stay as they are.... even when I am on the boat - If I can upload at sea then everyone can download :D:D:D although the thumbnails will have to be sufficient for the bandwidth challenged - How do you get on with the random picture images - I wish they were thumbnails, but that is another topic....

This is #1 and seems to be behaving for the present? - #2 is being sent to an expert for exorcism...

[judy]

Sorry to hear you've given up on Ubuntu. In case you do decide to give it another shot.....

Ubuntu do not so much stick their finger as politely suggest ways of dealing with the non-free components. They have "Medibuntu (Multimedia, Entertainment & Distractions In Ubuntu) which is a repository of packages that cannot be included into the Ubuntu distribution for legal reasons (copyright, license, patent, etc)."

Click here for instructions on using Medibuntu (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Medibuntu)

I've followed the Medibuntu instructions for the past 40 or so installations I have done, all with total success.

After that, these few more steps mean I've yet to find a video I cannot play:

I install Adobe Flash Player by visiting youtube and attempting to play a video (you are prompted to install).

I install further codecs by attempting to play a .avi file (in the default movie player in the Ubuntu distribution), and following the resultant prompts to find and install necessary codecs.

Then via the menu - Applications, Add/Remove, I make sure the "Show" section has "All available applications" selected, and then search for and install VLC media player and MPlayer Movie Player

[masalai]

Judy, Linux Mint is an offshoot of Ubuntu, which is derived from the Debian development stream so still the same repositories, just all the stuff comes with the downloaded "Mint" package.... so essentially another branch of the same stuff... Synaptic Package Manager is what I use to add clamAV so the windows crowd can feel "secure" when they receive my emails, and K3B for DVD/CD burning, and amorok for music (but I always forget to quit through the menu and just hit the "X" which leaves it playing in the background)...

[judy]

Sorry, I should have looked up Mint (have now). I mistakenly thought it was a different distro. It looks great. You have lots of good info - thanks to you I am using FreeShip under Wine, we are probably (95% sure) going to have a headsail only rig, we'll probably copy your access covers in the wet areas, and I've sent an email to Digitech. Don't think I'll move to Mint though:) ;)

[Boston]

ya Im fine with the picts as they are Mas
I can "zoom" in on what I want and get a good look at what your up to
I say leave it the way it is

B

oh hey
friend of mine has got a gold mine up in the hills
he is usually kinda funny about telling anyone where its at
but it looks like Im off to do some gold mining tomorrow

Ill let you know how it goes

[masalai]

Boston, Hope you find plenty of that "yellow stuff"...

No worries Judy, Damien at digitech is supposed to be setting up a website for cruising yachties, I have pointed him at some other goodies so he may start producing some of those too...

[Fanie]

I would also prefer the pics the size they are, so don't even think about it ! :D

Judy,

Do you have a thread or web site... ? would like to see/follow your build.

[masalai]

Fanie in my signature area click on the "Bob Oram" link, then on the lower right is a link to "The Scrumble Project" and there you are...

[Manie B]

Hey Fanie - Scrumble is also on my webpage, you better start reading, you are missing beeeeeg time :D

Mas i also like your BIG pics
i zoom in and drool for hours :cool:
learning lots - thanks pal and also big thanks to the dream team

[hoytedow]

[QUOTE=masalai;300641]Boston, Hope you find plenty of that "yellow stuff"...

Ditto...

[Boston]

eh we got snowed out
it was just coming down so hard you could barely see ten feet
that and had we not turned tail we would have likely been dug out in the spring
dam that dig was back in the mountains

[masalai]

Boston, what a weak excuse?, snowed in for the winter and digging gold for warmth and exercise, you would have come out leaner, stronger and richer as well as having built a handsome underground retreat/home with a built in revenue stream.... - - - Think positive man, think positive (and "outside the box" so to speak)...

[Boston]

I suppose I should have said "had our frozen solid corpses dug out in the spring"

we might have one more shot at it before winter really sets in up there
maybe
once the ground freezes my buddy tells me its hell to work the mine

[masalai]

Aaarrrrgh I was only having a dig.... Borrow some of Fanies and Manies "crew" to keep you warm and entertained during those cold dark nights... :D:D:D:D

[Boston]

http://yellowstonenationalpark.org/images/1922-TouristsatOldFaithfulInn.jpg

thats what the old faithful lodge in Yellowstone is for
getting snowed in with just the right girl
or car load of girls
but
middle of no where Colorado
no bar
no food
and no girls
and im hightailing it outa there at the first sign of trouble

[masalai]

Boston, You better go and check out those girls in the vintage car, and possibly the one in the background near the entry is overheating or almost on fire??? - every time I look the smoke seems to be increasing...

[Fanie]

Hi Mas,

Thanks for the PM. I'll keep in mind.

Boston, winter is the time to do glassing, it gives you lots of time to work witht the stuff so it comes out just right. We have an early summer, I have 10 mins flat to do what I want and then it's over. A bit shitty when you have a largish thing to make, especially half way through if the timer tells you Beeeeep ! Too late, start over :(

[Boston]

winter set in in about a day round here
was 80 on sunday
is 37 now
just had to waist a day moving everything inside into my incredibly to small basement
what a pain in the but
oh well
for what I do temp effects glue mostly
Ive actually never touched fiberglass other than to do dent and scratch repairs
in that regard its a lot like auto body work

so whats new on the build today Brian
pictures ?

[masalai]

Ordered $600 in International 'bogging' paint from the rep, who calls by fortnightly, as the magic team are heavily into sanding and finishing the insides, prior to doing the decks... and also purchased 4 lengths of 80mm 'stormwater' pipe and some elbows, to carry the electrical and associated systems... and then up to Buderim to sort out some technical issues on my new toys (802.11g wireless not working - probably drivers not installed?:D:rolleyes: :o :?: )

Fanie see your epoxy rep as there are different hardeners for different temperatures - we use 3 different ones I think, and the temperature range in "working hours" is about 12 to 35 deg Celsius or else visit the ATL and email off a few questions http://www.atlcomposites.com.au/atl_composites/ it is a big site and I have found them most helpful - - - Come build in Australia, my space should be available in early 2010 - rent, including power is AU$1900.00 for 6 months, paid in advance... and the owner of the property is a qualified electrician - so can legally certify the wiring etc as legally compliant... Australian ship registration has some advantages in regional acceptance... Federal registration fee is some AU$800 and is forever...

[masalai]

Hello everybody... Back from Buderim and looked in on my build on the way home so that means more pretty pictures :D:D:D white bog sprayed on, and it all looks good in the shower toilet areas port side and false floors prep work for starboard...

[masalai]

And a few more - - unused P & S cargo hold :D:D:D washing machine does fit nicely (in forward section of starboard hull), and a view forward over port hull... I am growing a bigger smile each day - by April I will outdo the "Cheshire cat":D:D:D

[masalai]

The computers twin (redundancy) :D:D:D from www.digitechqld.com.au send Damien an email outlining your needs and request a price digitechqld@gmail.com

[Fanie]

This sucks a bit, a COFFEE mug by the PC ??? or is it just sloppy photography... :rolleyes:

And muffs and a respirator by the washing machine ? Wow !

[Boston]

looks great Mas
just a thought
introduce those guys to Mr Sander and tell em to have at those curved cuts before they paint anymore
couldnt help but notice those edges were looking kinda rough to be painted even with base coat
that or your going to end up hitting the sanded areas again anyway unless you hit em now
might as well only do it once mate
cheers
B

[masalai]

Fanie, - - That... is my rum-mug...:D:D:D:D it helps me to follow a rumb line... Boston, - - Will be done, patience dear sir...

Fanie, on the topic of satphones & HF a one stop shop... see www.kyle.com.au and for enquiries email mark@kyle.com.au and he will assist you with what you need at competitive prices for the coverage acceptable to you whilst sailing - he is an amateur radio person and office is a big shed in his back yard with quite a few radios on at all times some wired somewhere phone inside Australia is 07 3888 7899 landline or mobile 0408 724 272 but please do not call for a chat as he is mostly quite busy... - - - Seems the website has changed a bit and some parts are not back up yet, so an email may be the go... He had competitive pricing and 3 different deals for boating and other adventurers heading for remote parts.

[boat fan]

FANBLOODYTASTIC MAS !!!!!!!:D:cool::cool::cool::D

[masalai]

Come-on 'boat fan' - commit and get building!!!:D what size/style suits your inclination and budget?

[boat fan]

Come-on 'boat fan' - commit and get building!!!:D what size/style suits your inclination and budget?

I will have to ....eventually:D

How`s the dust storm that came up from Sydney town ?:(

[Frosty]

Ive just seen the light,---its a--- Lion with its paw on its face!!!!

[boat fan]

Ive just seen the light,---its a--- Lion with its paw on its face!!!!

Leo....:D

[Boston]

isnt that from the Wizard of Oz

[boat fan]

isnt that from the Wizard of Oz



That it is....:D

[masalai]

Duckin fustey all afternoon - Thanks - next time point your nether regions south and warm up the Arctic ocean - - Mostly blue skys today just a touch orang tinted early this morning (could have been the last of the dust blowing off the neighbours roof:D:D:D...)

On the build, some more duflex arrived, I was advised that the 'white-out' is "Hi-build"... This, early onset stage of alszheim ar shit you know what I mean, person is still learning - - slowly:D:D:D

The team are heavily into setting stuff up and finishing stuff and all sorts of bits & pieces... (That bullshit means - "sorry no pictures today":D:D:D)

[boat fan]

The team are heavily into setting stuff up and finishing stuff and all sorts of bits & pieces... (That bullshit means - "sorry no pictures today":D:D:D)



You have been generous posting pics Mas....greatly appreciated too...

thanks Mas.....:)

[hoytedow]

Yeah, thanks. Good pics. Learning lots.

[masalai]

More work yet, still lots to do, and tomorrow is appreciation day for the team... and your "pay" dear viewers, will be some more pictures:D:D:D eventually:D:D

Today's images - Hi-Build and undercoat in toilet, laundry, shower and ironing areas are the areas where noticeable work has been done...

[masalai]

And three more - - two showing detail of the forward chainplate, and one of under the bridgedeck...

I also bought from Bunnings, 10 pair of self closing, 550mm deep, drawer sliders for the galley...

Recovered this post I made in Manies thread as it is relevant to my build.... and saves doing it again somewhere - and gives people 2 opportunities to find errors in my explanation:D:D:D
* The build used 6 "female frames" and they were also used for the other side by turning each frame 180 degrees on the same mark along the hull centreline... They are now available to the next builder at a heavy discount. (they are re-usable)... - No strong-back, just a line marked on the concrete, for the centre of the hull and at the appropriate marks, a squared off line to position the frames...
* LOTS of gyprock fastening??? type screws were used to temporarily hold the DuFLEX in place whilst the internal filleting/glueing set and then REMOVED all the screws and to be used again on other parts... (removing them also when finished)
* The 3 main bulkheads were placed at this time (or were there more? - can't remember...)
* The hulls were turned bum up and cloth epoxied in place & immediately epoxy-wet-out the thin underside ply-layer on the "flat bottom" using Gravity clamps, (lots of heavy things), added more epoxied on cloth, then the rest of the external joins were glued, epoxied, bogged, faired - - - then 50% copper dust and epoxy mix applied below the waterline marks, rolled or spatula on, - - - and undercoat for the above waterline area (a quick process that was not very "painful" with no long board slavery, just a quick 'passover' with air driven orbital sanders or the angle grinder with a soft pad and Velcro-ed sandpaper... The bow sections were bogged up using electrical conduit and filled with epoxy/micro-balloons outside, and the bow sections inside were filled with tapered DuFLEX and filleted in whilst the hulls were rolled onto their sides for easy access... The rest is covered adequately in the photographs... The hulls are a lot more accurate than many moulded production builds but the important part is both should be in line with the "keel" centreline and set square across the hulls... Minor variations are not relevant so long as they are not noticed by any "critics" - - (I have seen Monos under 30ft that are about 3 cm out along the centreline, and If they were not being measured at the time nobody would have been the wiser in appearance or cruising performance - except a sometimes curiosity as to why she points better this way than that in some conditions?)...
* All joins were filleted and shaped with a variety of spatulas then taped and epoxied, with peel-ply rollered on using the little metal rollers, bogged and sanded inside and out... The peel ply on the big areas of the DuFLEX was not removed until work was to be done on that area, this kept the surface clean and ready... Likewise all filleted joins etc., were taped and epoxied then recovered with peel-ply and rolled with those little metal rollers (occasionally burn them to clean them up and whilst hot hit with water from the hose to make them as good as new)...
* When the hulls were joined to make a "cat" lots of measurements and "nudging" was done to ensure true alignment (again centrelines were drawn on the concrete, squared off and marked at key reference points...) the internals were flexible and because of the glueing technique, do not "force" the internals into place as that will distort the outside view of the hulls and the glue is best if there is a gap where you can force it in with a spatula... To hold stuff in place use a screw to temporarily align whilst the glue (epoxy & micro-spheres) cures, then REMOVE THE SCREWS
* Later, as you remove the peel-ply, you should be pleased to note that the surface requires minimal touch-up, - - filling screw holes and the occasional careless bit needing a brush with the friendly angle grinder, THEN apply epoxy with a spatula/squeegee to seal the surface then bog/sand and undercoat with hi-build ensuring there are no "pin-holes" PERIOD........ As the paint or other undercoats will never fill these and the build will be leaky.... DuFLEX is never certified as waterproof, It is up to you to ensure ALL micro holes are filled and closed before and after final sanding and before undercoat and then final paint.... NEVER EVER put a hole through without sealing the area by removing the foam/balsa & filling the cavity with a sausage of tape soaked with epoxy completely expelling ANY and ALL air bubbles... when cured, then, make sure the hole is into the epoxied-in tape... and seal that as the screw/bolt is tightened... Better instructions are to be found in the Scrumble Project http://scrumbleproject.wordpress.com/ or ATL http://www.duflex.com.au/duflex/basic_techniques/the_tool_kit and don't forget to look at all the other resources there... It all sounds tedious but as you have seen goes together very easily and quickly, and by having built-in furniture is light, convenient and very robust...

[sabahcat]

I also bought from Bunnings, 10 pair of self closing, 550mm deep, drawer sliders for the galley...


I'd be keen to see how they look, the sliders used and the cost

Thanks

[masalai]

Bloody expensive but have an auto close & clamp system something like $38/pair - receipt is at the build site, so the team can swap for a smaller size if needed (the carton of 10 weighed 22KG! I think???) and will project 550mm when fully extended... Just go to Bunnings and you will see for yourself (made in Australia - - S.A. or Victoria) I also get plastic buckets at 98 cents each and paint brushes at $1.50 each (2 inch wide)... as well as most of my power tools from Bunnings and latex gloves, but now use http://www.cleaningandpackagingsupplies.com/ for the latex gloves and their 600cc ~ 750cc plastic buckets for small batches instead of the buckets...

27 Sept... Immediate reply from http://www.wattagan.com.au/index.html?target=p_8.html&lang=en-us on my genset, seems, barring unforeseen issues, should be delivered late this week or next week and Phil seems well pleased with the result...

Progress on my build is impressive (well you have seen the latest images:D), and part of the decks may go on soon and as soon as the genset arrives, the engine can be positioned and marked so the beds can be epoxied in place...

I am toying with the idea of alloy davits and bridging across them with some curved frame in alloy to shape the roof line and give a place to hang my cinema screen between the davits... How far apart does one place the davits? - I was toying with 2.2m apart... (the dingy is not built yet, but will be "cathedral hulled", with 3.3 hp outboard provision & lots of floatation chambers using balsa cored DuFLEX of size yet to be determined)... the one on "Schools Out" was around 80KG all up...

[masalai]

No images today as "the dream team" had a well deserved break on Monday, - Both returning with big grins but no comment - So I am guessing that they had close encounters with potential crew that would make Manie green with envy, but then what do I know... :D:D:D

On Monday Morning, I got my ancient car serviced, and no, it did not get pregnant, and I have got to save for shock absorbers @ $600 the pair.... Ford certainly know how to charge for spare parts... Rocker cover gasket was $90 and fitting $88, as extras on a full service, and the car feels sweet now... I also got some hoses and fittings for the fresh water systems on the boat.... from Bunnings (Hardware suppliers and they carry almost everything in a bloody huge warehouse...)

Reviewing my design selection criteria - being lazy I copied my post to another's question.... http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/what-yacht-owners-looking-yachl-29462.html#post302647
My quest started from an understanding of my proposed cruising ground and interests... The rim of the Coral Sea has Australia on the Western side, NZ and cold waters to the south and to the North and East, the Melanesian islands, (mostly coralline uplift with lots of volcanoes and regular earthquakes), so a need to escape cyclones, (opposite rotation to Hurricanes in the Northern Hemisphere), by hiding up shallow creeks & inside fringing reefs, a fair turn of speed to outrun such storms if caught making a cross "the ditch" - Coral Sea - passage... Most of the swell has about a 1000 km or less fetch so fairly steep... also required is an ability to ghost along in almost breeze-less days and to overnight in the many delightful small lagoons and small creeks that abound the region (deep water anchoring is out of the question as the drop-off is mostly quite steep and deep)...

I went looking for a comfortable, proven, light weight, robust, easily handled, solo capable, easily built, composite construction, and the design board of Bob Oram ably met my needs with a sailing cat 39 ft x 21 ft... Seems a "tradition" that everyone does their own thing as to the shape of the bridge-deck-coach-house - I am still toying with ideas mainly, more vertical windows on sides and forward (a little after the style of the French "Lagoon" series - or not so "severe" with, when compared to other popular cat designs, a less sloped "suns-heat-catching-capacity", as I will remain in the tropics, and all major windows will be flat, fixed, "gold" or "silver" tinted-&-tempered-glass and there will be many smaller opening systems to catch and direct the prevailing breezes to cool the insides...

The vessel will be kept out of marinas and have about 2000w of solar panels, a large bank of batteries, (48v electric motors by Torqeedo), backed up with a 6000w diesel genset, carry no gas or petrol and have 240 v AC for a "domestic galley" make our own water using an RO "watermaker" and process black and white water for benign return to the oceans... sail area is around 80 sq Metres, "using a hitch-hiker dual genoa to each bow on roller-reefing with a 9 sq M hanked-on blade/storm self tacking jib midships rig" and have a ready-to-cruise weight of less than 4800KG... I have gone for "mini-keels" to facilitate grounding and remote "bum cleaning", draw around 800mm... Genset will happily use most "biodiesel" oils...

[Manie B]

keewwwwlll

close encounters with potential crew

tell the dream team they have just earned MEGA POINTS and one day when i am around that neck of the woods, first beer on me :D

and i promise i wont play "sound of music" :D

[Manie B]

Hey Mas please post pics of the dream team

high time that we meet the fellas doin all the HARD graft

because i for one certainly salute these chaps on a job well done

Points for the DREAM TEAM

:D :D :D

[Boston]

Ill delete this shortly so as not to disrupt your build thread but I thought Ild show you guys what Ive been working on of latehttp://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r420/maxtanks/DSCN0024.jpg

[masalai]

Very nice work, Now the owner will have to fix the rest of the house to be in-keeping with such fine work (looks like a "Rolls Royce front end tacked onto one of those "Clunkers" as part of the US 'buy a new car scheme'... Make your own thread on your boat build and start with this "practice for your boat"... All praise to a craftsman who cares...

[Alan M.]

No images today as "the dream team" had a well deserved break on Monday, - Both returning with big grins but no comment - So I am guessing that they had close encounters with potential crew that would make Manie green with envy, but then what do I know... :D:D:D

Sam knows how to have a good time....say G'day to him from me.



The vessel will be kept out of marinas and have about 2000w of solar panels, a large bank of batteries, (48v electric motors by Torqeedo), backed up with a 6000w diesel genset, carry no gas or petrol .....

How will you power the dinghy? Torqeedo too?

We went out a couple of times for a motor test then a sail on "School's Out" a few days back.

I'd have to say the Torqeedo's haven't been 100% reliable so far.

The first day both worked fine for a couple of hours, but inexplicably one wouldn't give reverse thrust when berthing.

Then the next day, even though both engines were given a test run in forward and reverse before casting off lines, as soon as we cast off the port engine refused to run.

Then heading up the channel, the starboard motor just stopped. A quick hoist of sails, and we were going again.

On returning to the marina, both motors worked again, which makes it very hard for Bryan to find and fix the fault.

Another strange thing is that performance with 2 motors is hardly any different from just using one. Less than 1/2 knot. I'm thinking a bit more pitch on the props might be in order, but the available selection is very limited.

[Fanie]

Ive just seen the light,---its a--- Lion with its paw on its face!!!!
You mean you saw Boat Fan :confused:

Nice going Masalai. Very proud of you. Pretty soon you can also be one of the snobs sitting with your stiff upper lip (I love that English expression !) on your boat and look down on everyone around you :D

Since you're not there, we don't have to call you things like 'sir' or 'your highness' yet and can give you a bit of grief.


I still wonder about those muffs by the washing machine :D Since you'll be on the water, just soak over the side at nights, rinse in the morning and hang up on the rigging to dry. The authorities or no one else can complain even if your underpants (or do you have panties ??) are drying out there, because they will be clean :D You can give one to someone and say - here, smell, see for yourself if they are clean :D

[masalai]

Well they are max draw at 4000 watts each and I hope he is NOT using the Re-Power controller???... or is he dragging the centreboard in the mud?...

[Alan M.]

He is using the Torqeedo controllers. From memory, speeds were around 5.8 knots on one motor, and 6.1 knots on two.

[masalai]

That seems about right, and within expectations, has he had a chat with Claude? there might be some kit that can monitor the system and fault-find... advertised output is 97kg static thrust (page 22 of Torqeedo_Cat_2009_metric_measures.pdf from the "Torqeedo Catalogue 2009" link http://www.torqeedoaustralia.com/Torqeedo_Australia/Reading.html

From an email sent by Claude http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJv-lGPXxHc - - Going like "School's Out" hehehe - - I think the skipper said 7.6 knots - so that is bloody good for the engines....

[catsketcher]

Masalai

Congrats on turning dreams and talk into boat - its a rare thing.

I watched the video on Schools out and have a few concerns

The props on the motors look awfully small for a large 45 cat. Also the boat goes very slowly for no wind and a new clean light boat.

I know you are well advanced in your project and somewhat committed but having a few novel ideas in my 38ft cat build 10 years ago I think I understand your approach. In my build I had a pop top dodger, pivoting davits, retractable engine pod, tiller steering, no typical cabin, no normal cockpit and a wishbone, plus Setamar winches. I also have spent the last 6 years fiddling with my folding cat concept and 2 prototypes.

MOST of the novel ideas on Kankama were a failure - the davits, pop top, no cabin, no cockpit, tiller steering but especially the Setamars - they lasted about 2 weeks before they got the boot. BUT I LOVE LOVE LOVE my wishbone and rig and I like the Seawind type visibility Kankama has.

So I am not trying to rain on your parade

BUT those motors look way underdone. The great thing about an outboard type leg is that you can put a big prop on it. Those little things will wizz fine in flat water and no wind but my guess is that they will dig a nice hole in wind and chop and be next to useless. Also the cat makes a heap of noise which seems silly with an electric drive. The owner even talks of the buzzing bees. That is worse than a good outboard or diesel. If I videoed Kankama at 6 knots in a calm you would be hard pressed to hear the outboard.

My advice, and it may be too late, is to back off the theory and go and try and push Schools out into 20 knots and chop. One day you will be trying to get your nice new boat out of a choppy Airlie Beach northerly, after staying too long being sociable, and need the low down grunt to push into 20 knots at 6 knots minimum. Less than that and you will lose steerage way. Cats are not monos and need to go fast to stay safe into the wind. As I see it Schools out can barely do 6 knots in a calm which is unacceptable in my eyes. With such small props I can't see her making her way into any reasonable breeze in a choppy anchorage - that is dangerous.

I am a sailor. I don't motor into trades - I sail almost everywhere like you will do in a nice Oram BUT I needed to be able to motor into nasty stuff many times during our three years on the coast. We had one time at Pancake where the biggest thunderstorm of my life had us barely able to get our dragging anchor back on deck and reset. Friends stopped looking when the anenometer hit 55 knots. Queensland has heaps of thunderstorms like this in November to March.

I know you don't like petrol for your own reasons. I wouldn't have diesel for the smell and love the lightness and total economy of outboards and know that they would fit your boat fine. My appeal is for you to really absolutely triple super check these things before you part with your hard earned cash and time. Kankama went through $10 000 in two months as I sorted her out on her first cruise north. If your motors do not perform as they should then you could be up for a vastly more substantial bill and time problem when reality cuts through the sales hype. The Setamar guy was very quiet when I gave him feedback on his winches and he didn't offer to replace them - I had to pay for new Andersens.

You are treading a new path and although it is interesting I predict that some of your ideas will be deficient. I would urge you to only incorporate those ideas that have been proven by legends (like John Hitch) or are cheap to rectify (like swinging davits). The motors really worry me.

I built a boat next to a mate who was building his own Wilderness 13.2. We looked into electrics for our own boats so I think I get your ideas. But the weight and cost of cables, the legs, controllers and gen set was the same or more weight and cost than the normal set up. There did not seem to be any reason to go this way. His beautiful boat has Yanmar outboards and he likes them - I stayed with the single outboard on Kankama. Both of us are happy.

No offence meant by this - I doff my hat to you but as an inveterate tinker I urge caution to those who spend money treading such a new path. I have been hit on the head many times by reality and the pain is mournful.

cheers

Phil Thompson

[catsketcher]

Just rewatched the vid and heard 7.6 knots. So in flat water that seems okay. I would still like to see the engines be able to push the boat so that it starts to make some waves - that takes grunt. I still stand by my point on prop size and wind and chop - that is crucial - not calm motoring.

[masalai]

I think we met some time ago, and I am not finally committed in that the set-up is configured to accept other outboards, up to a pair of 40hp Yamaha 4 stroke outboards - I am not completely 'starkers' yet:D:D:D and appreciate your concern and interest... "School's Out" is a 44C stretched and heavier finish? - I am lighter and smaller 39C with mini-keels that add to buoyancy (and a bit of weight / drag) and expect 6+knots calm seas no wind on 1500 watts each, and around displacement speed with the full burst of twin 4000 watt motors giving 97kg static thrust equivalent...

Launch is around April 2010 and final decisions will be deferred 'till near then - committed to the genset, which means the batteries (but not so many) as well as inverter for domestic/galley - - the electric outboards will require the installation of 2000w solar-panels and at least 220 Ah of 48v batteries...

The other determinant is the price of gold, and how much the USA fucks around with upsetting the global economy... The US$ against the AU$ is more than 30% weaker since March 2009 and the price of gold has fallen in AU$ terms some 18% or so in the same time-span... all attributable to gross manipulation by the N.Y. consortium (FED and allies)... - - less money cheaper option...

[Fanie]

Phew Mas, the whole forum was holding their breath :D A pair of 40's would be good.

[masalai]

What for? It is a sail boat and I will catch enough fish just trailing a lure whilst sailing... to eat - no sport involved... except in horizontal games/exercise...

[Frosty]

April 10th,--Mmm thats 3 weeks to get here, sooo ,hmm I will be in the Champion bar then. What about you Fannie are you going to leave Saffa before you die.

[Manie B]

Torqeedos are rather nice if you can afford the whole setup that goes with it, watched the Schools Out video, looks good.

Nothing wrong with 2x torqeedos and 1x 20 hp fourstroke as backup ????

[Fanie]

Nothing wrong with 2x torqeedos and 1x 20 hp fourstroke as backup ????
No there isn't. The problem is when the wind is up and you cannot use the sails for some reason then the motor's (and batteries) is supposed to get you there.

The force of the wind on a surface at 20kts ~ 7.32kg/m2. Now calculate the area above the waterline and see what the force is the motor must be able to overcome to turn the boat.

I saw a video in a harbour of the wind pushing some boats out of control and into a wall, those with sails couldn't use them and most were unable to turn the boats into the wind. Not a pleasant experience I bet. There was a dinghy that looked like it was air borne the way it went and the skipper had no control over where he was going, sail or no sail.

Personally on Mas's size boat 2 x 40's at the least, but that's just me. You can put a LOT of fuel in for the price of the batteries alone never mind the drives. If it's something you 'wanna have' then fine, nice for quiet cruising but I won't kick the petrol motors just yet. They can run 24/7 if required with a lot more torque.

Also from experience I can tell you the electric trolling motors we use are nice and they can take you places, as long as it's not in bad weather. We can troll all day long with them. If the wind is up however and you try your luck going up wind you quickly resort to the iron sails.

[Fanie]

I will catch enough fish just trailing a lure whilst sailing... to eat - no sport involved...
No sport involved ? You are going to net your fish ! Now that is unsporty :D

[Manie B]

April 10th,--Mmm thats 3 weeks to get here, sooo ,hmm I will be in the Champion bar then

well well - cant miss a good party hey :D

so i consulted my crystal ball and other geeky stuff

6800 nm @ 120 nm / day = 57 days @ 3 litres of drinking water / day = 171 litres

Great scott old chap the micro carries 200 l as ballast = could be done i'll say i'll say

wonder what the ball and chain would have to say :rolleyes:

downhill there - container back
jeeeha time to vist Mas and WW :D

damn wouldnt it be fun - sorry what did you say about alzheimers - sh1t i forgot

sorry cant load ocean currents 2.8 mb png max = 2mb
anyway also "downhill"

[masalai]

Ahummmmm Manie, are you dyslectic too? the route (on the globe image) you did is OK for Durban to Brisbane via the cold weather... if you go a bit north in Summer, then it is a broad reach with the SE trades (according to your "winds globe", to arrive off NW cape in Western Australia just as the NE trades kick in for the southern winter and across the "top end" thence down the inside of the Great Barrier Reef - (Best to clear customs/immigration Geraldton / Dampier region) and be in Brisbane in time for my launch.... - Better get a move on... The Captain Jean Louis Bernicot chart shows a better route for the Durban/Dampier run... stops at Madagascar to see if the animals from the NY Central Park zoo are OK (the movie animation), thence to Mauritius, Cocos (in case the Australian Govt wants to "Guantanimo" you as illegal immigrants, thence to Dampier for the final leg following the coast...

Fanie, if the worst comes to pass, 15hp 4 stroke hi-thrust pair would be adequate, but if Manie comes for the launch then I may have to get bigger engines to tow Manies' boat as the "tender"... :D:D when we head up to the Louisades (October-November to miss the "Cyclone season" in Queensland), across to Solomon Islands to find a bit of gold (Why the islands were named as such...), sit out the summer season there, thence up to invade "Frosty land"... Of course all this is subject to change without notice as "following ones nose & mood" is an indefinable path....

[Fanie]

Mmmm... the sissy route through the islands to Madagascar eh :D

I bet it is going to be very nice there. Better watch the Moz channel, though very nice and warm water you can run into troubles there. You can get some info on it here -
http://www.cruiserlog.com/wiki/index.php?title=East_Africa
from here
http://www.cruiserlog.com/wiki/index.php?title=Cruising_and_Sailing_Wiki_by_CruiserLog

And if you get bored, this will keep you buzy for a bit too ;)
http://www.cruiser.co.za/links1.asp

[Fanie]

He he, I know someone who moved to Tanzania, doesn't want to come back to SA either. Always had the idea to sail up there to Dar Es Salam, say hello with a cold beer and head back (catching fish as you go :D)

[masalai]

I have no interest in sailing backwards (into a headwind and opposite to the current flow), to get to SA, from which you folk are desperately trying to escape.... So I repeat, build your boats and get a move on... Adventure awaits... Your escape route is planned and not to much of a challenge... :D:D:D

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/10/01/2701493.htm?section=justin "More asylum seekers arrive off WA coast" - Nup, does not look like a 'saffa boat'?:D:D:D "guantanimo" - err Christmas Island -10.4917 deg S latitude 105.6496 deg E longitude is Australian territory... and a tropical Island resort for illegal (boat-people) immigrants... :D:D:D

[Alan M.]

I think we met some time ago, and I am not finally committed in that the set-up is configured to accept other outboards, up to a pair of 40hp Yamaha 4 stroke outboards - I am not completely 'starkers' yet:D:D:D and appreciate your concern and interest... "School's Out" is a 44C stretched and heavier finish? - I am lighter and smaller 39C with mini-keels that add to buoyancy (and a bit of weight / drag) and expect 6+knots calm seas no wind on 1500 watts each, and around displacement speed with the full burst of twin 4000 watt motors giving 97kg static thrust equivalent...

...


I can't see you getting 6 knots plus from the Torqeedo's at 1500 Watts each. IIRC School's Out was good for about 4 knots at that.

And by the time you have the genset, the 48 volt battery system, as well as a 12 volt battery system, plus the solar panels, and all the 35mm cabling, your boat isn't going to be a light 39C.

The noise of them wasn't so bad as it may have seemed in the video, - they were certainly quieter than outboard powered cats I've been on.

When Bryan called out "7.6 knots" IIRC we were getting a bit of help from both wind and tide. Also the dinghy was off the boat, (doing the filming) which would possibly have made more difference than you'd expect - it's a fair bit heavier than me, and I'm 115 kg.

I've powered my 44C with a pair of Honda 20 "Powerthrust" motors, as used on "Out Of The Bag" . That boat seemed to perform pretty well, I think best speed under both motors was 11 knots, one motor was 9.

Like everything, the Honda's have their pro's and cons, the props aren't as big as Yamaha 25 HT's, and the gear ratios aren't as good, but then the Hondas are 30% lighter, have a longer leg and a bigger alternator. Plus I got one near-new (20 hours) at half price.

If I was starting from scratch, I think I'd look into fitting a Yamaha 60 HT on one hull, and a Yam 9.9HT on the other. Put the batteries in the 9.9's hull to balance things out.

IMO the Yam 25 HT's are way too heavy at 92 kg each, (Honda 20s are 65kg) the 9.9's are 53kg, 40's are Ok at 100kg, (BUT AFAIK there isn't a high thrust version of the 40) and the 60HT is 116kg. .

So A 60HT plus a 9.9HT would weigh 170kg, less than either a pair of 25's or 40's and I think a 60HT would really get things moving. It's injected so possibly more economical (at the same speeds) compared to the 25.

The downside is the 60 is physically bloody big.

[catsketcher]

I concur about motors - the Yammie 25 is a friendly brute. Our old Honda 25 was a lovely bit of kit up top. Nice three cylinder job, triple carby - at idle it was very quiet. Only had one or two revs that it would shake a bit.

Then some scumbag stole it and my retractable nacelle and I couldn't replace it. So I got a Yammie 25. It is heavier and throatier - balls and muscle whereas the Honda was a smooth operator. The Yammie is much shorter because the mount is so long. Measure from the mount bottom to the bottom of the leg - a better way to measure for cat sailors.

The big diff was in the prop. The Honda had a 9 inch prop. Pi r squared is 4.5 x 4.5 x 3.14 = 63 square inches. The Yammie has a 12 inch prop = 113 square inches.

When we used to get hit by a gust with the Honda Kankama would slow appreciably. With the Yammie she has almost twice the grip on the water. This is one reason why I am dubious about calm speed runs.

The Yammie has another benefit - it can reverse. When we first put it on my wife and I had trouble anchoring. We looked at each other - What the heck? We had anchored up and down the coast on this very boat with the same chain and anchor and technique. In the end Deb said - "Maybe it is the motor"
She was right.

We were giving the motor the same amount of throttle as the Honda and the anchor was being flung across the bottom. We had to back off quite a bit.

If I could I would get the guys at Honda to steal the leg from the Yammie - or visa versa. I like the idea of the 60 and 9.9 too.

cheers

Phil

[masalai]

Oh seems Claude may be disappointed - time will tell... that is for after Xmas decisions... The Torqeedo 4.0 R screw is 12" x 10" optimised for forward thrust of 214 lbs (I calculate that at about 97kg?) with this statement "Torqeedo static thrust measurement is based on globally valid ISO standards. Static thrust figures for conventional trolling motors are measured digressively, which results in higher values. In order to compare Torqeedo static thrusts data with conventional trolling motors, add approximately 50% to the Torqeedo static thrust values."...
The first couple of images are of the centre walkway and whatever out to the forward beam... next shows the chamfer panel between hull and bridgedeck, above the waterline and adds significant internal space and reserve buoyancy... and some panels epoxied together to become the aft chainplates - - I guess/think? The last being a general view forward...

[Manie B]

The discussion on outboards is very good and gives plenty food for thought.

Are the dream team camera shy?

My crystal ball still recons 40'south rhumb line :D

http://www.cruiserlog.com/wiki/index.php?title=Passage_6

[masalai]

That is in the ROARING 40'S - - Fuckin cold and 40knots PLUS and absolutely HUGE seas..... I would rather the warmer climes whilst there is a good window of SE trades for a broad reach in relatively modest winds and heading for warmer climes... Scheduled to arrive here (Brisbane in early/mid April, just after "cyclone season" and be happily moored in the Caboolture River, attend the launch festivities, then work our way up north before the summer cyclones to Cairns around November thence to the Louisades...

[Fanie]

Mas, I used to be a Yamaha fan, but not any more. The CDI on my motor packed up. I stripped the CDI by taking the rubber sealant filler out. There are lots of dry joints on the PCB ! The components were stuck in the board and some was never soldered. Since it worked, the not soldered contacts deteriorated and the CDI malfunctioned. VERY POOR WORKMANSHIP. A new CDI is going to cost what I can pay for the same motor with a CDI in it :(

So, if I was you I'd look at the other options instead, those motors that Wynabd is selling is a far better option imo. I have also heard some good things from other owners and at a better price.


Your escape route is planned and not to much of a challenge...
I wasn't planning it the short way there :D

You sail to the US first... tell them SURPRISE ! I'm here you bunch of ugly Ausies !
They will say this is not Australia...
Oh ?
Yeah this is the US...
Then which way is Australia ?
That way ! (pointing)
But that's the direction I was going, how come I ended up in the US ?
Where are you from ?
Safrica
Well then you should have headed that way (Pointing again the other direction)
But you just said it's that way (point the first firection)
If you were going from Safrica you should have headed that way in the first place.
Ok, must I go back that way via Safrica or is it shorter the way you pointed ?
Can I have some water please. I have been dringing sea water for the last four days :D
(Take the whiskey and glasses out)

[boat fan]

That is in the ROARING 40'S - - Fuckin cold and 40knots PLUS and absolutely HUGE seas..... I would rather the warmer climes whilst there is a good window of SE trades for a broad reach in relatively modest winds and heading for warmer climes... Scheduled to arrive here (Brisbane in early/mid April, just after "cyclone season" and be happily moored in the Caboolture River, attend the launch festivities, then work our way up north before the summer cyclones to Cairns around November thence to the Louisades...


Sounds a little more realistic Mas.


Are those chainplates just laminated Duflex ? Is the gap between the laminations where you slip them onto the hull skin ? They look really thick and very rigid.
I like the way you can now " weld " components together ( like the catwalk to the forward beam ) with modern composite laminations .Everything will look so smooth and faired together.Will look classy Mas !!!!:D

[masalai]

We are running guided tours for the discounted price of 1 oz of gold per person, including a 3 course meal (grilled barramundi, potato or wood chips, maybe some lettuce and other vegetables/salad & tomato sauce - washed down with a stubby of genuine Bundaberg ginger beer - non alcoholic...) - for those that like harder stuff, some time in a local jail is an additional cost optional item...

Chainplates? what? who? were? - - Oh those, well you will have to wait and see:D:D:D (I don't know yet either....)

[boat fan]

We are running guided tours for the discounted price of 1 oz of gold per person, including a 3 course meal (grilled barramundi, potato or wood chips, maybe some lettuce and other vegetables/salad & tomato sauce - washed down with a stubby of genuine Bundaberg ginger beer - non alcoholic...) - for those that like harder stuff, some time in a local jail is an additional cost optional item...

Chainplates? what? who? were? - - Oh those, well you will have to wait and see:D:D:D (I don't know yet either....)


Chainplates .? we don`t neeeed no stinkin chainplates .....:D....


Mas` Boatshed Tours . Org................... a charitable .org :D :D :D

[masalai]

Further good news, the genset will be on its way from near Cessnock, NSW to the boat build site, 40km north of Brisbane, on Tuesday 6 Oct to arrive a day or so later... A compact 722cc Kubota engine with dual Delco alternators to charge a 48V bank of batteries for less than Au$10,000.00 including regulator and separate 48 to 12 volt charger for nav stuff, leaving the 12 engine start alone... Suppliers were http://seawasp.com.au/products/nanni.html and http://www.wattagan.com.au/index.html?target=p_8.html&lang=en-us - both did a special version to specifically meet my needs...

[Manie B]

Hey hey its friday afternoon this side of the globe and i just heard the town crier go by ringing his bell "Al's well - al's well" close up shop 15h00 and go build a boat :D

Must say the camera shy dream team did a sterling job this week and some more points to them :D

just a little something to cheer you up in view of the gold prices and that and that :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8arvEzHsA8

and here is a stern warning for those folks that overload their cats and dony follow designers instructions :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo2DQBlVcJ0&feature=fvw

old schoolrock - cooool hey

[Boston]

great stuff there Many

[masalai]

Spot the changes:D:D:D Fanie, How can I distribute the points to the team if you do not give them to me? - - I am stupid and will accept rep-points, the boys prefer the beer for the illiterate - "XXXX" - well, - - after drinking enough of it, - everyone is guaranteed to be that way - 'blind drunk and illiterate' :D:D:D but can always read and request more "XXXX" beer....
The one that just seems to be a pile of stuff next to a 200L drum is my 2 x 117litre grey/black water holding tanks from Atlas Tanks based down near the "famous Moffats Beach surfing spot"... The first 2 and the last one show the beginnings of the work on the galley (P & S) as well as enclosing the berths...

[masalai]

This is a stubby, that held some ginger beer (non alcoholic as the sun is not over the yard arm) - the day is 'duckin fusty', with another dust storm heading this way so I can see neither... The other one is for Manie... jealous? normal staff is 5 or 6 men... and heaps of building site and major "handiman" stuff...

[Manie B]

Nice Mas

[Fanie]

GINGER BEER ! Youre getting sea sick already :D

Jeff won't let us give you more points...

What changes, it's still the same boat :confused: :P

[masalai]

I ran out of the XXXX stuff and needed something to induce a belch... - I need more points or gold to get more beer... HeeeEEeeLllllppPPpppp :D:D:D:D

[Fanie]

For a second there I thought that Master Hire place was in SA with the fencing and warning signs :D We had four burglaries in our street since Wednesday last week, there is about 47 houses in it.

So Mas if you do consider visiting SA you would have to fit the barbed wire all round, electrified of course, heavily spiked palisades, have some burglar proofing on the ports, have an alarm system, get the vicious dogs and hire a security co. A bullet proof vest is also a good idea if you BBQ on the deck since it is one of the latest fashions here to rob people while they braai outside.

I ran out of the XXXX stuff
Liar liar pants on fire ! You're too scared of the big boss there to drink real beer :D

[boat fan]

I ran out of the XXXX stuff



Get VB next time Mas.....:D

[Fanie]

That is just big talk from Mas Boat Fan, the little lady will kill him and who gets to play with the boat then. There are times one has to be more carefull than others :D

[masalai]

Dear Boat Fan, - - - WHAAAAAAT - - and support your pseudo Mexican rubbish brew? - That stuff is reputed to turn ladies into lesbians? - - For strangers to the Australian idiot-syncraties (sic/k), "Mexicans" are the poor fools who live "south of the border (down Mexico way)" and must regularly endure 4 to 6 seasons during the passing of one day (their wardrobe style is called "layered" as it must be removed/added as the weather changes minute by minute), they play "aerial ping-pong", - (but it is far better to watch than the American "gridiron" pansies with padding and tights and regular 5 minute breaks to catch their breath and re-powder their faces), on a cricket ground, whereas Queenslanders' are, amongst other things which cannot be discussed in "polite society", the banana-benders - as the bananas grow straight, and must be bent so as to be acceptable to the nonsensical criteria for food of the southerners ("Mexicans") and with apologies to all true Mexicans - it is not to be taken as a slur on their heritage, just that someone wrote a line in a song that seemed appropriate at the time....:D:D:D:D

[boat fan]

Dear Boat Fan, - - - WHAAAAAAT - - and support your pseudo Mexican rubbish brew? - That stuff is reputed to turn ladies into lesbians? - - For strangers to the Australian idiot-syncraties (sic/k), "Mexicans" are the poor fools who live "south of the border (down Mexico way)" and must regularly endure 4 to 6 seasons during the passing of one day (their wardrobe style is called "layered" as it must be removed/added as the weather changes minute by minute), they play "aerial ping-pong", - (but it is far better to watch than the American "gridiron" pansies with padding and tights and regular 5 minute breaks to catch their breath and re-powder their faces), on a cricket ground, whereas Queenslanders' are, amongst other things which cannot be discussed in "polite society", the banana-benders - as the bananas grow straight, and must be bent so as to be acceptable to the nonsensical criteria for food of the southerners ("Mexicans") and with apologies to all true Mexicans - it is not to be taken as a slur on their heritage, just that someone wrote a line in a song that seemed appropriate at the time....:D:D:D:D



But ....but......Mas....I`m only on a temp. Mexican Visa Mas.......( Croweater temp visa )

Will be back bending bananas sooooon:D

[boat fan]

That is just big talk from Mas Boat Fan, the little lady will kill him and who gets to play with the boat then. There are times one has to be more carefull than others :D

Me thinks Mas loves his little lady Fanie.....

If you for one minute think that his " Dream Team " would not consume copious amounts of the above mentioned fluid , you don`t know any Aussie boat builders .:D

[masalai]

hehehe, beer-O-clock is the biggest budget item...:D:D:D and MOST IMPORTANT...

OK you are forgiven... Even though he was Gay? The best Premier ever, held office in SA... and were not the "democrats" spawned from there? - and the only planned city in Australia, and the stump jump plough, and some bloody good wine, and the modern refrigerator, You need to move SA up further north - kick the NT to one side, easy done coupla nukes in the right spot & bob's yer uncle...

[boat fan]

I worked for Donald straight out of uni Mas.....Adelaide State Adminstration Centre in Victoria Square.

Draftsman ...Engineering and Water Supply ...now called SA water.

Donald Dunstan WAS the best we ever had your`e right !


PS Tell Sean where to put his money when he comes over.......A Canadian who gets our humour .......AND boatbuilder .....We want him ...:D

[masalai]

I doubt he will move, He is into steel and would best talk to Wynand in Saffa land with 'Philemon'... Don't know where Wynand will build next? - - somewhere else soon???

[Manie B]

By the way Mas how are you going to connect to internet, fax, etc.

I came across this, but jeeez it's expensive (super duper smart)

http://www.sail-world.com/Cruising/Marine-Broadband-and-airtime,-getting-cheaper/61868

definately not for us at our exchamge rate :mad:

[Fanie]

By the way Mas how are you going to connect to internet, fax, etc.

I decided Manie, I'm going to use the old method they used many years ago, the runner. Think it will catch on ?

Mas, I see there's a partition in the bow under the front cross bar in each hull. Does anything gets stored in there ?

[masalai]

Far cheaper units than that, but last I looked the access was US$1000/month but data up and down was HUGE and speed was blindingly fast, (enough for about 10 heavy users), pointed at an equatorial geostationary sat, and so long as you were not moving, (the tracking system is the expensive bit), the rest is fairly cheap and "off-the-shelf" - - - I have another option that I am working out, an experimental system...

Hi Fanie, Bugger you almost revealed my experimental access system:D:D:D The space is one of the many "voids" (nothing inside and sealed) flotation chamber... I think what you are looking at is bulkhead #1, and is used to tie down the front cross-beam as well as hold it in place... There are several "void" floatation cavities aft of that up to the laundry (starboard) and toilet (port)... then more in a "false floor" below both toilet and laundry as well as the next area and at the foot of the steps up to the bridgedeck...

[boat fan]

the access was US$1000/month


Wow Mas....you would really have to like your emails for that kind of money.

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=14&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwireless.wikia.com%2Fwiki%2FWi-Fi_on_a_Boat&ei=kS3JSsvgAo3gsQPL8LyiBQ&usg=AFQjCNEcMqHoH-p1kDEWamjx9deHSUU1oQ&sig2=1lk2B27c7LF4Te2wvxiwoQ

[masalai]

A system I saw in Melanesia, some geo's doing some exploratory work... The hardware was easily gettable, satellite access & bandwidth was where the money went... (the geologists were uploading huge database files on their analysis and watching dozens of porn movies whilst that was being sent (16GB file up and double that in movies down):D:D:D

There are other options...

[boat fan]

Geez..........that is band width isn`t it :D

[masalai]

Picture time, - My how quickly time passes:D:D:D
Old faithful, the drill that is a good mixer - - A seat next to where the fridge will be - - And the other seat from a different angle - - This is a further shaping of the chainplate - - and if you look carefully, where the tapes will go...

[boat fan]

Those chainplates Mas ...how may layers of tape will they get to distribute the rigging loads ?

Will there be any carbon there ?

[masalai]

No carbon but usual seems to be 6 or more layers of uni-tape not as you have drawn but over the previous on the formed piece - full width... and on the other side goes longer...

This is how it will look when finished and fitted...

[Fanie]

So Mas, think one of your 'crew' could take a picture of you with the boat ? :D

[masalai]

No... I do not want to break the camera and my ugly image would surely do that...

[Fanie]

It could enhance the looks of the boat for sure... :D

[boat fan]

No carbon but usual seems to be 6 or more layers of uni-tape not as you have drawn but over the previous on the formed piece - full width... and on the other side goes longer...

This is how it will look when finished and fitted...


So whats with the pencil lines then :?::?::?:

[masalai]

That is roughly where the tape will be laid - - wait and you will see:D:D:D - - Wednesday... It is being done this afternoon...

Have a read whilst I do some chores http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/open-discussion/global-economic-situation-liveaboard-cruising-yachties-26558-92.html

[boat fan]

Are they bonding straight to the alloy extrusion ? ( That IS an Alloy section is it not ? )

Acid Etch ??? ? Interesting ....will wait and see .

Thanks Mas....great build.

[masalai]

.....No acid........ 120 grit by hand sanding, after a workout using orbital sander ... binding to the "carr groove" which is the "hand sanding part"...

[Frosty]

No... I do not want to break the camera and my ugly image would surely do that...


Aaaawwwww go on !!!! Your going to have to when it finished!!

[masalai]

You first... :D:D:D:D

[Frosty]

You want an ugly competition?

My wife calls me "pumpui uha lan min keio"

Rough translation = bald headed fat bastard with smelly arm pits.

She loves me realy!! I think.

[masalai]

Well it was good enough for Safie, and lots of others, and you have yet to do the right thing...

[boat fan]

Hey Mas ...8000 XXXX Gold "tinnies", glued together with more than a dozen cartons of silicone + 2years collecting.......:D I think I`ll build one ...just need to gather a big " dream Team " .......Who needs DUFLEX ????:D :D :D

[Frosty]

Well it was good enough for Safie, and lots of others, and you have yet to do the right thing...

????????????????????????????

[masalai]

boat fan, that sort of thing will get you to the annual Darwin Regatta usually "sponsored" by a pub or club...

Frosty, I just get "Ancient piece of shit"... :D:D:D

[masalai]

Deck is starting to go on and the next phase in the chainplates

[masalai]

I have been adding up the numbers and seems electric has to go as the batteries are toooooo heavy at 320kg for 16... and the genset at 100kg or so plus water plus fuel plus plus plus........ are shit...... time to throw some unnecessary ballast overboard (well to NOT buy some of it) so 150kg for the batteries or I could get down to 55AH & 48V from 4 batteries at 48v as a "buffer" for the electric motors and 4 (24v & 110AH to drive the inverter/s) set up for the galley/house, with the lighter weight electric torqeedos (weighing around 20kg with wiring each) or running off the genset directly and 1000 watts of solarpanels = 100kg, or the full deal = 200kg for 2000watts? or 4 stroke 2 x 15hp outboards??? - - - decisions decisions, decisions:D:D:D

Time to do some number crunching on "house" needs, and can I use the same batteries WITH the genset running when using electric outboards (electric outboards do not give much reverse thrust)

[boat fan]

I have been adding up the numbers and seems electric has to go as the batteries are toooooo heavy at 320kg for 16... and the genset at 100kg or so plus water plus fuel plus plus plus........ are shit...... time to throw some unnecessary ballast overboard (well to NOT buy some of it) so 150kg for the batteries or I could get down to 55AH & 48V from 4 batteries at 48v as a "buffer" for the electric motors and 4 (24v & 110AH to drive the inverter/s) set up for the galley/house, with the lighter weight electric torqeedos (weighing around 20kg with wiring each) or running off the genset directly and 1000 watts of solarpanels = 100kg, or the full deal = 200kg for 2000watts? or 4 stroke 2 x 15hp outboards??? - - - decisions decisions, decisions:D:D:D

Time to do some number crunching on "house" needs, and can I use the same batteries WITH the genset running when using electric outboards (electric outboards do not give much reverse thrust)

Outboards Mas ......Sorry.

How thick is that decking Mas ?

[Manie B]

Mas my 2 cents as well

Outboards Mas ......Sorry.

100's of easy's cant be wrong, plenty schionning also :idea:

[masalai]

The difference is they are mostly "marina boats" for weekend jollies and slightly extended during vacations... Mine is to be an extended cruise permanent live aboard... there lies the difference and dilemma... Quality (clean/fresh) unleaded petrol is not easy to find in some regions of the south pacific, I can get coconut oil at most villages (they make it - or I can)...

[Boston]

You want an ugly competition?

My wife calls me "pumpui uha lan min keio"

Rough translation = bald headed fat bastard with smelly arm pits.

She loves me realy!! I think.

now that was dam funny Frosty
you gotta get some points for that

[judy]

Outboards Mas ......Sorry.

Better still, shaft drive Nanni diesels with v-drive gearboxes. We will have the 30hp model - yours would zoom with the 21hp, or maybe even the 14?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2637/3988935545_32396ddb97.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scrumblecatamaran/3988935545/)

[masalai]

Judy,
Thanks for the thoughts and ideas, - - for a twin, that puts 2 x 100KG plus right aft and defeats the electric galley... which I have mostly got... and the genset which will be delivered today (afternoon or tomorrow)... Mine is a 39-C and the engine in that configuration would have to go forward of that bulkhead partially under the aft berth and almost impossible to remove later.... I also have minikeels...

[boat fan]

The difference is they are mostly "marina boats" for weekend jollies and slightly extended during vacations... Mine is to be an extended cruise permanent live aboard... there lies the difference and dilemma... Quality (clean/fresh) unleaded petrol is not easy to find in some regions of the south pacific, I can get coconut oil at most villages (they make it - or I can)...


I hear you Mas .......but what to do ?....The diesels and v dive are good , but the weight like you said ....you could get by on outboards Mas ...other " real " boats do.

Like you said before ...compromises ....

[Frosty]

Getting to the weight problems now I see. Everything weighs something and a little bit here and a little bit there mounts up --"it is the sum of"

Even bloody paint weighs a lot. One of the heaviest items on my boat was starter wiring,--2 engines 4 wires as short as I could but still 4 meters each, they were 15 kilo approx.

When the crane driver takes the load you will be hovering around the driver trying to peek at the gauges, pay him money to lie to you.

And when it gets in the water and your water line is already up, you burst into tears because you hav'nt got an anchor or chain on it yet.

Pots pans knife and forks, Oh and mattresses , very heavy.

[boat fan]

Bloody gravity ......:D

[masalai]

Quick, - - Where can I get a reliable sky hook? :D:D:D:D

[hoytedow]

Mas my 2 cents as well



100's of easy's cant be wrong, plenty schionning also :idea:

Wat is 'schionning':confused: ?

[boat fan]

Wat is 'schionning':confused: ?


http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.schionningdesigns.com.au%2F&ei=dH3MStqiKoWIswOE_9CQAQ&usg=AFQjCNFOteCXbxoim0Fjneo3rbeFlkZiBw&sig2=YeVXdduKZCNFLqVVkwidFQ

[Alan M.]

The difference is they are mostly "marina boats" for weekend jollies and slightly extended during vacations... Mine is to be an extended cruise permanent live aboard... there lies the difference and dilemma... Quality (clean/fresh) unleaded petrol is not easy to find in some regions of the south pacific, I can get coconut oil at most villages (they make it - or I can)...

I think it's a bit of a myth about petrol not being available. And outboards don't have catalytic converters so they don't give a shit about whether it's unleaded or leaded.

I've been to some fairly remote bits of the Solomon's, also visited New cal and Vanuatu, and what you see is hundreds of locals running around in outboard powered boats. They're not usually diesel.

On land they all get around on scooters - they're not diesel either.

Most of Bob's boats under around 50' are outboard powered. Some of them are cruise fairly remote areas. Just have good filters and spare elements.

Oh and remember, you have sails. ;)

[masalai]

hehehe.....

[Fanie]

Getting to the weight problems now I see. Everything weighs something and a little bit here and a little bit there mounts up --"it is the sum of"

Even bloody paint weighs a lot. One of the heaviest items on my boat was starter wiring,--2 engines 4 wires as short as I could but still 4 meters each, they were 15 kilo approx.

When the crane driver takes the load you will be hovering around the driver trying to peek at the gauges, pay him money to lie to you.

And when it gets in the water and your water line is already up, you burst into tears because you hav'nt got an anchor or chain on it yet.

Pots pans knife and forks, Oh and mattresses , very heavy.

I think you're doing it wrong Frosty. A man could hurt his back carrying heavy stuff like that. Have the missus carry it instead. If you look at statistics it's 99% of men that have back problems because they pick up too heavy stuff, while females for some reason doesn't. You can always cook her dinner or something.

[Frosty]

I cooked her dinner last night, but she complained the beans were cold and the toast was burned.

[masalai]

Sheeeesh lintels on toast? no wonder you got that name:D:D:D, a little effort would not go astray and require very little more work for a far greater reward:P:P:P If Baked beans on toast then that is for yourself with a couple of soft yokes cooked eggs to promote smelly farts as an act of rebellion/revenge, "that causes mostly self-inflicted pain".... as my understanding that the ladies do not appreciate the "dutch blanket"....

[catsketcher]

Gday Mas

I wouldn't worry about petrol, in fact I think it is easier to reason your way into petrol rather than diesel -

-every dinghy with an outboard needs petrol anyway so you are going to carry it even with a diesel boat
-cruisers with outboards will need parts in the Pacific so there will be stockists too
-it is much cheaper to get a common part for common outboard rather than an injector set for your typical diesel
-you have a sailing boat - a really nice SAILING boat. These motors are going to be auxiliaries. If you use them as trade wind bashers you would be doing your boat a dis-service. Think of them as things to use to get out of a pass, into an anchorage and along in a calm. They will need to push you fast into a contrary current and into a trade wind anchorage for a mile at most. They will also get you slipping along when the wind is absent.

For me this type of use is what outboards shine at. For a sailer the lack of legs and folded props is useful and cheap. I worked that out after I costed diesel tanks (I carry 4 jerry cans of petrol and the fuel tank provided), soundproofing, ventilation, motor controls (come with the outboard), stern gland, shaft, P bracket and folding prop (a good one costs more than $3000) I could have an outboard all ready to go for less money - without even thinking about the cost of the diesel motor.

Diesels still suit lots of people - you just need different priorities from me and if you aren't building your boat and can't find bits of stuff to build the nacelles from it costs a bit to make the mounts.

cheers

Phil

[Manie B]

thanks catsketcher good one

[masalai]

What was that ad where the failing comback starts "Year but I was" - - - going to have an electric galley (which I have) and just do the "beach cat stunt" & drive it quietly onto a nearby shallows/beach - beats setting an anchor in 50 fathoms:D:D:D:D for the night and carry one anchor ashore and one, by dingy - or - as one comes in, to pull me into deeper water... I only draw 700mm...

OK you are all making valid points.... and I do want as a light a boat as I can get... After all that is what I have been preaching... Final decision time for that is Jan 2010 or close by then....

Oh Manie, the yellow 39C of "Swiss Chris" is for sale in Cairns http://www.sonarmarine.com.au/ed.html?de=58769 - - - Talk to Bob Oram first if you are interested...

[boat fan]

... and I do want as a light a boat as I can get... After all that is what I have been preaching...

Good man Mas ......:D I just KNOW you won`t turn that georgeous boat of yours into a bloated PIG .......;)

[Alan M.]

Not trying to talk you into outboards, but I'll take and post some pics of how I recessed mine into the sheer panels to make the bracket/nacelle set up much more compact.

[Fanie]

And if I could add to Phill's excellent post there - Mas, it is also easier to tack with an outboard than a diesel :D

Outboards are also lighter, free space inside the boat (you need an ice maker), and can be used to steer better in small spaces. Easy to service and require far less services than diesels. Fishing line and the likes is easy to get off the prop also.

[masalai]

Thanks for all the comment and interest, so now, is it my turn to give you something in return? - - My Genset has arrived, so compact, and so beautifully set up... I heap praises on Sea Wasp and Wattagan for a fantastic job.... LOOK AT THIS.... I am totally wrapped:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D about a 600 to 700mm cube:D:D
http://seawasp.com.au/products/product-range.html
http://www.wattagan.com.au/index.html?target=p_8.html&lang=en-us
No problems and good service from both:D:D:D

[masalai]

And the aft seats and galley is starting to shape up, the space next to the seats will be for a fridge and a freezer of about 170? liters each and then benches with drawers under ("wet galley one side and electric appliances and hotplate the other)....

[masalai]

Alan M.,
The torqeedo is an outboard (electric) and the assembly will be as per species for the maximum size allowed (40hp?) so will be sorted for anything "outboard" - petrol or electric - and someone suggested a diesel outboard... It is just tooo big & heavy so far aft...

I had considered (shaft drive) permanently submerged propeller, as well as folding, and neither, I felt were appropriate... The choice was always electric or petrol outboards...

[Boston]

interesting review of the benefits of an outboard over a conventional engine set up

[masalai]

Hi Boston, Definitely the way to go for light weight multi-hulls (power only - or - auxiliaries for a sail yacht)... applies for both electric & petrol (4 stroke)... and also works for 2 stroke outboards... select whatever for the prefered cruise speed (more power less range)...

[Boston]

ya I always liked your solution with the torquido's
seems that with solar assist you might just have the optimal plan for occasional use
I kinda adopted the torquido idea into my dream boat as well
you had a great suggest
I was just commenting on everyone's take on the peripheral savings of outboard over inboard

[masalai]

I still like Torqeedo, but the battery weight issue and using reverse to stop and be able to accept reduced forward velocity in an adverse headwind situation (my normal response would be - - "Well I am retired, and another day sailing around enjoying a good breeze before coming in to port is neither here nor there..." - - or - - "Oh well I will just head elsewhere, (with the wind), and by then the wind will have eased and no problemo..."

That is one of the issues, - - then add drag from a through hull (even with a folding/feathering prop), - - holes for mechanical stuff (shaft) below the waterline will leak, - - difficulty to fix/repair/change/clear a propeller or shaft or fix a leak, - - absolute pain in the ass to service the engine, - - Similar pain to remove the engine for a major overhaul... - - Almost no case if the option exists for an "outboard" mount...

The genset will be able to be removed relatively easily - unbolt, unplug, disconnect and lift out - almost easier to do the regular service this way...

[Fanie]

Hi Masalai,

Bloody hell that's an ugly gen set :D It looks like a combination between the Lister pump we had on the farm and one of these back packer weed eaters the council use to chop grass with. Oh with an alternator on it.

The radiator goes on the bow, right ;)

Does it work ? You're supposed to start it first to see if it works, then read the manual if something is wrong :D


He he... why don't they make these gen sets 'outboard' as well. Could repeat all the said pro's again.

I'm surprised Mas, the thing has not delivered one watt of power yet other than gravity and you are already making plans to lift it out ? :D

Yes, I'm enjoying this :D

I saw this documentary on crocks in osto%!@*#. The vibration of their skin causes the water to jump off.

I was just wondering if the gen set vibrates like that if the Oram would pick up speed - less wetted area, less drag.

Also wondering if you have to pre-lube it like Frosty's Yanmars. That sounded like a real slep, and all that oil. Probably cheaper to run it 24/7 for a month than to prime it once.

Yes- I'm a 'wonder' person today :D

[masalai]

Well, it has ceramic cylinders and specially treated bearings and stuff so never needs lubrication, nor cooling (as you will notice no radiator) only a wet exhaust system so the thing does not behave too much like a military jet engine with full afterburners on....I do not know how to get rid of the excess energy and was going to warm the oceans to increase precipitation globally (or for a BIG fee, to not run it and so avoid global warming) - It burns very little fuel using molecular fusion technology...

[boat fan]

[

What a gem Mas !!!

Quite compact too.

I was really secretly hoping for the torqeedos too :(

Fuel Cells Mas ...who can make that work and affordable ....:D:D:D

[masalai]

I have the electricity generation covered - storage is the problem - - cost & weight & reliability & ability to charge with what I have - - (genset for 48VDC nominal @ 6000W and PV panels ~2000W) - - - Seems not many batteries like soooo much juice - I hoped for a 1 hour engine run per day or less... I haven't done all my sums yet.... as to how much electricity things will consume.... but the genset should keep both the Torqeedo's on half to two-thirds throttle almost continuously...

[boat fan]

How many amp hours does cooking use Mas ?

The other thing i was wondering is fridge ?

[masalai]

Dont know yet.... Not bought, Not installed. Washing machine (OZ compliance plate says) is 240vAC & 330 watts (no water heating element:D:D:D)

[boat fan]

Really interested in the fridge.....

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=13&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myboatsgear.com%2Fnewsletter%2F200915.asp&ei=xhzPSvjPEJP6sQPRksi5Dg&usg=AFQjCNHdMS_GH5izXflXYAjcz4pvM2y5aA&sig2=qZ4cl2ovP1uFch_Scb4GXQ

http://www.myboatsgear.com/newsletter/200915f.asp

[Spiv]

After much pondering I have decided to go, once again with 4 strokes outboards.
The benefits (at present) far outweight the electric motors.

I know of one guy that has spent close to AU100,000 for a Glacier Bay electric system for his 50' cat and he is having tons of electric and electronic trouble.

It is true what has been said above that you can find petrol in most remote places, natives all use outboards and scooters, all I need to do is be prepared to carry the fuel aboard as petrol pumpe on the jetty are nearly impossible to find. To do that I will build a dinghy that is a sort of big tank and will carry (slowly) a couple of hundred liters of fuel and will have its own built electric transfer pump. I borrowed a similar setup from a fisherman in Dampier and it worked perfectly.

Other advantages I see are:

you can have the prop above the minikeels, so you can reverse off the beach or a reef without hitting thr prop.
pull them up when underway, no drag
no electrolisis as they are mostly out of the water.
reliability: gone are the days of non starting outboards.
Yamahas makes excellent high trust XL in 9.9, 25 and 60HP. (don't touch anything else)
Hi trust reversing with the above engines.
Very little noise ( I had to look at the rev counter to know if they were idling or off)Once electric technology improves, I will remove and sell the power head and replace the gearbox with a suitable electric motor, so I will keep the power trim/tilt and steering ability + have my electric propulsion.

Lastly, I know I said that before, but on a 39' I would put twin 25HP.
A sailing boat only "needs" engines when she really needs them, when you are going into a harbour against strong winds or through a pass against the wind and tide.
Differently from diesels, outboards are much more economical to run at 1/2 to 3/4 trottle than at full speed and you have the reserve trust for when you "need" it.

[Fanie]

Hi Stefano,

Any remote chance of some pictures of your boat ?

I'm also very ineterested to see how your sails is going to turn out.

[masalai]

Stefano, - - - post Fanies request here if you like...

boat fan, - - - Fridges are from "Hardley Normal" and standard domestic freezers but 5 star rated efficiency - around Au$450 each and with an external controller on one to make it operate at "refrigeration" temperatures...and at 170+ litres each, BANG for BUCK cannot be beaten... Marinised ones that size would need 4 x "waeco's" at AU$1200 PLUS each ????? - no contest...

So here is the root of my conundrum, I have justified an electric galley on the basis that I will have the battery capacity to meet the needs of the Torqeedo's - - and electric outboards because I need the battery capacity for my comfortable live aboard and independent lifestyle:D:D - - - If the rest of the world goes mad and prices for finite commodities like oils go through the roof, - - (for more reasons than just "peak oil" and "economic systems collapse"), - - I will still have mobility and all my comforts:D:D:D... Therefore I will sit on the metaphorical fence and be able to go either way until very close to launch date in April 2010.... It is almost 50:50 at the moment... Several things will influence me and they are all a mix of "up-front-cost", "weight reduction", "delivered performance" & "resource independence" related...

The Yamaha 25 hi torque are the outboard option at present... but even a pair of 15hp hi torque 4 strokes would be quite adequate...

[Fanie]

Sorry Mas, I didn'y mean here... but thanks.

[masalai]

But I DID:D:D:D:D

[apex1]

Mas,
>>>standard domestic freezers but 5 star rated efficiency<<<
make sure they have a proper ventilation! Optimal is a duct directly outside. You otherwise heat up the room and the compressors run 24/7.

Regards
Richard

[sabahcat]

Have you had a look at these guys?

http://www.solazone.com.au/fridges.htm

They are in your area


I looked at household 240 volt refrigeration but kept getting told by the "experts" that the lack of insulation would let me down horribly

[boat fan]

Mas,
>>>standard domestic freezers but 5 star rated efficiency<<<
make sure they have a proper ventilation! Optimal is a duct directly outside. You otherwise heat up the room and the compressors run 24/7.

Regards
Richard


Could be difficult , fan driven venting ?

[apex1]

Could be difficult , fan driven venting ?

No, just sufficient airflow behind the fridge! And optimal directly outside. Thermal flow is enough!

Richard


I looked at household 240 volt refrigeration but kept getting told by the "experts" that the lack of insulation would let me down horribly

Of course a selfmade box with a modular system can be the better choice, but the doors are a problem. It is pretty difficult to make them yourself, and when you buy them you could as well buy a whole fridge (for less).

Richard

[Spiv]

No, just sufficient airflow behind the fridge! And optimal directly outside. Thermal flow is enough!

Of course a selfmade box with a modular system can be the better choice, but the doors are a problem. It is pretty difficult to make them yourself, and when you buy them you could as well buy a whole fridge (for less).
Richard
I had two 240v 125lt house fridges run by inverter and 1 250lt 12v ice box run by 12v Danfoss type unit.
Due to the poor efficcency of the inverter + the poor insulation + the heating of the fridge recess, the 240v fridges were VERY inefficient and drain my battery banks quickly, even with 480W solar panels at work.
The ice box had 100mm insulation throughout and a thermostat with 7 settings, anithing over 5 started to freeze, so I kept it mostly at 4.
It used only 80W when running and it would only run intermittently as it needed.

I looked at converting the 240 to 12V and was asked about $600 ea, but the insulation on those fridges is really shit.
Richard is right, making the door for an upright fridge is the difficult part.
Converting 240v fridges to 12v without improving on the insulation would also prove to be energy hungry.

[boat fan]

I looked at converting the 240 to 12V and was asked about $600 ea, but the insulation on those fridges is really shit.
Richard is right, making the door for an upright fridge is the difficult part.
Converting 240v fridges to 12v without improving on the insulation would also prove to be energy hungry. __________________

Would it not be worth the inconvenience and trouble to make them top loading with extra thick insulation to save all that lost energy?

I know that top loaders would be hard to load to get access , and the ergonomics aren`t what we are used to ,less convenient to use , but it seems to me that you would not spill all that cold air to the floor every time you opened it , at least ?

[masalai]

I am content with the efficiency of these as one will be a converted freezer and at a price of AU$450 is almost at the "disposable" level when compared to the prices for "Marine" ones.... If worst comes to worst, keep the door, individual drawers and build one into the space (still have the same internal volume and 100mm plus for insulated fixed walls), as there is adequate ventilation... They are on the bridge deck....

I am aware of two others who are using modified domestic FREEZERS as refrigerators on boats with no adverse drain on batteries.... I am NOT using a domestic FRIDGE, but a freezer with a 5 out of 5 star rating (most energy efficient) and it uses sliding drawers (not nickers or long-johns)... and adding an electric gizmo between the external power point and the power-plug from/for the freezer to reconfigure and control its operation for even better efficiency as a fridge... Nothing new and it worked OK for me whilst I was on a sheep station where the afternoon temperature in the shade often got to around 55 degrees Celsius (131 Fahrenheit)

Thanks all for sharing your concern and experiences.... If they fail, I will advise of same and you are all welcome to chime in and remind me, - - with - - "I told you so" hehehe:D:D:D

[sabahcat]

Of course a selfmade box with a modular system can be the better choice, but the doors are a problem. It is pretty difficult to make them yourself, and when you buy them you could as well buy a whole fridge (for less).

Richard

I had wondered what putting 100mm of blue foam on the outer would do and then glue a nice face to the foam.

[Boston]

any sheet metal shop can make you any size door case you want
add your own insulation and magnetic seal and you have a fridge door

[sabahcat]

any sheet metal shop can make you any size door case you want
add your own insulation and magnetic seal and you have a fridge door

Sounds easy when you say it fast

[apex1]

any sheet metal shop can make you any size door case you want
add your own insulation and magnetic seal and you have a fridge door

Yeah if it was so easy Boston......but with that method you´ll have a massive heat conduction through the metal frame. Not what you want!?

I use a 25mm vacuum panel between one 80 and one 100 mm polyurethane foam and a inner case and shelves of riveted aluminium. But thats a walk in fridge and freezer ROOM.

[hoytedow]

This may sound retro, but wood is an excellant insulator and has a classy appearance. Just make sure it is well varnished or painted/sealed against humidity.

[Boston]

insulated door class 101
the door is made of two halves
both have a section of a c with the outside half fitting just over the inside half with room for a non-expanded neoprene gasket ( thermal break )
about a 1/8 thick flat going around the connecting point
the space between the two faces of the halves can be as thick as you want on making them and any box break will bend up the halves
HVAC shops just about all have a good size box break
its just depends on how much insulation you are planing on
reflectex is the best choice if you ask me

back in the day I built a horse trailer camper combo
along with a custom fridge
I used the guts out of an old soda pop dispenser chiller and just made my own
had the chiller components in the back of the truck along with the generator which made sleeping in the camper a lot quieter

thing your really fighting with a home made fridge is frost and moisture control
you need a drain pan in the bottom outside of the insulated area
to collect melt off

oh
the box for the fridge itself is not made up of panels
its a box floating in a box with some neoprene blocks supporting the edges
same detail on the face where the door closes
hinges are bolted with nylon bolts through a neoprene block

stainless looks nice but get the brushed finish so you can brush out any scratches

as for the chiller unit
the soda pop coolers work using a coolant bath that the beverage is piped through
so I removed that piping and put in a thermostatically controlled pump
I pumped some of the coolant out of the reservoir through some insulated pipes
and in through a couple of holes ( lined with gromets from the hardware store )
to an aluminum oil radiator I got at the auto parts place set up inside the fridge unit
I used that expanded neoprene pipe insulation over clear flexible hose I also got at the hardware store
a few pipe clamps later and the refrigerator was up and running like a charm

[apex1]

This may sound retro, but wood is an excellant insulator and has a classy appearance. Just make sure it is well varnished or painted/sealed against humidity.

No no mate, the lightest (stable) wood is Kiri at about 285kg m³ ! Foam is about 40kg m³ !

[masalai]

and balsa? :D:D:D the core of my boat :?: ;)

[apex1]

Would save some cm on foam size................

[Frosty]

Teak is difficult to get even in Thailand. Consiquently I was advised to use a local wood called "Mai yom hom" ,--darker than teak.

I dont know what it wieghs but its not much. Very heavy grain and deep red. All cappings and doors hand made with chinese latice for ventilation making even lighter construction.

The boat fitters were going a bit on the heavy side during construction and I had to alter there approach by asking them to use thinner teak faced ply and brace with battons glued on the back side.

Mai yom hom which means wood that smells when you cut it is common for fit outs here and very large cappings can be used making a look of quality without being heavy.

[Fanie]

I hear they use "How Ley Cow" in some boats too

[Fanie]

Eh Mas, where are you ? Taking pictures ? :D

How's things proceeding ?

[masalai]

OK so it is a "recap" as the team are busy with that most delightful task SANDING :D:D:D ready to apply epoxy and flow-coat inside and finish most of the internals ready to put the deck in place - - - sooooo - - - occasionally the work stops long enough for the dust to settle and hastily grab a few pictures....

[Fanie]

So... it gets a lid too eh. I thought it was an open plan kinda thing :D

[masalai]

2 lids, one for the deck and one above the bridge-deck, (aft of the mast... So I will have somewhere to put the PV panels):D:D:D:?: and to keep me from exposing myself tooo much:P:P:o

For all those in doubt as to the effectiveness of the Torqeedo 4.0 R "outboards" - I hope to have some test data soon, which will set your minds at ease, as well as fill you with more confidence in the effective & efficient use of electric motors (Torqeedo of course)... - - No cheek now, just be patient and give me all your rep points as I need something to pay the bribes to get the stuff to post.... (confidential information has to be paid for you know)

[Fanie]

and to keep me from exposing myself tooo much
So you think any one would notice anything out of the ordinary ? :D

The shame can go either side, to you or to them, depending what you have to show ;) I always say if they haven't seen anything better yet then it's not my fault :D

You took 5 pictures all weekend long ??? What kind of a camera do you have. It may be your shutter speed is set a bit slow.

[masalai]

F'kd if I know, censorship? - - - sure I posted 20 something:?: :D:P:D:P - - gone now:?: