My little piece of peace

[masalai]

Wonders of technology somewhere around April 2010?.... - and the suggested "plus or minus..." applies:D

Yesterdays images, and some of another boats fitting system for solar panels - neat & elegant...

[masalai]

Now, Today I went on an excursion to test the Torqeedo 4.0-R electric outboard and on a largish tri, 925w gave us 3.8knots, 2000w for 4.5knots and 4000w gave about 6knots (adjusted for still water no wind equivalent) pushing an estimated weight nearer to 4,000kg than 3,500kg.... so all in all quite impressive...

The first 2 are what was done today, thence the Torqeedo in position, the veteran sailors discussing stuff after the motoring test and a visitor on the bow...

[Manie B]

The Torqeedo drives are very interesting.
I love the idea of silent motoring, especially early in the morning after a good nights sleep in a remote harbour. I have seen the guys do it with trolling motors here on the dam.

around April 2010?....

have you got the dream team right to the end?
are they also doing the finishings etc.?

Is this a career change

wishfull thinking :D

Are you going to "commercially" produce boats for the saffa market?

More wishfull thinking :D

The sad part about it is that our market is so small that for all practical purposes it actually doesn't exist.
However what i am hoping for is to foster "some" interest and with a bit of luck create a "boat building ring" of "backyard boat builders" My assistance where and when possible comes at the handsome price of a "beer and barbeque"
The average guy cant CAD (never mind FreeShip/development and and) so i will gladly help because i do these things kinda easy?/ok? I draw CAD for a hobby -no rendering!
Accuracy saves time and materials.
This has clearly been illustrated by this very thread that we are on " My little piece of peace" - CAD panels is what i preach day and night
Here in the deepest darkest africa if you loft accurately from cad, you can end up with a first class end result.










the newest post is where you go if you click the link at my "signature area" of any post of mine

done





and your build looks gooooood

[Fanie]

SOLAR Panels ! It looked like a radiator to me. It's probably good that it's a solar panel instead of a radiator :D

Mas, stop moving stuff around and taking the same pictures just from different angles. Come on, it's a once of effort. Finish the little boat now once and for all and get it over wif, will you ?

[masalai]

Oh dear, Fanie,,, blind with jealousy?, they are all different - bog added, torture boarding done, more bog & stuff added more sanding... Man, some things need a bit of curing too... The progress made is as fast as can be made - - gimme a little break will ya? :D:D:D:D:D...

[Fanie]

gimme a little break will ya?

Nope.

[Fanie]

Not blind with jealousy Mas, just po. Not at you either. Bu-hut, someone has to give you a bit of grief to keep you on your toes. I don't want you to get sloppy during the late stages of building :D

It's actually this 4th world country we live in. I'm waiting for the so called metal guys to get their butts in gear and get a move on with a machine I'm building for glassing. In the past where something was done in a week it now takes a month, and that since they implemented this black empowerment everywhere. Now working at africa time some of the whites comfortably fall right in. 4 5 c :(

[masalai]

Ahhhh well counter poo with poo? I thought the whole world is defaulting into 4th then 5th world economy thanks to septic debt or is that toxic debt (stuff that is worthless but cost a fortune in borrowed money) - - so who is rolling in all that surplus cash?

Even gold is falling in price/value because of free market manipulation (was 1400 an oz when all anticipated a rise to 3000 but now has dropped to 11xx/oz in AU$) - because of the increasing value of the AU$ against the US$ and gold price is set in US$ by USA.....

[Fanie]

Just because the whole world is tripping doesn't mean we all should fall on our faces. There is always a choice.

[masalai]

http://financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/deepcaster/2009/0612.html has a partial response... and I am just pissed at the US FED "delaying tactics" whilst it (The US FED) reaps profit from the unsuspecting citizens of USA and elsewhere...

[ThomD]

"Water ballast is a component, mainly to counter use of fuel, food and water during a cruise as light weight cats are load sensitive."

Bob has aspirations a little bit more extreme than that. Like me he is a G32 admirer, a cat with a beam to length ratio of 1-4. Bob is currently dreaming of the Slim range, that will be a 50 foot cat of minimal beam. Water ballast will be significant part of the stability there, and that thinking is in a lot of his boats.

[masalai]

Only one of several interests and tests being carried out by Bob, Just because someone walks does not mean that they are excluded from running, sailing, cycling, flying etc... :D:D:D, My replies relate to my build of one of Bob Orams designs...

[Fanie]

I too think you should chop it in two Mas, make it a looong thin slender thing :D

So, what's happening ?

[masalai]

Oh do you want more pictures showing little change?, - as the work is - - bogging, torture-boarding (sanding & fairing) ad infinitum - - and today to finish the underside undercoat then get ready to join the two halves today or tomorrow... So, you will have to wait till then to see the boat as a floatable object:D:D:D:D

I am still mightily pissed off at our septic friends because of their (Bernankie et al) manipulating foreign exchange rates and gold bullion (actual metal) prices by naked short selling paper on gold to the tune of more than 1.5 million ounces in trades that are known / documented by 2 or 3 or the USA banks that were bailed out by the FED (under the instructions of the FED?)... I used to think there was an expectation of some moral responsibility by the USA in respect to having the US$ as the global currency of trade... - - - Now I know better if it does not suit USA domestic issues/needs/aspirations then the rest of the world can just bugger off and cop the losses.... However I expect (hope for) an improvement in the price of bullion for the rest of the world, in the second half of 09...:D:D:D:D a 45 minute round table discussion here http://www.financialsense.com/Experts/roundtable/2009/0613.html pick your preferred audio format to download or listen as a streamed podcast...

[masalai]

Yeeee Haaaah, the hulls are together, does that mean I have a boat?

[masalai]

And some more:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[judy]

Yeeee Haaaah, the hulls are together, does that mean I have a boat?

Not until the bridgedeck join is taped.....

Love the "high tech" supports - a bit like the Suzuki car jacks we used. Also love the reinforced lifting points.

What happened with the missing starboard beam?

[Manie B]

absolutely marvelous

congrats

it is beoooootifuuullll







and yes you do have a boat :D

[masalai]

I do, I don't - Oh well it is now - or at least I hope it is, as I left around lunch time.... middle ones were temporary, two removed from starboard already...

[Fanie]

Damn, I must be care full not to drool on my keyboard here... :D

Yeeee Haaaah, the hulls are together, does that mean I have a boat?
Easy. Is it a reality or are you still dreaming ? It's up to you. We can only spectate the whole scenario ;)

[Fanie]

Thise bricks are going to cause some slapping and drag. Ok the tin may add some booyancy though.

[masalai]

Just to show that there are other Bob Orams being built, this is the 44C of Neil B, on the Sunshine Coast... Just gotta love the sexy colour of his peel-ply, in picture #2203, the bulkhead was zigzagged to enlarge the size of the shower/toilet:D... His hulls are ready for joining and his coach-house is ready for attaching so he is well ahead of me and expects to launch on April fools day next year....

[Frosty]

Mas Im going to tell you something you already know. It is very serious and you need to understand 100%.

You must take care on weight when fitting out.

Yeah I know you know,-- but do you really know that it will kill your boat.


I mean I went and bought plastic mirrors that look just like real ones but are'nt. I didnt paint in some areas because.

I used a sandal wood from Thailand called Mai yom Hom and still I would like to do it again.

Get the batts close to the engines,-- batt cables are bloody heavy.

Dont say Oh I will have to put up with it. It is the sum off.

Telling ya,--- if you dont you will have a dog.

[Fanie]

I agree with Frosty. I calculated some item's 'neglectable' weights and added them. It comes to a scary total.

Normally I would not have worried about the weight...

[masalai]

Frosty & Fanie,
The extent of awareness goes to the bog and undercoat - almost sanded back to before it was applied:D:D:D, No pretty trim on the inside, just sufficient 'flowcoat' to render effective waterproofing, no doors on cupboards that do not need them (also easier to clean and inspect for cockroaches).... Almost everything is purchased on weight (looking at solar-panels - 13.3 watts / kg Sanyo 200W panels x 10 = 2KW peak), Torqeedo "10hp" electric outboards weigh 16.5kg each, genset is about 110kg, 2 plate ceramic cooktop is 5kg but cost $50 at the boat-show, watermaker is being made, and so on.... - The halves of the boat before joining could be moved by 2 people easily so light weight is definitely on the agenda...

[Bob Oram]

Congratulations Brian.
2 blokes, approx 7 weeks, less downtime for wet weather, not bad.
regards
Bob

[Frosty]

I tell yer what too mas,!! don't skimp under the water line.

Settle on a good system,-- Jotun or whoever and do it right first time.

I didnt and had to gently hand scrape 2 44 foot hulls down to gell and lighty sand of to nothing then I did a 3 pack Jotun system.

Scraping those hulls was soul destroying and taught me a lesson, mind you I had to get out of Auss before the tax man got me.

3 months is all they gave me or I had to pay GST. Thanks Australia!!

And to think I used to own the place.

[masalai]

Frosty old chappie (does that sound familiar?), if you look at the posted images I am sure you will see several containers (now empty) with the distinctive Jotun labels :D:D:D aaaannd, you would have been less distressed if you sold your boat, and built a Bob Oram design.... :D:D:D

Thanks Bob, about 7 days downtime...

[Frosty]

What is the weight of the empty hull?

And what is the expected completed weight.

[masalai]

A little less than expected and also for the completed ready to cruise finished product... bathroom scales could not make it... :D:D:D design says max is 4862kg - I am aiming for less than 4500 ready to cruise.... ?

some images, inside looking aft, along stbd hull, "wombat" a stubborn device that is used to apply epoxy evenly to both sides of cloth of varying widths - easily and effectively...

[Frosty]

Yup thats what I was aiming at, its 14 tons now.

[judy]

Yup thats what I was aiming at, its 14 tons now.

.....obviously not an Oram design......:rolleyes:

[masalai]

No, No, No, and definitely not yes, to misquote from "Vicar of Dibley" - You are thinking of an ex-wife, she is up near 14 tonnes now... I think I found another boat to store all the crap and excess baggage - it is safe as it should never go to sea - I may post a picture soon.... :D:D:D:D

If you guys are going to get political, listen to this http://www.financialsense.com/Experts/2009/Mohr.html American way to kill a good idea/company just to make a quick buck...

[Frosty]

.....obviously not an Oram design......:rolleyes:


No its a cold molded Seawind Ventura 44 solid glass under the water line.

Asymmetric wave Piercing hulls.

The deck will not be damaged by dropping car keys on it.

I think 2x250hp would rip an Oram apart.

It weighed a disappointing 7 tons when lifting to the transporter without the bridge on at that time. I had been told it would be less and my calculations for engines were working on less.

With a ton of water and 1-1/2 tons of fuel she still comes up and settles down at 20KTS. Once up and running she does'nt wander ,--your don't take her out she takes you out ,--- 35 liters an hour.

Turbo boost meters rarely move up from there stop,

With the surface props and the high RPM needed to get her up it would be a little difficult for a newby.

I cant expect more economy than that

[Scrumble]

I think 2x250hp would rip an Oram apart.
Good Day Frosty,
How do you find this power to weight ratio?

http://boboramdesign.wordpress.com/50-allura/

Tom
http://scrumbleproject.wordpress.com/

[Frosty]

Something wrong here, the Allura uses twice as much fuel, is 3 1/2 tons lighter and uses 400HP to do 20 KTS and yet has 11 feet longer water line.

[masalai]

Is that the "chutzpah factor" where the stink-boaties demand a respectable fuel consumption to justify their lifestyle (and ensure only the wealthy can match their lifestyle of extravagance), where a deep throaty rumble is mandatory? and Frosty that was a 55 and over-engined for that effect, as, if your "fuelefficient toyota's" were installed, then 20knots as per your current - and do not forget your efficiency is enhanced with surface piercing screws.... I am sure Bob could adapt to achieve your desires - Place an ORDER..... my build site will be available in April?

[Frosty]

Of course mas, you did'nt know this?

A stink boat is the ultimate big balls macho man shit. I have straight thru exhausts and man they howl, tee hee.

With Captains hat,-- and as soon as the wife can do it I want some stripes on my shoulders, I go to the bridge look stern and confident and ask the linesmaen to "loose" ( I know its German but I heard it one day and thought,-- ooh that sounds good.)

Then slowly very slowly leave the dock, select starboard astern as soon as I can missing the dock by feet, do a lovely pirouette while I pretend to look at gauges and play with buttons N stuff.

Then select both engines FWD and glance back to wave.

If you've never done this it the dogs bollocks

I thought I might get one of those things that go in your ear and pretend to be in communication with the marina or something.

[Boston]

going to have to start calling you capt Ron

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8alNxLjCBJc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8alNxLjCBJc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[masalai]

Ahhhhh sheeeeite, the video stopped mid climax, just after he turned the wheel fiddled with something then the shot over the band on the dock - FROZEN SOLID then vanished all because of narrow band from pigbond - :eek: :confused: :?: (I paid my account on time too).... WTF, can someone just post the link?

Frosty, is that something like the under-endowed loosers in the testicular & with erectile disfunction department, who buy land vehicles with stickers like "JetPilot", and have phat tyres, 6" exhaust pipes, double quad headlights, faded ladies knickers hanging on the aerials (actually corner markers for the vehicle)? and pay hookers to ride their pimpmobile 'caus that is the only way they could get a female any-where near them? - - - soooo sorry for those poor deluded sods:D:D:D:D

Stories and other evidence from when Errol Flynn was in PNG seem to suggest he was very useful in spreading his genes everywhere 'till he got chased out of town to make a name for himself in Hollywood.... He did not need such accoutrements, as some seem to need, as postulated above....

[Frosty]

Awwh geez you missed a fantastic VDO there mas. But a better VDo appears in the menu where this guy does similar in a power boat but its not a Hollywood job. I think its called near miss or something.

I come in very slowly because crunching noises turn out to be very expensive and the tide pases sideways through the marina.

Fortunately I have 2 docks so I cant hit anyone but I do stay midd way and don't throw lines until I am positioned.

I usually radio my neighbor to help out, the marina staff always seem to stand down wind or down tide when I really need securing up wind or tide.

They take it personally and ride away on their bicycles when the missus throw lines to my neighbor who is correctly positioned to tie the boat up correctly without bouncing off fenders etc.

Once its hanging off the lines with at least one springer I cut the motors and come down to help.

[masalai]

Well please, just post a bloody link, please,,,,,,, as I did not get the email-alert of Boston's post and all that shows up on my screen is the video (could also be my browser "protecting me" from intrusions as I have turned off many "run automatically" functions to stop overlays of spam videos).....


Thanks Tom :D:D:D rewards have been posted:D:D:D

[Scrumble]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8alNxLjCBJc

[Boston]

hey Mas If you want to watch the whole thing its bloody hilarious
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_QINK46MOI

[masalai]

Boston, Thanks, will watch again, just couldnt recall some of it...

[masalai]

Thursday and all the fiddley bits like making holes for doorways and fitting bulkheads etc so, nothing dramatic but here are some shots... The "mast" bulkhead is just sitting there and will be fixed in place today as will the next bulkhead aft which has glass chainplates which, I am told can each carry the entire weight of the boat...

[Frosty]

Don't forget the microwave and a place to bung the telly. Seriously the most used items on my boat.

Oh and fridges, I use cocktail fridges,--domestic 5 years now no trouble and if I do I can buy new for 100 dollar. I can run all fridges and air con on the gen, or the fridges on the inverter when at sea.

By the way my Gen is a modified industrial deisel electric start, 1/4 the price of a "marine" without water !!!!! Interested ??? ive had it for 5 years and its never missed a beat. it weighs 35 kilo and can be replaced at the local farmers shop.

I can run it when im on the hard or the beach,--no its not on the deck its down below and with the telly on you cant hear it.

I hate marine stuff,-- expensive crap.

Wanna hear about the marine wiper motor? 3 months,-- replaced for Toyota 4 years ago,--(I forgot about that one)

[masalai]

Most of my domestic stuff is standard domestic, and these Hi-Tech batteries with a 10yr guarantee at more than 3 times the price of a standard car one with a 3 yr guarantee??? - Had a good brain fart the other day, half inch copper waterpipe with thick insulation makes an excellent conductor for the 48v cable at less resistance and greater surface section to carry more amps or same amps at less $$$... :D:D:D flatten the ends and copper connect to busbar for distribution & fuses at either end and after busbar... Is that good or have I miscalculated somewhere?

[Frosty]

48V ??? whats that for?

Im all for interesting ideas but if they are too radical they may devalue your boat.

[masalai]

Torqeedo (2 year replacement guarantee) electric drives (I call them "outboards") that require 48VDC and can use 4400watts for a short time and cruise easy at 500 to 2500watts... should give me up to about 6 knots in "no wind calm seas" - for more data I will have to wait 'till it is launched... Solar panels (2000watts and have room for a discrete 3000watt installation), 21hp kubota DC charger and batteries with appropriate inverters will power the domestic stuff, generator to catch up if the batteries lag a little and whilst "motor-sailing" on a cloudy day.

[masalai]

I am told electricity runs on the surface and there are 2 surfaces in a tube(for almost 8cm skin section), weight is about the same as tinned fine wires bought cable used to deliver for 2 x 10 Kw 48VDC motors on another boat, and we figured, slightly better skin section... I need a specialist low volt sparkie to verify the numbers 48 VDC nominal, how many amps? then what would be the equivalent in fine wired tinned bought cable...

[masalai]

Torqeedo (2 year replacement guarantee) electric drives (I call them "outboards") that require 48VDC and can use 4400watts for a short time and cruise easy at 500 to 2500watts... should give me up to about 6 knots in "no wind calm seas" - for more data I will have to wait 'till it is launched... Solar panels (2000watts and have room for a discrete 3000watt installation), 21hp kubota DC charger and batteries with appropriate inverters will power the domestic stuff, generator to catch up if the batteries lag a little and whilst "motor-sailing" on a cloudy day.

I need the 48v for the above, 2 x torqeedo 4.0R which actually peak out at 4400watts 48VDC each

[Landlubber]

Mas,

Solid wire is not allowed on boats, both by regulation and common sence.
Fulti strand wire absorbs harmonic shocks and tends to not break under repeated vibrational forces.

Sectional area is the area of wire we use mate, measured now in MM 2.

4400W / 48 V = 92 amps, say 100.

Using battery cable (tinned to help prevent capilliary salt water damage), is still going to be the best deal, as long as the cables are not too long (keep the batteries near the motors), you do not need any thicker than 25mm2.
25mm2 is good for 3M distance, 35mm2 for 6M distance and 50mm2 for 10M distance. The best of thgese would be the 50mm2 because it allows nearly double the ampacity required (less resistance) and it is still physically light and very flexible.
Remember when sizing wiring that the run length is actually twice the measured length (the power comes from the battery and back to the battery to complete the circuit).

[Boston]

Most of my domestic stuff is standard domestic, and these Hi-Tech batteries with a 10yr guarantee at more than 3 times the price of a standard car one with a 3 yr guarantee??? - Had a good brain fart the other day, half inch copper waterpipe with thick insulation makes an excellent conductor for the 48v cable at less resistance and greater surface section to carry more amps or same amps at less $$$... flatten the ends and copper connect to busbar for distribution & fuses at either end and after busbar... Is that good or have I miscalculated somewhere?

wont work mate
the juice will ground out to the water in the pipes
at best it will cause electrolytic destruction
at worst when the girl flips on the bidet for the first time she is in for a surprise

not sure about boat electrical
its been a while
but when I built my horse camper trailer code dictated sso wire for both ac and dc applications with crimp connectors

[masalai]

But, but, but it is a bus-bar for the 48V from generator (forward of the mast), batteries (just aft of centreboard), & electric motors (just aft of the aft berths) - no water through, just as a bus-bar... So if that is not recommended/advised then back to 600 strand tinned copper cable.... 240V AC stuff must have a separate earth (copper or other earthing plate below the waterline) and that earthleakage trip fuse thingy.. - - and ac will be isolated from DC stuff)...

[Frosty]

He did not say he would have water IN the water pipes!! Just use the surface area to carry the load.

I can understand you Mas.

However the cat that I look after has been sold,- I might have mentioned it but is was put up for sale about 10 minutes after sea trials with Vetus electric motors,-- a disaster to say the least.

The calcululations as to how much power they used was way out.

He needed a 100amp batt charger to keep them running and his 240AC gen was'nt big enough to run that.

Maybe Mass is a bit cleverer than my mate was. I hope so.

[Frosty]

Phew nearly posted on top of you there mas.

Regarding earth of AC. You might want to think about how many appliances you buy these days needing earth. Almost everything I buy is 2 pin except the microwave.

In a marina you are putting yourself up as the ground system if thiers fails, like what happened here and my missus screemed "sinking" one night and saved the guys boat 60 ft steel that had no bottom in it.

I have but 2 wires on my AC --in and out. I always wire like that. I don't have any trouble because I don't have anything to have trouble with.

The kettle is plastic , all my power tools are plastic along with the blender , rice cooker, and fridges and the washing machine.

Those few that dont,-- have plastic handles anyway, and if its shorting to earth it probably wont work in which case it is replaced. But none of this has happened.

Now!!! what is the earth for?

[Landlubber]

The only way to be sure of AC being isolated from the shore power system is to use an isolation transformer on the boat as close to the shore power inlet as is possible, that way there is NO contactable direct return to earth in case of power failures.

[masalai]

Landie thanks for the post, but to clarify - NO shore power, just inverters for "domestic stuff" (ro watermaker @AU$4k, 'fridge option, freezer option - may stick with 24vDC boxes - washing machine, microwave, vacuum cleaner and electric cooktop...) The 2 electric drives are 48v DC max draw is 4400W each but cruise expected to be less than 2000 watts each. The rest - marine stuff - will be 12 or 24VDC. My electrical energy will be 48VDC solar PV panels and/or 48VDC genset using Delco alternators rectified to meet charging requirements of the "house bank" batteries.

[Landlubber]

Mas, seriously do you expect that 2.6hp is enough to make your boat"cruise"....2000W / 750 is the approx hp. It will make the boat move in calm water for sure, but any more than 10 knots of wind and you will need a lot more hp to drive all that windage.

[masalai]

If you are referring to the Torqeedo, YES - a single one is pushing a 45 ft? tri at 6knots (calm seas/no wind) with estimated weight of 3.5 tonnes plus... The genset will make 6000watts...

[masalai]

Here is the panel for the "chain-plate" built in and preparation for the doorways - standard strengthening and sealing of the balsa...

[Fanie]

Nice going Mas.

[masalai]

From the trip up to the Sunshine Coast, on another 44C build, a davit and mounting system to be fitted soon... slight over-engineering, with a capacity of about 500kg each...

[Frosty]

500kg??? each???

Mas, mas, mas, I don't think so.

[masalai]

We both hung off one, and at 200kg that is OK by me:D:D:D... Some high tensile stuff.... and maybe I got some numbers wrong (not the first time:D:D)

[Alan M.]

Something wrong here, the Allura uses twice as much fuel, is 3 1/2 tons lighter and uses 400HP to do 20 KTS and yet has 11 feet longer water line.

That's 30 knots. http://alluramarine.com.au/

[Frosty]

Well your web site is wrong then.

[Alan M.]

I don't have a web site.

Did you watch the video in the link I posted? It shows the boat doing 30 knots.

[Frosty]

Ok I just looked at your link. Your specifications page says that you do 20kts using 400HP of the available 750HP using 80 liters an hour.

I am 44 feet, 14 tons and at 20kts I use 40 liters an hour I have no idea how much Hp I am using from the available 500HP but rpm is approx 3500 from max 4200 and the turbo boost meters are on zero. Speed is GPS.

[masalai]

I think allura is catering to the penile-challenged over capitalised? - - - Heck, I think the Brisbane "City Cats" have better performance & fuel economy than that, but they do not make waves do not roar so noisily and work only in the shelter of the Brisbane River from Queensland University campus down to the Hamilton Reach... I think blared has a picture in his library....

[Alan M.]

Ok I just looked at your link. Your specifications page says that you do 20kts using 400HP of the available 750HP using 80 liters an hour.

I am 44 feet, 14 tons and at 20kts I use 40 liters an hour I have no idea how much Hp I am using from the available 500HP but rpm is approx 3500 from max 4200 and the turbo boost meters are on zero. Speed is GPS.

Honestly, it's really not my website.

And to prove it, I actually thought you were talking about 20 knots being the top speed. I haven't even looked at the specifications.

BTW 40 litres per hour for a 44' 14 tonne boat at 20 knots is truly amazingly good consumption.

[masalai]

Not all that magnificent, but Frosty's boat is Australian, :D:D I have seen a couple that will do with less than 30l/h at 20 knots... The original challenge by Robin Chamberlin, cruised "foriegn affair" from Brisbane to Hobart a bit slower and around 1.3 litres/nautical mile...

[Manie B]

These fuel consumption figures make me dizzy

here in deepest darkest afrika i can get a budget flight from one end of the country to the other for the same amount that these guys spend on ONE HOURS fuel

he he - microcruisers rule man :P

Mas - looking good - go man go

the davits should have been bent and not welded
local muffler shops have nice pipe benders for car exhaust pipes

:idea:

[Fanie]

Geez Frosty, I think you're suffering from some avatar disorder. Now it looks like some eastern figure with two huge white tits over the shoulders which I assume represents heaven ??

Sorry Mas.

[masalai]

And here was innocent me thinking it was a sunset with Frosty's head hiding the sun?:D:D:D:D

Obviously you retards need pictures, and since I am a spiritual being and not debased by crass sexual references, herewith your photographic progress report - visually less 'in your face' with changes, but that is what happens when the internals/fit-out is being done...

[Frosty]

Geez Frosty, I think you're suffering from some avatar disorder. Now it looks like some eastern figure with two huge white tits over the shoulders which I assume represents heaven ??Sorry Mas.

Fannie its god!!! not an eastern figure with tits.

I like your avatar, I wanted Benny Hill too, I looked everywhere for a picture of him, where did you get that.

[Alan M.]

Not all that magnificent, but Frosty's boat is Australian, :D:D I have seen a couple that will do with less than 30l/h at 20 knots... The original challenge by Robin Chamberlin, cruised "foriegn affair" from Brisbane to Hobart a bit slower and around 1.3 litres/nautical mile...

They did extremely well to achieve 1.3 litres/mile then. Apparently they were targetting 1.8. Which was considered "a standard not attained in the current crop of pleasure power boats." ( http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/index.cfm?SEID=2&Nid=12627&SRCID=0&ntid=0&tickeruid=0&tickerCID=0 )

Which is why I felt that 2 litres/mile at 20 knots in a 14 tonne boat was pretty good going.

[masalai]

I do not think that Frosty knows the difference between litres, gallons and barrels when he is drinking, except to curse when they are empty...

A smaller one (in my gallery) could happily do better than 1 litre/mile at 15 knots & I was tempted to buy it but I wanted greater range - which meant 40 ft LOA and I ended up back sailing via the 39C I am building now :D:D:D:D

[masalai]

batteries, genset and solarpanels are on my mind at the present and to clarify the specs for them I need to settle on domestic power needs, ships nav & lights, computers and winches - anchor winch will be powered - (but the 2 genoa winches - electrify? - not really sure there....)

[masalai]

I may have found some suitable batteries http://www.forklift-batteries.com.au/classic-range/ or ".../liberator/" range more information in the following weeks I hope, does anyone have some data other than the website on these batteries?

[Richard Atkin]

Hi Mas. Awesome thread, awesome boat. I haven't been visiting this website for ages. Congratulations. You must be having fun.

[Alan M.]

Any reason for not using the same batteries as Bryan? By far the best value for AGM's I've found. Got 10 of them myself.

[masalai]

These are not AGM - and not committed yet - still researching...

[masalai]

OK lotsa shots as today is Friday...

[masalai]

And another four images... - - in the previous set image 2249 is where the batteries will go, and looking aft in image 2251 is the "entrance to the berth, under which the batteries will be placed in boxes and belayed firmly into position.... Possibly wet cells and in a flow-coated, glassed, balsa cored duflex panel containment area ventilated by "computer fans" in plastic pipes to push any hydrogen etc out...

[masalai]

The engines I intend to use are the torqeedo cruise 4.0R, unless something absolutely brilliant is offered instead?...:D:D

[Manie B]

Looking good Mas


Mas i have one of those wierd questions for you and your team

how efficient is it to tow one of those spinning water generators behind a sailboat?

or put another way
if i had a long light shaft with a propeller trailing behind whilst sailing, and that is connected to a 50 amp alternator with built in regulator (belt drive to get the speeds RPM right)
what would be involved

point is
windvanes are very expensive per amp output
solar panels are rediculously expensive for 6 hours a day output
my home work at this very early stage, shows that i can run a small 4hp fourstroke engine with beltdrives onto 2x 50 amp alternators for say 2 hours a day and use the same amount of money in 7 years as what folks are spending on solar panels


which basically means - the more i learn about your setup
the more i like it
and i am starting to think that what you are doing could be done on a small scale as well - even by amateurs :idea:

[Manie B]

nice video of torqueedo

http://www.torqeedo.com/us/sn/image-library/videos/cruise-video.html

[masalai]

It was quite popular in the 70's and used about 100m of non twisting rope/wire with a sort of spiral screw (as opposed to a propellor shape) and drove a modified generator that charged at relatively low rpm of some of the coastal small cargo boats 40 to 80 ft as they had little by way of other electronics.... a little 3hp honda engine with a "car alternator" would be a better option is solar-panels are not viable... - work out what you need in watt-hours & voltage on the electronics forum - or ask Fanie?

To do my system one must make certain decisions on cooking, refrigeration, motive power and a lot of other things to justify an all "electric boat"... partial system is too expensive to validate. I have one 21hp diesel engine generating 48VDC to charge batteries for galley etc (house bank) which also supplies the engines and nav and everything else and with 2000 to 3000 watts of solar panels - I figured it had to be an ALL ELECTRIC option else I could not justify the expense.... There is no gas for the stove as the hotplates are 240v as is microwave oven....

[masalai]

Torqeedo works well and is electrically efficient and thrust is similar to a 9.9hp outboard on the 4.0R cruise model but reverse is not much because the propeller is optimised for forward thrust (to get reverse thrust I would like to see an option where the leg could be turned around to effectively redirect the thrust backwards...) about A$6200 each I think and replacement warranty for 2 years - there is one running at full thrust, 24/7 since the Sanctuary Cove Boat Show on the Gold Coast starting around 22 May 2009 until self (if possible) destruction....? I might even put a smaller Torqeedo on the tender...

Manie, I am definitely not an expert, I am a farmer who also does community development in undeveloped, developing regions - basically I have taught myself to see and think "outside the box" and use what is available... Often I get some of the detail wrong, but will eventually make the best of a situation... knowledge tends to accumulate over time in an enquiring mind...

[masalai]

Manie, - and all others watch/listen to this, it is beginning to get really scary - this USA economic meltdown thing http://inflation.us/videos.html

[Scrumble]

That Oram Boy is a wonder, very good progress Mas

[masalai]

Thanks Tom, I am well pleased with the progress on the boat too....

[NEWENGLAND]

Nice looking Boat.

It would be a great passenger tour boat if you build one with an open deck and a pair of Cummins 700HP High output Diesels in it. You could run it on BioWhilly! and it would Boot-Scoot-Boogy!


How much would one of those boats cost? I am looking for a new Charter boat.

Capt Walt

Newenglandcharters@maine.rr.com

[jdarling]

I may have found some suitable batteries http://www.forklift-batteries.com.au/classic-range/ or ".../liberator/" range more information in the following weeks I hope, does anyone have some data other than the website on these batteries?

I don't have any information about the batteries that you asked about, but can say that when it comes to inexpensive batteries your local hardware store and radio shack are your friends. No, I don't mean the ones on their shelf's, I mean the ones in the recycle box.

With a little sweet talking to the managers they will let you take whatever you want from the box. Look for the LiON's and check cells carefully and you can get a very nice battery pack for nothing more than the cost of gas back and forth for quite a few trips. Believe it or not, this is how the original Tesla was built.

I have a few packs running around that I've used for my home green projects (mainly NiMH, but 1 LiON complete and one LiPO in the works). Just have to watch your cells closely and select your chargers properly as you build.

Just a thought,
- Jeremy

[Fanie]

Ok Mas, I'm going fishing for a week. When I get back I want to hear the full launch saga ok :D

Stay out of trouble -

in a week ;)

Cheers.

[masalai]

NEWENGLAND,
Thanks for your interest and appreciation... This one is not designed to be overloaded with iron crap - design load weight (including passengers and stuff is 4862kg) and the hull shape is for sail, NOT POWER... Send your specifications and requirements to Bob Oram and a deposit so he can commence designing to meet your needs...

Jeremy,
Very amusing, not enough amphours or reliability :D:D:D

Fanie - that will be a looooong fishing trip as launch date, as I have said earlier, is around April 2010:D:D:D, so, if you want to watch the launch, you are welcome, bring some fishes and bread for a barbeque - ready to feed the multitudes...:D:D:D:D

[Frosty]

Just a thought, can you go fishing for a week? what if you catch one ? a week later its going to stink.

[masalai]

Freeze it after gutting and filleting then give it to feed the hungry....

[masalai]

Some more images? 1= looking aft to where a berth will be with drive/house batteries under the near part. - 2= looking forward to storage and washing machine will fit in a opening to be cut. - 3= from the berth forward to the shower area with a doorwau further for the toilet. - 4= forward of the mast to have storage, some water & fuel and the genset as well as RO watermaker, inverters and ships systems & engine start batteries. - out of image forward is anchor winch and chain/anchor locker...

[judy]

Nice looking fillets!

[masalai]

Hehehe - took me a while to twig:D:D:D

[Manie B]

Mas i read on one of the other threads that you have decided to go with normal domestic fridge/freezer units, which i assume are 220 v ac. What is the reasoning behind this. I have been under the impression that it is a power hungry setup, because the invertors 12 v dc to 220 v ac have high losses resulting in a much higher fuel bill to charge batteries. I was told that the best way is 12 v dc compressor refrigeration units. I personally like the 220v domestic stuff, easily obtainable, cheaper to buy, and when its finished throw it away and buy a new one.

[masalai]

My inverter is 48vDC to 240vAC, and from some measurements by Bryan on his 44C, very low draw per day averages, bang for buck, far cheaper (internal volume for the money) and my galley is 240v (hot-plates, microwave, toaster, electric kettle, iron, washing machine & RO watermaker) as well as all the reasons you declared... Recently there seems to be a spate of issues with 12 volt stuff and I would have to make special arrangements for the heavier loads on feeding those items 12 volts anyway - at the present only nav & genset starter motor are 12 volts...

[Frosty]

Mannie --I got 220 V stuff,-- Ok I am 99% of the time in the marina but even when im out I can run fridges for Fa . Your right about the chuck away replace thing. These marine companies have fkd themselves , no one want this expensive crap that lasts 3 months if you lucky or need an expensive mother boards to fix it. Well I don't.

[marshmat]

Inverters aren't anywhere near the wasteful power hogs they used to be. Most of the current Xantrex 12-120 units have efficiencies of 85-90%. 24- and 48-volt inverters are better still, some reach 95%. A long way from perfect, but good enough that the losses are small. If you can save a few thousand dollars on appliances, etc. as a result, that might pay for the inverter, a one-size-larger alternator, and an extra battery or two. And heavy copper cable for high-power DC gear costs a small fortune right now.

It's great to see things really taking shape, Mas :) Keep us posted!

[Manie B]

Thanks guys, very interesting info, you learn everyday.

The invertors that you guys are running / installing, are they "full sine" invertors. My question really is - can you also run "sensitive" equipment like computers and TV's etc and other regular household items.

Then how big, because if you are carefull and only run one or two machines and stay under 15 amps, you could get away with two small invertors for redundancy ??

I know this may sound crazy, but a small 220v bar fridge and invertor on my small microcruiser is WAY cheaper than the "boat" stuff that they quote me on. Here in deepest darkest i pay value for value the same as you do for domestic stuff and Macdonalds (sausage egg Mcmuffin meal + hashbrown+ coffee) :D
Boat sh1t is so frikken expensive here that it is simply out of the question, our market is non existent small.

[marshmat]

Manie & Mas, I think you guys might be on to something good with the 120/240 V galley stuff. I was shocked, last time I was in West Marine, at what some 12 V gear is going for... refrigeration units running well into the four figures, among other things.

I've never had any issues running laptops, phone chargers, etc. off a couple of 300-watt mod-sine inverters, Canadian Tire specials at thirty dollars each. A laptop's power supply includes rectifiers and heavy filtering; they can take a lot of nastiness on the supply line without a fuss. However, microwaves, induction cooktops, analog TVs and many other devices that depend on clean AC power will not like a stepping waveform.

The waveform from a modern pure-sine inverter, even near maximum load, is as clean as, even better than, grid power. Anything that can run on grid power will run just as well on a pure-sine inverter of suitable capacity.

[masalai]

Manie, I am sure Fanies expertise would be better qualified than mine:D:D
Inverters, theoretically, can be run in parallel, with the next cutting in as needed if an appropriate control system is installed to do the switching on and off according to load??? and I am advised some will synch better than others - I am still thinking out on this one - - but not much choice in 48v supply, so I may have to go 4000 watt continuous and a hefty peak load to cover electric motor start - modified sine seems OK for modern computers - especially laptops etc - The issue may be the induced spike on capacitance start electric motors (not many of those left)...

For fridges, pick a front-opening, energy efficient, "draw" type, freezer and add an external thermostat with digital readout and temperature adjustment and a thin thermocouple that hangs over the top and just inside near the top shelf which holds your regular access stuff and set the temp for about 4dec Celsius as in a fridge... All too easy for Fanie - it cuts the power at the "wall plug" so no internal mods needed - therefore re-saleability option later (keeping the thermostat for the next freezer conversion)... My el-cheapo (AU$99.00) 750W microwave seems to survive OK? on a small modified sine wave inverter...

Did you see the 2 plate 15amp 220/240v ceramic covered cook-top I scored on a remnants counter at the "Sanctuary Cove Boat Show" - AU$50.00 :D:D:D:D

[Frosty]

All ive ever had is domestic on a few boats now.

Invertors are sensative little buggers and choosing one carefully to fit its demand is important. I have one that I bought in Aus it was great till I blew it and had it repaired in Taiwan for free ( I connected it into the 240V supply,my fault entirely) .

Motors like full sine and I start my fridges up one at a time after starting at least one engine. It has accidentally handled the kettle as well (1200wat) and the toaster. These kinda things don't care about sine waves.

There is no point having a 2 kw inverter running a computer. You can buy tiny ones very cheaply, this is ideal for lap tops and Cmap.

I would not synchronize them but diversify there obligations.

By the way dont bother buying a small 12inch 12 V Tv I did and it broke, it was expensive too. The repair man says it the inverer gone. Its just a TV with a small inverter inside. It continued to work on 240 V ok, what a rip off.

Just buy any Tv you want and use an inverter



Doing it this way means you dont have to run huge Dc cables to run one. A small 300w invertor will use a much smaller cable.

If you going Invertor and domestic it might be a good idea to think about cable runs and appliance position in your design.

My invertor simply lives near the batteries and I put the 240 volt straight into the ring main, of course I have to go and check the kettle and toaster etc is unplugged first,even then the invertor is protected and will bleep indicating too much load. Good ones are good.

Its all down to familiarity of your equipment, this is the missuses job actually.

[masalai]

Mondays effort is being uploaded as I type... Bryan threw a "spanner in the works", in suggesting that I consider mini-keels and thence fixed rudders instead of centreboard & kick-up rudders - seems like a good idea, quicker and easier build and easier on beaching for bottom cleaning... I think draft goes up from 400 to about 750mm - I will check with Bob Oram if this can be done and is acceptable... For news and developments watch this thread:D:D:D

[Manie B]

As you know i am a huge fan of 40ft cruising cats, and over the past 5 years i have done an endless amount of study on this subject. There is a massive amount of info available that speaks of the ease and efficiency of mini keels. Many "Easy" cats were built that way with great success, they sail well and definately no problems. And as you know their resale values in OZ has remained high.

There were some "Woods" designs built here locally with mini keels that i have sailed on with no real problems, unfortunately they were built so poorly at that time that it actually wants to make you cry. So the boats dont get sailed hard, they are lousy weekend condo's.

I favour mini keels for short handed cruising, they are strong. I am working my bum of on my lifting centreboard and bulb keel - and casing. It is a frightening amount of work.

[RickEdmonds]

Just stumbled across this thread - Mas I'm very interested in your idea of using the Torqueedo's. I'm building a slightly smaller cat but would love to have a diesel generator that also drives a eutectic compressor, with twin (liftable) electric drives. I'll follow your progress with interest.

In a former life I was an electronics expert. I noticed your concept of using copper water pipe to get greater surface area of the conductor, but that doesn't work for DC. DC and low frequency stimulates the electrons deeper into the conductor - as frequency rises (VHF and up), the surface effect you speak of kicks in.

Welding cables are many stranded, but that's for flexibility. If you can find a suitably rated multistrand semi-rigid cable, that should give the lowest losses.

Best

Rick

[masalai]

Manie, did you see the "30ft cat for $21,000" in the coastal passage? http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/recent_issues.html #37 - or here - http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/cheapcat.html - - - no plans, just marine ply and 'that looks OK' plan... :D:D:D

Those pics have a lot of fat in the underwater bums? - (at least the white one) The Easy 'in the sky' looks OK?

RickEdmonds, Thanks for the comment, - - - go and have a look at the "Scrumble Project" - Follow my link for Bob Oram Designs and also visit in Darwin where their build is... Thanks for the guidance - I can get cable OK, just the expense... Copper pipe with the "insulation" used for plumbing hot water and by flattening the ends had a ready busbar from the genset forward of the mast to the batteries and motors aft (not to carry water, just lateral thought and convenience?)...

The Torqeedo is imported by Claude, who is the Australian distributor... He lives up behind Noosa not far from my home... They lack in reverse power, as the propeller is optimised for forward efficiency & perfectly matched to the electric engine... I understand that there is an engine being tested at 'Sanctuary Cove' running full throttle 24/7 since the boat show there mid May 09... http://www.torqeedoaustralia.com/Torqeedo_Australia/Home.html Have a real good look around as there is lots of stuff on the "4.0R Cruise" and in the other international links... I like it, and am quite comfortable with the prospect of using it on my boat...

I have gone for maximising electrical capacity of the genset and using inverters and high efficiency "domestic 240v vertical freezers with plastic drawers" and de-rating to use as a fridge, with an external high accuracy thermostat to supply power at the plug (so no modification) - LG (GC154-SQS) from "Hervey Norman" for AU$450 with 154Liters volume - beats anything else hands down... I am installing an all electric (NO GAS) galley...

[masalai]

Still in the early fitting out stage with bulkheads and doorways being sorted... The router with the fitting as in 'image 3' does a neat job of removing the balse as in 'image 2'... 'Image 4' shows the doorway reinforced and balsa sealed ready for painting or installing a door... 'Image 1' is a double berth space ready for base upon which to place the innerspring mattress...

[masalai]

Seems a second post to add extra images? (beyond 5), No visible changes of the bows (just to reassure you that at least half is still there) and a view under the bridgedeck with reinforcing girder (doubles as cabling duct etc.) and new supply of mixing buckets and used ones full of rubbish for disposal, then 2 different views of the starboard stern section - my coffee mug marks where the rudder post will be - approximately.... Foreground of 'image 1' is 2 booms made up and ready for fitting on 2 other yachts (44C Orams)...

[Fanie]

Looking good Mas. And thanks for the pics, I save them.

Somewhere in the distant future (if something like that exists) they can look at your boat pictures and and marvel at the slow and primitive building method :D not to mention the hard labour that went into it :D

I'm building a small layup machine on the moment to do just that. If it works a perceived one would be able to layup a hull in a day ;) It should have a good resin to mat ratio and one or two person's only. We'll see.

I was on the second largest sailing cat in SA last week in Richards Bay... it's a monster of a boat. Slightly large for me. If you look for someone you have to walk around to find them, and it's much further to the head :D

[Manie B]

Mas another very interesting item for your "domestic" appliances are fans, the guys swear by them, apparently the 12v hella that are good have become expensive, and i just bought a small desk top 300 dia 220v el cheapo - it is VERY QUIET at low (#1) speed and moves a good an mount of air, so yeah me too invertor and domestic :D

mine is just a micro mini extra teeny weeny system like yours that runs of unleaded :D

[Manie B]

Hi guys here is a question for all you electrically minded lot out there

If i run my 900w 220v microwave for 10 minutes - thru a 2000w invertor fed by 2 x 12v 100 Ah deep cycle batteries - how long do i have to run a 50a 12v automotive alternator with built in regulator to recharge the batteries to full again. I am told that the alternator is fine at 2500 rpm because the exciter coil is fed????

Please dont get carried away with milliseconds and and :D ball park figures for an old fart :D

next stooopid question :P

if i run 2 x 1000w invertors parallel can i draw or use it as 2000w
this is instead of 1 x 2000w invertor
redundancy and all that :idea: keep 1x 1000w spare?

thanks guys - tomorrow is friday - nice boat building weekend ahead - and if i find suitable crew i will post it to brighten up your day :D

[Fanie]

You cannot parallel inverters unless they are synchrinised, so the answer is NO, you cannot parallel them.

A big microwave uses the same energy as a small one to cook the same thing,
the big one just does it quicker.

A 1000W inverter is going to draw 100Amp from your 12V battery.
You can hence run it for an hour off a 110Ah battery max if it is fully charged, although it would probably be less.

You cannot charge the battery at 50A for 2 hours to fill it back up, the battery needs time to fill back up to full. Thumb suck you need to charge the battery AT LEAST for 8 hours, limiting the charge voltage.

You shorten the battery life considerably when you deplete it completely. Best to get some kind of life from the battery is to use as little of it's capacity at a time and charge it back directly after use.

The best option to run a microwave is to use a mains generator that can power the microwave for the time it is in use.

[Boston]

looks great Mass
way to go

hey what color
gold?
har har har
ok bad joke but I just got in from work and my brain isnt back on straight yet
was sunny and hot today and I had to give a lecture
so Im beet
the boat is looking great though
thanks for posting all the pictures and also for the info on the electronics

[Fanie]

GOLD !! Don't be surprised. Expect to see an upside down US flag on it as well :D

[Landlubber]

Fanie, From "down under", the flag is already upside down.....

[masalai]

Oooooh that is code for distress and I am not in the least distressed... :D:D:D and to agree with Landlubber, is surely an indication of the state of USA?

[masalai]

Ok, no images as all the stuff is those annoying fiddly bits but there should be more to show soon as a "cabinet maker" will be joining the team so expect to see some close-ups of shelves and flow-coat finish. Also on my agenda is refining requirements for electrical systems and seeking stuff that fits in with requirements and budget...

And of course, the way the big-business in America is causing fiscal & economic grief in the rest of the world... Jeeees America, clean out your own backyard and leave the rest of the world alone for a while.... Usanian efforts at fiscal/economic interference is bloody shitting me off...

[ancient kayaker]

Very impressive Mas. Starting to look like a boat. In some pictures that is: in other it's starting to look like an apartment building.

[Fanie]

Darn Ancient, I think you're right ! It IS a boat Mas is building !

My metal worker agent called me earlier today, the glass wet out machine is finally ready. If all goes well then I have a chance to get it 'some time', hopefully before the turn of the next century :(
At the rate my boat is going the next part may be done before the next melenium.

How long do you have to go still to finish the boat Mas ?

[masalai]

Ready for fit-out finishing touches around November, Launch before April 2010:D:D:D:D Jeeees Fanie, Things seem to happen still in saffa? I am still waiting for an engine delivery promised in early May as being 3 weeks away... (I fear it may be from another "May"?) - - - maybe... :D:D:D

[Fanie]

Eh Mas,
Darn mail notification is up to nuggets again. I'm getting notifications from threads I haven't even visited never mind responded to :D

Our meeting has been postponed to next week. You have to be patient, it's like the sign at the loo that said 'gents, stand closer, it's shorter than you think' :D Yeah right.

I finally got my wet out machine delivered today. I will get the rest of the materials by the morrow and hopefully finish it this weekend. I can't wait to get cracking with it.

So where's the pictures :D

[masalai]

Maybe something after Monday 27 Jul, as it is shelving and stairs and all that fiddly stuff that takes time to complete... Engine should be delivered to the people fitting the Delco generators then I should have 6000 watts at 62.8 volts at the batteries, to charge the 16 x Optima blue D34M, unless I can find a better option? - also seeking quotes for 2000 watts of PV panels wired to also charge the same battery bank or dump energy to the hot water system or RO watermaker or freezers...

Fanie, could you design a little thermal switch that I could use, with about 1.5m or "copper/constantine?" cable to hang inside the door of a front door freezer, with a couple of thumb wheels to adjust/set the turn on and turn off temperatures and also display digitally the temp in deg C... A power cord in (from the power point) and a power cord out (to plug connect to the power lead of the freezer)? - - Thence to reset the temperature range as a refrigerator... I have seen one and the efficiency is well worth while - particularly on a boat... Hopefully about the size of a cigarette 20's packet that could sit on top of the freezer/fridge... Might be a business opportunity for you? Globally whilst cruising and not fishing...

[masalai]

Some of the work taken this morning, before I went up the coast to visit Mum, and see that she was doing well... - - One set of stairs to stbd hull, - wet area and laundry stbd hull, - stbd aft berth from hull - and also bridge-deck, here you will notice that the bulkhead, (19mm balsa endgrain with 1000gsm of cloth each side), is canted forward so the built-in chain-plate is aligned to the top of the mast... The last shows the temperature controller on Bryans freezer - brings the temperature to about 4deg Celsius (instead of below zero in a normal freezer), - to make an excellent and very efficient and cost effective fridge out of a domestic freezer...

[JeroenW]

Nice progress, those stairs on the first picture. Is every step the same height? In the picture it is as if those on to the top are lower in height than the lower ones.

[marshmat]

Lookin' good, Mas :)

It shouldn't be too hard to come up with a cheap way of doing that thermostat for the freezer..... a thermocouple, a reference voltage, a comparator (and a means to keep it from switching back and forth really quickly when you get to the target temp.), and a 120 V relay, that's pretty much all there is to such a device.

I'm sure Mas knows this already, but in case anyone else is thinking of using a 120/240 V home freezer, you do need to make sure that the AC neutral and ground are not tied together inside the appliance (as they occasionally are for land-based appliances). Very unfortunate consequences may result, especially if you get stuck at the one dock with the reverse-polarity shorepower....

You're probably getting a bit sick of Duflex dust by now, Mas. How're you planning to finish off the interior when the glasswork is done- is it going to be white paint everywhere, or wood trim, or are you going to go all acid-trip-hippie on us and do it in flower power rainbows?

[masalai]

I am waiting for an email on some "proper looking flooring" as a veneer on ply, so the main bridgedeck floor will look pucker, ply panels on the face of the shelving will either be flow-coated or clear varnish - starting to get a bit anal about keeping weight down...

All exterior will be in "off white" - has a bit of yellow (not the original colour) 2part international marine stuff (bought of the rep yesterday)... The stairs are an optical illusion and were a bit difficult to configure, but work OK - - I hope:D:D:D

The magic box for the freezer/fridge is sorted, else Fanie will invent if he is in the mood? I do not have shore power services, as I aim to be totally independent - solar panels 2000w48v and 400w12v as well as 6000w 48v diesel (coconut oil) engined battery charger...

[Fanie]

Those steps were formed just righ. Keep in mind that after a couple your feet doesn't want to make equal size steps :rolleyes:

Mas my man, you have to be patient. Our meeting has been postponed for a week. You will however not be disappointed ;) I will inform you after this Friday how the anchor hangs.

As for the temp control, that is really easy. All you need is a DS18B20 (you can google it), interface with a micro and you have a digital controller. Slap an LCD display on it and you have a state of the art digital temperature controller that can measure temperature, supply voltage, give user alarms, and if you add a keypad and implement an item numbering system warn you when an item nears it's expiry date. Keep the boat fresh.

If you're serious about the temperature thing I can put you in contact with someone in .au who is very capable who can probably help you with that, unless you insist that I must do it of course.

[masalai]

At what price? for 2 of them - each plastic jiffy box - - with one little screwdriver accessed trimpot for "on" upper (warmer) temp and another for shut-off lower temp and a digital readout for temp in a small "jiffy-box" with (copper/constan? because it is slim and accurate and linea and shrink wrap over the twisted ends as the thermocouple), cable temp sensor and 240v cable in from power-point and one out socket to "freezer/fridge" power plug. - I can fit the plugs but fine soldering is not my go now... Thanks... PM or email me if you like...

[Fanie]

Hi Mas, I don't know what he is going to charge for it. I'll ask him if you are too shy :D

[masalai]

Hi Mas, I don't know what he is going to charge for it. I'll ask him if you are too shy :D

Either you or who? I know the technology is easy as, - I used something similar in data logging when I was working for CSIRO long - long ago.... to give me 0.25dec Celsius record of temperature at various depths in the soil...

[Fanie]

I asked him if he wants to. If he won't then I will. Should be sufficient to fund my own boat :D

Soil ? I thought it was for fridge. Are you into earth worms or boating :rolleyes:

[masalai]

Thanks Fanie, will follow up on your links - did not think of that :D:D:D

OK, now to upload some images of the current status of my work-in-progress...

[masalai]

The following, another of the steps, and although slightly different - because of the chamfer positioning, they work very well - no problems..., then the freezers to be installed (they can be controlled to work as a very efficient fridge)... Then the washing machine that draws 330 watts! followed by some images of "the boat outside" - to be launched on Monday evening AEST...

[Fanie]

I can see where the library goes with all that shelving :D

Keep them pics coming, it's progress.

Washing machine ? Awwww that's nothing ! Check mine out :D

It works like a bona fide pressure cooker. Couple of turns, let it soak a bit, another couple of turns, rinse and you're done.

Power consumption is less than a beer ;)

It is lightweight (for a washing machine) easy to operate and is small in size, yet works efficient.

[masalai]

hehehe, but mine has a spin dryer and a servant willing to do the work:D:D:D - Just costs a bit of gold - not through the nose:D:D (We are tooo advanced here - = stupid, - and those efficient machines are just not available anywhere????)

[Fanie]

My mother found it in some shop. It hasn't got a spin dry cycle though, that's done in the rigging, and pre-wash is dragging the rags behind the boat. Stay soft is shaking it vigorously when dry. :D

[RHP]

Mas, I've stayed out of this thread as I have no experience to pass on.

Its all mighty impressive, keep going mate though the fridges and washing machine are real (heavy) luxuries.... whats their tinny capacity?

Cheers
R

[Fanie]

Hi Rest Hin Peace :D

Masalai is going to moore the boat in the harbour and I bet it's never going to see the outside world.
Either that or get a very long power cord to support all those machines ;)

[rasorinc]

Mas, you've been hard at work while I was on a long vacation. Everything look very good and you are really moving along. Anxious to see many more pictures. Are you keeping track of your hours and if so how many to date?
Keep up the great work. Stan

[masalai]

RHP, 181 litres each, and they are quite light and one of the best rated I have seen anywhere (In Oz we have a "star rating" system for electrical appliances and these are 5 star of 6....) and the washing machine is quite light too... and is highly rated for water efficiency and low energy use with a 5kg dry capacity... Hours can be easily calculated 16 / day 5 day week and commencement date 23 April 2009 so far about 8 lay days due to inclement weather... Thanks all for the comments...

Fanie, has batteries 48v x 220Ah, 6000 watt genset, 2000 watt solar panels, RO watermaker, (Nav and ships electrics are on a separate 12 v system) and NO CONNECTION for shore power.... sails give about 120 sq m and engines deliver 96 kg thrust each, all I need is a guarantee to catch fish

[RHP]

Fanie, I hear you can get extendable hydraulic boat legs that drop down from a watertight locker in each hull so the boat can neatly sit on its bottom whilst in the marina. Why rock for gods sake when you dont have to? He could then run an underwater cable direct from the power station through a stern gland again so no one could see.

Phase 2 is potted plants and ruddy great big yellow and white striped sun awnings! :D :D

[RHP]

[QUOTE=masalai;290418]Fanie, has batteries 48v x 220Ah, 6000 watt genset, 2000 watt solar panels, RO watermaker, (Nav and ships electrics are on a separate 12 v system) and NO CONNECTION for shore power.... /QUOTE]

Any more electical appliances Mas (and that includes the plug in sex toys) and you'll have to go nuclear.

[masalai]

It is, but the technicalities are top secret... it runs on mispronounced words and muffed phrases like 'Nukular' and 'Aluuminim' and 'Gas' when they mean petroleum, not actual, natural, or any other form... :D:D:D so I need to get several recordings of the Shrubs speeches... I tried it out the other day and also worked quite well on lies - but not bullshit - strange how it could detect the difference....

I prefer the living 'toys' and just because I do not like bottled gas because of its explosive nature:D:D:D do not get mislead by the perceived penalty - all has been carefully assessed and evaluated....

[downunder]

Mas,

what type of propulsion system is 'School's Out' using. Electric or hydraulic.

Great progress and picture story.

[masalai]

Electric "Re-Power" 10kw I think... using 48vDC in Pulse width modulation - almost the same type of technology mine (Torqeedo) uses except I am 4400 watts peak for something like 96kg static thrust...

I just set up for a business to supply freezer controls so they become refrigerators without messing with the internal electrics, Sorry Yanks only 240Vac at the moment

Also computers using low power mini itx formfactor motherboards which may be sorted to run on 12V DC for boats - has all the desirable in/out & stuff - more later:D:D:D has more grunt than a "malley bull" version one has 1 terrabyte of HDD and 4Gig of ram Dvi or HDMI out Vga out 802.11b/g 4 sata 3.0Gbps ports, 10 USB2.0 RJ45 (10/100/1000) port, Nvidia GeForce 8200, DirectX 10 with shader AMD Phenom mobile cpu, slim line DVD burner... all contained in the size of a reem of A4 paper (which is about 11.25 x 8.25 x 2 inches)...

The next one will be in a similar sized box with the addition of - - - "the fastest onboard graphics - AMD® 780G and with the help of 128MB side-port memory, it further boosts up the graphics performance by another 15-19%... Featuring the hardware HD video decoder – Universal Video Decoder, and supporting Avivo™ HD natively, MINIX™ 780G-SP128MB are also ready for DirectX® 10 7.1+2 Channel High-Performance audio" (analogue-coax out, optical out, coax in)... both are being examined to see how they go....

[Manie B]

This is going to put a smile on your face for the next month

after a bitterly cold weekend the sun has finally come out and i suppose we can look forward to the new week and month with a little bit more entusiasm

i am sitting here planning my week ahead and having the early morning cup of cofffee, reading all the bits and pieces when i came across this island thing

my oh my, the sheer innocence and creativity of it all, he has even got his own "sun cooker" Jeez here we are all designing and building these big boats and he just grows it!

you must set the scene properly

1 cuppa coffee or tea
2 for those with dual monitors here is the background music
3 watch as many of the episodes as you wish (there are many)

the music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LANwIgpha7k

the show
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r23JDPI52M4&feature=PlayList&p=E99131B3264A0A42&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=31

enjoy :D

[masalai]

Nup, I would rather a coralline uplift... - - A rising island caused by tectonic plate movement... Far more stable and has "critical mass" sufficient to be readily self supporting for a sustainable lifestyle... My boat is the means of transport...

[Fanie]

Sorry for the retarded response Mas, RHP... I don't function well in arctic conditions. As Manie said, the sun is out and there is a little bit of sun. Any change was an improvement.

You guys get stars for appliances ? We used to get them in pre-school IF you behave. Wasn't one of my strong points though :D I'm sure I might have gotten one or two for consistency though.

[masalai]

Thanks Fanie, we are getting that cold weather now, but everybody turned to face north to fart and we blew the bad weather south :D:D:D:D

[Fanie]

I didn't know one can go more south from where you are.

[masalai]

Hey, I am North of Brisbane... hehehe - How many points did you loose to "the phantom" rep poster? - -

Well the build is progressing very nicely, shelving (hull stiffening:D) and putting epoxy coat on all surfaces, ready to close up as a void, or, flow-coat for shelves/cupboards, or, 2 part paint for the 'wet' areas (shower / toilet / laundry)... tapeing over the filleted joins (epoxy & 700gsm tape) - stuff that takes time and does not show up well photographically...

The Kubota722, was skillfully marinised and supplied by Stewart at (Sea Wasp) http://seawasp.com.au/projects.html is now at, http://www.wattagan.com.au/index.html?target=p_8.html&lang=en-us, Wattagan, where Phil is fitting the Delco alternators and controls, to deliver charging capacity to the 48V bank of batteries... The batteries have been moved forward of the mast in the same area as the genset... - - - - - That space, where there used to be 2 head-to-head double berths - smart way to reduce "overnighter guests" as it is NOT a hotel, - - will now house the genset, controllers for engine charging the batteries, 20 Optima D34M batteries, SEAP-48-3K8 inverter, RO watermaker, and some fuel and water tankage...

- - Short list on the batteries is the Optima D34M (20 units) - depending on pricing, - as with 2000W of solar panels on the 48V circuit and 400W on the 12 V circuit. http://www.ausolar.com/products.htm .. all this because the Torqeedo 4.0R from Claude http://www.torqeedoaustralia.com/Torqeedo_Australia/Home.html is my choice for powered drive...

[Fanie]

Hull stiffening... WOW ! Kinky bugger eh :D

So when you've stiffned it up some you are going to start stuffing it :D Maybe you should fill er up after she's in the water. What will you do if it's too heavy to transport it to the water ? Or is the downhill to the coast steep enough ? And how will you know if it will actually float with all those appliences.

[masalai]

By weighing everything before purchasing... Dragging from shed for final fit-out and mini-keels / rudders fitted... Place on the same trailer "Schools Out" used then sneak down the road a couple of hundred meters and wait for the tide to come in - as it usually does - all tooo easy, 'cept it is a Bob Oram design not a 'Snell Easy' one :D:D:D:D:D

It is always a case of building where launching does not create unnecessary problems (If you like to do things the hard way, try making love whilst balancing on the top wire of a barbed wire fence)

[Fanie]

try making love whilst balancing on the top wire of a barbed wire fence
This of course just depends how desperate you are. I'm sure it has been done before :D

I'm going to do a test run with the wet out machine this weekend. The first beam will be hand spun since I had to spend a little f fortune on security stuff instead of buying the drive and motor for it :( The amount of armed robberies here...

Some pics would be in order, don't let me catch you getting skimpy on the important things ;)

[Boston]

hey Mas
love the way you mounted the Torquidos
great set up
brilliantly done mate even keeps em out of the way of swimmers and such
best
B

[Manie B]

Beautifull stuff
i too would be like a kid in a candy store

Sea Wasp

Wattagan

Ausolar

very very cool

[masalai]

Errrr Boston, that is not my boat that is Bryan's 46ft "Schools Out", he as gone sailing - I am still building.... Torqeedo's are like little outboards without the engine on top and will be mounted in a similar place but tilt as an outboard does... - - up aft...

Thanks Manie, the crew are looking for another 'Oram Design' project - to commence when mine is launched April 2010...

[Frosty]

No No torquidos are rocket like bombs that submarines fire out of the front at ships N stuff.

You know they had them is the war.

[masalai]

hehehe, I think we are all a little bored and need some entertainment? Drivel 2?

[Fanie]

Bored ? No man, what you get where ? There's no time, a gazillion things to do.

Have you any more news yet ?

[Boston]

ah ha
I thought maybe you had suddenly made some serious progress
I still like the set up in Bryan's 46
I saw on the torquido web site that they flip up and down off the stern but thought maybe you had got creative with the mounting brackets
I thought that thing looked awfully done in a hurry

best
B

[masalai]

American quality control and support is feeling the pinch of the hard times, so most of that had to be hurriedly done at the last minute - The fairing front and rear of the motor was just heavy bog and the leg was two pipes (about 1.5? inch OD up from the motor)... BBQ on board this Saturday (at the club marina)

Mine is still having the shelving taped and the fascia cut and readied, - - and figuring where everything else has to be put according to weight - - - batteries (20 @ 19.8kg each), genset, RO water-maker, 4000W inverter, water tanks, fuel tanks, freezers (2) and that the washing machine can be carried down the stairs and into its position OK, that the 2 double bed innerspring mattresses will fit and can be carried in to place....

Some things take a little time to get done...

Because of the global economic uncertainty, Purchases that can be deferred, are, like the batteries, solar panels, Torqeedo motors and marine electronics... The genset had to be done as we needed to fit the mounts and consider weight distribution as well as installation of its plumbing, wiring, fuel tanks etc... The batteries may be a case of joining forces with another builder and do a bulk buy, solar panels will be just me as I know of no others requiring 12 or so 200 watt panels and the Torqeedo may be a 4 unit (2 boat) purchase... As with the ships navigation and other instruments, I am open to preparing a list and seeing what the market can offer nearer April 2010 launch date... Galley is just a matter of shopping around in the normal retail arena...

Other than this addendum, visually nothing exciting to show as the detail and fiddly bits will persist for some time yet... The Kubota has arrived at "Wattagan Innovations" (some 675Km "as the crow flies" - actually great circle route by helicopter? - from my boat build) for the attention of Phil Dorman to fit the Delcos'... - - I hope to visit John Hitch whilst he is in Mooloolabah, and learn about his rig... CYA on the water soon...

[masalai]

Did you know, this is the approximate site of the first gold mine in PNG?... Used to be the source of funding of a German Catholic mission pre 1914... Location lat: 2.771636 deg S, lon 151.993015 E in "decimal degrees" on Googleearth....

[masalai]

Well, today I met a legend... John Hitch, and was shown around "XIT" pronounced 'exit'... the boat will comfortably head 35 degrees into the apparent wind, which is difficult to do as she is so fast.... (I was shown a brag shot of XIT doing 23.99knots).... that she generates significant headwind even on a true wind beam reach....

We had a chat about his sail plan and how it worked (both main genoas work on every point EXCEPT 90 deg apparent - so to fix it pull up a little and the apparent wind shifts further forward as speed picks up :D:D:D) wind over 13knots, start reefing windward, then leeward, leaving the little "blade/storm-sail".... Never sail downwind head off about 30 degrees and go a lot faster in vmg downwind... - I think I have that bit down OK.... seems like a very easy rig to manage, and very effective and very simple.... Just what I want...

John's boat is nice, yes?... about 52 ft loa, 32 ft beam, hulls are 2 ft wide....

[masalai]

Here is what the boat looks like now, some paint, some epoxy to seal the void areas, lots of effort, not much to see...

[masalai]

For those following the "ills" that befal as a consequence of my getting a little too close to epoxy, here are some cut and paste comments on it and other options...

Boston on what may also be known as Fullers' ... Resorcinal is an formaldehyde base glue and was definitely found to cause health problems in both prolonged exposure to out gassing and in short term exposure through direct contact and to glue vapors during cure there are a few simple precautions you can take to avoid those issues epoxy has less health issues
but still has some pretty interesting components... Bisphenol-A is an major component to epoxy and is none to kindly on the old endocrine system but once again I've found a few precautions that seem to negate the majority of the health issues...

kengrome... (Quote: -) I'll likely do the repair with resorcinol anyhow, as the location actually makes it pretty easy to put a bottle-jack under it to apply pressure and hold everything in place. (end Quote)
If all your pieces are not fitted to very close tolerances your solution is not going to be good enough. Epoxy is 'gap-filling' which means it works even when there are small or large gaps in between the two pieces being glued. Resorcinol *requires* sub-millimeter fitting of the pieces in order to glue them together reliably, and if you don't make your pieces fit that closely resorcinol will be inferior to epoxy.
Usually only the best craftsmen use resorcinol because they are the only folks capable of making two parts fit together with such close tolerances. I'm not suggesting that you cannot do this, but if you've never worked with resorcinol before you're probably going to have problems with it. It is not a glue for people who build to less than near perfect tolerances, and most people don't come anywhere close to this kind of joinery ... which is why epoxy is so much more appropriate for so many people.

Boston... if I might add another two cents I think Kengrome is talking gospel here friend
please take this as a kindly word but how many years building does that broker have under him its going to be lots or none at all...
'Course that bottle jack just might introduce you to Newtons third law which would play a lot easier if you were dancing with epoxy ...

Aethelwulffe... I believe the question is "are resorcinol laminated planks appropriate". The answer is a resounding yes. I love resorcinol. As a Urea-formaldehyde glue, you should not breathe the powder when mixing it (respirator). Post-cure, it is safe. Resorcinol is said to have been invented in WW2, and first used in the Dehavailland Mosquito bomber, but other sources show that it has been around for a very very long time. Whatever way, it is wonderful stuff.

[Frosty]

Do you mean epoxy has made carpenters into brick layers mass.

Bit o carpet on top or a bit of formica if you want posh.

I saw a boat in Aus once at a yard for sale near sydney.

It was white paint with formica and white painted drawers. I went back to tell they dealer that it is not what I was looking for.

He looked me up and down,-- and in an Aus accent said " Oh yeah mate --its a mans boat"

A boat needs to do many things, but 99% of its time it is in a marina.

[masalai]

Well I know of 2 "house carpenters" who are building boats... I don't know about brick layers?

The epoxy component Bisphenol-A, is what must have screwed my pancreas (which produces insulin & glucagon)...

The Resorcinal glue component, formaldehyde makes me fart prolifically and is more devastating than any nerve gas to come out of the laboratories of the USA germ warfare division.... (chemical processes are patented)....

[Frosty]

I love the smell of epoxy, and i wished dearly it made me fart. I would take good sniff of it before departing on a long flight.

I like sitting by the window you see and i like being on my own

My mate used to fart horrible after a burger king so when he went to florida to buy propellers he would fart at people if they would'nt talk to him.

Sometime I can get the gas alarm to go off.

Pssst dont tell any one this is so embarrassing.

[Boston]

hey Mas interesting read
umm ya
epoxy definetly has some interesting side effects
I think a fellow named Jimbo might if he is feeling so inclined tell of the other components than Bisphenol-A
he did mention em in an earlier conversation in reference to BP-A being the least of your worries
in regards to formaldehyde glues and out gassing
try checking into the Fema trailers that had to be abandoned after Katrina down south
they used formaldehyde glue
and the formalin gasses caused permanent nerve damage to some folks with hypersensitivity
and some without

in regards to alternatives
Im investigating the extent that certain glues creep under stress
esentially epoxy vs tight bond 3
my preliminary findings are that epoxy will creep
but less than the T-3
depends on the accuracy of the joint
for my build Im thinking laminated frames, keel and double diagonal planking

still looking for glue alternatives to epoxy or res
not sure Im going to find one
but looking

Ill be using epoxy if I cant find a suitable alternative
cheers
B

and best to you Mas
keep clear of the shop when they are mixing mate
want you to be able to enjoy years at sea
you earned em

cheers to that
B

[masalai]

When you mix your epoxy, add an equal volume of those micro-spheres they fill it out and make it easy to fill the joins and fillet out the join... Some say the hulls, like I am building, have quite a bit of flexibility so the stresses are capable of being spread rather than concentrated at a pinpoint as some of the "hard glues" may do, so helping to make a stronger boat if the engineering takes this into account and utilises that property to advantage... Get one of those high quality face-masks with carbon filters, and wear it (bloody hot, but better that than the other consequences)....

The Oram designs seem to be able to take a great deal of punishment with very little adverse damage.... I am confident in the robustness of my build, and Bob Oram's design... All joins are also strengthened with 750gsm tape on both sides... Key bulkheads significantly more than that, using several processes, in order to spread the load and increase the load bearing capacity... for example each of my chain-plates are built in and designed, so I am told, for well in excess of 12000kg loads (not quite 3 times the cruise ready weight of the boat...)

[boat fan]

Your`e doing a great job Mas !!!! :cool:

[boat fan]

When you mix your epoxy, add an equal volume of those micro-spheres they fill it out and make it easy to fill the joins and fillet out the join... Some say the hulls, like I am building, have quite a bit of flexibility so the stresses are capable of being spread rather than concentrated at a pinpoint as some of the "hard glues" may do, so helping to make a stronger boat if the engineering takes this into account and utilises that property to advantage... Get one of those high quality face-masks with carbon filters, and wear it (bloody hot, but better that than the other consequences)....

The Oram designs seem to be able to take a great deal of punishment with very little adverse damage.... I am confident in the robustness of my build, and Bob Oram's design... All joins are also strengthened with 750gsm tape on both sides... Key bulkheads significantly more than that, using several processes, in order to spread the load and increase the load bearing capacity... for example each of my chain-plates are built in and designed, so I am told, for well in excess of 12000kg loads (not quite 3 times the cruise ready weight of the boat...)


Designers and builders have come a long way Mas...That boat of yours is
virtually a monocoque load bearing / spreading shell.Very strong and light.
Most impressive.

Best regards...:cool: BF

[Fanie]

Keep going Mas, it looks better and better !!

[masalai]

One picture of the set of steps looking down, and one of grandson in where the toilet will be... Also I went and got the plan view and profile view blown up to 1:10 so the sheets are 1.65m x 0.95m and pinned on the office wall... One of the plan views will be stuck onto some plywood and have the rigging set up so I/we can work on sheet and rigging layout....

[masalai]

No extra stuff done, but here are some images... taken after I swept the floor this morning (18-Aug-09) to those still on yesterday:D:D:D

[masalai]

Well I got the "layout" view blown up to 1:10 scale, stuck it onto some plywood, and will now play with standing rigging (mast positioning) and where the sails and sheets need to run, and how to organise that... possibly testing times there.... Bob Oram may be coming by tomorrow so we will see what we will see..... Genset should be up this way next week or so, then the decks, "coach-house" assembled, followed by setting up the rigging / mast / winches hatches / tempered glass windows (non-opening) and all that stuff as well as the electronics and electrics (money spending time) which, for a kanjuice marawadi, (apologies to Indians for any misspelt words), is not happiness central.... Last stuff fitted will be sails, batteries, solar panels and electric motors ...

[masalai]

Well, a bit rough, but served the purpose, to visualise the basic rigging sail and sheet layout...

I did not attach inner & lower shrouds, nor consider representing the diamond and tensioning, as I am no rigger... I just wanted to visualise the basics...

The inner for-stay may go up nearer the masthead, but where is, will be about 6.3 sq metres

The genoa on the port side is represented by a bit of string attached to the for-stay about 1 meter up the fore-stay and will be about 37.5 sq metres on each side so all up, some 81.3 sq metres of sail area for a 4.5 tonne boat on a stick around 12.3m long... the sheets for that genoa are draped approximately where they will sit close hauled...

That is my feeling, Now to see what Bob has to say about "my playing".... and if his skills can make the engineering work?

[masalai]

What have I done today? - watched pva glue dry as I build the coach-house on the above pictured layout "model"....I need to determine the sheet block location for the windward genoa (it will be on the roof of the coach-house and sharing space with the solar panels and where the block is, will have to be "reinforced and otherwise engineered" to take the loads.... They are keeping me "occupied and out of the way", which is good as it gives me tangible involvement....

I think I need some 'tenth scale bricks', to use as gravity clamps, to hold things whilst the glue dries:D:D:D:D

I have stiffened up the hulls with pine battons 10mm x 40mm cut to length and one across the aft section, and see the need to add one across at the mast and also another further forward... - - just screwed in to place... Makes a good "tea-chest base"... 'cept I am a lousy musician - no rhythm & tone deaf... :P:P but I sing lustily, out of key and out of tune hehehe....

The boys have been busy finishing bits and pieces, and looks like I may have to do a run to Whitworths, up at Mooloolaba (Sunshine Coast) to get some doors for the shelving in the shower and laundry areas some 12 of them, smaller than the cavities which are 24 x 64 cm - - - that seems like MONEY, in exchange for little plastic cupboard doors on frames to be glued in place (epoxy?)...

[Scrumble]

Quote (.....and looks like I may have to do a run to Whitworths, up at Mooloolaba (Sunshine Coast) to get some doors for the shelving in the shower and laundry areas some 12 of them, smaller than the cavities which are 24 x 64 cm) Unquote.

....and your team were doing so well with the weight, pity to have cover storage.

Thanks for keeping us up to date with all the photos.

Regards, Tom

[masalai]

Hi Tom, that is just to keep the water out of shelves / cupboards, whilst showering... all light plastic things with easy latches... I only got 6 for the shower area (page 117 cat #42136

[Scrumble]

Did you get all 12? I envy you, I would be lucky to see a small image on a web site and then get told that they can only send three of a different size or that they don't delivery to areas north or west of Kingaroy or question me as to whether we had sea in Darwin or charge 75% freight.

all the best, Tom

[masalai]

I only got 6... I phoned and there was 8 in Albion and 7 in Mooloolaba of that smaller size and 2 and 1 of the larger size which I did not get but could have had delivered early next week, but the starboard side will be the laundry so no need to worry about regular shower spray:D:D:D.... - just epoxy coat then flow coat that side shelves...

[Fanie]

Occupied right now, but will come back later and give you grief on whatever you did wrong... or right :D

[masalai]

Why Fanie, Are you having "grief" with your wetting out machine? or that other device that your friends "killed" by running over it?.... Philamon has been busy....

I went to Bunnings to buy some plumbing fittings (mixer and shower, and mixer combo for galley sink & hand-basin) and some more balsa for my layout model...

The internals are being epoxied then flow-coated and cupboard doors fitted to shower stall and all that stuff that looks not much different from a week ago... So have some patience and be warned I too have some time to retaliate so post pictures of what you have done, as nothing seems to have happened for a couple of weeks???? on other projects....

[Frosty]

Fanni --Im worried about you. In another thread you said to had hardly the room to build and armed robbers roamed the neighborhood?

You said they would steal anything. Why do you do it there then. Why don't you move to another country and live a peaceful life with cheap beer and you can lock up and go home. I could'nt do that,-- what you are doing.

All countries are shit, its just that some are less shit.

[Fanie]

Cannot sleep, I'm coughing like Frosty's Yanmar :D I'm going sailing to test the boom in a few hours.

That 'other thing ' I will let you know about in a while. It is not so easy and not such a small undertaking.

I have to work after hours or on weekends, but cannot currently. Tbh, I'm scared of another armed robbery, they are active in our area again and I don't know how I will react... Small light of hope though, the police can now aparently shoot to kill and will be protected by law, we can only hope it is not going to be abused again.

I am putting together a 3 phase drive, motor and gearbox to work with the wetout machine. Everything is built from scratch and takes time. Any bugger ups have to be re-done. I'm also the poor working class so I have to save up before I can do anything...

Sorry, all off topic on your thread. As long as you progress it is great. Who knows, I may still visit you and get the thing to float.

Keep them pics coming, I'm collecting them, you don't have to retaliate pics, they don't care :D

[Fanie]

Sorry Frosty I missed your post... good timing. I am considering your suggestion more and more serious every day.

[Frosty]

Sorry Frosty I missed your post... good timing. I am considering your suggestion more and more serious every day.

Ok,-- well just mind you do it before your dead.

[masalai]

Fanie, I am sure we could find something for you to do and somewhere for you to stay if you "arrived on a doorstep", It is just dealing with those bureaucrats, that is the problem everywhere...

[johngilpin]

:confused: Hi All

How does one calculate the horsepower requied for a vessel.
More specifically a 16' Dory.

Kind Regards

John

[masalai]

johngilpin, Not really on this thread as it is a record of my build, look around for an appropriate forum then create a thread for yourself there... A clear picture, some dimensions and its weight would help, as well as what speed you were looking to achieve or really, to what purpose were you going to put your 16 ft ALUMINIUM? dory...

Good luck...

[masalai]

Hi JohnGilpin,
Thanks for the PM, I thought I would respond here as there seem quite a few "newbies" who may also appreciate a little help... At the Boat Design Forum (home page, almost) is a list of all major forums, and in many you may find some sub categories, so, lets say this forum <Boatbuilding> to get there just click on that word above in "hyper-link blue"... There you will see a list of threads, above that list of threads between the two "menu bars" you will see a little button that says <New Thread> - click that button, then continue creating your very own thread... In the opening text, define the purpose of the thread - call it like "JG dory build learning process" or whatever suits your mood/purpose... Multiple spaces get reduced to 1, repeats of the same character/smiles are restricted in number sometimes... Images are restricted to 2MB and 5 per post and an enforced delay to add more to the next post except in your personal "Gallery", videos are less than 10MB... (2 shots in HD - 1920 x 1080 movie :D:D:D)... Enjoy and have fun...

[masalai]

Who now (on reading this), would now dare to say economics is dull and of no value... Well this is the best report on battery technology I have read yet... Hope all you good folk out there feel it was valid and interesting information from my piles of economic news emails... http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=219400089 give the page a chance to load, sometimes it is a bit slow...??? Do not forget this link, http://www.greensupplyline.com/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=J3T0F2B5RIRHZQE1GHPCKHWATMY32JVN?articleID=217500647&queryText=Volt , (at the end of the "eetimes" original link on LiFePO4 batteries) will they be sufficiently reliable and cost effective by March/April 2010? when I am looking for my batteries.... and what of the charge/battery condition monitoring technology and all the problems currently being discussed elsewhere on boatdesign.net.....

[downunder]

One plus for fixed keels on a cat for cruising is the increased displacement
For instance Grainger quotes 680kg for fixed keels on a barefoot 45.

My observations for a long distance crusing vessel is that almost all are restricted in range and running to the next port for fuel and or supplies.

mmm half bottle wine/day for 4 persons for 3 months adds up - 2 bottles
x 60days - perhaps casks will be lighter -- :?: :?: :confused: :confused:

Seems to me if one is travelling in PNG, Pacific or top of WA where fuel may be hard to come by and quality doggy is best to carry more fuel than most do and be independent. In the areas I plan to be at times wind may be lacking and it is useful to have plenty of fuel to spare.

Long distance crusing vessels need to carry a fair payload and in particular adequate anchoring gear - all chain - remembering more vessels are lost through inadequate ground tackle than any other cause. A major issue for me will be dive compressor and equipt - adds weight and need for good displacement.

Would be interested in why you and bob Oram have gone for balsa rather than foam core. I note from Grainger foam core provides lighter construction. For example

Upper hull side balsa -141.37kg foam 106.65kg
cabin side balsa - 34.9kg foam 24.5kg

At present I have short listed the following designs but have plenty of time to observe.

Freeflow44; Grainger Barefoot 45 and Oram 44C. Time will tell. All are modern flat panel construction.

Mas observing your build and the speed of it is enlightening. With your permission i would like to drop by for a look early Janurary when i am in brisbane
Regards,
\
John:?:

[masalai]

downunder, welcome to the net, Balsa has the qualities I need and for my purposes is the better choice, ATL is very good at looking after its customers, have a long look around and see what you can find here http://www.atlcomposites.com.au/atl_composites/ and have a chat with your designer for their view. I personally would be reluctant to use foam core - it may be a valid and worthy product, but does not satisfy me... There are four 44's designed by Bob Oram in the vicinity (including the Sunshine Coast - other side of Buderim)... PM me with some personal contact info and your schedule nearer to when you are ready...

[masalai]

Well I guess, since there are no dramatic photographs to post as all the work currently is detailing stuff, shelving, making small items, preparing for through hull fittings and what goes where - no pretty pictures.....

I thought some discussion (pontification as many may suggest) on selecting a design...

Catamarans are adversely effected by weight and if you are so stupid that you overload a cat design, then you are looking for a disaster, and the designer will not be pleased to see his hard work and reputation besmirched by a 'hoarder' who puts 4 tons in a boat designed to carry 1 ton... If you need to carry a lot of stuff get a heavy steel mono....

Think carefully of your cruising ground and the land based facilities that you will regularly use.... - - will your "dream boat" fit in the marina berths? - - will you avoid marinas except for provisioning and fuel? - - do you plan to make some long passages - - do you like to anchor up every night? - - Look at google earth and identify where provisions and other services may be available (where there is a coastal town is a start)... - - Do you need to sail, - or is, by motor the preferred option?, long range motoring seems to average 8 to 15 knots, so why engine for 20 or so?, sail is far more gentle and variable, being reliant on wind & weather, motoring only to enter a secure mooring site up a creek or in a marina... As a rule of thumb ?????? - sitting somewhere, is where you are for 80% of the days... Up a creek hiding from a severe storm etc for some time... being "trapped" in the doldrums sometimes?... Enjoying some fantastic sailing weather - all too brief and something to remember:D:D:D Exploring ashore or visiting new found friends:D:D:D Socialising aboard:D:D:D makes up most of the rest....

For cruising in a cat, many stops will be in sandy areas, ensure you have an appropriate anchor... Feel free to add your thoughts so long as the response is generally applicable anywhere

These and many other factors that influence the size and style of your boat.... Cannot afford one that big? - - Oops reality cuts in... remember, a boat is a compromise..........

[masalai]

For why, I don't know, but here are some images of what has been done lately - - sealed lower aft void P & S, - revised aft bulkhead (full width), - part of the storage, port midships will be "framed" with beading, - Shower stall & hand-basin bench being fitted, - panel to receive shower stall cupboard doors...

[masalai]

Starboard shelving/cupboards awaiting painting & trim, - bases for aft P & S berths being fitted with hatches to access the "hold" below, - forming for the leading face of the bridgedeck, - Lastly, "rough as guts" (now you know why I have a build crew) but it shows the approximate layout for the rigging and representation of sails/sheets - for those with a vivid imagination... anyhow, I can now visualise some things that need to be resolved?....

[Fanie]

Well I guess, since there are no dramatic photographs to post as all the work currently is detailing stuff,
That is where the most work is. Do put them pics up too, because that is where it makes the biggest difference !

[Scrumble]

Yes please Mas, I agree with Fanie keep up the photos of little detail bits. The interior is looking very interesting with great work.

Also your little model is an excellent way to show the rig. Will you be using the standard chain-plates the team have built? Am I correct with what I see on your model, that you will have two back stays going to a point on the end of the back beam?

Regards, Tom

[masalai]

Bob visited and wants the aft chainplates further forward, (at the aft bulkhead for the aft berth), than where I marked about 2 feet further aft, bugger, now to re-figure where the sheets will go and possibly with smaller genoas' but only 7 degrees tilt on the mast - I put 11 Degrees - so straighten it up a bit and mast height and diamonds are an unknown as yet...

OK I will discuss with the crew where we should show some good filleting (could do a shot at the local fish shop:D:D), and some macro type shots around the place so you perfectionists can criticise it to shreds....

ATL is delivering some new hardner to better match the cure time to the warming weather, - (Global warming here with hottest early spring temperatures in 30 odd years)... and some more DuFLEX panels for the deck and coach-house roof.... Good service and good product from ATL...

[Fanie]

aft chainplates further forward, (at the aft bulkhead for the aft berth)
Chain plates ! So that's how you keep your woman from running off :D

OK I will discuss with the crew where
OK, what happened to the crew Manie promissed... seems there really are a LOT of compromises on a boat eh ;)

[masalai]

Never showed up, heard about the chainplates:D:D:D seemed to dislike a bit of "bondage"...... the chain is only pure gold...

[Scrumble]

Thanks Mas, Its a great rig, I look forward to more info/photos and/or XIT's rig too.

Love the idea of all furled sails. Are you considering Dyneema SK75 or similar instead of wire for the standing rig?

BTW thanks for the info on the little hatches, we will go to Whitworths online.

Regards, Tom

[masalai]

I would like to Tom, but I am told too much stretch and does not like the "rubbing" or something of the "casing" of the reefing system???? There is a lot of refinement and development that could be considered and unless someone buys this boat at a good and fair price, this is my final boat, as more money is needed, than I have available, to think of another:D:D:D

[masalai]

A bit time-consuming to get a nice curve like this (1), but worth the effort, - even from the inside (2), and then some edge detail (3) - - silly camera does not like focusing where there is depth of field, but, detail of the hatch to the hold below the aft berth (4), (some filleting work looked a blur but the normal surface was in focus? and the inside of one of the "cupboards" can be seen but flash effect and white flow-coat rendered it not worthwhile posting. - detail on the supports for the berth after the temporary screws were removed and final epoxy to be applied to seal the holes/joins (5)..

[masalai]

The next image is of the chainplate, complete with temporarily resident spider (web to be seen) (1), the "hold under the aft berth (2), finger hole to facilitate lifting the under-berth holds' hatch (3), positioning the forward beam for positioning and tapeing into place (4), whenever surplus epoxy mix, these were made (for use in the base of the aft berths) (5)...

[masalai]

Tom, I just put about 9 images of the John Hitch "X-IT" in my gallery - enjoy...

[Landlubber]

Mas, There is a Hitch boat at the Brisbane Boatanic Gardens if you want to see another rig, I was working a boat there last week, it has been there for a while.

[masalai]

Thanks for spotting, but I have had an interesting chat with John Hitch, at Mooloolaba, who answered most of my questions, The "hitch-hiker" is the rig that I am using no main a blade/self tacking storm sail midships forward, and to each bow from the masthead, 2 large genoas, all on roller reefing / furling... Just sorting out the sheets and stays, (where they go without interfering with each other), is giving a bit of concern...

[Fanie]

Eh Mas, it's beginning to look really good.

One Q please, the thing with the hole in it, can't figger this one out. It's either a basin or a head or a foot spa or all of the above :D

[masalai]

The hand basin cut-out "... Shower stall & hand-basin bench being fitted ..." - - I was given a melamine bowl with blue coloured patterns inside and the hole is for it....

[Fanie]

Cheeesss... losing your sense of humour there eh. You were not supposed to give the correct answer :D

If my things work out it is going to be really nice to watch the launch. You better organise a film crew for the event. Imo it is the nicest kick under the butt thrill when she slips onto the water that first time. Man oh man :cool:

Are you sure this pile of firewood of your's is going to float ?

[masalai]

I havn't finished, I was reading your joke to LL and having another good laugh, - one must do as one is told by a "senior authority - she who must be obeyed - Yes Dear".... So to continue, it is a carefully devised device which will only be explained as construction nears completion... It relates to research similar to this... http://www.theaureport.com/pub/na/2994?utm_source=streamsend&utm_medium=email&utm_content=5896541&utm_campaign=The%20Gold%20Report%20│%20John%20Licata%20Still%20Eyeing%20%241%2C200%20Gold%20in%202009

[Fanie]

Ah !!! I get it. You are going to generate your own methane gas that can be used for cooking, that will produce more methane gas for more cooking and that will produce even more methane gas for even more cooking and so on.

So it's a restaurant you're starting :D and no guest leaves before contributing to the methane process... I can see it is going to boil with activity :D

Ok, so you're going back to the steam engine also... ? Human powered so to speak :rolleyes:

[masalai]

Oh dear, I have told you twice now, I will use another term "cold fusion", with a palladium catalytic cathode and electrolyte containing heavy water or deuterium... And I thought you were the technical/scientific one, and that that is what you were working on too?

4+ hours later... 16:52 local time, Sorry Fanie, I forgot to answer one of your questions, Being made of one of the lighter woods, totally sealed in 'glass'-tape/cloth/epoxy, it should float... even if someone tries to fill it with water after turning off the bilge pumps, disabling the security alarms, disconnects the batteries, and feeds the pet, (shark), he is always hungry...:D:D:D:D Boston is the steam enthusiast and the thought of methane and restaurant together (not a good mix):D:D - - - I thought of another application for the "hole thing" - so that Sean will feel comfortable when he visits (look at his avatar)... Hi Sean:D:D:D

More DuFLEX being delivered tomorrow or Friday so hopefully something to photograph and post on the weekend...

18:11 - 3 Sep 09 - - Surprise.... 5 more then another 5 hehehe... (1) looking aft to aft stbd berth, (2) battery - RO watermaker - inverter and battery charge controllers etc, (3) Stbd looking fwd to laundry, (4) over engine room - Hot water system etc. - to forward sections for chain/anchor lockers and "dorado" air pumps for engine and battery rooms, (5) down to port midships area...

[masalai]

Aft berth port, Stern view port, the sump and raised shower floor, looking forward from aft port berth, steps to aft port berth looking from shower area...

[Fanie]

I'm soooo jealous. If you are going to make a trip to 'run it in', how about to here so I can also have a spin in it .... ??

I'll give you points for it :D

[masalai]

How about some pure gold and you can have it after returning me home - say - , 11 KG ?

[Fanie]

Comma one one Kg ? Taken :P

Tomorrow and this weekend is a very very important time for me. Cross your fingers and toes.

[masalai]

and other things are crossed too, good luck?

Just for Sean, your luck is in as I fortuitously took pictures of my engine room (waiting for the engine (genset)) - the boxes contain plumbing components... and... the "fuel farm" where the fuel will have space and time to replicate and 20 drums for it to do it in :D:D:D A false bottom, tiedown points and 9 there (stbd) and another 9 to port and some wherever.... The kubota 722cc 3 cyl diesel with 2 delco alternators to give a peak of 6000 watts to charge the 48V battery bank... The engine will be able to burn coconut oil instead of 'diesel' fuel and the exhaust will smell sweeter...

[Fanie]

At least the coconut oil will have a nice tropical smell

[masalai]

More images... and this is the 4th attempt (telstra/bigpond persists in falling over - seems a stronger backbone is necessary)... - - (1) Bridgedeck shaping is looking smart and (2) sexily curved, - the (4) forward beam and (3) positioning & chainplates are being organised...

[masalai]

(1) Raised floor for toilet area to be inserted, (2) hand basin in shower area, (3) one of the 6 cupboards that will have waterproof doors - shower area, (4) Rule pump in the sump for the shower area...

[masalai]

Well the forebeam is close to being taped into place (first 3 shots, then where the holding tanks will sit, after the slightly sloping floor is fitted...

[judy]

The 39C is certainly a nice looking boat. I really like the lines and curves in the first two of the last four photos.

Re the forebeam bulkhead, is that an extra piece of 13mm Duflex in front of it, and does it go all the way down to the keel? Presumably it is being strengthened for the forestay/headsail furler...?

[masalai]

Hi Judy, as per standard specifications and yes - I think it is similar to the 44C?... There will be 2 genoas (one from each bow and a blade of about 9sq M midships from just aft of the net area totalling about 80 sq M) about the size of a standard, but on a 12m stick - - I do NOT have a "main sail" aft of the mast and no boom... 5 masthead stays and one set of diamonds is all that is required for the standing rigging... All sails are roller-furled and reefed... In fully laden ready to cruise I hope to be underweight (less than 4862kg)...

[masalai]

A SPECIAL for Boston and Sean 2 steam engines being overhauled - sheer engineering beauty

[masalai]

The last image - I am still working out where the sheets and other stuff will go - rough but effective....

[masalai]

Five images for today are raised floor in P & S aft berths forward cargo hold (to carry the 9 x 25litre containers of either RO derived potable water, or cold pressed coconut oil, the aft cargo holds will remain empty for the present plans... Then there is the forward chain plate construction for the forward stays and roller furled/reefed genoa... Lastly, the curved forward section of the bridge-deck is in position, glued filleted and taped in place...

[Boston]

A SPECIAL for Boston and Sean 2 steam engines being overhauled - sheer engineering beauty

Dam that is a site
I cant wait to get my engines and boilers
that and secure the shop space

thanks for the pict
looks great
I wonder what the specs on those are

and that shot of the reversing lever is perfect
most folks dont realize how versatile a steam engine is
that you dont need a trany and that they run so slow, you can get a hundred years of life out of em
they have huge benefits, are about as efficient as a basic diesel, require almost no maintenance in the closed system steam type
Im be suprised if as diesel goes through the roof again if they dont come back with a vengeance

thanks again
B

oh
Im going with a v configuration rather than a vertical
keeps the center of gravity low

[masalai]

http://currentsunshine.com/?cat=2 is using a single Torqeedo electric outboard, I plan for 2, and I am waiting for trials and test runs from Schools Out & another 44C due for launch in April 2010.... Lots of us going electric/PV=solar with diesel genset backup...

http://www.torqeedoaustralia.com/Torqeedo_Australia/Blog/Blog.html for more info...

[masalai]

No further data - I went to the shop to get some stainless tube to take the clevis pin (attaching the rigging screw to the chainplate) on my composite chainplates... They had the tube (16mm ID which I bought) and I just drooled on sighting the engines - one used lots of cast sections and the other was manufactured out of flat bar and stuff (I preferred the made one as it seemed to have far more heart put into it than the other using more cast parts)...

[Boston]

http://members.pioneer.net/~carlich/RSE/RSEengines-v4compound.jpg

the ones I chose arent nearly as pretty but are dam efficient and use mostly off the rack auto parts in the internal rotating assembly

my 57 flat top would use 4 of these 125 hp single acting compound steam engines
I could get away with 2 but I hate the idea of a owning a gutless wonder
so I want it to be able to get up and run from a squall if needs be
they are reversible 0 to 1500 rpm
I should be able to do about 10 knots at 40 hp but want to hit 16~20 in a pinch
these engines are really compact 21x24x14 and light at 250lb each
course you have to count the boilers as well at 350 lbs each dry and I need four of em as well


your torquido idea is dam enticing
I was thinking I would incorporate them into the system for docking maneuvers and emergency power
that boat you showed a picture of with the flip down system was really impressive
I hate the idea of chopping holes in my hull for bow thrusters
course I hate the idea of chopping holes in the hull for anything

your build is coming along great Mas
way to go
dam inspirational

thanks for all the pictures
B

[masalai]

Boston, Your choice, but I cannot see 'four engines and 16 ~ 20 knots' as being comfortable/viable if the nasty weather gets up, - far more to the point, knowing she is well built and can do a comfortable 10 ~ 15 knots safely and with minimum fuss and no unnecessary pounding or bouncing from wave top to wave top? just my 2 cents:D:D:D

Start a thread on your build, after all, you have some of the timber ageing and you are doing some of the milling? - "this woodsman is building slowly with love and passion" - seems like a good title?

[Boston]

I need a lot more timber before I can say I have actually started
Im just kinda goofing around with bits and pieces
I never did settle on an actual hull design

we basically have opposite design parameters
if the weather gets ugly in a cat your going to want to avoid pounding and sacrifice speed
in a semi displacement hull like a down east design Im going to be able to run from ugly at full tilt
( hell its what I do on land sometimes )
there may also be the occasion where Im trying to get in somewhere before nightfall

a redundant system of hopper feeds and boilers seems safest and by having more hp than needed I keep a lot in reserve just in case
also these engines have almost no maintenance issues
ttl my power plant weighs in at about a 2400lb dry were a comparable diesel weighs in at about 3500 lbs dry
more than half a ton more and far less torque
its also a lot taller
my weight distribution is lower in the vessel but has a slightly larger footprint and thats assuming one large diesel
two smaller ones would exceed the footprint of my four plus boilers

Im always open to suggestion but given the amount of time and consideration Ive got into it Ild think that redundant systems are better than not

only thing spooks me about boilers is lighting a fire in the bottom of a $250,000 pile of lumber

enough about me on your build page though
when Im ready to post my progress on things like skylights and windows Ill post it in a new thread
untill then
Ill just read along and keep learning about hull design

best o luck with your build
B

[masalai]

My sistership has recorded around 20knots (with a large version of the standard rig) from the grapevine, In ideal conditions I may get near that and at about 4862KG will rely more on prudence and waiting for a suitable weather window. 800mm draft will let me hide securely up many mangrove sided creeks if the need arises (mangroves make fairly good anchorage points) to tie off to...

The fire thing is one of the reasons I have only diesel for the genset and all else is electric (240VAC via inverter from the 48VDC batteries for the galley, 48VDC for propulsion and 12VDC for the ships services & nav)

The DuFLEX system seems far more robust than I had thought possible in any form of composite build. Boat feels good and (for me) looks good.... I still like your style of boat just that this suits my current needs:D:D:D

[Boston]

your multi hull is always going to be faster than my mono with less energy
I can see you now drink in hand sailing along with a few bikini clad beauties
or better yet unclad
but the maintenance of sails and rigging both standing and running is huge
your paying for speed one way or another
me with fire
you with rigging

Im all for you and your a dam great inspiration to get my ass in gear but Ill go with btu's in pellets at a third the cost of diesel at $225 a ton and $3 a gallon respectively ( and that disparity is only going up )
eventually diesel boats will be paying $5000+ for a fill up of a 1000 gallon tank and Ill be off the dock at a tenth of that for the same btu's
$225 is retail an if I buy a few tons at a time I get whole sale price or about 40% off

the fire thing is a sticky point and always has been
boiler explosions dont exactly impress me either but I wont have time to worry about it if anything really goes wrong

at 800 mm your sitting at about 32 inches draft
Im aiming for about 44 inches so have a similar ability to head upstream
and with a double keel we can both ground at low tide without damage
( I hope )

tell you what
soon as I get built Ill try heading down under and we can have a we built it ourselves party
we will quibble over design details then
untill then Im going to cheer you on like a drunken college fan
maybe Ill get lucky and find a drunken college cheer leader to show me how its done

[masalai]

With lots of money to help defray your build and cruise expenses:D:D:D

[Boston]

that an a lot of great micro brewed beer