What's For X-mas [Archive] - Boat Design Forums

SailDesign

11-26-2003, 09:36 AM

Will - two of my favourite books. I have a good friend who has Levi's book (and lets me borrow it as needed) and I hate to admit that I sold my collection of original Uffa's to finance the purchase of a shotgun for the wife (long story involving a barn full of raccoons, four small children, and rabies appearing on our island....)
I am slowly collecting another set as I find them. ;-)

The book I could not do without? Shoot - I couldn't survive without every single one of them.

Steve

BrettM

11-26-2003, 04:37 PM

I have Dhows to Deltas on my shelf beside me along with ducane Llarrson and a few otherss. You are all quite welcome to read them but I would prefer that you did it at my office...

Steve, too funny. I am picturing your wife on the veranda in a rocking chair with a bottle of cider pointing that thing at strangers... :)

SailDesign

11-26-2003, 07:22 PM

Brett - a hint for those who may be tempted to buy a gun for their womenfolks - if you buy a side-by-side, and they have _never_ fired a gun before, only load ONE barrel for the first shot! ;-)

Never have I felt so vulnerable as when she staggered around rubbing her shoulder, swinging the gun by the other hand. It was only a 20-bore, fer heavens' sakes!

oddball

11-26-2003, 08:27 PM

sail..I took my wife to the gun range..ONCE!..she didnt want to fire my 45 so i got her a 22...nothing scarey right?..wrong the look in here eyes while she was fireing the gun was scarey...she turned and looked at me and said(with bulging bug eyes and a power mad vioce) "I LIKE THIS!!!" tht was the last time we went to the range and the last time I let her hold a gun:D

Willallison

11-26-2003, 09:12 PM

I mentioned books by Uffa Fox and Levi...they have lines, construction details and expert description from the authors.
You know what I'd like for Xmas?.....the equivalent of these books,discussing lobster boat hullforms - down east boats and the like - hell anything powerboat related with more than just some pretty pictures...

Tad

11-26-2003, 11:26 PM

On design in general;

From My Old Boat Shop, Weston Farmer

Yacht Designs, and Yacht Designs II, William Garden

On Power Boat Design;

Creative Naval Architecture, G.N. Hatch

Power Yachts, Rosemary & Colin Mudie

Motor Yacht & Boat Design, Douglas Phillips-Birt

Voyaging Under Power, Robert Beebe, first, second, and third edition

Modern Sportfishing Boats, Frank Moss

Fishing Boats of the World, Vol I, II, III, FAO

Milestones in My Designs, Sonny Levi

Speedboat!, D. W. Fostle

Yachts In A Hurry, C. Philip Moore

Modern Ship Design, Tomas C. Gillmer

Some of these I use every day, all the best, Tad

Willallison

11-26-2003, 11:54 PM

Thanks Tad!
...on the upside, my Xmas stocking looks like it will be full:D :D
...on the downside, I s'pose they'll have to go on MY credit card:(

Tad

11-27-2003, 08:01 AM

I love books, especially books about boats, and most especially boat design. Being a cutting-edge kind of guy, I want all the latest books. So I gave my wife my Christmas list of the newest publications. But, she seems to be having problems finding these? I don't understand it, but here is the list.

Inexpensive Small Yachts, by Steve Dashew
Wining the America's Cup, by Design Group Leader George Buehler
High-Performance Cruising Yachts, by Eric Hiscock
The Absolute Worst of Uffa
1000 Years as a Yacht Designer, Maurice Griffiths
Equations, Lots of Um, Graphs Too, by C.A. Marchaj
Impractical Junk Rig, by Baldie Hasler
Slow Boats Across the North Atlantic, by Dick Newick
Beautiful Boats Drawn by Other People, by Olin Stephens
Break-away Skeg Design, by Bruce Roberts-Goodson
The Incomplete Cruiser, L.F. Herreshoff
43 Gorgeous Plywood Boats With Really Long Overhangs, (and funny rigs to match) by Phil Bolger
The Much Abused Yacht Designer, By Tad Roberts

;) Tad

ErikG

11-27-2003, 08:30 AM

I had problem finding them also... Bummer! :cool: :D

So Tad, have you found any NEW design books lately, on modern issues?
I love books about old ideas too, as we build a lot upon them, but any radical thinkers that you or anyone else would recommend?

I like Hi Performance Sailing by Bethwaite for dinghy's, but it seems like he's now getting run past by contributors to this very forum... And also his book is not so much a design book...

gonzo

11-27-2003, 12:17 PM

Anybody who plays with boats and buys his wife a gun has a death wish

Willallison

11-27-2003, 03:08 PM

LOL! No luck with most of the list Tad - though I do believe I have an old, somewhat dog-eared copy of that last one...!;)

SailDesign

11-27-2003, 03:14 PM

Gonzo - I don't know what gives you THAT idea ..... ;-P
By the way, nice to see you put pen to paper and write to Pro Boatbuilder. (I assume there are not 2 "gonzos" in Milwaukee)

Tad - If you ever find a copy of "How to get rich as a yacht designer" by _ANYONE_, be sure to let me know, would you?

Steve

Tad

11-27-2003, 09:48 PM

Will;
Ha, you are a lucky man, there are, as far as I know, only three copies of that one in print. I use two on my chair here so I can reach the keyboard. You have the only other copy, in about 200 years it might be worth slightly more that the paper it's printed on.

Steve;
You should contact the folks at Westlawn, (ouch!) I believe they have a warehouse or two in New Jersey full of that title. I'm sure you could get a deal on a case or two. As a reference the book should be treated with caution, apparently it's full of extra zeros!!

Eric; serious answer to a good question.
Today's mega-publishers are not interested in tiny runs of radical ideas. So we get a stream of mainstream pap from people like Roger Marshall. Everything is dumbed down so Joe Pedestrian can grasp it first try. Boring, warmed up retreads. I had great hopes for Jay Benford's Tiller Press, but I'm sure the economic pressures are the same for him as the others.

The most thought provoking book I've come across in a while is Sailing Ships by Colin Mudie, published in 2000. Almost the only useful books to be published recently are, Sailing Yacht Design, Theory & Practice, edited by Claughton, Wellicome & Shenoi. There are enough good technical papers written every year to fill six of these small books, I can't figure out why no one does it. For useful knowledge you might as well pick up The Rudder Treasury as the latest offering by Marshall or Nicholson. Marchaj's latest, Sail Performance, is excellent, but I'm spending more time with The Ethical Function of Architecture, by Karsten Harries.

My best to all, Tad

ErikG

11-28-2003, 06:14 AM

Thanks Tad!

You wrote:
"There are enough good technical papers written every year to fill six of these small books"

So where do I find them!? Can I as a normal deadly soul get access to them?
Not being a member of SNAME does not help either... As I need to keep the costs down as much as possible I dont want to pay for a membership that I'm not sure gives "enough" in return...

Thanks for the tips on interesting titles, I'll search for them.

Erik

Timm

11-28-2003, 12:25 PM

Eric, as a former member of SNAME, I can tell you the value is questionable. I did just purchase a copy of their CD Small Craft Papers (1985-2002), but have not had time to go through it yet. It is available to non-members, though at a slightly higher price, as are all of SNAME's publications. Check their website.

Tad, I used to work for Jay and the problems of publishing for the marine market, especially the design market are quite large. The cost of printing is very high and then the sales dribble in at a couple a month in some cases. It is very hard to make any money that way.

But there is hope. If anyone has a book they would like to publish, look into the on-demand printing services. These seem tailor made for books like we would want as they print as needed. I found one company that merely wanted a PDF file and $99 and they would set you up and market your book. Would you get rich? This is still the boat business!

Jay has a copy of an unpublished book that Westlawn was considering printing on planing hulls by Mr. Savitsky. It has sat on his shelf for a couple of years and I have seen nothing from Westlawn saying it would be published. This would be a book I would buy in a heartbeat, and it could be done very simply and inexpensively with print-on-demand. Maybe I need to write Dave Gerr since he is now running Westlawn.

Lastly, I'd like to add Basic Naval Architecture by Kenneth C. Barnaby and Steel Boatbuilding by Thomas E. Colvin to the recommended reading list.

8knots

12-05-2003, 05:26 PM

Just picked the wife up a 01 Ford Excursion and she named it the "Super Servant" after a ship she saw in one of my PMM back issues. So they do sneak a peak at those books you drool over!
I'm looking at getting her a Walther P22 for her first shootin iron!
check em out, seems to be a good starter gun.
Thanks Tad for the good list
I found what I want for Xmas
http://www.frenchcreekboatsales.com/images.asp?File_Number=BOP12
:D 8Knots

ErikG

12-06-2003, 08:17 AM

Here in Sweden the only ones that have guns are police, military, hunters and criminals.

I really dont think shooting a robber or intruder is a really good answer, but hey thats just me... :D

Personally I'd never buy my wife a gun... When would I dare to sleep?!?! :D

On a more serious note kids and guns don't match.

SailDesign

12-06-2003, 12:24 PM

Erik,
Kids and guns are not a good match, unless they have been properly taught how and where to use them, and how to handle them. too many folks in theUS keep loaded guns around the house "in case" and their kids end up in serious troublew - or worse.
My guns live in a locked cupboard, and the ammo is in a locked box in another locked cupboard. No gun is put away loaded, just clean ;-)
The kids know that if they want a bit of target practice, I'm always happy to get out the guns and walk down the field with them. They also know that no-one cleans Dad's gun but Dad, and no-one has a key to the cupboard but Dad. Limits are good, and good kids keep within the limits.
Steve

8knots

12-06-2003, 09:52 PM

I agree with Sail.....It is all about education! I believe if your kids are aware of the potential damage a gun will do the more they will respect it! If you hide it in the closet and just tell them to "leave it alone" you are asking for trouble! You have no reason to have a gun or be a parent! It is a real commitment to have loaded firearm in the house. The rule in my house when growing up was " The guns are available for you to handle and look at anytime ...just ask" and we did. My brothers and I all got our first Knife at 8yrs and our first gun at 10. Mine was a Fox side by side 12ga we were allowed to have them in our rooms on our own gun racks with a cleaning kit and shells(unloaded) My dad tought us to be familiar with our arms rather than fear them. It is just a stick with a pipe on it...You control what it does to things!

For the record have only one gun anymore! a Marlin 1895 45/70
That I have put 20 rounds through in 3 years. I am waiting to meet some body to hunt with that is not a gun slob and beer guzzling fool! Alaska will kill you quick if your buddy is not on his toes!
I live in rural Ak and the only police service we have is the state troopers they are undermanned and a long way from me most of the time. Soo most plan on taking care of the intrusions that do happen around here! We have lots of punk kids looking for dope money and the like! Anybody that threatens the life of my wife and son WILL leave in pieces if I have the upperhand in the situation. Unfortunatly that is not the case in most home intrusions. I would not kill a man for "stuff" but life and limb is different! Anyway thats my opinion on gun control....I'll go get my Nomex on;) 8Knots

gonzo

12-06-2003, 10:49 PM

Ok, Ok, how about keelhauling, cat'o nine tails and other marine solutions:) Let's not freak out Santa.

SailDesign

12-07-2003, 08:51 AM

gonzo - can you really grow enough barnacles to make keel-hauling worthwhile these days, with all the hi-tech antifouling out there?
;-))

Steve

duluthboats

12-07-2003, 09:40 AM

Maybe we don’t have barnacles but we have zebra mussels they’ll do the trick.

I've been leaving hints about Ted Brewers, Deer Isle 28, the full construction plans. If that dosen't work I'll order them from Ted.

Gary :D

SailDesign

12-07-2003, 12:14 PM

Gary,
Zebra mussels may do the trick, but it's hardly traditional ;-P
Deer isle 28? Good choice - nice looking boat and seakindly if my sources are reliable .
Steve

Corpus Skipper

12-07-2003, 08:53 PM

We have plenty of barnacles here, I'll lend y'all some!:D Anyone have a good tropical bottom paint that'll last more than 9 months? That's what I want for Christmas!

SailDesign

12-08-2003, 08:26 AM

Corpus - move to New England and haul the boat for the winter. That'll solve your problem ;-P

Steve

Corpus Skipper

12-08-2003, 09:51 AM

Then I could get that lobster boat I've been wanting

SailDesign

12-08-2003, 02:40 PM

"Then I could get that lobster boat I've been wanting"

Heehee... That's as good a reason as any (or not...)

Steve

8knots

12-09-2003, 10:31 AM

Will: whats the Gist of this one?
"Another Good-un is Renato Levi's Dhows to Delta's"
I have not heard of this one.

I was thinking on the lists others have posted and thoughtof this one
V Bottom boat building by Sucher. Sail has seen this one I'm sure
and the many books Howard Chappele has done "I can never remember how to spell his name" I have read the spine off my original copys and have had to replace them. Those books are filled with lines for classic work boats, maybe thats why I'm so slow to change my drawing style. The big trawler I am working on is as far outside the box as I can get. I envy those that can make the modern space boats look so good.
Tad ... How are those William Garden books that you have? He published the lines in a 1994 copy of WB I have for a 27' pacific northwest salmon trawler named "Pollywog" I have allways loved that boat! When I get burned out on my big boats I find myself saying "Why don't you just build Pollywog and go fishin ...
I would like to see some of his other power boat designs. Those might be a winner for the Santa list:)
Happy doodling 8Knots

SailDesign

12-09-2003, 04:02 PM

BrettM

12-09-2003, 07:46 PM

Steve, Just pulled my copy off the shelf to refresh my memory. More of an autobiography than a design manual Hence the subtitle "A designers saga" on the front cover.

Some interesting ideas throughout with plenty of drawing details included. Some great pics of old raceboats flying though the air etc.

Surfury is my (older) associates favourite all time boat.
Brett

Tad

12-09-2003, 08:42 PM

Mr. 8;

Dhows to Deltas is all high-speed boats, a couple of sailboats, and an airplane. What is great about the book is that Sonny has published the real drawings, in some cases all of the drawings for a particular boat. And he admits mistakes and what was learned from such.

The Garden books are full of displacement powerboats, but also include high-speed planing boats and sailing vessels. There are two "Polywogs" down here, one is currently for sale at an astronomical price. The other my uncle charters every summer for his anual cruise, she's a nice little boat.

See her here (http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?currency=USD&units=Feet&checked_boats=1038862&slim=quick&)

All the best, Tad

BrettM

12-09-2003, 09:57 PM

I must've got the bonus edition - I've got two airplanes!

Corpus Skipper

12-10-2003, 09:09 AM

Quote "I envy those that can make the modern space boats look so good."

Yeah, but most boat lovers still fall for classic styling in the end! It's blending the two I wish I could do.:cool:

SailDesign

12-10-2003, 09:30 AM

"It's blending the two I wish I could do."

Don't we all? The trick, I think, is to draw a bit of everything, and hope that someday it will all come together. I hope!

Steve

8knots

12-10-2003, 10:45 AM

The "Delta's" book seems a little to fast for me as Will said. If it gets better than 10 kts it will blow right by me. I have my little brain cell workin on doin 8 let alone the problems of going fast.
As far as mixing the old with the new my someday dreadnought will have the more modern trawler yacht exterior but the inside will have mahogany raised panels brocade fabrics and the like. Sort of like a gentlemans smoking room or your lawyers office:rolleyes: I want to sit in that wheelhouse in a Harris tweed and smoke my pipe! ahhh scratch that had to quit. I'll drink coffee instead. Im a salesmans dream when it comes to outfitting her with electronics. anything that beeps or blinks......I think that guy will end up with the BMW he has allways wanted. polished SS for the engine room if you please and a big white Lugger diesel front and center. more switches and valves than you can shake stick at! Not really the practical world cruiser with all the modern junk to break down but I really only want to take her from AK on around to Maine. I will be In a walker by then you see!

Tad Thanks for the link to the Pollywog Iv'e spent many an hour trying to envision her. I have thought of lofting in one more station to gain a real head. Thats my only gripe with her. I think she would be a great first build if your a woodie go slow guy!
Keep them pencils sharp 8Knots

Chris Grayer

03-19-2004, 11:05 AM

8knots - Levi's "dhows to Deltas is one of THE great books on powerboats (as distinct from Motor Boats). Sonny was the "big name" around the 60s for offshore racing powerboats, and did some gorgeous yachts as well.
I still lust after Surfury and Barbarina (the boat as well as the movie ;-))

Steve
I wrote an article on "Surfury" that was published in Classic Boat magazine in May 2001. I saw her race in both 1967 and 1968 - surely the most elegant of all the classic offshore racers of the 1960's? Surfury is now the property of the National Maritime Museum & kept in Basildon, Essex, UK. Also see Sonni Levi fantastic book on Deltas etc "Milestones of my Designs" from where I grafted some of the article.Plenty of info on all his designs including many photos & cutaways.
If you would like any further info, the original "Surfury"article text - photos (past & present)etc I will gladly send them to anybody interested. My EMail address chris.grayer@btinternet.com. I have tried to raise interest in the UK to refurbish "Surfury" but unfortunately have gained little interest as for some reason maritime racing boats have never gained the same credence as automotive racing classics.