That old question, new guy wants to build boat, what's it cost, really?

[Beer Womb]

As you've probably guessed, I've never built a boat before but those images on google of "40 foot sailboat" have got me gushing and my stupid little head has the idea in it to build a sailboat. A big one. Haha! No experience whatsoever, gonna go straight for gold.

I'll make a little extra note here just to quell your fears that I'll be back on here in a month asking about how to put a car engine in a boat, and say that I'm actually a former nuclear engineer, which honestly isn't as fancy as it sounds but Ive seen my share of 'complicated' stuff before and I'm pretty sure I could handle this. Or at the very least, learn my lesson after being humiliated!

So ok, after I get some books, gougeon brothers on boat construction, whoever those guys are, and I do all my homework, thinking about the realities of naval architecture and construction and so on, and I accept that it's gonna cost like 50 times more than I'd planned or hoped, what am I left with?

Am I really going to build a boat? Or is it a stupid idea, meant for real enthusiasts and professionals?

I really want to know if this is something I can do as a hobby. More than a hobby. To challenge myself, because I think building a sailboat is going to be an epic saga of problem solving and frustration. And I love that. Nothing but this, until its done. Would I be proud? Over my head? I bet sailing a vessel YOU built might just be as awesome as watching your child being born. (Maybe you could finally relate to your wife, having to do all the work!)

so here are my real questions:

1. Will it be rewarding? Fun?

2. Ok honestly haha how much will it cost me? 35-45 foot monohull, wood?

3. After I build it, and let's say I manage to do an ok job, does it have value? Would I be able to sell it, and at least break even, or would it always have the stigma of being built by "some guy" in his back yard? Maybe a business? haha!

I appreciate all your feedback guys, thanks!

-Beer Womb

[Butch .H]

Yup that being built by "some guy" in his back yard is going to stick.Not for no reason .You should see some of the crap people can come up with.Build your boat it is fun rewarding and painfull. If you are building to sell you are doing it for the wrong reason.That is unless that is your business.If you want a estmate of value try insure the boat:D

[masalai]

First, consider where you plan to cruise, and then
Do you intend to be "marina dependant" - - or - - self sufficient...
Shelter from stormy weather up a creek - - or - - putting out to sea and run away of "weather the storm"
Travel solo or a select few (girlfriend children etc) - - or - - round the buoys or short passage racing
Do you intend to cruise globally - - or - - make foreys cruising the local region during annual leave etc..
There are lots of other questions to answer before considering will the boat be a mono/cat/tri/trailer-borne and so forth, then size, build material then the design and support to get it built PROPERLY....

Read this "case study" - - - Build yourself a boat and do a lap, crazy or not? and don't follow in those footsteps....

[eponodyne]

Generally speaking, figure on about five to eight dollars a pound before you can start shakedown cruises. This is why, to a point, light boats cost less. Don't go thinking you're going to reinvent the wheel. Just buy the plans for a Bruce Roberts 38 and follow them exactly.

[Beer Womb]

Alright, I suppose it boils down to, is there any real reason why people build their own boats?

Aside from that idea of having built it yourself, is there any other financial benefit or whatever?

I may as well just take a look at the used market, eh?

[masalai]

Now that has to be a good opportunistic idea. - don't forget to have it surveyed first by someone professional whom you can trust....? caveat emptor...

[Fanie]

Beer Womb -



It is a big challange. You can buy plans though. If you're new to boating, do make a couple of trips first.

Some things are simple, others are very complicated (wait till you meet Tom Speer :D)
It is going to take a lot of time, more than you think.
It is expensive and then some.
it is more work than you think it is, probably about 10 x more.
Expect to get divorced :D , well, at least a few times :D

This must be something you really really r e a l l y realy want to do. I suggest you find out more and a lot more, but don't do anything for six months. If you still really reallly really want to do it... well, have the head examined :D

I can also warn you now that once you start building these bloody things, and even if you swore never never ever again, expect it to happen all over again ;)

Did I mention it is expensive ? Go to a shop and see what the stuff price.

Yes, it is very satisfactory, rewarding, not many do it themselves.

If you can stick it out, do it right, then you have something.

[Fanie]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. One defenate way to financial ruin is to build a boat AND go into fishing :D

Damn, I haven't started on my cat and I'm thinking of another one already :D I need help. Heeeelp :rolleyes:

[colinstone]

We've just finished fitting out a 72 dutch barge. Barge took 2500 hours in yard to a sailaway standard, plus further 8500 hours by 2 of us. By going DIY saved estimated £300000. Great fun to do, learnt alot, and having lived onboard for a month or 2 got everything right.
Done a car and house, so boat was next!!

_____________
Colin Stone
www.luxe-motor-kei.co.uk

[clmanges]

Definition of "boat":
A hole in the water that you throw money into.

Suggestion: start small. Build something really basic first, like a puddle-duck racer, and take it out and learn sailing. Then decide if you still want the big one -- and still want to do it yourself.

[terhohalme]

First you need a decent design, working drawings and compele list of materials then one or more books of boat building. Then, you probably can build 1 kg of boat in one hour, of you are a handy and fast learning one. So 6000 kg of boat (your 36') wil take 6000 manhour. It takes minimum 6 years of your free time, all of it. Materials and equipment will take minimum $25 per kg. And the space, electricity, water, warm. etc. for six years...

[FAST FRED]

The actual work of constructing a hull is a back breaker. Lots of time . work and heavy lifting.(How does 8000lbs of ballast get there ?, you hump it!)

Perhaps you might consider rescuing a sunk or ignored GRP boat (for resale) .

The hull is only 15% of the cost of the boat , but its a big time saver to be able to float , and move the boat right from the start.

The interior , engine selection, rigging choice and all those expen$ive electric goodies can all be owner selected , AFTER you use the boat and figure out just what you need the origional boat failed to deliver.

It will get you on the water a few years earlier .With just as much FUN!

FF

[ancient kayaker]

Alright, I suppose it boils down to, is there any real reason why people build their own boats?



It's a disease. If it's a recent infection there may be hope but you shouldn't hang around this forum too long.

[Fanie]

Jeeezzz Terhohalme, with that encouragement and my free time it's going to take me to my 300th birthday :( Do you know how up to sh2t our currency is going to be by then :(

[colinstone]

>Alright, I suppose it boils down to, is there any real reason why people build their own boats?

Arthur Ransome hit the nail on the head in his book "Racundra's First Cruise" - and it is all true - especially 2nd para and the last sentence:

"Houses are but badly built boats so firmly aground that you cannot think of moving them. They are definitely inferior things, belonging to the vegetable not the animal world, rooted and stationary, incapable of gay transition. I admit, doubtfully, as exceptions, snail-shells and caravans. The desire to build a house is the tired wish of a man content thenceforward with a single anchorage. The desire to build a boat is the desire of youth, unwilling yet to accept the idea of a final resting place.

It is for that reason, perhaps, that when it comes, the desire to build a boat is one that cannot be resisted. It begins as a little cloud on a serene horizon. It ends by covering the whole sky, so that you can think of nothing else. You must build to regain your freedom. And always you comfort yourself with the thought that yours will be the perfect boat, the boat that you may search the harbours of the world for and cannot find."

[ancient kayaker]

"The desire to build a boat is the desire of youth ..."

I must disagree with Arthur Ransome, in my case the disease took hold well after retirement, presumably due to impaired immunological function in my old age. In my case, for a long time I have been comforting myself with the thought that the next boat will be the perfect boat, and this time it will ...

[terhohalme]

Fanie, gather a big gang (more fun too) to build her or just make a smaller, lighter one... Richard's (Woods) wise words are: build the smallest boat you can cope with, or something similar. Who really needs a big boat? Wanting one is a different and expensive story.

Wasn't my note a straight aswer to an honest guestion? "That old question, new guy wants to build boat, what's it cost, really?".

[Fanie]

Fanie, gather a big gang (more fun too) to build her or just make a smaller, lighter one...

Yeah right. I don't have friends, I just know people wo wants to go fish with me :D

Richard's (Woods) wise words are: build the smallest boat you can cope with, or something similar. Who really needs a big boat?
The boat I'd like to build doesn't fit in the yard :D I'm already compromising... so. Cannot go smaller than 10m good grief.

Wanting one is a different and expensive story.
Depends, yes, always. Anything worth while would be.

I have routed, drilled and tapped the hull windows today. Next the frames, made a jig for it too tonight. If I have to go buy everything I won't be able to afford it.

When you're as poor as me you either stay without it or do (make) it yourself. It's mostly a matter of too lazy to think :D

[mobjack68]

Go to http://www.renaissanceyachts.com/ click the picture for Ceili, the boat in the bottom right corner of the page. Photos of the construction process are great!! Makes me almost believe that maybe possibly even I could build a nice boat. Not knowing where you are? You might want to invest in a poly covered greenhouse to make your shop out of... (Greenhouse???, FREE heat!!) great shots of a cradle to roll the whole thing over as well!! Novel!

my .02

[mike Bonwill]

Fast Fred, are you the Fast Fred Bus Nut. Just wondering its been a while since I owned my last 4106. Mike Bonwill

[ecflyer]

beer womb,
I just read your post in the archives, so I don't know for sure if you will receive this responce since it's 4 months old. I can offer much advice because like you I had never been on a sailboat in my life and decided to build my own 47 footer. I have been working on it 2.5 years and I do it because I love building things, learning new things and the sense of pride and accomplishment you get when one creates. The building process is my hobby and enjoyment. I did not have the bug to go sailing when I started this project, but I must confess that now as it is taking shape I am anxious to get it done. If you decide to go ahead and want advice e-mail me at
: ecflyer@netnet.net

[Fanie]

Hi EC,

And the rewards you will see.
It's going to be one hell of a thrill kick under the butt experience the wirst time you're going to dunk it on water...

Afer that you're going to start thinking about the next one :D

[SheetWise]

It's very personal.

I'm on my 15th car, 10th computer, 5th bow, 4th wife, and third boat. It's all about how much they cost to replace. I can't think of any I didn't want to replace within the first year ...

In all of these cases, I think a restoration is as satisfying as a build ;)

It's a process, and there is no end to it short of death. We do it because we're mortal -- there's only so much time, we've got to try and get it right. If you don't obsess on boats, you're going to obsess on something else, so you might as well just go for it. Take your age into consideration when you make the decision, and pull the trigger.

[FAST FRED]

The OLD reason for wanting to build a custom design and build was that the market did not offer a similar design , and your Desirements were very unique.

To recreate an existing design , "your way", is an exercise in spending cash to duplicate a cookie.

In todays market if you wish to go BOATING a used boat can be bought for perhaps 1/4 of a newbuild , even a backyard build.

IF working on boats is THE HOBBY , by all means go build a bunch , but don't expect to sell them , as the competition is a very mature product with a brand name.

Try building a sailing dink , to see how you construction , which could later be a tender for the "real" boat.

FF

[cor]

What about the cost? Not too many answers about the money involved. The prices range from $5 per pound to $25 per kg, that is a big variation. Is that reasonable for a wooden boat. Does that include outfitting, sails, winches, galley sink? How much of that is in the sailing rig, what if it's a power boat?

C.O.

[apex1]

What about the cost? Not too many answers about the money involved. The prices range from $5 per pound to $25 per kg, that is a big variation. Is that reasonable for a wooden boat. Does that include outfitting, sails, winches, galley sink? How much of that is in the sailing rig, what if it's a power boat?
C.O.

You C A N build for $5 per lb, if it´s a simple design and cheap material / installations etc. More likely you´ll end up at $5 per kg (still simple and cheap stuff). Going for Al Al, wood / Epoxy for the hull and superstructure increases just that part to some $12 to $25 kg! Then you do´nt like to install the Wal Mart crap in your precious hull and increase the value further. And so on.
So, at 25$ per kg you are at the upper end, but still not at the peak!
As a matter of fact, or just a rule of thumb?, you can reckon, that your homebuilt boat will be NOT cheaper than a OTS of the same finish and quality!
And the real world of yachting shows us that there are yachts from $15 per lb to $180 per kg ex yard.
All prices mentioned incl. equipment.
There are no price differences between sail - and motoryachts.
Regards
Richard

[TeddyDiver]

wood / Epoxy for the hull and superstructure increases just that part to some $12 to $25 kg!
In this I have to disagree a bit. Wood/epoxy can be propably the most cost effficient building method bcs you can use cheaper timber qualities just by sawing it yourself and picking up all the good strips and use the "bad" for secondary purposes. Of course if you buy everything premanufactured and premium quality it's a different story.
Building a traditional wood hull on you need first class timber and it's a lot harder to find anywhere even if you were ready to pay the price..

[TeddyDiver]

What about the cost? Not too many answers about the money involved.
Every single dime you possibly can get, loan, borrow, spare and peg :P And when you get your boat wet and start sailing beyond the horizon it really starts cost you real money and thats the truth...

[apex1]

In this I have to disagree a bit.

Teddy, a bit is always ok! And naturally the classic way in wood would be one of the most expensive. But the cheapest method is wood Ep never, even if you steel the wood! Our cost comparison on a recent 70ft project made very clear, that the cost for steel versus wood Epoxy, had a little advantage for the steel.......it was cheaper than the resin (and related stuff) only!

And I agree totally with your statement, that you learn the meaning of cost in deep, when you set sail for cruising!

Regards
Richard

[fng]

something else to think about is how long it will take you. To give you an example I am a boatbuilder and have spec built boats in my spare time. What I have found is that while still doing the day job I was able to average 750 hours per year on my projects or an average of 15hours per week.
In your case there have been suggestions of 6000 hours for you to build your dream ( which would be a good yard stick for you ) .
so if you think you could average 15 hours per week you are in for a 8 year build. My last project I averaged 25 hours but I was single again then.
Now how many stories have you heard of marrage break ups or half built boats going for a song.
Try starting with a kit dinghy and see how long it takes you compared to the advertised build times.
Also this will let you know if you are epoxy tollerant

[ecflyer]

Cor in Alaska wants to know costs.

[ecflyer]

Cor in Alaska wants to know costs.

I can give you the scoop because I am building a 47' cold molded wood and epoxy and have the basic boat built in 2.5 years. My total built time will be 6000 man hours. First of all estimating boat costs by the # is an extremely rough estimate and is really not the proper way to determine cost of a project. Building a larger boat should cost only a little more than building an average size boat. I will not post the reasons why on this site, but if you need to know contact me personally at ecflyer@netnet.net I can however give you a hint. A person working on a small project will order epoxy in 1 gallon containers and pay retail price. I used 137 gallons of epoxy on my 47 footer and ordered epoxy in 55 gallon drums and did not pay retail price. One can easily see that one's purchasing skills plays a large part in the cost of a project. Additionally the internet reduces costs by bring the world's market to your finger tips. So $5/# is a good estimate for a person building everything themselves and using many non-marine materials. Examples would be, building your own steering wheel and pedestal, tanks, mast & boom, cleats, anchors, drive shafts & strut, etc. In such a case you need to add to your estimated build time man hours. The cost of my 47 footer will come in at about $6/#. I built the basic boat and then I am purchasing all the other materials (top quality) at far below retail prices. If I had to pay retail prices I would guess the cost to be more like $8-9/#. I am striving for a top quality end product superior to most mfg'd boats. Ultimately you are the determining factor as to the exact cost of your project. So that is the scoop and no BS.

Have a Spiffy G'Day
Earl