steel canoe plans

[Hacklebellyfin]

hi
Does somebody know where i can find steel canoe plans please?

I found that link but the paypal part doesn't look clean to me:

http://www.e-junkie.com/shop/product/42060.php?shop_name=plansplansplans#BUILD+ALUMINUM+CANOE+BOAT+PLANS+canoes+steel+kayak

[pkoken]

Have you considered lead or (ferro)cement as alternatives?

[Hacklebellyfin]

yes i did:

http://www.uah.edu/student_life/organizations/ASCE/FortheRecord/1972article.htm

but i do not like it much.
:)

[rwatson]

You dont need plans. Just get a 20ft length of roofing iron, fold the ends together and rivet them together.

It will work well

[Hacklebellyfin]

That is a pirogue not a canoe but thx.

By the way, in middle of Thailand teak is very expensive ,marine plywood is difficult to order in small quantity, aluminium sheet ... no one is able to weld it , Strong canvas and fiber glass tape and epoxy by gallon is as difficult to find than marine plywood...

So I shall do with materials accessible around: steel and rivets or weld , ferrocement, bamboo and asphalt.


Adapt and overcome .

[rwatson]

Your innovativeness is to be commended. I went through that exercise as a kid, when I had neither the money or skills to get my canoe built.

Now, what is the difference between a pirogue and a canoe - basically size and an outirgger.

So- use a smaller bit of roofing iron! Innovate!

If its only the shape of the ends - then the angle you cut the sheet is all that matters..

If you dont like the very fine entry formed by accepting the "natural" bend of the metal, get a panelbeaters hammer and dolly, and round out both ends to have a bit fuller shape after you join them. The same goes for the gunnel line. If it doesnt suit - a bit of panel beating is the go, with a bamboo inwale to get a fair line.

A flat bit of galvanised steel will produce almost a zero rocker hull - like my canadian canoe, and 80% of commercially built canoes. But if you want a bit of rocker -simply cut a V at the bow and stern, and when you join the ends - instant rocker.

Experiment by making smaller models out of scap metal - you will get the idea soon enough.

You will be pleased how easy it is to make an "instant" canoe this way. The reason there are so few plans for "metal" canoes, is that they are so easy to form using the instant bending technique - or so complicated that you need to be a panel beater.

[Landlubber]

I made canoes from sheet iron when we were kids, but we had a piece of 3x2 wood at the stem and stern to nail the sheets too, we used road tar to seal them, They were very good and lots of fun, but my neighbour used to shoot the bows off while i was paddling to see how quick he could sink me....such is life, we all had fun trying to get away, lost a few into deep water as a result, but it was all in fun.

[Hacklebellyfin]

Thank you for enlightment.
:)

[ancient kayaker]

It's good to see all the knowledgable senior members rushing to the aid of this newbie who is seeking our advice. Gives me a nice warm fuzzy feeling.

I have never seen a steel canoe, aluminum ones seem to be getting rare lately, too. For me the main attraction of a canoe is light weight, that may be impaired somewhat by making it from steel although the concrete ones were surprisingly light.

Hack, my inclination is to look at local tradition for guidance since that would employ locally available materials, although that sounds a bit obvious. You clearly have supply problems for any wood except bamboo. Steel is not as easy as aluminum to form, sounds like a lot or work; if you can get aluminum you don't have to weld it, riveting is common enough in aluminum boats.

Did you consider a fabric covered canoe? If there are any suitable fabrics available, bamboo would make an excellent frame. Sheet rubber over wicker maybe. Let your mind run free and let us know how it turns out. And good luck!

[rwatson]

I dunno ancient. I dont think aluminium is easier to form than steel myself. Steel has one attribute that aluminium lacks (besides cheapness and availability) - and that is ductility.

You may have seen pressed steel toys in a shop, or hand hammered objects from third world countries, or have done some panel beating yourself.

With a curved lump of metal, and a suitable hammer, you can "form" steel to some very sophisticated shapes, while the metal still retains or even enhances its strength.

Aluminium can be formed with sophisticated dies, and welded with expensive machines - but steel can be hand hammered to shape, welded with hot coals and hand hammers.

You can also use a thinner gauge of steel for a canoe, which in the end, largely alleviates the weight disadavantage.

Bamboo frames and nylon skin would also make a good canoe. HB doesnt say if the boat is for work or pleasure. I suppose the intended use will affect the material choice a lot.

[ancient kayaker]

RW: All valid points. Since I make ply boats, I was thinking of Aluminum's relative softness, ease of bending and drilling for rivet holes, and resistance to corrosion. The ductility of steel might eliminate the need for long seams, and it sounds like Hack has welding capability as well as access to rivets.

Hack: Getting back to the topic, you’re looking for plans, and I can’t find any, other than the link you have found for an Aluminum canoe. You may have to buy plans for a wood canoe and modify them to accommodate the limitations and exploit the capabilities of steel.

Given plans that appeal to you, the main issues will be, achieving the hull shape with a material that arrives as flat sheets, seams, weight vs strength and stiffness, and safety.

If you have the resources or ability to form the steel to sophisticated shapes then you may be best suited by plans for a rounded hull shape, such as a cedar strip canoe. If you are limited to cutting out flat panels and joining them with long seams, then a stitch and glue ply design would be a better starting point. Your alternatives for making seams seem to be welding or riveting, whatever you can handle in that department.

The thickness of steel would depend on the canoe size and intended application. If you have ability to add stiffening members like ribs and gunnels you could reduce the gauge but it’s still going to be heavier than a wood boat. That being the case you should select a design with adequate load capacity and add more floatation than the designer called for. Some of the bouyancy chambers should be above the water line as it will be difficult to turn it over if you are left swimming and the boat is flipped over.

A final point. Since the material will arrive as flat sheet form, canoe types that start as flat sheets may be the best starting point. North American birch bark canoes, for example, are made by forming a sheet of bark to the required shape, cutting darts along the sheerline above the waterline to eliminate the hogging that results when the material is brought in to form the stems, and then reinforcing to add stiffness. It may help you to obtain a book that describes the process.

Beyond that I don’t think I am qualified to advise but maybe someone else can step up to the plate. Once again, good luck!

[Ramona]

I'm with the other Australians on this topic re steel canoes. Never saw any other sort when I was a kid. I started with a sheet of corrugated iron, flattened out the corrugations with a hammer on concrete as best I could. Bent the ends up and used the bit of timber to nail to, then tar off the road melted in to seal. Stomped about on the inside to get a flatter bottom for stability. Light and easy to carry by myself. The bigger kids used spacers and thin timber gunwales and painted canvas for decks.

My rich kid cousin had a double canoe made out of new flat steel with buoyancy tanks by a local plumber. It was a heap of crap.

[ancient kayaker]

OK I was being lazy. I finally did the numbers: assuming 24g galv at 1.16 lb/sq ft a 14 ft canoe works out to about 44 lb plus gunnels and fittings. Even 22g comes in at 48 lb and I wouldn't think you'd need thicker than that. Not bad actually, compared to an old glass one I had which was way heavier than that. I admit am biassed, because my woody cans come in below 20 lb I just had difficultly believing that steel is a practical material for such a small boat. Anyone got a good crow recipe?

[clmanges]

Anyone got a good crow recipe?

As a matter of fact . . .

www.crowbusters.com

has some.

Sorry for the off-topic, couldn't help myself, lol!

[ancient kayaker]

Thanks. It will complement my recipe for Peking Roadkill.

[Hacklebellyfin]

thanks for your help and enlightment.
Reading this makes me think that i should try directly to build something a little bit bigger .
:D

thanks again for these valuable infos.:)

[Hacklebellyfin]

how thick steel sheets has to be ?
and if it is aluminium sheets?

[ancient kayaker]

It depends. Aluminum is about 1/3 weight, 1/3 stiffness and last time I looked 3x price of steel. Your average Ally alloy has about 1/3 strength of steel,. However, for equal weight and strength sheet Ally is stiffer than steel so if the stresses in an application do not approach the yield point an Ally object can be made lighter and of equal stiffness. The actual gauge you would need would obviously depend on the size of boat and application, i.e., racing around the cape in a screaming gale vs mooching around a small lake in a gentle breeze.

We need the experts to come out of hiding again. The risk is less in a smaller boat.

[NordicFolkboat]

This thread reminds me a of seeing children paddling old refrigerators around the garbage ponds in Tuvalu.

I actually did think at one point of building a small boat out of steel. I was going to take some basic plywood stitch and glue plans from Hannu Vartiala (http://koti.kapsi.fi/hvartial/), select a suitable plate thickness and just weld away. I never got around to buying a welder, so the plans never materialized. And then I got into proper wooden boats.

Say, what kind of canoes do the locals use in Thailand? In the South Pacific the traditional pirogue is a dugout with an outrigger, but hollowing out a log is certainly not a day's work!

[srimes]

for something this small and light what about gluing instead of welding? There's some used in auto body repair that when tensiled will tear the steel first, and auto makers are using adheasive to replace spot welds more and more.

[haybayian]

My own 2 cents on this iron canoe question. Sheet ordinary steel IMO is a perfectly rational choice if you are prepared to do regular maintenance. Steel is stronger than aluminum and can be welded (better than rivets) in thinner gauges (in other words the craft can be made nearly as light as with aluminum). I have mig welded samples of gauge 26 sheet steel, it can be done. Now the real question is building technique. You may want to design a chined hull and build first a spaceframe out of light tubes (no more than gauge 16) and then "skin" the carcasse with light sheet steel.

Haybayian

[NordicFolkboat]

I was thinking of taking a stitch and glue canoe and build it like a steel origami boat. But I'm not sure how easy it is to weld thin sheets with the origami technique, so your suggestion makes sense.

As I'm not a welder myself (tried both MIG and TIG, even aluminium once) I can't say for sure, but is a framed design really worth the trouble? If it is, go with an already framed design, but make sure you don't put in just too much weight with the frames. As haybayian said, using tube frames and chine logs will make it easier to fair. Spira International has plenty of small framed boat designs.

[Hacklebellyfin]

Hi
Found that plan and it fits to my requirements (fly fishing, no boating ramps, paddling, poling, no motor zones, marsh).

http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/SC16_study.htm?prod=SC16

Now i dont know where is going to be the floatation line:).
On the studyplan that boat requires six sheets of plywood, epoxy 18 liters and fiberglass and it saids the hull weights 80kg.

if i use six sheet of steel less than a millimeter
A sheet (nb 22 )weights 16,5 kg x 6 = 99 kg already.

How can i have an idea of the maximum load, floatation line before buying the plans:?:

:D

[Hacklebellyfin]

Please take a look at this related link as well :
http://www.jgfitzpatrick.com/Opah.html

[Slug]

Hi, I've built several corrugated iron sailing canoes in the last ten years. Unlike the "long ago / when I was a kid" material, the new iron is high tensile. It will break if 'folded', it won't beat conveniently into shape to give it more fullness or bilge. However it is very strong, and with minimal framing will make a viable boat. Check my lastest craft, "Schapelle" in action at http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj-S-zAf0jI

The hull of this boat was built for about $125 using stuff that's readily available - even in rural Thailand.

Suggestions that rocker can be achieved by cutting darts in the ends and riveting them together probably come from someone who hasn't tried to do that in high tensile roofing iron. A sheet of iron bent into a canoe will have negative rocker - "hog" - in it'e keel line. It will be difficult to steer and highly unstable. The craft seen in the clip is constructed by cutting the sheet of iron in half lengthways and bolting the iron to a wooden center plank, which is shaped. The shape of this plank will determine the type of boat you end up with. Mine has rocker forward, a flat run aft and a transom to make it sail quick, but a pulling boat or a paddling double-ender are possible. The iron is cut in a sqiggle to fit fair and screw onto a flat-sided wooden stem. Minimal sealant required. The boats are a bit heavy. Modern iron is very durable and the boats show little sign of corrosion despite being used in salt water for several years.

Build some models first to get the shape you want.

Corrugated iron boat-building is an honourable persuit and you won't be alone in it.

Good Luck

[newinertia]

Slug, cant visualise, can you post some pics?

[Slug]

Sure - in a week or so, when I get back to the 'office'

[Slug]

Hi boaties,

I'm attempting to upload some pics of corrugated iron sailing canoes. I'm better at angle grinder than computer - hope this works.

Slug

[Landlubber]

Pretty to watch!

[timothy22]

Outstanding! A little imagination in the rig as well, I see.

[Multi600]

Hacklebellyfin

Hi I'm with you on this one. I have designed and built several small steel sailing boats 10' and 12'. These were built using monocoque hulls with 16 gauge plate and 10mm chine bars. They weigh much less than and equivalent ply boat and cos a lot less to build. Takes about a day to cut out another day to set up and tack and one final day to weld.

[Slug]

I looked up 'monocoque'. Cute word - I bet my tin canoe mates would think I was a smart-arse if I tried it on them. Skiff builders must have a reason for not building in steel. After building steel (corrugated iron) and plywood boats experience tells me that plywood is lighter. I'd be interested to learn more about how to build lighter cheaper sailboats. Do you have pics or specs? I'm not sure how thick 16 guage steel is, the corrugated iron we're using is about 0.5mm thick.

[Multi600]

16 gauge steel is about 1.2mm. Will try to post some more info later.

[hobo_hut]

Hey Multi600,
I am very interested in the small steel boats you constructed. I'd love to see some photos as well as some info about the technique you used. I’ve been thinking about building a smaller boat from steel for some time now, given the fact that I am a proficient welder and that I am much more comfortable working with steel than wood, but I have not been able to find a lot of info about it. I was hoping someone would have already attempted it. I was planning on basically taking a stitch and glue plan and using steel sheet instead of wood ply, as was mentioned earlier in this thread.

[Hacklebellyfin]

Hobo hut ,

Would you please take a look on this boat and tell me what you think of it if build with steel sheets etc..

http://www.montanaboatbuilders.com/driftboats_freestoneskiff.htm

Thank you

[Multi600]

Hi
I have been struggling to find any decent pictures of the boats ( I built them almost 20 years ago). I am currently looking at producing CAD models of the boats with a view to selling plans or kits for for home build. I will look again over the weekend for some better photos.
The one attached is a scan from an old computer print so sorry about the quality.