New propulsion System [Archive] - Boat Design Forums

tom kane

11-13-2003, 03:44 PM

A CAM.A.PROPULSION system can be built now and sold and some profits put to develop a more sophisticated UNIT easy to install for the designers and builders of boats (hulls).Making public disclosures of new ideas in ANY country is tricky and I was hoping to start on more general items of good business practice
Thank you for your interest Gary.Tom Kane

Willallison

11-13-2003, 06:38 PM

:?:
Curiouser and curiouser!
Like Gary said - the pics in the gallery perked my interest too. I assumed they are of a drive system invented back in the 60's (+/-) that never really took off.
Are you saying Tom, that you hope to resurect the idea? If so - and you hope to get some input from those who contribute here, I'm afraid you'll have to give us a little more to work on.....

tom kane

11-13-2003, 11:13 PM

No serious attempt made to put this on the market.This would not be a resurection but a continuation of a hobbie developing
the idea.You can build a small,medium,large or BRUTAL, system depending on financial input.I was thinking of a joint Interlectual
Property application by an American citizen and myself as co-applicant.I understand Aliens can now make such applications but I think the former would be better."Someone on the spot".
with knowledge of markets and the like.There should not be any need to be afraid of competition if you have a good product but there must be sensible precautions taken.What EXACTLY would you expect to know about the system.If the system must be explained to anyone there must be some novel aspect of value
to protect.What you see is history just IMAGINE a 2004 model.
Tom Kane.

tom kane

11-14-2003, 02:55 PM

HELLO WILL, As I could not find the reply to my last message I will reply to myself and add...If you look at all other propulsion sustems you can usually tell how they work..why not this one?
Tom Kane.

Doug Carlson

11-14-2003, 04:25 PM

Tom,

I'm not a lawyer but I think the fact that this "system" was apparently put on public display in the 60's without patent protection and as such has existed in the realm of public knowledge for upwards of 40 years, precludes it from ever being afforded patent protection at this point.

Doug Carlson

tom kane

11-14-2003, 05:36 PM

Thank you Doug,
All ideas have been in that position at some time.They have
been added to over the years by new claims.You can not invent a
Tyre but you can claim on improvements,it is going on all the time.
Many claims have a very fine line of NOVEL aspect in the first place.Tom Kane

Doug Carlson

11-14-2003, 05:53 PM

Tom,

Can you share with us the portion of the propulsion system that you consider to be public knowledge and retain what you consider to be protectable improvement. Is this a power generation device or a method of transmission?

Doug Carlson

tom kane

11-14-2003, 07:37 PM

hello Doug,
A method of transmission.Yes to retaining improvements.And a much broarder compaction of known devices combined.EVEN the
engineering PROFESIONALS would be afraid to commit a decision
to the mechanical geometry involved.That is the problem.But our grandads could have
used it.If the had of tried, and the fundermentals are well proven.I know of no other application of the principle.I have used it for years.Tom Kane

duluthboats

11-14-2003, 08:07 PM

Tom,

I’m confused, but that’s OK, it happens a lot. What is it you would like to discuss here on the forum? I can’t comment on you drive system because I haven’t a clue what it is you have.

Gary :D

tom kane

11-15-2003, 02:47 PM

hello Gary,
What I would like to make progress on,is the ways and means of
hitting the marine market with a propulsion system similar as in my photo gallery.What I think I need is an IMPRESSIVE overseas company showing interest as a sponser or underwriter so that I can show a Memorandum,Letter of Intent,General greement or such to a local Patent Attorney,Engineer to check on Interlectual Property matters.and report. A large account would impress here.
Tom Kane:idea:

gonzo

11-15-2003, 05:22 PM

Under the new international patent laws, you can do the research there and then, within a year, file in other countries. The information is online or at patent depository libraries. I think that no company will give you a letter of intent unless you have something to show. At the very least you need a patent application they can study. I don't have a clue of what is you are designing. Can you explain more?

yipster

11-15-2003, 07:42 PM

:idea: i was going to mention a similar thing. few years back the patent office here told me the correspondence with them etc was enough for a temporary protection. comon tom, stop riddling and let us in on your ideas if they are serious :?:

tom kane

11-15-2003, 08:27 PM

Thank you Gonzo Yipster and others,Now we are moving.
I know I am on the right track..but if I stand still I will
get run OVER.More photos soon.Stick with us.we will make it.
Tom Kane.

gonzo

11-15-2003, 11:52 PM

C'mon Tom we bit hook, leader and sinker. Give us a hint

tom kane

11-16-2003, 02:41 PM

Hi Gonzo,
a quote. " My positive attitude my not solve all my problems but it will annoy enough people to make the effort worth while. " We were moving.More photos soon.Revisit Surface and Subsurface Drive all in one..Introduction,other valuable information there other than just pushing a boat around.and you can do it.
Tom kane. a miss-use or mis-understanding? Tom Kane

gonzo

11-17-2003, 01:38 AM

Is your effort about annoying enough people?

PAR

11-17-2003, 02:32 AM

Tom's new propulsion system is Alka Seltzer in a container who's reaction with water is forced out of holes in the transom. If you're not ready for an announcement why the smoke blowing? I'll bet your just an ad exec. feeding out a gill net, for a product you know little of or understand anything about . . .

tom kane

11-17-2003, 02:43 AM

Thank you gentlemen I love you 2. I am off to bed now see you latter.Tom Kane

SailDesign

11-17-2003, 09:30 AM

"Thank you gentlemen I love you 2. I am off to bed now see you latter.Tom Kane"

Can't be an ad exec - he spells too well...

WillJones

12-24-2003, 12:03 PM

Tom,
The way to tell people about your idea without losing your rights to the intellectual property is to get a US "Provisional Patent". This can be done with any US patent lawyer and it is a relatively cheap process. You only have to decribe the invention precisely. Your lawyer will send your description to the US Patent Office - but it is NOT processed so there is no further cost.

Then the clock starts ticking. You will have protection for one year to sell the idea to anyone who is interested. No one can steal your baby - even outside the US. But when the year is up, you can't get a patent on it because it is considered to be in the public domain.
Hope this helps.
Will Jones

gonzo

12-24-2003, 02:02 PM

Tom already put it in the public domain. The photos in the gallery section of the forum means they are published. However, that is all we get; no details, drawings or specifications. Since there is no more patent protection Tom, how about satisfying our curiousity?

Guest

12-25-2003, 01:29 PM

No, Gonzo. If he didn't tell us exactly what the idea is so that someone "expert in the art" (like you) could actually make one, the idea is still safe and the patent protection is still OK.
Will Jones

gonzo

12-26-2003, 11:54 AM

There is legal precedent to the contrary. The man who invented metal "whales" for corsets lost his patent protection because they were used in public. He tested them in his cousins' corsets who wore them in public, albeit unseen, for two years. A competitor who started manufacturing the same product proved that they were used in public and were therefore in the public domain. His competitor won the lawsuit which establishes a legal precedent. Any pubication or public use puts an invention in the public realm, regardless of wether anyone understands it.

WillJones

12-26-2003, 12:28 PM

Gonzo
That is a whale of a story! How did the competitor get his hands on the corset, I wonder. Actually rhe provisional patent has only been available fince 1985 according to this official link.

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/provapp.htm

Will Jones

gonzo

12-26-2003, 09:18 PM

The competitor started manufacturing them after the inventor put them in the market. Also, note that the one year period starts at the moment of publication. In the USA publication and public disclosure are synonims. That means that if you talk about your invention to anyone without a non-disclosure or confidentiality agreement, it is considered a public disclosure. This only works in the US where there are more flexible patent laws than other countries. It may not allow the invention to be registered in other countries.

tom kane

12-29-2003, 05:08 PM

I have some catching up to do my service provider has been down.Some interesting ideas abound.If you patent an idea the
reason for this would be financial gain and business advantage.
A patent would be of very little use unless a business was prepared to make use of it and keep it up to date and they would need venture capital to persue the commercial possabilities.
I think getting patent letters granted could be the easy part
and not even expensive.Getting the idea promoted and in front of
possible customers can be hard.Some ideas are some times to far advanced for present markets or technology and patenting would be better left for later.tom kane

gonzo

12-29-2003, 06:20 PM

Some ideas may be too advanced. However, you can't patent ideas, only technology or designs. There are alway markets for improved performance. Sometimes the inventor's attitude is the downfall of the invention. For example, Hickman doomed the "Sea Sled" by his control mania. On the other extreme, Bill Gates designed a technology that allowed others to piggyback on it.

brian eiland

01-15-2004, 04:40 PM

A patent would be of very little use unless a business was prepared to make use of it and keep it up to date and they would need venture capital to persue the commercial possabilities.
I think getting patent letters granted could be the easy part
and not even expensive.Getting the idea promoted and in front of
possible customers can be hard.Some ideas are some times to far advanced for present markets or technology and patenting would be better left for later.tom kane
______________________________________________
Brian responded:
Have you visited this website <http://www.virtualpet.com/pesites.htm> and the underlining site;
<http://www.rbbi.com/>, the Recreational Boat Building Industry Home Page?

At one time there was a 'white paper' that discussed the very problem of getting that 'great idea' actually utilized by the boating manufactures. I haven't visited the site in some time now so I don't know how up to date it is.

I still have a significant interest in a belt-driven prop system as I mention on my website, but have not really pursued it in quite a while. I long ago recogonized the extreme difficultly one who encounter trying to infiltrate the marine outdrive leg market, particularly in the USA.

brian eiland

01-15-2004, 04:46 PM

Just found that paper at:
http://www.rbbi.com/white/drives/drives.htm

should be just as applicable today as it was several years ago

gonzo

01-15-2004, 06:44 PM

I think that if you really have a great invention, the "infiltration" should be no problem. The first outdrives came in competition with established outboard manufacturers. However, because they have advantages, they were marketed succesfully. I find that many people complain about the difficulty of starting a business. It takes dedication and an acceptance of risk. If it really works, there are many customers waiting to buy the next "better mousetrap". Henry Ford developed a casting system for Vee engine blocks. Everybody said it was impossible, particularly to be sold in an economy car. In 1930 he pledged everything he owned and worked 90 hour weeks for five months until he acomplished what everyone said couldn't be done. That is what it takes to do it.

Anne

02-08-2004, 08:04 PM

Gentlemen,
I live in the beautiful Rocky Mountains with my former Patent Examiner, now patent attorney husband, Patrick. We are bringing our big family to Duluth for vacation this summer. Patrick will talk to you about your invention and you'll still own your shirt. You can call him before that. We are parents of hockey players. www.montanapatents.com

yipster

06-03-2005, 10:51 AM

PowerTech

06-06-2005, 09:01 PM

I have seen this propulsion system allready a few years ago.It was a high speed cruiser powered buy pure unfilltered bull ****.The owner had a life time supply of feul.I think he was a politician.

tom kane

06-09-2005, 01:06 AM

i'll make a wild guess: a carterpillar belt like in a snowmobile (http://boatdesign.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3230)?
for extraordinairy top speeds of say 800 km hr i'm thinking of some sorta shockwave like in a tsunami
and for real clean slow sailboat electric power i imagine sails with a woven in flexible solar cell thread...
:p
Your guess was very close yipster,but old cheese crates are better,split in the middle so they can run independently to steer,seriously though it does work,even powering just the back barrel leaving the others to free wheel.