Australian surf boat conversion

[surf boat man]

Hi there

I have been interacting with a couple of people on other threads about this but have decided to start a new thread.

15 years ago I saw an absolutely beautiful boat floating in a tributary of the Brunswick River on the NSW coast. Someone had taken a surf boat, put a single out rigger float out one side, put an outboard on the back outrig arm next to the main hull and put a rig on the thing. Though I never saw the rig up and sailing I was gob smacked at what a good idea it was and how pretty it was.

I tracked down the owner who didn’t want to talk to me and told me he wouldn’t be selling it either. He and the boat soon disappeared from the area.

Anyway the boat was so striking that I just couldn’t shake it out of my head and after many years of searching I finally found a suitable surf boat for sale at the right price. .

I somehow managed to pick up a 1992 surf boat on its trailer for $1,000. The only catch was I had to drive 800klms to get it but by this time I was just delighted to find her. The pictures attached give you a good idea of what I am talking about. Its a solid glass hull, with lots of built in boyancy and lovley timber decks, gunnels and seats.

Anyway I have taken all the plastic rowing bits and bobs off, stripped back the timber work and added many coats of satin varnish and she is starting to look very nice. I will post pics soon.

Now I am faced with the build and I need to deice on the following.

1) I would like to use timber for the outrig arms- They would just look right. I am wondering what timber to use- origan maybe or sheeted ply?
2) I need to rig her and don’t know where to start. I though the rig on the old Malibu outrigger looked great. I like lateen rigs and think that would look splendid. Not sure what to do here- just don’t want a modern sloop rig.
Sould I go with a cat rig, free standing mast, even a yaul has crossed my mind.

I would love to here from people who have any ideas or might know of a similar conversion.

I would also like to share the journey with this forum as I think it’s worth it.

These pics are the before ones. Soon I will update with the current project ones. Totally uninntentionally I took one of the pictures with the surf clubs flag pole right behind where i would imagine the rig would be- funny thing that!

[bill broome]

it's been done- saw a tri about a year ago on the 'for sale' site. not a good job, in my view. too much accommodation.

your boat's gonna pitch, due to rocker, but if not driven too hard, will stay on top, at least.

for a 6m boat, i suggest a gaff cat rig with big roach and sprit boom. this rig is quiet, doesn't need attention tacking or jibing, and doesn't need much of a sheet tackle as most of the stress is fed back by the sprit. maybe set a flying jib in light air.

[boat fan]

Hello again surf boat man


http://www.boatshop.com.ph/portfolio/creaker.gif

The rig is said to be a sprit schooner. Note the short masts.

" Cabin " is a pop top over a bunk.


lug yawl?

http://duckworksmagazine.com/06/designs/a64/A64-Lug-ama-side-hiked-5.jpg

http://www.capefalconkayak.com/outrigger%20in%20the%20grass.jpg

http://www.clcboats.com/scripts/phpThumb/phpThumb.php?src=/images/photos/boats/proa/PROA_dana_tenacity1.jpg&w=580

Bamboo for spars ?

http://wikiproa.pbwiki.com/f/101_0436.jpg

[boat fan]

Hi there
Now I am faced with the build and I need to deice on the following.

1) I would like to use timber for the outrig arms- They would just look right. I am wondering what timber to use- origan maybe or sheeted ply?
2) I need to rig her and don’t know where to start. I though the rig on the old Malibu outrigger looked great. I like lateen rigs and think that would look splendid. Not sure what to do here- just don’t want a modern sloop rig.
Sould I go with a cat rig, free standing mast, even a yaul has crossed my mind.

I would love to here from people who have any ideas or might know of a similar conversion.

I would also like to share the journey with this forum as I think it’s worth it.

These pics are the before ones. Soon I will update with the current project ones. Totally uninntentionally I took one of the pictures with the surf clubs flag pole right behind where i would imagine the rig would be- funny thing that!

You could use plywood if you stack laminate it ,any curve you are happy with , then wrap it with 6 oz glass and varnish . Beautiful !

Clear Oregon laminated would also be good , or box beam.

I have used laminated tasmanian oak for akas .They held up well , very strong.

What do you plan on using for the amas ?

[surf boat man]

That is good advice for the amas beams boat fan- I like the idea of sandwich ply- I think it will be the strongest- but I will look at your Tassie oak idea- that would be very nice. I could get somoeone a mill toslice two curved sections out of one big section and then shape it up.

Regarding the ama (there will only be one, this is not a tri but an outrigger canoe style project) I was originally thinking of a hobie 16 hull. But I have been put off that idea by members of this forum who are suggesting a hobie 18 at least or a tornado hull. The tornado hull will probably be the easiest and cheapest to find.

Any other ideas most welcome at this stage.
Obveously my confidence levels are low on this project as I have never attempted anything like this before- but experiance lets me know that having a go is the only way to learn

[lazeyjack]

hey neato!! Do you know what a whaleback is?
its a raised curved piece like this
it is common on round world row boats and icelandic trawlers(fishing) you could do this and take that fella anywhere, it will self right cos of the curved roof and sealed bulkheads, with water tight doors, sleep down aft, , nice, tuna for dinner
Exciting stuff, can you locate one for me?

[surf boat man]

thanks for that lazy jack
This is a warm weather project- I am going for a Polynesian /Indian ocean sort of look. Low to the water- run her us some secluded beach under a pandanas tree sort of thing.
I am inspired by the Malibu outrigger style but simply love traditional lateen sails and lines of the Arabic dhows.

Imagine one of those gracing Sydney harbour- it will turn a few heads and remind people that there is more to boating than plastic factory built yachts

I want to build something like this:

[boat fan]

Regarding the ama (there will only be one, this is not a tri but an outrigger canoe style project) I was originally thinking of a hobie 16 hull. But I have been put off that idea by members of this forum who are suggesting a hobie 18 at least or a tornado hull. The tornado hull will probably be the easiest and cheapest to find.

Any other ideas most welcome at this stage.
Obveously my confidence levels are low on this project as I have never attempted anything like this before- but experiance lets me know that having a go is the only way to learn


Laminated plywood is probably the easiest .I have seen it done , and they look very nice.You will have little waste too.You can make almost any shape ( curve ) you want that way too.

The guys gave you good advice I think.The Hobie 16 hulls are not the best for your size boat , a little more buoyancy is better , i. e. get larger hulls if you can. - just remember that as you increase the buoyancy of your ama ,
you need to increase the size or strength of the aka or cross beam.

Don`t worry about your confidence levels , there are lots of guys here that really know what they are doing.

If the polynesians can do it with bamboo and matting and string , so can we with what we have available in Oz. they paved the way thousands of years ago , we can follow . We have learned much from them , and our western brothers also. Have faith......:D .

[surf boat man]

yes- agreed- thanks again Boat Fan!!! - what do you thnk of that lateen sail- something else hey! can you imagine that on sydney harbour???:cool:

[boat fan]

Did not see that before surf....must have been posting at the same time.

Yes , VERY nice indeed.: cool: make sure you can put in at least one reef on a sail like that though :D

You want to be able to to power down at least a little ...:D

http://www.rclandsailing.com/catamaran/design.html#sail

[surf boat man]

yes or drop the big rig and pop up an old wind surfer sail- I have one under the house

have you seen this- I just found it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laUTdnjlOKk

and this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzG_C5g56cw&feature=related


The internet is a wonderful thing boat fan

[boat fan]

No ,have not seen before , TOO KOOL !!!!!!!!:cool:

That thing just wants to GO !

[surf boat man]

yep- not exactly what I am on about- but its good to see what he has done. not bad for what looks to have been donw on a shoe string- my main hull is bigger and much more robust

[boat fan]

Are you going with a dagger board ?
lee board ?
centre board ?

[surf boat man]

yes good question. I will see how she sails once I have the rig up and out rig on. If she slips sideways badly a dagger board comes into playl. I thought a stainless steel bracket or sheath set up on the outrig side of the main hull would be the ideal place to put it. I would have a simple dagger board that you drop in when tacking. For reaching and running it can simply be stowed on the outrig platform or in the main hull.

[GOTTABSOMEWHERE]

Just saw a old pic of your (?) lanteen rig in a HOBIE conversion ?

Actually you commented on a "DHOW" type sail.................I DID THAT !

I WILL TRY TO SEND PICS E-MAIL.

I used a "DORY" hull (much like your surf boat" Hung Dhow style lanreen rig from a "A" mast. Noom is 22' but mast is only 8' tall.........cool ?

comments

[basildog]

Surf boat man
I to saw that 'trimaran' Brunswick heads way,you were talking about. Dont know if it was the same boat , but the one I saw had floats and rig from Hobie 18

[peterAustralia]

hi Surf boat man

I did a similar conversion. I had an 18ft dory and I added a single 14ft outrigger.

Photos can be seen here

http://www.geocities.com/peterevans_33/new_outrigger_canoe_photos.html

By the way where are you. The reason I ask is that a while back I built a different 14ft ply outrigger. It was built in Nowra NSW, but is now in Canberra on Braidwood (mother's place or sisters place). If you are in Sydney then you could score yourself a free outrigger, if you are prepared to drive a couple hours. I need to confirm that the outrigger still exists and has not been cut up and thrown away.

I am a fan on just one outrigger. Though I must admit I had not tried a trimaran version.

I am happy to share my experiences in converting my dory to a mulithull

regards
N Peter Evans

peterevans_33 at yahoo dot com dot au

[GOTTABSOMEWHERE]

HEY PETER AUSTRALIA
Read with interest your post on outrigger/dory............
really like your Dory.............looks very substantial.
I went for a lightweight as it will not be out on the big blue ocean.
Have not been on the water yet but will be in a week or so............
Would like your comments on the "DHOW" type sail i homemade, see pic.
No sailmaker wanted to get involved with this rig soooooooooo I did it myself.
I think two floats will give it superior stability, don't ypu ?
I'm real good at leaning over to pull up traps etc. and flipping over.......
Now I can dance on either side or properly "moon" also.
Have oarlocks placed on floats so I can sit on fdw. beam and row with
a pair of 10 feet long (homemade also) oars. Also use these for rudders.
Just for grims i have a "YOULOH" (?) FITTED INTO NOTCH ON STERN...PIC.
Please check out my pic. and let me hear your comments.

[peterAustralia]

Hi

From your photos it looks as though you have a dory and a separate craft a hobie catamaran with a home made rig. In the future you are looking at joining the 2 craft to make a trimaran. Is this a correct summation of your situation?

Some little things. A dhow sail is called a lateen sail. It should work well. Lateen sails are efficient, some downsides are that a lateen sail is a bit harder to reef than a normal sail. This should not be too bad as your sail seems of modest size and has a low center of effort. Another issue that can occur with Lateen sails is that when going downwind the spar can get caught in the water and trip up the boat, do not think this will be too much of an issue for you.

One issue that I think will be a bit difficult will be tacking. A fellow called Kris Keluga put a Lateen sail on a catamaran and had issues with tacking easily. i have photos about somewhere. He used a bipod rig.

Some other things, how do your plan on building your crossbeams, will you extend your present hobie crossbeams. Do you have access to a welder and tubing. I have seen photos of an aluminium grumman canoe conversion to a trimaran, they used an aluminium ladder as the crossbeams. In this case the outriggers were smaller than yours and hence loads were less

I have only a single outrigger. One one tack it is a float and on the other it is a counter weight. This craft is called a tacking outrigger. They were once common, stretching from the Indian Ocean in Madagascar, to Indonesia, to the Pacific in New Caledonia and Samoa and more. My feeling is that one outrigger is stronger and safer than 2, but not as fast. (generalization here). If you google tacking outrigger, you may find some of these craft.

My 2 cents worth is have a go with your craft, be smart and wear a life jacket and or wetsuit. See how it goes, if worse comes to worse you might try a different sail rig, be that a sprit rig on a lugsail like mine. As for rowing over the outriggers, may work. Feel that a Yuloh from the stern may be easier. If you have the budget, a small electric outboard may be used as a contingency.

Does your craft go behind a car on a trailer? If so you may wish to consider the single outrigger setup with the outrigger (one hobie hull) carried up high and supported by some wood. This way you will have no assembly time, the slope of your dory hulls will assist in carrying your assembly at an angle.

Are you more interested in speed, or more in going on long exploration trips (circumnavigation of some of those great lakes sounds cool)?

good luck
N Peter Evans

[peterAustralia]

hi

I am a bit daft. I looked again at your photo, but this time I zoomed in. You have already done your conversion. Do you have any comments on how well it sails? I have not seen anything like it before. That is a nice dory though, would be a shame to lose it by too extreme conversion. I would think the dory would be a pretty sale-able boat (easy to sell), should you be tempted to try and build a purpose designed hull to be a multihull. I guess it all comes down to what you want to do in the future.. and your budget

N Peter Evans

[peterAustralia]

Before I go

I see you do not have a board, you are relying on your hobie hulls for lateral resistance.

In a trimaran, a rule of thumb is that the bottom of each outrigger should just touch the water when loaded. As such, your dory looks high up, and may not support as much weight as is the ideal. Another little thing, with new rigs, it is often hard to get the center of effort correct. If you are able to adjust your bipod/A-frame conversion fore and aft, to fine tune the setup, that may be useful

[bad dog]

I saw a sufboat cum trimaran at Port Douglas last winter - it used 16' Hobie hulls as floats. It seemed to sail reasonably well - in a very laid back non-competitive way - but then the winds were very light. The water was in fact like glass part of the day - great snorkelling, poor sailing.

It inspired me to have a go at building a DIY tri with a maximum budget of AU$1,000, thus needing all parts to be found, scrounged, or second hand. I thought either of a surfboat, or an old 18' skiff as the main hull, with added freeboard.

This project is still on my bucket list, so I'm reading this thread with interest.

[Fanie]

Hi surf boat man,

I like the sail idea you have, it makes nice lift. I made an aft mast setup for a test trimaran that worked pretty well, I would consider adding a boom on the foot of the sail though, it makes better control and you don't have to tack when running.

Personally I would have added two ama's instead of one.

The hull looks like it is going to work very well.

[GOTTABSOMEWHERE]

PETER AUSTRILIA,
Good to hear your comments...........Since I started this project, I've heard nothing but negative trash from the U.S. I have become immune !

Yes it is two separate craft..........stock HOBIE hulls with beams were lashed to the Dory. I fashioned a "nest" or "saddle" for the aluminum beams and lashed them onto the HOBIE. Hulls have drop down boards. Width is as is and able to be trailerd on U.S. highways (no dismantling or set-up)
I do understand beam could be wider but if it worked for HOBIE it will
work as a tri. (I think ?)

So far I've $300 U.S. invested......Will change out to a lighter sail material if this beast gives respectable performance.

No I did not lose any sleep contemplating the center of the sail or placement of "A" mast. I simply strengthened the sections of the beams where they
sat on the "nest" and lashed them there. Same with aft beam. "A" mast is metal lightweight metal fixed to beams at pooint of where beams rest on "nest" Mast is stayed at stock locations of original "HOBIE' MAST. A SINGLE BLOCK PULLY IS AT APEX OF "A" . Halyard from seat lifts spar to apex and tied off. Nose of spar (between hulls) swings as to allow spar to tack.Main sheet is stock HOBIE location. So at this point I have no idea how it will sail, really I'm only interested in getting form point A to point B in saftey, comfort and with all the stuff I want with me.

I whole concept was to have a stable sail craft..............sit in a regular human type position (not crosslegged for hours)............ carry enought beer
and food..........ability to detach DORY and row up a shallow creek.

Am in the process of making a removeable narrow seat between fore and aft beams to row/motor/sail just the cat. Will also install a light weight small
hoist, crank operated, to lift crab traps between forward hulls.
Crabbing on the bay is a excellent way to pass the time and get supper
without tipping over the side of convential boat. I'm interested in finding out how much of a load I can lift off the bottom this way.

Also am thinking about a lightweight ladder/ramp.... to hinge on forward beam
and drop down for beach ramp/diving/standing/ mooning platform.

The more I think on it the more things come to mind

Keep the jucies flowing
GOTTABSOMEWHERE

[peterAustralia]

Hi

Dont listen to the negative people. There are always lots and lots of people willing to criticise. Additionally there a lot of people that think because you have not spent many multiples of ten thousand dollars, thus your craft is not adequate.. this again is bull dust.

If your boat works well, then that is all that counts. If you use it, you like it and it works well, then the boat is a winner.

The ability to detach the dory is cool. It looks like a Gloucester Gull by Bolger, did you buy or build it? It looks like a real cool rowboat.

I guess in longer term you may wish to have greater beam(width). To achieve this you may need some sliding crossbeam/folding crossbeam mechanism. The downside is that this is more work and money. The upside may be more speed. So I guess the immediate next step is to go sailing and see how it goes.

An aside, I have 2 weeks off work soon. Intend to spend 5 days or so circumnavigating Port Phillip Bay in my tacking outrigger. When I get back will share some photos.

regards
N Peter Evans

[GOTTABSOMEWHERE]

SURFBOAT MAN

Yup...............would like to see pics of your trip.

Yup...........I built the "DORY" it was a easy and lightly built.....3 sheets 1/4"
plywood with epoxy over.

Plans and building information is on net "[I]cruisernews.net/dory/"
Also "GOOGLE LOBO DE MAR ll" and "SOUTH HAVEN DORY PLANS"

Let me hear from you after you return.

GOTTABSOMEWHERE

[bad dog]

How ya getting on surf boat man? Have you made any progress? I have been looking at cheap 18' cats for donour hulls - they seem to be easier to come by than the main surf boat hull (I have been looking for one too, or perhaps an 18' skiff hull - that would make it a very different boat).

Bad Dog

[CT 249]

There was a converted surfboard tri on Lake Macquarie, Sydney, years ago. I can't really recall how it went, but with a conventional rig I think it was roughly as fast as a Trailertri; however it was sailed very well. The surfboat is fairly heavy so these boats won't be absolute screamers, but they can certainly be great fun.

Dunno if lateen rig is the way. As soon as you have to buy a new sail you will end up spending $$$$$. Finding a second-hand rig from a competitive one design class is normally the best way, as they have plenty of "old" sails that have only done a few races going cheaply. For example, a pair of 16 Foot Skiff rigs could work. A couple of years ago my brother picked up a good foam sandwich 16 for about $1000 as a donor for a project boat. It provided two or three masts, loads of Harken ball-bearing blocks, a bunch of CBs, stays, and about 7 good sails. That's good buying, and the 16 hull would make a good fishing boat if you reinforced the transom.

[bad dog]

Yep, years ago I had an old ply 18' that I used as a tender - it was stable, easy to row, and with a solid transom demonstrated that the length and beam are fine for local cruising for two. Using a foamy would lighten things up but local reinforcing of a few points may be needed, especially the keel if beaching when exploring inlets etc. Maybe even adding a timber keel - say tapered in profile from 30mm at bottom to 80mm abutting the hull - to distribute point loads over an area of foam to prevent crushing.

[peterAustralia]

hi

I almost forgot , my trip report. I went out for four days, then I went interstate for 5 days, thus the delay in getting this out. Some photos and text can be found here. It was a good learning experience and more enjoyable than the text may indicate.

http://www.geocities.com/peterevans_33/four_day_trip.html

regards
N Peter Evans