The Perfect Sharpie

[Brasstom]

Help! I need someone to confirm I am not crazy...

For many years I've been enamored with this little Sharpie, The Coot (http://hometown.aol.com/polytarp/coot.htm). The plans are old, from the 1940's, and are provided for free by Dave Gray of PolySails (http://members.aol.com/polysail/HTML/index.htm).

I have never gotten over how beautiful this boat is, her lines are sharp and classy, old school to be sure! I've wanted to build her forever, but never had the time, money, space... (you all know how it is...)

Anyway, I decided I'd build a model of her this summer. Since the construction details are a bit antiquated I decided to see if I couldn't draw out some lines, copying the design to a more basic layout.

PROBLEM... The plans list this boat as being 22ft LOA... But the drawings shown just plain don't back that up. Neither the "1ft" key on page two nor any of the other drawings show her as coming out to 22ft, especially if you include the boom (which you should!) and rudder.

Am I just being a dunce... does anyone else get something that makes more sense?

Maybe she's just too good to be real :rolleyes:

-Tom

[TeddyDiver]

PROBLEM... The plans list this boat as being 22ft LOA... But the drawings shown just plain don't back that up. Neither the "1ft" key on page two nor any of the other drawings show her as coming out to 22ft, especially if you include the boom (which you should!) and rudder.

Sorry Tom, but boom and rudder aren't included in the LOA becouse they aren't part of the hull.
LOA is often used to calculate some factors describing the boat in a way the results are comparerable with the particular factors of others boats.

[Brasstom]

Well go figure... I was looking at a definition (both in a book and online) that defined LOA as "Length overall. The total length of a boat including bowsprits or other items projecting from the bow or the stern of the boat." The first thing I did was look it up, so as to avoid looking as foolish as I feel now! :) That definition made sense to me just because, well... we know a Marina would include them in fees!

So the LOA is from the Stern to the Bow, but only components of the main hull? In that light re-measuring Coot might make more sense... I'll have to give it a try.

[Tad]

On the third page of drawings, "frame & deck beam locations" add up the measurements from stem post to stern post, they come out at 22'. 17 stations spaced 15" plus 9" is 264 inches or 22'.

[Brasstom]

That's my point though... the frames and all DO indeed add up to 22 ft, but do not include the stern post (bottom left of the same page) that gives it that clipper-style bow. By my best reckoning that adds another 1'6", and that STILL doesn't include the boom...

Either I misunderstand the definition of LOA (always possible...) or this boat just isn't LOA 22' ...or I'm still reading something wrong!

[Guest20100203]

This is just a syntax issue. LOA can mean a number of things, but generally it's the length "between perpendiculars". A hull is divided into sections. These sections define the hull volume. The perpendiculars usually don't include, cutwaters, bow sprits, rudder heads, etc. These are "bolt ons" and have nothing to do with the volumemetric elements of the hull. Often this measurement is used as the LOA, even though it's not especially accurate.

"Spared length" would include the bow sprit and any boom over hang. It would be nice if LOA was indeed just that, but don't take it literally.

There are many measurements like this, such as LOD (Length On Deck) which could be measured from the inside of the bulwarks or include the rail caps, both producing different measurements.

Coot is a cute little double ender, though I'd be hesitant to call her a "sharpie" as most of her dimensions and arrangements don't conform to traditional sharpies.

She's a pretty fat little girl and certainly could use an updated set of plans. The file planked bottom could easily be plywood, which would be easier to build, likely cheaper and much more watertight. Also skipping those deadeyes in favor of turn buckles so you're not having to adjust them every time you sail her. There are many elements of the build that could benefit from a "modernizing", without ruining the charm and flavor of this classic old gal.

[Boston]

http://www.tedbrewer.com/ Ted Brewer has a friendship design on his web page that is close to this
Ive been looking at hundreds of plans in preparation for building a retirement vessel
and was planning a friendship as a practice run for reawakening my skills after years out of the water
you might check it out
it could be scaled down a the size you like

ps
I dont mean to sound like a add for T.B. but Ive looked and looked
and am continually impressed with this guy's work

B

[PsiPhi]

Hi
I had a play with the plans you can download.
The distance from Frame 0 (the Stem) - without the bowsprit to the last frame, the transom, without the rudder, is 264 inches (22 feet).
To me, knowing little about the subject, this would equate to the LOD.

It would be great if we had a set of (updated) plans to build this boat using modern methods and materials.
Just to inspire people I think I put it into a Hulls file and see where it takes us.

[PsiPhi]

OK, so I had a play, and a first cut file for Hulls is attached.

The quality of the scans (or my eyesight) is not great, I really only have the frame positions.
The table of offsets is, obviously, a part of the file, but the valid ones, i.e. not guessed ones, are...

Station | Z pos.
Number | in inches
-------+---------
. 0 ... | ... 0
. 1 ... | ... 60
. 2 ... | ... 150
. 3 ... | ... 196*
. 4 ... | ... 219
. 5 ... | ... 264
*because hulls only allows 3 intermediatory stations, this one was ommitted from the table in the attached file.

Does anyone have the resources, time, expertise, whatever, to elaborate on this?

Note: attched file coot.txt will need to be renamed to coot.hul to use it.

[Bullyfahrer]

Hi Folks, this is a post from germany...I also found the "coot" at the poly sails side. I plan to build it in original size, but from the plans there, one page (32) seems missing. @Brasstorm, you planned to construct a model. Did you do it? @all, can anybody help?

Thanks and greetings, Peter