Building an Instant Boat

[ironmetal250]

Greetings,

I'm 16 years old and new to boat building, boats, and woodworking in general, but I do have experience crabbing on a large work boat and have decided to build my own small boat to learn how to sail, crab, clam, and explore in. I have recieved a $1400 grant from the lab I'm interning in this year (I used $260 to buy a watch and computer tablet and saved $200 of it in my savings account) and may be able to take some money out of my savings account if it's needed, so I don't think money will be a problem as long as I buy the cheapest materials that will make a lasting boat...

http://www.instantboats.com/zephyr.htm
http://www.instantboats.com/surf.htm
http://www.instantboats.com/gypsy.htm
http://www.instantboats.com/skiff15.htm

These are the four plans that I really need to decide from. As I said I'm interning in a cellular biology lab as well as completing my senior year in high school so I may not be able to put massive amounts of time into building the boat (except on weekends). I have been reading "Instant Boatbuilding with Dynamite Payson" and Bob Bond's "Handbook of Sailing" as well as looking for prices on sails, trailers, motors, crabbing/clamming equipment, etc.

I guess I'm just looking for some general advice and some pointers on which boat to build (I don't know how to sail yet so I'm leaning towards the Gypsy or 15' Skiff) and what materials/tools to use as to save the most money I can while building a boat that will last me around 8-9 summers (I plan to go to college and graduate school to study Environmental Science so I doubt I'll have the time to build a new boat during those 8 years). General information about starting out with real boating could help too, aside from getting a job at a marina/on a boat due to the fact that it would be impossible for me to do so this year. It has always been a dream of mine to go out to sea, and while I'm aware that I couldn't do so on any of the boats I've mentioned, the experience of building the boat and sailing it for a few years would give me the knowledge I need to build a larger boat capable of making expeditions on the ocean (granted, much later in my life).

Thank you in advance for any help you can give me, I know that my situation may not be the best for beginning boatbuilding but I do learn almost anything very, very quickly and I don't see another window of opprotunity (financially and timewise) for me to begin boatbuilding for a long, long time.

[Manie B]

Hi

I would recommmend the Gypsy or something very similar from the other designers

http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/SH14_study.htm?prod=SH14

https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=429

the "bulls eye" from Glen L is my favourite for you

i have done a lot of dinghy sailing and building - and please believe me when i say that the "bulls eye" will give you EVERYTHING you are looking for, it is a remarkable design.

Please buy a plan for your first build, DO NOT think you are going to save money by doing your "own thing"

I have started my "new build" which is a Jarcat type of boat and i will be posting the first pics in the next month, this will help you a lot to actually see how to work with marine plywood and epoxy, it is easy. Always remember to work very accurately.

Later in the year i will also post pics on how to build a trailer

Welcome to the world of boating - it is a journey that will give you satisfaction for your whole life:D

[kengrome]

Hi ironmetal250,

You never said how many people the boat should carry or what conditions you'll be using it in, but based on what you've explained so far here are my thoughts:

I would forget about the Skiff15 if I were you. You said you want to sail and this is a power boat so probably not very good for sailing even if it comes with sail plans.

Zephyr is almost 21 feet long, way more than you need for 2-3 people, and it will cost substantially more, take longer to build, and be more of a hassle to deal with on land because it's so big.

Surf is just as difficult to build as Zephyr only smaller, but it's still a narrow boat and maybe not the best for a beginning sailor because of this.

Gypsy is okay, it's wider than Surf and Zephyr so should have more initial stability and it is easier to build but it's still more difficult to build than other designs I'm familiar with.

Personally I might go with Summer Breeze. It's a smaller, less costly and easier to build boat than any you listed. Not only are the plans free but they come with sail plans too -- and it seems that more than a few people really like them:

http://www.simplicityboats.com/summerbreeze.html
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/01/contest2001/entry05/pageone.htm
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/02/projects/summerbreeze/index.htm
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/04/s/projects/summerbreeze/index.cfm
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/projects/summerbreeze/index.cfm
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/projects/sb/index.cfm

Whatever boat you choose it sounds like you'll do fine if you use quality building methods -- and keep the boat inside a building when you're not actually using it. Some boat owners can't be bothered to care for their boats responsibly. It doesn't take much time but people are often just plain lazy. If you're not lazy about it, your boat could easily last decades with a minimal amount of care and maintenance ... :)

[ironmetal250]

Thank you both for your input.

I will be bringing a maximum of 3-4 people along in the boat.
Conditions will be everything from a small lake to the Potomac River to the Chesapeake Bay, so it should be able to handle large estuaries.

Is it fine if I build the boat outside if I cover it with a tarp? I don't have enough room to build it in my garage.

Maine B: I kind of like the Sharpie 14 you've suggested and think that I might go with building that...

Edit: Do you think I might be able to build something like this:
https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=459
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/sf/pocket/to16/simplicity/index.htm
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/sf/pocket/to16/mystery/index.htm
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/sf/pocket/16-20/micro18/index.htm
or
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/sf/pocket/to16/ptarmigan/index.htm
Probably more complicated but would be a lot more useful to me. What skill level and $$$ level would be needed to build any of those boats, or am I getting ahead of myself?

[marshmat]

Hi ironmetal250,

(1)
Welcome aboard bd.net :)

(2)
In your first post, you had already gravitated to a few Phil Bolger designs. The current resident of my garage is a Bolger "Diablo", and I was a year younger than you are now when I built her. Believe me, you can do it and do a good job of it. Phil's plans are simple, elegant, incredibly accurate, and easy to follow.

Forget the 15' workskiff here; it is meant to be heavily loaded all the time and, while it will perform admirably when loaded with work gear, it will be wet and bouncy when empty. If you want a power craft in that size, look at the Diablo instead, there is not much in that class that can match it for either speed or seaworthiness.

Sail wise, the Gypsy is built using the same construction method as the Diablo. If you don't mind a bit of fibreglass work, it's a straightforward method that results in a remarkably strong hull, and while I have not sailed one they are reported to be quite a pleasant boat to handle.

The Surf will likely have similarly decent performance under sail; it looks like it would surf better downwind (pardon the pun, but I think Bolger intended it that way) but would not row or go upwind in bad chop as nicely as the Gypsy is said to. In construction, you trade the messy fibreglass work of the Gypsy for some rather more exacting woodwork in the Surf; this is a matter of personal preference.

Zephyr is substantially larger and may be beyond your target budget and space constraints.

The boats from the Duckworks site you mention in your last post are all substantially larger and more complex than the Bolger designs you originally mentioned. The LOA may be the same but the displacement, which is the real measure of size and cost, is in some cases five or ten times that of the Bolger/Payson boats. They are definitely within reach of the first time builder, IF the patience and the bank balance are there.

Take another good look at the Bolger/Payson site ( http://www.instantboats.com/boats.html ) and add up the cost of everything you'd need to build one. I think the Gypsy would be a good choice in your situation; the Sharpie 14 or Glen-L "bulls eye" suggested by Manie are similar, slightly more compact alternatives (but I wouldn't take more than 2 crew on the 11-footer). If you're really averse to fibreglass, consider Bolger's Windsprint or the Surf you already mentioned.

The 15' class in general is capable of the lake and river sailing you mention. The light, dinghy-style ones we are talking about will require a bit more sailing skill in order to be taken on the Chesapeake, but can probably handle it in good weather. The heavy ones with cabins are probably a bit more than you really want at this point. Gypsy, or anything like her, will serve you well for many years. Going much smaller might save you money and space now, but you could end up wanting to build a larger boat in four or five years when your sailing skills are good enough to get out for longer trips.

About the shop: A garage is preferable. A tarp over poles is okay if the weather stays warm. Outdoors with a tarp for protection when you're not there will pose problems in the Maryland climate; you get a combination of rain, scorching sun, and a wide temperature range that will really make it hard to keep wood, fibreglass and paint stable and predictable enough to deal with. It's not impossible but will require a close eye on the weather forecasts.

Note that the construction times and costs estimated on all of these websites are significantly underestimated. An experienced builder, in a hurry and with bulk-source material suppliers, might be able to come close. But a first-timer will take somewhat longer and, having to buy small quantities of materials locally (and neglecting to think about things like cleats, rudder pintles, etc. in his budget) will often spend more than anticipated.

[ironmetal250]

marshmat, thank you for your advice. I was worried that the boats I mentioned in my last post would be a lot more expensive to build and it seems like I'm right. I really don't think I'll be able to spend more than $1400 total so I think that the Gypsy is the best bet (unless any of the duckworks or Glen-L boats
(specifically the first one, the Minuet model) I mentioned could be built for under that price, which I highly, highly doubt given what you said). I am going to order the plans this weekend and I'll post back with pictures when I get started.

P.S.: Is it really necessary to build a model first?

[marshmat]

Payson's suggestion to build a model first is just to help you visualize how the boat will come together. You don't have to do it. But you can build a suitable model of any of the boats discussed here, using scrap cardboard from your parents' recycling bin, in a few hours. (I still have mine....)

[ironmetal250]

Just as an estimate, how much total money would you expect me to spend building the Gypsy?

[kengrome]

I agree with everything Matt said.

Now that I know you want to take 4 people on the boat, I can tell you that Summer Breeze is not appropriate, it is simply too small. Instead I suggest Jim Michalak's Ladybug. The owner of Duckworks built one and has nothing but good things to say about it:


http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/ladybug/magbeach.jpg

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/ladybug/index.htm
http://duckworksmagazine.com/06/projects/ladybug/index.htm
http://buildingladybug.wordpress.com/

No matter what boat you decide on, if you stay in the range of 14-15 feet and avoid boats with cabins and other complications you'll probably have a boat you can afford.

Remember, boats that can use polytarp sails (and that come with the plans so you can make them yourself) will cost you much less than hiring someone to make sails for you. Sails made commercially for small boats like these can easily cost as much or more than the entire boat.

On the other hand, if you're going to buy your sails anyways, check the prices at duckworks and get your order in early. Their sails are so good and so reasonably priced that they currently have a three month waiting list.

:)

[Manie B]

Hi

to build outside is not a problem, just take more care.
cover well and watch out for moisture / condensation forming under the cover

keep the wood dry and oil / fat free

dont build a big boat first - avoid extra costs
dont build a boat with a cabin - lots of extra work

[ironmetal250]

Hey guys,

Thank you again for all of the advice.

I got an offer this morning from my mother, she said if I built a boat from a kit ( http://www.clarkcraft.com/cgi-local/shop.pl?type=item&categ=016&item=942412435&cart_id=379175c6b7cbec475a623ef29ef69b90 )( http://www.clarkcraft.com/cgi-local/shop.pl?type=item&categ=004&item=932687390&cart_id=7fb2f0bdc998bfb38dfc1cfe6415ceda )(she's worried that I won't be able to saw the pieces from the plywood right) to learn the basics, she would financially help me build a larger boat. Would I be able to learn enough building a kit in order to build this:
https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=459

Otherwise i think I'll stick with the Gypsy or the Ladybug.

[kengrome]

I cannot find a hull panel kit for Minuet, so that one won't solve the problem your mother is worried about anyways. Cutting the parts is the least of your worries anyways. The more important issue is how you put them together because that's what will make the boat safe or unsafe.

Clearly you will learn more by building from plans than from a kit, so this decision all depends upon what you want to learn. Building from a kit is like putting a big puzzle together. So is building from plans, but when you build from plans you have to make the puzzle pieces yourself first.

I think the big question here is:

Do you want to make the puzzle pieces yourself before you put them together, or would you rather buy the pre-cut pieces and just assemble them? Either way you'll still learn a lot about building a boat if you've never built one before ... :)

Don't forget the cost of the trailer, all the boats you're talking about will require one.

[ironmetal250]

I'm not talking about a kit for the Minuet... my mother said that if I proved I could build a smaller/easier to build boat first that she would pay for the materials to build the Minuet from scratch. I've been told that kits may be just as hard as building from scratch so I think I've decided to build a smaller sailboat/dinghy/canoe from plans (maybe 10-12'?) that can be cartopped first. I'm going to decide on plans tonight so I'll post the boat I decide on here when I'm done... I'll keep all the suggestions in this thread in mind... the Bulls-Eye from Glen-L is looking good (3 different options for sail rigging, small enough to be cartopped, option for an outboard, can fit multiple people, looks cheap to build)

[kengrome]

Since your new design focus is 1-2 person boats I will once again recommend Summer Breeze. In this size range you should absolutely consider Bolger's Teal too:

http://www.instantboats.com/teal.htm

Jim Michalak has lots of boats in your new size range, and all of Jim's boats are fast and easy to build:

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/mixer/index.htm
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/mixer2/index.htm
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/piccup_pram/index.htm
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/piccup_squared/index.htm
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/skat/index.htm

[ironmetal250]

I've decided that I'm going to build this boat: https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=183 without fiberglassing the entire exterior. It seems like it's easy enough to build (and cheap enough: I could probably do it for under 500$ if I don't use the Glen-L kits). I'm going to order the plans and patterns tomorrow and begin studying them, and probably pick up the wood next weekend and start to build during the week (I have a month break from my lab internship, so there's a good chance I'll be able to get it done and on the water by mid to end August). I can even afford an outboard motor (looking at prices of 1.2 hp - 3.0 hp motors on ebay, seeing some cheap ones) so I think I'll be able to do some of the crabbing I mentioned in my first post, though obviously not with 6-8 pots. I'll update this thread with pictures of my progress (if you don't mind, since it's not a Bolger design...).

[marshmat]

I've decided that I'm going to build this boat: https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=183 without fiberglassing the entire exterior.
Hang on a sec, before you say that. You could build that, yes. And your budget sounds about right, if you don't go too fancy on it.
But DO NOT skip the fibreglass! Stitch-n-glue as a method of construction is dependent on the combination of curved plywood panels, taped seams and the continuous exterior sheathing for its success. The glass sheathing is not just there for abrasion resistance- it is a structural component of what is essentially a nearly frameless, semi-monocoque structure. The boat will still float without it, but will be substantially weaker than designed and will not come close to the designer's intended lifespan.

My advice- Go for it, it'll be a fun, relatively simple and quick build that you'll be pleased with in the end. But do follow the designer's plans and directions when it comes to structural matters.

[ironmetal250]

You're probably right... so the fiberglass will add about 100-150$ to my bill?

[kengrome]

I thought you wanted to learn how to sail???

[ironmetal250]

I thought you wanted to learn how to sail???

I do... as I said in an earlier post, if I build a small boat first, my parents will give me all the money I need to build a Minuet (15' pocket cruising sailboat)... I decided to build the RowMe because it seems like it will be built the fastest and still have some use to me, allowing me to get started on the Minuet before winter kicks in (hopefully)

[ancient kayaker]

You mentioned a canoe or kayak as a first boat earlier. That would teach you most of what you will need to know about building in ply without burning your budget. It will also take less time to build, less space to store and doesn't need a trailer. I have built several from scratch for around $100 each in about 40 hours per, plus plans.

I don't find it necessary to use 'glass, I keep the weight down so I can carry the boat easily and not bang it about. You can get by without it on a canoe as enough stiffness is provided by the gunnels and chines. also an unglassed canoe is easier to cut up and toss when it comes time ...

[ironmetal250]

Been a while...

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/6244/currentboatab7.jpg
This is my boat as of right now.

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8855/boatwithseatscq9.jpg
Boat with the seat panels placed inside

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/696/epoxyou9.jpg
Did I do the epoxy fillets right?

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/504/otherpiecespa7.jpg
Transom knee, breasthook, and oarlock uprights

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/740/p1010014ob5.jpg
Close up of the inside of the bow

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/673/p1010018fb3.jpg
Transom connected a bit unevenly (this is on both sides)... hopefully this won't be a problem when I put the knee in

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/2912/possibleproblemwithbowssz6.jpg
Bow seat doesn't really fit on all that well...

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/3162/possibleproblemwithbowsrx3.jpg
...on one side it doesn't even overlap the seat cleat... maybe I could put a block of scrap plywood there?

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/4264/sheersga3.jpg
Finally, the sheers... I haven't even started working with these yet and I dread doing so... I've had nightmares about it.

[ancient kayaker]

You're getting there. The first one a learning, and maturing experience. Gret feeling huh? I see you managed to work inside after all. As far as the seat is concerned, if I have uderstood the photos correctly, the best thing to do at this stage would be to cut a new one that'll fit properly, since the seaat looks to be part of the hull structure; not a place where you'd want a weak joint.

[ironmetal250]

OK, thanks for the advice. Hopefully I have a piece of ply big enough to cut a new piece.

[ancient kayaker]

A piece of cheap ply that fits well is better than a top grade piece that doesn't.

[Tug]

http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/10816/size/big/ppuser/22042

One of the instant boats..
Cheers
Tug

[Stumble]

I would really recommend removing the bow piece and makeing a new one. The bow takes a lot of shock loading while going upwind, and the fact that the fit is that far off would worry me. But instead of doing one from plans, place a piece of plywood cut to the rough dimmensions plus about 1 inch over the sides, and trace the outline onto it. This will give a much better fit that exacally followes the lines of the hull as opposed to the plans.

You also seem to be using a thicker layer of epoxy than you really need. I normally use a large radius smoother for this type of work, say a 1" or something like that. If you are using the epoxy to fill gaps, I would recommend you do it in two steps. The first to fill the gap and the second for the bonding. By filling the gap first it makes it a lot easier to get a clean finish and ensure there aren't any voids (think trying to fill the transom gaps), then you do the bonding step which is now easier since you can concentrate on getting that part right.

Otherwise it looks like you are doing a nice job! Congrats on your first boat build.

[PAR]

The problem with this hull is it's warped. This is why your bow piece doesn't fit and there are huge gaps at other locations.

The hardest thing about building without a jig, is keeping the darn thing reasonably square as it get it's pieces goo'd in.

Constantly measure the distance from the corners of the transom to the bow, insuring they are the same and also that the lower corners of the transom are the same height off the floor. This can be made easier if you screw the boat down to a "strong back" once you get the panels twisted back to where they belong.

You're going to have hell to pay come time to smooth out those fillets. Had you worked "clean" and removed all but just the actual fillet, you'd have seams that required very little sanding and smoothing. As it is, all those drips and puddle of cured goo will be painful to say the least to remove and smooth out.

Everyone has to learn this and if you're like most of us, then it'll be the hard way. Once you start cleaning up those fillets, you'll see what I mean and you'll be much neater then next time you make some.

As for the bow piece and other elements, don't pre cut them. Cut them to fit, because the boat has some twist and distortion in her, so pieces cut to the dimensions on the plans aren't going to fit. Always "build to the work". After you gain some experience, you can build much closer to the shapes found on the plans.

As a matter of fact, I would stop gluing in pieces at this point and start cleaning up those fillets. It's a lesson you need to learn if you're to make the job go easier further on in the build. Buy lots of sand paper.

I would also think you need to tape some of those seams. If you install parts over previously filleted seams, you may have access issues when it comes time to tape up stuff.

So, stop there, square up the boat as best as you can. Screw in some braces to help keep it square. Clean up the fillets that get taped, apply the tape, then start "fitting" the next pieces, knowing what you're about to learn about fillets.

What you'll learn is once the fillets dry, they're a bear to sand smooth, so you'll try to make them much smoother next time. Also apply the tape as you do you fillets. It saves time and makes smoothing things out easier and is a fair amount stronger too.

Keep stroking it, you're getting there. It's looking more like a boat now.

[ironmetal250]

Thanks for the advice.

What do you mean by a "strong back" and braces? What should I use for braces and where should I put them?

[Manie B]

hi Ironmetal250

congratulations on your build

it is absolutely fantastic how far you have progressed

what PAR has said is 100% correct

from what i can see is that your putty mix was too watery - it should have been much thicker. it is important that you take great care with your filleting of seams -it saves a huge amount of time and hard work later.

hang in there for a couple of days - i am going to do my next lot of fillets and TAPE this coming weekend and i will take a comprehensive lot of photos on the mixing and bagging of the putty and spreading

all this will be posted on my miniCAT5 build

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-building/minicat-5-a-24096.html

as you can see from this pic it is easy and saves a lot of work later

but once again

GO MAN GO

i am proud of you even if i am on the other side of the planet

[Manie B]

i have looked at your pics now very carefully

your boat is already very solid - it is unlikely that you would be able to twist or bend the boat. Dont worry it is all good DO NOT cut out or remove ANY parts

everything can be fixed and cleaned up

the boat will be a lot of fun

are you working with epoxy ???

please post pics of ALL your mixing and fillers

[ironmetal250]

Yes, I am working with epoxy - I'm at my lab now so I can't post pics until later, I got it all from a kit though (couldn't find it all anywhere else).

[marshmat]

Manie,

No resin-mixing station I have ever seen is anywhere close to that neat. No way are you doing any actual work there! ;)

ironmetal250,

Glad to see you're making progress :) At this point, you really do need to sit down and clean up the epoxy fillets. On the very first seam of my Bolger Diablo, I made the exact same mistake and didn't get the goop perfectly smooth the first time. After cleaning that up, I learned very quickly to get these smooth and uniform the first time. Per the recommendations of Bolger & Payson, I later did the fillets and glass tape in a single step; thus, the joint is both stronger and easier to keep smooth than if the fillets are done first and the tape later.

I agree with the previous posters that it's better to cut a new bow seat from lower-grade ply, than to try to glue in one that doesn't fit quite right. Measure twice, cut once.....

Don't worry so much about the sheers / gunwales. There are a few tricks to these, but they're not difficult. You don't need any fancy steaming box or anything. If you need to soften the wood a bit to get it to follow the curve, wrapping a towel around the section to be bent and dripping some freshly boiled water on it will soften it up in a couple of minutes. I should also note that these pieces are some of the most highly loaded structural components on a boat like this, and you'd be wise to both epoxy-glue and mechanically fasten them through the hullsides and to each other. (They take most of the force when you row, crash into a dock, pick the boat up to move it, etc. and should be fastened accordingly.)

[ancient kayaker]

Manie,

No resin-mixing station I have ever seen is anywhere close to that neat. No way are you doing any actual work there! ;)


Oh, I think it has been used, the resin levels are down from the top. They don't quite look the same though; Manie: did you forget to prime the pumps a couple of times?

Actually, my resin station is at least that neat: however, I never use the stuff if I can avoid it, filthy, nasty icky ...