PLASTIC BAGS and our WATER WORLD

[brian eiland]

I just received this slide presentation on plastic bags and their impact on our water world:

This has convinced me to remember to bring my own bags to the market! Once in the slideshow, use the scroll bar on the right side of the screen to scroll through.

Everyone on earth should see this. It's that important.

And please pass it on-


http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080506/MULTIMEDIA02/80505016

[tinhorn]

Pretty compelling. I use mine to line my wastebasket - it does double duty! They do look pretty tacky in trees, and those poor critters!

I'm thinking out throwaway mindset is in for some "attitude adjustment".

[the1much]

i come from a place where littering is worse then murder,,,,,,then i moved down here to texas,,,,,ALL,,and i DID say ALL the trees round here have plastic damned bags in them,,,,,,,along with bags,,are the plastic rings that hold a 6 pack of soda or beer,,,,them things are like dropping bombs on wildlife :(
Thanks for the show brian
hehe ;) Jim

[lazeyjack]

yes Brian and MUCH Ua Tr gr Uk are same, plastic bags festoon the hedges
I would like to see a totel ban on them, turtles eat them thinking , jellyfish
Some things are so simple to fix, yet our politicians are so thick

[Butch .H]

Why does it take a politician to tell you you should dispose of plastic bags in a responsible way or to re use same?

[the1much]

thats cause most governments want us to keep b!tching bout what they think is no big deal,,,so we might not see what their doing,,,, should only take 1 picture ( im not sure,,but didnt you post a pic once lazy of a "trash" shoreline?) of this crap to make it all illegal.

[the1much]

Why does it take a politician to tell you you should dispose of plastic bags in a responsible way or to re use same?

it doesnt,,,and the ones that do litter,,,wont listen to the gov. anyways,,,,,,is like here,,,,texas has a law that states,,if i go into a gas station/store/whatever,,and i leave my keys in the car,,,i get a FINE,,,,,,and why?,,, because im making it possible for a thief to steal my car.....EASIER,,,so, they make it MY fault some idiot steals my car,,,,,,soooooooo,,,, why dont we give the plastic companies a fine ( make plastic illegal) for every plastic bag thats out there littering MY land.

[longliner45]

good on you to bring this up brian,,,sea turtles eat jellyfish and some times people throw the litlle plastic off of thier cheese slices into the ocean ,,they think they are jellyfish,eat them and strangle or get stomack infections and die ,,

[lazeyjack]

Why does it take a politician to tell you you should dispose of plastic bags in a responsible way or to re use same?

it does.nt but they are the only ones who can ban em!!

[Butch .H]

Choice! you dont have to use them or do we need to be led by people who we elect then regret electing them

[lazeyjack]

Choice! you dont have to use them or do we need to be led by people who we elect then regret electing them

people are led, look the way they voted for that trigger happy maniac Bush, the gen population, cant see it, and never will, so we rely on some courageaous loner to get legislation through, and that takes time and effort
Afew years ago Kuchma who was president of UA, SAID, We are drowning in a sea of plastic, only sensible thing he ever said,
But you and I are as guilty, we should be campaigning against? but are you, am I, ? nah

[the1much]

o.k.,,,we all agree to NOT use em,,,,,what bout the other 3 billion people?

[Butch .H]

True but we need to start some place. Longliner mentioned plactic(little) wrappers from chees slices .I say f#$%k people who need pre-sliced chees

[longliner45]

I think this is on topic ,,before many have suggested .fisherman only exploit the sea,,but a true fisherman knows about as much as a marine biologist,,if not more ,,I knew about the turtles in the early 80s,,,,you have to take care of your flock ,,let them breed and so on ,,keeping a clean enviornment was paramount ,,I fought infurno ,a large ocean going tire burning,and toxic waste burner ,,I fought jack cuestoe,,,,who would make one or two randome stops and declare a spiecies shortage,,,,,,greenpeace ,,they mean well.,,,barges dumping into the sea city trash ,,Im am getting old ,,tired of fighting ,,,,but got a few more left in me ,,not dead yet,,avoid plastic ,,brian has enlightened me ,,I always thought plastic was a by product of oil.,if you have children or grand children ,,make a stand ,and lead by example,and talk to people,word of mouth is also called ,,,,,,grass roots movement,,,let it start here and now,,,,,longliner

[lazeyjack]

yeah Long jon, off ye down to the supermarket with a tow sack and brown paper bag stuck on a pole and enlighten your community

[Small Wally]

Here in Ireland, a "Plastic Bag Tax" was introduced a year or two ago. If you want a plastic bag at the shop you pay (€0.15) for it. Most shops now use paper bags. The result? Not so many plastic bags flying around, caught on trees and bushes, clogging drains etc.

The polluter pays principle. People care about their pockets, so hit them there.

SW

[the1much]

maine has a "redemption" "deposit" on ALL aluminum cans, glass bottles, and plastic jugs ( everything except milk),, you pay .05 cents on every container,,,,if you want your deposit back, you bring back to a redemption center and they pay you back for it,,,,,the idiots that do throw them out loose money,,,then the smart people go and pick them up,,,,,,,20 cans is a dollar,,,,theres almost none ( yes ALMOST) of the cans and crap littering the land.

[charmc]

Thanks, Brian, for bringing up an important topic. John, keep on fighting, friend. The world needs the good guys.

Butch, you're right that everyone should live better and make responsible choices; preventing massive trashing of the planet shouldn't depend on idiot politicians ... but ... obviously, the vast majority of us 6 billion humans aren't being responsible, or the plastic items floating around the world wouldn't be there. Most people need a shove or a boot in the backside to stop doing the easy thing and do the right thing. Stores love the plastic bags because they're cheaper, easy to dispense, and encourage buying more. Legal bans are probably the only way to stop their production, which would at least eliminate the supply. Might have a chance at removing them from the planet if the supply doesn't keep growing.

[longliner45]

I do remember ,,in the 80s we used plastic bags to save trees ,,now we use paper to save the enviornment ,,ok by me ,,as lazy says ,,I use cardboard boxes ,,over and over to haul my grocerys ,,and when I buy beer ,,I never take a bag ,,,always ..lead by example,,longliner

[FAST FRED]

"Legal bans are probably the only way to stop their production, which would at least eliminate the supply."

No reason to ban them , the ability to create plastic bags that dissolve rapidly in sunshine has been here for 3 or 4 decades.

All thats needed is for a couple if stores to hammer their competition with how "green" they are. Buy Here , "save the world".

No need for the dead hand of Government and unlimited Force and Fraud.

FF

[the1much]

they dissolve in sunshine?,,,i know they make the ones that "break down" fast,,,,,but,, that means its like a plastic bag that been in the sun for 10 years,,,they crumble into pieces once ya touch em,,,,,but thats it,,,they break or rip into MANY pieces,,,,,,they shouldnt even be made,,, there is NO real use for them other then convenience and cost.,,,,,which we all KNOW is more important then some dam littering problem,,hehe ;)

[Loveofsea]

Here are some really good people trying to bring some attention to the issue of plastics in the ocean. These guys are on their way to Hawaii in a raft made out of plastic bottles right now. You can follow their trip and watch their videos here:

http://www.junkraft.blogspot.com/

[freesail]

I always leave a bag in the car for shopping. All these plastic bags at home just end up clogging the cupboards!

[the1much]

i wonder how many bottles they lost on the way,,,,hehe ;)

[Maxim Projet]

I think this is on topic ,,before many have suggested .fisherman only exploit the sea,,but a true fisherman knows about as much as a marine biologist,,if not more ,,

What a load of ridiculous, stupidly punctuated, rubbish!

[the1much]

What a load of ridiculous, stupidly punctuated, rubbish!

now WHY would you think that was rubbish?,,,, i would LOVE to hear this one,,hehe,,specially since i grew up a fisherman,,family has done it for over 100 years,,,,hehehe;)

[plankton]

I have to agree, why do you think that is rubbish ? I've come across some biologists in my time who knew next to nothing about their intended subject and yet seen some commercial fishermen called as professional witnesses on many an occasion.

While it could be true that some well-theorised fishermen do not understand the exact mechanisms of their thinkings, there is no doubt that their observations and short-range reasoning is often spot on.

People who are not commercial fishermen seem to have misconcepetions about those that do fish. While often portrayed as villains out for a cheap buck with a dory-load of gill-nets, or as loudmouthed drunks in a waterside bar in a fishing port, it may surprise some people to discover that there are some fishermen out there who are well educated, some with higher education, running vessels bought with money handed down from generation to generation. Some of these families are corporate businesses, and some of them really do care about their environment and a sustainable resource. Families like that, with decades of hands-on experience in specific fisheries or specific locations, can provide vast amounts of information on an hour by hour basis via their logs that a biologist can never hope to emulate.

And just as a marin biologist often becomes a commercial fisherman, so the reverse can happen too - I know of more than one guy who has taken the plunge into academia and brought much needed life and experience to what can often be a mainly terrestrial way of life.

[longliner45]

dont call names and run dude ,,im waiting,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[the1much]

you might have to "play" with him longerz,,,i dont think i can and still be allowed on this forum,,i dont think anyone on here has seen me freakin PISSED,,,but,,,puttin down fishermen,,,well,,,you'd be better off slappin my ole lady. every time i see this thread come up now i start grittin my teeth,,,,,,,,,,,,and to me personally,,,,im pretty sure there isnt nothing in this world worse then a pissed off yankee fisherman.

[longliner45]

yea much ,Ive seen em come and go like this one ,,make one or two post ,,attacking someone,for something ,,he has no creedance,,feather in the wind ,,im not or ever have said I know it all,but if he wants to talk,,let me have first crack ,,if he wants to query about fish ,,,,hes mine ,,,longliner

[longliner45]

by the way ,,my grandfather was a Irish fisherman ,,and so was his ,,,,my moms side is boston and glouster fishing folks,,and I done my share,be good ,,,,longliner

[Small Wally]

by the way ,,my grandfather was a Irish fisherman ,,and so was his ,,,,my moms side is boston and glouster fishing folks,,and I done my share,be good ,,,,longliner

Did he catch many???

SW

[the1much]

Did he catch many???

SW

hehehe,,,he must of,,,he taught longerz,,,and as we see,, he's already caught 2 ,,,,hehe :D;)

[Butch .H]

Hey what happend to Maxim Projet or is that prozac?

[Maxim Projet]

dont call names and run dude ,,im waiting,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


LL: fisherman only exploit the sea,,but a true fisherman knows about as much as a marine biologist,,if not more

Unsubstantiated claptrap proving nothing.
The "No true Scotsman" type of reasoning is rubbish.


LL: ,,I knew about the turtles in the early 80s,,,,you have to take care of your flock ,,l
et them breed and so on ,,keeping a clean enviornment was paramount ,,

So what? Your personal experience proves very little about the capabilities of
marine biologists or other scientists.


LL: I fought infurno ,a large ocean going tire burning,and toxic waste burner ,,
I fought jack cuestoe,,,, who would make one or two randome stops and declare
a spiecies shortage,,,,,,

So what? Did you win? Or were your protestations dismissed as a those of a
crackpot?


LL: greenpeace ,,they mean well.,,,barges dumping into the sea city trash ,,

Doesn't really mean much, does it?


LL: Im am getting old ,,tired of fighting ,,,,but got a few more left in me ,,
not dead yet,,avoid plastic ,,

A few more what? Commas?


LL: if you have children or grand children ,,make a stand ,and lead by example, and talk to people,word of mouth is also called ,,,,,,grass roots movement,,,let it start here and now,,,,,longliner

I think the plastics industry has very little to fear from opposition of this quality. :p

[Butch .H]

He Main Prozac
Any thing constructive or are you just a bigmouth ass hole

[Maxim Projet]

He Main Prozac
Any thing constructive or are you just a bigmouth ass hole

I see it as constructive to call longline's blustering bullcrap for what it is. :P

[longliner45]

welcome to the forum ,,you a marine bioligist ,or just a regular *******?tell me what you know about the sea,its creatures and such ,,so far you are just a blow hard,,if you know something ,,share it ,,if all you know is what I have seen so far ,,I am very sorry for you ,you must have had a bad childhood or something ,or must be just plain stuipid,,,longliner

[plankton]

Maxim Projit,

Tell me, what was it that has caused you such umbrage ? Was it the way the "load of ridiculous, stupidly punctuated, rubbish" was posted by longliner45, or the heresy-apparent in that he postulated that a fisherman may know more than a biologist ?

Are you a biologist or a professional fisherman, by any chance ?

[Maxim Projet]

welcome to the forum ,,you a marine bioligist ,or just a regular *******?tell me what you know about the sea,its creatures and such ,,so far you are just a blow hard,,if you know something ,,share it ,,if all you know is what I have seen so far ,,I am very sorry for you ,you must have had a bad childhood or something ,or must be just plain stuipid,,,longliner

I'm just calling your bluff. You are the one who claimed to have fought Cousteau and taken on a variety of environmental enemies.

So? Did you win any concessions from them? Did they take any notice of you at all?

[longliner45]

no he' not ..but ya know what (fish on ,,,,,yea ha )

[Maxim Projet]

Maxim Projit,

Tell me, what was it that has caused you such umbrage ? Was it the way the "load of ridiculous, stupidly punctuated, rubbish" was posted by longliner45, or the heresy-apparent in that he postulated that a fisherman may know more than a biologist ?


I've got nothing against fishermen or marine biologists. I thought longliner's post was full of crap and said so.

I'm still waiting to hear how he battled with Cousteau and the other enemies of the environment. :P

[the1much]

no,,,you asked if he won,,,and said him saying he fought for it was a "bluff",,then wanted him to prove he fought,, by saying his outcome??? ,,so if you loose at something,, that means you didnt fight for it,,,,,man you people are confusing.

[longliner45]

Im sorry guys ,,this one cant read threads before he jumps in the water ,,he knows nothing about me ,or much else ,,that I can see,,,the answer to your question did (he)take notice of me,,no,but the national marine fisheris did ,,and (after he said there was none,),we fished for 15 more years,,infurno ,,did they take notice of me ? well no but as a group of fisherman ,,yes,,,,they never lite a match,,Ill bet another thing ,,you probably dont know how long it takes a red snapper or grouper to get to weigh 25 lbs,do you ,,you dont know what happens to the bottom of the sea when fish are removed do you? you probably dont know where 90% of the fish you eat now are coming from ,,do you ? you probably dont know what usdc stands for and what they do,,,if you do ,please respond ,,you see ,I dont give advice about things I dont know ,nor do I critisis them either.,longliner,,commercial fisherman 10 yrs ,gulf of mexico ,high liner 4 yrs straight,,,political activist for fisherman,for those that might know or want to ,,fishing vessle broadbill ,,broadbill 2 ,touche',,,,and maritimer

[masalai]

Which remonds me "Pamela (bigtits) Anderson", is over here in Brissy promoting "BigBrother" as a special guest in the "house"

Welllll we are talking plastic bags......

[the1much]

hehehe :D

[longliner45]

Brian ,,sorry this had to happen on such a good thread,,,,longliner

[brian eiland]

Lets take a deep breath and have a 'fishing laugh':

The American businessman was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village
when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were
several large yellowfin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the
quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

The Mexican replied, "Only a little while."

The American then asked why didn't he stay out longer and catch more fish.

The Mexican said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs.

The American then asked, "But what do you do with the rest of your time?"

The Mexican fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my
children, take siesta with my wife, Maria, and stroll into the village each
evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and
busy life, señor."

The American scoffed, "I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. You should spendmore time fishing and with the proceeds buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats and eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then Los Angeles, and eventually New York where you will run your expanding enterprise."

The Mexican fisherman asked, "But señor, how long will this all take?"

To which the American replied, "Fifteen to 20 years."

"But what then, señor?"

The American laughed and said, "That's the best part. When the time is right
you would announce an IPO and sell your companies stock to the public and
become very rich. You would make millions."

"Millions, señor? Then what?"

The American said, "Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing
village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take
siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could
sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos."

[brian eiland]

...might as well add one more...

How to Sell (fishing gear)

A young fellow from Oklahoma moves to California and goes to a big 'everything under one roof' department store looking for a job.

The manager says, "Do you have any sales experience?"
The kid says, "Yeah, I was a salesman back home in Oklahoma."
Well, the boss liked the kid so he gave him the job.
"You start tomorrow. I'll come down after we close and see how you did "

His first day on the job was rough but he got through it. After the store was locked up, the boss came down...

"How many sales did you make today?"
The kid says, "One."
The boss says, "Just one? Our sales people average 20 or 30 sales a day. You're going to have to improve considerably or look for another job! How much was the sale for?"
The kid says, "$112,237.64."

The boss says, "$112,237.64 !! What the hell did you sell ?"

Kid says, "First I sold him a small fish hook. Then I sold him a medium fish hook. Then I sold him a larger fish hook. Then I sold him a new fishing rod.

Then I asked him where he was going fishing and he said down at the lake, so I told him he was gonna need a boat, so we went down to the boat department and I sold him a new bass boat.

Then he said he didn't think his Honda Civic would pull it, so I took him down to the automotive department and sold him that new Ford pick-up. I asked him how long he was going to be out at the lake and after he said 5 or 6 days I took him down to the RV department and sold him a slide-in camper for the truck."

The boss said, "A guy came in here to buy a fish hook and you sold him a boat, a truck and a camper?"

Kid says, "No, he came in here to buy a box of tampons for his wife and I said, 'Well, your weekend's shot, you might as well go fishing

[masalai]

Huh? are recycling jokes as well as plastic bags (sigh) hehehe

[masalai]

My memory is failing in the filing system, - - capacity is still good, just issues with where I put my memories and accessing that part..... I am sure those have been posted at least twice before each...... recycling and multiple use is good - - - - sometimes...............

[safewalrus]

Well the movement to ban plastic bags and plastic in general moves slowly, but it is moving and gathering strength as it goes -problem is is it moving fast enough? Probably not with the likes of Maximus Dickus or whatever his name is - trouble is a lot of the world is like that - anything for a 'pull' but willing to do nothing to help....sad!

[the1much]

im thinking of buying up all them plastic diaper wraps they put on us old folks after we jus dont care any more,,hehe :D

[brian eiland]

Huh? are recycling jokes as well as plastic bags (sigh) hehehe
You are correct, they were recycled. But I felt it might cool things off a little to inject some humor...and since we had a couple of 'fishy guys' involved I picked fishing jokes

[Maxim Projet]

Well the movement to ban plastic bags and plastic in general moves slowly, but it is moving and gathering strength as it goes -problem is is it moving fast enough? Probably not with the likes of Maximus Dickus or whatever his name is - trouble is a lot of the world is like that - anything for a 'pull' but willing to do nothing to help....sad!

IMO banning plastic bags is a minor environmental priority. The dolphin-huggers here probably don't think so, but they probably believe any old crap...

There have been about 3 documented cases of dolphins choked by plastic bags, worldwide, in the last few years. The plastic bags that did choke those dolphins were used to hold bait. (Proving, once again, that fishermen are the cause of most of the world's marine problems. :P)
Thankfully, rising oil prices will keep many of them on land and hopefully that will allow the marine environment to recover from their ignorant vandalism.

[the1much]

heh............my turn yet?

[longliner45]

ya know,,,,,,,,dolphines dont eat anything dead or on a lure they can see fishing lines and hooks,in the water,,they use sonar to seek thier pray,,and can kill with high pitch sound ,spend about 90% of thier time playing ,,what facts do you have that dolphines have choked on plastic bags?

[longliner45]

he comes here not seeking knowledge,,,,or offering any,,,,just stirring , ,,welly was band for far less

[brian eiland]

...from another forum

I conducted a research on recycling during an internship a short time ago. Here is some 'fresh info' on this; firstly, the figures in the slides seem a bit low.

If you wish to recycle PE bags to 'master-batch' form for re-production, you have to buy a machine that costs $45,000 from China, and assign one person to operate it daily. It doesn't cost $4000 to recycle one ton, I don't understand how they achieved that number. The 'state' in developed countries gives significant subsidies if you send these bags to another country for re-processing. For example, Germany has passed a law for an approximately 50-60 million Euro incentive for exporting plastic waste. So your costs are even less if you use recycled.

A ton of recycled 'master-batch' PE can be sold for at least more than $200. The $32 figure is too low. If there is someone who sells a ton of PE for $32 I really want their phone number . The increase in petrol prices affects raw materials including new PE, so recycled bags are even cheaper to use nowadays. I don't understand how manufacturing bags from new PE are cheaper than using recycled polyethylene as the article mentions. The lack of volume in recycled PE production looks like the main inhibitor as to why there isn’t enough to go around for everyone.

Imho, the households' choice of trash bags will be very important for the future. I might be wrong on my statistics too, also it's difficult to keep track, especially in the case of developing countries.

An article on 2007 PE raw material prices:
http://news.dow.com/dow_news/prodbus/2007pricing/20071207a.htm

[longliner45]

weres max???? I was just starting to like him

[Maxim Projet]

he comes here not seeking knowledge,,,,or offering any,,,,just stirring , ,,welly was band for far less

It is impossible to match longliner's quality posts. Here's one that should be filed under "Death of an Environmental Drama Queen":

longliner: I am getting old ,,tired of fighting ,,,,but got a few more left in me ,,
not dead yet,,avoid plastic ,,

[the1much]

heh,,, man you jus keep showing ya age,,is great to see theres still kids out there that need our tax money fer their schooling.,


:EDIT: ,, i took out my usual response,,, figure i should save my "banning" for an adult.

[Maxim Projet]

what facts do you have that dolphines have choked on plastic bags?

Like I said, there have been about three documented cases in the world in the last few years. That's a far cry from the "hundreds per year" bandied about by some groups.

[Maxim Projet]

,im pretty sure there isnt nothing in this world worse then a pissed off yankee fisherman.

How about non-yankee fishermen who ignored decades of warnings, stuffed up their marine environments, and now want government money to bail them out?

[the1much]

this comes from sea world website,,,,i bet that place is just full of greenies,,,not marine biologists,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
MARINE DEBRIS
A report from the Third International Conference on Marine Debris was held in 1994.
Conclusions were that the environment was not doing very well. Plastic bags and six
pack holders were minor compared to "rafts of plastic drifting across oceans, laden with
fully reproducing communities of marine organisms with the potential to infect areas with
foreign species." (Janet Slater: Ocean Rescue 2000; December 1995)
Australia plays an important role in isolating problems caused by marine debris and then
developing national strategies for reducing ship-borne debris. In 1994 a national working
party on Marine Debris was established by ANZECC's (Australian and New Zealand
Environment and Conservation Council) Maritime Accidents and Pollutions Task Force.
For more information on marine debris or the ANZECC Working
Group write to:
Janet Slater
Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority
PO Box 1379
Townsville Qld 4810
PLASTICS
Birds, turtles, seals, dolphins, whales and fish wash up on beaches around the world as
a result of pollutants in their natural habitats.
Plastic in our oceans is one of the greatest killers of marine animals. It has been
estimated that up to one million sea birds and more than 100,000 marine animals die
each year from plastic waste.
Today, plastic replaces many natural materials. For example, nylon and polyester are
used instead of cotton, linen and wool in the clothing industry. The building industry
often uses fibreglass instead of steel and wood. Plastic is found in a great variety from
containers and packaging through to cutlery and disposable nappies.
Manufacturers and consumers often prefer to use plastics rather than natural products
because they are stronger, lighter, durable, versatile, low in costs and easy to produce
and handle. It is these same properties which make plastic such an environmental
concern.
Plastic breaks down slowly through ultra violet radiation. When debris is floating in the
ocean, hidden from ultra-violet rays, the breakdown process is considerably slowed,
often leaving it for hundreds of years.

[the1much]

Marinelife believe this issue poses both a short and long term threat to marine wildlife and as well as recording sightings of plastic rubbish, has also provided sponsorship for a PhD. The research is focused on some of the rarely seen beaked whales – species such as the Cuvier’s Beaked Whale and Sowerby’s Beaked Whale, which have increasingly been found dead with stomachs filled with plastic bags. The plastic bags are eaten by the whales and become lodged in their stomach and intestines which can at best interfere with normal food uptake and at worst completely block the digestive system – death being an inevitable consequence.

Marinelife researcher, relief wildlife officer and PhD student Jackie Smith commented, “We have recorded plastic bags in the Bay of Biscay over 120 miles from shore in waters over 4000 meters in depth. Beaked whale species in particular are highly susceptible to swallowing plastic bags as they are believed to strongly resemble their target prey, squid. Other species of large whales, which take large mouthfuls of water during feeding, also take in plastic bags by accident and hence are also at risk. The fact that beaked whale species whose natural habitat is deep waters where they catch prey at depths in excess of 1000 meters are being found dead with high concentrations of plastic in their stomachs, highlights how widespread the problem of plastic is.

Marinelife researcher, PR & Publicity Officer, Adrian Shephard commented, “It is only when you actually start recording the number of bags you realise how much of a problem this is and while Marinelife praises any action which could reduce the pollution of our oceans and the threats to our wildlife, it hopes the steps taken by a leading high street store will be built upon by other supermarket chains.”

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
this 1 from the E.P.A. web site
http://www.epa.gov/owow/oceans/debris/moreinfo.html
Each year millions of seabirds, sea turtles, fish, and marine mammals become entangled in marine debris or ingest plastics which they have mistaken for food. As many as 30,000 northern fur seals per year get caught in abandoned fishing nets and either drown or suffocate. Whales mistake plastic bags for squid, and birds may mistake plastic pellets for fish eggs. At other times, animals accidentally eat the plastic while feeding on natural food. According to recent estimates,

267 marine species have been reported entangled in or having ingested marine debris (Marine Mammal Commission, 1998). The plastic constricts the animals' movements, or kills the marine animals through starvation, exhaustion, or infection from deep wounds caused by tightening material. The animals may starve to death, because the plastic clogs their intestines preventing them from obtaining vital nutrients. Toxic substances present in plastics can cause death or reproductive failure in the fish, shellfish, and wildlife that use the habitat.

[the1much]

any more facts needed?

[the1much]

maybe 1 more,,hehe,,we know how ya need facts,, even tho you havent stated 1 ,,hehe :D
http://www.oceanconservancy.org/site/PageServer?pagename=mdm_debris&JServSessionIdr009=unb0zg8t52.app44b

[masalai]

May I suggest you post the edited words? (for those "me" with a retarded service provider country restricted by a dialup mentality of "The National failure carrier" - Telstra/Bigpond).....)

:P:P:P:P:P:P - - - - ONLY FOR THIS THREAD - - - - :D:D:D:D:D:D

[the1much]

hehe,,,your dail-up aint half as bad as my typin :D:D:D:D:D:P;)

[the1much]

im waiting for the response we all know is commin next,,,"it doesnt say how many DOLPHINS have been killed by plastic bags",,,,,hehehe,,,i had an hour to kill this aftanoon,, and figure what better waste of time then to read a LITTLE and make some @sshole choke on his words,,,,,(psssst,,, i know what the # of dolphins that were recorded to be killed by bags in 2006 hehe :D)



:EDIT:,,,,,it was a WHOLE lot more then "about 3"<<how do you get a factual number thats "about"3? :D

[masalai]

Pick it out of a hat and hope no one else has a computer of internet connection to "check it out"..... :P:P:P

[the1much]

hahaha :D:D:D

[longliner45]

hey ,,ya know whats really funny,,,,,this guys an ass,so everyone is trying to give him negative points,,but they are so mad ,that they hit the wrong button,,I know ,with this bunch ,ya gotta have something to get a point,hes done ,nobody will ever listen to jack **** form him ,,he probably dont even have a boat ,,the(max project) is what his shink probably calls him ,would you buy a boat designed or built by him?sorry max ,,Im real sorry for you ,your probably an ok dude ,,,,,but get some help...longliner

[lazeyjack]

i,m listening, I think he makes a lot of sense
Much, I would,nt believe a word wriiten by that woman from the reef
I have never seen or heard of a dolphin doing himself in by eating a bag, too smart
i have seen though, fishes with those six pack rings wrapped around there bodies, and ingrown
I have to agree that MOST fishers are an illiterate bunch, note I did say most You have only to listen to the rave of the tunafishers in the Med right now, anyone who thinks bluefinn are NOT in danger, has his/her head firmly buried in the sand
i do think that the politiciens who make the rules, oft do so too quickly, bowing to lobby groups , from either side
i think there should be more hands on study by the staff of said lawmakers to observe zakkly what happens in the environment, in other words not listen to everything but to go out see it , breathe it.
here gillnetting is outlawed unless its to catch Humpbacks, by sharkenet, Its ok here to kill humpy calves as longas it saves one sad human from being dinner for one shark

[Maxim Projet]

i,m listening, I think he makes a lot of sense
Much, I would,nt believe a word wriiten by that woman from the reef
I have never seen or heard of a dolphin doing himself in by eating a bag, too smart


Hello lazeyjack!

Don Burke (of Burke's Backyard fame) and an environmental scientist (can't recall his name) did a survey of all reported cases of dolphins choking on plastic. It was about 10 worldwide over the last 10 years and "about" three in the last few years. I used "About" because not all cases were autopsied, and it wasn't clear that the plastic was indeed the cause of death in all cases.

Burke's take on recycling has also really irritated some green groups in Australia. In short, his argument revolves around the total energy costs of recycling. Carting plastic and glass to recycling depots, and then to the process plants, and then to places that actually use the recycled produce, is only beneficial if there is an energy saving at the end.

If heavy glass has to be transported over great distances by diesel-burning trucks (eg Mt Isa to Brisbane), the benefits might not be as great as first imagined. On the other hand, taking old beer bottles straight back to the brewery might be useful; similarly if you can get Coke bottles back to the bottler direct.

The ultimate benefit of recycling plastic is even trickier to calculate. Especially if it is put on ships that take the stuff to India.

[Maxim Projet]

Im real sorry for you ,your probably an ok dude ,,,,,but get some help...longliner

No help needed. I can handle your illiterate bullcrap without assistance.

[lazeyjack]

True, in germany where I spend an awful lot of time, you pay for the crate and the bottle, you then get the refund when you take the bottles back ,
That way the beaches, roadsides are free of crap
I would like to see a totel ban on plastic packaging, just for aesthetic reasons alone
Anyways I am sure the Japs, and other Asians slaughter more dolphins than plastic bags do, by a factor of a million to one
i know this post makes no sense at all,wanders all over, but my mind is elsewhere

[bntii]

Ok- So I'll jump in with out even reading the thread :eek:

Trash often = habitat in the marine world

that said I don't really want to see all this crap floating around in mid ocean even if the little fishes are having a party hanging out in it.

[the1much]

Don Burke is an idiot,,,,,he's just like the extreme greenies, just the oposite side of the coin,,,,,how come noone is saying anything about the E.P.A. study?,, see i knew everyone would say crap about the "reef woman" so thats why the epa site is next.....they did their own study,,,,,so are they a bunch of greenies lying bout what they SAW and RECORDED? they say THEY have witnessed 17 dolphin deaths by TRASH BAGS.,,,,who's doing the studies your quoting numbers from? donny? hahaha ,,,,well guys,,,unlike your "significant others" denying what we're all doing isnt gonna make it go away.and all you want to keep it on plastic BAGS,,,,well lets go all plastics,,,,only "about 3 " deaths then?,,,,,haha that 3 number is funny,,,,cause old donny could only find 3 dolphins,,,,,,or does he get his numbers from a satalite? does anyone facter in ( and yes it can be mathematically done) deaths not found,,or found by fishermen and just chucked overboard?,,,,its funny ya all say that greenies go overboard,,,old donny is about as simple as most of the idiot extreme greenies,,,,,,,,,why dont ya quote some REAL scientific studies?,,,,that EPA is full of em,,,,,,with REAL numbers,,,,,and the reef womans stuff i quoted,,, comes from SEA WORLD web site,,,,,,,their probably green idiots too huh?

[longliner45]

ouch ,,,,got dinged for a personal attack on max,,,thought I was the one being attact .no skin off my ass , ,what the fact is I always sign my name to negative points,,ask lazy...or anyone else.

[masalai]

I agree Longie, - - - It is not the points but the feeling someone who lacks any intestinal fortitude to type in a logical reason for the "displeasure" and to put their name/avatar to it.... - - Sadly this cretinous behaviour is becoming all to frequent....

That is why I have been advocating for the removal of the capacity to give NEGATIVE POINTS and promote the concept of posting in "open forum" any expressions of displeasure and request an edit of that part which seems to attract "offence", - - less rules to encourage better behaviour... :D:D:D

[longliner45]

yea massi ,its really not the point thing ,I really dont give it much stock ,some guys like gilly and lazy and many others par ect ect put much knowledge into my hands,and others ,,the point system failed to recognize their deeds,but I am a man of my word,I strive for that ,and have always steped up and said how I feel ,thats why I used lazy for and example ,we had our differacnes and sorted them out ,.but I always atleast let him or anyone else know were Im coming from,but what I cant see is ,someone giving me negative points ,when I didnt attack max,,he came from left field ,not knowing anything about me ,and gave me a ration of ****....go figure

[masalai]

A sad situation that I feel could be stamped out if we could persuade Jeff, and if it was possible to implement. another way would be to internally identify all those who post favourably or against. at least it would inhibit some who seem to have difficulty in anger management, honesty, and effective communication skills.... This net is remarkably free and open, with good participant tolerance and understanding, just spoiled by a few....

When I get frustrated, I seem to loose effective communication skills without resorting to "less acceptable adjectives" and very colourful descriptions - but none of the words are excluded from most modern dictionaries....?

[longliner45]

yea massi ,,I am finally allowed to have customer contact again ,,after only 2yrs

[the1much]

hahahaa longerz,,,,,when i was managing the bigass warehouse for family dollar,, we had a truckers lounge that had a window between me and the truckers,,,,1 of em got mouthy 1 night,,, said,,"its a good thing you got that window protecting ya",,,i got up walked out of the office ( this warehouse was 4 city blocks big) ,,the dispatch jus shook her head,,,,trucker said "what?" ,,,she said,,," dumb@ss,, that there to protect YOU",, just as i walked through the "truckers entrance",,hehe :D

[Frosty]

Absalutely --it is the inability to question the deductor as to Why.

Some deduct because they dont agree,--hey thats not a deductable reason.

Rudness is considered a deductable reason but isnt anonimous deducting rude?

Im not quite sure what the points say anyway. Does a man with lots of points strike you as being mannered then? intelligent perhaps? or just writes well? helpfull? ----- Does it matter.

[masalai]

Nup, - - - but when "pontificating", it helps the argument to sound authoritative and articulate... Hopefully it also lulls the phantom poster into a sense of false security.....? by ducking and hiding for a while?

Hopefully, it is simple to disable the "negative points" and to ensure the poster is identified as is done in normal posts... Or make the negative points apply to the poster who will wonder who is "cross with him" :D:D:D:D:D

I try to offer a solution to issues and problems that confront me:D

[Frosty]

I think there may be a few names that when posting Jeff just sigh's and lets them get on with it.

I strongly suspect that I may be one of them.

[longliner45]

no frosty,,,,,,when you post ,,jeff just take another pill ,,longliner

[masalai]

Pilsiner, is one of the preferred meds longie, and I think the needs apply not just to Frosty, I fear we may all contribute to an excuse for incoholism somewhere.....

[longliner45]

agreed

[masalai]

I think we should leave this thread for others - CRUDE, Grumpy or Drivel?

[longliner45]

weres max,,,,Im not done yet

[the1much]

trying to find all them LOW numbers to go against my HIGH ones,,hehe :D

[longliner45]

yea he finnaly posted his occupation ,,enviornment forensic investigator,,,,fancy name for do nothing job,,not qualified to be a marine bioligest ,,not qualified to talk trash to fisherman ,,,,,,,he sniffs out turds for the govt,,probably his first 6 weeks on the job,,,cant wait to here from him,,,,longliner

[masalai]

Maybe he wanted to go out on a high note - - - (still alive and hasn't been skinned yet..... )_:D:D:D:D

[safewalrus]

To get back on topic (what, me trying to get back on topic, wierd). Was browsing through adverts for firewood and stuff - all being billed as renewable fuels, it's the stuff the greens want to use and all that - really enviromentally friendly, you know the style! Then I noticed something rather unusual - it's all supplied in nice clean environmentally friendly PLASTIC BAGS!................er.................hang on isn't..............MMMmmmmm

[safewalrus]

And another one, recycling bottles mentioned by Missy Lee (who else) in the good old days afore all this recycling stuff was invented, we used to collect lemonade bottles etc and sell them back to the landlord of the local pub (3pence I think was what we got per bottle) he'd return them to the local lemonade plant who would wash 'em and reuse 'em. Milk bottles went back to the dairy for reuse, beer bottles went back to the brewery for the same thing! Of course we wern't recycling 'cos it hadn't been invented, nor had reens ro Politically Correct - ah for simpler times................then some bugger invented plastic!

[masalai]

What goes around comes around, and about time, but the younger generations seem to miss the method, - - - - make the deposit price sufficiently robust to provide an incentive to do it.... Threepence in those days was a fair incentive, somewhere near the equivalent of 50 cents / 50 yen - - That covers USA, AU, Japan, - who else?

TIME that old ideas were REVIVED....

[Maxim Projet]

yea he finnaly posted his occupation ,,enviornment forensic investigator,,,,fancy name for do nothing job,,not qualified to be a marine bioligest ,,not qualified to talk trash to fisherman ,,,,,,,he sniffs out turds for the govt,,probably his first 6 weeks on the job,,,cant wait to here from him,,,,longliner

You aren't much of a mindreader. Stick to your drama queen routine.

[Knut Sand]

Here in Norway, we usually have to pay for our plastic bags. Bottles have "pant", you get 1,- crown or 2,50 crown back in the shop for an empty bottle. I thing it's a pretty sensible system. Doesn't leave too many of those floatin' around. Personally, I put some used bags back in the car, and _sometimes_ i remember to bring them with me in the shop.... :rolleyes:
Have also equipped the car with a couple of textile bags. But it's not easy to get into the habit...

btw.. Some rude remarks in here, from some persons clearly coming from homes without furnitures?... anyway I'm Back from hollyday, nice to see that things are as usual...:D

[Knut Sand]

And another one, recycling bottles mentioned by Missy Lee (who else) in the good old days afore all this recycling stuff was invented, we used to collect lemonade bottles etc and sell them back to the landlord of the local pub (3pence I think was what we got per bottle) he'd return them to the local lemonade plant who would wash 'em and reuse 'em. Milk bottles went back to the dairy for reuse, beer bottles went back to the brewery for the same thing! Of course we wern't recycling 'cos it hadn't been invented, nor had reens ro Politically Correct - ah for simpler times................then some bugger invented plastic!

Ehhrmmm.... In those days I teamed up with a fella, his father were running a camp for tourists.... We crawled in under the fence in the storage area, crawled out with empty bottles, got the money in the shop for the empty bottles, bought icecream.... crawled in under the fence again.... got money, bought icecream, crawled in under... ok, you get the picture? A tiiiny bit off the edge of the normal ethic... But then again we were kids, and we were blinked out as suspect individuals when we had sold back a special german(?) beer bottle 3 times in the same day.... :p

[lazeyjack]

Ehhrmmm.... In those days I teamed up with a fella, his father were running a camp for tourists.... We crawled in under the fence in the storage area, crawled out with empty bottles, got the money in the shop for the empty bottles, bought icecream.... crawled in under the fence again.... got money, bought icecream, crawled in under... ok, you get the picture? A tiiiny bit off the edge of the normal ethic... But then again we were kids, and we were blinked out as suspect individuals when we had sold back a special german(?) beer bottle 3 times in the same day.... :p
Knut, took me back to my 12 year old days , (stole some empty bottles) from behind a barn, and took em to the pub, got about a shilling, 1958!! and my dad found out an whipped me soundly, it taught me a lesson, , that property was not mine

[lazeyjack]

ouch ,,,,got dinged for a personal attack on max,,,thought I was the one being attact .no skin off my ass , ,what the fact is I always sign my name to negative points,,ask lazy...or anyone else.
true true me boy

[lazeyjack]

I agree Longie, - - - It is not the points but the feeling someone who lacks any intestinal fortitude to type in a logical reason for the "displeasure" and to put their name/avatar to it.... - - Sadly this cretinous behaviour is becoming all to frequent....

That is why I have been advocating for the removal of the capacity to give NEGATIVE POINTS and promote the concept of posting in "open forum" any expressions of displeasure and request an edit of that part which seems to attract "offence", - - less rules to encourage better behaviour... :D:D:D

well before you came here, I wanted to scrap points because, it becomes ridiculous, points, shud only be given for real help, in boat building and design, not for posting ****, like many do, you have 600 points? what for? what have you ever done to help? , now look at par? or me? see my posts last months, mainly abt boatbuilding, but so many of you pricks hate me, pts stand still,
DO you EVER read the posts by Rick Willoughby, I think not cos if you did his points would be 1 fuckin million, and there are more like him
Really I have grown used to this, AND TAKEN IT FOR THE CRAP IT IS, and asked that prick Jeff to take me off, but he , knows he gets paid for quantity not quality and you know, said this before, he is NOT beyond telling who gave neg points. I have this in writing !
Then there was Bergalia, left this site cos of ****, and maybe I betray his confidence, but hell, some needs know
Some of you are so low, like 60 year old men posting about how there backside smells? for Gods sake.
If you get anom posts you sure as heck deserve it
And this is not particularly a personal attack on you, this site is your life,
For us whose profession it is, we do care abt points being given , in the spirit of boatbuilding, design

[Knut Sand]

Knut, took me back to my 12 year old days , (stole some empty bottles) from behind a barn, and took em to the pub, got about a shilling, 1958!!

What...?
Never knew that we were copycats, I always thought we were the real deal..:cool:

[Butch .H]

Lazy you can have my points bud( only 38 lost a few to Mass and his wind up monkey).Excellent post. Mas you want to take note 600 points for mainly telling us you are designing a boat and are about to unleash the experts on the desig and construction of the cat. Mass net time you give negatives be a man and sign your name.
Regards
Butch

[masalai]

"Oh ****", another pissing contest and I am supposed to be the bad guy..... I do not and have not found a method to "give myself points", so I suggest you set up a thread or ask in any thread something like "Why do you give points for a post?"..... I have not given and do not condone negative points.... LJack, I read the serious levels and mostly refrain from posting as I am keen to learn more without causing too much disruption, and I do express appreciation - which is - - it seems - - limited to a periodic allocation... It reflects on you seeing as how you have been a member for considerably longer than I..... Also think of the likes of Leo Lazarus, and so many other very helpful contributors to this net... You do not HAVE to inhabit the "dungeon"....

I have of occasion been given appreciation for helpfulness and reasoned advice that has been posted by those appreciating my input, but mostly for relief from life's tedium - - - most seem to be of the same "fraternity" as myself (grumpy old bastards who would rather be out cruising, but cannot because of some obligations we find ourselves committed to meeting)....

I give points for posts I appreciate the advice given or to people who deserve my appreciation but I cannot find the "deserving post" or because of their continuing general contribution.... It is a means of saying "thank you" and showing appreciation for the contributions of other members/participants, The same sort of thing I do and that one should do, in real life, face to face, and if the negatives honestly expressed their displeasure including self identification, I could not find a reason to object....

I have only received 4 "negatives" - one Frosty advised me of in a PM, the other 3 I can only guess at and NO reason given - sort of like the antisocial behavior seen on the streets where kids senselessly bash random victims for no good reason?

As a social community, living on this little roundish ball (or to the "flat-earthers" this flat slab). and the future is in "everyones hands" to make the place better by being nice or become extinct by being nasty - either attitude can be "infectious" - - - May your deity guide you in understanding and appreciation for others needs aspirations and hopes of / for a peaceful and pleasant life....

[Boston]

I just wrote a paper on this
you mentioned turtles
but I think most people are as of yet unaware how tragic the problem really is
among turtles as well as other oceanic species
for instance
twenty five or thirty years ago there were somewhere between 120 and 150 million green sea turtles swimming in the gulf of Mexico
today the estimated population is less than 30 thousand
it was thought they died as incidental catch and accidental boat strikes
turns out this is not the case
they mostly choked to death on plastic bags
we accidentally killed upwards of 150 million adults
and an estimated 400 million Juvenal's
with plastic bags

just for fun Ill include my latest paper on plastics
its not done
as I havnt gotten the references boiled down to the actual papers cited
nor has it seen the editor
but you may find it interesting
B

Glass Vs Plastic
Daniel J Robertson
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute, M.I.T., C.U. Boulder Co.

Abstract
In regards to plastics use in manufacturing when a glass alternative is available. Compare the manufacturing processes, disposal practices, recycling potential and toxic effects of both glass and plastic and there effects on our environment. Hypothesis, that the preponderance of plastic fragments and molecular plastic, plastic leachates, binders, bio-toxins, bio-toxin accumulators carcinogens and tarterogens hormone disruptors, endocrine disruptors, plastic by products and consequential post and preproduction waste in the environment and there harmful consequence are sufficient to offset any advantages over glass. All conclusions are substantiated in the body and noted.

conclusions glass
Both glass and glass waste are non toxic and stable in the environment giving off no harmful byproducts. Manufacturing of glass produces pollutants at the source of manufacturing and during materials acquisition, these pollutants can be controlled economically: various network modifiers used in the production of glass appear to play no significant pollution role. Chemically tempered glass is also inert. Lead used in the manufacture of decorative glass falls under the guidelines of EPCRA Section 313 and is exempt being stable with in the glass matrix. There has been a steady decline in pollutants produced pr ton of glass, mainly co2 , noX, soX . Glass is 100% recyclable

conclusions plastic
Plastic, plastic components, the production of plastic and plastic waste are mildly to extremely toxic all are environmentally detrimental , with results ranging from the release of strong carcinogens and tarterogens to the existence of bio-toxin accumulators and endocrine disruptors. five of the six most toxic and abundant chemical pollutants found in the environment are commonly associated with the production of plastics. Plastic photo-degrades releasing persistent toxins like Bisphenol A and Phthalates over extended periods of time. Plastic is non biodegradable and both the long chain and short chain plastic molecule appears to be permanent in the environment. Pollutants consisting of nurdles, leachates, fragmentary or hole plastic waste cannot be economically controlled. There has been an exponential rise in molecular plastic found throughout the worlds oceans. Animal deaths based on plastic ingestion number in the hundreds of millions with some extinction events and trophic cascades noted. Pollution pr ton of plastic produced appears to be increasing. Most plastic is non recyclable.

citation
Paul Goettlich 14dec01 the problem with plastic
Charles Moore and Miwa Tamanaha, Pelagic Plastic Task Force Organizers 11apr01
Plastic in the Sea - Paul Goettlich / Living Nutrition 5oct2005

Editor
This article is presently under development and will be edited upon its completion
( so dont come at me with spelling issues )

Copyright
This is an open-access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.

Funding
This research project has been Anonymously funded, the benefactor having no role in study design, data collections and analysis, decision to publish, or preparation of the manuscript

competing interests
the author confirms that no competing interests exist

Body
Environmental concerns over glass

Glass is made up of a few naturally abundant minerals, mostly silicate, and breaks down into natural, harmless components(3,6). Waste glass is environmentally neutral(3). The vast majority of pollution caused by the manufacturing of glass is source point and can be managed economically. Waste glass prepared for reuse, called Cullet is also inert and its increasing use as an aggregate means that it can be economically reused without the need for remanufacture (36). When remanufacturing is advantageous cullet reduces the level of emissions from the process by up to 40% (3,37) and the level of energy by as much as 30% (9,32,35). glass has an Embodied Energy of between 25.0 MJ/kg and 12.7 MJ/kg (1,4,30). and a density of 2470 kg/m3 (1). Glass is 100% recyclable (32). The U.S. glass recycling rate in 2003 was 19% (9) in 2001, for Australia 83%, Sweden: 84%, Germany: 87%, Belgium and Norway: 88%, Finland: 91% and Switzerland: 92% (9). Recycling one ton of glass saves nine to ten gallons of oil (9,32)


Environmental concerns over plastics

Plastic is made up of numerous petroleum based compounds, to produce 1 kg of Acrylic (PMMA, Polymethyl methacrylate) (23) 2 kg of petroleum is needed and up to 5 kg of toxic waist is generated (2,3). Plastic never breaks down but instead photo-degrades into some of the most hazardous petrochemical substances known to man (3,6,7,38). PMMA has an embodied energy of about 131.0MJ/kg with a density of 1180 kg/m3 (1,3,30). Although it is difficult to determine the exact production level of plastics per yr. 2007 estimates range from 100,000,000 to 205,000,000 tons (28,45) with an anual increase of 9.5% (45)
100,000,000,000 plastic bags are used each year in the u.s. alone (10)
the U.S recovery (recycling) rate for all plastics in 2005 was 1% (3,5,8,10)
In 2007 World wide, less than 3% is recovered (3,5,8).
In an EPA ranking of the twenty chemicals whose production generates the most total hazardous waste, five of the top six are chemicals commonly used by the plastic industry. (10)
recycling one ton of plastic saves 1000 gallons of oil (10,32)

Plastic as it photo-degrades releases binders like Phthalates, Bisphenol A, Nonyphenols and PBDEs along with countless other known carcinogens and teratogens (3,16,21,25,32). Once the binders are released, plastic remains as a large molecule(3,17). Dioxins are created both during production and incineration (2,3,16,17,31,32,46) dioxins are the strongest carcinogen known to man (3,5,6.7,31,38), The number of harmful chemicals associated with the production of plastic are to numerous to mention in this comparison, however; just one a primary component of acrylics ( mainly polycarbonates ) is bisphenol A (BPA), a hormone disrupter, that releases into food and liquid at room temperature(3,16,17,21,), it is considered a teratogen along with thalidomide and is known to cause embryonic malformations (3.8.16). Phthalates have been shown to cause genital malformations
In 1999 Plastic waste had outweighed plankton in our oceans 6 to 1, by 2002 the number had risen to 10/1 (3,10,11,16,17). The north pacific gyre alone, has a density of 14.8 million visible pieces of floating plastic per square mile, over an area twice the size of texas (3,11). Thats 1.9 pieces of plastic such as, bottles, bottle caps, lighters, beach palls, plastic packaging or plastic aquariums for every square foot of ocean surface spanning an area of 537,202 square miles (3,11). This is only one of six mid ocean gyre systems polluted to this extent (39). These areas of floating plastic range in size from twice the size of Texas to the size of Africa (3,11).
Plastic appears to have a half life longer than most radioactive compounds (3) with its use being required by the epa as containment packaging for low grade nuclear waist disposal (33,43). Polyethylene has been approved for the long term disposal of liquid radioactive waist (3,40,41,42) ( of course they also approved glass, tar and concrete ). The long chain plastic molecule is so durable that its half life is still being researched.
Plastic virtually never breaks down in the environment beyond the molecular level (3,7,11). We are stuck with every piece of plastic ever created (11). Unless collected and incinerated there is no getting rid of it. Remanufacture is not effective in halting plastics from leaching contaminates into there surroundings. There is little debate over the adverse effects of plastics to the marine environment (ref-all not one dissenting opinion as to plastics harmful effect on the marine ecosystem ), Various forms of marine life, eat so much plastic, mistaking plastic fragments for plankton that it has decimated our ocean communities (10,11,15,16,17,44). Filter feeders unable to distinguish between plastic molecules and plankton, ingest and include millions of tons of plastics into the food chain (3,7,10,11,16,17,32,44), leading to the contamination and eventual starvation of countless organisms (3,10,11,16,17,32,44).

additional comments
the cost of collecting, destroying or remanufacturing Plastic (as most plastic is uneconomical to remanufacture) “must” be endured no mater how high because of plastics highly toxic and enduring nature; were as the recycling of glass can be safely limited to its economic viability with out adverse environmental effects, as long as source point gaseous emissions are controlled. The embodied energy of acrylic is over ten times that of glass, making it both an economically and environmentally unsound alternative (3,5,14,32). The environmental impact of glass is minimal (3,6,32,36,).

references
1 ) Materials, geometry, and net energy ratio of tubular ...
2 ) http://www.mindfully.org/Berkeley/Berkeley-Plastics-Task-Force.htm
3 ) www.mindfully.org/Plastic/
4 ) measure of sustainability embodied energy
5 ) http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Best-Recycle-Plastic.htm
6 ) www.lotuslive.org/products/files/LLDrinkContainer01.pdf
7 ) www.fakeplasticfish.com/synthetic_sea_transcript.html
8 ) www.ecologycenter.org
9 ) Metro: Waste reduction fast facts: Glass
10 ) Metro: Waste reduction fast facts: Plastic
11 ) www.acfnewsource.org/environment/
12 ) www.fragmentsfromfloyd.com/ 2007/06/
13 ) NRC: Radioactive Waste
14 ) BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Warning on plastic's toxic threat
15 ) Keeping our ocean clean : Bradley Beach Today
16 ) Untitled Document
17 ) www.mountainfilm.org/downloads/docs/The_Plastic_Sea.pdf
18 ) www.visiongroup.co.uk/go.jsp?page=visiongroup_uk.compare comparison of glass and plastic
19 )http://www.firsttankguide.net/tanktype.php comparison of glass and acrylic
20 )www.stii.dost.gov.ph/pjsweb/data/decomposer.htm - 7k
21 ) http://archive.greenpeace.org/toxics/pvcdatabase/bad.html
22 ) http://www.epa.gov/chemfact/f_acrlac.txt
23 ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymethyl_methacrylate
24 ) http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5998554.html
25 ) http://www.npi.gov.au/database/substance-info/profiles/6.html
26 ) http://goalgreen.com/2007/06/25/plastic-the-gift-that-keeps-on-giving/
27 ) http://www.chemsoc.org/exemplarchem/entries/2004/bristol_whitehead/facts.htm
28 ) http://www.wasteonline.org.uk/resources/InformationSheets/Plastics.htm
29 ) www.level.org.nz
30 ) www.grisb.org/publications/pub33.htm - 24k -
31 ) http://www.environment.gov.au/settlements/publications/
32 ) GLASS vs. PLASTIC
33 ) RADIOACTIVE WASTE MANAGEMENT PROCEDURES FOR DUKE UNIVERSITY ...
34)http://www.devicelink.com/mpb/archive/96/01/001.html
http://www.environmentwriter.org/resources/backissues/chemicals/acrylicacid.htm
35 ) Fact Sheets - Glass
36 ) ftp://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/gsd/pdf/yrr_feb.pdf
37 ) Cullet Preheating: The Realistic Solution for All Glass Furnaces ...
38 ) Professional Environmental Solutions - Atlanta, Georgia
39 ) Patagonia Under Siege: The Plastic Killing Fields - Pacific Ocean ...
40 ) Composition and process for the encapsulation and stabilization of ...
41 ) APPENDIX D - Key Federal Laws and Regulations
42 ) Mixed-Waste Shipping & Transportation | Radiation Protection | US EPA
43 ) Low Level Radioactive Waste Information Page
44 ) DEP: Atlantic Green Sea Turtle Fact Sheet
45 ) Ulrich Reifenhäuser: Plastics and rubber have changed the world ...
46 ) Plastic Debris Washed Ashore
47 ) Bizarre Properties of Glass Revealed | LiveScience
48 ) Canada Likely to Label Plastic Ingredient ‘Toxic’ - New York Times

additional resources
http://www.epa.gov/epaoswer/non-hw/muncpl/
http://www.americanplasticscouncil.org/s_apc/sec.asp?TrackID=&CID=343&DID=1110&VID=86
http://www.mindfully.org/Berkeley-Plastics-Task-Force.htm
http://www.designboom.com/eng/education/pet/recycling.html
http://americanplasticscouncil.org/s_apc/sec.asp
http://www.epa.gov/epaoswer/non-hw/muncpl/glass.htm
http://www.epa.gov/grtlakes/seahome/housewaste/src/glass.htm
http://www.cityofmadison.com/streets/plastic.html

White, R; Jobling, S; Hoare, SA; Sumpter, JP; Parker, MG. Environmentally persistent alkylphenolic compounds are estrogenic. Endocrinology, 135, 175-182 (1994).
Tyler, CR; Jobling, S; Sumpter, JP. Endocrine disruption in wildlife: a critical review of the evidence. Critical Reviews in Toxicology, 28, 319-361 (1998).
Soto, A.M., Justica, H. Wray, J.W., Sonnenschein, C. p-Nonyl-phenol: an estrogenic xenobiotic released from "modified" polystyrene. Environ. Health Perspect. 92, 167-173 (1991).
Sonnenschein, C; Soto, AM. An updated review of environmental estrogen and androgen mimics and antagonists. J. Steroid Biochem. & Molec. Biol. 65, 143-150 (1998).
Mato, Y., Isoibe, T., Takada, H., Kanehiro, H., Ohtake, C, Kaminuma, T. Plastic resin pellets as a transport medium for toxic chemicals in the marine environment. Environ. Sci. Technol. 35, 318-324 (2001).
Kelce, WR; Stone, CR; Laws, SC; Gray, LE; Kemppainen, JA; Wilson, EM. Persistent DDT metabolite p,p'-DDE is a potent androgen receptor antagonist. Nature 375, 581-585 (1995).
Sumpter, JP; Jobling, S. Vitellogenesis as a biomarker for estrogenic contamination of the aquatic environment. Environmental Health Perspectives 103, Suppl 7, 173-184 (1995).
Kuiper GGJM, Carlsson B, Grandien K, Enmark E, Haggblad J, Nilsson S, Gustafsson J-A. Comparison of the ligand binding specificity and transcript tissue distribution of estrogen receptors ? and ?. Endocrinology 138, 863-870 (1997).
Kuiper, GGJM., Lemmen, J.G., Carlsson, B., Corton, J.C., Safe, S.H., van der Saag, P.T.,van der Burg, B., Gustafsson, J-A. Interaction of estrogenic chemicals and phytoestrogens with estrogen receptor ?. Endocrinology 139, 4252-4263 (1998).
Baker ME, Sklar DH, Terry LS, Hedges MR. Diethyl Pyrocarbonate, a histidine selective reagent, inhibits estrogen binding to receptor protein in rat uterus cytosol. Biochem. Int. 11, 233-238 (1985).
Baker ME, Terry LS. Diethylpyrocarbonate, a histidine selective reagent, inhibits progestin binding to chick oviduct cytosol. Steroids 42, 593-60 (1983).
Nagel, SC; vom Saal, FS; Welshons, WV. Developmental effects of estrogenic chemicals are predicted by an in vitro assay incorporating modification of cell uptake by serum. J. Steroid Biochem. & Molec. Biol. 69, 343-357 (1999).
Baker, M.E. Adrenal and sex steroid receptor evolution: environmental implications. J. Molec. Endocrinol. 26, 119-225 (2001).
Bakun, A. and Weeks, S. (2004). Greenhouse gas buildup, sardines, submarine eruptions and the possibility of abrupt degradation of intense marine upwelling ecosystems Ecology Letters 7: 1015-1023.

»
Weeks S. J., Currie B. and A. Bakun (2002). Satellite identification of massive hydrogen sulphide emissions in the southeastern Atlantic Ocean. Nature 415: 493-494.

Myers, R. A, J.K. Baum, T.D. Shepherd, S. P. Powers, C. H. Peterson (2007) Cascading effects of the loss of apex predatory sharks from a coastal ocean, Science 315(5820): 1846-1850.

[the1much]

good 1 Boston,,,,hehe ,,,,;)

[Butch .H]

Maxim Projet .You said what?

[FAST FRED]

In 1999 Plastic waste had outweighed plankton in our oceans 6 to 1, by 2002 the number had risen to 10/


Sounds like its time for some genetic engineering ,

15lb shrimp that live on plastic sound about right.

FF

[Boston]

actually what seems to happen is that even though various marine organisms are swimming in a sea of food they starve to death
as they are not designed to differentiate between a plastic fragment or molecule and plankton
so they eat both
as of 2002 that would be 10 plastic to 1 plankton

also plastic nurdles which resemble copapod's in both color, size and shape
are bio-toxin accumulators
that creates a situation were toxins are concentrated in the food chain
under epa standards the average polar bears flesh is so heavily saturated with persistent toxins that it falls well into the boundaries of hazardous waist
along with Killer Whales
and the fda has issued a recommendation that inuit woman not breast feed there babies due to the fact they are so heavily contaminated as well
although the epa has been strangely silent over studies concerning human contamination

basically
there doesnt seem to be a way to clean it up
Im afraid the numbers in the slide show were in error
significantly
on the low side
by some estimates we have dumped 60.000.000.000 tons of plastic into the oceans already
on some beaches ocean debris is 85% plastic
on a molecular level there is literally a snow storm of plastic
throughout the worlds oceans

even plastic water bottles are about to have an expiration date
as the polycarbonate leaches such high concentrations of toxins into the water with in about six months as to make it hazardous to drink

and Canada is in the process of banning polycarbonate s from food contact
although pvc is the worst one

sorry
I went on and on
but this subject is near and dear to me
as I plan to retire to a yacht Ive been planning for years
B

and bonna petit

[lazeyjack]

bosten you care,, , so much you did all that research, I dont usually reveal where I put points , but you have mine

[Boston]

thanks
I always wanted to retire on the water
I grew up there
its kinda my home
to see what has happened there is beyond tragic

Im hoping there will be a plastics settlement similar to the mine reclamation act and the cigarette settlement
the plastics industry knew all about this stuff way back in the fifties
they should be made to clean up there mess

brings me to tears

[plankton]

The results of a morning's beach clean at Midway Atoll, 1200 miles NW of Hawaii. The atoll supports the world's largest population of Laysan Albatross, nearly 71% or thereabouts, and cigarette lighters claim the lives of many. This, on a small island far removed from civilization, demonstrates only too well the long-term effect mankind can have on the oceans and their gyre currents.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a25/RoddyHays/BeachJunk1.jpg

Here's a good general news-story that will help explain to those who have difficulty comprehending - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6218698.stm . I think this may be the link Boston is missing in his list.

Boston, I'd give you lots of points, but don't know how to, and really don't care. I suspect you don't either........ great post and thanks for the information and links.

[Boston]

brings me to tears

[masalai]

No wonder the septics have problems lost their balls.... :D:D:D? or in the case of "Midway" - asians?

[lazeyjack]

you dont HAVE to try trivialise EVERY thread with silly attempts at jokes you know,
this is a place I camped TURKEY, Bosperous(sp), same in greece, not asians, plastic.

[the1much]

that was the pic you put up earlier isnt it lazy?,,,,the 1 that started the "real fishermen" debate,,,,,,again with me being an @sshole,,,as i was told,,hehehehehe ;)

[masalai]

Flotsam & Jetsam is a global problem and talking don't fix it. Where I go, if I see some and have the means to effect proper disposal I do..... Talk is trivializing the problem.......

Good day sir....

[lazeyjack]

that was the pic you put up earlier isnt it lazy?,,,,the 1 that started the "real fishermen" debate,,,,,,again with me being an @sshole,,,as i was told,,hehehehehe ;)
YES MAYBE MUCHELY, BUT i DID NOT SEE THE REAL FISHERAMN DEBATE
Was a beautiful spot, the ships 15 at a time going past, its very narrow there
I have never called anyone names here, in any forum,, just sometimes get tired of the constant referral to various parts of male anotomy below belt Like school boy stuff from grown men

[the1much]

ya after you posted it ( back then ) i said something about idiots,,,,,then someone said their friend was a fisherman, and he watched him throw trash overboard,,,,,,i told him his friend wasnt a REAL fisherman,,,,hehe,,,,,and then off it went,,,to my "pet" names,,hahaha :D;)

[lazeyjack]

ya after you posted it ( back then ) i said something about idiots,,,,,then someone said their friend was a fisherman, and he watched him throw trash overboard,,,,,,i told him his friend wasnt a REAL fisherman,,,,hehe,,,,,and then off it went,,,to my "pet" names,,hahaha :D;)

no he was not a real anything
I built a charter fishing boat for a guy, we got to be good mates
One day we went fishing,
well you know those sooty shearwaters(mutton birds in NZ) they like to dive down take you your bait, well this guy waits til one swims up and then beats it half to death with his rod, I was nearly ill,
Dont speak to him now
we have saying
Its our playground, but their world-

[the1much]

Its our playground, but their world-
exactly! ;)

[brian eiland]

...courtesy of - latitude / ld


The Great Pacific Garbage Patch is purported to be an enormous — some estimates say twice the size of Texas — raft of, well, junk that's caught in the North Pacific Gyre. Sensational news reports make it sound as if the Patch is dense enough for a person to walk across but that has yet to be proved. What can't be denied is that plastic is a growing problem in the world's oceans that really can no longer be ignored. Several returning Solo TransPac and Pacific Cup boats have reported a disturbing amount of plastic floating around mid-Pacific. "We're seeing some kind of plastic going by every 30 seconds or so," reported Solo TransPac racer Rob Tryon. "About half of it is fishing related — netting, floats, etc. — but the other half is definitely land-based garbage: bottles, toys, baby dolls." Those kind of firsthand accounts really bring home the need to rethink our 'disposable' ways.

Dr. Marcus Eriksen and Joel Paschal have been 'sailing' Junk across the Pacific to raise awareness of the Great Pacific Garbage Patch.
© 2008 Algalita Marine Research Foundation / www.algalita.org

[the1much]

i was gonna post that a while ago,,, but figured if i did,,, they'd end up in a storm,, with their "raft" coming apart,, therefore,, ADDING to the trash pile.
hehehe :D;)

[brian eiland]

Discovered by a sailor in 1997, the 'Great Pacific Garbage Patch' or 'trash vortex' that floats around in oceanic gyres is now of great interest to scientists, biologists, weather forecasters and marine researchers for the information it reveals about ocean currents.

There is a soup of waste – humanity’s flotsam and debris – literally clogging the Pacific Ocean. Experts say it’s growing at an alarming rate and now covers an area twice the size of the USA. This floating rubbish dump stretches from Hawaii almost to Japan and is held in place by swirling underwater currents.

Charles Moore, an American oceanographer who discovered the phenomenon and coined the phrases 'Great Pacific Garbage Patch' or 'trash vortex', believes that about 100 million tons of flotsam are circulating in the region.

Marcus Eriksen, a research director of the US-based Algalita Marine Research Foundation, which Moore founded, describes it as 'a plastic soup'.

'It moves around and when it comes close to land, as it does at the Hawaiian archipelago, the results are dramatic. The garbage patch barfs, and you get a beach covered with this confetti of plastic.'

About one-fifth of the stuff is thrown off ships or oil platforms. The rest has been discarded from the land.

Moore, a former sailor, first encountered the rubbish in 1997, while taking a short cut home from a Los Angeles to Hawaii yacht race. He had steered his craft into the 'North Pacific gyre', a vortex where the ocean circulates slowly because of little wind and extreme high pressure systems.

Gobsmacked by its magnitude, Moore, the heir to a family fortune from the oil industry, was inspired to sell his business interests and become an environmental activist. These days he warns people that unless consumers cut back on their use of disposable plastics, the plastic stew will double in size over the next decade.

In the past, rubbish that ended up in oceanic gyres has biodegraded. But modern plastics are so durable that objects half-a-century old have been found in the north Pacific dump.

Moore said that because the sea of rubbish is translucent and lies just below the water's surface, it is not detectable in satellite photographs. 'You only see it from the bows of ships,' he said.

Worldwide, about 10,000 cargo containers fall overboard each year. In most parts of the world, the dispersal of flotsam isn't of major interest to researchers. But along the busy trade routes that link eastern Asia to North America, the random rubbish and containers that drop off ships are showing scientists precisely how the Pacific Subarctic Gyre works.

Despite thousands of scientific instruments dotted around our oceans, when it comes to measuring surface currents, scientists have been limited by their equipment. Satellite-monitored probes called Argo floats drift through the ocean at depths of about 2 kilometers. Every 10 days or so, they pop up to measure the overlying water's temperature and salinity.

However, the direction and speed of deep currents, where these high-tech probes spend most of their time, don't necessarily match those of currents in the top few metres or centimeters of ocean. The path of an Argo float provides little information about surface currents.

Then there are probes specifically designed to ride surface currents. These face their own problems. Their sensors can quickly become obstructed by algae, barnacles, and other organisms that thrive in the sunlit section of the ocean.
On top of all that, probes use batteries that fail within months, only allowing them to travel a small fraction of the path around the gyre.

Now, to map the currents and clock their speeds, scientists are harnessing the power of floating junk. For the first time, scientists can estimate that a lap around the Pacific Subarctic Gyre takes approximately three years. From that and other studies of the circulating trash, researchers have noticed long-term variations in water temperature and salinity in the North Pacific that hadn't been observed previously.

Research aside, the consequences of this massive bundle of plastic debris are negative. Plastic is believed to constitute 90 per cent of all rubbish floating in the oceans. The UN Environment Program estimated in 2006 that every square mile of ocean contains 46,000 pieces of floating plastic. The group states that plastic waste causes the deaths of more than a million seabirds every year, as well as more than 100,000 marine mammals.

And not all plastic floats. Around 70 per cent of the junk sinks to the bottom, stifling the sea bed, killing organisms and messing with the food chain. In fact around 70 percent of discarded plastic sinks to the bottom. Dutch scientists have counted around 110 pieces of litter for every square kilometre of the seabed, a staggering 600,000 tonnes in the North Sea alone.

Our plastic waste poses a risk to our health too. What goes into the ocean goes into the food chain and eventually onto your dinner plate. Hundreds of millions of tiny plastic pellets, known as 'nurdles' - the raw materials for the plastic industry - are lost or spilled every year, working their way into the sea. These pollutants act as chemical sponges attracting man-made chemicals such as hydrocarbons and the pesticide DDT.

The North Pacific gyre is one of five major ocean gyres and it is possible that this Trash Vortex problem is one which is present in other oceans as well. The Sargasso Sea is a well known slow circulation area in the Atlantic, and research there has also demonstrated high concentrations of plastic particles present in the water.

Greenpeace warns that floating plastics can also affect marine ecosystems in yet another way: by providing a ready surface for organisms to live on. These plants and animals are then transported far outside their normal habitat to invade new habitats and become potential nuisance species.

('There have been pieces of plastic washed and dredged up that are more than 50 years old.')

More at www.greenpeace.org

[Boston]

that last bit about plastics effecting marine ecosystems was so vastly understated it makes me just want to give up and stay inland

plastic outweighs plankton in the oceans by about 10/1 these days
that means that marine organisms designed to filter plankton are getting about ten bits of plankton sized plastic for each actual bit of plankton they consume
they are in many cases starving to death in a sea of plastic fragments
the environmental toll is extraordinary

once upon a time
maybe twenty years ago
150 million green sea turtles swam in the gulf of Mexico
today
they are nearly extinct
why
they choked to death on plastic bags
the total volume of biomass of those turtles was the equivalant of every mammal on the continent of Africa
combined

yet the previous missive
for as good as it was
left it to the last paragraph and a mention of
nuisance species

we are the nuisance species kids
the day we learn that
is the day things start getting better around here

my sympathies to our kids
they are going to be really pissed off at us
when they figure out what we've done to this place
B

[Hondaen]

I do not take this serious.

There are plastic bags that have a lifespane of 1 month if wasted in the nature. Use rather them, than rising the taxes. The cost is close to zero. If you burn them, they release the C02 they holded up when they was made.

I live in Norway. A wannabe enviromental friendly country. We sell oil and gas, make big money. In order to lighten our conciousness, our politicans use cheap trix, like this plastic bag case.

Realy. How big problem is this plastic bag case? I cant see anyone flopin around in my country in the nature, or anywhere else for that mater. They are used to desposal of waste, almost to 95% in Norway.

To fix this "problem", use bio-degradeable plastic bags (yes they exist). Dont fool the public with stupid politic correctnes and raised taxes.

[Boston]

yes bio degradable plastic exists
it is seldom used and significantly more expensive
so
industry wont use it
and we end up stuck with immortal plastic

feel free to refute any or all portions of the following
I would be very interested in what you have to say

Plastic is made up of numerous petroleum based compounds, to produce 1 kg of Acrylic (PMMA, Polymethyl methacrylate) (23) 2 kg of petroleum is needed and up to 5 kg of toxic waist is generated (2,3). Plastic never breaks down but instead photo-degrades into some of the most hazardous petrochemical substances known to man (3,6,7,38). PMMA has an embodied energy of about 131.0MJ/kg with a density of 1180 kg/m3 (1,3,30). Although it is difficult to determine the exact production level of plastics per yr. 2007 estimates range from 100,000,000 to 205,000,000 tons (28,45) with an anual increase of 9.5% (45) 
100,000,000,000 plastic bags are used each year in the u.s. alone (10)
the U.S recovery (recycling) rate for all plastics in 2005 was 1% (3,5,8,10)
In 2007 World wide, less than 3% is recovered (3,5,8).
In an EPA ranking of the twenty chemicals whose production generates the most total hazardous waste, five of the top six are chemicals commonly used by the plastic industry. (10)
recycling one ton of plastic saves 1000 gallons of oil (10,32)

Plastic as it photo-degrades releases binders like Phthalates, Bisphenol A, Nonyphenols and PBDEs along with countless other known carcinogens and teratogens (3,16,21,25,32). Once the binders are released, plastic remains as a large molecule(3,17). Dioxins are created both during production and incineration (2,3,16,17,31,32,46) dioxins are the strongest carcinogen known to man (3,5,6.7,31,38), The number of harmful chemicals associated with the production of plastic are to numerous to mention in this comparison, however; just one a primary component of acrylics ( mainly polycarbonates ) is bisphenol A (BPA), a hormone disrupter, that releases into food and liquid at room temperature(3,16,17,21,), it is considered a teratogen along with thalidomide and is known to cause embryonic malformations (3.8.16). Phthalates have been shown to cause genital malformations
In 1999 Plastic waste had outweighed plankton in our oceans 6 to 1, by 2002 the number had risen to 10/1 (3,10,11,16,17). The north pacific gyre alone, has a density of 14.8 million visible pieces of floating plastic per square mile, over an area twice the size of texas (3,11). Thats 1.9 pieces of plastic such as, bottles, bottle caps, lighters, beach palls, plastic packaging or plastic aquariums for every square foot of ocean surface spanning an area of 537,202 square miles (3,11). This is only one of six mid ocean gyre systems polluted to this extent (39). These areas of floating plastic range in size from twice the size of Texas to the size of Africa (3,11).
Plastic appears to have a half life longer than most radioactive compounds (3) with its use being required by the epa as containment packaging for low grade nuclear waist disposal (33,43). Polyethylene has been approved for the long term disposal of liquid radioactive waist (3,40,41,42) ( of course they also approved glass, tar and concrete ). The long chain plastic molecule is so durable that its half life is still being researched.
Plastic virtually never breaks down in the environment beyond the molecular level (3,7,11). We are stuck with every piece of plastic ever created (11). Unless collected and incinerated there is no getting rid of it. Remanufacture is not effective in halting plastics from leaching contaminates into there surroundings. There is little debate over the adverse effects of plastics to the marine environment (ref-all not one dissenting opinion as to plastics harmful effect on the marine ecosystem ), Various forms of marine life, eat so much plastic, mistaking plastic fragments for plankton that it has decimated our ocean communities (10,11,15,16,17,44). Filter feeders unable to distinguish between plastic molecules and plankton, ingest and include millions of tons of plastics into the food chain (3,7,10,11,16,17,32,44), leading to the contamination and eventual starvation of countless organisms (3,10,11,16,17,32,44). 
 
additional comments 
the cost of collecting, destroying or remanufacturing Plastic (as most plastic is uneconomical to remanufacture) “must” be endured no mater how high because of plastics highly toxic and enduring nature; were as the recycling of glass can be safely limited to its economic viability with out adverse environmental effects, as long as source point gaseous emissions are controlled. The embodied energy of acrylic is over ten times that of glass, making it both an economically and environmentally unsound alternative (3,5,14,32). The environmental impact of glass is minimal (3,6,32,36,). 

references
1 ) Materials, geometry, and net energy ratio of tubular ...
2 ) http://www.mindfully.org/Berkeley/Berkeley-Plastics-Task-Force.htm
3 ) www.mindfully.org/Plastic/
4 ) measure of sustainability embodied energy
5 ) http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Best-Recycle-Plastic.htm
6 ) www.lotuslive.org/products/files/LLDrinkContainer01.pdf
7 ) www.fakeplasticfish.com/synthetic_sea_transcript.html
8 ) www.ecologycenter.org
9 ) Metro: Waste reduction fast facts: Glass
10 ) Metro: Waste reduction fast facts: Plastic
11 ) www.acfnewsource.org/environment/
12 ) www.fragmentsfromfloyd.com/ 2007/06/
13 ) NRC: Radioactive Waste
14 ) BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Warning on plastic's toxic threat
15 ) Keeping our ocean clean : Bradley Beach Today
16 ) Untitled Document
17 ) www.mountainfilm.org/downloads/docs/The_Plastic_Sea.pdf
18 ) www.visiongroup.co.uk/go.jsp?page=visiongroup_uk.compare comparison of glass and plastic
19 )http://www.firsttankguide.net/tanktype.php comparison of glass and acrylic
20 )www.stii.dost.gov.ph/pjsweb/data/decomposer.htm - 7k
21 ) http://archive.greenpeace.org/toxics/pvcdatabase/bad.html
22 ) http://www.epa.gov/chemfact/f_acrlac.txt
23 ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymethyl_methacrylate
24 ) http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5998554.html
25 ) http://www.npi.gov.au/database/substance-info/profiles/6.html
26 ) http://goalgreen.com/2007/06/25/plastic-the-gift-that-keeps-on-giving/
27 ) http://www.chemsoc.org/exemplarchem/entries/2004/bristol_whitehead/facts.htm
28 ) http://www.wasteonline.org.uk/resources/InformationSheets/Plastics.htm
29 ) www.level.org.nz
30 ) www.grisb.org/publications/pub33.htm - 24k -
31 ) http://www.environment.gov.au/settlements/publications/
32 ) GLASS vs. PLASTIC
33 ) RADIOACTIVE WASTE MANAGEMENT PROCEDURES FOR DUKE UNIVERSITY ...
34)http://www.devicelink.com/mpb/archive/96/01/001.html
http://www.environmentwriter.org/resources/backissues/chemicals/acrylicacid.htm
35 ) Fact Sheets - Glass
36 ) ftp://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/gsd/pdf/yrr_feb.pdf
37 ) Cullet Preheating: The Realistic Solution for All Glass Furnaces ...
38 ) Professional Environmental Solutions - Atlanta, Georgia
39 ) Patagonia Under Siege: The Plastic Killing Fields - Pacific Ocean ...
40 ) Composition and process for the encapsulation and stabilization of ...
41 ) APPENDIX D - Key Federal Laws and Regulations
42 ) Mixed-Waste Shipping & Transportation | Radiation Protection | US EPA
43 ) Low Level Radioactive Waste Information Page
44 ) DEP: Atlantic Green Sea Turtle Fact Sheet
45 ) Ulrich Reifenhäuser: Plastics and rubber have changed the world ...
46 ) Plastic Debris Washed Ashore
47 ) Bizarre Properties of Glass Revealed | LiveScience
48 ) Canada Likely to Label Plastic Ingredient ‘Toxic’ - New York Times

additional resources
http://www.epa.gov/epaoswer/non-hw/muncpl/
http://www.americanplasticscouncil.org/s_apc/sec.asp?TrackID=&CID=343&DID=1110&VID=86
http://www.mindfully.org/Berkeley-Plastics-Task-Force.htm
http://www.designboom.com/eng/education/pet/recycling.html
http://americanplasticscouncil.org/s_apc/sec.asp
http://www.epa.gov/epaoswer/non-hw/muncpl/glass.htm
http://www.epa.gov/grtlakes/seahome/housewaste/src/glass.htm
http://www.cityofmadison.com/streets/plastic.html

White, R; Jobling, S; Hoare, SA; Sumpter, JP; Parker, MG. Environmentally persistent alkylphenolic compounds are estrogenic. Endocrinology, 135, 175-182 (1994).
Tyler, CR; Jobling, S; Sumpter, JP. Endocrine disruption in wildlife: a critical review of the evidence. Critical Reviews in Toxicology, 28, 319-361 (1998).
Soto, A.M., Justica, H. Wray, J.W., Sonnenschein, C. p-Nonyl-phenol: an estrogenic xenobiotic released from "modified" polystyrene. Environ. Health Perspect. 92, 167-173 (1991).
 Sonnenschein, C; Soto, AM. An updated review of environmental estrogen and androgen mimics and antagonists. J. Steroid Biochem. & Molec. Biol. 65, 143-150 (1998).
Mato, Y., Isoibe, T., Takada, H., Kanehiro, H., Ohtake, C, Kaminuma, T. Plastic resin pellets as a transport medium for toxic chemicals in the marine environment. Environ. Sci. Technol. 35, 318-324 (2001).
Kelce, WR; Stone, CR; Laws, SC; Gray, LE; Kemppainen, JA; Wilson, EM. Persistent DDT metabolite p,p'-DDE is a potent androgen receptor antagonist. Nature 375, 581-585 (1995).
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[masalai]

WOW - - Thanks Boston, I have bookmarked this as a key resource

[Boston]

its part of a paper I wrote a short while ago

comparing plastic to glass

its not the finish version and Im not sure I can even send you that as its looking like it will get published
I dont know if it will be public access or not so there are restrictions from the publishing house I must adhere to
but Im sure I can use the rough drafts

its one reason why; since I do actually get published from time to time,
that I was so pissed off at those other guys when they said they were going to write a paper on someone elses work
you just dont do that
ever
its about as low as it gets to hijack someone elses work like that
it flies in the face of every ethics consideration to do so
besides
cant you think of your own work
rather than "borrow" someone elses

[Hondaen]

What I have to say?

I have never said ordinary plastic bags are a good thing.

Here in Norway, a plastic bag at our mal cost like 0.2$. We can choose, a ordinary one, or a bio-degradeable plastic for 0.25$ That is not a "drastic" increase in price..

Solution is simple. Ban ordinary plastic bags.

Ofcourse it is hard to bring it out in life. So, you guys can use your strawbag or whatever, I choose the bio-degradeable and live happy ;)

[Boston]

the Gokstad ship is incredible

[masalai]

Hondaen, It (your plastic bags) may "bio-degrade" into something else - - usually still very bad for the environment at least but probably still very toxic, it is just that human eyes do not see it as the particles are small and mostly sink &/or are eaten by other lifeforms which as a consequence then die (no food for us) or ingest the toxicity and we eat them or what consumed them to in turn ingest the toxins - not good...

[Hondaen]

Yes it is :)

It is built for seaworthiness. It dont have the famous and more sleek design as the Oseberg ship. But the Oseberg ship is made for showoff. Not sailing in heavy sea.

the Gokstad ship is incredible

[Frosty]

Very handy those Nowegian ships, popping across to the Engles land for a bit o raping and oh all sorts of stuff,--jolly good ole time.


Fortunately for the Engles most of them didnt make it across the treacherous North sea. A mere small sea I know but has a terrible temper and sometimes ,--just sometimes you may cross by gods good grace.

Many floundered with all hands, Good job for the Engles.

What were you saying about seaworthy?

[Boston]

I lived on cape cod for years and years
sailed between the Bay of Fundy and Long island often usually in nothing more than 30'
I have seen what a northeaster rolling in looks like and its a wake up call
the Scandinavian sailing tradition is amazing
those folks ventured out on the open sea in an era when the English wouldn't leave the site of land
the English learned a lot from the Scandinavians and that knowledge is what made em the sea power they were for so long

[Frosty]

Scandi sea power,-- when was that then?

I know they make Volvos and Abba lives there ,- but sea power?


By the way I was'nt talking Cape Cod,--I was talking the North sea.

Thats were oil rigs are, 100feet off the sea yet still get wiped out

[Boston]

my bad
I hear north sea
and I think of the north Atlantic
and the storms that would roll down the eastern sea board

[Hondaen]

Sorry for allt his off topic text.

Most of the vikings was farmers. Some of them, explored the world. They traveled f.ex to north america, greenland, baltic sea into russia down the rivers to turkey and throug the mediteranian up north to norway. You can find all sorts of art from africa, turkey, russia and so on in norwegian viking graves.

Yes some of them raped and stole goods. Who didnt. Brits are also known to colonize and bring back goods and slaves. That is not what I want do discuss. I`m into ship design, not politics :D

They are known to be good sailors and shipbuilders. They know what they where doing. They did not cross the north sea in the winter, with good reason. That was spring and summer activties.

I doubt your claim that their ships sunk on their way to england in huge numbers. It is not written down anywhere in any text. And their ships are proven to be very seaworty.

In late 1800, a norwegian built a replica of the Gokstad ship. He sailed it from Bergen/Norway to New York with no problem. Today it is displayed in Chicago.

Very handy those Nowegian ships, popping across to the Engles land for a bit o raping and oh all sorts of stuff,--jolly good ole time.


Fortunately for the Engles most of them didnt make it across the treacherous North sea. A mere small sea I know but has a terrible temper and sometimes ,--just sometimes you may cross by gods good grace.

Many floundered with all hands, Good job for the Engles.

What were you saying about seaworthy?

[Frosty]

We are in danger of discussing seaworthy --again. It is well known that most wrecks at the bottom are Oh just another ole viking ship.

The wreck is of more importance to its bounty that to its hull

The fact that some made these long journeys is more to the experience of the sailor than the boat , as is very much the case of any boat.

Your dead right about crossing the North sea in summer,---Oh boy.

[messabout]

I can not believe that I have just read the entire content of this thread. Brians original premise is too important to ignore. Bostons input, smashing. I have respect for academics including marine biologists, let us reserve some respect for Longliner and other fishermen too. The thread weaved in and out of topic but kept coming back to center.

I have been a volunteer boater in my inland Florida waters, for the purpose of picking up shoreline and waterborne trash. Local groups do cleanups periodically. The amount of trash that we take from a 1000 acre lake, in one day, is mind boggling. Literally tons of it. Plastic is one of the major offenders but there are plenty of other kinds of trash that does not belong in our waters. Beer cans, cigarette butts (tens of thousands of them), McDonald wrappers, and often enough, old tires, abandoned refrigerators, condoms, mattresses, and God knows what else. What are we thinking? We are poisoning our own wells. No, the people in my area are not all ill bred troglodytes. Some of them are entirely intelligent people who still discard trash as if there is no consequence.

Hey, I did not know that there is a points system for forum participants. Are you guys pulling my leg? I reckon I'd better mind my manners.

There is a very nice article in the January edition of Wooden Boat Magazine. It concerns the building and sailing/rowing of a viking ship. The trip from Ireland to Denmark is described in detail as are the structural features of the authenticly constructed boat. Some of the crew consisted of marine biologists and probably a few fishermen too. Interesting read. Now back to the plastic scourge please.

[Boston]

you would like Joshua Slokum's book

[brian eiland]

...from another forum by Stevenpet

A few weeks ago I was Google Earthing the Hawaiian Islands Archipelago and came across the Papahānaumokuākea Marine National Monument website at http://hawaiireef.noaa.gov/ I spent several evenings reading about the atolls and the islands.

One article specifically addressed the issue of plastics and marine life on the atolls at. It’s a good read and is written for the general public and is low in technical jargon:
http://www.hawaiianatolls.org/research/June2006/albatross_death.php (http://www.hawaiianatolls.org/research/June2006/albatross_death.php)

It was disheartening to see that several other island are more plastics-infected than Midway. How can we protect these islands from plastics? Do we need to send frequent plastics-foraging groups. Yet since the birds gather food far away from the island and return with it to feed their young, would that really solve the problem at all.


In a perfect world untainted by man, our chick’s diet would consist of fish and fish eggs, squid, and octopus. Yet in our world and the “age of plastics” the chick will likely be fed some amazing indigestible, synthetic products.

On July 1, 2006, Cynthia Vanderlip conducted a necropsy of a chick that had expired a few hours previous. The “chick” had a wing spread of 5 to 6 feet and weighed approximately 5 lbs. The contents of the bird’s stomach amazed and shocked the teachers and scientists. The dead chick was severely impacted and literally full of plastics. Some pieces were approximately 6 inches long and several were sharp and jagged. We could conclusively state this bird was killed by the plastic debris because of the observed puncture in the lining of the proventriculus. We removed the plastic from our bird and counted an excess of 306 pieces of plastic!!!

Although a chick may be fed plastics, once they reach fledgling age they are usually able to regurgitate the indigestible material and cleanse their bodies of the plastic. However, if the pieces are too large or in this case, large, sharp and piercing, the bird may die an agonizing death; totally impacted and/or the lining punctured. As we walked the paths of Green Island we observed many young dead albatross. After viewing this incredible necropsy we contemplate how many of these young birds may have met a similar fate to the one we necropsied. Our specimen was chosen at random, selected only because we realized it had died within the last few hours ...more here: http://www.hawaiianatolls.org/research/June2006/albatross_death.php

[Boston]

I have pictures of skeletons with chest cavities full of plastic
but I felt like shock therapy was not the way to go
but
some people will benefit from your picture
and so I respect your decision to post it

Ild like to see a plastics settlement similar to the cigarette settlement
that can be used to clean up plastics waste

the plastics industry can easily be proven to have known that plastics in the marine environment cause severe degradation to the food chain and act as a bio accumulator thus concentrating pollutants
in the light of the obvious threat to the ecosystem
the plastics industry must be held accountable

[marshmat]

There is a beach on the western end of Lake Ontario where much of the detritus and garbage from that area washes up in certain types of storms. The number of bald tires is astounding, but the amount of plastic even more so. And yet this beach is still fairly clean- it's like an operating room when compared to many other countries, or to that floating heap of trash in the central Pacific that is, by some reports, over 500 km wide now.

In related news, the city of Toronto is now planning not to ban plastic bags, but to require stores that use them to charge the customers individually for the cost of the bags. Seeing a small (5c) but very obvious line on the bill for each plastic bag used- and having to ask the clerk for bags- is expected to cut down substantially on their use. We'll see if (a) it passes, and (b) it works, in a few months.

[masalai]

Speaking of plastics, does that include Paris?

[Boston]

heathen's and blasphemers
I am surrounded by heathen's and blasphemers


Canada has actually been a leader in banning epoxy coated cans from food use and in banning Bisphenol A containing plastics from food contact as well
so its not surprising to hear they are charging 4 plastic bags

[masalai]

Boston, You are soooo lucky - it is a rather slow day :D:D:D:D and I hope it makes you feel just that little bit better:D:D

[Boston]

nope she didnt even write me back
it was sooooo depressing

[masalai]

Nah, being surrounded by heathens and blasphemers.... the "rose amongst the thorns" syndrome....

[Boston]

once upon a time she would have leaped at the opportunity :(

[masalai]

till she went and did that bit of porno, - then on I give no respect....

[Boston]

granted I never want truly bad girl
but I think what her sister said covered it best
it was intended as a private bit
and was never intended for the public
the idea that some fool betrayed that trust
is what sucks about it
not the idea that she is silly enough to give it a go
hell
we have all done things that later could be described as mistakes
but at the time
could have been fun

I say we all make mistakes
now if she made film after film
then sure
no way would I even joke around and write her a letter
but
as it is
had she showed up
we would have had a great time
and I might have gotten lucky who knows
always worth a shot eh mate

[Frosty]

heathen's and blasphemers
I am surrounded by heathen's and blasphemers
Canada has actually been a leader in banning epoxy coated cans from food use and in banning Bisphenol A containing plastics from food contact as well
so its not surprising to hear they are charging 4 plastic bags


Hey well dome Boston, a vast improvement. It would appear you are nearly ready for the Drivel thread.

[Boston]

I strive to always be growing in both my spiritual and my intellectual life

[brian eiland]

What if we could do this!!!!



PLASTIC BACK INTO OIL IT CAME FROM!!!!!


A case of Japanese ingenuity and perseverance? What is more important would be the marketing and very low cost to make it mandatory.

To have one of these in every home.
Better yet, find a way to stop packaging everything in plastic.

Sound is all in Japanese. Just read the subtitles and watch.

http://www.flixxy.com/convert-plastic-to-oil.htm

Possibly a great discovery!

[Boston]

thats a great twist on the gasification process
the local zoo is building one of those ( at a cost of about 30 million ) to burn their trash
the benifits are obvious but the potential for trouble is also high
the temp must be carefully controlled and plastics should not be exposed to temps to low to destroy the toxic binders that hold it together PCB and dioxin for instance
its a great idea and I'm really stoked about someone coming up with it.

thanks
B

[brian eiland]

While independent lobby groups are leading the way, there are some sporadic moves afoot by governments around the world to save our oceans and ocean life (and our food chain) from plastic. In India new rules include a 'no free plastic bag' initiative by government, in the United Arab Emirates they vow to be 100% plastic-free by 2013 and now in the EU the authorities are to pay fishermen to retrieve plastic bags from the ocean.

Currently the world's population uses and discards around 500 billion plastic bags every year. The European Union (EU) plans to pay the continent’s fishing fleets for collecting plastic as part of an initiative that will help reduce pollution in sea.

As per under consideration proposals from EU commissioner for fisheries Maria Damanaki, fishermen will be paid to land plastic to provide them with income and reduce pressure on dwindling fish stocks, the Sunday Express reported.

Vessels that clear up plastic will initially be subsidised by the EU. The hope is that the practice will become self-sustaining as the value of recycled plastics increases.

Damanaki will unveil a trial project in the Mediterranean this month, which will see fishermen equipped with nets to collect plastic debris.

The plan, as well as an attempt to handle seaborne waste, is also aimed at pacifying Europe’s fishing industry over a potential prohibition on the wasteful practice of dumping low-value fish at sea.

Fleets fear of losing money by not being able to throw away lower-value catch for which they say there is little demand. A million tonnes are thrown back each year in the North Sea alone.

Commissioner Damanaki said: ‘Ending this practice of throwing away edible fish is in the interest of fishermen and consumers. It has to happen, we cannot have consumers afraid to eat fish because they hate this problem of discards.

‘People (in the fishing industry) feel insecure because this is a change. That is why they need incentives.’ The industry will contribute to the pilot but it is not known how much each fisherman will get. Payments will depend on tonnage and the recycling market.

Plastics 2020 Challenge, an industry campaign that supports recycling and preventing litter, is backing the move.

by Sail-World Cruising

[FAST FRED]

"Vessels that clear up plastic will initially be subsidised by the EU. The hope is that the practice will become self-sustaining as the value of recycled plastics increases."

Check the propulsion section, with a new attempt at steam power that burns anything , perhaps power cruisers could go voyaging on free waste plastic as fuel ,
and get handouts from EU taxpayers as an oceanic garbage removal service .

FF

[Boston]

The deal with burning plastic is that unless its done at a really high temp it releases a lot of toxins. Basically you'd need something like a gasification system to get the temps required.

[hoytedow]

it doesnt,,,and the ones that do litter,,,wont listen to the gov. anyways,,,,,,is like here,,,,texas has a law that states,,if i go into a gas station/store/whatever,,and i leave my keys in the car,,,i get a FINE,,,,,,and why?,,, because im making it possible for a thief to steal my car.....EASIER,,,so, they make it MY fault some idiot steals my car,,,,,,soooooooo,,,, why dont we give the plastic companies a fine ( make plastic illegal) for every plastic bag thats out there littering MY land.Or how about the illegal aliens who come in by breaking the laws that our government won't enforce being forced to go home so they won't litter a state that they only came in to pillage anyway.

[kach22i]

I use plastic bags for used kitty litter, my cat craps a lot.

We also recycle them at the local "buy the pound" store for others to use.

Unless a plastic bag has meat juice or flour all over it, it gets at least one more use.

[Fanie]

I woke up last night to find the ghost of Gloria Gaynor
standing at the foot of my bed.
At first I was afraid.......then I was petrified.

My girlfriend thinks that I'm a stalker.
Well, she's not exactly my girlfriend yet.

I was explaining to my wife last night that when you die you
get reincarnated but must come back as a different creature.
She said I would like to come back as a cow.
I said you're obviously not listening.

The wife has been missing a week now.
Police said to prepare for the worst.
So I have been to the charity shop to get all her clothes back.

My neighbour knocked on my door at 2:30am this morning,
can you believe that 2:30am?!
Luckily for him I was still up playing my Bagpipes

[hoytedow]

A Man's Dilemmas: Two guys were working at a sawmill one day when one of the guys got too close to the blade and cut off his arm. His buddy put the severed arm in a plastic bag and rushed it down to the hospital to get re-attached. The next day he goes to see his chum, and finds him playing tennis.

"Incredible!," says his friend. "Medical science is amazing."

Another month goes by and the same two guys are again at the sawmill working when the same guy gets too close to the spinning blade and this time his leg gets cut off. Again his buddy takes the leg, puts it in a plastic bag and takes it to the hospital to get re-attached. The next day, he goes down to see his chum and finds him outside playing football. "Incredible!," says his friend. "Medical science is amazing!"

Well another month goes by and again the same two friends are at the mill cutting wood when suddenly the same guy bends down too close to the blade and off comes his head. Well his friend takes the head, puts it in a plastic bag, and heads to the hospital to get it re-attached. The next day he goes to see his friend but can't find him.

He sees the doctor walking down the hall and says, "Doc, where is my friend? I brought him in yesterday."

The doctor thinks for a minute and says, "Oh yeah, some idiot put his head in a plastic bag and he suffocated."



Reference: The dailystar

[hoytedow]

I couldn't help it. Fanie hi-jacked the thread and I am a follower.