Yacht Designers-required for a well established shipyard in the U.A.E

[Recruitme]

Yacht Designer - required for a well established shipyard in the U.A.E


Position : Supervisor drawing office
No. of Vacancies 1 No.s
Product : Luxury Motor Yachts
Model Range: 55ft - 93 ft

1.Must hold a degree/diploma in marine engineering/Naval Architecture.
2.Minimum 5 years of experience in marine craft designing.
3.Minimum 5 years experience in developing autocad designs for yachts/commercial boats.
4.Knowledge in 3D modelling software.
5.Proper Pipe networking in luxury yacht designs.

Interest candidates must post their Cvs to designriv@gmail.com.

[Grant Nelson]

So we have to bare our souls, and you can not even mention what company, history, types of boats or the details of the type of work...

[Jeff]

(mod note: moving thread to services & employment forum / deleted duplicate thread)

[lazeyjack]

So we have to bare our souls, and you can not even mention what company, history, types of boats or the details of the type of work...

Look this guy is trying make a quid, dollar, buck, he is not doing it quite right, but at least the poor sod is trying
Lets face it, for every 100 of us that actually do the work, theres 50, taking a cut for doing sod all
if he approaches it a bit differently and says :hey guys, I want to be an intemediary, so send me your stuff"" then maybe he will get there,

[Grant Nelson]

Ah, sure, bank robbers are just trying to make money too... not that I think this person is one... all I was asking was for a bit more background... It did not dawn on me he was working as an independent recruiter - so making that clear up front would have totally avoided my flame. Also, I am sure the post said at first to put our CVs here in the forum, but I guess I was wrong about that, and he does provide an email address. Wonder if you have to move there, or if you can work remotely...

[the1much]

yes grant it did say he wants you to post ya Cvs on thread,, NOT to send to him.

[Hostins]

ni hao? :p

[pashbe1]

Having read several similar threads now, and seen the same people posting the same type of response, I would like to suggest maybe a stickied thread listing 'approved & verified' recruiters for the marine industry. That would be a very helpful resource and reduce the incentive for threads such as this one.

They do exist. A recruiter who I found on this very forum placed me in a very good position.

[the1much]

recruiters are cool...they get alot of "us" jobs.,,,but they need to be honest,upfront,and at least know what their asking you is "in the correct form",,,here in the u.s. as you know,, asking a person to "post" their resumes in public, or making an applicants resume public, is very much against the law,,,,,,,and before ya all say,,but there where he is it may not be,,,, this may be so,,BUT, has ANYONE seen a legit "dude" or business ask you to "post" your personal information online for the general public to see? ,,,and on the "professional" side of things,,,,,my first post wasnt really THAT bad,,,99% of all professionals would of either not said anything to me,, or make a "funny" about it,, either way,, they would not stoop to come back instantly with put downs to old dudes.,, is a very simple and easy test to see how a professional conducts himself,,,,now with just my LITTLE ribbing,,,you see his response,,,,now imagine landing at the airport in whereva,, and having a SMALL disagreement with him,,,,,,wheres that leave the guys that drop everything and all their money for a cool job?

see,, you cant come out and ASK people about their attitudes,, or how they conduct business or if their honest,,,,,cause ALL of them will HIGHLY recommend themselves,,,,so ya got ta "sneek" em into SHOWING ya.

[pashbe1]

Hey Jim, while in general I agree with your points, your post does not address the issue of mine which proposes setting up a stickied thread whose purpose is to list legitimate recruiters. That way we wouldn't have to bother reading these nonsense threads (entertaining as your semi-gibberish posts might be).

[the1much]

ya,,,the only thing with doing that,,,,,Jeff would have to get all kinds of info from them,,,then,, most these countries it would take 6 months just to find out if they were legit,,then by then,,,,the job will be gone.... the dude ( if real) should of just gave HIS name and personal info for all to see,,,,how many BIG yards ( he says its a major builder) will not take resumes directly,,,,and if they do hire recruiters,,,their not gonna hire a "no namer" ,,,,i know the dude needs to keep some info "not public" because that would just loose him money,,,,but ANY recruiter will give the info thats been asked for to get his money,,,and in his other thread,,, he had like 5 job openings,,,all in a day,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and ya your right,,, it would be so cool if we had a way to tell if their legit WAY easier then how we do now,,,,,,but,,,,this kind of crap,, at least may teach the YOUNG dudes a little bit,, so they dont get all hiper to get that new cool job in another country,,,and land in a new country,,,,,and get STUCK there,,,,,,,it happens MANY times every day,,,,,poor guys,,,,,,,,THATS why i "talk" to these "work ads",,,,,i know how it feels to be stuck in a place you hate,, and cant get out,,,,,,then i imagine doing it in a country that dont even LIKE americans, or ANY foreigners.,,,,,,but your "sticky note" is coolz,,,,,,but 1 of the easiest things to do is,,, ask the people their name, phone #, business name, and the name of their local authority on businesses and workers rights,,,,then ask them bout the "paper work" you'll need.,,,,,,when they start "baulking" at ANY of those SIMPLE things,,,,,then it sounds like a "shanghai" job.

hehe,,,and im only SEMI gibberish?,,,,,i'll work on that,, and try for a full-gibberish post ,,,hehe :D;)

[pashbe1]

Jim,

can't help but agree with all you said, again.

Maybe the stickied list would require that all applicants submit the necessary credentials to the Mod in order to have their business listed. Then a quick google check, phone call, email could verify the legitimacy.

That is not to say that an enterprising fraud would not be able to get on, but there is also a limit to how far we need to go to protect people from themselves. Ultimately, we as individuals need to do our due diligence, and failing that, accept the consequences of that failure.

I'm glad you knew I was being humoruos about the gibberish. Keep it up, it confuses the hell out of 'em!

p.s. I have had pretty bad experiences here, and good ones over seas. A-holes come in all shapes, colors, sizes, sex's, creeds, etc.

[the1much]

everything is humorous to me,,hehe,,,you can even "put me down" and ill still make it out funny,,,,,until someone eitha lies about me,,or messes with my friends,,,,and i consider any REAL boat person a friend,, till they prove otherwise :D ,,,,and you are right,,,there should be some kind of "application" you should have to fill out before you go round advertising for jobs hehe ;)

[Butch .H]

Recruitme post your C.V so I can see if I want to be recruited by you

[Daniel Rogers]

I'm glad others have brought this subject up, and agree with all what you say. In Europe there seems to be a huge amount of 'fly by night' so called recruiters just after making an easy quick buck out of us workers. It seems that just about anyone can set up as one without any kind of regulations and just be a middle man, sticking there few bucks on an hour per guy! I to feel there should be some kind of thread or a place where we could all check on these so called recruiters. About a year and a half ago I took up a job offer from a thread posted on here by a Matthew Bromley and his company called British Anzani (A very well known British company name that shut up shop many years ago) I later found out that all he did was buy the name!. The job sounded great and I took a chance agreeing terms etc only over the phone (I have learnt better since!) The job was in Sweden and it worked out he had hired me to a swedish guy who in tern hired me out to another swedish company. Anyway to cut along story short I worked for a month (my limit before not getting paid) and never saw any money/pay coming that I was due, along with other promises etc. I quit and ended up having to take Mr Bromley to court which as you can imagine was a pain, just on a year later I won the case and received all monies owed to me. NOW my biggest point I want to make is that I posted this experience on this site to warn people as soon as it happened, as the guy was still trying to recruit!! The post/thread was removed by the moderator of this site saying something to do with pending legal resolution!! But it took me a year or so to pend that bloody resolution!! so imagine all those other guys that may have also been ripped off from this guy in that year! and I know the majority of guys wouldnt bother going through the long drawn out court case to try and get a month or two's wages! And to make things even worse the same guy now advertises under another name= "Boatworks" I could name probably at least half a dozen other guys/companies in Europe that are dodgy and thats just through personal experience or that of very close friends that have experience with these rogues. Its a tuff one on how to be able to have some kind of site where we could check up, and for everyone thats bad there are of course many decent recruiters out there.I have found one thing,that if there willing to pay for your travel/flights (return!) and shipping of your tools, it gives a little more security to there offer. And of course you can do as I did after my experience and check on the company house website that lists all registered companies, call the tax office to see if there registered etc etc, and I suppose you could also stick a post on here to see if anyone has had experience with who ever. Is there not some budding web designer out there who could set up a register? and a name and shame data base? Anyway thats my story hope it sheds some light and maybe helps in finding a way to combat these dodgy recruiters out there. And to all the decent guys and gals out there in the marine business all the best!

Danny

[aegir]

Daniel Rogers was working as a self employed contractor for myself to X-Raptor in Sweden.
During the first month he was provided with hotel accommodation and then his own appartment.
Without contacting either myself or X-Raptor beforehand, he rejected the appartment and returned to the hotel, billing to X-Raptor.
He later that week mentioned to me that he had returned to the hotel, and I said it needed to be cleared up with Pierre of X-Raptor..
An alternative ‘summer-house’ was then provided for him.
He worked a full month, and in advance agreed to work the second following month.
The ‘summer-house’ was paid for, by X-Raptor, in advance upon this agreement.
Within the first week of the following month he walked out without notice.

Upon his departure X-Raptor contacted me claiming un-paid bills, by Daniel, for food, laundry, his un-authorised stay at the hotel, his paid in advance month at the summer-house and a 15,000 (Swedish Kroner) cash advance.

As soon as I realised there may be a problem I contacted a UK solicitor for advice.
He suggested I go through the Swedish legal system as he thought that took precedence.
I thus contacted "Gothia legal services and debt collection" and asked them to help with sorting this matter out.
I asked Daniel for the details of both the hotel and summer-house, which he claimed he had.
I gave him the details of Gothia to maintain transparency.
He contacted Gothia, who explained the above, and he agreed to send the details.

Due to this being a debt collection matter in Sweden, against X-Raptor also, Pierre for legal reasons did not provide the information.
Daniel stated he had all the details and was the only one that could bring this to a close.

Nothing arrived, and after his call to Gothia and subsequent emails to me, Gothia adviced me to have no further contact with him until his solicitor contacted me.

After several months a Solicitor working for Daniel diid get in touch.
I contacted him immediately whereby I agreed to pay the money owed into a ‘holding’ account, of the solicitor's choice, whereupon Daniel would provide the missing information.
Daniel rejected his solicitors advice and started a ‘county court Claim’ the following day instead.

I wanted to establish the exact details and monies owed and then the correct amount could be transfered.

Daniel admitted to both an un-authorised stay at the hotel and having all the contact information (his solicitor had also said he has seen the hotel contact details)

Instead of court action Daniel was adviced to go to arbitration, to which I agreed.
The arbitrator convinced Daniel that the logical thing to do was to send the missing information (clearing any possible future problems with the Swedish side of the problem) and I would pay the delayed money in full.

Unfortunately, both of us were in the right and wrong, but it did take the correct legal process to resolve.
Being the "Man in the middle" isn't as simple as most people would believe.

As a footnote:
Pierre and X-raptor were made Bankrupt by the Swedish Government.
By all accounts Danny was a very good worker.
"British Anzani" is a trademark of Anzani ltd. registered at Companies House.

[the1much]

well,,i dont have ANYTHING to say about you two's "situation,,,,i aint got the brains to be a judge ;),,,,but what i CAN say is......aegir's response is what a professional response should look like! ,,you see there was PLENTY of room for him to start an argument or to "mouth off",,but his response had NONE of that.
this is NOT saying i "agree" or im on "his side",,,but the RESPONSE STRUCTURE is in a professional manner,,,,Thank- You for showing "how its done"

[masalai]

The style of writing is not "western" and would NOT be an Arab as that sort of stuff would be delegated to an employee and if Indian or from thereabouts, fraught with issues and concerns for reliability and future prospects.... The biggest issue is the "free" email address for a professional business?

[the1much]

this is what a PROFESSIONAL recruiter post should look like.
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23287

[masalai]

Hey Jim, Who was that young guy who had pics of drawings and fantastic furniture he had made? that job would suit him right down to the ground - He is made for that job I reckon..... Chris? something?

[the1much]

lemme lookie,,hehe ;)

[the1much]

haha,,,cant remember,,we need ta ask longerz,,or landyz,,i think 1 of them thought that was a cool desk too,,,

[Daniel Rogers]

I feel I need to reply to Mr Bromley's last post and correct some of the very misleading facts.
1) At no time did I Check in to any Hotel on my own accord!, all bookings and accommodation was arranged By Pierre Holgersson of X-Raptor. ( I'm pretty sure it would be impossible to check into any hotel and tell them to invoice another person/company without the hotel first contacting the said people/company!!
2) The one and only reason for walking out was simple NO one had paid me!! and with many phone calls to Mr Bromley and face to face talks with Mr.Holgersson there was no forseeable payment coming my way. Either party could have paid me even part of my wage to show some good faith.
3) There was N0 Laundry NO food and NO unauthorised stay at ANY hotel (or any other accommodation) and there's was definatly NO 15,000 swedish Kroner cash advance! These were all allegations made by Pierre Holgersson the hotel ones made whilst I was still there working and the others after I quit!
4) I contacted Gothia immediately who told me that the case was none of my concern as it was Mr Bromley's case against Mr Holgersson and that Mr Bromley had'nt even signed the contract for them to take the case on yet. They also told me that in no way would it help me get the monies owed to me and that I would have to sue Mr Bromley.
5)My Solicitor wrote to Mr Bromley asking for payment with in 14 days, At NO point was my solicitor contacted with this so called offer for payment into holding account, So I never rejected any offer!!! My Solicitor had all the relevant paperwork and was in sole charge of the case. When no payment was made to myself, My solicitor advised me to go to small claims court.
6) I've never admitted to an unauthorised stay at the hotel as it was a total lie made up by Mr Holgersson.
7)My Solicitor had all the relevant paperwork from, including a letter from the hotel stating that there was no unauthorised stay,and no laundrey/food etc bills.
8)I was contacted by the courts asking if I wanted to try the new Arbitration service before they made a court date.I said I was willing to try anything to try and get the money owed to me. They Didnt have to convince me to do anything!!! I took the courts and my solicitors advice throughout.
9) Mr Bromley was told in no uncertain terms that he was in the wrong and that a court date would be set and he would most certainly loose as there was absolutely NO evidence from his part to collaborate his story and that of the so called unauthorised hotel stay/Laundry/food/ bills etc etc. and so incurring more court costs etc etc.

I was at NO time in the WRONG!!!!! I did the hours and job I was employed to do, I expect to be paid for it as anyone else would be.
the above is only the bare facts if anyone could have heard the many phone calls/lies and promises that came from both Mr Bromley and Mr Holgersson they would understand my position.

The Simple facts were that Mr Holgersson made the stories up to get out of paying Mr Bromley. He was on the verge of bankruptcy.
And as Mr Bromley wasnt getting paid neither would I.
At any time Mr Bromley could have taken the short trip from Skagen/Denmark to Gothenburg/Sweden (a few hours by ferry) and tried to sought out the situation whilst I was there like any good/normal agent would have.
And what he should have also done was that as soon as the allegations were made By Pierre, he should have asked him for the proof/invoice/information regarding the situation.

These are the true facts of this case!!!! and I strongly believe that if I hadnt gone through the courts I would have never seen my money at all.

[aegir]

“A recruiter is, by definition, in the difficult position of having responsibilities to both the person he recruits and the client he recruits for.

In the difficult situation that Mr. Rogers has raised in this forum, I had responsibilities both to the end-client (X-raptor) and to Daniel Rogers himself.

When an end-client makes allegations against an employee, it is the recruiter’s professional obligation to take those allegations seriously and try to make sense of them in the most transparent way possible.

It’s clear that the situation was complicated by the fact that X-raptor were heading to receivership and this may well have been the motivation behind the allegations.

Ultimately, the end responsibility to pay Mr. Rogers monies for work done was mine and after a process of arbitration, I discharged that obligation. X-raptor’s responsibility to pay me, on the other hand, ended with their bankruptcy - leaving me out of pocket.

I sincerely respect the depth of feeling that Mr. Rogers has about this whole situation, and would like to offer sincere apologise for any errors of judgement or conduct on my part.

I also accept the feedback (some positive and some critical but constructive) that has emerged in this thread and I thank you for giving it, however difficult it is to hear.

It is very easy for us to judge people online from a single exchange. I have many happy clients from many successful contracts where things haven’t run into these kinds of difficulties. I’m sure the same is true for Mr. Rogers and I wish him every success in the future.”

[oceanreef]

Sounds like the company is Riviera Boats in Hamriya Free zone. Just release a 55' (not that good) and working on a 90+' If I remember only 1 NZ expat (designer) there all rest Sub Continent owned by Arabs. Good Luck.

[lazeyjack]

Danny you are British? how did you get this person into court? and where
i got cheated of 17,000 pounds one way or other there, and I am trying to find a way to recover
I asked a lawyer in that country to write a ltter to the entity concerned and they wanted 2000 pounds!! for this service and to get to court and out again would gobble that 17000
Any suggestions?
oh pardon, I see you did not take him to court, and he paid you, but still any suggestions from anybody in UK would be of assistance

[Daniel Rogers]

Hi Lazyjack,
Yes I'm English and that sounds bloody steep for writing a letter! I thought it would be more like around 200 pounds. I used what they call a small claims court, I'm a little unsure what the limit is on claims though,can't remember if its under 5000 or 15000. You can do it all by your self online and costs around 200/300 which you then put on your claim also..so they pay, if you win of course. check out
http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/claims/index.htm

It took me a while to fathom it all out, but once I read through it and worked out what process suited me, it was all very simple.

iF this does'nt work its a bit of a tuff decision to make really on wether to pay out more to a lawyer and risk not getting anything back, so losing out on more than your original 17,000, or just saying sod it. I'm sure you could find someone cheaper to write a few letters to test the water and see how strong your case is. Personally if I had the money I would drag there arse's through the courts till the bitter end! and make there life hell as much as possible. (if of course your in the right which I;m sure you are) There's nothing pisses me off than companies /people not paying up for work done, and unfortunaly if the people who are getting knocked just write it off, these companies realise they can get away with it so just carry on and rip the next guy off.

Where are you in the world now?
let me know how you get on, maybe I can find you a lawyer cheaper than your quote if you need one, Don't give up!!! thats a bloody lot of money owed to you..a lot more than I was owed!!!

Good luck