small offshore yacht design

[wmonastra]

Hay there

Im wanting to get info or plans on a small yacht (30 ft and under) suitable for offshore sailing. Ive searched the usual sites but dont really see anything that grabs me. Is there a designer or plans that anybody has that we could put our heads together and get the yacht made??? Ive got a few ideas i want to see in the yacht but id be keen for a place to start first :) .

Im no yacht designer but there must be somebody on this site that can help me build a one off yacht suitable for the seven seas.....

Thanks in advance

[Brent Swain]

What material?
Brent

[wmonastra]

HI

id prefer steel but the prices are quite high, grp is an option but so is timber, im open to any ideas, im keen to look at what ever plans are out there, or maybe i could give someone a brief and let them draw something up for me.

I want it to be suitable for both hot and cold climates.

Wayne

[sharpii2]

I think Epoxy/plywood is probably your best bet.

There are literally dozens, if not hundreds of designs out there. From out and out racers to fast cruisers to traditional long keel types intended for simplicity, ease of maintenance, and good course keeping qualities.

Keep in mind that building a boat that size is a major undertaking and could take years of part time building to complete.

A fellow in New Zeeland just finished building a 5,000 lb 21 footer, which he plans to sail around the world.

He did an excellent job building it, but it took him almost a year of FULL TIME building to get it done.

I think the thing to do is to really be honest with yourself on what you will actually use the boat for and then go for the smallest one that can do that job.

[wmonastra]

you dont kow the name of the guy or the design this fellow kiwi used by any chance?? id love to get in contact with them.

[raw]

I might* be interested, send me a basic spec by pm.

raw

[PAR]

What are your other requirements, and what has turned you off about some of the available designs under 30'.

Classic, modern, casual race/cruiser, full up racer, full blown blue water cruiser, "in the tradition of", shoal requirements, rig type preferences, type of sailing you expect, type of sailor you are, average number of crew, building experience, materials preferences, D/L range, SA/D range, you know enough to make a reasonable recommendation about the literally thousands of designs in this size range. Personally I have several designs, in this general range of small offshore yacht. Some are more blue water capable then others, with a few being light weight racers and a few solidly constructed cruisers, plus a few in between.

If this is for your planned cold water, solo effort, discussed in previous threads, you'd be well advised to have a custom design drawn up. The requirements of a solo expedition yacht, particularly this small, will be quite demanding of a production offering, with very few being up to the tasks as manufactured.

Is there a reason behind the length restriction? 30' is a very small boat in the Weddell Sea.

[wmonastra]

The main reason for trying to have it under 30ft is cost,

i will be sailing it solo 99% of the time, it will be semi cruiser/racer, and id like it to have an open cockpit.and the bare basics in interior, it will be comfortable but functional.
there no point of having a yacht that sleeps 6 pax with only me on board most of the time, that is a waste of space, my thoughts are that where the vee berths would normally be, it would be left open (yet reinforced) and that would have a toilet,small work bench, but mostly be sail and other storage.

you are right the first few trips will be down to the really cold climates, but it will only be a one off trip as after ive been there i will be working my way uptowards the med etc.

it will have a self steering vain, and the basics for the nav area, a single burner gimballed stove, im a firm believer on the less you have the less that can go wrong.
the boat will be self righting, and im a huge fan on the racing designs and styles.
ive been sailing since i was 14 on everything from small dingys, cats to the keeler i now live on. (its not suitable for the long term trips i want to do.).

I have a builder friend thats willing to build it for me, so getting a good boat builder wont be a problem, Ive seen and read a lot about the solo sailers on the bigs boats and i admire them for what they can do, im not doing this for anybody other than myself and wanting to see the world. i will be self funding my trips (no sponsers) so hence the reason for trying to work with in a small budget.
I dont feel safe sailing a boat larger than 35ft solo (ive tried) it just alot of work.

please feel free to ask anything you want, if it helps me get the boat i want then im more than happy to help .

[Chris Ostlind]

you dont know the name of the guy or the design this fellow kiwi used by any chance?? id love to get in contact with them.

You're not referring to the John Welsford design, Sundowner, by any chance. The builder, Charlie Whipple has her in the water now and sailing even though the website does not show those photos as of yet.

Here's the URL: http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/sundowner/updates.htm

Word is, that John is about to do a 25' expanded version of the Sundowner and that should be a real nice boat for the kind of work you want to do. If you do want to go for thr 30' size, I do encourage you to at least speak to John about your interests.

Contact John Welsford:

phone & Fax: 64 (0) 7 829 5282

email: jwboatdesigns@xtra.co.nz

Address for orders and despatch enquiries:

Po Box 314 Ngongotaha
New Zealand

Address for correspondence with John Welsford.

Po Box 24 062
Hamilton
New Zealand

[Chris Ostlind]

Here are three photos of Whipple's Sundowner under sail in very light air.

[lacage]

If you want to build a capable boat on a budget without compromising the end result I suggest you consider my method of construction. www.bourneboats.com.au
Cheers from down under Peter

[wmonastra]

sorry for the late reply, things have been very hectic at work at the moment, your site looks great, what actully is it ?

[Seafarer24]

What do you have against the Freedom 28?

[G.Y.D.]

hi,
we develop custom designs, mainly fast sail boats.
We can give you a had in developing your design; please visit our site:
www.gyachtdesign.com

feel free to drop us a line.
good luck!

[lacage]

If you E-Mail me ( via my web site ) which part you dont get, and the parameters for your design, I would be happy to design you a boat that would suite my method of construction.
Cheers from Peter
www.bourneboats.com.au

[Capn Mud]

Hi There,

I recently bought a (modified) Swarbrick Pinnacle 25ft. The boat is fast and weatherly and easy to sail single handed (some pics attached) and roomy enough for one or two. The one I boaught was sailed around the top of Australia from Perth to Cairns by a couple with not autohelm or steering assistance what so ever. My first sail in her was single handed in about 30 knots of wind and 2m seas with one reef in the main and the jib partially furled and I fealt completely under control, safe and happy.

I cant seem to find plans specifically mentioned on the web. This may (or may not) be them http://quotesys2.sailrite.com/ShowAd.aspx?id=6695&SourceID=%200%20&BoatName=SWARBRICK+25

John Swarbrick is an excellent designer from Perth. His "Spacesailor" 27 (and there may also be a smaller version - 24ft perhaps) is very popular in Western Australia and is very roomy. I am told that the Pinnacle 25 is a very popular racing model in Perth. However none of this appears specifically on what I think is his web site http://www.swarbrickandswarbrick.com.au/index.html. You could ask via the website if interested.

Cheers,
Andrew

[Capn Mud]

attached

[Finlander]

Hi Wayne,

I like your idea. I've done some offshore sailing on <40' boats, although not as small as 30'. Small boats intrigue me though. Here are my thoughts if you are interested...


i will be sailing it solo 99% of the time, it will be semi cruiser/racer, and id like it to have an open cockpit.


I have found that once you load down a racer/cruiser with supplies for a longer journey, it sits rather low in the water and therefore some of the speed advantage is negated. It might also be a liability in heavy seas, since heavily loaded R/Cs tend to dig-in more. This is all aside from being a downright harsh ride!

For this reason, I would choose a more full-bodied design, with ample buoyancy in the bow section, that is capable of carrying the added weight necessary for a longer trip. Besides, you might want to haul back a baby rhino from Africa, right? :D Not to mention the possibility of more tankage due to the buoyancy.

From an interior layout perspective, it means that you can design bigger storage into the saloon (I prefer wide longitudinal settees there, with storage under and behind each) and have considerably more living area for the same length vessel. Maximum interior volume is especially important in that length range.

my thoughts are that where the vee berths would normally be, it would be left open (yet reinforced) and that would have a toilet,small work bench, but mostly be sail and other storage.

I agree completely. I'm not a big fan of V-berths either. As you say, it's where the head should be in this case.

you are right the first few trips will be down to the really cold climates,

You might want to consider a raised galley and nav station section. It doesn't need to be raised much; just enough so you can see forward out of some round ports or windows while you are standing. That way, you can cook, navigate, do repairs--all while keeping watch from inside the boat. It's better than always climbing the ladder to view what's in front of you.

It's sort of a nice safety feature too. Imagine you get really sick while underway--a major chest infection!--so at least you can stay in the heated cabin. It might save your life. I once had near-pneumonia while underway. Luckily, I wasn't single-handing, so I could sleep down below the whole time. If I was, then I would have needed to rig a chair or hammock with view to the outside. I've even seen someone rig a chair to the companionway! He designed a Plexiglas pyramid over the hatchway to cover his head.

Anyway, aside from providing more space for tankage, raising that section of floor gives you better engine access under the companionway steps. That's because it enables the cockpit floor to be raised--all without adding extra steps to the companionway ladder. As a trade-off, you'll have a step between galley/nav and saloon instead.

Having more space underneath the cockpit means that you can put a 'playpen' double under there to compensate for the lost V-berth. It would be great for resale, considering that most people expect at least 4-berths in a 30-footer. Even if you don't sleep down there while underway, you can use the space to store awkwardly shaped items, like a bicycle!

Linked below is a design from which you might want to draw ideas. The V-berth could be nixed and cockpit floor raised for that sleeping area underneath, as I described (notice the short companionway steps; plenty of room to raise it). You don't necessarily need to go that high with the wheelhouse. Just realize that a pilothouse as shown here probably requires the flush deck design, when considering the height needed above the galley's counter top. But a flush deck might nicely offset its cost! Also, you can do it much simpler regarding windows. Round ports can be less expensive, but it depends on your desired aesthetics. Notice the nice camber on the rooflines to reduce windage from the side.

http://www.buy-a-boat.com/Gulf32PH.htm

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it! ...for now :-)

Cheers!
Kristian

[Finlander]

Hey, here's another idea...

Make that nav station area as versatile as possible. Create alternate mount points along that side, at various heights, so the chart table can be converted to a two-person dinette when in port (seats facing each other). Aside from making the boat more livable, it'll keep the saloon free of crumbs :!: Plus, you'll be able to enjoy your scenic destinations rather than being down in the 'cave' all the time. If not for yourself, then think resale!

Also, create mount points (or use the ones described above) for a solid work bench with vice. When attached temporarily, you can do repairs while underway. Incidentally, the side wall makes great usable storage space for tools when fitted with simple cabinets or bins.

Don't know if you're still reading, but I'm getting excited about your boat :cool:

Kristian

[asetenta]

since 2000 there is a small oceanic class "open 30"

there are only a few exemplars and they are trying to expand the class, so I guess the builders wouldn´t have any problem with sharing plans

http://www.40gradossur.com/gallery/gallery/Open%2030%20-%20Tsunami/07%20-%20Diamante.jpg http://www.40gradossur.com/gallery/gallery/Open%2030%20-%20Amigo%20Juan/12.%20Primera%20navegada.jpg

http://www.open30.org/


Martin Blilloch designed an open 30 for the shipyard Cuarenta Grados Sur, I would contact him:
tel: +54 1141458428
info@billoch.com
http://www.billoch.com/

[wmonastra]

HI Finlander,

Thank you for your ideas, ive been pretty bust at wk recently hence the delay in responding, and im glad your getting excited about my boat, send me an email on a different address as id like to chat in more detail bout your thoughts.

And to all the others thanks for the photos, keep them coming as im taking bits out of alot of places at the moment and im thinking that the end result will be just fantastic :)

[Kaa]

Unfortunately Charlie Whipple's Sundowner Resolution is at the moment breaking up on rocks of the Great Barrier Island, while Charlie himself was airlifted out after he triggered his EPIRB...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10517875

Kaa

[dcstrng]

Hay there

Im wanting to get info or plans on a small yacht (30 ft and under) suitable for offshore sailing. Ive searched the usual sites but dont really see anything that grabs me...

I like Finlander’s basic, well thought-out, design premise… for your stated use, I’d second the motion for a boat intended to carry the weight of stores you envision – at, or above, its designed waterline… for the most part, boats with a racing heritage (or cruiser-esque variations designed to appeal to those who fancy themselves racers…) will have limited carrying capacity – except for the fact that solo, you (just) might be able to stay with the designer’s parameters, given that the designer probably had to anticipate the occasional weights of the kids, mother-in-law and portly ol’ aunt Maude.

Although I’ve lived aboard and sailed boats up through the 42-48 foot range in years past, I’ve long been intrigued by the concept of sailing in the small – generally smaller than you envision I think, am currently refurbishing a Bristol 24 which seems compactly palatial (is than an oxymoron…) for my current purposes – and am confident that your under-30 (cost based) constraint isn’t much of a restriction… indeed for solo sailing, it should move you nicely up the food-chain, where you have room for a permanent nav-station, that isn’t required to serve a dual proposes as a table, work-bench or the like…

Some time ago Jay Benford sketched up a very shippy looking full-keel, 26’ (on deck) cutter – never actually saw a real one, don’t know if any were built… and for many years I had a spreadsheet set up to manipulate his lines for his 39’ Prometheus design done into something in the low to mid 20 foot range… never did engage him in the project (since they were his lines, I assume he still owns them…), but spent many a happy hour fantasizing what a nice little blue-water boat might be the result… but for now am wonderfully content with Paul Coble’s Bristol design – being more or less a three ton boat, it just fits within the old rule of thumb that a voyaging boat should have somewhere in the neighborhood of 3000-5000 pounds of displacement for each intended crew…

Good luck…

[gouloozeyachts]

Read your requirements and recommondations from above and studied various yachts offered and (fully)understand that up till now you have not decided yet. Amazingly we seems to have the kit of a 30' nearly customized for you. It is fast 11 + kts in Beaufort 3-4. Double skinned, full bodied, space for big tanks etc.
Glad to send all info you want E-mail gouloozeyachts@absamail.co.za

[diwebb]

You may want to look at Lyle Hess the southern California designer of the Pardey's boats Serrafin and Talesin. These are based on the old English fishing boats from the south coast of England. While they are heavy displacement long keelboats they have a good sized rig and are no slouches under sail. They are just about bullet proof for the type of sai ling you indicate that you want to do. The Pardeys have circumnavigated the 24 foot Serrafin and have recently completed their second circumnavigation in Talesin. Also John Guzwell's Trekka, a Laurent Giles design may be of interest, she was only 24 ft long if I remember correctly, but sailed around the world with no problems.

[mgpedersen]

You couldn't go wrong with a Vertue.

I have a soft spot for the Cape George 31 (www.capegeorgecutters.com). There were a couple on yachtworld when I looked a few weeks ago.

[diwebb]

Hi,
another design that you may want to look at is Benford's 34 foot dory yacht Badger. Mike and Annie Hill cruised this boat for about 15 years including a trip to the arctic. See their book Cruising on a small income.. The chinese lugsail rig is very easy to handle which would make it suitable for single handing. This design, while a little longer than you asked for, is very easy to build and it is a proven cruising design and the hills built theirs in less than two years as I recall.
If you choose to purchase a boat then look at the Westsail 32. This design is bulletproof as a cruiser and although it has a reputation as slow a friend of mine averaged over seven knots on his cruise from California to New Zealand and one won its class in the Transpac on handicap one year.
I hope that this gives you some ideas for your design selection.
Best of luck with the project.
David

[wmonastra]

HI All

Happy New Year, I hope to be on here alot more often now, as ive just spent the last few months selling and wrapping up my company, so i now have more time to work on my next project.

Im still looking at your answers and now have the time to do things in more detail.

I still welcome anymore thoughts.

Im also starting to shop round for gear and equipment that i will be needing.

Any idea.

Wayne

[Boston]

hey friend you should check out Ted Brewer Yacht Designs
he is an old timer from the New England area
has some great stuff
my two cents
B

[Tcubed]

Or what about something like this low cost plywood ocean going dragster?

[PAR]

You still need to define you ideas and desires for an off shore yacht. Several have been shown here, many of which I don't consider very suitable for anything other then racing.

There are literally thousands of designs, by hundreds of designers. I have several, ranging from flat out, no holes bared racers to very wholesome cruisers, that can swim into hurricanes with very good survivability, with many cruisers in between.

There are many differences between racers, racer/cruisers, cruiser/racers, light cruisers, heavy cruisers, passage makers and harbor queens.

Developing a list of what you want, desire, just have to have and possibly what would be nice to have aboard is mandatory. Every yacht is a combination of dozens of concessions on the part of the designer/client, in an attempt to define the ideal vessel for the given set of parameters. A custom or semi-custom yacht for you will be no different. The other option is to use a set of stock plans and modify it to suit your needs as best as it's design limitations will permit.

[wmonastra]

Tcubed, When you say low cost, how much we talking bout? what are the specs on this yacht??

Are there any made and sailing i can google??

W

[wmonastra]

PAR, Whats the best way to contact you and i will give you my list (quite long) of wants and needs for my yacht. if others want to see as well, let me know and i will post it on here.

W

[PAR]

Click on my name, where you can send me an email.

[Brent Swain]

HI

id prefer steel but the prices are quite high, grp is an option but so is timber, im open to any ideas, im keen to look at what ever plans are out there, or maybe i could give someone a brief and let them draw something up for me.

I want it to be suitable for both hot and cold climates.

Wayne
I have plans for a 26 footer in steel . One has sailed to Australia from Canada and another has sailed thru the NW passage. The price of steel has dropped considerably lately. I also have plans for my own boat ,a 31 footer that I've sailed to Mexico and back to BC as well as two trips to Tonga and back to BC.
Brent Swain
brentswain38@yahoo.ca

[Tcubed]

The specs are loa 12 M , boa 2.67 M , disp 2.9 T.

Cost can be as expected for a straightforward home build epoxy/ plywood (no glass) setup.
No, none exist yet. I fill in my spare time expanding my collection of designs.
I will work on actual materials cost as i fill in the construction plans.

Before anyone gets too enthusiastic let me warn that this design has no standing headroom. I think standing headroom in uldb boats under 15 M is a real performance killer. It does have a aft double berth though. The keel , in common with all my high aspect ratio keel designs goes all the way through to the deckhead. I will not have one of my designs get added to the shockingly long list of boats with lost keels. It is meant to be all out performance on the high seas but accessible to the common man.

[PAR]

The original poster want a "comfortable, but functional" cruiser with some performance potential. How does a ULDB with a bulb fin fit this minimalist design brief?

[Tcubed]

Comfort is a subjective term. At sea i never stand (not in a small fast boat) so standing headroom is optional. Of course others might feel differently and also in the harbour it is a different story. It is important to know therefore what percentage of time will be spent at sea compared to at anchor.

But to be honest i threw in the image fairly gratuitously, just because i happen to be working on it right now and thought it might be interesting and more or less in the area of the topic , not nescessarily "this is just what you want"

By the way minimalist it is (perhaps even too much so)

[PAR]

I read more of a focus on cruising, which means storage capacity, tankage, range, the ability to get into shoals, comfort at sea and in port, etc., from the original poster. His "quite long" list of requirements and desires, suggests a fairly well encompassing cruiser design, which many of the offers thus far (not all) couldn't seriously approach.

[mrjo]

Hi there, I would check out designs by ex Sth African designer Dudley Dix a Dix 34 built using radius chine ply/epoxy is a boat that can take you around the globe in comfort and speed, it is easy and relatively cheap to build, I would be very surprised if you don't like the look of it too. Good luck,

[wmonastra]

Good News..Ive now narrowed down what im looking for.

Im wanting a mini transat yacht (design) but slightly bigger. Other than making a few minor changes to the interior that's what im looking for.

MRJO, ive had alook at the site you suggested and its a great looking yacht, the only info i found on the dix site was on a boat called the didi 34.Was that the one you were thinking i look at??

I couldnt find one called the dix 34.

[mrjo]

Yep sorry I did mean the didi 34, quite a few being built by amateurs the world over as they perform well and even though light displacement still have a good motion due to the fact they are not too beamy, if you go with something closer to a mini transat you won't be so comfortable on a passage, anyway the choice is yours but I wouldn't procrastinate too long on a design choice or make too many changes as the building will of course take much longer than anticipated! good luck, Jo

[Boston]

nice boat