How much is it for custom boat design?

[IamSam]

I'm new here..
I've dreamed of having a catamaran .
I wonder how is the price range for 50' catamaran full design..(Power and Sail)

Now, I'm living in Philippines...I know a few man who can help me to build a boat but the problem is they can not design in a professional way..

my email is charlie1004@hotmail.com...

anyone has idea..plz give me an email. or just reply...

thanks

[IamSam]

Power cat

http://www.pedigreecats.com/sasa/cat1.jpg

Sail cat

http://www.pedigreecats.com/3ID/pedcatiz1.jpg

[Nordic Cat]

I would expect somewhere in the region of 80-100,000 USD for a new design from scratch going on the prices I saw a couple of years ago.

I am in the process of doing this for a 49 ft. sailing cat, and can reccomend the designer doing the final design for my boat. He is experienced in both motor and sailing catamarans.

See here: http://www.dtyd.co.za/about.htm


Anton du Toit is the man to speak to.

Regards

Alan

[IamSam]

:eek: wow....that's really really ......expensive...I didn't expect that much..

Is there anyone offering a lot cheaper than that?

BTW, thanks for your info..

[Nordic Cat]

You did state that you wanted a "full design", i take that to mean all the inside stuff, engines, propellers, electrics, as well as document the scantlings to a designated standard like ABS or ISO.

This is a medium price level I think, if you want less you pay less, as in all things, you get what you pay for.

A good designer charges from 80 usd/hr and up

regards

Alan

[rwatson]

The range of prices quoted for designs varies quite a bit with the prospect of on-selling the design.
Some designers will do the work for a sizeable discount on the chance that they can re-sell the design to other people.

IamSam - if you think that design quote is expensive, have you priced the actual boats? The boats from the designs you show would *start* at $250,000. Check out a few in the used boat section.

The other thing that isnt always obvious for a new boat owner, is that the $100,000 design fee is actually saving money. For a start, you wont get insurance unless a boat that size has been designed by a reputable navel architect - imagine losing quarter of a mill if your uninsured boat sinks from an unexpected event. On top of that, unless you are extremely experienced, you would waste that much using the wrong materials, overordering the right materials, having work re-done by other tradesmen because you didnt have an accurate plan to go by. A mistake in the installation of the engines alone would set you back tens of thousands.

Join the club of -" I cant believe it actually costs that much!!!"

[CTMD]

It is hard to give a price based on the info you have given. Most designers will normally quote somewhere between 5 and 10% of the final cost to build the boat. There will be discounts on this based upon all or some of the following:

1. Are you buying an existing design, a modification to an existing design or something completely new.
2. What level of info are you after, some designers will give you 10 sheets of A3 paper others will give you over 100 a1 or electric drawings including details of how all the furniture should be built.
3. What level of support are you after, does the fee include on site inspections or are these additional?
4. What sort of guarantee is included? Does the designer have professional liability insurance?
5. Is the design something that the designer wants in their portfolio. There are big discounts available if the designer really wants the contract either to on sell as a stock design or to prove their skills to the market place.

Few designers will do this work on a charge out rate. Most will quote a fixed price and then list charge out rates for additional work not included in their standard scope of supply. If your contract price doesn't include a detailed weight estimate walk away and find someone else.

If you would like any more advice or a quote to do this work please don't hesitate to ask.

[gwboats]

Hello IamSam,

I hope my fellow designers will forgive me but I felt a strong need to reply.

I must agree with you - either the prices quoted so far for designs are incredibly high or I am not charging enough!

A set of production drawings (structural, mechanical and electrical) from our UK design office for a one-off 50 foot catamaran would be less than one third of the price quoted by 'Nordic Cat'.

Our 'rule of thumb' for design costs is normally 2 to 3% of total project cost.

We have been in business since 1985 and have many happy clients and have always strived to give good service at a reasonable price and I hope we have succeeded so far. All our designs do include free e-mail and telephone support.

Well I'm glad to get that off my chest.

Best Regards,
Graham Westbrook
Naval Architect
www.westbrookmarine.co.uk

[juiceclark]

only $30k? Can you design a new wife for me...mine is defective.

[alan white]

I think it's a bit ridiculous to pay 100k for a design for a 250 k boat. That said, if the designer can get it, why not? It's not my money.
However, as can be seen, a NA can survive comfortably at one third that.
This relates to a "normal" design. Sometimes wealthy people like to pretend everyone they hire is Santa Claus and such people "want what they want".
For them, by all means, a huge fee is appropriate (and necessary).
A racing boat is also worthy of a large design expense account, since there is a lot of work in designing each part to be as light and strong as possible.
To get so much as 100k for designing a fifty-footer that isn't very very extraordinary (except to the owner) seems like wishful thinking, but hey--- if you can get it, more power to you.

Alan

[kerosene]

I am not a NA - all I know is that a plumber costs 70$ an hour or more where I live. If NA makes the same I think it sounds reasonable.

Another important thing - 80K design cost on 250K product is way off - however the cat pictures come from pedigree cats website - their pricing:

http://www.pedigreecats.com/amen_pr.htm

seems like their price for 50' cat is well above million.

and their cats while not work boat finished aren't quite the luxury yachts with exotic wood and silly fanciness. I guess very important point is what kind of 50ft boat?

[gwboats]

In reply to juiceclark:

For 30k we would have a go even though it would be a new area for us.

Just to be clear - would this be an inflatable you're after.

Cheers,
GW

[Tad]

Rule of thumb says the complete design of a 50' boat will take roughly 900-1000 hours. Design cost should be based on the number of hours expended and the cost per hour. You can probably get a boat designed in China for less than $20 per hour, I charge $85.

The designer doesn’t have to spend 1000 hours on your design, that depends on what he or she is comfortable with and what you (the client) are willing to pay for. A weight study might take 120 man hours, but it's not required. If you are doing a typical boat without radical features, stick it in the water and see how she floats, then make changes as required. Some will see this as foolish, others will see it as economical.

There are only 4 drawings required to build any boat, anything beyond this is window-dressing and the designer justifying high design fees, which is fine. If the builder wants to have a dimensioned drawing of every drawer in the boat he will need to pay for it. In this way he can probably make do with less skilled people.

[CTMD]

I don't know where the 250K (build) or 100K (design) prices cames from.

These are US $1 Mill+ boats, 5% of that is $50K (This is approx what most people will charge for a complete design including composite engineering etc, but not including high level interior design). Thats only $50-$60 an hour based on Tad's estimate. Not completing a weight estimate on a large catamaran is professional suicide for any designer who is willing to back up their work with guarantees. The much lower trimming moments exhibited by these designs means that you can get very bad results very quickly. In the absence of a weight estimate and sufficiently detailed drawings showing where everything goes, this is the designer's fault and they should be the ones paying for it to be corrected. Sometimes this is as easy as moving the batteries other times it may mean hull additions. However, if all the info is provided and the builder and all client make modifications that result in the problems then the designer is in the clear.

There are a lot of people throwing around figures here without listing what they include. You now know that if you are in the market for a custom 50' cat, a design will be somewhere between between 30K and 100K (I know people who would charge more than this). You're not going to learn a lot more in a public forum. As with anything else shop around and get quotes, make sure you fully understand what each of the designers is going to provide and what extra costs are involved.

[yipster]

3ID a member on his forum did te shown concept renders and pedigree cats can build them as they have expirence as yard building big cats
for a cat (power and/or sail?) that size considerable naval architecture and mechanical engineering is required witch is more than a few guy's that can help

[Tad]

Chris,

I guess I should have said, "A weight study might take 120 man hours, but it's not required to create a boat that floats.....sort of." ;)

[yipster]

came acros a relation between weight study and construction cost i want to share, some funky boats too ( cats probably more expensive )
Costs for boatbuilding these days (2002) are fairly directly tied to the volume or displacement (weight) of the vessel involved. The feedback we've been receiving from our various builders indicates to us that costs are running from about $3.00/pound for the very heavy displacement types to over $5.00/pound for the lighter displacement boats. For an example, look at the range of displacements for our 50' designs - they range from 32,750 to 110,000 pounds. Use of the lower $3.00 price times 110,000 gives $330,000 and the higher $5.00 times 32,750 gives $163,750. These prices are for materials only, exclusive of any hired labor, tools, building site, building shed, insurance, launching, and inflation over the time during which the vessel is built. A professionally built boat is running from a low of around $5.00/pound for the very heavy ones to sometimes well beyond $20 for the lighter ones. This would include the materials above plus the labor to transform them into a boat, but with no allowance for inflation. This figure can readily be run up, depending on the level of finish and detail, plus the costs for electronics and other extras that may be added as the boat is being built. Of course, the costs in a boat can be unlimited, as we all tend to add "just one more" item to them in an ongoing fashion, but these figures generally include all the basics such as engines, sails, berths, head and galley. http://www.benford.us/index.html?articles/index.html

[Nordic Cat]

I am in the process of designing a 49 ft sailing cat, and am using a NA to finalise the design, and do all the detailed engineering. I initially asked around regarding prices, but only NA's who had proven sailing cat design experience.

The prices I was originally quoted are in the region of the 50-100k. But once we got down to defining exactly what was required, they crept up closer to the 100k mark OK, if I could use an earlier design that the NA could reuse to a large extent then we came down to 40-50k. The estimates were based on a very detailed weight study that needed to be done, and I would never even consider a catamaran design without one. Our weight study has more than 1000 data entries at the present time. Just defining the equipment, deciding on the supplier, getting the weights is a time consuming job.

Building costs: You can get a 50 footer built from stock plans in foam/polyester from around 400-500K if you go to a low cost labour country. If you want some good kit on board, and a reasonable internal finish the hours pile on.

The hulls, deck and bridgedeck and bulkheads weigh around 2,3 tons using infusion and foam/epoxy.

I expect around 10000 - 12000 hours for my boat with most of the insides painted.

For the designs pictured, I would estimate build costs to be >700K for a one-off boat.

So if there are any NA's here who will design a 50 ft sailing cat to ABS or ISO, and do it for 30 K, let me know, as I have another project in mind.

Anyone who will build one for 250K including 2 engines, good rig, then get in touch please.

Regards

Alan

[Bullshipper]

Roger Hill or Chris Tucker are very capable, with lots of experience.

$100K is 2x what this should cost of you go with a proven hull design and a custom layout for yor needs.