Hermann Görings Motor Yacht "CARIN II" rotting away in the Red Sea

[Metronicity]

Gidday! Thought you guys might be interested in this. I'd be interested in your comments. http://www.welcometowallyworld.com/frontpage/2008/4/26/hitlers-diary-hermann-goerings-yacht.html

[safewalrus]

Interesting piece of history but what she stands/stood for is hopefully long gone (to some more than others) best she left to quietly rot and sink gently beneath the waves like the old queen (grande dame not puff) she once was!

[JimboFromIrmo]

Just let it go, man.

[Meanz Beanz]

Looks like she's worth restoring... probably very well built.

[PAR]

Good, let it rot . . .I'll bring the match when it's time.

[Meanz Beanz]

Why? Where the shippys that built it evil people? Its a bit of history that we'd better not forget, better that some one gets some pleasure from what is probably a fine craft. They have preserved all sorts of other things, war machines and the like so? We forget and we are doomed to repeat... its not the boats fault after all.

Cheers
MBz

[PAR]

I'm not blaming the boat, but do resent what it's clam to fame is. Many very fine yachts were lost to the war effort. I'd rather see her materials used to revive one of these then reclaim her glory. Or would you prefer her restoration? Well, if we do restore her, wouldn't the height of her existence be flying a Nazi flag from her staff? Maybe we could decorate her with period articles like the front page of the London papers declaring how many died in the previous night's bombing. Possibly we could celebrate the Nazi prostitutes that were frequent visitors with scantly dressed manikins, lounging on the fore deck.

It was the pride of truly sick people, it should be given the same quarter as they.

[Meanz Beanz]

I'd restore the boat for the boats sake, you can keep all the rest... its just a boat now.

[Meanz Beanz]

I will qualify that with if it where the sort of classic I where after... in reality its a moot point, as its not anything I am likely to undertake soon and its half a world away.

[Wynand N]

I say restore.
Par, I believe that history shaped our future, however, having said that, if you clings to the past, you have no future...

Look at my country, the current incapable government screwed up this country big time, and still blames apartheid for that and every corrupt move they make - think that over.:confused:

[TollyWally]

While I generally think flame is a somewhat poetic end to a noble craft I'd break this son of a bitch up with an excavator, then burn it.

[Manie B]

Its a boat for gawds sake.
Restore it if you can afford it.
Appreciate the workmanship that went into it.
Many good boats have got bad owners.

[Meanz Beanz]

So some of you guys would be torching all the VW Beetles you see then?

[murdomack]

So some of you guys would be torching all the VW Beetles you see then?

That is not the same thing, now if it was a VW that was used by the Nazis then it should be torched.
People assume that the Nazis went away when the war ended. They are still at work in our establishments.
People who collect and restore Nazi Memorabilia conveniently forget the evils that they perpetrated against many races around the world.
Countless millions died to stop their march and we owe it to Them that we do not do anything that brings any good light on their evil.

[Meanz Beanz]

Its a boat, you don't have to put the fricken swash stickers on the damn thing. Wanton destruction of anything is a waste, why not celebrate that some one is getting pleasure from what was once the property of the evil doers... now that's expression of victory over evil. Why not put it to good use, take street kids out on it, raise money for charity with it.... find a positive instead of destroying it, destruction is so childishly small minded, its the sort of thinking that took us to war in the first place.

Some of you guys better get around to a few museums, there are a few VW's, planes and bits and pieces that the Third Reich used that you might want to burn or blow up.

[Meanz Beanz]

Jeeze its not like anyone is saying you have to celebrate the bustards that had it built. The shippys who built it on the other hand where probably working blokes not that far away from you and yours in what they wanted from life. Why crush their efforts just because the Nazis where pricks?

[Meanz Beanz]

Would you have the buildings in Germany that the Nazis built destroyed or used? I'd wager that the ones that survive and are viable are being put to good positive use.

[murdomack]

I have no objection to someone restoring this boat, but I cannot imagine how any thinking person could use it as a source of pleasure given its past. That is probably why it lies neglected.
Having Nazi military items in museums is acceptable to my mind, but this boat does not qualify as any of that.

[Meanz Beanz]

Its past has been similar to hundreds of buildings in Germany, it was hardly a killing machine or a gas chamber, it was a toy, albeit of an unsavory character but non the less a pleasure craft. I can't imagine how any thinking person can sanction unnecessary destruction, but there you go. Its not been neglected since the war, its had some degree of up keep, there is only about a decade of neglect there.

[murdomack]

You may call it a toy, but it was gifted by the German motor industry, for what reason I can only guess, but I'm pretty sure we all know why.
Its upkeep since the war was by the British Royals who are not too far removed from its previous owners.
You may not know that the British right, with the backing of the CIA, planned a coup to remove the democratically elected UK government in the seventies and were going to install the Queens cousin, Mountbatten, as a temporary head.
Its last owner conned everyone he came into contact with and I am sure none of the work he got done was paid for.
There has certainly not been any love given to it and I don't imagine its future will be much better. Try and imagine how you would feel at the helm knowing that all these mass murderers had stood there before you.

[tuantom]

Here in Chicago we just spent quite a sum restoring the old Nazi sub U-505 - it's a museum piece though; or more of a trophy - where little dark skinned kids walk through and touch everything on tours guided by jews (it's possible). Donitz (can't find my umlauts) must be turning in his grave.
Then there's the eagle's nest - where the above stated people could sit down and enjoy some wienerschnitzel and bier - it wasn't destroyed either. They probably have a better time than Hitler did.
The point is - if public dollars are to be spent on it, it has to give back in some way or another. I haven't figured out how that boat fits into the formula. However, if someone wants to spend private money on it - Have at it - and let all the blanks about their motivations be filled in by imaginations.

[safewalrus]

Bottom line she's knackered, doesn't matter who built her or why! or who the hell you want for the next Pope, who killed cock robin or any other outlandish thing that has happened -let her go! Would you keep your Grannies body stuffed and on the mantlepiece because she was yer granny?

[safewalrus]

Its upkeep since the war was by the British Royals who are not too far removed from its previous owners.
You may not know that the British right, with the backing of the CIA, planned a coup to remove the democratically elected UK government in the seventies and were going to install the Queens cousin, Mountbatten, as a temporary head.


Pity it didn't happen we'd be better run than now with less dross and 'hangers on' in the country! Many would have supported them!!

[murdomack]

Pity it didn't happen we'd be better run than now with less dross and 'hangers on' in the country! Many would have supported them!!

Only for as long as they were useful, then they would have been exterminated.

[PAR]

The boat was built as a showcase demonstrating the industrial and nautical might of the Nazi way of life. Yes, it was a private yacht, but provided to one of the most evil men the world has ever known.

Most every figurative element of the Nazi's was destroyed after the war. They weren't kept for posterity, but burned in an effort to cleanse the nation of the evil, that still lurks within and now world wide. Restoration of any piece of this mind set is a slap in the face of the men who fought against it, including my father.

When U-505 was considered to be put on display, it caused a huge uproar and understandably so, 55,000 American sailors died at the hands of the U boat fleet. Money could be made, by making her a tourist trap and politicians never turn down a lunch, so she's sat outside the Museum of Science in Chicago for around 50 years now.

Restoration of this yacht would just provide another "shrine" for these fanatics to paste pictures of above their beds. Do we need to have this yacht? Would it offer any significance to the survivors of the era? Will it's restoration serve to bolster the remaining fanatics, even if fleeting?

If for no other reason, then to demonstrate how completely against, the whole of the world was, toward these ideological idiots, it should be gloriously celebrated in it's destruction. Nothing more fitting then in it's present location, where plenty of surviving men and women can attest to the viciousness of the Nazi's.

There are plenty of examples of late 30's pleasure craft to exploite or restore, but some things just need to die.

[lazeyjack]

Torch
dont be bloody daft, there is an acre of teak in there, and timber is a scarce resource. I am all for recycle
indeed she must have been well made, and the men who built her, like you and I
Strange she must be copper sheeved, else the worm would b e into that oak like fruitcake

[alan white]

Yeah. Emotions are what starts wars. I agree with MB. Of course, on a practical note, some very very emotional folks are likely to sink the boat one night, so I wouldn't want to own it.
I don't believe bad thoughts are transferred to inorganic objects. If they were, it would be wise to do an historical check on anything you buy used--- and stay away from those government auctions.
To those millions of Iraqis who have lost a loved one to the war within the last five years, there's a cigarette boat moored at Kennebunkport, Maine, and that boat had nothing to do with what happened, I swear.
let men be judged for what they do, and not what they say, and let boats be judged for their own merits.

Alan

[lazeyjack]

Yeah. Emotions are what starts wars. I agree with MB. Of course, on a practical note, some very very emotional folks are likely to sink the boat one night, so I wouldn't want to own it.
I don't believe bad thoughts are transferred to inorganic objects. If they were, it would be wise to do an historical check on anything you buy used--- and stay away from those government auctions.
To those millions of Iraqis who have lost a loved one to the war within the last five years, there's a cigarette boat moored at Kennebunkport, Maine, and that boat had nothing to do with what happened, I swear.
let men be judged for what they do, and not what they say, and let boats be judged for their own merits.

Alan

one thing leads to another
USA waged an illegal war on IRAQ, as AW says killed millions of innocents and will keep on killing for longer than WW11, so if Bush had a yacht?
that bastard is as bad as Hitler, he and his henchman should be on trial so lets not get too emotional about a boat

[alan white]

one thing leads to another
USA waged an illegal war on IRAQ, as AW says killed millions of innocents and will keep on killing for longer than WW11, so if Bush had a yacht?
that bastard is as bad as Hitler, he and his henchman should be on trial so lets not get to emotional about a boat

Millions lost loved ones--- hundreds of thousand have actually died, and we all know how many more must have "only" been maimed.
Bush, or maybe his father, owns a cigarette boat used for both rampant oil consumption and bass fishing, and it's kept at Kennebunkport at the family compound.
But like I say, that boat's done nothing wrong.

[lazeyjack]

Millions lost loved ones--- hundreds of thousand have actually died, and we all know how many more must have "only" been maimed.
Bush, or maybe his father, owns a cigarette boat used for both rampant oil consumption and bass fishing, and it's kept at Kennebunkport at the family compound.
But like I say, that boat's done nothing wrong.

no Alan you are quite wrong, over a million have died , it is fact
USA has been in 28 wars since WW2 If she had kept her nose out of the worlds affairs, and no matter what, it was not her business, all that reds under bed stuff, if she had not spent trillions on arms over the years, your people would be fed clothed educated
As it stands 35% of you live below poverty line and just a few % are educated
in germany as you know, everyone speaks a second language and most are educated with full bellys Hitler did not do as much harm as your guys are doing you , Nuff lecturing you know all this And you also know that every email you send is in cia database

[murdomack]

If I was just looking at her as an old boat I would have to agree with you, but the opening line from post #1 has Hermann Gorring as the first two words. She is not being presented as a boat but as a Nazi boat.
I could probably support saving the timber, but you need to consider how much teak and everything else went to the bottom before the Nazis were bombed into defeat.

[alan white]

no Alan you are quite wrong, over a million have died , it is fact
USA has been in 28 wars since WW2 If she had kept her nose out of the worlds affairs, and no matter what, it was not her business, all that reds under bed stuff, if she had not spent trillions on arms over the years, your people would be fed clothed educated
As it stands 35% of you live below poverty line and just a few % are educated
in germany as you know, everyone speaks a second language and most are educated with full bellys Hitler did not do as much harm as your guys are doing you , Nuff lecturing you know all this And you also know that every email you send is in cia database

At least insofar as making a point, a few hundred thousand are a lot of people.

[alan white]

If I was just looking at her as an old boat I would have to agree with you, but the opening line from post #1 has Hermann Gorring as the first two words. She is not being presented as a boat but as a Nazi boat.
I could probably support saving the timber, but you need to consider how much teak and everything else went to the bottom before the Nazis were bombed into defeat.

That Allied teak must be mad as hell. At least we are still around to avenge it.
Are you saying that because the initial poster used Goering's name first, you recommend dismantling the boat?

[murdomack]

We are still around but countless millions are not. God knows how many millions died from strategies planned on board.
I am not recommending dismantling the boat or having anything to do with the boat, merely saying that I could probably support it if that was what most people felt should be done.
I am saying that the initial poster opened his post highlighting a Nazi boat.

[alan white]

Millions have died, it's true. My only point was that it is the importance we give to things, whether ones race/creed or who once owned a boat, that makes us become emotional and become driven by other's ideas.
A boat is a boat. To attach more meaning to it requires other's knowledge to determine your path.
Isn't that what led Hitler to despise Jews? If he had never heard that Jews were inferior, he might never have done them harm. and had you chanced upon Goering's boat and not known of our culture's hatred of Goering, maybe that boat would not be threatening.

[murdomack]

The boat is not threatening but its past owner was and no matter how we look at it, his Nazism will always be highlighted whenever the boat is mentioned, as is happening in this thread.
All links that throw light on Nazism need to be removed and not encouraged. Our love of boats should not supersede our love for our fellow humans, especially those who made the supreme sacrifice for us all.

[Meanz Beanz]

NO! Forget and you are doomed to repeat, these things need to see the harsh light of day and scrutiny.

Again, its a boat, built by skilled people not that different to shippys everywhere, respect their work, their efforts, their lives. Its not an either or choice as you present it... love the craft hate man kind is childishly simplistic. Like I said before find a constructive purpose for it.... move in a positive direction now or again risk traveling the same paths we have tragically travelled in the past.

Hating an object is irrational and misdirected.

Last word from me.

CYA.

[TollyWally]

Obviously this subject brings emotionalism close to the surface for many people, myself included. A few pragmatists have made some rather practical observations yet I stand by my first post.

There is a standard rule of civilized discourse that states that one may attack the message but not the messenger. In that spirit I would invite Lazeyjack to closely examine some of his statements and reflect upon whether or not he would really like to be placed in the situation of defending his position from a close and rational analysis.

"that bastard is as bad as Hitler,"
"Hitler did not do as much harm as your guys are doing you , "

Would the rest of you in Europe or Australia really rather live in an alternative universe where we had not put forth the blood and treasure to thwart the Axis's plan for your homelands? What would your lives in Europe be like if the Soviets had been unchecked in the post WW2 era?

I am an American, a proud American, a member of a flawed but fundementally good place. I will not stand by quietly and let offensive slurs of such a despicable nature be uttered in my presence, either virtual or real, unchallenged.

[murdomack]

Back in the 50's, when I was young, the guys from the war era would only say, when we mentioned Germans, "You either have them at your feet or at your throat". Life has moved on and having worked and lived in Germany and worked in other places with Germans, I know that they are like the rest of us, good and bad. They were ordinary people led into evil by Hitlers Nazis.

Regarding Lazeyjacks statements that offend Tolly Wally and probably a lot of other Americans and non-Americans, I don't have any proof that they are correct but there are a lot of people in America and throughout the world who are very afraid that they could be. There is a lot of stuff that does not add up in this world, not just in the US.

I have worked alongside Americans for most of my life and their desires are the same as mine, and I and everyone else appreciate the blood and sweat that they provided to beat back the Axis's plans. The treasure was a loan and has been totally repaid in the last few years.

Regarding the Soviet threat to Europe after the war, Churchill wanted to push north from Italy, after the allies took control of that area, and split the German Army, thereby stopping the Russian advance and annexing of the Eastern European countries. The American President would not support him and insisted that all the effort had to come from the Western front. There is a firmly held view that there was already a deal between America and Russia to control Europe between them. Given Europes history that would have made sense.

The big question that the world faces today is, who controls Russia and America?

[masalai]

And I thought wanton destruction was the province of "illiterate natives" who had no idea of how to effectively use something - I have seen that all too often in my limited travels/travails...

[safewalrus]

A lot of things come down to symbolism, and symols invoke reactions - thats why people have them! Some good, some bad. If bad they must be destroyed for the good of all (if they affect all?!) and when something becomes a symbol that too must go the same way, no matter what it was before!! That boat has become a symbol.................................................oh what boat is that?


In another vein I see from quotes that 'lazybrain' is still being vitrolic to all and thoughtlessly (?) stirring up the dung as is his wont - luckily he is and has been for some time on my "ignore list" so I don't have to read his insulting ramblings - a well reccomended recourse for anyone else so offended

[Metronicity]

Torch
dont be bloody daft, there is an acre of teak in there, and timber is a scarce resource. I am all for recycle
indeed she must have been well made, and the men who built her, like you and I
Strange she must be copper sheeved, else the worm would b e into that oak like fruitcake

Quite right. 90 foot of Burmese Teak - a dwindling resource fast being destroyed by those ******* generals in "Myanmar". Takes a teak tree 120 years to mature.

Copper sheathed? Try 20cm of GRP. Original weight was 70 tons, now 77. Has mahogany bulkheads/fittings inside.

[Metronicity]

The boat is not threatening but its past owner was and no matter how we look at it, his Nazism will always be highlighted whenever the boat is mentioned, as is happening in this thread.
All links that throw light on Nazism need to be removed and not encouraged. Our love of boats should not supersede our love for our fellow humans, especially those who made the supreme sacrifice for us all.

What rot! So you'd destroy all Mercedes-Benz? Rip up the autobahns? Demolish the Brandenburg gate? Ban the playing of Wagner? I-T-S J-U-S-T A B-O-A-T. Albeit a very well-built boat. Out of a now endangered and scarce resource - Burmese Teak (nothing better). Fattie had her for just 8 years out of her 71.

[Metronicity]

Bottom line she's knackered, doesn't matter who built her or why! or who the hell you want for the next Pope, who killed cock robin or any other outlandish thing that has happened -let her go! Would you keep your Grannies body stuffed and on the mantlepiece because she was yer granny?

"Knackered"? Define "knackered". If you mean she's tired and neglected...well yes. But I 'd wager that double diagonal Burmese Teak and oak under the 2 inches of fibreglass is doing quite nicely. Maybe the fastenings aren't as healthy. She also had two Benz diesels fitted in 1983 which haven't been run in awhile but I'm told they were "put away nicely" - whatever that means.

Oh wait...the Nazis drove Benz. Yeah sink the bastard thing - along with the rest of Germany. The whole country is tainted by its past.

[Wynand N]

"Knackered"? the Nazis drove Benz. Yeah sink the bastard thing - along with the rest of Germany. The whole country is tainted by its past.

Does this means I must get rid of my Audi :eek: Damn nice car to waste, even thought it burns diesel.....sorry Rudolph..

[tuantom]

Why is this thread not titled "A Motor Yacht rotting away in the Red Sea?"

[Manie B]

yes yes yes

[masalai]

Maybe it is another "red herring thrower" enjoying the drivel from the mouths of .....

A boat is a boat and by the posts, seems uncommonly well built, and whosoever restore her to useful sailing - good on you...

[RHP]

Evening all !! :D

[Metronicity]

Why is this thread not titled "A Motor Yacht rotting away in the Red Sea?"

Pretty obvious. I gave it that title to stir up interest. Although I do keep pointing out that Göring only owned the vessel for 8 of its 71 years. BTW the Germans made a flick called Schtonk in '92 - a parody of the Hitler Diaries farce. Was nominated for an Acadamy Award. And they used a Dutch canal barge as a replica for Carin II.

Maybe the Burmese Junta would be interested in her?

[masalai]

Only if they can commandeer her as they have done to several loads of aid so far - too scared to go the the really needy areas so set up a stage to show off for the STATE OWNED media in their freshly starched "working cloths" - the latest designer wear for military dictators....

[murdomack]

What rot! So you'd destroy all Mercedes-Benz? Rip up the autobahns? Demolish the Brandenburg gate? Ban the playing of Wagner? I-T-S J-U-S-T A B-O-A-T. Albeit a very well-built boat. Out of a now endangered and scarce resource - Burmese Teak (nothing better). Fattie had her for just 8 years out of her 71.

It's not just A BOAT, read the first post. The boat is mentioned after the Nazi. It is being presented for sale as a NAZI BOAT. Mercedes-Benz was around before Hitler was born.
The Allied Liberators that I talked to in the fifties said Germany was in smithereens when they arrived with there tanks. Any buildings left standing were shelled until all resistance was overcome. America rebuilt Germany under the Marshall Plan while Britain paid them back for every penny that they lent us, for every ship that they built for us and for every cargo, even the ones that went to the bottom of the ocean.
They also told me that when they liberated your city, Paris, they found that a lot of your citizens had very cosy deals going with the Nazis and many had collaborated with the SS in sending people to the gas ovens.
I don't care what happens to the boat, I just hate seeing anyone glorifying the Nazis. I am just amazed at how quickly people have forgotten what they owe the previous generations.

[safewalrus]

If it's "just a boat" why are you going on about it so much?

[masalai]

Arrrrrrrh do i detect a pirate flag hereabouts Arrrrrrgh

[RHP]

I don't care what happens to the boat, I just hate seeing anyone glorifying the Nazis. I am just amazed at how quickly people have forgotten what they owe the previous generations.


That was the only point I was trying to make when this bunfight kicked off. Good to see we have come the full circle!

[Paulo.AS]

Metronicity,

I followed your link.
All this hoopla for this POS? Too bad it isn't on the bottom yet.
And this german reporter that owned it and is now in poverty, I couldn't care less. He appers to be some Nazi scholar which in itself speaks against him.

:idea: I propose a contest to choose the best way to get rid of Carin II !!

As a prize for the best idea the winner gets the right to piss on Goering grave:D