Chinese Boatbuilders??

[sandersc]

Does anybody know about any good and reliable Chinese boat builders or shipyards we can contact in regards to building GRP sailing catamarans for the European markets

Thanks

[Manie B]

Although it possibly could be done i dont think it is worth it. Firstly read stranded mariners web http://strandedmariner.wordpress.com/2007/11/19/dix-43-sv-waratah/ he has got some very very interesting reading there. Secondly i have imported some compaction equipment from china during 2006 / 2007 and i know other guys that did as well - NEVER AGAIN endless shit with everything you could think of and then some more. To build a boat is 1. hull and deck = very carefull / meticilous working with resin 2. interior finish = constant supervision.

THEY CANT DO IT - SAY I

My 2 cents worth is that there are MANY worldclass builders in Cape Town that build floating palaces that the average South African can only dream about. If you know what you are doing and you have the right product you could do it here.

Any way why go there they are already pouring in here, if you need them - there are thousands in Kempton Park

[Landlubber]

Build at home, you have far better control on your product, and no Asian Bullshit to have to deal with.

[Ike]

As they say, ya pays your money and you takes your choice.

Taiwan
http://www.yachtworld.com/byp/categories/BoatBuildersManufacturers/BoatBuilders_Int_Taiwan.html.en

also try http://www.solarnavigator.net/boat_builders_international.htm

[CTMD]

What size cats are you looking to build? How many?

[keanu916]

If you want GRP rescue boat or free-falling resure boat,I can help,I am in China,and in our city we have many factory producing these GRP rescue boats.

[Pericles]

Gunboats are built in Cape Town.

http://www.gunboat.com/gunboat_flash.html

African Cats are built somewhere.:D :D :D

http://www.africancats.com/contact.asp

Do you speak Mandarin?

Sine qua non.

pericles

[sandersc]

Guys, If I don't ask questions, I won't get answers. Thanks for al;l the comments thus far.

[StrandedMariner]

Guys, If I don't ask questions, I won't get answers. Thanks for al;l the comments thus far.

I have been working in China in the marine industry for 14 years now. I decided to have my boat built in South Africa. There is one good boat builder in China, since the 80's, Seahorse Marine in Zhuhai. Problem is they are fully booked for years, so that was no option. The others? Quality is the main issue. I am a member of the Shanghai Boat and Yacht Club. We have to sail on a lake, because there is nowhere else to go at present. Some of our members have 5.8 meter open FRP boats from a company in South China. They have been building boats for almost 10 years. Their relatively simple designs still have serious quality issues. China still can not produce any high class polyester resin and gelcoat. All has to be imported for anything else than basic industrial use. So it's expensive. China does not have any boating supply chain which can deliver any quality you and I would like to have on our boat. That means all the equipment has to be imported.
I have seen their stainless steel cleats. Looks nice, but won't hold up if put to the test. I could go on, but I won't. I will keep checking the quality in China, but right now, I am less than impressed.

[masalai]

sandersc, consider Australia... visit your local Australian Embassy/consulate for info...

[zhaohuifrancis]

sandersc,


We are a professional fiberglass boat build company.Please visit www.hzdyh.cn. If you are interested, you can contact us by zhaohuifrancis@163.com OR zgm621215@yahoo.com.cn.

THank you!

[Landlubber]

The front page says it all!

[masalai]

zhaohuifrancis, It would be a slight help if the page was in English? - - (I will settle for American) - - most? me anyway, have disabled typefaces for languages I don't understand. mainly for convenience and to save a gross waste of time in downloading something that does not make sense as I cannot translate...

[Manie B]

front page dont work

[zhaohuifrancis]

Sorry guys,I'll make our website better ,but ,you know ,it will take some time.

So ,Can you tell me what kind of yacht you want to build, please send pictures or descriptions of the yacht to me zhaohuifrancis@163.com.

Looking forward to cooperating with you.

[masalai]

No thanks, will have it done in Aussy...

[Landlubber]

It is always better masalai to have it done than it is to be done!

[masalai]

Well put and punned, Thanks Landlubber... :D

[SunKing]

I am a custom boatbuilder in Florida. Never built a big cat but I am getting real familiar with them. Any reason you would not use a US builder? From what I see the African and French cats go for, I could build it for half that price here. After delivery costs we could get one to Europe even cheaper than the Asians, I have found.

What am I missing? I'll price your boat, I speak English and there won't be any wait. Brits are buying everything over here, taking advantage of the miserable dollar. Why not buy cats too?

[lazeyjack]

Does anybody know about any good and reliable Chinese boat builders or shipyards we can contact in regards to building GRP sailing catamarans for the European markets

Thanks

you could do well to research Poland
they were our allies, in WW2, Trustworthy honest and reliable
Since Eu expansion they have been flocking to GB, and are the most welcome of the immigants But I know many would rather be at home, Do some research, i heard of a KIWI looking seriously at the place Unless I were big, and very powerful, and spoke manderin, I would not consider China Word seems to be something that is not necessary to hold. In other words generally speaking , you can not be sure you can trust the Chinese. Or India, indians, are completely honest, look a t the 1`0000,s tourists who have rugs sent back, they always arrive, their word is good, ask Brett Lee:))

[Joman]

Hi,

I visited the china boat exhibition in shanghai. What I have seen of chinese manufacturers didn't really attract me.

Boats have not many details and look boring. The cheap price has also its reason. I guess its fibreglass with a core. Bigger core then fibreglass of course. So if the boat gets a deep scratch and water gets into the core the boat will start to fall apart. And cats usually don't get out of water very often.

So better higher price and quality.

[jusembo]

I'm Belgian cabinet maker running here for 8 years now we're developing a small boat yard
Our preference is wooden molding but I may consider any serious partnership in GRP manufacturing

[david@boatsmith]

We are in Florida. We are competetive on the world market. Connect with me and let's discuss your needs David boatsmithfl.com cheers

[the1much]

sandersc,


We are a professional fiberglass boat build company.Please visit www.hzdyh.cn. If you are interested, you can contact us by zhaohuifrancis@163.com OR zgm621215@yahoo.com.cn.

THank you!

the freakin first page,,,is the ONLY page,,,and all it is , is a picture of a boat,,then they animated little lines going across to make it look like it was a video of the boat.,,,,and you guys build quality boats??
ive stayed away from this thread cause of my "crulity to dough-heads" chages,,,,but geesh,,,,,,he's only looking at china cause he THINKS it'll be cheap,,,,well it will be built cheap,,,thats as far as "cheap" will go.
,,,,,,,,,,o.k. ,,,,holdin my tongue hehe :D;)

[Landlubber]

Much and others,

China boatbuilding.....instant experts.

This is the history of Jusembo....now claiming to be a quality boatyard
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/search.php?searchid=1302887

Read his 28 posts....then decide if you want to play boats in China.......

[jusembo]

Sir, i'm very sorry but my english is too poor to catch the (under)sens of you message... If you have any clear critics to formulate about me, my business or my boats :confused: please do it!

Weanwhile, "instant ... expert" remind me a little story happend 8 years ago, in 2001 during the fair "Masion & Objets" the world leading exhibition for furniture and decorative items.
It was our (me and my wife) first participation with a micro-stand of 9M2.
One day, a visitor, a French traditionnal upholsterer, very proud of him self (probably well known in his village ;) ) used an esoteric term during our (short) conversation ... something like "Bergere en cabriolet" or any floweries like this and as i'm usually very honest i told him : " What Bergere?" on it he answered me "I see you're a opportunist of the moment" and free himself immediately after theses words.
Today i am, in term of scale and especially in term of quality , in the topest few "French style traditionnal furniture manufacturers" and the only one established out of Europe.

History is going and often repeating...you will not stop the stream.

It doesn't mean Chinese manufacters are not making shit, mainly they do, it's the local speciallity ... but things are changing fast ...very fast if comparing to "old world" and if we may say 10 years ago: 1% were doing top stuff, they are 10% now and 20 very soon.

Last but not least, basing on my experience, i may say that today China is an exceptionnal potting compost for thoses who desire to concrete their dreams and readdy to challenge.

[Landlubber]

David,

Mate, I am sure that you personal work as a craftsman is beyond repute.

It is the fact that you put yourself up as a boatbuilder, and when we see the time that you have been building boats (less than 6 months ), it is a real concern.......sure make your boats, and hopefully one day you will be able to produce a decent cold moulded or strip plank boat, but to start trying to suck in customers after asking how to build one 6 months ago is a bit rich in my books.

We have to do a 4 year apprenticeship before we would even think of calling ourselves a boatbuilder.

Yes things are changing fast in China, and they will continue to do so, but everything they build at present is a cardboard cut out replica of the real thing!

The unfortunate thing about building boats in China, is that the Chinese really are not boat people....sure they have their fishing boats, but only for business, not because they love boating, and the poor buggers have NO vocational training at school to even introduce them to the real world of manufacture and construction. It is monkey see, monkey do, and unfortunately they were and still are in places, being trained by Taiwanese boatbuilders of the late 70's and 80's, who made the worst piles of cheap crap the world ever saw in boats.

David, all the best in your venture, quality is what makes your name stand out, quality is remembered long after price is forgotten.

[the1much]

its hard standing up for your country,,,when your country only allows you to see what they want you to see,,,,and since the government owns everybody and all their things,,,,,what will happen once you become the best boat builder there?,,,,your made to work making the governments boats for a bucket of rice and water.
i REALLY shouldnt comment on anything bout china,,,im kinda really against helping a society that doesnt allow their people to be real people,,,,,,and a government that takes accident victims as hostages,,< no i dont want to start THAT subject.,,,,,,,,,but i do commend you on doing your thing in a place that makes it soooo HARD for you to be successful.
and thinking your the best is good for ya,,,,ACT like your the best,,,,,,,but dont ever KNOW your the best,,,,cause your not,,probably never will be,,,,,the "best" builders is ALWAYS learning, always asking,,,and always telling himself he ISNT the best,,and strives to get better.
keep up the work your doing now,,,,,MAYBE 1 day you'll be close to the best,,hehe :D

[jusembo]

1-To correct a small misunderstanding, i started to build the first 6,5m boat in 2003 and it took us 4 years / 3000 hours.
As reminder it is a fully monohull construction with continue planking from the bottom to the coaming ("hiloire" in French)
Because of this huge amount of H-W, i hardly believe it should has to be possible to envisage such project, today, in a high cost labor country.
The 6 month you mentioned was for the second one. (attached picture)
The second misunderstanding is that if you read my post I'm not "sucking" customers but just looking for partnership what is quite different.

2-Do you need to be boat people to build boat?
And do you need to be French to manufacture French style furniture?
Definitely not! Theses are outdated concepts that can reassure only those who are concerned. Those who are in the "right side"
As you say you need 4 years of apprenticeship to change an in experimented young man into a boat builder; what is 4 years? and what about making a boat builder from a high skilled cabinetmaker? 2 years? 12 month? ... peanuts.

My personal opinion is that you're building realities just to reassure yourself

And about socials concerns, sure this country (which is not and will never be mine) is probably not a reference but do you really believe that being in relation with a crook will make it worst? I think if you're a "good one" it can only make him better :)

China is an heterogeneous system subjected to many critics some are probably right but some are just created by fear reaction. This system has a lot to learn from us but it has also tremendous amount to teach. Why not to observe this accelerated motion and learn from it as much as it learn from us.

Being holed like scared dogs can only bring tragic consequences

[Ike]

I disagree with Landlubber that all boats that came out of Taiwan were crap. Some were. But some were very good. There are still some yards there buidling quality yachts. Most of those are owned by non-Taiwanese companies but the people who do the craftsmanship are chinese.

China has been building boats for thousands of years, but not in modern factories using high tech materials and processes. Like all things, it takes time, and in articles I have read about the new boat factories in China they readily admit that their products are not yet up to western standards. But mostly those products are aimed at the nouveau riche in China, not at western markets.

A couple of years ago, a delegation of people from the US boating Industry, including NMMA, ABYC and others, went to China to present to the boat manufacturers there western standards for recreatonal boats. They were well recieved and the Chinese were eager to learn and develop an ongoing relationship with standards organizations such as ABYC and ISO. So eventually we may see some very good recreatioanl boats coming out of mainland China. But not right now. However, this doesn't mean they can't be proud of what they have done in a few short years and doesn't mean there aren't good boatbuilders there.

As for the political issues, I spent 20 years of my life working for the US government in Washington DC and there is a lot to be desired. I hate getting involved in political discussions. Let's keep it to boat designing and building.

[david@boatsmith]

Landlubber perhaps you don't know what we have bee doing prior to the last six months or even the last ten years cheers David

[Ike]

This reminded me of a conversation I had with the owner of a Taiwanese built Trawler Yacht, back in the late 80's. After answering his question I asked him how he liked his boat. He said he liked it fine, it was a really good boat. But, he said, unfortunately it came as a loosely assembled kit and after spending several years putting all the pieces together properly it was a really good boat. "If I had wanted to buy a kit, I would have bought one."

[Manie B]

Ike you are very correct

several years putting all the pieces together properly

[the1much]

thats cause he read the directions,,hehe :D:P;)

[StrandedMariner]

Landlubber perhaps you don't know what we have bee doing prior to the last six months or even the last ten years cheers David

I have seen Chinese boat building for the past 10 years, and I am not impressed. And I am not only talking about the 'quality'. I have been screwed over so many times in this country. Unless there is some major shift in mind set here, I stay away from teaming up with any Chinese boat builder.

[jusembo]

I understand very well you felling but please don't generalize.
Don't make an universal reality.
Sure it's not easy to settle a good and long term partnership wit local manufacturers but it's possible and if you have experience, ability and knowledge of this particular environment you even can realise it with a high percentage of success.
On another side you still have the opportunity to run it by yourself what many foreigners (include myself) do by opening WOFE (Whole Owned Foreign Enterprise). This is a quiet heavy structure but still affordable to small entrepreneurs.
Some sectors, and boatbuilding is one of them, are still under special policy to allow foreign control.
My personal advise to potential, small entrepreneur is to start business carefully and slowly and always be on the lookout for reliable persons who may sometimes appear from unexpected origins:) don't throw yourself in thrusty relation with the first people even he seems great, generous and meet all your expectations (philosophical, financial or any others) you may regret it several years later; deeply. Be aware, attentive, receptive to any signs, try to translate and understand them correctly what is the most difficult task encountered by foreigners in this country.
Building business in China take time, there's no shortcut, especially for small and middle size investors.

An other "style" is just satisfy by buying finished, ready to sell product ... in what i personally don't believe, it's probably ok for large consumption stuff but not in a niche market as quality boats ... ok i know ... i'm also generalizing ... so lets say you will find few rare reliable Boatbuilders in China mainly are foreign owned including owned by bordering country that i will not name to avoid additional debates. David

[the1much]

the hard thing for you is that it isnt that people dont want to do business with you,,,they dont want to do business with your government,,,,,too much red tape,,,and the gov. WILL not try to help the foreigner if they have a problem with someone like you,,,,,,,say i pay you half for a boat up front,,,,,then in a year you say,,," sorry man,, we just cant do it,, and i dont have your money",,,,what can i do about it?,,go to the officials and they say,," we'll look into it",,,,and that IS the end of the story,,,,,,and i lose out,,,,because that IS what they do,,,,there are thousands of " for instances".
you need to become good,,,and then go to a place where your customers feel safe that if you screw up, they can have something done about it.
dude,, im not putting you down AT ALL... in fact i think that b oat looks badass,,,,,,its 1 of those things where YOUR not being judged,,,but your "Home" is.

[jusembo]

Important is the man not the home

Although half million foreigners are living only in Shanghai city; China is not a play ground, it's why i insisted in my previous messages that anyone who want to make business here especially in an un-mature field like boat building and put chances on his side need experience. If you just content yourself by sending 50% deposit and waiting you boat to be done without even visit the yard your chances approaching close to zero.
There are much more peoples that we can imagine who're seeing business in this way.
Every system has his own security management, you need to know the mechanic to reduce the danger, evaluate the risk and the profit you can get from.
I met many so-called business man ... who believed in miracles and for who China was synonym of easy earning before to become synonym of descent into Hell. Theses guys are now sitting home behind their computers blaming and spitting; creating realities on peoples, countries and system instead of reappraise them self.


Stay home it's more comfortable and safe

[the1much]

hmmm,,, i used to build yachts in the millions of dollars,,,and the "owner" would sometimes show up,,,but not often,,they usually had a surveyor do the visits,,and your asking now that people take a "chance" with their money,,when they KNOW that the "authorities" will not stand behind them if theres problems,,,,,thats a point that can NOT be argued against,,,,theres thousands of examples to show this.,,,,and why are the business men that you have met such idiots?,, because their "want-to-be" business people with NO business sense,,,and their also the only ones willing to take such a high risk with their money,,,oh wait,,,9.9 times out of 10 ,,, its not even their money,,, its poor people that they swindled into investing in them.
and i dont say this to be rude what-so-ever. ,,like i said,,,,its not YOUR fault that we dont "invest",, and thats sad,,,because if you learn a few more basics,, you'd be a good builder,,,,,but your also to quick to think your already a builder,,,,,,just because you build 1 or 2 boats dont make you a builder,,,but this isnt "putting you down",,not at all,,,but to be honest,,, you think you guys (you and your helpers) are WAY better then you are.
i can make a boat that wouldnt float,, has NO insides,,,,but i could make it look like it was the best boat you've ever seen.,,,,,,my boat wouldnt be worth calling a "boat" until it has been proven to be a "boat".

[jusembo]

High profit / High risk
Low profit / Low risk

:idea:

Every level of countrie's developpement reflect a level of risk. If you plane to buy/manufacture your boat in China, Brasil or Senegal you will be confronted to a specific level of risk. The ration is not worst in China than in another under/middle/high developped country. I will personnaly said it's better it's the reason why so many investors are here but sure it depend on what importance you may attach to every component of the study.
For exemple: following TI corruption organisation http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2007
China is rated 72th from 179 country where Thailand is 84 and Russia 150 ... HK is rathed 14th fare befor US that is 20th not so nice for N°1 isn't it?.
Most of Chinees manufacturers owned companies in HKG so you may have the opportunity to sign your contract there.
Another safe solution is to make business with foreign owned factories as i am, there are several in Zuhai industrial district and you may envisage to place your order at their head office in their original country but don't expect incredible prices. I will be happy to take your order in Belgium, i have no problem with this. Is Belgium safe enough for you ? :)

As you see solutions exist ... but as we say in French "Si tu veux le beurre, l'argent du beurre et le sourire de la crémière..." translate "If you want butter, money and the smile of the sales-girl"

[Landlubber]

David,

Nothing has changed and nothing is going to change till workers get BASIC training in boatbuilding skills....note I said boatbuilding skills, not cabinetmaking.....

There is ONLY one way anyone will get a decent boat out of China, it HAS to be supervised by a qualified or very experienced BOATBUILDER.....there are sooooooo many subtle little things that cabinetmakers do not undrestand about boatbuilding, bilge pumps, enging exhaust arrangements, toilet plumbing, current world standards, rigging, painting, composites....I could go on and on.

A real boat is a miniature city, it has an electrical system, engineering system, steerung system, sanitation system, electronis, generators, and all these little suckers need to be bpth compatible with themselves as well as the marine environment with which they will live in after they leave China....

it is AFTER they leave China that the problems will show thier ugly little faces.

Anyhow mate, enough of this bashing, I do honestly wish you all the best, i work in China myself and love being here, I see all the great changes that are happening (and all the boat problems too unfortunately). seriously, stick with what you really know, the rest will come easy.

[the1much]

honk kong IS china,,,theres NO difference NOW.
and noone said those "other" countries are better,,,,i wouldnt send 1 dollar to those places either ,,,and theres a BIG difference between "risk" and "stupidity"
and you have the proper "paper work" and licenses to work and sell in belgium?
if my order is taken in belgium is my boat ( the thing that matters where it is being made) being built under their authority?

[jusembo]

Landlubber

We're in 2008
Men walked on the moon 40 years ago
We're not, here, talking about hydropteres or high-tech catamarans ... just common boats ... ok they need bilge pumps, toilet plumbing and other curiosities but lets come back to the reality.
With basic knowledge in laminating fibers, sealing, paintings, electricity, motorisation and others you have enough to build a normal decent boat ... the most important is to be carreful and loving to do nice & professional job.
I admit that this last point is not common in China due to it's recent history but when you as a factory GM have it in you soul you can require it and little by little contaminate your staff.

Dvd

[jusembo]

the1much

You seems to know "much" about China, Hongkong and so many others

Have ever been there? Have you ever been really interested about it ??

Please make me a pleasure:
look at you in the mirror, ask this question to yourself - answer in silence and most important ... keep the answer for your. Don't publish it anywhere :)

I will not answer to your question where you want to know: if it's under Belgiaan authority to order a boat in Belgium with a Belgiaan company ... because i'm afraid i will fall groggy before the end.

Really, the1much, you should play somewhere else. I will search for and recommend you some other site more suitable for you

[the1much]

ummm dudbumbo,,,,,,i was being nice,,,wasnt putting you down,,,was just stating FACTS,,,and somehow KNEW that when you was asked about the "legality" of your "mouth" you would fold,,,,,,is sad,,, i was really on your side,,, was stating facts as to why it would be hard for you to find "customers",,, but since you THINK you know what your doing,,,, ask yourself this, standing in front of a mirror naked,,,,,,,"6 months ago i was asking how to cold mold,,,,now im on the same forum trying to tell the SAME people that i know what im doing and how good i am"
and dumbo,,,,if you wanna PLAY,,,i will :)
but,,be sure that i dont play very nice in the sandbox.
guess this will be the last time i stand up for a china person.
and yet you wonder what gives you guys a bad reputation. "!"

[Landlubber]

jusembo,

"workers get BASIC training in boatbuilding skills"...isn't this what I just said to you.......
"With basic knowledge "....can only agree mate, they do need BASIC knowledge...and until that happens, well....i do not wish to go on any more....good luck.

[jusembo]

Dear, aren't we here for that? Teaching and spreading our knowledge for a better world?? and same time for our own profit ??
The flood level is different ... i'm a communicating vessel as you probably are and many many others.
the1muchless is a little dirt in the pipe

[jusembo]

for you:

http://www.4399.com/flash/7097_1.htm

have a lot uf fun!!

David

PS: If you don't understand how to do just post your questions on the forum there will be a lot of little Chinees happy to chat with you and be your friends

:P

[genuinemarine]

I decided to join this conversation with David about this topic.

I am a Chinese who had been in the yacht building business for around 4 years and now running a small marine accessory company here since 2005.

We are dealing with most of the yacht builders in China and should be in a better position to talk with any mate here about building boats in China.

I had a similar discussion with some mates about the same topic long time ago.

James

[jusembo]

Time is going and history is repeating.... :)

So what's your opinion James? How is yachtbuilding today and how much progess since 4 years?
Is it thrue that foreign investment are under restrictive policy?
I saw several huge operations in Zuhai boatbuilding industrial zone; who are they? mainly foreign investors, local or joint-ventures? Are they principally oriented to re-export or to local market ....
Last but not least: what about sailing driving licence how easy peoples can enjoy sailing

PS: Maybe should be nice to slide this thread to a more suitable location??

[lazeyjack]

you know, boatbuilding is a very personal business, a man and his boat
In the Western world, a lie is the worst crime of all
I think Chinese are not so honest
Along with Turks
I recently tried start yachtbuilding in the latter, and found nothing but lies
No I would not trust Chinese, full of lies and bullshit, as seen in the GAMES
But make no mistake, they will one day rule the world

[the1much]

see dumbo,,,,again you prove that your nothing at all,,,,,,im pretty sure if you could even start to read and understand what you were reading,,, you would of seen i was PRAISING you,,,,but you the usual ignorant chinease dude that has a "complex" about where you live,,,,and since you cant even understand my SIMPLE english,,,,do you really think anyone reading this thread is going to think your even smart enough to learn the BASICS?
oh well,,,, idiots like you make people like me with 3 brain cells look so very much smarter then we really are,,,,,,,,thanks.

[Butch .H]

"David" and "James" are the same idiot:P

[powerabout]

I took a megayacht back to a yard in Holland for some updates for a new owner 15 years ago
All 105 staff in the yard had a boat!
that explains it all!
The Chinese were banned from going to sea after 1430 and only have just been allowed back so they have some catching up to do.
As mentioned above Taiwan and the others dont have quality chemicals so the end result is poor.
I thought the Chinese invented osmosis, is that true?

[the1much]

they invented the "oil drill",,,and the "basics" of that first design are still being used today,,,,,,i wonder if the dude that thought that up was an immediate pro........

[jusembo]

Sorry for that James i was not suspecting such serious mental regression.

I hope they're still minority over there otherwise they will soon drop their country in a third world position

From another side it will bring new opportunity for boatbuilding at cheap labor cost.


- Lazyjack will become Hardwork
- the1less will work instead of littering the posts along the day
- and F. Bitch, the smartest one ... hum ... let me see what may be suitable for him .. hum ... difficult, really difficult ...

ok just wait and see.

[jusembo]

Any other candidates??

[Butch .H]

Hey david(doos) are you the little frog or is james the little frog:P Had a look at your boat. I you uped your game a bit it may well be sutible fire wood.

[the1much]

again you prove me right,,, thank-you
not everyone has a talent like yours,,,, most people say thank-you when told how good your work is,,, most say thank-you when you tell them their doing alright in a place that makes it difficult,,,,,but not you,,,, you must bring yourself up to a fifth grade level to call people names and TRY to put them down,, just for saying your doing good.,,, did your mother teach you this? did your "daddy" "touch" you when you was a child?,, are you a crack-head?
what are ya gonna do when someone wants you to come to belgium to build their boat ,, because they like your work,, but not china???
well,,,, again,, thanks. hehe ;)

[Butch .H]

1much I think a crack head would have a little more finesse than our split personality freind james/david:D

[lazeyjack]

Sorry for that James i was not suspecting such serious mental regression.

I hope they're still minority over there otherwise they will soon drop their country in a third world position

From another side it will bring new opportunity for boatbuilding at cheap labor cost.


- Lazyjack will become Hardwork
- the1less will work instead of littering the posts along the day
- and F. Bitch, the smartest one ... hum ... let me see what may be suitable for him .. hum ... difficult, really difficult ...

ok just wait and see.

a lazeyjack is part of a yachts rig:)
I have worked hard all my life: with hands
still fish are biting well todayi i dont care what you say, my third adopted son is Chinese, done well here, I asked him why he does not have Chinese gal, says"they remind me of my mother"
Its the lies that do it for me, lies at the top, lies all round,

[Landlubber]

lazeyjack, et al,

The Chinese cannot "loose face", they claim it is traditional, but in fact came about with the advent of Communism in the early part of the 20th century, where it is Socialist policy to make everyone equal, thus eliminating responsibility and allowing all workers to share the fault of a bad worker. It has been introduced to Western society by the Socialists too, look at how people can claim it was the alcohol, i had a bad family life, I was too small, too big, not my fault....all reasons to shirk responsibility for your own actions.

It is unfortunate that the Chinese continue doing this, whilst embracing western cultures and improvements, as it is seriously holding back their ability to think for themselves and to be creative. It is the total lack of creativity that makes them become copiers, everything is a copy of western makings, but unfortunately they are cardboard copies, not the real thing, and generally are quite unsuitable for use as such.

Once they do learn to think for themselves and to be solely creative they will advance at a great rate of knots......until then, they will argue how good they are at copying everything and it is our fault we see the problems.

[jusembo]

I really tried my best to putting you lower than you are but i fell ... sorry i apologize in front of the humanity .... please forgive me... i give up ....

[jusembo]

Landlubber, i only 50% ... euh ... 40% agree with you.
If it came from communisme it should be same in Russia but it is not.
Russian are extremely creatives and have no problem with faces, their problem is rather with alcohol, laziness & vice.

In which business are you Landlubber ?

[Landlubber]

Boatbuilding

[powerabout]

The problem any Chinese business has now is that their fellow buddies have been working on cheap low quality sh1T in such a big that the rest of the world has trouble believing anything is quality.
Face = flash so where do all the fake watches bags etc go.
The number one motivation for the Chinese is
money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money money

not quality and reputation.

My wife is Chinese and in the boating industry and prefers never to deal with other Chinese as they want cheap sh1T for low price and cannot appreciate quality and service.

Its the same story in the aircraft, offshore, industrial plant etc.
From the top to the bottom staff are on the take and componentry is subsidised everywhere

The Chinese government has banned Chinese companies from supplying high pressure boilers to power plants due to the continued failures of the mild steel boilers made in China..of course they had documents to show the correct steel was used.
Had a colleague just tell me they had the same issue with a pressure vessel for an offshore installation, exploded at half working pressure under test.
Now everyone is looking for the material that was shipped from the US to the Chinese manufacturer and obviously substituted.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_06/b3919001_mz001.htm
http://www.atkearney.com/main.taf?p=5,1,1,115,2
http://www.notofakes.com/Home/tabid/71/Default.aspx
http://levin.senate.gov/newsroom/release.cfm?id=264528
http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidZAWYA20080209095325

[the1much]

geesh guys,,,,,it aint his fault he's brain dead,,,,,even the Olympians are leaving china cause the air is so bad,,,,,,they showed pictures of it,,,,,AFTER they shut down a bunch of factories during the games,,,hahaha,,,,,maybe we aint giving him enough credit??? ,,, for someone to even be able to read with 3.465 brain cells is quite the accomplishment!
hehe ,,,and since you like being "lower",,,,why dont we use them dumbo ears of yours for some ,,,ummmm,,,"relief" :P

[StrandedMariner]

I took a megayacht back to a yard in Holland for some updates for a new owner 15 years ago
All 105 staff in the yard had a boat!
that explains it all!
The Chinese were banned from going to sea after 1430 and only have just been allowed back so they have some catching up to do.
As mentioned above Taiwan and the others dont have quality chemicals so the end result is poor.
I thought the Chinese invented osmosis, is that true?

Nah, they invented oxygen, and golf, and snowboarding, and turds, and everything else of course. ;)

[jusembo]

Powerabout, you remind me this Californian artist who spend 1 year here, he hated China, Chinese and especialy he hated Chinese food....was only eating milkyrice and Crakers his mom was sending him by fast delivery
He fall crazy in love with a very young Chinese girl.

Till now i'm wondering how he fell when he was eating her ... yuk or mummm ?

I hate peoples who puke and eat in the same (rice) pot :)

[Skywoolf]

Guys, I am British and have lived in Hong Kong for most of the last 36 years. Although Hong Kong was handed back to China in 1997 it has hardly changed and is very different to China.

There is one very well known shipbuilder in Hong Kong - Choy Lee Shipyards - that have been in business for maybe 100 years. They built most of the ferries, some of which are extremely ancient and still in service and now build some very modern boats. I don't know if they build smaller boats and there are probably other experienced boat builders who build good modern boats in Hong Kong.

Personally the massive corruption and total lack of support for foreigners if they get cheated would be enough for me not to even think about the China mainland.

[Skywoolf]

P.S. The same applies for the the Philippines. Don't even think about it.

[Ilan Voyager]

We are in a boat design forum, so no politics. But consider the very different societies in Asia before trying to import an occidental democracy to people having none tradition of it.
My Russian friends have the worst remembering of the "democracy" of the nineties when the "hyenas" of the speculation were sucking down the economy.
What's the value of political freedom when you're starving to death?

Let's go back to boatbuilding. I'm old enough to have heard the same stuff about Japan (do you remember what was said in the sixties about Japan?), South Korea and India.

You're probably reading this post with a computer made in Korea or with components made and designed in Korea. South Korea has very good shipyards for big ships, so good that this tiny country is making 30% of the big ships of the world. What was South Korea 30 years ago? Now GM has to import Hyundai in Mexico to keep a part of car market here...ironic isn't?

Chinese are learning, they learn fast and are very able people...and wait, the Indians are coming.

To answer the primitive question; building a yacht in China?
I would say no for the moment. They have no experience in that domain.
Another country? You or your surveyor must be able to follow the construction in every detail, and some rules have to be followed like Det Norske Veritas or other to guaranty the results.
And if you have a problem, start a lawsuit in China?

I'm surprised how people are ready to send without any real guaranty several hundred thousands dollars to any guy promising great savings...

Even for a Mexican resident, it's very difficult to make a lawsuit to a indelicate provider in Florida, so imagine in China, Malaysia, Thailand or others.

There is no issue; good shipyards for yachts are in the countries having a tradition of sailing. It's a luxury thing in a very special market.

[the1much]

Ilan ,,, when you ask about boat builders in another country POLITICS are a VERY big part of that,,,no matter what country.

[Butch .H]

Um! James and David are not Chinese perse' They have business interests in China. They should know better:D

[genuinemarine]

Butch.H

Let me tell you right now: I am a 100% Chinese and I am very proud of it. I am thinking and judging about the background of you and from what kind of culture you are. To me you talk like somebody from under-developped countires, more like a politician. You should forget about boats and find a job in the government.

You want a debate with me and shoot !

[genuinemarine]

you know, boatbuilding is a very personal business, a man and his boat
In the Western world, a lie is the worst crime of all
I think Chinese are not so honest
Along with Turks
I recently tried start yachtbuilding in the latter, and found nothing but lies
No I would not trust Chinese, full of lies and bullshit, as seen in the GAMES
But make no mistake, they will one day rule the world

Lazeyjack, what makes you think Chinese are not so honest? You actually experienced it or you just think?

[genuinemarine]

"David" and "James" are the same idiot:P

Butch, To be honest with you you are not even qualified as an Idiot!!! I would bet more people in the industry would think David and I are smarter and richer than you.

[genuinemarine]

Hi, David, my friend,

Sorry I did not reply to you last thread in time but I had been very busy in the last couple of weeks.

I am thinking how many of you in this conversation have really actually involved themselves in the yacht building industry especially those like Butch.....

I have been in the yacht building industry from 2001 and initially I was building and selling yachts in a local yard then started my own business of selling marine parts in China together with my American parnter to whom I sold my first boat. I do not like the quality of the boats the yard built and that is the major reason I decided to set up my own business. Of course quality is a big issue for many yacht builders and some foreign people did have very bad experience for which I want to appology. But let us do not forget other good yards who are building Choeylee, Nordhavn, Selene, Jefferson, Ocean Alexlander, Hampton, Horizon, Monte Fino, HI-Star, Marlow, Trader, Queenship, Island Pilot, Kadey Krogen..... Just name a few (Somebody might want to say: wait a minute some of these boats are being built by Taiwanese who would not admit they were Chinese ignoring the fact that they have the same color of skin, use the same language, letters, traditions, cultures as well as their coutry name: Republic of China).


What puzzled me a lot is that I found many western people who have been building boats in China for years rarely involve themselves in this kind of topic and spread those subjective comment like somebody did here.

Bill Kimley, an American and owner of Seahorse Yachts in China has been building quality steel yachts for years. We know each other for a long time and everytime we see each other he is so nice.

David Winter, an American and owner of Red Dragon Yachts in China has been building yachts in China for a few years. We are very good friends and he never has that kind of hard feeling.

I am guessing what are the oppions of those guys who are building Ocean Alexander, Horizon, Selene, Nordhavn ..... about China.

Maybe they are also not smart just like David and I. Maybe we should invite some of them to join this conversation to be fair for all of us.

On the other hand, I am guessing that maybe Mr Butch has been living and building boats in China for years. He should know the yacht industry very well otherwise he should never talk like an expert about China yacht industry and act like he is smartest in the forum. So Mr Butch could you please brief everybody in this forum more in details about your China experience?

[the1much]

Butch, To be honest with you you are not even qualified as an Idiot!!! I would bet more people in the industry would think David and I are smarter and richer than you.

dude,, aint noone here calling you names,, we're giving opinions,,,,want to debate?,, im thinking its time for you ta shut ta F up.
wanna get personal?,, i bet my bank account that i'd make you look like a poor bustard in ANY country,,,wanna bet? , and just cause you may have built a floating dock,, dont make ya a boat builder. now go get some rice and chew on it.

[Butch .H]

Good night James.Try bronze and not brass in your fittings it lasts longer. I guess that is what you can expect from some one who takes 30 days to pay his creditors:D :D :D James my winky is bigger than your winky.

[genuinemarine]

dude,, aint noone here calling you names,, we're giving opinions,,,,want to debate?,, im thinking its time for you ta shut ta F up.
wanna get personal?,, i bet my bank account that i'd make you look like a poor bustard in ANY country,,,wanna bet? , and just cause you may have built a floating dock,, dont make ya a boat builder. now go get some rice and chew on it.


Buddy, I do not buy the way somebody give opinions here and so let us debate to figure out who is bla bla bla here.

I am amatured enough to avoid getting personal but if somebody starts it on me I do not care to play the game. You talk like Bill Gates but this forum is somewhere we show and share knowledge in boats, this thread is somewhere we compare our fortune and smartness in true knowledge of building boats in China. If you want to show off your politics and money find somewhere else.

You have no idea of what boats we used to build so now stop thinking and imaging about China from thousand miles away. Do some homework!

[genuinemarine]

Good night James.Try bronze and not brass in your fittings it lasts longer. I guess that is what you can expect from some one who takes 30 days to pay his creditors:D :D :D James my winky is bigger than your winky.

Good moring, Butch. I prefer stainless steel which is nicer and lasts much longer. Nobody cares about how long your winky is and what we care and expect from you in this thread is how much you really know about building boats in China.

So could you please spend a few minute in answering my above questions to justify your previous comments?

[the1much]

Buddy, I do not buy the way somebody give opinions here and so let us debate to figure out who is bla bla bla here.

I am amatured enough to avoid getting personal but if somebody starts it on me I do not care to play the game. You talk like Bill Gates but this forum is somewhere we show and share knowledge in boats, this thread is somewhere we compare our fortune and smartness in true knowledge of building boats in China. If you want to show off your politics and money find somewhere else.

You have no idea of what boats we used to build so now stop thinking and imaging about China from thousand miles away. Do some homework!

heh,, i never open my mouth before i do "my homework",, maybe you oughta stop living a dream and figure out maybe YOU should do your homework,,, wanna know my knowledge,, look up hinckleys, morriss , apogee's, and EVERY boat builder in downeast maine,,,,,you couldnt even start in them places as a floor sweeper,,,and YOUR the 1 talkin like gates,,YOU was the 1 tyhat wanted to compare bank accounts, YOU are the 1 that came on here asking ?'s about something you now say you are 1 of the best at doing,,, YOU are the 1 getting personal,,,,,should we go further?,, your BEST bet is to jus ignore me,,, or ill bring out just how good your work ISNT.

[Butch .H]

Hey Much what up man hows dem birds

[Butch .H]

James baby we carry(going to be carried) a numder of your products bud.Your l.e.d lights have mountings of brass.I can return them to you with your DC pannels for a refund. Plenty of comments posted on this site and you are stupid enough to single out the only one on this thread that imports(going to be imported) your product what a dumb ass

[the1much]

Hey Much what up man hows dem birds

they keep changing hands,, i have em for a week or 2,, then out they go,, and i get more,,hehe ,, but MY personal birds are doing great ! i even caught a "lilac crowned amazon" 3 or 4 days ago in my tree hahaha,, stupid things sell between $800 , and 1400 ,,, how stupid are people,,hehe ;)
hows all going with you?

[Butch .H]

Hey Much all good Old James baby has got me packing all his crap ready to ship back to the agents:D :D . What the hell is a "lilac crowned amazon". Sounds rough:D :D

[the1much]

sounds like a puss to me,, i hate telling people what he is hahaha :D:D
http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q333/the1much/100108_142700.jpg

[Butch .H]

Proof Money does grow up in trees well hatch any way :D

[the1much]

selling him gonna be PURE PROFIT ,,, man i love those words hehe :D
oh,, ive sold another 142 birds today,,, ta hell with boat building hehe ;)

[Butch .H]

I wonder how many chickens I could fit in the boat:D

[the1much]

i would think they would help on the flotation,,, they are water proof hehe :D

[Butch .H]

Plucking good idea that

[jusembo]

James don't waist time with these under-developed brains forget them for a while. You're too kind (or too naive) to believe some professionals will joint this thread, maybe some psychiatrist interested in brain decadency but nobody from boat business ... 10 years later, after having completely destroyed their economy, they will come to your boatyard in China and beg for a job. I would never imagine such peoples exist in "developed" country and especially in such field as boat; in Europe we still believe boat is for an educated elite but when i see what's append across the Ocean i'm really chocked.
I wonder if they speak as they write, should send anthropologist.

[Butch .H]

Hey David long time whats new? where is that boat of yours?You still building boats or just furniture?

[the1much]

thats funny comming from a country that would be eating rice and urchin eggs if it wasnt for "other countries" hahahaha ,, maybe you need to be shown the #'s on your exports,,, and be shown in the history books what it was like there BEFORE we were so generous to buy ya cheap crap,,,hahahaha,,, see ANOTHER dreamer,,, 1 that doesnt realize that without our money,, they'd still be in the rice patties.hahahahaha dumbasses

[genuinemarine]

heh,, i never open my mouth before i do "my homework",, maybe you oughta stop living a dream and figure out maybe YOU should do your homework,,, wanna know my knowledge,, look up hinckleys, morriss , apogee's, and EVERY boat builder in downeast maine,,,,,you couldnt even start in them places as a floor sweeper,,,and YOUR the 1 talkin like gates,,YOU was the 1 tyhat wanted to compare bank accounts, YOU are the 1 that came on here asking ?'s about something you now say you are 1 of the best at doing,,, YOU are the 1 getting personal,,,,,should we go further?,, your BEST bet is to jus ignore me,,, or ill bring out just how good your work ISNT.

Should I address you Mr No 1 instead of the1much? You like 1 better than me.

Seems we are not in the same page as what we are talking and compare is about builidng boats in China. Where is your homework about that?

Hinckley, Morris are good boats but I like Nordhavn, Selene better as they are very good ocean-going quality trawlres. They are being built in China. We work very closely with Selene!

My best best is that you know nothing about boatbuilding in China.

[the1much]

Should I address you Mr No 1 instead of the1much? You like 1 better than me.

Seems we are not in the same page as what we are talking and compare is about builidng boats in China. Where is your homework about that?

Hinckley, Morris are good boats but I like Nordhavn, Selene better as they are very good ocean-going quality trawlres. They are being built in China. We work very closely with Selene!

My best best is that you know nothing about boatbuilding in China.

theres a reason for that isnt there??? my boats travel the world, and are KNOWN WORLD WIDE. how well is yours known?, and how many boats do you sell in a year?,, theres a REASON your #'s are so low, and mine are so high.
and like i said in the very beginning,, the OP asked did we know any good builders in china ,, they were answered,, and because you didnt like the answers, you decided to get personal,,,,, they got our opinion,, like was asked,,, so again,,, your homework needs to look at #'s ,, not your thoughts,, and why did we go to #'s ,,, because YOU got personal. SO,, let the #'s do the talking. and like i have ALWAYS said,,, you may be the best there is,,, but having a boat built in a country that dont give a crap or will do ANYTHING about you (per say) taking the $ and running ,, is 1 of the dumbest things someone could do.

[genuinemarine]

James baby we carry(going to be carried) a numder of your products bud.Your l.e.d lights have mountings of brass.I can return them to you with your DC pannels for a refund. Plenty of comments posted on this site and you are stupid enough to single out the only one on this thread that imports(going to be imported) your product what a dumb ass

Talking with you really makes me feeling younger and younger. Are you too old to remember what we are talking about here?

Return those, What a great man! I got a better idea for you to be a greater man: Check your house, the boat and return everything that are made in China. I suggest starting from your computer, laptop,mobile.......... in your house, from fiberglass, hardware........ in your boat. Do it if you are a true man and keep " Dumb Ass" for yourself as your style of talking fits it better.

[genuinemarine]

theres a reason for that isnt there??? my boats travel the world, and are KNOWN WORLD WIDE. how well is yours known?, and how many boats do you sell in a year?,, theres a REASON your #'s are so low, and mine are so high.
and like i said in the very beginning,, the OP asked did we know any good builders in china ,, they were answered,, and because you didnt like the answers, you decided to get personal,,,,, they got our opinion,, like was asked,,, so again,,, your homework needs to look at #'s ,, not your thoughts,, and why did we go to #'s ,,, because YOU got personal. SO,, let the #'s do the talking. and like i have ALWAYS said,,, you may be the best there is,,, but having a boat built in a country that dont give a crap or will do ANYTHING about you (per say) taking the $ and running ,, is 1 of the dumbest things someone could do.

Now we are talking! Firstly about the "Personal" issue, let me clear the air a little bit could you please go through all the previous comments and let us know who started the Personal issues like "Idiot", "Frog", "Bustard" and "ASS" ? Should these be something out of the mouths of some guys who are supposed to be from devevopped countries. I am living in a developping country but at least I know how to communicate like an educated man.

Secondly about the original topic, Not knowing a good yacht builder in China does not mean there is no good boatyard in China. Like anywhere in the world bad always co-exits with good. There are some boatyards in China which are building very very bad boats and to be honest with you I hate those people who are doing this. That is the major reason I left the boatbuilding business. However let us be objective and have a full picture of it. Here in China there are still people who are building boats such as Choeylee, Kingship, Nordhavn, Selene, Hampton, Marlow, Ocean Alexander, Horizon, Jefferson, Trader, Grand Alaska, Outer Reef, Symblol, Johnson......... Is the list long enough to prove that there are some good yards in China? I am not talking about the No 1 but good yards.

The yacht building industry in China was started in early 1980 and China only has a yacht building history of less than 30 years. How long is the American yacht building history? Does it make sense for us to compare our yacht building level with those countries in Africa? There is a long way for those Chinese yacht builders to go and there are too much for them to learn. A couple of years ago I invited the presidents of ABYC, Yachtworld, Boats.com to make some speeches in China International Boat Show to educate those local yacht builders. Of course we know we are not ready but we are learning and catching up.

Finding a good yacht builder here is not easy because right now those good ones are pretty busy with their orders. There are also some yards who are crazy enough to proclaim that they can build yachts even they are building ferries, patrol boats. Be very careful with those.

I personally think if you really work out something successful here in China you need pay attention to the following issues:

1. Find a good partner here in China who is well funded, honest, eager to learn and determined to build quality boats with an international ideas.

2. Find somebody such as a lawyer who really knows the local law, prepare a good and practical agreement and boat building contract to protect your interest.... As detailed as it can be and make sure all your concerns are protected there.

3. Make sure the design of your project is completed and proven. The specs of your design is detailed and prepare all the drawings as detailed as you can, all the components should be specified with the brand, model no........

4. Find a good supervisor to oversee the production process.

5. Check in every phase of the contruction and make sure everything sticks to the specs.

5. Work out a good business plan so that you could sell more boats.

These are my personal ideas and I know it is not easy to achieve those but somebody did make it. That is why I admire those Nordhavn people and they did a very good job.

[Butch .H]

I better return every thing made in your country it has a habit of killing people expesualy your foodstuff. You and your kind always have a angle and realise this you maybe conning Mugabe and sending your inferior products to Zim. It wont happen her you inadiquate little man. By the way idiot my boats are made of wood shove your glass fibre where your head should be.You can only steal idea invent somthing of real importants. You assemble componants only you do not manufacture any componants. My house was built in 1920's using good African material. You think we cannot source componants from anywhere but your melomine enfused country. Why dont you poast somthing worth while or has the contaminated food gon to your brain.

[genuinemarine]

I better return every thing made in your country it has a habit of killing people expesualy your foodstuff. You and your kind always have a angle and realise this you maybe conning Mugabe and sending your inferior products to Zim. It wont happen her you inadiquate little man. By the way idiot my boats are made of wood shove your glass fibre where your head should be.You can only steal idea invent somthing of real importants. You assemble componants only you do not manufacture any componants. My house was built in 1920's using good African material. You think we cannot source componants from anywhere but your melomine enfused country. Why dont you poast somthing worth while or has the contaminated food gon to your brain.

Oh, my old incompetent Butch really got personal ! Talking with you now really makes me feel over-developped and educated. David made the point.

I know our government is not doing a good job in controlling the quality of the food and that is very bad. But wait a minute that is not my work and that is not we are discussing here in the boatdesign.net

Why don't you pump out something about the real topic which I reminded a couple of times and take back all your nonsense to your mouth.

By the way before you do that brush up a little bit your English.

[Butch .H]

This message is hidden because genuinemarine is on your ignore list:D :D :D :P :P :P :P :P The melamine scandal is the bench mark for doing business with you and yours. So what if you kill a few babies .Always an angle nothing straight.

[jonesg]

This message is hidden because genuinemarine is on your ignore list:D :D :D :P :P :P :P :P The melamine scandal is the bench mark for doing business with you and yours. So what if you kill a few babies .Always an angle nothing straight.

America has its own history of scandals,none are pure.
China is a bit of a wild west economy right now, its exploding exponentially.

I did a bit of mold making a few yrs ago, aviation related, molds went to china and europe, the chinese talent with glasswork was very impressive.
There is a culture of corruption but if you find the good guys you can't help but be impressed.

[Butch .H]

I agree with that point.Weirdly enough we have a substantial Chinese relations Mainly in South Africa of all places but some in Taiwan as well (My grandmothers sister married into the Lee Family). They however have a sence of humor unlike our genuinemarine freind and old man Jessop.Have you read the whole thread.It started off mildly nough and degenerated fast.James nees to take a pill and David must post picturs of his boat.

[jonesg]

heheh, we all like to wear our ignorance like a badge of honor sometimes, non are perfect.

I married a Chan, her dad worked for the US marines intelligence during WW2 in the south sea Islands, a spy and terrorist on the Japonese.
He still gets free US military health care at any military base, I guess they liked him.

Gotta go, she says the rice is ready, fer cryin out loud rice again!

[genuinemarine]

I agree with that point.Weirdly enough we have a substantial Chinese relations Mainly in South Africa of all places but some in Taiwan as well (My grandmothers sister married into the Lee Family). They however have a sence of humor unlike our genuinemarine freind and old man Jessop.Have you read the whole thread.It started off mildly nough and degenerated fast.James nees to take a pill and David must post picturs of his boat.

Bingo, everybody really has to read the whole thread to figure out who really need a pill even a surgery. Butch really has kind of "humor" nobody can match, not a Chinese like me not an European like David!

[Butch .H]

Bingo, everybody really has to read the whole thread to figure out who really need a pill even a surgery. Butch really has kind of "humor" nobody can match, not a Chinese like me not an European like David!
I told you David was not Chinese I bet he is Belgian or from that region.

[Butch .H]

Oh by the way David and James a person can learn loads from people like the 1much. Just read the thread properly.

[jusembo]

I realize how deeply i marked your lives
You can't spend a week without remember my name

You're right Belgium is not in China ... good point.

[the1much]

I realize how deeply i marked your lives
You can't spend a week without remember my name

You're right Belgium is not in China ... good point.

dont flatter yourself, i dont even look at ya name, and if i did remember it,, it would be because ya make me laugh so hard ;)

[Butch .H]

Good Point dont claim to be a Chinese Boat Builder. Do you have similar plans in China as you had in the Congo (me thinks the Chinese will kick your ass befor it gets to that).Come on show us that bundle of wood you call a boat.