Best Free or Low Cost Marine Design Software? (2008-2010)

[Admin]

Continued from http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15679

Which is the best Free or low cost marine design software package for hull design?

Bearboat (http://boatdesign.net/cgi-bin/bdn/jump.pl?ID=77)

BioDesign (URL now not reachable)

Boat Express (http://boatdesign.net/cgi-bin/bdn/jump.pl?ID=6456)

Carene (http://boatdesign.net/cgi-bin/bdn/jump.pl?ID=18)

Carlson Design Hull Designer (http://boatdesign.net/cgi-bin/bdn/jump.pl?ID=28)

DelftShip Free (http://boatdesign.net/cgi-bin/bdn/jump.pl?ID=7450)

Free!Ship (http://boatdesign.net/cgi-bin/bdn/jump.pl?ID=5505)

HullCAO (http://boatdesign.net/cgi-bin/bdn/jump.pl?ID=2933)

HullForm (http://boatdesign.net/cgi-bin/bdn/jump.pl?ID=156)

PolyCAD (http://boatdesign.net/cgi-bin/bdn/jump.pl?ID=3080)

jSDN (http://boatdesign.net/cgi-bin/bdn/jump.pl?ID=7558)

[Leo Lazauskas]

Same as the other category. I use Michlet, Flotilla and an extended version of the Gnu Scientific Library.

[lazeyjack]

Same as the other category. I use Michlet, Flotilla and an extended version of the Gnu Scientific Library.

I sure as hell would not recommend Rhino to any beginner(me) what the heck is this C plane bizz and how do you set it, the bloody line snaps all over the place and I mean i have been trying for months YUK!!

[BarendGrobler]

lazeyjack, just press F7 and the C plane will dissapear.
if things are snaping everywhere, click "disable" (very bottom)

[marshmat]

Freeship is still king.... currently trying to keep up with the rapidly evolving Free!ship Plus which is now at version 2.9something.

[lazeyjack]

thanks Marsh, but then you cant free draw, between points, and then how do you turn grid back on

[masalai]

I have been using DelftShip, FreeShip and now FreeShip-Plus via "wine" on Linux all present with issues for drawing a cat...
I have a 2D cad running on Linux as well as Blender 3D, which is Bloody brilliant if I could figure out how to use it or print out the web based manual... - it works on Windows - free to download & use - It is apparently designed to create "movies" from cartoons inserting actual footage and drawn objects. Those into rendering - have a look, learn it and teach me please???

[DickT]

I've fooled with bearboat a little, but haven't been able to figure out how to change midship beam and draft.

[BOATMIK]

How is "low cost" defined?

I understand "free" completely.

Best wishes
Michael

[masalai]

BoatmiK, for me "low cost" is when you feel embarrassed to pay, or "I thought this stuff was FREE what am I paying for???"

[cekuhnen]

masalai

I am some month later responding but I am a designer using Blender for organic modeling and also rendering of course. I feed Rhino the obj files through utilizing t_splines for converting polygon meshes into perfectly fitting NURBS patches.

if you have questions about Blender feel free to contact me

info@ckbrd.de

or simply go to the blender user forum
http://blenderartists.org/forum/

[Javaid Hosany]

Leo

I am an electric and electronic engineering student. And I am actually learning Michlet to predict the thrust needed for a solar boat that I am doing the electrical installation.

Can somebody help me please in understanding and calculating the ship loading type.

Thank you lots.

Regards

[Manie B]

Blender

hi guys i see that some of you are using it
i am still learning

i get a message "no installed python found" some scripts may not run

any ideas?

i cant open any help menus

www.blender.org doesnt work????

[masalai]

Yes You gotta install the Python script/language as well...

[Manie B]

Mas if you are online can you please see if you can get to
www.blender.org

no luck this side

[Manie B]

i have tried everything on

http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=125391

still no can do

any suggestions?

i have 3 python files in my program files but they wont extract

Winace Achiever freezes on Extracting from zip file???

[Manie B]

i got onto blender.org finally thnks

[Manie B]

got it all

Blender is Excellent

if anybody needs help with python installation i have done it - can do:D :D :D

[Manie B]

Mas how have you gotten along with blender
are you using it yet?

[masalai]

YES local time 07:15 am 25 may 08 no problems.... remember your link shortest route may be up to Europe abd then across the Atlantic cable and if either are busy, expect delays....:D OK Manie, you will find it has more power than a malley bull in a china shop.... and they come at more than 2 tons....

When you consider what it has been used for, we are just playing at the edges....

[masalai]

Still struggling with the blender interface - maybe I am tooo much of a retard???? :D - - I may have a brain fart soon and suddenly everything will click -

[shellexpansion]

If you just use the software for a simple design. Don't forget Ablire Xpress. It is a freeware.

[Nikimathew]

Marine Simulation has released Volume Two of the ROVsim Undersea Pilot series The Undersea Pilot series is a collection of remotely operated (submerged) vehicle (ROV) simulators intended for ROV and marine professionals and based on Marine Simulation's ROVsim simulator. By implementing the very latest technologies for real-time 3D visualisation, it is able to simulate a wide range of mission variables: from changing currents and visibility, to electronics and gear failures.
----------------
Nikimathew
CONNECTOR (http://www.drivenwide.com)

[Design_1]

I use Rhino v4. I have been using Rhino for since v2 and love what I can do with it. It cost $875 US and is worth every penny to me. Have done steel hulls up to 257' with scantlings. works well to flaten developable surfaces for nesting with Rhino Nest.

[Sean Herron]

Hello...

The best software out there is what you can afford and bend your mind around without chucking the computer out of the window in a drunken rage or banging into your new hardwood floor whilst screaming like a Meth addict at it (that rhymes) and asking the machine - which cannot talk back - like kicking a dumbed puppy - 'WHO IS IN CHARGE HERE - WHO - YOU OR ME' - yup - however - same must also output information that REAL boatbuilders can use on a lofting floor or other - (I remember Prolines) - or other for the backyard crowd - who in many cases are beyond the kiddies hired to loft...:)

In short - whatever hammer that fits the job at hand - I love Carlsons' freeware - and still use it - import into Rhino - make surfaces and take off curves to reduce the amount of control points - but I use it to get there...

Rhino Marine per Proteus Engineering is fantastic - albeit their powerboat hull wizard creates a surface that is very 'edit' limited - above works again - suck out the curves and go on your own...

In short - it is all good - there is no one package deal and I believe that there will never be - just fill your toolbox...:)

As for Blender - just cruise YouTube - there are highschool M/F's posting tutorials...:)

Also see http://www.cogfilms.com/tutorials.html ...

You may think this guy had a hand in Penguin for Rhino - you just may - maybe ...

Cheers...

SH.

[Fanie]

The best hull design software sits right between your ears. Unfortunately we all have become a bit lazy and I have to admit computer software does make very accurate measurements, but aren't we relying on it too much ?

Maybe a combination of the two resources is what makes the real difference between good and gooder :D

[Sean Herron]

Hello...

About the only time I pick up a pencil is to mark up some gibberish on the shop floor that was spit out of a computer...

Or - if I can get the file - I take it home and clean it up and replot it into something that 'the boys' can actually use on the floor - one hint - STOP PLOTTING DIMENSION IN YELLOW INK DUMBASS...:)

LazeyJack - you can set the Constuction Plane to any flat surface - as in you have a forward raking house and you want a true 2 inch radius on the window - a 2D projection of a curve to that surface will give you a distorted radius when you develop the surface - start by right clicking on the upper left view tab - lots of options there...

Trust me - I am learning on my own too - Rhino is damned tricky - for ADS folks - all men - who hate reading manuals - it is a steep learning curve for sure...

NAFI is NO AMBITION AND F'CK ALL INTEREST - tough club to join...:)

SH.

[Design_1]

I have been using Rhino for 4 yrs. now and love it. I have drawn everything from 14' perogues to 257' OSVs and scantlings with it. It does very well with unrolling developable surfaces. I mainly appreciate the fact that I can draw through 4 view ports with multiple construction planes with minimal effort. I also love the fact that I have several option for drawing any given surface. I attached a 24' hull with complex surfaces that I drew in Rhino.

[Chris Ostlind]

For what it's worth, I concur with Herron's use of Hulls as his sketch pad for doodling ideas and then porting them to a higher plane of software. Personally, I also use Freeship as an intermediary stop after "sketching" in Hulls, where I get really good hydrostatics that match-up well with those produced when I take it to Rhino and Rhinomarine.

Fiddly? Well, maybe, but it's just like my old days in the design classes at college when I would move from one media type to another, always looking to discover a new potential in the concept I was working with at the time.

It's called a body of work discovered by only one ethic... that being, time in the shop/on the drawing board/in the process media work-arounds until you arrive at several iterations that have great merit.

There are no shortcuts, unless you are one of those dudes who can draw an atom bomb on a napkin... AND it will work the first time out. The rest of us come to this thing after many hours of diddling around, walking away and having a beer, chasing some tail, eating out with the kids and finally.... distilling the mental and visual stew into a final form.

Do have fun, whatever you choose to do along these lines.

[PI Design]

Please help...

In Freeship I sometimes feel that I can't control the lines of my designs as much as I would like. For example, I would like to be able to directly draw waterlines etc, using a function similar to the very basic curvy line feature on Microsoft Word. I would then like to be able to edit that line to ensure that it is fair. In Freeship, you use the control net to create the design, but because the points on the net do not lie exactly on the hull surface, I feel that some control is lost. For example, trying to get the hull to exactly touch a measurement point is very tricky, if not impossible (e.g hull beam 2.5m aft of bow, 200mm above base should be 1.22m). Also, I would love to be able to specify buttock angles, line lengths and chine radii directly, or at the very least measure them. For example, in Freeship, the only way to set the aft centreline buttock angle is by doing some sums and even then because of the reasons above it only ends up approximate - it would be much easier to be able to input such values directly.

I hope this makes sense because I would really like to know whether a (cheap) package with such features exists. Perhaps even Freeship can do these things and I'm not using it properly? I guess maybe I could do this kind of thing in Rhino, but then you don't get the waterlines, sections and hydrostaic calcs (presumably Rhino Marine does this, but I'm only doodly dinghies at home, so don't want to pay big bucks).

Thanks.

[Fanie]

PI,

It is unfortunately a bit of a pain. You can zoom in to get it more accurate, but you can also type the distances in the measurement window to get it spot on. I use delftship, don't know if it is any different.

You can drag the profile ie the transom to the approx you expect, then trim it out exactly.

To get the shape right, you have to work on all three profiles.

Hopes this helps a bit.

[PI Design]

PI,

It is unfortunately a bit of a pain. You can zoom in to get it more accurate, but you can also type the distances in the measurement window to get it spot on.

Thanks Fanie,
Unfortunately it is only the control point you can type the location of, not a point on the hull surface.

[marshmat]

Hey PI,

I know what you mean about Freeship / Freeship+. I think to a large degree it is inherently part of the nature of a subdivision-surface modeller. Simply put, there is no exact hull surface in Freeship, at least not in the same sense as a NURBS surface where any point can be evaluated to arbitrary precision. The actual surface you see in Freeship, and that is used for calculations, is the result of a series of successive approximations. It averages to the actual surface, but it is not the actual surface.

Now, for all practical purposes, I find that careful use of intersection lines and markers in Freeship allows one to (with some patience) match the surface to the markers to well under construction tolerances.

I find lines fairing in Freeship to be a bit more of a hassle, though. Fairing by control curves is relatively easy. But the finite precision of the subdivision surface frequently makes curvature plots of diagonals, buttocks or waterlines oscillate like crazy, even when the curve is actually fair. It's much more of a problem on very gently curving shapes, like diagonals, than on high-curvature shapes like stations. But a nuisance nonetheless, as fairing by control curves alone always makes it feel like something was missed.

[thudpucker]

Help me, I'm baffled by the boat design software. I'm just a hobbyist, a tinker, and without a tutorial or a friend to help me understand these Cad Programs I'm lost in a desert.

Which of the Freeware Boat design software's come's with a Tutorial?
Or some other kind of help?

[sabahcat]

Help me, I'm baffled by the boat design software. I'm just a hobbyist, a tinker, and without a tutorial or a friend to help me understand these Cad Programs I'm lost in a desert.

Which of the Freeware Boat design software's come's with a Tutorial?
Or some other kind of help?

Yep, I only want something simple as well and really, I have the hulls and am just after something for doing an interior layout with measurements.

Getting sick of using paper and scale rulers doing the same or similar pic over and over again

MS paint with measurements would almost do me, almost

[thudpucker]

sabahcat There's some good news on the horizon.
I have recieved a download of a Tutorial that will work with Freeship.

I'll send the sender a note to contact you. I'm not sure he wants me to blast his information all over the board.

It aint easy! But with some concentration, I'm learning the things that his program can do with Hull form (that's all so far) I think I'm just gonna need some patience to get to the rest of the Details.

[venomousbird]

For ease of use and dependability, especially for beginners, I would recommend google sketchup. I've put some high demands on my CPU with this program and had no problems with freezing. You can add accurate dimensions, and some higher-end programs are able to import the files you produce. It's not designed specifically for boats, but with the unconventional sorts of ideas I have, I actually find this to be useful. If I wanted a typical boat, I would just buy one.

[thudpucker]

I have Google sketchup. I cant figure out how to use it.
I wrote Google. They said there is no Tutorial, but there is a forum. The forum is for the Pro version. I didnt get any help there.

[sabahcat]

I've been trying to get my head around this freeby

Autodesk inventor LT

http://labs.autodesk.com/technologies/inventor_lt/

A long way from a result yet, cant even figure how to get it to play metric instead of that bloody outdated imperial system

[sabahcat]

Yep, just had a look at some of the tutorial videos in sketchup and it "appears" pretty easy

[mics_54]

I have Google sketchup. I cant figure out how to use it.
I wrote Google. They said there is no Tutorial, but there is a forum. The forum is for the Pro version. I didnt get any help there.

DaveR posts tutorials for sketchup at http://lumberjocks.com/jocks/DaveR/blog/series/1186
and

http://finewoodworking.taunton.com/blog/design-click-build
has an archive of sketchup tutorials and tips pertaining to building furniture etc

[thudpucker]

Wow! Thanks a bunch. I'll try to copy that to my Thumb drive. Maybe there's hope for the dope yet!
I get stumped and my mind just goes off to some other place. I dont realize how bad it is till I suddenly snap awake and suddenly ralize I've been asleep.

I've been looking locally for someone who could teach that course real time.

[robherc]

Now, for all practical purposes, I find that careful use of intersection lines and markers in Freeship allows one to (with some patience) match the surface to the markers to well under construction tolerances.

I find lines fairing in Freeship to be a bit more of a hassle, though. Fairing by control curves is relatively easy.

Hey, I'm fairly new to FreeShip, and have been getting fairly irate as (for my multihulls, at least) I'm having aheck of a time getting the hull on the screen to match the one in my head...lol I know where the points I want the hull to TOUCH are, but I REALLY don't want to have to do the math (triangulation) to put the midpoint of a line there, so that the hull will match tangentally there.
So far, I learned how to "crease" lines and "mirror" planes to get a sealed hull that the programmed formulas can spit out info on. My biggest issue is that I always end up with the right co-ordinates for the centerline, but not ANYWHERE else...the entire rest of the hull becomes much finer than I wanted.

Can you @ least point me in the right direction here please?

[JotM]

I've been trying to get my head around this freeby

Autodesk inventor LT

http://labs.autodesk.com/technologies/inventor_lt/


Man, this is frustrating!!!!

Autodesk Inventor LT Technology Preview 2009 is available as English language software and is available for download only in Australia, Canada, France, New Zealand, and the United States.

BTW as discussed here (http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=7885), Carene can be taken of the list. It is no longer available. (I have put out an independent request to Jeremy Lainé, the son of, but that has remained unanswered until now)

[mics_54]

freeship uses control curves too.

"Can you @ least point me in the right direction here please?"

Did you go through the tutorial available from delftship/freeship?

[ancient kayaker]

Rob: I feel your pain! Naturally you will have studied the tutorial, but FreeShip requires you to develop a feel for the program, a Delft touch as it were. Once you have that it is very powerful and fast. I don’t consider myself an expert but the following approach gets me on the right track quickly:

First of all, forget all that stuff about getting the hull to touch points; you’re playing with flexy surfaces being touched at quite different places which you have to find. Starting off right with a new hull is key; right up front you have to guess the right number of points to specify longitudinal and vertical directions, no clues are given. Too few and you will never get the shape you want, but too many is like juggling too many balls at once.

Think of bending a fairing batten around the sheer plan and midship frame curves you want. Sometimes you can do this by pushing on the batten at only 3 places, that gives a pointy kayak/canoe shape. For a shape like a circular arc 4 are needed, and you’ll need more for full stems and a near-cylindrical mid-section. If you get N(vert) and N(long) right at the get-go you have a great advantage. Never put in more than you need, that way lies madness. See the big picture at this time, not niggly details like schooner bows and wineglass transoms.

Free/DelftShip’s first guess in the vertical direction is often wildly wrong, just use the scaling tool to get it roughly right, don’t obsess about precision yet.

Next step is to get the rough look of the hull by shoving the CPs around without worrying over-much about dimensions, especially the stem, and stern or transom. It is often necessary to move a bunch of CP’s in X; remember where you had to push on the batten. This is the time to fix the sheer, rocker, profile and stations. Trying to get beam and depth exactly right using the CPs is frustrating, so once the overall shape looks right just scale the sucker in XYZ.

Now for the niggly details: extra CPs are often needed on the centerline to get a station right, and refine the stem foot and transom. By this point you are well on your way. I try to remember to run checks on hydrostatics, resistance and developments before getting too far along.

Hope the above helps, and my apologies if I just tried to show Grandma how to suck eggs.

[robherc]

mics_54:
Actually no, I did not go through the tutorial..I find that on about 99.9% of programs, I do better with them if I do NOT go though the tutorials. I'll usually try to about 10 minutes, then give up & see if I can get the feel of the program without it...otherwise it gets pitched & I find another program. It's just something about the way I learn, reading FACs and "read-me"s usually gets my brain so muddled I can't even function anymore.

AK:
Thanks for the tips. I have been able to get the overall GENERAL hull shape that I'm wanting on several attempts, just that I can't get the BWL as wide as I want w/o increasing overall Beam. I found that changing all the way from "high" to "low" in the select box filled out the lower portions of the curves a little for me, but not as much as I'd like. I'll probably have another go at it with a few more vertical CPs, or maybe I'll force my wife to sit through the tutorial, then teach me how to use it. :P

EDIT: Oh yeah, it probably isn't helping matters much that I'm trying to build catamaran hulls on it either, is it?

[yipster]

i see nobody gave biodesign (http://www.geocities.com/dumchikov/bio_design/) a vote witch is a pitty
becouse its a pretty good program with ad-on's and easy to learn tutorials

[ancient kayaker]

mics_54:
... I found that changing all the way from "high" to "low" in the select box ...


Not sure what you meant by that but I assume you select several control points and move them out together by clicking the arrow. There are so many control points on that figure you posted I would find it difficult to get a fair hull the shape I wanted. Generally I do not have more than 4 control points in either direction, and I would suggest starting over with a new hull with less points, using FreeShip which will deliver the plank developments, before you invest too much time on DeftShip, which (free version) won't.

I have never tried a multihull but have heard reports it is not worth the hassle except for the pretty picture; stuff like hydrostatics may come out weird if the software gets confused.

[thudpucker]

i see nobody gave biodesign (http://www.geocities.com/dumchikov/bio_design/) a vote witch is a pitty
becouse its a pretty good program with ad-on's and easy to learn tutorials

I'd try it. I'm absolutly knot headed on these design programs. It's something I want to learn so badly but I just dont seem to grasp it.
Are you vouching for the tutorials as in "Biodesign for Dummys"?

I went to biodesign.com and got into some Biological science site?

[thudpucker]

I finally got the Bio Design. I still cant find the Tutorial for it.
Any suggestions?

[Knut Sand]

I finally got the Bio Design. I still cant find the Tutorial for it.
Any suggestions?

I can only find this video:
http://www.vimeo.com/5143080

[yipster]

the biodesign site has changed, but the instruction video works ok
have biodesign on my other computer becouse it dont run in vista

[susheng999]

I use maxsurf

[Jenny Giles]

I use Free!Ship and Michlet.

Has anybody here had problems with Free!ship exporting Michlet files?

It doesn't always work for me. Free!ship sometimes gives me a good Michlet file and sometimes it gives me rubbish if I use a different number of stations and waterplanes.

[thudpucker]

I gave up. I'm just not quick enough to learn that intricate stuff written in a strange vocabulary.
If I need a design, I'll post it and ask!

[sigfinity]

I have looked all through this board and read the postings. Lots of good comments. My experience is not much substitute for a good calculator or spreadsheet to get some basic constraints together, but designing a boat to me is new.

I have Alibre design for another project and was wondering why more commonplace cad applications got so little mention here.

Is it expense? parametric facilities? rendering? or xy table (output) file formats that makes these other packages more popular for designing a hull?

Sorry if this is a dumb question, just getting started and this is my first post thinking about a new cat project.

Thanks for comments in advance.

sig

[apex1]

I have Alibre design for another project and was wondering why more commonplace cad applications got so little mention here.
sig

Welcome here Sig.

It´s not price, it is the lack of ability. Common CAD programmes are unable to draw a precise hull. Thats it in short.

[thudpucker]

Odd that they are not precise enough for you experts!
They are too tough for people like me to grasp. I'd be happy with enough knowledge to draw out what I'm thinking so I can plan on the material.
I get started, and then lost!

So I do my scribbling on Napkins!

[apex1]

Odd that they are not precise enough for you experts!
They are too tough for people like me to grasp. I'd be happy with enough knowledge to draw out what I'm thinking so I can plan on the material.
I get started, and then lost!
So I do my scribbling on Napkins!

So do almost all of the pro´s! Do´nt laugh, thats a fact.
Have you tried my tutorial on Freeship?http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/design-software/step-step-design-your-boat-27900.html

[Tato4all]

can any one help me to find tutorial for Free!ship ?

[apex1]

can any one help me to find tutorial for Free!ship ?

Of course.....................

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/design-software/step-step-design-your-boat-27900.html

[thudpucker]

I'll look at it again in the near future. I got lost once. If I have trouble again I'll send you the information by PM.

[nukisen]

I do use freeship to make a hull that is function in hydrodynamic.
After that i do use Sketchup to make the construktion. This is for me very handleable.

[apex1]

I'll look at it again in the near future. I got lost once. If I have trouble again I'll send you the information by PM.

Welcome...................

[sigfinity]

Thanks Thudpucker, Steamer and the others. Good content on CAD systems, limits. I usually am working on very small parts and have first hand experience with the challenges of milling things into reality. I have a materials experiment running in my garage as part of the cat project and will do the mentioned freeship tutorial when I get a chance.

Again, I appreciated the comments.

[pamarine]

Not really in this same category, but I am using Solidworks for the entire process from design through construction. Even with version 2008 (which has much improved surface modeling tools over previous versions) It is still a bear to draw truly fair and hydrodynamically sound surfaces. (I use rhinomarine for my hydrostatics, just haven't had the time or desire to learn to use Rhino to do my hull design, although with each hull change I'm thinking about it more and more).

Parametric Solid-Modeling CAD programs like Alibre and Solidworks are designed around the needs of industrial component engineers and manufacturers, not really the Boat, Car, and Aircraft folks. Dassault has a CAD program that is designed for out purposes, Catia, but at a $10k (USD) premium above what Solidworks costs.

The best package I have seen so far is a Purpose-built Marine design software suite that integrates into a traditional CAD program. Multisurf is such a suite for SW, but again it comes down to cost. For the Low-Cost/Free Category (1K range or less) I would cast my vote for Rhino with Rhino Marine.

[brayanloius]

Hi, From point of view carene is best.

[nukisen]

Need a free cad?
I did download DOUBLE CAD XT Yesterday And it seems to work fine!
It can handle 2d,dwg,dxf and do have fine layer options.
So for us who uses programs at home, this is a nice option.

[thudpucker]

I couldnt get the Double cad to down load. I press the Submit and nothing ever happens.

[nukisen]

I did fill in this form first.
http://activate.imsisoft.com/doublecad.aspx?productpage=DoubleCAD-XT
Then i did have to turn off my avast antivirus. to get the exefile to work.
As i downloaded the exefile with my virus program first there was no virus detected. But the exe file was broken. So i downloaded again with no virusprogram. And it did work perfekt. Maybe you have to confirm an activex controll in top of your browser. Though I dont know wich OS you are running Thudpacker.
Good luck!

[thudpucker]

Thanks Nuk. I did fill all that in. Did you notice it forced you to fill in a business and your position. I used an old business name and position.
There may be some kind of Virus hooked up to it, so I'll just pass.
Dick

[nukisen]

:) I did use business:Home.
Worked fine.

[guzzis3]

If your looking for free 2D cad programs solidedge are offering their 2D component free. You do have to register with them to get it.

2D cad is limited for hull design but can be useful for other boat related tasks.

NX, catia's competition, has a ship design component, but as mentioned previously these are expensive programs.

[Mark@DSM]

Orca 3d comes as a decent hull modelling program.
there are some bugs that needs working on but overall im enjoying this low cost light weight package.

[Fanie]

solidedge are offering their 2D component free

You can get the 2D here. You will have to fill in the thingy to get to the download area.
http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_gb/products/velocity/solidedge/free2d/index.shtml

If you're using something like Freeship then it is all you need. You can model the hull in Freeship, then export to Solid Edge and cad it up to have the pieces made.

I have a 3D Solid Edge, but the 3D I use very seldom. 99.99% is 2D.

As I understand this 2D is as professional as any out there, so do not think because it is 'free' it is not good, it is professional, just not 3D.

Solid Edge works quite easy too.

[nukisen]

Thanks I will run away to get this one imediately.

[nukisen]

Worked very fine!
Thanks a lot for the suggestion!

[marshmat]

The 2D functionality in SolidEdge is more than adequate for most purposes.

My only beef with SolidEdge is one of their restrictions on the academic version- anything created or edited by a copy running under an academic/educational licence gets locked in such a way that the commercially licensed version can't read it anymore.

[Vulkyn]

I got confused with the similarities between DELFT ship and freeship. Are they the same or different versions?
They even have the same interface and icons ....

Apex said they are basically the same ..... are they both being updated or should i just stick with freeship ? (they cant read each other's files not sure if i exported properly though :S)

[Fanie]

Both are free - Download both and play with them.

I used to use Delftship before then switched to Freeship. Only reason is Freeship has a diffent resistance calculator available.

[marshmat]

I got confused with the similarities between DELFT ship and freeship. Are they the same or different versions?
They even have the same interface and icons ....

Apex said they are basically the same ..... are they both being updated or should i just stick with freeship ? (they cant read each other's files not sure if i exported properly though :S)
The original Free!ship forked. Martijn (the original developer) decided to go after the pro/commercial market and renamed that branch Delftship and added a bunch of modules for common tasks in commercial naval architecture. It has a free version that is pretty much the same as older Free!ship versions, and a pro version that can use the powerful NA calculation modules. Free!ship Plus was then spun off by Victor, who has added some resistance prediction codes and other interesting tidbits; this fork is still FOSS and seems to be aimed more at hobbyists and backyard builders.

[Vulkyn]

cheers ill stick to freeship then !

[Fanie]

seems to be aimed more at hobbyists and backyard builders.
Eh Matt, whatch it with the 'backyard' there eh :D

I'm so glad my build will be in the front... ;)

[Fanie]

Eh Vulkyn,

I read somewhere you guys is Egypt only sail downwind... Is this true :D

[Vulkyn]

Depends on the wind :P

[Raggi_Thor]

I think they sail downwind upstream (south) and then drift downstram (north) :)

[Raggi_Thor]

Fanie, do they ave the same user interface and modelling capabilities, Freeship and Delftship?

btw, I think 178Euros is "low cost" of you need some of the features in Delftship Pro.
I even think Rhino at 900(?)Euros is low cost compared to AutoCAD for example.

I think any tool is low cost if it pays back on one project, so you can buy it when you need it.

[Vulkyn]

I think they sail downwind upstream (south) and then drift downstram (north) :)

What exactly do you mean ?? ;) ;)
River, Red Sea or Mediterranean or something completely different ??

[Fanie]

What exactly do you mean ??
He's just pulling your leg, that means joking with you. In ancient times no one could sail upwind, so you'd sail upstream and drift back downstream :D

[marshmat]

do they have the same user interface and modelling capabilities, Freeship and Delftship?
Yes, the modelling code and the GUI are essentially the same for Delftship and Freeship Plus. There is no guarantee of file compatibility between the native file formats of the two programs, though.

[Fanie]

There is no guarantee of file compatibility between the native file formats of the two programs, though.
You can take the guarantee out :D The files are not interchangeable. On my PC anyway, I had to redraw my boat's hull from scratch.

[Raggi_Thor]

What exactly do you mean ?? ;) ;)
River, Red Sea or Mediterranean or something completely different ??

I was joking, but I meant the river Nile.

[Raggi_Thor]

Thanks Matt and Fanie.
I suppose you have some import/export also?

Today I revisited the Polycad web pages.
It looks quite impressive, but when I tried it some years ago I found it not so user friendly. Maybe I'm getting old, I grew up with AutoCAD (from 1986) and I like the way Rhino work as the "3D Surface AutoCAD" we all wished for.

[Fanie]

but I meant the river Nile.
Denial is not a river in Egypt :D

[Raggi_Thor]

While we're at it, a felluca drifting on the Nile?
http://images.travelpod.com/users/chadsteph/1.1258272045.typical-felucca-on-nile.jpg

[Vulkyn]

Hehe nice pic ! the design for Fulleca's have not changed in almost 100 years!! i got some pics taken from 1905 and they are almost identical !!

Beautiful boats :P

P.S sorry i do not mean to derail the thread !!

[daiquiri]

Martijn (the original developer) decided to go after the pro/commercial market and renamed that branch Delftship and added a bunch of modules for common tasks in commercial naval architecture. It has a free version that is pretty much the same as older Free!ship versions, and a pro version that can use the powerful NA calculation modules.

Marsh, can you please tell me (very briefly) what NA modules are available in Delftship?
Also, what resistance prediction methods are curently available in Delftship?

[marshmat]

Daiquiri: See http://delftship.net/delftship/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=12&Itemid=20
The add-on modules are mostly for stability methods (probabilistic damaged stability, load cases, crosscurves, inclined hydrostatics, dredgers, etc.) but there are also a few for oil spill risk and some structural calcs.

[daiquiri]

Thanks Marsh, but I couldn't find any info about power/resistance prediction methods available. If you or someone else here uses DS, could you please give me some info? Thanks.

[yipster]

delft and john winters kaper (altho only to a certain size and link to michlett is integrated
new for "only" 150.- is wave hydrostatics but havent try'd that one yet
http://delftship.net/delftship/images/stories/delftship/dspro/ship%20in%20waves.gif
http://delftship.net/delftship/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=68:delftship-version-427-released&catid=4:newsflash&Itemid=8

[Raggi_Thor]

Very cool graphics, but is it realistic?

[daiquiri]

I think it's a pitty that such a nice software has only two resistance predictions available - and none for planing hulls, for example. I wrote that to Martijn a year or more ago, and have hoped to hear that something has changed in the meanwhile... :(

[spidennis]

are there any freeware/shareware programs for the mac?

[NoEyeDeer]

By the way, for anyone who is interested I came up with a trick to get smooth lines plans out of Delftship. I imagine it would be as good with any other software that produces lines plans.

As an old(ish) fart who grew up with manual drafting I've always found the jaggy lines outputted from CAD apps rather annoying.

The trick is to export that lines plan at a ridiculous size (20,000px wide works well) and then use a graphics app like Photoshop or GIMP to shrink the image down to a handy width (like 1280 or whatever). The shrinking process smooths out the jags so that the result is very nearly as smooth as traditional manual drafting. Save as a jpg and it's all sorted.

I don't know if this trick is original but it works and it works well. :)

[marshmat]

Good and useful trick, NoEyeDeer; I do the same thing on occasion. One change I'd suggest: Drawings of any kind shouldn't be saved as JPEGs. The JPEG algorithm is designed for continuous tone photographs and renderings, and tends to create ugly image artifacts near lines and in regions of solid colour. On drawings with lines and regions of solid colour, PNG images compress better and with much less damage to the picture.

[marshmat]

I think it's a pitty that such a nice software has only two resistance predictions available - and none for planing hulls, for example. I wrote that to Martijn a year or more ago, and have hoped to hear that something has changed in the meanwhile... :(
Perhaps it'll come... my impression of Martijn's modus operandi is that he won't include anything in his commercial code until he's thoroughly validated it for a broad range of possible cases. Now that Delftship's aimed pretty up-market, the consequences of a hard-to-catch bug could be ugly, so I wouldn't be surprised if he's treading carefully rather than cramming in every resistance method he can find.

[Admin]

Continued in 2011 at http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/design-software/best-free-low-cost-marine-design-software-2011-a-36190.html