golden V'S club shamrock

[wildwords]

This might not be the best place to ask about this but Im looking for any information about the above two boat designs by Ron Holland.
they where reportedly constructed in Ireland in Co. Cork.

Im interested in what the difference is between the two designs and also what is a silver shamrock?

were they built in different lengths i.e. 28ft / 30ft / 32 ft and during what years were they built and where?

if anyone has any information or knows of someone/ someplace I could question regarding the above?

Thanks

[Paul B]

This might not be the best place to ask about this but Im looking for any information about the above two boat designs by Ron Holland.
they where reportedly constructed in Ireland in Co. Cork.

Im interested in what the difference is between the two designs and also what is a silver shamrock?

were they built in different lengths i.e. 28ft / 30ft / 32 ft and during what years were they built and where?

if anyone has any information or knows of someone/ someplace I could question regarding the above?

Thanks

The Silver Shamrock was the prototype that won the Half Ton Cup in 1976.

This design was produced in a few different yards, with different deck/interior layouts. I believe they were all the same 30 foot hull.

You can possibly contact the Holland office for more info.

http://www.ronhollanddesign.com/fullsizeImages/RHDCollections-classiccollections-ClbShmrk.jpg

[Conundrum]

The original Golden Shamrock was called Golden Shamrock. I think that she was cold molded.

The Golden Shamrock class were built from a mould taken from Golden Shamrock and completed by the South Coast Boatyard (I think that's the correct name) in Cork or Crosshaven.

Silver Shamrock (and, I think, Southern Shamrock) were taken from the same mould but fiitted out to a much lighter specification inside - the weight ended up in the keel. These two 'specials' may have stepped a taller mast too. Both went to the Half Ton Cup in Trieste in 1976 with Harry Cudmore winning in Silver Shamrock.

There were several Golden Shamrocks at the event too. One finished second in the 'production boat' category.

The Club Shamrock had an identical hull, but a different deck layout with an inflated coachroof. She also had wheel steering to make more space in the cockpit for 'cruiser racing'. I think that by the time she came out Shamrocks were a bit small for half tonners as the rating had moved from 21.7 to 22.0, so the emphasis had moved from pure performance.

All of these Golden Shamrock derivatives were wonderful to sail upwind, but pigs in a blow downwind.

I'm not sure what Silver Shamrock 2 was, but Silver Shamrock III was a centreboard half tonner built for Harry Cudmore to defend the cup in New Zealand. I think that he would have won but for being dismasted in the last race. The boat had a wonderful paint scheme and was also known as the Silver Mackerel. I would love to know where she is now.

I have heard, but I am not sure that I believe, that Silver Jubilee, the prototype Nicholson 30 (the second or third Nicholson 30 - I think that there was a long-keel Nich 30 and also a half tonner of about 1972-3), was a fixed keel version. Silver Jubilee looks rather more conservative.

[Crag Cay]

http://www.killianbushe.com/history.htm

[Paul B]

Wow, this is a very old thread revisited.

It appears Ron Holland has removed the page that was linked to in my earlier post.

Here is a photo of SSIII at the HT Cup in 1977. Photo from Bob Fisher's book Great Yacht Races.

[Conundrum]

That's a relief! - I read a couple of other threads last night looking for information on Silver Shamrock III and became a bit worried that I would receive a host of notes telling me that I should not be commenting at all because I was not an expert. What I noted above was based on memory - I hope that's good enough...

Considering the original question: Golden v Club Shamrock, I have a recollection that the keel shape on the Club may have been slightly different (I'm thinking shallower, but can't be sure).

Looking at the photo of Silver Shamrock III, she is clearly different around the stern/transom from Silver Jubilee. (But what happened to her and what was Silver Shamrock II - or, as I have also been told, did they go straight to III, because in Irish it sounded like Silver Shamrock Tree?)

I would also be interested to hear whether anyone has converted a Golden Shamrock to fractional rig.

[Patience]

Does anyone have any more information on the boats - I have just been offered what I'm told is a 28ft 1991 Ron Holland designed Shamrock - anyone familiar with this model?

[Conundrum]

I think that you need a few more details.....
....the Golden Shamrock and the Club Shamrock were essentially from the same set of lines. They were originally referred to as 30ft. I do not have a set of the lines, but would estimate waterline lenght to be about 28ft.
1991 is quite late for a Golden Shamrock, I was under the impression that they ceased production in the mid '80s.
Where is she? Do you have any pics?

[Patience]

She's currently in Turkey - was last registered in the IoM - registration document says 8.5m x 3.2m - I'm not convinced it is what it claims to be - I'll try and get some pictures.

[dino75]

This may be of interest... http://yachts.apolloduck.ie/display.phtml?aid=170526
It's Harold Cudmores centreboarder from 1978.

Also, there was a wooden Shamrock for sale in Cork many years ago. I think it was the original Golden Shamrock and I think the advertisement said it was teak.

[Conundrum]

Presumably the 78 boat is Silver Shamrock IV. She looks like a good project for someone.

[rob r]

I can fill in a bit of the story re silver shamrock 3

Harold Cudmore sold the boat in Austria after the Sydney world championships and doing half a Sydney Hobart. (Good judgment him them pull out at Eden, just before the Bass Straight crossing)

The boat then moved to Queensland where it got a new paint job and new mast.

About 15 years latter it came into the hands of my father and I. by which time the centre board case was falling out. It turns out that bolting lead billets to an aluminium centreboard case with brass fixings and them submerging the whole lot in salt water is not a great approach to corrosion control. While we owned the boat the un-ballasted centre board was changed for an elliptical keel and the mast was modified to be keel stepped.

We owned the boat for 3 or 4 years and then sold it on.

It was a true thourabred. But as with all thourabreds it had some bad habits, such as sinking/flooding the whole cockpit when hard running

I lost track of the boat after it was sold in the early 1990’s, I have heard stories that it hit a reef and was written of a few years ago but have never had this confirmed. If this did happen it would be a great shame as it was a great old boat.

[Conundrum]

Thanks for the information. I hope she is still OK.

I understand that Shamrock IV is still in existence and undergoing a thorough overhaul in Ireland.

[Patience]

Hope no one minds me waking up this thread again but at last I have been able to get some pictures of the boat - although on hard standing only I'm afraid, but that may help - she is called Nos Na Goaithe note the 3 keels, the outer two are either of steel or cast iron, the centre seems to be of lead with fibre glass mouldings on both sides.

Any one no anything of her?

Thanks

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5079/5881395399_fea03d2119.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5072/5881954556_8a6337f1d1.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6047/5881951138_092a4d2201.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5067/5881949952_c7f47323ed.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5240/5881948676_db9069a005.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5191/5881947600_63d1154d9f.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5143/5881946458_19c4603e11.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5234/5881945274_a854e638b1.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5224/5881944220_4cf661b86b.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5038/5881942990_03235221ac.jpg

[Conundrum]

Not a Shamrock. Her bow is very typical of the Shamrock era IOR half-tonners, but that is where all similarity ends. The stern is not from a Shamrock, and the hull (particularly the waterplane) is not the same. Try looking at photos of the Arpege, a french class of about the same time - otherwise I have no idea what she is......

[CT 249]

As Conundrum says, the bow looks Shamrock-style, but not the stern. It's possible that someone took a Shamrock hull, cut the transom off and modified the stern to what seems to be a wider, fairer shape - such things were far from uncommon in earlier years. There were half tonners modified to be quarter tonners, three-quarter tonners modified into half tonners, etc.

[Conundrum]

Any photos of the stern?

[Patience]

I'll try and get some

[Patience]

Hope this is of some help ....
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5265/5889633021_e41dcd6f0b.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5160/5889632469_e8c7c54f4d.jpg

Note that outboard is back up only - it is fitted with a single pot Bukh on board

[Conundrum]

I would suggest that this is too full bodied aft (under the water) even to be a heavily modified Golden/Silver/Club Shamrock. No idea what it is, though. Sorry.

[Patience]

Well thanks for looking anyway - your advice is appreciated.

[CT 249]

I'm thinking perhaps Parker 27 - Ron Holland design, looks pretty close, and there was one called Nos Na Gaoithe

http://www.parkerseal.org.uk/bbs/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=865

But the standard Parkers were lift keelers - maybe this was modified by an owner?

[Patience]

That sounds promising - I will take a look over there - thanks very much.

[Patience]

Having had a quick look I can see from the year of the post that this must be a different Nos Na Gaoithe (this one was under different ownership at that time) - but I'll see if anything else comes of it -thanks again.

[Crag Cay]

There were a few fin keel Superseal 26 / Parker 27s built. But I've never seen a bilge keeler.

If it's a converted Superseal the entire space under the sole (floorboards) would be solid ballast. Is it?

[Patience]

No it's not.

[FOX1]

Hey. My ship was detached from the matrix obtained from the "Silver Shamrock", winner of the Half Ton Cup World Championship in Trieste, Italy early 1976.

I have some photos. Regards.

Pd. I have no precise knowledge of Golden Shamrock, but I'm sure the Silver Sharmrock, destroys it hehe

[Conundrum]

Hello Fox1. She looks very nice. Do you have any photos from astern? What sort of rig do you have? (Masthead, like Silver Shamrock; or fractional?). Where do you keep her? Are you still winning?

[FOX1]

Condrum later step you more pictures. The boat has a KEMP mast, imported from england in the 80s, tapered, fractional with long top mast, and 2 running backstays (as we say in English) . Incredible and very entertaining lol.

The ship is unbeatable in PHRF. But in the ORC rule, punish us very much and am considering some changes RCEHA. Any recommendation?

You've got a similar one? Greetings. Fox1.