Not all Milk and Honey

[lazeyjack]

Since coming here 7 years ago, we have seen our standard of living erode to a point whereby we hardly have one, I mean a good standard of living
This clip was taken from a report by a popular morning breakfast show
Much of the pain is caused by greed and little competition, In Uk and Eu there is such a high level of competition, that grocery prices are affordable, kept low
Here we have two big players who dominate and charge what they like
We are seriously considering a Move, what's it like for you in UK, Eu? Can USA, here gas is 5.98 an imperial gal(4.6 l. USA GAL 3.8L
For myself I have no house mortgage, but I struggle
this is the finding

David Koch
A staggering 98% of our Sunrise viewers are struggling to pay for basics like food, petrol and bills. The emails have been flooding in from all across the country with the same message; financial times are tough!

You may have seen our special edition of Sunrise this week on Australia's cash crisis. We wanted to make a stand against the Reserve Bank's fight against inflation, and highlight the pain many Australian's are suffering thanks to higher interest rates.

A staggering 98% of our Sunrise viewers are struggling to pay for basics like food, petrol and bills. The emails have been flooding in from all across the country with the same message; financial times are tough!

Thousands of Australians have shared their stories with us; some have given up their homes because they can't keep up the mortgage repayments, some are working three and four jobs just to make ends meet, some are preparing to walk away from their business, and others have had to give up their health insurance to pay the bills!

And it's little wonder; just look at the costs associated with buying a home, paying off a mortgage, taking out a rental property, buying your weekly groceries or filling up the car at the petrol bowser.

For example, in Brisbane the average house price is $425,000, an increase of 20% from the year before, and units cost an average of $322,000, up 11%. The average cost of unleaded fuel last month was $1.28 a litre, a jump of $0.12 from only six months ago.

In Sydney, the median house price is now hovering around $553,000, a rise of 5% over the past 12 months. Petrol prices have shot up by $0.15 a litre to $1.38 over the past six months, and the average cost of a basket of groceries now costs around $241, a rise of $4 since last year.

It's the same story in Melbourne where house values have soared by 25% over the past year, apartment prices are up by 6% and petrol is up by $0.15 per litre.

In Perth, it's a similar story with the average house price now around $509,000, a rise of 2% in the past year. Petrol has also risen by $0.13 per litre over the past six or so months.

Without going into every State and Territory, you get the picture; the cost of living is unmanageable for the majority of Australians.

So, what can you do about it?

While there's not a simple 'one-size fits all' solution to this cash crisis, there are some simple steps you can take now to save yourself some money.

1. Firstly set up a realistic budget, and stick to it;.
2. Buy less takeaway food and take your lunch to work;
3. Give up smoking;
4. Avoid using credit cards; and
5. Invest in your own skills so you can potentially earn more money.

[masalai]

Recognise ones fiscal limits and LIVE WITHIN THEM... Fcuk keeping up with the "Jones', be an indi(bloody)vidual and do your own thing.... You do not need a "prissey & manicured" front yard - plant some pumpkin seeds & other stuff that is almost self sustaining - for your own fresh vegies... :D:D:D - - - I do :P

[lazeyjack]

Recognise ones fiscal limits and LIVE WITHIN THEM... Fcuk keeping up with the "Jones', be an indi(bloody)vidual and do your own thing.... You do not need a "prissey & manicured" front yard - plant some pumpkin seeds & other stuff that is almost self sustaining - for your own fresh vegies... :D:D:D - - - I do :P

we grow pumkin, we cant grow others cos the bugs chew em, obviously you have not tried, I have not got my own car, I hate the bloody Jones mentality
come down here for coffee 7 roms crt
Eu has free uni, we dont, there is no public transport so kids have to have car, my kids are apprenticed, 5.60 hour, try live on that, NZ wage is over twice that
now be reasonable and say something constructive

[charmc]

LJ, I think Mas was throwing out stuff in general, describing what he does; not aimed at you.

You asked about the US. Regular grade petrol much like everyone else's; $.92 USD/liter=$3.40 US gallon. EU say it "costs more" there; actually it costs about the same, the govts just tax it much more, so the user price is more. Current prices are predicted to rise as the USD loses value vs others.

Housing may be a bargain in the next year or so. We're coming off a 2-5 year fastrack run up in RE prices, fueled in large part by phony cheap mortgages. Now the markets in many regions are collapsing; hard to sell because no one knows when prices will bottom out, so most buyers and lenders are reluctant to commit. I believe that particular aspect of the economic woes will stabilize in another year or two. There will be good buys for those who are ready.

No question we're in a recession, with inflation kicking in but no real economic growth (stagflation). The official statistics are bent, by official policy. Some years back the govt said that volatile energy and food price fluctuations were skewing the economic indicators; it was complicated to develop formulae to compensate for short term fluctuations ... so they "solved" the problem by redefining "cost of living" to not include food and energy. So we're facing huge price increases in food and fuel, but the govt says cost of living has gone up only a little. :mad: :mad:

[Knox]

gas 3.29 a gallon here

[lazeyjack]

Oh Charm my lad, mesalai just came for coffee, here chez moi, he knows I was not getting into him
We know all abt the sub prime stuff, when your markets go down , ours retreat into the depths
, like sheep in a paddock, they all run one way, and then the other
Frinstance, I have WBC, (westpac bank) I had 75k in .It went to 100, the back to 60, all cos of your subprime, for apparently no reason, WBC is not at all exposed I left it there, was not at all tempted to sell, but then again I am not one of the flock, just a black sheep Baaaaaaaa!!

[tinhorn]

When you're in trouble, all you can do is increase revenues or decrease expenses. Just like a business. And sometimes you need to relocate.

Real estate is dropping like a rock in many areas of the US, but is holding steady in others. (My burg is a newly-popular retirement and winery hot spot, which is great because I have a couple of small houses to sell. I want to relocate to the east coast, to a region where real estate is plummeting.) Financing may be a problem, however. Me, I like owner financing on fixer-uppers.

I eat pretty cheap - lotsa grocery chains, and WalMart is, of course, the great equalizer. Not that I cook much, but there are several fast food outlets with dollar menus. I'm sure we'll see $4 gasoline by July 4, but if I wasn't so lazy I could walk or bike to 90% of my destinations.

When the **** hit the fan in the early 80s, I was too young and dumb to be paying any attention, so I started a business and took out an 18% mortgage. I survived. From the sound of things, we're going to be experiencing upheaval again. I'll be playing it much closer to my vest this time.

Frankly, I have no clue how these youngsters just starting out are able to make ends meet. And I have no idea what you're facing in Australia. You do seem somewhat isolated, which MUST limit your options tremendously.

[masalai]

Twas tea LJ, and thoroughly enjoyed... Next is your turn to drop by... Thanks - fancy some slightly diluted (iced) Chivas Regal?

Locked firmly inside the US nappies of the "at risk" so if they sniffle - we get the flu & 5hit :D:D:D

[lazeyjack]

Well we eat no takeaways and we buy meat in bulk,
Home loans are now over 9%
But there are plenty of people doing very well here
i am an advocate of limits on car and boat hp, reduce fuel usage thereby demand, price stays reasonable
What to you think of 6000 shp private yachts for instance?
Nuke up for electricity generation, and cut out home heating oil, which drives price of light fuel diesel throu the roof

[charmc]

Nukes work. US Navy, France, and others have proven that safety and reliability can be commonplace through standardized design, controls, and training. Burning gas and oil to make electricity is dumb, given the alternatives.

I have no problem with limits on fuel consumption; let the mfrs work out how to meet standards, but it's a role for govt to set standards. Fuel consumption standards worked here, except for the stupidity of allowing large passenger vehicles to be rated as trucks, not subject to the rules. I noticed there's a lot of those big thirsty suckers starting to show up on used car lots at low prices lately. ;) Daimler Benz is working on a high tech small engine that will propel an S Class sedan to 100 km/hr in under 7 seconds, max WOT at 140 mph/210 kmph, and get 40 miles/US gallon (2.5 times better than current model).

[charmc]

Lazeyjack & masalai huddled over tea, murmuring together ... nothing good can come of that! :D :D

[masalai]

Au contrair - Ahhhh 5hit - can't spell or speak froggie - - in the opposite direction Charlie only good (hopefully for us) - If you believe either send me $5 quick...

[Frosty]

I found Australia expensive. The hotels and of course the cost of living which was about 6 dollar a bottle. I only eat houmos and cellery when im there because i can keep the cellery fresh in the toilet. Pitta bread I buy every day but I cant eat a whole cellery.

Pizzas --forget it, and a pork pie was about 4 dollar.
I never ever bough fush and chups ,I just coud'nt afford it.

I bought a lot of stuff from Bunnings that was cheap.

[masalai]

Saussage sizzles outside many Bunnings stores now - You will be OK if you bring the gold to trade... (Send money now and save yourselves - and pray for your soles)...




shoe type, but money first... :D:D:D:D:D:D

[Frosty]

I saw the sausage sizzler thing but I did'nt have any money left. Even though I had just stole about 40 feet of wire wrapped round my waist, and some stainless steel pipe clips under my hat.

[masalai]

So Frosty, apart from getting pissed, what do you propose as your survival option when the USA falls into deep fiscal/economic depression... What will happen to other countries in the region?...

[Frosty]

Duh --Dunno really get pissed again I suppose, will that help?

I tell you what ille do for them , so dont say I dont do anything for the septics . I will buy a bottle of that American piss crap stuff Buds wizer or something . Send a bit of money there way.

[masalai]

U bored & pissed off too? - time for me to cook dinner for mother...

[kach22i]

Corporate take over of the world.......not just Sci-Fi anymore.

[safewalrus]

Charlie Nukes may work but throwing them away afterwards ain't so easy! We've got a couple ('bout four) some few miles from here (across the river, say one and a half, including the walk down to the river!) They do also tend to be a little expensive, not the sort of thing your average yottie would be able to buy to many of!

[charmc]

Charlie Nukes may work but throwing them away afterwards ain't so easy!

Naaaa, it's simple. Make a tomb around it out of concrete. In 10,000 years or so it can be ground up and recycled. Make the shape into a pyramid, could be tourist attraction or New Age conference center. Built in booby trap for pyramid robbers, too. :D


OK, OK, not funny.

In a case of unintended consequences, the bans on additional nuke generation plants have been the main reason inhibiting research into safer disposal. It's hard to get a bright young person interested in research in a field which everyone says is only a necessary evil and won't be needed at all in a few years. Fortunately, some research has continued, and the field has expanded in recent years, as the nuke option has begun to be embraced even by some of the greenies, as an alternative to fossil fuel combustion. A workshop last November showed some interesting possibilities are being pursued: http://mit.edu/canes/symposia/gcep-mit/gcep-mit.html

[Frosty]

Charlie Nukes may work but throwing them away afterwards ain't so easy! We've got a couple !

OOO nor we got moor than thart ooo yers.

You must be joking, not only have we got the new stuff,( the ones that are smaller and can actually be used without blowing your own arse off)

The septics use us as a bomb chucker, always have, They are our mates ,kinda.

Then there is the stuff we dont know about, err you dont know about.

[Petros]

Nukes are too expensive, they have never been cost effective, there are much less expensive ways to generate power. Hydro-electric is best, no pollution and the rain has to flow from the mountains to the sea, it might as well power turbines generators on the way down. Government will not approve any new ones however (enviro-natzies stop them). Natural gas is the next best way to go, low maintained cost, low cost fuel and low pollution, plus we have over 700 years worth of known reserves (if the government will let us drill for it-enviro-natzies again).

We also have more oil in North America than the whole middle east. There are lots of know oil reserves in Canada, Alaska, off the Pacific and gulf coasts, Rocky Mountains and in Mexico, perhaps 200-300 years worth. If the Government would open more land to oil leases we will increase the supply and lower the cost. Than if the damn Congress would quit the credit habit and cut back on spending the US dollar might recover too, one can only hope.

[masalai]

Petros, I don't think the object of discussion was to make electricity but to blow things up :D:D:D:D:D:

[charmc]

Petros, I don't think the object of discussion was to make electricity but to blow things up :D:D:D:D:D:

Wrong, Mas, Frosty changed the subject when he misinterpreted one of Safie's concise and clearly written posts. :D :D :D :P :P

[Frosty]

Eh? What? who me? but!!! I thought !! errrrrr

Im going down pub ,---oh damn its too early.

Hang on a minute there Musky! a concise and clearly written post by Safie boy???

For a start Safie can not write a concise and clear post, and if he did how come it was'nt clear and concise to me then?

(Thumbs behind lapels) ,--I rest my case.

[charmc]

Nukes are too expensive, they have never been cost effective, there are much less expensive ways to generate power.

Petro,

Your friends the enviro-nazis have been responsible for much of the costs of nuke power. TheThree Mile Island incident, where a horrible chain of errors headed for disaster was stopped by redundant safety features, proved that a truly "idiot proof" design had worked, but it was reported by hysterical know-nothings and deceitful environmentalists as a disaster like the one in the sensationalist movie, "The China Syndrome", which was released a few weeks before the TMI event. Even before TMI, though, the multiple environmental studies, requirement that the entire process start over if even minor changes (improvements) were made to the design, and interminable lawsuits meant that plants were 10-15 years out of date before construction began. I recall visiting the site of a Virginia Power plant that was cancelled after the Three Mile Island incident. The equipment was being auctioned (most of the equipment in a nuke plant is normal industrial grade equipment). The good news for potential buyers was that everything was preserved, and stored in huge climate controlled warehouses, so it was in new condition. The bad news was that most of it was 8 years old. Lawsuits and court orders had stopped construction even after the plant had gone through the process and was properly permitted. That nonsense has to change for nukes to have a hope of being cost effective.

[tinhorn]

We also have more oil in North America than the whole middle east. There are lots of know oil reserves in Canada, Alaska, off the Pacific and gulf coasts, Rocky Mountains and in Mexico, perhaps 200-300 years worth.

Kinda makes one wonder if there is a plan to exhaust Middle East oil before tapping into our own. By that time it may be up to $250 a barrel, and you KNOW the price won't drop. In the meantime, I guess we better stop annoying Canada and Mexico, eh?

[Frosty]

Kinda made you wonder? Obvious realy, though it will do you no good. The rest of the world will be on Hybrids then or electric.

[Wynand N]

we have seen our standard of living erode to a point whereby we hardly have one, I mean a good standard of living....

be glad you are not in South Africa my mate. Never has my beautiful country being in such a mess in my 52 years of existence. And be backwards spiral started after 1994 - do I need to say more.

Roads are totally ****** up and at times better to ride next to some of them.
Corruption at the order of the day - cops are the most notorious ones - I got off with a measly 50ZAR the other day doing 154kph in a 100 zone... again, it is the only goverment in the world where you need to have been a terrorist, bomplanter, killer of inocent people etc to be a member of parliament or better still, president.

Social structures and hospitals are a farce and in my town even the public swimming pool is just an empty hole in the ground - play parks torn down for scrap metal to be sold.

You get a job not because you earn it, have the qualifications or expertise, but because of colour - this was actually the case of my country's black-out we now so regularly experiences and was reluctantly confirmed on national TV by ESKOM- recent black-out now not because of lack of maintenance anymore (affirmative action) but technical problems:confused:
Crime is a way of life here - actually we are officially the most violent country in the world now. Our houses are enforced like jails to try and keep your family safe and still people get overpowered. Farmers supplying food for the country are top of the murdered list....
Rape is a way favourite past time, so are murders and hijackings of vechiles. You try not to stop at a traffic light or stop street if a person(s) is standing there. A neat trick is to smash your car window and grab womens handbags and belongings.
Houses, cars and persons get robbed daily and that my mate, is not fun anymore. Actually, we have a name for these fuckers - AFFIRMATIVE SHOPPERS
Cost of consumer goods and food is through the roof..
More bloody Nigerians, Zimbabweans here than locals and they are the real brains behind crime sindicates and drugs etc.
Lastly, copper.....let me leave it at that

and you are complaining in that beautiful country of yours, which incidentally have most of my brainy fellow country men down there....:(

[Frosty]

Sounds crap , when are you leaving then?

[Splint]

Eu has free uni, we dont, there is no public transport so kids have to have car, my kids are apprenticed, 5.60 hour, try live on that, NZ wage is over twice that
now be reasonable and say something constructive

From what I understand, allthough Uni in Australia certainly isn't free it is quiet a bit cheaper than the US and many Asian countries, hense the large numbers of international students in Australian Universities.
The apprentice pay rate here in Oz is something of an issue at the moment and has been for quiet some time. We will eventually have a desperate shortage of tradespeople if employers and/or the government don't do something to attract more people into the trades and pay them more. A couple of years back the Liberal Government granted all new apprentices cash to buy a tool kit, this may have drawn a few in but I beleive it was a token jesture, it does not address the issue that is causing young people to persue other opportinities. I guess the up side to that is that mature aged apprentices are becoming much more common, ideal for someone who wants to do a carrer change or become more qualified. There are however opportunities for tradies to earn good money. With the mining boom here in Oz tradespeople are in huge demand can very easily get a job that pays $100,000 per year, allthough they need to be able to deal with the difficult conditions and be careful not to fall into the drinking culture of the outback mining towns. Another alternative for tradies is to work in big industry. I work for an automotive manufacturer and earn $31 per hour. On top of that is shift allowance of 17% for afternoon and 30% for nightshift. Add in overtime at time and a half or double time or double time and a half rates a lot of coin can be made there. I'm not trying to brag or undermine the point you're making but a couple of times in recent years I have grossed over the 100k mark, that's more than some university qualified professionals earn. I understand there is even more money to be made for opperators in production environments, no real qualifications required, just a willingness to work rotating shifts which average a 38 hour week which may and often does mean working weekends and public holidays.
There are certainly plenty of people struggling financially in Australia but I think you will find that occours in all countries regardless of interest rates or general economic conditions. For some of these people, but certainly not all, it is brought on by living beyond their means and a complete failure to plan for a rainy day. The rate of residential mortgage forclosure has jumped dramatically over the last few rate rises, there is nothing new about that, it happens every financial cycle and essentially comes down to poor planning as people take out big loans when rates are low without allowing for future rate rises.
I have a mate here in Oz who is now about 38 years old, he has for the most part of his working carrer worked as a gymnastics coach and ran various sporting programs for kids, he was an employee of an organization, not his own business so he has never been earning a high income, he has never won money or come into significant money or assets in any other way. He is now financially independant and only works to keep himself entertained and occupied. He has done this through real estate investing which doesn't take much cash or intelegence to do, just a bit of common sense, planning and commitment.
I've travelled a little in my time, I've been to some SE Asian countries, Florida, Papua New Guinnea and Mexico, certainly not enough contries to be able to claim I know how well off the average person is but having said that I think here in Australia we generally have a very high standard of living and the majority of people have enough disposable income to keep themselves entertained.

Cheers
Splint

[safewalrus]

tin horn, you noticed!

Wynard, of course it is, trouble is it's the same all over Africa thanks to the world not knowing about yer Philomons main ability to do nothing 'cept murder, rape and steal - anything but work!

They've ruined many a good country that the white man started, and got going. They look they see, they thing I could do with some of that but most of them are still in the dark ages - and thats the better ones!! The anthropigists talk about the 'missing link' between humans and monkeys? Pretty obvious really what it is! Unfortunately the do gooders of the world (who would let their daughters marry one - me I'm not into beastiality) think otherwise. They've just about ruined this one and as for "the greatest nation in the world" (their statement not mine) they really are on the way down, trouble is they don't see it yet (some few do and they are rightfully panicking)! Just wait until they vote that one into office................end of

[safewalrus]

Eh? What? who me? but!!! I thought !! errrrrr

For a start Safie can not write a concise and clear post, and if he did how come it was'nt clear and concise to me then?

(Thumbs behind lapels) ,--I rest my case.

Try this one Frosty, in something even you may understand

"go away - idiot":o

Oh how polite

Probably would not be able to understand it - to polite, and a couple of wordas with two syllabels in them!! that's totally buggered him now:P

[Frosty]

Safie if you use Firefox you will get a free spelling checker.

Mind you it does'nt give advice of how to string a few words together in a sentence. You will have to go to school for that.

[Wynand N]

I totally agree with you Safewalrus.....

[safewalrus]

Snowball theres only one 'Firefox' I like to use near you! Guess the Soviets could have a few spare?

Wynand - sad isn't it, trouble is in the modern climate theres not much we can do (I know what I'd like to do..............................me and a few million others)

[Kaptin-Jer]

Amazing.
We think the grass is always greener somewhere else. It's all relative, and we are all ruled by the international corporations. Why don't we have good electric cars (anymore)? Why is an unworkable VERY expensive alternative (Hydrogen) being forced down our throats? Why is our food supply being used for fuel?

[Frosty]

Where walrus and Wynand are concerened the grass IS greener somewhere else.

As far as using the food supply for food, Walrus will still be using horse manure for building houses, he also has a pile of it in his bedroom as a deoderant.

[Kaptin-Jer]

My wife has been blaming the boat for the reason we don't have any money. Now I can tell her is the global economy!

[Frosty]

Just tell her it is an investment and worth far more than you will sell it for.

Say it quickly!!!

[westlawn5554X]

It a way of life... American and Australian were given a dream to own a perfect home and ultimate 4X4 SUV... in mortgage... It start the building industry n open up land until...

Anyway, tis hard for Westerner to be thrifty , their family always believe the father figure would bring back frozen juicy T-bone or roost something... and tons of beer...

Beauty of Asia is they can have simple spicy food platable...:)

Me? I do 3 X a week eating porriage with salt fish... simple and open up my taste buds... never have a problem eating more veggie then meat...

[lazeyjack]

trubble is with the ferkin natives*white) the bastards wont walk 50m to the shop, gotta drive there in Jap 4x4

[masalai]

Westie, It is not restricted to "whities" - anyone who "aspires" to get out of the "Subsistence" rut... Even if they have never been in it - maybe seen it in the news or at church etc... Most Indians are afflicted this way, (my wife for one), & surprising many of your fellow countrymen...

It is just western society is more obvious because of the imaginary existence portrayed in movies is tacken as fact - not 100% true - the poor hide their poverty in obesity (poor diet) and drug abuse (escapism?)

I can live quite comfortably without such extremes and in comfortably modest circumstances - as I presume you do...

[westlawn5554X]

Mmmm... I am glad you are different , I salute you for being unqiue :)

I know this dog food in a can is a form of cheap meat for the elder that cant afford in life. We live in a beautiful imperfect world...

[SamSam]

be glad you are not in South Africa my mate.
Houses, cars and persons get robbed daily and that my mate, is not fun anymore. Actually, we have a name for these fuckers - AFFIRMATIVE SHOPPERS

Are handguns legal there? Or any guns?

[Wynand N]

Are handguns legal there? Or any guns?

Basically every jobless black or criminal have at least one fire arm. Military weapons are more fashionable amongst them and that is how most of the big robberies and heists are committed.

Guns are legal, but to get a license new or renewed are a bit problematic these days and again it favours the criminal. Usually, when you are confronted by these affirmative shoppers, they demand a firearm from you first, then hopefully hope they do not kill you and rape your woman.
Worse still, our laws are so corrupt like their makers, that for instance, you cannot shoot a person even in your house:!: If you shoot him, you get charged and arrested. Imagine this people from the first world countries, you are in your house, fenced and palisade around, gates locked - many times electrified as well, your windows closed and burglar barred like jail windows, and you wakeup facing a gun, or if you are lucky, hear him/them before he gets to you. You pull out your gun if you are lucky to have one and if he is in your room, shoot him. Man, you are in for a tough time. If this fucker was not in the actual process of shooting you, struggling or attacking you, you are treated by our equally corrupt and crooked police force as the perpetrator and pig in the story.....remember, you shot his brother / comrade.

Actually, this was exactly what happened to someone I knew - shot the bastard in his bedroom - asked the court must he wait until he is killed, then his wife was raped before he can act in self defense and was sentenced to imprisonment for 5 years. **** man, you are sleeping in the supposedly safety of your heavily guarded home and must still give way to crooks - what a farce...:?:
And you know what the defense of the criminal was in my friend's case above - he was lost...:confused: and he won..

Welcome to South Africa.. the country with the most modern and liberal democracy in the world, or so they say, the rainbow nation, but I fail to see black in that rainbow and...
Welcome to my country where tourist are easy pray and are regulary robbed and killed. The other day a Brit was stabbed and his girlfriend then gang raped in front of him. A few weeks ago a rep of the FIFA soccer ball for 2010, was killed on a private golf estate a few hours after setting foot here for his watch, wallet and shoes.

If you are interested in the 2010 soccer cup and love you current state of health, please pass and stay away. The crime scene get worse every day and all those tourist are gonna be fair and easy targets here. It mystifies my mind how FIFA could have awarded the cup in the first place.

BTW, the newest past time for crooks - blasting ATM's to the teller in the sky with explosives - nearly an daily occurrence here

Disclaimer; In now way was racism intended, but hell, I'm staying in this hell hole...

[safewalrus]

Wynard for a charge to stick, first they have to know that a crime was committed, for that they need a body!!

You got a large garden? cement mixer? need for a new patio? I'm not suggesting you do anything illegal, but a man still is allowed to lay a patio isn't he? and well how and when he works is up to him? he may not be able to work during the day!!

Alternatively you are near the coast, there's sharks.......... OOOOps he fell of the boat!!

[SamSam]

Wynand, it doesn't sound good at all. I think what I would do to help is get a few big doorbells, I like German Shepherds. And as Walrus suggests, good takes a backseat in a bad situation.

[lazeyjack]

nothing different than in NZ, your gun MUST be locked, if you kill someone it is murder EVEN if he is in your room with an iron bar
White rule was kinder than black,
It is quite true that many black races are cruel beyond belief, necklacing and chucking babies in the air and catching upon end of assengai was common Zula practice\
My town here has many ex SA and Zim folk, the are usually hard working, their kids have very good manners
They all lost farms, one went back recently, his swimming pool was a rubbish tip
it is also true that White police in the apartheid era, where vicious thugs in general.
Wnyard, calm down my son .Leave
Many people judge other races by what they read, I try not to , but what I see, when I travel, then that is different
My kids come back home, blasting aboriginees, but they got that from peers who got it from their parents I tell them UNTIL you mix dont judge, and the average white here has neevr met or spoken to one
I worked in my youth with 18 Maoris, in a bush felling gang, I was the only white By this experience I was able to judge and comment

[masalai]

I am NO lawyer, but I can recall reading somewhere that "reasonable force" is appropriate, ie if the intruder has a pistol, then appropriate defensive force may be applied to defend oneself to the point of neutralising the threat but NO MORE... (disarm the intruder by use of a golf club from the bag you placed in the entry-foyer after returning from a game & forgot to put away etc etc...) - you called "FORE" first as is appropriate for any stroke which may cause inconvenience to other players in the fairway:D:D

Sorry - such a painful situation - I had to try to lighten it with a little perverse humour...

So true Lazyjack, so true...

[Frosty]

In Uk you can be sued if a burglar falls through your unsafe garden shed roof, (shoulda been a sign on it) also the broken glass in cement on top of the wall,---illegal, (thieves may cut themselves).

And loose drainpipes must be secure, if a burglar falls off them you are in trouble.

If I dont like where I am I leave.

[Landlubber]

The grass is greener on the other side of the fence, but you still have to mow the lawns.

[safewalrus]

Frosty the use of signs is not sufficent restraint, need fences etc! And again no offence is committed if you don't have a body - just hope they don't come in gangs, you gotta get 'em all!

[charmc]

Wynand,

While we know it's wrong to generalize, it can be hard to sound like you're not generalizing when most of the criminals share one trait in common. It must be extraordinarily difficult for good people, like your employees, who share a superficial appearance with the criminals but want to make a better life the "old fashioned way", i.e.hard work. Especially difficult for everyone wanting to do the right thing when the government seems to be in denial, refusing to address the reality that far too many of the people its heroes fought to free have become violent criminals.

Your Mr Nqakula, with the ironic title of Minister of Safety and Security (who said governments have no sense of humor?) made international headlines not so long ago when he traveled to Burundi (a country which seems to have made tribe vs tribe genocide the national pastime). He offered to consult with the Burundi government on methods to bring about peace and stable elections at the same time SA was suffering its highest rate of murders of police officers.:confused: He made headlines again with his response to MPs who complained that he was doing nothing to address the violence, "They can continue to whinge ... or they can leave the country." Hmmm, that should do a lot to reduce violence. :rolleyes:

In the past few months, SA has used its position on the UN Security Council to block a resolution condemning governments which support organizations that encourage rape.

I sympathize with your anger, Wynand. There are many serious problems in the world, but the violent crimes you describe are intolerable. No government that allows that degree of crime to go unchecked has ever lasted for long.

Besides, your problems are nothing compared to Masalai's. Apparently his beloved TV programs in which f__k is a common term may be restrained:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/strewth-aussies-reel-at-tv-swearing-799042.html

No disrespect meant, my friend; as Mas said, sometimes one has to laugh because the alternative is tears.

[masalai]

Ahhh no worries, that is the bunch of electoral loosers from the radical religious right of the liberal party (Johnny Howards servants), expressing self-righteous indignation... 2 year old grandson in law can't put a sentence together but can get the use of "bugger" perfectly when something is dropped and breaks, or being a mechanic at heart tries to make EVERY device he finds do something... Set off a loud alarm and said in amazement "****" as if to deny he was the cause... and Daddy and Mommy are AVOWED Liberals of the extreem right who would have slave labour re-introduced if the opportunity arose...

Besides, it is enshrined in case study of the courts and would take more than a fortune to overturn that ruling...

[charmc]

That stupidity that charges the person who defends his/her home against invaders has spread to the US. A few years ago a man working in a large city was awakened around 3:00 AM by the sound of a window breaking in his kitchen. He got his gun, then yelled that he had a gun so the intruder had better leave. The intruder fired at him and he returned fire. The intruder jumped back out the window and the resident called police.

To make a long story short, despite the bullet imbedded in a wall of his apartment, the resident was charged with assault and battery (he wounded the invader) and discharging a firearm without a valid permit (when he was laid off from his guard job he was supposed to have removed the employer's name from his gun permit) and sentenced to a year in jail. The home invader, who, of course, got rid of his gun, claimed he was drunk and climbed in the wrong window to avoid waking his girlfriend, never had a gun, and was himself a victim. He pled guilty to misdemeanor trespass, received a suspended sentence and a fine, and sued the resident after he got out of jail. :mad:

Sometimes you have to wonder if the survivalist nutcases don't have a point or two.

[charmc]

Safie,

I've heard more than one person say that if one ever has to defend one's home, be sure the body disappears. Sounds like sage advice, sometimes. :rolleyes:

[masalai]

and the gun has the fingerprints of the "baddie" only - musta shot hiself...

[Frosty]

Makes yer think don't it?

If I ever get into trouble I just say to the judge that I had trouble with my potty when I was 2

Which is true!!! I had trouble with that bloody thing untill I was 39

[masalai]

An e is only 28 now, amazing what a life of debauchery, gluttony and booze can do to a young and impressionable mind and body - - deepest sympathies... :D:D:D

[lazeyjack]

Safie,

I've heard more than one person say that if one ever has to defend one's home, be sure the body disappears. Sounds like sage advice, sometimes. :rolleyes:
had some pretty bad things happen to me, but to take a life?
wow!! in self defence yes,
But if I had a weapon and I had a man in my sights, I would always say, get out, pulling that trigger is so final, so very very final
Civilized folk do not kill, despite all the movies which tell it different
When I was younger, I planned to kill this man who took 3 years of my life, i used to lay awake planning perfect crime
Now I am appauled to think I was planning such
Now I would simply break all his fingures and stick the wet end in his eyes

[Frosty]

[QUOTE=I would simply break all his fingures and stick the wet end in his eyes[/QUOTE]

Ha,- you big softy ,--and I thought you were a tough guy.

[safewalrus]

A short simple death is the most humane way of removing any sick animal is it not? do we not 'put down' our sick and lame dog who is suffering in his old age? What's the difference between a sick dog and a sick 'uman (and in certain cases who said it was 'uman anyway?)

You a vegan then Lazey? don't eat meat? if you do as from now consider yourself a hypocrit! Go tell me that's different, what the cow or sheep every do to you? yet you had it killed so you could eat it! At least the burgalar is wronging you in someway!!

[lazeyjack]

A short simple death is the most humane way of removing any sick animal is it not? do we not 'put down' our sick and lame dog who is suffering in his old age? What's the difference between a sick dog and a sick 'uman (and in certain cases who said it was 'uman anyway?)

You a vegan then Lazey? don't eat meat? if you do as from now consider yourself a hypocrit! Go tell me that's different, what the cow or sheep every do to you? yet you had it killed so you could eat it! At least the burgalar is wronging you in someway!!
what on earth are you on abt, lost me totally, who was talking abt eating?

[masalai]

Jack, I think I upset Safie by insinuating that I could well end up eating walrus if this global warming turned out to be global freezing. Just posted again to say what a noble gesture he was making by offering his body as food for the starving???

[safewalrus]

had some pretty bad things happen to me, but to take a life? wow!! in self defence yes,
But if I had a weapon and I had a man in my sights, I would always say, get out, pulling that trigger is so final, so very very final
Civilized folk do not kill, despite all the movies which tell it different


Lazey answer the question "Do you eat meat?" If you do "would you kill it?" if not why do you eat it because it's obvious you do not have the "guts" to kill it yourself so you kill it by proxy!!

If however you do and would kill your meat you are a killer! There is no difference in killing a pig, cow or human - it's all meat! This therefore would make your statement above hipocrisy! are you a hipocrite Lazey? or just a ...........

Civilized people do kill........................................ regularly!

[lazeyjack]

oh I see!!! dont be so picky
yes I have shot a heifer, she was in calf as a calf herself, when I bought her(not that I knew) so when she came to calf, she could not, so rather than pain I shot her. I have shot my own dog for worrying sheep,, that was tough
Do I eat meat, no, just chicken and pork and beef, and fish
Dont hippocrit me ya bastard

[lazeyjack]

rather than new thread , read thsi, how bloody stupid, I would have told this woman off for being so stupid
But nope they are giving her a medal

here are photos
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10500392
Policewoman tipped for honour after leap from boat )
5:00AM Thursday March 27, 2008
By Jarrod Booker
Constable Sarah McLauchlan, who jumped from her craft on to a Greenpeace boat, has been recommended for a commendation. Photo / Simon Baker

Constable Sarah McLauchlan, who jumped from her craft on to a Greenpeace boat, has been recommended for a commendation. Photo / Simon Baker

* View Photos

Your Views
Does the policewoman deserve a commendation for her jump?

* Send us Your Views


Climate Change

* Coral could unlock clues to climate
* Brian Fallow: At loggerheads over trees

A policewoman is in line to receive a commendation after hurling herself at a Greenpeace boat to quell a protest that caused chaos at a busy port.

Constable Sarah McLauchlan was one of about 30 police called to the protest on Tuesday in which Greenpeace protesters used their Rainbow Warrior II vessel to block a coal export ship's departure, and attached themselves to the ship's hull.

Six people were arrested and charged during the drama at Lyttelton Port, near Christchurch.

The Herald understands further charges will be considered at a meeting of police and maritime authorities today, including possible action against the Rainbow Warrior II skipper and Greenpeace itself.

Police have criticised Greenpeace for using tactics which drew such a large amount of police resources, but Greenpeace says the police numbers were "totally unnecessary".

Ms McLauchlan was captured on camera diving from a craft carrying police to an inflatable Greenpeace boat to prevent it blocking the coal ship's departure. She could not be reached yesterday while out on the beat.



But Inspector Malcolm Johnston said Ms McLauchlan had been recommended for the District Commander's Commendation by her sergeant, who rated highly her actions in the circumstances.

She put herself at risk by leaping across the water in 15 to 20 knot winds and choppy seas, Mr Johnston said.

"At the end of the day there was an element of danger. She could have hit her head and fallen into the water unconscious." The craft she jumped on to was an "integral part" of the protest blockade and had to be stopped, Mr Johnston said.

Simon Boxer of Greenpeace claimed Ms McLauchlan only had to ask to go aboard the inflatable craft.

The Rainbow Warrior is due to arrive at the Port of Otago today in the next step on a national climate change tour. A spokeswoman for Lyttelton Port would not comment when asked if the Rainbow Warrior would be allowed back.

[SamSam]

Rather than leaping onto the Greenpeace boat, it looks more like she fell off the police boat. Humans are a sad bunch.

[masalai]

I agree Sam, looks like that Orofaice pushed her... I bet he was hoping she would fall in the water - "wet shirt" thing - dirty young man...

[tinhorn]

I like one of the responses on that site:

No, she deserves nothing albeit the protest is a complete waste of police resources. The question should be why Greenpeace target their disruption in NZ as China, Indonesia and India are by far the biggest coal producers, why don't Greenpeace take their protests there? The answer is they are gutless as they know the police in those countries won't put up with their crap.
NZ coal exports equals only 0.1% of the world markets so why are 20% of Greenpeace's total protest fleet in our harbours? Because they know we are an easy target and a soft PC touch. What a waste of taxes!

[masalai]

Bunch of troglodyte / Luddite reporters, The Greenpeace is on its way elsewhere after playing tag with whales trying to keep the Japs from getting their kill quota... And it was the lack of security that allowed the frogs to sink the Greenpeace mother ship on the way over to protest the blowing up of Muroroua (spell?)... (In an effort to divert/distract readers?)

[Frosty]

Not all milk and honey? You can say that again.

[masalai]

OK, Just for you Frosty "Not all milk and honey?"

[lazeyjack]

Bunch of troglodyte / Luddite reporters, The Greenpeace is on its way elsewhere after playing tag with whales trying to keep the Japs from getting their kill quota... And it was the lack of security that allowed the frogs to sink the Greenpeace mother ship on the way over to protest the blowing up of Muroroua (spell?)... (In an effort to divert/distract readers?)

how the hell do you know this? I was tied up at same wharf as Rainbow Warrior the night she was sunk

[masalai]

Lazy, purveying more "red herrings" to elicit kiwi outrage/response and for tinhorn's post relating to further detail on the action by NZ reporters - why this Greenpeace ship, "Steve Irwin" went (so far out of the way) to NZ, instead of elsewhere? - - (the luddites/etc) forgetting that it is probably en route & to show the flag to the local "rainbow warriors"... - - & that the NZ'ers were probably still smarting over the sinking some 20?? years ago - the 2 French secret service bods charged & convicted were released soon after returning to France on a "prisoner exchange"...

[safewalrus]

Bit of a silly girl putting herself at risk like that, when all they had to do was ram the motorised contraceptive, or let the coal boat ram it, it would have shifted then - the skipper would have been justified as it was putting his ship and crew 'at risk'

[Roly]

Bunch of troglodyte / Luddite reporters, The Greenpeace is on its way elsewhere after playing tag with whales trying to keep the Japs from getting their kill quota... And it was the lack of security that allowed the frogs to sink the Greenpeace mother ship on the way over to protest the blowing up of Muroroua (spell?)... (In an effort to divert/distract readers?)

Oh, security, were we presumely at war with Fance?
That was a cowardly act of terrorism and arrogant French noses were rubbed in it. Not as much as should have happened but nevertheless wtf can
a diminative country like ours do about it.
Stay of the pipe.

[masalai]

Roly, I did not say WHOSE security... On another tack, is there any video footage of that female copper "jumping?" it looks like she was pushed... (by the "buddy" standing behind her)

[Roly]

Whatever.
Nah, can't find any footage but you should read the comments on "should she get a medal"...bloody helarious.
http://blogs.nzherald.co.nz/blog/your-views/2008/3/27/does-policewoman-deserve-commendation-her-jump/?c_id=1501154&commentpage=1

Seargent has proly got the "hots" for her.

Don't think she was pushed....then again maybe the boys wanted her blue shirt "wet".
I wonder if a guy jumped would he have been recommended for a medal? 30 Cops attended?

What a joke! The cops cred in this country is at an all time low. Its all Helen's fault.

[masalai]

I wonder who took the pics in the Herald? I bet the few taken before the published series would tell a whole new story... Got a buddy in the Herlad? Get the "befores" and publish on "Grumpy...." in this forum

[safewalrus]

Co'mon guys it's the best 'jump' she's had all year! And in 'broad' daylight too, of course she deserves a medal! As for the landing.................so does the guy who pushed her!!

[lazeyjack]

that is why we left NZ because of the ridiculous trendy lefty government
All my family are there, but I would never go back
You need a permit there to do absolutely everything
You cant alter your bathroom without,
Knew of a guy in Parnell wanted a verandah, permits and engineers reports cost him over 20000
You can not have a wood heater in a new home now UNLESS you live on 10 acres or more The insidious tenticles of Government creep everywhere

[safewalrus]

Not to different to anywhere else really!! Just come at it from a different direction is all!!

[masalai]

Not all Milk & Honey, but it could be if you DOWNLOAD THIS AND LISTEN - it is an MP3 file http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/current/audioonly/bia_20080518.mp3 it is all about "Muhammad Yunus, - - Australia is witnessing yet another round of bank mergers. The big grow bigger on the pretext that size maters in a global economy. But small also matters. The Grameen Bank is heralded internationally as a lifesaver for tens of thousands of people. Based on the unworldly principle of micro credit the bank lends over half-a-billion each year. It invokes inverse rules of banking: if you have nothing they want to know you. Business Week named its founder Muhammed Yunus as one of the greatest entrepreneurs of all time. His portrait hangs next to Henry Ford and John D Rockefeller. Muhammed Yunus recounts the remarkable work of Grameen, over three decades. with the poor and neglected."

Listen and feel ASHAMED, then think what you can do about helping....

[Meanz Beanz]

Subprime MkII is on its way... IMHO you hold financial stocks at your peril, better off to be exposed to the commodities, even better still the monetary commodities. We have just kicked off this game and with western governments producing money at rates in the high teens higher inflation is here to stay at least until we meet Mr Volker MkII with 20%+ rates. This process transfers the nations wealth from the bottom end of the scale to the upper end. You will see a greater and faster growing wealth divide than before, this is what monetary inflation does, subtly taxes the people in a way that very few realise. Thing is its totally under the control of the central bank, stop creating money at insane rates and it stops tomorrow... just ask Hitler, that's what he did... changed the currency and stabilized supply. Produce more of something and its worth less, any five year old gets it but not, it would seem, the central bankers of this world. The only answer is to own things that they cannot produce more of, cash is trash in this environment. I heard of tale of a Brazilian guy, simple soul, he bought fridges because everyone needs them right? He sold one every time he needed cash, sadly his strategy was moderately successful, the currency depreciation was out doing white good depreciation by a wide margin. There are better tangibles than fridges to own... but you can work out the rest.... If it worked over the last 20 years its highly unlikely to work over the next 20.

Stagflation, 70s MKII on steroids, recession for sure (now in the US?), depression --> don't laugh that one off!, I see massive interest rates in your future, reduce debt, eliminated debt, buy tangibles, buy real money --> gold, silver, platinum & palladium ----> this is in all probability going to be the economic ride of the century.

Now grease my palm and polish my crystal ball.... the fortune telling Ape is done :D

Oh... and Subprime MkII (Alt A) has nothing on the credit default swap market, that's one big angry momma waiting to say her piece!

Here's to hoping I'm a rabid ******** artist....

[masalai]

Sorry to say this Heinz, but I feel you are spot on...... I can see my boat getting further away as components and especially petroleum derived products (epoxy etc) become hard to get and more expensive....

May end up stealing one after everyone else is busy participating in global panic as it sets in with everyone running round and round in ever decreasing circles, or swinging on the end of a handy piece of rope, or try to kiss the footpath from the twentieth floor......

[Meanz Beanz]

Secondhand boats are going to be very cheap for a while :D

Cross palm, more silver :D

[masalai]

I am trying to buy some, you got a reliable source in Melb who would deliver? - 5 to 10 kg? - - - boats must be late model cats... around 36 to 40 ft nothing to pay for up to 3 years...

[Meanz Beanz]

No deposit, no interest for four years sir! *

* If you do not have a deposit we will not be interested for at least four years.

[masalai]

Only for the boat - cash for the silver....

[Meanz Beanz]

I deal with the Perth Mint but I rang around recently and from memory these guys seemed the most reasonable http://www.ausbullion.com.au @ +2%. I had the jokers up your way going for +10% on 1000 oz bars, I gagged at that.

You have a couple up your way maybe they will do a good deal if you front up and push for a reasonable deal.

http://www.ainsliebullion.com.au & http://www.goldbullionaustralia.com.au

I like James Turks setup http://www.bullionvault.com for larger amounts.

[Meanz Beanz]

http://www.shadowstats.com/article/292