Is rolling and tipping this easy

[mongo75]

http://unblockyoutube.org/index.php/1010110A/5edda1d94ac071ea66fce3ec118e047caa12c812be3b3bbe86de8c594becca703a0c7435b11bce9015832

I found this on youtube, and I thought it was somewhat more involved than this. Also, it seems to me the guy is tipping in the wrong direction, with a foam brush. I'm a spray guy, so is this guy doing it wrong, or is it really this easy?

I'm just waiting for Jim to chime in on this one.....

[Fanie]

The link you posted looks like a spam link. Why don't you just put the youtube link up ? I can just see the junk being sent from this.

[mongo75]

Well fanie, before you hit SEND did you even try to open it?? It's not a spam link- it's a link through a proxy server because where I work the computer Nazis won't let me get on sites like youtube, so I gotta go around through a proxy server. OK???? Why would I want to post spam??

If you don't believe me, go on youtube, do a search for "boatbuildercentral" and look up the post for rolling an tipping

[Fanie]

Nope. I hate filling in stuff. Did in the past and had to spend 6 months in vain and buy special software to get rid of spammers. It's not you that post the spam, it's the form that can be abused. Sorry if I seem overly sensitive about this kind of thing but it was an unpleasant experience :mad:

When clicking your link's link it brings up an empty video window... no video. I can see it's from free proxy.org

[mongo75]

Sorry about the empty window mate!

[grady]

Hey guy's Here's the link. http://youtube.com/watch?v=LTVVjzbA72U. hope this works. There was also a related clip, not roll and tip though.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eB1q2_iY4sE&feature=related

[Fanie]

I checked that vid... looks about right to me. Personally I would also prefer the spray instead. The hand job could leave a less smooth surface, a sprayed surface may get you to slip off it easier.

[Kaptin-Jer]

Awl Grip is a little more difficult, the paint is much thinner, like water, and you have to play with the reducer to get the right flow. Awl Grip says 25%, but I have gone as high as 40%. As with all paint the work is in the prep.
Jim posted a few pictures of my boat that I rolled and tipped and finished last week.
http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21327&page=5

[mongo75]

I'm kinda sorta thinking about rolling and tipping only because I don't have a tent, and the last boat I sprayed in front of my house, on a cul de sac LOL. I had to make sure it wasn't too windy so the neighbors cars wouldn't get paint on them!

[Kaptin-Jer]

It's a good way to go. I am not a pro and I don't have the equipment to spray and the marina that I'm in makes you tent the boat (4 sides, top and bottom), so over the past 4 years I taught myself how to roll and tip. Check out the photos on the link above. Any questions, I will be glad to help.

[GWB]

Jer - Awlgrip is like water? Does it flow like water? Now you've got me worried

[the1much]

heh,,,there ya go again kapt.,,,,scaring the "young'ns" ;)
dont worry man,,,he'll point ya the right way,,,and he does "know" what he talking bout,,,, ;)

[GWB]

I'm in a state of high anxiety over this paint job! :)

[PAR]

The video showed basic tipping off, though I have issues with some of the technique. I didn't see the brush wiped clean. The brush shouldn't be loaded with paint and it should be wiped off after each portion has been tipped or the brush is loading up. I also noticed the "tipper" was flicking his wrist at the end of his tip stoke. This is a great way to fling paint drops onto the work you just tipped off and it's especially true of a foam brush (which holds less paint and is drip prone). Lastly, there appeared to be more pressure on the brush then I've found necessary to do a good job. Tipping just requires a light amount of pressure, just enough to kiss the surface and knock down the paint. The brush should be near vertical, which the person in the video was trying to maintain through his stroke.

So yes Danny, tipping off is actually that easy. With just a little practice and good quality paint, you can rival a spray job. If you buff the tipped off job after it cures, then you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a spray or tipped paint job.

[the1much]

and P.S. ,,,if you got some dork watching ya,,leaning over ya work,,and jus plain , looking as dumbass as his "friend" did,,hehehe,,,,ive never done the snailing,,but,,even tho its jus a thingy showing how to do it,,,and i'd throw that foam brush on his friends head, the 1 thing Kapt. stressed,,,,,you can use a $1 roller,,,,,but put the money in what gives you your final look,,,,BUY A GOOD BRUSH hehe,,,see im so jealous i had to give my 1/2 cent worth hehe ;)

[mongo75]

Jim, even before I finished reading your post I was actually thinking of just slapping him with the brush, but yeah, throwing it works too LOL.

As much as I like spraying, I may need to roll and tip the current boat I'm working on, as it's just getting damn near impossible for the average Joe Blow to find a space big enough to do a nice CLEAN (no wind / dust blowing) spray job.

Seeing as how I'm an aircraft mech in the Marines, maybe I can ask my CO to let me use an empty hangar to spray the boat hehe

[the1much]

ive painted a handful of boats in airplane hangers ;)
and i would LOVE to know how to roll and tip,,,i think EVERY sprayer should,,or he shouldnt be called a painter,,,should be called a "sprayer" ;)
well not KNOW how,,,,i think kapt. got me talked through it,,,,i just need the energy,,,and someone that'll pay me enough to hehe ;)

[mongo75]

UH-OH, is Jim coming to the DARK SIDE??? LOL I think ya got him broken Kapt Jer

[the1much]

i'd only do it once,,,just to say i can,, and did,,heh ;)

[mongo75]

hehe ok!

[GWB]

Hmmmm......I have the perfect opportunity for you! Come visit us in beautiful Brookings Oregon! Tented workspace, sanding taken care of :)

[mongo75]

GWB- thanks for the offer, but I won't pay folks to do anything, so if you guys are offering a free paint job, I'll see ya in about a year!

[GWB]

Danny - I need the painting done on my boat....Jim was wanting an opportunity to learn how to roll and tip. :)

[mongo75]

OH, Ok, gotcha- sounds like a plan! hehe

[Kaptin-Jer]

Sorry Much, GWB,
I didn't mean to scare you, but there is a little more to rolling and tipping then was shown in that clip. Par was correct The brush needs to be kept clean. I work with (2) 2" camels. One is always in the acetone. The roller will blow up (literally) after about 20 min. You need to be able to change on the fly. You will need to adjust the reducer depending on the temperature, humidity, color of the coating and the fickleness of the paint gods. Don't roll any more than 8" on a hull. Always tip (very lightly top to bottom in the same direction all the time) this is not what awl grip says, but it works better. Never go back even if you see a run just keep going don't stop. Sand between each coat w/ 325. If you are lucky, and you are painting White you should be done in 3 coats. If you missed the reducer % and you are painting a dark color expect up to 5 coats. I don't usually disagree with Par, he has gotten me through 2 rebuilds, but if you are using Awl grip you should not buff. I know that in actuality the coating hasn't cured and you can buff, but if your reducer is good, and you get the flow, you will have no need to buff and this saves the hard shell coating that we pay so much money for.
The attached picture is my recently painted boat. Flag Blue, I'll never do it again. It was a very difficult color. Jim posted some other pictures of my boat ..He said he is going to put them in a brochure to advertise his own (spray) work.. But if you guys need any advise I am here. Email me if you would like.

[GWB]

Jer -

Can you change the reducer on the fly? How do you know how much reducer to add? If the reducer percentage is changed from coat to coat, does it change the color?
When you take the other brush out of the acetone do you just dry it with a rag? Do you switch out when the brush you are using starts to load up?

Thanks for the help

[Kaptin-Jer]

[QUOTE=GWB;189520]Jer -

Can you change the reducer on the fly?
Yes, On a large project you need to add reducer as you are painting when you feel the paint getting to thick
How do you know how much reducer to add?
That's why it can take 3 to 5 coats. Start with the MFG's recommendation. If the brush strokes do not flow out add another 5%. I have started at 25% and finally ended up at 40% with the Flag Blue. The white was at 25%
If the reducer percentage is changed from coat to coat, does it change the color?
I never had it change on me.
When you take the other brush out of the acetone do you just dry it with a rag? Do you switch out when the brush you are using starts to load up?
Yes and Yes, I flick off the acetone and dry it on my pants or shirt. Don't forget you are on a scaffold with the brush in one hand the roller in the other and the paint tray the the other hand. Don't ask you'll have to work that out yourself

[westsail42]

What these guys said!

Have a spare badger brush for tipping handy.

The vid is pretty much how we did it, except I would not recommend "pouring" the paint on the surface. Load up the roller in a proper paint tray.

[westsail42]

Also, not sure what the other guys on this thread think, but...

The fellow who sprayed our 28 footer a couple months ago, said that a good roll/tip job can "last longer" than a typical spray job. That is, go longer before you need to consider waxing and buffing. He commented the gloss on our ten year old roll/tip paint looked really good for ten years (ignoring the dings and scratches).

He indicated a LPU spray job will last about 6 years before the gloss starts going.

YMMV

[the1much]

thats cause i didnt spray it,,hehe ;)
but,,for MOST spray jobs he's right,,,for my "well-to-do) customers,,,6 years is minimum ,,8 usual,,,for my (poor skid rows like me) everyday dudes,,,i get them bout 12 years with the same looks as the previous,,heh,,,but,,you do get a longer, thicker,paint job snailing it,,,,but shhhhh,,,,dont tell martha ;)

[PAR]

Interestingly enough, I've found that disposable foam brushes (which can be attacked by some paints and swell) lay down the least number of stroke marks then all but the very best brushes. I use to use nothing but the best brushes, but now have switched to good (solvent resistant) foam. The simple reason is I can toss the foam brush without care, whereas with the good brush, a fair amount of upkeep and storage is required to clean it, keep it in good order and store it.

Foam brushes don't load up as nicely as a good brush, but this also prevents you from overloading. They also can be prone to dripping, but watchful use is the key to a good brush job and you can always apply another coat if necessary.

I buy them by the case, which saves a little money. I also use the good ones, which are typically twice the cost of a hardware store foam brush, but don't fall apart (literally) in the middle of a paint job. The other neat thing is you can cut and shape them to fit contours and recesses or difficult areas, which you'd never dream of with your fancy hair brush.

I came to these conclusions after performing a simple test several years ago. I had a section of varnished plywood, that had been removed from a project, as part of a remodel. I applied more varnish with different brushes and found the foam (a surprise to me) was less "strokey" then all but my $50 brush, which I prized and took care of. The foam and good brush preformed equally, with the limitations listed above, so that was the call after several test coats. I still have the good brushes, but they see a lot less use now, preferring to whip out a cheap foam puppy, then toss it in the can.

[the1much]

Par,,,how does the foam brush's do on making air bubbles?,,,ive used them before on like polyurethane on an end table, and seemed to make more "air" then when i used a brush.,,,,of course i was probably trying in the middle of "meds" time hehe ;)

[GWB]

Westsail 42 - I was the guy asking all the questions about painting the other day on your blog. Good to see you here!

[GWB]

PAR - could you tell us the foam brush model and make that you use please?

[Kaptin-Jer]

Hay Paul,
Yes I would like to know the foam brush secret too. I have paid close to $30.00 for my brushes and spend more time cleaning them then using them. The foam brushes I have tryed "blow up" or fall apart.

[the1much]

its your "grip",,,opps sorry

[Kaptin-Jer]

I'll say it again Much.. these guys are going to wake up one day and realize that they have been taking marine advise from a guy that lives in the desert.:P

[westsail42]

PAR - could you tell us the foam brush model and make that you use please?

I tried the dark gray foam "Poly Brush" disposable brush (sorry that is all I have on them, sold by Fisheries Supply). DO NOT use them with LPU paint. The solvents will disintegrate the foam within minutes and you will have tiny bits of foam to pick out (don't ask how I know).

I did try one of the disposable "synthetic bristle brush" from Ace Hardware that worked really well. It is thin, with a fine edge. Got the bubbles, paint flowed out well. Best of all, its cheap.

[the1much]

thats "the land of non-skid",,,not a desert :P ;)

[Kaptin-Jer]

I tried the dark gray foam "Poly Brush" disposable brush (sorry that is all I have on them, sold by Fisheries Supply). DO NOT use them with LPU paint. The solvents will disintegrate the foam within minutes and you will have tiny bits of foam to pick out (don't ask how I know).

I did try one of the disposable "synthetic bristle brush" from Ace Hardware that worked really well. It is thin, with a fine edge. Got the bubbles, paint flowed out well. Best of all, its cheap.

We have been talking mostly about Awl Grip and I know that you can't use that foam for tipping. Even the "good" rollers will only last about 20 min. Unless Par can give me the name of a foam brush that can hold up to Awl Grip I'll keep cleaning my expensive brushes. They have been good to me so far.

[Kaptin-Jer]

thats "the land of non-skid",,,not a desert :P ;)

If that makes you feel better then that's what we will call that place from which you hail......The 1much from the land of non-skid.... now take your meds and go to sleep.......

[PAR]

I'm getting my brushes through a mercantile exchange. They're repackaged so I don't know who the manufacture is. I do know they are polyurethane and they have plastic handles. Most bubbles are caused by too much pressure or moving way too fast with the brush. Tipping off is a very light touch and should be done relatively slowly. I've never used they with a two part polyurethane, only singles, oils and acrylics.

Of course being a butthead, I post this reply in the wrong thread and Charlie had to bail me out. No wonder his rep is so high . . .

[Kaptin-Jer]

Thanks Par, I thought you gave up on us. I'll keep my eye out for that type of foam brush. I would like to try it with varnish.

[the1much]

hahahaha,,,,,sounds like Par has been in my "meds" hehehe ;)
and i think he's saying its my "grip" again kapt. hehe ;)

[Kaptin-Jer]

If you ever need to know anything about boats Par is THE MAN. You lost your grip a long time ago.

[the1much]

Par's my man-to-seek-out,,,,,except,,,,i dont want to know anything bout boats,,,,cause then i'd have to type more,,hehe ;)