Eco-Friendly Materials??

[bigalogigalo]

Hi, are there any eco-friendly materials out there to construct hulls from?

[Landlubber]

Wood is good. It is 100% natural, laying about everywhere, just waiting to be picked up.

It would certainly be possible to build a boat out of wood that is simply lying there rotting, no need to chop it down, just go scavenging about, particularly in central Asia, you could possibly build a boat out of teak that is going to waste.

Just be rescourceful, and it will come.

[bigalogigalo]

it's not completely eco-friendly tho is it?

i can't see many manufacturers hunting round for recycled wood unless they absolutely had to....

it still has to be chopped down, which is a big enough problem as it is.....

[Landlubber]

You did not say that you were a manufacturer......

[bigalogigalo]

im not, im just thinking realistically in terms of mass manufacture....

ie are there any materials which are sustainable and viable for mass scale? or any which could be used?

i havent heard of any!! which is surprising considering the big push for a greener world at the min.

have you heard of any?

[the1much]

to do it from wood is easy,,and eco-friendly, and very renewable....all ya need ia enough land,,,cut an area,,replant, move to next area,,replant,,move again,,,then in10 to 20 years start at the original area. Paper mill companies do it every day,,,,,they just have problems making sure what they replanted doesnt get choked out by weeds ;)

[kach22i]

I'm told that careful vacuum bagging processes do not let any vapors into the air and that excess resin may be recycled into a storage vat.

[the1much]

I'm told that careful vacuum bagging processes do not let any vapors into the air and that excess resin may be recycled into a storage vat.
but,,,,the resin itself ( how its made, and from what its made from) isnt eco-friendly.
and P.S. Kach,,,,,,,them hovercrafts as fun as they look?,,,,,can i pilot yours?,,,actually i couldnt pilot one,,,,,but i can drive one ;)

[Kaptin-Jer]

Any material can be eco-friendly if handled with respect to the environment, but we don't, my self included. We have been down this road before (http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21016) with members getting into some pretty violent verbal attacks in regards to marine professionals against tree huggers / EPA. It was fun let's do it again.
Actually it is important to keep talking about even if we don't agree.

[Petros]

wood is great: it is non-toxic, tress grow continuously replacing the supply, and is mass produced by unskilled labor.

For a manufacturing environment grown lumber is not practical since it has to be hand selected, and the unusable cuts are scrapped. Very wasteful. If wood is production laminated however, than you get more consistent qualities and it would lend itself to a production line environment. It does not have to be hand selected.

Another advantage with laminates is you do not need large timbers, you can use relatively young second growth tress. Some products can even use wood chips and glue. For boat building with production laminates you would need to be able to place large enough orders so you can specify glue type, dimensions, surface finish and treatment, etc. It might even be possible for example to production laminate curved hull ribs and deck frames, have them pressure treated for rot resistance, and use an assembly jig to build the hulls with little custom fitting.

All other hull materials, metal, reinforced plastics (fiberglass, etc), concrete, etc. all are made from non-renewable raw materials. This is not true with wood structures.

And wood I think is one of the most attractive looking materials, even as a laminate.

[the1much]

kapt.,,,hehehe,,i wasnt gonna start,,,was just stating that,,,hahahaha,,,(im not gonna start,,,,,im not gonna start,,),, i didnt think resins constituted "green" because,,,,,,(,,not touching you,,,not touching you,,)heh,,of it not being non renewable,,ya,,that,,,(pssssst TY petros fer the scape) ;)hehehe
now,,see kapt.,,,learn from me and stop startin crap,,, ;) :D heheehe
ummm,,,by saying stop startin,,,,is that like one of those double wammy's errrrrr, double negative things,,,and now kapt gonna mess with my head??,,,someone please help,,,,i think that kapt. dude is a stalker:( :P :cool:

[fleetwing]

re there any materials which are sustainable and viable for mass scale?

Really, lets look at hemp..... grows fast renewable in 2 years , excess you can make fiber woven with hemp just as strong as e-glass, will absorb epoxy. use the same paper making process as the fed treasury, add cotton and hemp fibers, with recycled materials.... press in to thick sheets(like a veneer)cold-molding). ... Make laminates with epoxy... jig it, and your done.
put that in yer pipe and smoke it. to recycle.

:)

[the1much]

all that great green GONE by adding "epoxy",,,,is like a 500lbs dude ordering 4 big macks,,6 large fries,,,,and cause he's on a diet,,,,,a diet coke,,,make that 3
hehe ;)
and a hemp boat is just dangerous ,,,,trust me i've stared at my hemp t-shirt in "dry" times

[masalai]

Bigagigalo, you are asking a very difficult question and the only honest answer - nothing related to boat building.... Air if you can hold it in solid state without the use of energy....:D You do not need to ask anyone just thjimk....

[mongo75]

make a form from mold on the north side of trees, and then pour water all over it and take it up to Alaska and freeze it. There's your eco friendly renewable boat.

I myself like to melt tires with plastic bottles over an open flame and cool it by pouring the mix in the ocean so it forms sheets that I can cut to size with a welding torch. I usually do this as close to a nature preserve as I can so I can do my work with no one bothering me or asking questions. I then glue the sections together by stitching them and pouring acetone in the corners to weld it together. Some of it usually drips onto the beach or birds eggs but most of it just goes in the ocean, outta sight, outta mind ya know?

OK, I'm just kidding (don't call peta or greenpeace on me LOL) I'm sorry but other than using fallen wood and carving it like the Indians used to, I don't have any good suggestions myself for eco friendly boat building

[the1much]

hahaha

[bigalogigalo]

are there no bioplastics which are strong enough and use no epoxies etc. ?

[mongo75]

hey Jim I knew my response would be right up your alley LOL

[mongo75]

Bigalogigalo (damn that's long) what is a bio-plastic? The only kinda plastic you could use without epoxy is just a hard plastic like thye use for making injection molded plastic toys, i.e. a radio control boat hull, just on a much larger and thicker scale. Honestly I'm sure your intentions are good and all, but you gotta break eggs to make an omelet.....

[masalai]

Is italian-inglish for "big gigalo"? Plastic comes from petroleum, unless you will be using recycled stuff 1000's of tonnes from the tip or recycling centres... "Sail in last weeks plastic" has a "ring" to it but most of that plastic is unstable in UV - or is supposed to be:D

Sorry, Bigalogigalo, But I cannot see much that could be recycled for boats except for the crew, and being addicted, they only need help in with-drawl... Entry, like with naughty drugs, only takes money and a feeling for adventure and an innocent "try it out" and you become a wannabe or sailor for life:D

[Kaptin-Jer]

Lets make some suggestions :


Roll and tip instead of spray



If you spray tent the boat



Tent the boat and cover the floor for any sanding work



use a vacume with your sander


Thats a start that will get some pros neck hair standing up.

These are things we should be doing to be "green", but we don't, myself included. try sanding a 38' hull. Then try sanding the same hull dragging a vacume hose, working inside a tent thats 115 degrees. Yes we would all like to be green, but there is a point....

[the1much]

i do all cept the roll and tippin,,in fact,,the same things that make painting more eco-friendly are the same things you need to do to get a good paint job ;)

[bigalogigalo]

lol, no its 'big al gigalo'.... my name is al.....nickname big al ( ;) ) and gigalo....well i'll let you work it out....haha

intentions are all good yeah, no-one (manufacturers majorly) seems concerned that its becoming increasingly expensive to get oil to make the plastics, which will ultimately mean higher purchase prices on us....less people buying...industry suffering...people losing jobs etc....

I would have thought at least someone would be looking into using 'greener' materials for construction.

shame eh?

[kach22i]

but,,,,the resin itself ( how its made, and from what its made from) isnt eco-friendly.
and P.S. Kach,,,,,,,them hovercrafts as fun as they look?,,,,,can i pilot yours?,,,actually i couldnt pilot one,,,,,but i can drive one ;)
I think that a progressive view of "eco-friendly" includes the carbon footprint of the product lifecycle.

1. How much energy does it consume to produce the product?

2. How far do you have to ship or source it from?

3. How do you recycle or dispose of it when done?

4. How much energy does it consume when in operation?

I got a shop tour by the owner of this hovercraft builder last year. I think he told me that the resin is reproceessed for another use and not just thrown into a landfill. There are a bunch of regulations he is complying with that might not be technically "green" or "eco-friendly" but are in the same spirit. It might be that the resin will not activate or cure until it's applied to the section being fabricated, I forget the details but you may be able to pick some information up off their website or the article written about them.

Atlas Hovercraft:
http://www.atlashovercraft.com/

Article in Composite Technologies:
http://compositesworld.com/ct/issues/2007/February/111251

[Kaptin-Jer]

I see someone has taken classes to be certified in green construction. I have too, but be careful in this forum. These guys can get pretty nasty when you start talking about this and boat building / repair:)
This clip is the utimate green

[kach22i]

I see someone has taken classes to be certified in green construction. I have too, but be careful in this forum.
I know sevral other architects who have LEED certification and or are studying for it. Classes are not cheap, and it takes time - it's on my list of things to do. Until then I pick up basic information by reading and talking to other architects.

I've seen that salt-water thing before, pretty cool.

[the1much]

o.k.,,,the saltwater thingys coolz,,,cept.,,,,,hehe,,,,you need another "form" of energy to run the radio wave machinybobob.,,,,,and everyone( including me) has said wood,,,,but for the wood to be green,,,,it would have to be a "disposable" boat,,,because without chemical treatment doesnt wood rot and get water logged after a year or 2?

[simon]

A company called Braskem (www.braskem.com) is producing Polyethylene made of Alcohol. The alcohol used, is made of sugar cane. This could be a green plastic, but I do not know anything about the carbon footprint in production.

[the1much]

i see a thing on t.v. last night ( so it mus be true hehe) and it was on loggers,,both sides,,,well kinda,,,it was on the "industry",,,but about tree farms ( i own a 78acre "tree farm" in maine),,,,but anyways,,the dude said,," most "green" people and the "industry" dont mind working togather,,they even help each other in most places, and the "green" people are nat saying "stop logging" they just want it done in a responsible way,,and not harm the forests, but as in ANYTHING theres "radicals" that go over board.,,,,so i think we need to think more like the thread says,,,,,and think more "friendly" not totally green ;)

[mongo75]

WOW- great invention thingee- I'd be wouldn't be surprised if the oil companies hired a hitman to take that guy out and burn his lab down.

[the1much]

shhhhh

[Kaptin-Jer]

Actually there has been a LEEDS type of certification in the Marine industry for a while. Mostly in the engine building area, but it ie not as extensive. Among other things, I am doing GSA work that is all LEEDS we are a certified company. I keep a low profile when it comes to that stuff and the marine industry. The EPA has put many good people out of work, and I am very hypocritical when it comes to my work on my boat.

[the1much]

i have to take a safety class every month even to be allowed in the oilfields,,,none of it is about "environment" safety :(

[masalai]

anything on operational/operator safety? - my granny would say (when I was a lot younger) "Get a haircut" :D:P

[simon]

Wouldn't it be nice not having the threads diluted by nonesense, It would make this forum more helpful. The persons who start the treads would like to have some questions answered. Let's go back to the subject.

There is a site in french about a project of building a proa with ecological considerations.

http://www.ecoprao.ch/home.php

Simon

[the1much]

heh bye ;)

[masalai]

simon, Me & many others seem to have short attention spans for subject matter that is "off the wall" and attracts similar comment... What you do and how you prepare may set your boat up to be benign, but not the manufacture... Read the wisdom with an open mind and you will get the point too... There are lots of serious threads on sail, engine, hull, alternate power efficiencies and alternatives.... Materials - use the best available, always.... & don't compromise for "benign environmental impact" EVER

[Kaptin-Jer]

Between the 'nonsense' there are great, check that, good words of wisdom. I started 5 years ago in these forums and what I learned got me through 2 major rebuilds. Yes, we do go off thread from time to time, but we have to have some fun, meet new friends, and maybe even learn something we weren't expecting to learn. We always come back to thread - eventually.

[kengrome]

Hi, are there any eco-friendly materials out there to construct hulls from?

How about bamboo? It is very strong and takes very little time to grow.

[the1much]

where has the world gone,,,,to satisfy our "recreational" enjoyment,,,,we take the food right out of the mouths of baby pandas,,,,,,its a sad,,sad day ;)

[simon]

Well guys, I also think that this forum is great and gives valuable and sometimes surprising answers. And not everything has to be dead serious.

I believe that this thread is interesting and deserves some attention on the technical side. It is not about tree-hugging, but maybe about finding some practical solutions.

So what about substitutes for oil-based resins?

http://www.bc.bangor.ac.uk/news-and-resources/news/documents/Replantpressrelease.pdf

They researching on producing thermosetting resins based on vegetable oil.

[the1much]

not only cant he,,,,,,,never mind,,,as them arkansas farmers tell their cows,,,"gettonupouttahere"
and simple simon,,,,there researching how ants doink too,,,give us solutions,,,dont waste this threads time on ideas,,,,i got an idea ta use inmates as floating islands,,,,jus make em keep kicking with a stun gun,,,see,,,since ya wanna be serious,,,ideas are like blowholes,,,everyone has em,,,and they ALL stink,,
so come on with a solution????

[simon]

Let's see:

- we have wood as core in strip planking and using vegetable oil based resin to glue together and cover it with basalt or hemp fiber cloth and the same resin. Use Plywood glued with the mentionned resin for flat panel applications.

- Use Polyethylene made of alcohol to produce honeycomp that will be the core and reinforce it with basalt Polyethylene laminate on both sides.

Paints also based on vegetable oil.

Any other suggestions?

[the1much]

wood is only HALF green,,,cause ya need to make sure it was harvested from a tree farm not a forest,,the "vegie" resin is an idea,,,,no science,,so thats an,"idea",,,
Polymer materials are used in many ways as barrier material for instance the simple
polyethylene bag for food storage or little more advanced multi layer plastic ketchup
bottles. Hydrogen bonded polymers are good barriers against permanent gases,
especially poly(vinyl alcohol) and the co polymer poly(ethylene-co-vinyl alcohol) are
very good barriers against oxygen. The protection against oxygen is crucial if the food
is sensitive to oxidation. However, when in contact with water, both vapor and liquid,
the barrier properties of hydrogen bonded polymers can decrease rapidly. In food
packaging the barrier material is often against oxygen, this is a problem, as food
usually contains water that will migrate into the plastic and thereby plasticize the
polymer this increases the permeability of oxygen. When developing a new material
that is exposed to stuff that humans eventually will eat or inject, extensive test must
be conducted. In plastics, there can be many chemicals from different steps of the
manufacture<<<<<does that sound like a boat glue? against water? and does it sound like a "green" substitute?
i aint very smart so i need this stuff explained like ya would a 10 year old ;)
and ya paints,,,if ya use a "green" paint made from veggies,,,how much do ya use?,,how often do you need to use it?,,after adding in cunsumption,,,and the veggies themselves,,,,how long till that "green" way use more fuel to produce,,,,oh ya,,,produced,,,,,,how are these things produced?,,,what fuel "makes" this "green" IDEAS?

[simon]

So how comes that waste holding tanks are made of polyethylene?

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=6479

How comes kayaks are made of polyethylene?

http://www.phseakayaks.com/resources_why-polyethylene.html

How comes that some hobie-cats are made of polyethylene?

http://www.hobie-cat.net/site_gb/?produits,produits

Maybe they are using a different polyethylene?

[the1much]

ummmmmm,,,,,i didnt say those things are'nt,,,or why,,,,why are they made from that stuff??,,dont know ask the people that make em,,,,and well dont argue with me as to why,,,,argue with them "researchers of yours,,,like i said,,,,im very simple minded,,,,all them big werdy's aint from me ;)
ask the smart people,,,
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6767961-claims.html
and if your trying to say them things dont absorb or leach liquids,,,then,,well,,,i guess we can blame your teachers,,,,cause even idiots like me know even todays resins are not completely "water tight",,,,,,cut a piece of ya boat and look at it under a microscope

[simon]

As a famous book tells, the world has not been created in one day. Why are you after a already finish, 100% bombproof, thousand year tested, ideal solution?

I pointing out that there are approaches that might be tested, improved, refused or accepted. But without trying there is no progress. As there is almost no vapor-tight material, why should then a new solution be.

So any other suggestions for eco-friendly materials?
Any comments on my proposals?

Another approach would to create a completely recyclable boat. That would mean that the various materials must easily separable and recyclable. Again thermoplastics could be an interesting approach.

Btw, my boat is made of aluminium, I do not know if aluminium absorbs water, but a slice of my boat will show bloody water in the bilge. And I know where it comes from. The rudder-post-gland and a drilled "water-proof" bulkhead.

[masalai]

No NO No No No Yes, to misquote from "Vicar of Dibbley" again, - - That was Shakespeare or someone "Rome was not built in a day" - Still "the famous book" ---- I feel that most approaches have been looked at and tried :D or failed :P ---- As for previous sentence, ---- Difficult to separate the components in many cases. ---- That material requires more electricity to make so does not start off well so recycling may be a consideration

[the1much]

Wouldn't it be nice not having the threads diluted by nonesense, It would make this forum more helpful. The persons who start the treads would like to have some questions answered. Let's go back to the subject.

There is a site in french about a project of building a proa with ecological considerations.

http://www.ecoprao.ch/home.php

Simon

ummm,,,that is why i dont wanna hear your,,,,umm,,,ya,,,,dont waste the time of this thread on a bunch of "hillbilly" maybe ca-ca,,,,,,,,,doesnt feel nice to be told that does it?,,,,but Mas. says im not nice anyways
see before that post,,this thread WAS actually going somewhere,,we were all talking it out,,( man i would love to sit and hear how you hold a conversation with people,,,is it hard keeping them on subject whithout someone saying,,,,"hey,,,that reminds me,,,this 1 time,,"),,,,so since jeff wont give us an "iggy" button,,heh,,,well i guess ya gonna have to put up with my ranting off thread,,,,
and yes even your alum. seeps,,,,in fact for metals alum. is VERY porous,,,,and if your boat stays in the water,,i bet 30% of that water in ya bilge is there in the morning before ya even start your engines,,,but thats for another thread.
For everyone else,,,lets get back to the conversation hehe ;)

[Kaptin-Jer]

Simon,
You hide where you are from, but you have to get real. Where I am try telling these 1,000's of sport fishermen, 60' gofast, 30' twin outboard, 75' luxury cruiser crowd that they will have to go green. Sailboats are a hard enough sell down here. You will have to change the whole boating industry that is in enough trouble. For the past 3,000 years just about every material know has been used to build boats. Straw, bamboo, leather, tree bark, resins from tree sap, wood, aluminum, steel, polymers, fiberglass, ALL are recyclable. I know! My fiberglass 38' Beneteau was bought for scrap. If you look at some of the other threads you will see progress pictures of West Wind. Steel freighters are being cut apart in Malaysia and the steel and parts are being recycled (at an eco price). We should continue to evolve the materials, Stronger, lighter, cheaper, but don't think you are reinventing anything. It has all been done. Now we evolve what we know

[the1much]

well said ;)

[Kaptin-Jer]

Hay Jim.. We need to set up a new Forum. "Drop by and shoot the Bull"
What do you thinK?

[the1much]

yupz,,,that way i can stay outta trouble ;)

[the1much]

have ya heard that last year 1/3 of bees in the u.s. died,,,then already this year more then that have died,,,,,that wood boat dont look so easy to make in 20 years

[simon]

Bigalogigalo,

are you happy with the answers? What do you expect from this thread?

[Kaptin-Jer]

Simon,
Are you happy with the answers? What do you expect from this thread?

[masalai]

Kaptin-Jer & the1, Grumpy was created just so there is a "safe place" to shoot the breeze with invectiv and opinionated ideas - go for it:D:D:D

Then dumbasses like me don't have to do too many searches to find entertainment . either "drivel...", "Gamages", "Grumpy...", or piracy :D:D:D

[the1much]

is it not sad,,,that hydrogen,,being the MOST abundant gas,,,takes so much energy to get into a cell,,,but,,,if you made a fuel cell large enough( man popcorn butter and typing dont mix),,,,but,,,large enough to make enough to produce the electricity to get more hydrogen,,,enough to keep the fuel cells "charged",,,,then wouldnt it be like,,,a fuel cell facility,,,,run on fuel cells?
and why cant we do something with helium,,,,texas has more of that stuff then ANYWHERE in the world,,,hehehe,,,you guys would talk as funny as ya look hehe;)

[masalai]

Is helium that gas that makes your voice sound funny - sort of like daffy duck? - I'll have some of that :D:D:D:D:D

[the1much]

can you imagine the kids going around "sucking" on mufflers hehe ;)

[rizorman]

Does anyone know of aluminum composites that mix with recycled plastics? Check out this article... I'm coming late to the thread, but I was very interested in the topic. Most boats are built with whatever material is abundant in close proximity. I don't think that has changed much in the past few hundred years. What has changed is that now there is abundant plastic waste all over the world. I would like to have strong, light, stable, green, affordable and beautiful material for my project, is that so much to ask for? I live on the west coast (where deforestation is a real problem and driftwood... what is that???).

[rizorman]

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/34052/113/:)

[the1much]

them really are'nt eco-friendly are they?,,even though its recycled plastic,,,what does it take to make it so we could use it?,,what chemicals,,what machinery,,what waste is produced,and what do we put back into the environment to process it all?,,and what i think is the ONLY way to ACTUALLY be eco-friendly,,,is to make a boat outta things we can say is o.k. for the fishies if our boat sinks,,and if made without putting waste in place of what we took in the first place,,,,,thinking the only REAL eco friendly is,,,,,,swim,,,,hehe ;)

[rizorman]

I understand the wood argument, and I love the look of course... To maintain a wood boat also involves using chemicals that are not so fish friendly. Aluminum & AL composites require little maintenance and over the long run might be a lighter pollutant / carbon footprint. The big boys of the boat manufacturing industry will most likely not return to wood as a viable hull material and that is who I'd like to influence. If the hull is stable and does not degrade, it would have more longevity and have a higher salvage value. I don't know if Al wrecks would be as big of an issue as you think, besides have seen how much plastic is discarded into the ocean as trash? If something has higher value, it's not thrown away so casually...

[rizorman]

I wanted to throw out the idea that combining materials seems to be a viable option as well. Wood for the framing and above the waterline with an aluminum composite below and at the bow might be an interesting combination. And by the way, I can't swim as far as I want to go...

[the1much]

pitch and tar aren't fish friendly?

[the1much]

and trust me rizor,,,,my comments are jus fer the "other side" sake of conversation.,,,if you would of said we should only use wood,,,,i would of said something like " how bout a plastic and aluminum composite" ,,hehe ;)

[the1much]

and,,,fer convo.,,,if you came up with a coolz idea using plastic and aluminum for boat building,,,wouldnt it "run over" to other industrial uses,,and more uses,,and more,,,,then that foot print wouldnt be so small any more. and really man,,,,this is fer convo sake,,,dont freak on me and think im jus an @ss,,hehe,,well i am,,but,,,anyways,,,,,,"i cant swim as far as i want to go...",,,thats why i advocate the use of arm floaties,,hehe ;)

[TripleCrownNC]

Watch out Jim, going to start painting again soon so get your rest while you can. :-) Nothen eco friendly about Awlgrip.

[Fanie]

In my opinion most materials - take fiberglass or epoxy - is as eco friendly as it can be once cured and out of the boat yard or place where-it-was-built. Even if such a boat sink there is never any substance released that would harm the environment. In fact, many creatures would move into such a wreck and live there happily ever after untill eaten by something else that will live there happily ever after untill another something will eat it up and then live there happily ever after untill...

So, if I was you I'd rather worry about the highly poisonous gasses excreted from you automobile and start either sailing and walking -

- or stop worrying about it.

[the1much]

i cant walk,,,,,creates more highly poisonous gasses excreted from me then 3 cars hehe ;)

[the1much]

finally,,,,a good reason to be reaching at their bra's,,,,i was jus charging my phone ma'm,,,hehe,,now,,if we could just build a boat out of these bra's,,hehe,,,,
TOKYO (Reuters) - Ladies, take your battle for the environment a little closer to your heart with a solar-powered bra that can generate enough electric energy to charge a mobile phone or an iPod.

Lingerie maker Triumph International Japan Ltd unveiled its environmentally friendly, and green colored, "Solar Power Bra" on Wednesday in Tokyo which features a solar panel worn around the stomach.

The panel requires light to generate electricity and the concept bra will not be in stores anytime soon, said Triumph spokeswoman Yoshiko Masuda, as "people usually can not go outside without wearing clothes over it."

But it does send the message of how lingerie could possibly save the planet, Masuda said, adding that the bra should not be washed or sunned on a rainy day to avoid damaging it.

Being eco-friendly is now fashionable in Japan, and the "Solar Energy Bra" follows the company's other green-themed undergarments that include a bra that turns into a reusable shopping bag and one that featured metal chopsticks to promote the use of reusable chopsticks.

"It is very comfortable and I can really feel involved in eco-friendly efforts as well," model Yuko Ishida said.

[Fanie]

Hi Jim, Apple has now made a device that plays music from woman's breast implants.

The I-tit was introduced due to the fact that too many woman complained that men just stare at their breasts and never listens to them ;)

[masalai]

Give me a real tit and not a twittering tit