Structure for a small Boat Building business

[dick stave]

I would be interested to hear the advise and experience of those involved in building and selling boats. Notwithstanding building to the governing standards, the inherent liability and protections one needs to run a small shop.

[Ike]

Take a look at my web site. New Boat Builders Home Page http://newboatbuilders.com. It will answer a lot of your questions. Although it was written primarily for US builders much of it is the same in Canada. The Canadian standards are derived from the ABYC standards and much of the business models are the same.

[safewalrus]

Dick you could do a lot worse than listen to Ike, the guy really knows his onions!! he's pretty good, especially as he's a Septic (now that's rare as rocking horse poo! mind you there is a few others, funny how mosty of the decent ones use this site, and small boats!!)

[Ike]

a Septic? Huh. Explain please. Am I being insulted of complimented? or did you mean Skeptic?

[dick stave]

Thanks very much Ike. Your site is very informative. I just picked up the new WoodenBoat and read the article profiling Dick Pulsifer and other small builders. I would be interested to know whether these fellows operate as proprietors or as corporate entities. I imagine in this day and age Tn Simmons would have been forced to retain attorneys and operate a numbered corporation. What happened to the good old days?

[Ike]

The good old days no longer exist. Today you have to protect yourself while still trying to run a profitable business and make a good product.

Anyway I suggest you look him up on the web and ask him. http://www.pulsiferhampton.com/

[tinhorn]

Take a look at my web site. New Boat Builders Home Page http://newboatbuilders.com. It will answer a lot of your questions. Although it was written primarily for US builders much of it is the same in Canada. The Canadian standards are derived from the ABYC standards and much of the business models are the same.

Am I reading the site right? There are 4000 boatbuilders?!

Terrific resource. It kinda tempts me to order a drum of vinyl ester and some 'glass and get back into light manufacturing. If my sweetie raises her eyebrows, I'll just blame you.

[Ike]

Actually probably more. and that is just the US. There are about 700 in Canada as well. It goes up and down with the economy. Boat building is the last bastion of free enterprise. You don't need a degree, a license (unless you sell retail) or any qualifications. Anyone can hang out a sign and say I'm a boat builder.

Most of the boat builders are little guys making a few boats a year. There are thosands of Mom and Pop companies building everyhting from canoes and dinghys, to some pretty sophisticated boats.

Ever heard of the 20/80 rule. 20% of the boatbuilders are volume manufacturers that make 80% of the boats. 80% of the builders only make 20% of the boats.

One of my many jobs at CG HQ was to keep track of boat manufacturers. There is a copy of the database on-line at http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/mic_database.htm

The database includes the US and Canada. When things are normal aboot 400 mfgs go into business each year. But about 400 go out of business too. So the level stays about the same. However when the economy tanks, like now, a lot more go out of business. Back in 90 when we were going into a short recession, 900 mfgs went out of business, and they weren't all little guys. At the time US Marine had 23 plants. By 1991 they were down to 13. The boatbuilding biz is very sensitive to the economy. A couple of days ago Sea Ray announced it was laying off over 300 employees and moving their plant that is in Florida. I have a page for boat building news at http://newboatbuilders.com/pages/news_daily.html.

So go buy that vinyl ester and have at it.

[safewalrus]

a Septic? Huh. Explain please. Am I being insulted of complimented? or did you mean Skeptic?

Hell Ike it's been belaboured (belabored) enough on this forum before so a quicky - for Septic read "Septic Tank" rhyming (?) slang for "Yank"


Insulting - depends on your outlook, but hell I'm a "Honky Limey" so call it how you like, your still a Septic, but a nice one!!:rolleyes:

[Ike]

Is that a left handed way of saying we're full of sh**? LOL

Geez I'll have to stop going to Vancouver.

Thanks for the explanation.

[safewalrus]

As you wish Ike. Me I'm just using the rhymin slang ('cause it would be better if'n I could spell it but beggers can't be choosers!)

[fleetwing]

Hell Ike it's been belaboured (belabored) enough on this forum before so a quicky - for Septic read "Septic Tank" rhyming (?) slang for "Yank"


Insulting - depends on your outlook, but hell I'm a "Honky Limey" so call it how you like, your still a Septic, but a nice one!!:rolleyes:

in reality, a septic tank means a *uckin yank , or the colony, meaning Americans, were more worried about where the **** goes not where it is From,

grew up around British navy, and Aussies, ...

i noticed thant when they talk like that they are just Winging pommies.....
crying all the time about American Innovations

[lazeyjack]

I would be interested to hear the advise and experience of those involved in building and selling boats. Notwithstanding building to the governing standards, the inherent liability and protections one needs to run a small shop.

I started on my own in 1985 when the company was formed
To get a foot in I had to build a spec boat first, just to show what i could do, that was tough
I then took a couple of small boats to a boat show
From there I got orders which gave 15 years of continous work
I stayed small 10 men max and had long term employees
I gave them a bonus when things were good, and bought them things like vhf at Christmas
I never got rich but made lifelong friends Boats are like that
I dont think I could have made it if I had'nt built on my own property Rents are killers
Building in Alloy it cost abt 100,00o to set up, with machines from grunter migs to lathes, saw, drill presses, bandsaw, large and small and on and on
But hey it is a wonderful way to earn a quid
before you sell a boat you must sell youirself, and my method was to listen and give the client what he wanted and tell him where he was out of whack
But the most important thing in boatbuilding , is honesty
You must guarantee your product and this can mean 5 years on hulls
Go get it!!

[safewalrus]

fleetwing the septics ain't invented anything yet - normally something is invented elsewhere, the septic says wow we gotta have that, 'say buddy bring your invention over here we'll pay you more than anyone else, and yeah you too CAN BE an Americun!!' People do thinking they are onto a good thing, generally they are - short term - but suddenly find their invention has become American and they are stuck in the system. To be fir most accept this and settle into a medioca life in the backwoods never to be heard from again! OK until you realise your a nonentity! But 5h1t ain't we all after we've had our fifteen minutes of fame?

[Ike]

15 min? geez that's more Than I got!

[safewalrus]

Could have been five minutes, we didn't invent the clock and the hourglass ain't all that accurate (ain't since we started using sea sand! the salt tends to stick it abit)!!!!!!!;)

[Ike]

Since it's diss the yanks time, here's one for you folks north of the border.

It's called spot the Canadian.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b66/spinners1/Peter/canadian.jpg

[safewalrus]

Could also be "spot the fake tan" (but theres about five of them, straigh out of the bottle! thank God for the honesty of the Canadian(?) Obviously a nice girl, wonder what she's doing with that lot?

[Ike]

From the look of it, it's a bikini contest. They have a lot of those down Florida way. I've been to a few. Mostly it's just an occasion for guys to get drunk, look at almost naked women, and act like fools.

Actually those may not be fake tans Some women spend hours on the beach down in Miami Beach and Fort Lauderdale. Not for me. In 15 minutes I burn like a lobster. Plus that, you do that all you life your skin turns to leather. I think I prefer the untanned too. I'm from the Pacific Northwest. Not many tanned bodies around here. I just thought it was a funny photo. Who knows? Maybe she won?

[tinhorn]

Perhaps we need more bikini contests in the Pacific Northwest, with extra points for porcelain skintone. Of course, on the west side, it would have to be held during summer. Y'know, August 15-25.

(The picture is hilarious.)

[Ike]

You mean our two weeks of summer?

[safewalrus]

What both of them!?!

[masalai]

But no tits or nipples on display? don't the girls have those - then must be transvestites who could not afford the "nipple job" too...

[safewalrus]

Tits and nipples on their backs? I think a little bit of homework on the female form might be in order Missy Lee!

[masalai]

You misconstruing fool?? (misquote from "It aint half hot mum" - - the idjit photographer must have a thing about asses & shot from the wrong side...

[safewalrus]

Yeah, got em inside out!!

[Brent Swain]

I have simply been selling my expertise by the hour to builders who are not sure how to go about it. They provide the building site, materials ,tools, an hourly wage , accomodation , meals and expenses, and work with me . I usually get the hull decks , cabin, keel and cockpit , and wheelhouse tacked together in a couple of weeks and leave them to it. Sometimes I drop by for a few days to help them finish the details.
It has worked well for the last 28 years.
Brent

[safewalrus]

Now that Brent sounds like a bloody good idea!! theres a lot of amature (?)builders out there who would appreciate that sort of help (including me!!)

[Ike]

Hey Brent? How the hell are you? You getting tired of the rain? I could sure use some sun, or at least no rain. I've been trying for weeks to cut out the parts for a stitch and glue boat (out of that other material). I don't have a covered place to do it. Oh well, Northwest normal.