clodgo
02-27-2008, 03:59 PM
First off, what is wrong with round dead lights? Second, I've heard that unless your boat is of a certain length it is not proper to have more than one window on each side. This sounds silly to me.:rolleyes:
View Full Version : Dead light snobery?
safewalrus
02-27-2008, 05:19 PM
Sounds bullocks to me too mate!
clodgo
02-27-2008, 07:42 PM
Thanks, I think round deadlights make sense, water pours off them easily and they look cool. The more light and visibility from inside the cabin the better.
westlawn5554X
02-27-2008, 10:19 PM
mmm... interesting...
charmc
02-28-2008, 12:06 AM
First off, what is wrong with round dead lights? Second, I've heard that unless your boat is of a certain length it is not proper to have more than one window on each side. This sounds silly to me.:rolleyes:
Change in production boats away from round is mostly market/styling driven. Make the cabin more like a living room in a house, sell more boats to people who don't know anything about the sea. There are guidelines for design, but in the case of ports/deadlights, they are just that: guidelines.
Change in production boats away from round is mostly market/styling driven. Make the cabin more like a living room in a house, sell more boats to people who don't know anything about the sea. There are guidelines for design, but in the case of ports/deadlights, they are just that: guidelines.
PAR
02-28-2008, 12:49 AM
Round lights and opening ports were developed as a direct result of needing a light or port, that was equally strong around it's perimeter. Having a hole, filled with glass, let alone opening glass, certainly weakens the area. Heavy cast bronze pieces were the answer, but square corners (ask the British about it on their first commercial jet liner) will cause stress risers and propagate cracks in both the substrate and the light/port frame. Heavily radiused corners much less so and round none. So round it was, not to mention the ease of mounting something round as opposed to a rectangle, which requires orientation with several other elements (eye brows, deck line, trim pieces, etc.)
Visually, there have been some general guides practiced by designers (and taught), concerning port number, but it's a "feels good - looks good" sort of thing, with nothing written in stone. Along these same guidelines, you'll have roof camber radiuses, roof line profiles in relation to the sheer and bow, coming heights in relation to cabin side, rail cap in relation to bulwark and it's properly scaled crown. The list of these is endless and each have been breached many times, though more often then not, good designers intentionally or unintentionally come close to these "proportion guides" with the development of a design. Amateur designers usually break these traditional proportion guides (typically unknowingly), which to the trained eye stick out like a sore thumb, but to other novices look just fine.
Times have changes substantially in recent decades, with designers drawing up craft that they can get past a marketing team, even though they don't enjoy the proportions. A fair test of this is found when a designer draws up a yacht for themselves, which usually turns out to be the next classic, timeless bit of craftsmanship. The marketing folks would have the boat a foot wider, the freeboard taller, the cabin more rakish and a double cup holder next to the tissue dispenser in the head, but the designer knew the client and authored up a much better performing and looking vessel, without the restraints and burden placed on them buy the "house experts". There are many examples of this type of yacht and the 26' Chuck Paine "Frances" comes to mind. Simple, elegant, weatherly, fast and capable. Marketable, well not to average production boat standards, though Tom Morris made a fine job of it.
Visually, there have been some general guides practiced by designers (and taught), concerning port number, but it's a "feels good - looks good" sort of thing, with nothing written in stone. Along these same guidelines, you'll have roof camber radiuses, roof line profiles in relation to the sheer and bow, coming heights in relation to cabin side, rail cap in relation to bulwark and it's properly scaled crown. The list of these is endless and each have been breached many times, though more often then not, good designers intentionally or unintentionally come close to these "proportion guides" with the development of a design. Amateur designers usually break these traditional proportion guides (typically unknowingly), which to the trained eye stick out like a sore thumb, but to other novices look just fine.
Times have changes substantially in recent decades, with designers drawing up craft that they can get past a marketing team, even though they don't enjoy the proportions. A fair test of this is found when a designer draws up a yacht for themselves, which usually turns out to be the next classic, timeless bit of craftsmanship. The marketing folks would have the boat a foot wider, the freeboard taller, the cabin more rakish and a double cup holder next to the tissue dispenser in the head, but the designer knew the client and authored up a much better performing and looking vessel, without the restraints and burden placed on them buy the "house experts". There are many examples of this type of yacht and the 26' Chuck Paine "Frances" comes to mind. Simple, elegant, weatherly, fast and capable. Marketable, well not to average production boat standards, though Tom Morris made a fine job of it.
SouthernCross
02-28-2008, 02:50 AM
Amateur designers usually break these traditional proportion guides (typically unknowingly), which to the trained eye stick out like a sore thumb, but to other novices look just fine.
^ That's snobbery right there.
^ That's snobbery right there.
Landlubber
02-28-2008, 03:18 AM
Might be snobbery, but it is true!
clodgo
02-28-2008, 12:01 PM
I like what PAR says "Round lights and opening ports were developed as a direct result of needing a light or port, that was equally strong around it's perimeter."
It makes allot of sense structurally but it does look intentionally "retro" on a modern boat. A friend of mine hates them for that reason alone. He can be a little snobby sometimes which make me want to use round lights even more;]
It makes allot of sense structurally but it does look intentionally "retro" on a modern boat. A friend of mine hates them for that reason alone. He can be a little snobby sometimes which make me want to use round lights even more;]
PAR
02-28-2008, 03:11 PM
It's not "snobbery", but blatant arrogance frankly. I've never met a single person, who was particularly well skilled at their chosen profession, that didn't exhibit some arrogance in this regard. Some are more mild mannered or soft spoken, but everyone displayed a level of understanding, that was substantially above average knowledge on the subject and who's work clearly demonstrated this superiority. And they know it.
Examples would include; complementary stive; properly shaped boot stripes (top and bottom and why it necessary); the buttocks in a short overhang double ender (an easy way to make a pretty stern sail like crap); the flat spot or hollow in the bow sections of a deck crown, that always seems to appear if you don't know what you're doing; ditto the sheer sweep in the same location; again along the sheer, the percentage of lowest freeboard and it's location along the sheer's length, shapes employed in bulwarks, "waist" or cove lines; why a wise designer "flatens" out the curve in deck and roof crown, near the deck edge or cabin sides. I could go on and on. Structure is a whole different set of issues, with similar problems facing the novice designer.
I blame a lot of this on free or low cost software, that seems to be the rage currently. The software will not correct or properly proportion deck structures, nor offer suggestions to their scantlings. For that matter, it will not remind you that the currently drawn hull, if pushed past a S/L of 3, will require a specific percentage of the bottom planking be increased in thickness. Nor will it explain why you need to place your stringers along the route the diagonals take in the lines drawing, for best use of materials, ease on the builder and a natural increase in loading capacity in the ends of the yacht. Understanding why you need these things is what a true designer is about.
Examples would include; complementary stive; properly shaped boot stripes (top and bottom and why it necessary); the buttocks in a short overhang double ender (an easy way to make a pretty stern sail like crap); the flat spot or hollow in the bow sections of a deck crown, that always seems to appear if you don't know what you're doing; ditto the sheer sweep in the same location; again along the sheer, the percentage of lowest freeboard and it's location along the sheer's length, shapes employed in bulwarks, "waist" or cove lines; why a wise designer "flatens" out the curve in deck and roof crown, near the deck edge or cabin sides. I could go on and on. Structure is a whole different set of issues, with similar problems facing the novice designer.
I blame a lot of this on free or low cost software, that seems to be the rage currently. The software will not correct or properly proportion deck structures, nor offer suggestions to their scantlings. For that matter, it will not remind you that the currently drawn hull, if pushed past a S/L of 3, will require a specific percentage of the bottom planking be increased in thickness. Nor will it explain why you need to place your stringers along the route the diagonals take in the lines drawing, for best use of materials, ease on the builder and a natural increase in loading capacity in the ends of the yacht. Understanding why you need these things is what a true designer is about.
SouthernCross
02-28-2008, 11:22 PM
^ OMG.
I could go on and on.
I can tell. :rolleyes:
Beauty's in the eye of the beholder. Thas all you need to know.
I could go on and on.
I can tell. :rolleyes:
Beauty's in the eye of the beholder. Thas all you need to know.
Landlubber
02-28-2008, 11:36 PM
PAR,
"complementary stive"
What is this mate, I must be ignorant, I have no idea nor could find it in Google? Ta.
"complementary stive"
What is this mate, I must be ignorant, I have no idea nor could find it in Google? Ta.
charmc
02-29-2008, 12:54 AM
"complementary stive"
I think stive refers to the angle of a bowsprit. Not a term you hear commonly, fer sure. :) Not something I'd ever think about, but it could enhance or detract from otherwise good lines.
I think stive refers to the angle of a bowsprit. Not a term you hear commonly, fer sure. :) Not something I'd ever think about, but it could enhance or detract from otherwise good lines.
Landlubber
02-29-2008, 01:09 AM
emmmm, Ta charmc,
Must be an American term. I have not seen it Down Under.
Fully understand that it could look awful if not set right, same as the dolphin striker, often see them set wrong.
Must be an American term. I have not seen it Down Under.
Fully understand that it could look awful if not set right, same as the dolphin striker, often see them set wrong.
PAR
02-29-2008, 02:26 AM
Stive is a term used in describing the relationship in booms, sprits, and other near horizontal lines, when compared to horizontal.
An example that Charlie suggested, is the pretension of a bobstay counteracting the forestay's pull, so the sprit doesn't hog objectionably. In the USA the sprit "stives" with the sheer, but elsewhere it may show considerable sag, to the point of paralleling the LWL in the British Isles. Understanding how much to use for a typical hull form, style or pre-load will not be found in a software package. Another example of this understanding thing is how much for a given hull form, like one with a full bow and generous sweep in the sheer (like a Friendship sloop) compared to the much flatter sheer and finer bow of a classic yacht hull form. The same "rules" apply to booms and these are generally learned or acquired through study.
Another common "dead give-away" is how the sides of a trunk cabin are treated. A person not familiar with building compound shapes will draw straight sides and same inclination cabin walls. This looks fine on paper or screen, but in 3D has a tendency to "swell" outboard at the ends, which is why an experienced or studied designer will make the cabin sides roll into a slightly tighter radius toward the ends of the cabin or other deck structures.
The reason we make compound curves in a deck or roof crown is it's easier to plank. A common curve or segment of a circle once again, may look fine on the screen, but when the material is being applied, you'll wish the curve flattened out slightly along the edges (particularly if there is a covering board), to make the application go smoother. The best designers have built their own efforts or worked in the industry long enough to understand these unwritten rules, possibly developing a few of their own.
An example that Charlie suggested, is the pretension of a bobstay counteracting the forestay's pull, so the sprit doesn't hog objectionably. In the USA the sprit "stives" with the sheer, but elsewhere it may show considerable sag, to the point of paralleling the LWL in the British Isles. Understanding how much to use for a typical hull form, style or pre-load will not be found in a software package. Another example of this understanding thing is how much for a given hull form, like one with a full bow and generous sweep in the sheer (like a Friendship sloop) compared to the much flatter sheer and finer bow of a classic yacht hull form. The same "rules" apply to booms and these are generally learned or acquired through study.
Another common "dead give-away" is how the sides of a trunk cabin are treated. A person not familiar with building compound shapes will draw straight sides and same inclination cabin walls. This looks fine on paper or screen, but in 3D has a tendency to "swell" outboard at the ends, which is why an experienced or studied designer will make the cabin sides roll into a slightly tighter radius toward the ends of the cabin or other deck structures.
The reason we make compound curves in a deck or roof crown is it's easier to plank. A common curve or segment of a circle once again, may look fine on the screen, but when the material is being applied, you'll wish the curve flattened out slightly along the edges (particularly if there is a covering board), to make the application go smoother. The best designers have built their own efforts or worked in the industry long enough to understand these unwritten rules, possibly developing a few of their own.
Landlubber
02-29-2008, 06:02 AM
PAR,
As a boatbuilder, I can only agree, essentially the best designers are on hands persons, it is when they try "new "things that we can tell the experienced designers from the newbys.
Many a design has been created that cannot be built, we have to adjust the build to suit the condition, not the design.
Sheer, one of the most important and least understood features of any craft.
As a boatbuilder, I can only agree, essentially the best designers are on hands persons, it is when they try "new "things that we can tell the experienced designers from the newbys.
Many a design has been created that cannot be built, we have to adjust the build to suit the condition, not the design.
Sheer, one of the most important and least understood features of any craft.
safewalrus
02-29-2008, 06:15 PM
the word 'stive' is often heard over this side of the pond PAR but tends to get pronounced 'steeve', don't know if that helps anyone?
Interesting to note the first 'openings' in ships sides were actually 'gun ports' and they were most definately square (or rectangular) even in the Americas!!
Also who amongst the 'designers' has actually cleaned or maintained anything onboard? the normal person you seen to design for is the 'standard Board of trade man' some three (3) feet tall with seventeen (17) feet long arms in order to get into these nooks and crannies [to be fair yacht designers DO tend to be a little better than pure ship designers as they quite often actually do use their designs- when they can get out of the design office long enough!!]
Interesting to note the first 'openings' in ships sides were actually 'gun ports' and they were most definately square (or rectangular) even in the Americas!!
Also who amongst the 'designers' has actually cleaned or maintained anything onboard? the normal person you seen to design for is the 'standard Board of trade man' some three (3) feet tall with seventeen (17) feet long arms in order to get into these nooks and crannies [to be fair yacht designers DO tend to be a little better than pure ship designers as they quite often actually do use their designs- when they can get out of the design office long enough!!]
clodgo
03-01-2008, 02:37 PM
It would very convenient to be th be 3' tall but in my case 7' long arms might be more appropriate. Hmm, gun ports, I hadn't thought of that one yet...
safewalrus
03-01-2008, 06:01 PM
Trouble is a cannon takes up so much room inside the boat!!
Sean Herron
03-01-2008, 06:12 PM
Hello...
I am of the English colonies and was born into the English model - historic - a wife even - (damn it all to hell) - she looks like Lynda Carter - so I put up with the MEN AH PAUSE - BRITISH economic philosophy - BRITISH class structure - but I don't hang plates on my walls...:)
THANK GOD THE FRENCH LOST THE BLOODY WAR - except for Quebec - vive your ass...
I hate their food and I don't wear wigs...
Hell - the French lost a lot of wars and financed America so they would have a 'fall guy' for the history books...
What is a deadlight - I am a poor Canadian looking for directions to the libuary...:)
Can you help me please...
F'in round portals - is that what the Froggies call them - snob would b two bees - but I am awash just now - I mite be rong...:)
Here is my opinion - AHEM - do whatever the F'ck you want - don't second guess those **** ass - mother F'cker designer Wankers - who got thru school on a 65 percentile - on daddies money - bunch of pukes - THIS IS YOUR LIFE MAN...
Do what is good for you...
Deadlights or 'round portals' are BRITISH - they found their way onto yachts from NAVY salvage - they did not evolve - they are the product of brilliant economy - as so many BRITISH things are - bronze sewer piping...
But then I might just be full of ****...:p
See - this is where things get weird and semantic - potato versus vernacular - AHAH - another good boat name - usually the biggest guy wins here - a deadlight to me is glass block set into the decking - or glass block set into sidewalks to light the service or machinery areas below - or in the case of say Seattle and San Fransisco - after the fires - the old bars and canteens...
Aside from all that crap - you have to understand that style evolves around available material technology and more importantly around tooling and economics - at least during the very early parts of the European industrial 'revolution' - I prefer evolution - A worker has a hole saw on a brace drill - some bronze sewer pipe - a braze torch - a lap driven lathe - and some blown glass - oh - and a brain...
A lot could go wrong here - but the British tend to not record their mistakes - only their victories...:)
Today - style seems to evolve around any fat ass that can sell his ******** to the salivating public lottery winners - while walking across the floor with his hands in his pockets - who can hire a mouse jockey to back him up...:)
Today - STYLE OR DESIGN - mean about as much as a particularily stinky fart - it used to Raymond Loewy - the APSCO pencil sharpener - it used to be the Bauhuas - evicted by Hitler to America - it used to Ludwig Meiss Van De Rohe and so many others...
A good read is OBJECTS OF DESIRE...
As for those 'designer Wankers' - Buck Fuller was a drunk till he was 40 - then he just stopped - imagine that...
Hell - I just walked away from an out of print book worth over 200 bucks - selling at 60 - that had lines for Laurent Giles Blue Leopard...
I must be getting apathetic...
SH.
I am of the English colonies and was born into the English model - historic - a wife even - (damn it all to hell) - she looks like Lynda Carter - so I put up with the MEN AH PAUSE - BRITISH economic philosophy - BRITISH class structure - but I don't hang plates on my walls...:)
THANK GOD THE FRENCH LOST THE BLOODY WAR - except for Quebec - vive your ass...
I hate their food and I don't wear wigs...
Hell - the French lost a lot of wars and financed America so they would have a 'fall guy' for the history books...
What is a deadlight - I am a poor Canadian looking for directions to the libuary...:)
Can you help me please...
F'in round portals - is that what the Froggies call them - snob would b two bees - but I am awash just now - I mite be rong...:)
Here is my opinion - AHEM - do whatever the F'ck you want - don't second guess those **** ass - mother F'cker designer Wankers - who got thru school on a 65 percentile - on daddies money - bunch of pukes - THIS IS YOUR LIFE MAN...
Do what is good for you...
Deadlights or 'round portals' are BRITISH - they found their way onto yachts from NAVY salvage - they did not evolve - they are the product of brilliant economy - as so many BRITISH things are - bronze sewer piping...
But then I might just be full of ****...:p
See - this is where things get weird and semantic - potato versus vernacular - AHAH - another good boat name - usually the biggest guy wins here - a deadlight to me is glass block set into the decking - or glass block set into sidewalks to light the service or machinery areas below - or in the case of say Seattle and San Fransisco - after the fires - the old bars and canteens...
Aside from all that crap - you have to understand that style evolves around available material technology and more importantly around tooling and economics - at least during the very early parts of the European industrial 'revolution' - I prefer evolution - A worker has a hole saw on a brace drill - some bronze sewer pipe - a braze torch - a lap driven lathe - and some blown glass - oh - and a brain...
A lot could go wrong here - but the British tend to not record their mistakes - only their victories...:)
Today - style seems to evolve around any fat ass that can sell his ******** to the salivating public lottery winners - while walking across the floor with his hands in his pockets - who can hire a mouse jockey to back him up...:)
Today - STYLE OR DESIGN - mean about as much as a particularily stinky fart - it used to Raymond Loewy - the APSCO pencil sharpener - it used to be the Bauhuas - evicted by Hitler to America - it used to Ludwig Meiss Van De Rohe and so many others...
A good read is OBJECTS OF DESIRE...
As for those 'designer Wankers' - Buck Fuller was a drunk till he was 40 - then he just stopped - imagine that...
Hell - I just walked away from an out of print book worth over 200 bucks - selling at 60 - that had lines for Laurent Giles Blue Leopard...
I must be getting apathetic...
SH.
westlawn5554X
03-01-2008, 10:04 PM
Actually, french sold the federation land for cheap to finance the european war... lost a lotta land and spirit... that time they dont have ebay...
safewalrus
03-02-2008, 04:42 PM
The French lost at Waterloo and ain't won a damn thing since!! Any modern French Victory has been done for them by foreigners, WWI and WWII for a start!! Why do you think they have a Foreign Legion? They also do not always win tho' they do much better than pure French (why is there this problem? they have French Officers is why!!) The Only exceptions to this are of course the Bretons, who neither fight wars nor generally give a 5h1t about the rest of France - the main reason being that the Bretons are NOT French they are Celts (like the Welsh, Scots, Erse, Manx and of course the Cornish);)
masalai
03-02-2008, 05:57 PM
Safie, thamks for the "who is up whom and who is paying the rent", now could you also answer that my question in another thread? I think it was CRUD (or is that CRUDE)? Post 162
safewalrus
03-03-2008, 04:25 PM
Surely will Missy Lee - soon as I find it! Might not be to your liking but as sure as it will be an answer - of sorts!!
eponodyne
03-08-2008, 01:12 PM
Some of those self-developed rules must have been based on an aesthetic resembling a that of rabid raccoon on Cialis, though. I like round portlights, myself; but looking through some designs from the Gilded Age (Belle Epoque, pre-Great War era, whatever) it looks like one or two of these poor cruisers took a broadside from HMS Offended.
eponodyne
03-08-2008, 01:15 PM
I also would like to state that, although I am a big fan of French women in French lingerie; of French cuisine in all its charming variety; of the French idea of how life is to be lived;
I find them an extraordinarily easy target for the lowest kind of humor. How the hell do they explain their fascination with Jerry Lewis?
I find them an extraordinarily easy target for the lowest kind of humor. How the hell do they explain their fascination with Jerry Lewis?
Sean Herron
03-08-2008, 04:15 PM
Hello...
Imagine the fun you could have if you actually knew a retard named Jack Alert...:)
See http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?p=189834#post189834 ...
SH.
Imagine the fun you could have if you actually knew a retard named Jack Alert...:)
See http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?p=189834#post189834 ...
SH.
murdomack
03-09-2008, 07:37 AM
The French lost at Waterloo and ain't won a damn thing since!! Any modern French Victory has been done for them by foreigners, WWI and WWII for a start!! Why do you think they have a Foreign Legion? They also do not always win tho' they do much better than pure French (why is there this problem? they have French Officers is why!!) The Only exceptions to this are of course the Bretons, who neither fight wars nor generally give a 5h1t about the rest of France - the main reason being that the Bretons are NOT French they are Celts (like the Welsh, Scots, Erse, Manx and of course the Cornish);)
I have met many Brits who found themselves abandoned by the fleeing UK diplomats of certain African countries when they became independent. The French embassies were their saviours and I have been told that if I am ever in a simillar country when it all goes pear-shaped my best chance of getting out is with the French. They might act independently of everyone else, but they look after their own.
I have met many Brits who found themselves abandoned by the fleeing UK diplomats of certain African countries when they became independent. The French embassies were their saviours and I have been told that if I am ever in a simillar country when it all goes pear-shaped my best chance of getting out is with the French. They might act independently of everyone else, but they look after their own.
clodgo
03-09-2008, 10:38 AM
I know very little about the French, however I do enjoy eating french fries. I realize that they are referred to around the world (France included) as chips but is there a connection between chips, round port lights, and the French?
murdomack
03-09-2008, 01:55 PM
is there a connection between chips, round port lights, and the French?
Well, there is on this thread if nowhere else.
Well, there is on this thread if nowhere else.
safewalrus
03-09-2008, 06:10 PM
Murdo I take it from your comments that you are Escosse, which is why the french look after you - wether from guilt or amusement I'm not sure but they used you cruelly in the bad old days, if only from the view that any enemy of the English can be used to our advantage no matter how stupid they are!! An example being the Jacobite debacle! One of the cheapest foreign policy adventures that the French were actually fairly sucessful in!!
murdomack
03-09-2008, 07:06 PM
Murdo I take it from your comments that you are Escosse, which is why the french look after you - wether from guilt or amusement I'm not sure but they used you cruelly in the bad old days, if only from the view that any enemy of the English can be used to our advantage no matter how stupid they are!! An example being the Jacobite debacle! One of the cheapest foreign policy adventures that the French were actually fairly sucessful in!!
Walrus, my earlier point about the French helping Brits in Africa was told to me by English ex-colonialists. The French have never had to help me although they are always there for any Europeans in need.
I don't think they helped old Ecosse that much either. We were not the enemy of the English, only the defenders of our country against your invading armies.
I know we are stupid, stupid enough to send our taxes to an ungrateful exchequer in a country that has been proven by the recent release of 30 year-old documents to have been telling us blatent lies.
The Jacobite debacle, as you call it, was to do with Religion and the Monarchy and happened after the union of our countries. Scots fought on both sides as did other nationalities.
Murdo
Walrus, my earlier point about the French helping Brits in Africa was told to me by English ex-colonialists. The French have never had to help me although they are always there for any Europeans in need.
I don't think they helped old Ecosse that much either. We were not the enemy of the English, only the defenders of our country against your invading armies.
I know we are stupid, stupid enough to send our taxes to an ungrateful exchequer in a country that has been proven by the recent release of 30 year-old documents to have been telling us blatent lies.
The Jacobite debacle, as you call it, was to do with Religion and the Monarchy and happened after the union of our countries. Scots fought on both sides as did other nationalities.
Murdo
safewalrus
03-10-2008, 05:32 PM
Murdo your right in your own way!! Talking of taxes and things it would appear that you are in the process of getting your revenge, our present goverment is run by the Scots who whilst lining their own pockets (in the traditional manner) are ruining the country, blinded by their hate for all things English. What they convienietly forget is that without the English their would be no Scotland, it would have sunk years ago, and the most damage done to the Scots was by other Scots, again the Jacobite rebellion and the Highland Clearances come to mind!!
charmc
03-13-2008, 03:33 PM
Not returned to round deadlights yet, but those of us with Irish ancestry find it ironic, indeed, that one of our Scot cousins is raising taxes on the English. On his own also, true, but that's the price of unity.
The Scots, of course are descendents of the Irish who crossed the the narrow channel to the Mull of Kintyre from Ulster, then spread out, winning many battles against the Picts. Scotti is Latin, the name given by the Romans to the fierce warriors from Ireland who harassed them constantly. Much later the Brits returned the favor by means of Plantation. Neither the Irish nor the Scots have ever made life easy for the Brits. :D :D
The Scots, of course are descendents of the Irish who crossed the the narrow channel to the Mull of Kintyre from Ulster, then spread out, winning many battles against the Picts. Scotti is Latin, the name given by the Romans to the fierce warriors from Ireland who harassed them constantly. Much later the Brits returned the favor by means of Plantation. Neither the Irish nor the Scots have ever made life easy for the Brits. :D :D
charmc
03-13-2008, 03:40 PM
I have met many Brits who found themselves abandoned by the fleeing UK diplomats of certain African countries when they became independent. The French embassies were their saviours and I have been told that if I am ever in a simillar country when it all goes pear-shaped my best chance of getting out is with the French. They might act independently of everyone else, but they look after their own.
We need to remember that the poor reputation the French have been given is, like the image of America in recent years, largely a product of government policy. Individuals in France are like the rest of us: some good, some bad, and some ugly.
And some damn good tri sailors! :)
We need to remember that the poor reputation the French have been given is, like the image of America in recent years, largely a product of government policy. Individuals in France are like the rest of us: some good, some bad, and some ugly.
And some damn good tri sailors! :)
masalai
03-13-2008, 06:08 PM
I was hoping for some determination on what a "deadlight" is in the maritime context.... I was of the view that it was those rectangular glass cubes mounted on a raised box on the deck above the "galley" and the panels could open a bit to let out the smoke of cooking over a fire in a sandbox - but were mostly kept shut so the fire was not extinguished.... The few pics I have seen (I cannot find any now, even on google) - the box and related parts were of robust construction - sufficient that a sailor falling from the yards would not penetrate into the hull:D:D
charmc
03-13-2008, 06:30 PM
Surprisingly, I've discovered 3 definitons:
1) A portlight which does not open.
2) A watertight glass or prism mounted in the deck or cabin top which lets light below.
3) A heavy cover over a porthole which keeps out light and water.
Then there is:
portlight (n): The heavy glass cover for a porthole that can be opened for air, or dogged shut when the seas are rough. See Also: deadlight
1) A portlight which does not open.
2) A watertight glass or prism mounted in the deck or cabin top which lets light below.
3) A heavy cover over a porthole which keeps out light and water.
Then there is:
portlight (n): The heavy glass cover for a porthole that can be opened for air, or dogged shut when the seas are rough. See Also: deadlight
safewalrus
03-13-2008, 06:42 PM
Talking of your Irish ancestors Charlie (fine warriors were the galloglass / Wild Geese, tho' of different era's - the English have locked horns with them on many occasion, not always to our advantage - enough!) you did realise they gav e the Scots the bagpipes - the Scots haven't seen the joke yet!! That'll get Bergalia back if nothing else will!
masalai
03-13-2008, 06:54 PM
Thanks Charlie, Your point 2 was my understanding... I would gladly give you some points - but I am not allowed:P:P - maybe Safie will loan me a few so to speak and award you with some positive feedback - Please...
Safie, Bergs seems to sneak on briefly - in the more "sober" threads - and "disappear" suddenly - I guess he is pre-occupied with "serious womens business?"
Safie, Bergs seems to sneak on briefly - in the more "sober" threads - and "disappear" suddenly - I guess he is pre-occupied with "serious womens business?"
safewalrus
03-13-2008, 06:58 PM
Missy Lee your wish is my command, points transmitted (actually I was surprised I was allowed to give Charlie some as I gave him a few not long back, obviously longer than I thought!!) But I favour point number 3 - that's the way I was brought up!!
masalai
03-13-2008, 07:21 PM
Ahhh so you are post "square rigger" - in education/indoctrination. - - I feel History is the thing & I recall (pictures from my early learning books - encyclopaedias) those grain/wool clippers doing the Aussy/Europe run.... I could read and write longhand before age 5 thanks to Great Grand Mother who was a teacher - and traveller -she taught in Ceylon (now Sri Lanka), India, Japan and Croydon (Goldfields in the Gulf of Carpentaria, Australia)
clodgo
03-13-2008, 07:22 PM
Hmm, "portlight (n): The heavy glass cover for a porthole that can be opened for air, or dogged shut when the seas are rough. See Also: deadlight"
I think I see the connection! Perhaps it was through the deadlight that the French were able to pass chips from one boat to another in bad weather, hence the "French Fry". All it took was a bit of logic and all of the helpful comments in my runaway thread:P
I think I see the connection! Perhaps it was through the deadlight that the French were able to pass chips from one boat to another in bad weather, hence the "French Fry". All it took was a bit of logic and all of the helpful comments in my runaway thread:P
masalai
03-13-2008, 07:46 PM
Glad we could be of assistance, - - clodgo - - I am inclined not to favour Safies choice on historical grounds - which after all is very important in things maritime...
charmc
03-13-2008, 09:54 PM
clodgo,
We would not have been showing any respect if we had just told you the relationship. We knew you were bright enough to make The French Connection on your own! :P :P :D :D
We would not have been showing any respect if we had just told you the relationship. We knew you were bright enough to make The French Connection on your own! :P :P :D :D
charmc
03-13-2008, 10:03 PM
portlight (n): The heavy glass cover for a porthole that can be opened for air, or dogged shut when the seas are rough. See Also: deadlight
deadlight: 1) A portlight which does not open.
OK, now I get it. A portlight is supposed to open. So a portlight that does not open is a ....(drum roll, brrrrrrrrrrrrrr) ... deadlight! :D
deadlight: 1) A portlight which does not open.
OK, now I get it. A portlight is supposed to open. So a portlight that does not open is a ....(drum roll, brrrrrrrrrrrrrr) ... deadlight! :D
PAR
03-13-2008, 11:00 PM
An opening hole is a port, be it one that permits light to pass or not (gun port, rudder port, etc.). A frame installed over a port, typically with a glass insert makes it a light, if it opens it's a port, if not it's dead, fixed or just a light. The cut glass, crystal thingies on decks are called deck prisms and their sole function is obvious, to entertain drunken sailors below with a dancing glow on the inside of the cabin. There are also shutters or shields for these devices, which are used in storms, to keep crashing waves from stoving them in, most often fitted over, from the weather deck.
safewalrus
03-14-2008, 07:05 PM
On yachts or sailing vessels yes!! I on the other hand first came across 'deadlights' as a young boy in Her Britannic Majesties Navy (the vessels I was on before that didn't have 'windies' to small) And if the BEST NAVY IN THE WORLD tells you that deadlights are the steelflaps that you drop over the portholes (scuttles to them) to deaden out the light then you better believe them!!
[standing by for incoming, especially from the 'new' navies like Oz and the Septics - both based on ours when they started, manned by a lot of ours too!)
[standing by for incoming, especially from the 'new' navies like Oz and the Septics - both based on ours when they started, manned by a lot of ours too!)
masalai
03-14-2008, 07:18 PM
Manned? (in true Goons voice - form), lot of bloody girls... (Not really this is an outright concoction - just for the "stir" potential)
safewalrus
03-14-2008, 07:26 PM
good fishing round here ain't it? I've got a bite already!!
Landlubber
03-14-2008, 07:30 PM
safewalrus,
The Poms are very good at comedy, in fact I would rather listen to English comedy any day over all others, so i guess you were trying to be funny saying that they have the best Navy in the world, sort of like your dry humour.
The Poms are very good at comedy, in fact I would rather listen to English comedy any day over all others, so i guess you were trying to be funny saying that they have the best Navy in the world, sort of like your dry humour.
safewalrus
03-14-2008, 07:42 PM
Strike two!!
But both Aussies (your Navy still is manned by us, trained by us to!!) they tend to be too bony and have strange marks on their extremities, kinda like bands!!
But both Aussies (your Navy still is manned by us, trained by us to!!) they tend to be too bony and have strange marks on their extremities, kinda like bands!!
masalai
03-14-2008, 07:53 PM
I guess all the septics are asleep - as usual...
Landlubber
03-15-2008, 08:33 AM
Three strikes and you are out!, com'n Aussie com'on, com'on!
safewalrus
03-15-2008, 05:44 PM
I am surprised - no bites from the Septics! Guess it's like Mas said they be all asleep!
masalai
03-15-2008, 05:53 PM
Learn laddie, to set things alight, wait till "the1" is in a boored frame of mind then point him in the general direction adding a little support & encouragement... If it is tinder dry, be careful of "wildfires":D:D:D:D he he he he
safewalrus
03-15-2008, 06:01 PM
I think he's got that one all sorted out at the moment, and a wee bit more than he needs - hope he's got his frying pan with him! Shame to miss an opportunity eh!! (few large potatoes wrapped in ali foil'd be useful too!!:cool: :cool: :cool: :D
masalai
03-15-2008, 06:17 PM
No No No No No - - no - I was referring to pizza man :D but using the current woes as an analogy that you may be able to understand:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:P
That Dicker of Vibley can be enjoyed in many ways He He he...
That Dicker of Vibley can be enjoyed in many ways He He he...
Western grace
03-15-2008, 10:22 PM
port light or windows in a vessel are normally the weakest part of the hull. thus it make sence to limit the number to the minimum. but than again no one wanst to live in a coffin. For instance the new regulations for small yachts used as small passenger vessel allows then not at all. this is besides the point as the question was round vs others shapes, but to bring the point across that portlights in small vessel hulls are on the way out.
John
John
safewalrus
03-16-2008, 02:29 PM
Always thought doors and hatches were the 'way out', port holes and windows tend to be too small!
Your 'regualtions' might say no! but not the rest of the world!!
Your 'regualtions' might say no! but not the rest of the world!!
murdomack
03-17-2008, 07:04 PM
Talking of your Irish ancestors Charlie (fine warriors were the galloglass / Wild Geese, tho' of different era's - the English have locked horns with them on many occasion, not always to our advantage - enough!) you did realise they gav e the Scots the bagpipes - the Scots haven't seen the joke yet!! That'll get Bergalia back if nothing else will!
Walrus
The Galloglas were actually Viking-Scots who fought for the Irish Kings. Many of them settled in Ireland. See appended article
Murdo
The Galloglaich ("Galloglas") were Scottish mercenaries in Ireland, forming the backbone of the Irish armies from the late 1200s through the early 1600s. They were drawn from the best fighters in the Hebrides, mostly MacDonalds but also including the MacRorys, MacSwineys (or MacSweeneys), MacSheehys, MacDowells, and MacCabes. The word galloglaich means "foreign young warrior", and refers not only to the fact that they were from outside Ireland, but that they were of mixed Scottish-Viking stock, the result of many centuries of Viking raids on the Western Isles and Scotland's western coast.
During this time period, the Anglo-Normans (the "English" or, to us Scots, the "Sassenachs") were constantly invading Ireland, trying to take it over as they had Britain, and the Irish were having a hard time fighting them off. The English had many heavily armored, mounted knights; their charge, with lances couched, could usually break up the lightly armored Irish troops. They were also better equipped for, and more experienced with, long campaigns and large set-piece battles, where the Irish were more used to short, small-scale clan conflicts.
The Scots had experience in dealing with the mounted English knights, and the heavily armed and armored galloglaich put that experience to good use, which is why they were so valuable to the Irish. While the average Irish warrior wore only padded or leather armor, the galloglaich were well-armored with a hauberk (mail coat) and helmet. Their favored weapon was a large axe, about six feet long, variously described by foreign observers as a halberd or bardiche, but generally what we now call a sparth axe; it had a long, narrow, curved blade about 18" long, attached by its center and bottom to the pole. Other designs have also been illustrated, of course, but it was the sparth axe for which they were famous. Otherwise, they carried a sgian (knife, not unlike a ballock dagger or dirk), and as time went on they adopted various Irish-styled swords, some as large as claymores. With their axes, they could break a knight's lance, or bring down rider and horse. They were noted for their courage and fierceness in battle; they were placed in the van (lead, front and center) of the Irish armies, with the lighter armed Irish footmen and cavalry guarding their flanks. In typical Celtic fashion, they would close quickly with their opponents in a ferocious and violent attack; they would either win quickly or die in the attempt. The English quickly learned to fear the galloglaich.
The galloglaich were well-paid for their efforts. In a society that valued cattle as wealth, they received 3 cattle per quarter-year, as well as all the grain and butter they needed. A consapal (captain) was paid even more, of course, and many became quite wealthy, owning large tracts of land. They were also fairly independent, and the MacDonalds had territory in the Glens of Antrim, where they were independent of both the Irish and the English. There, they maintained a continual military presence for several centuries. They got their start in 1259, when Aed O'Connor married a MacDonald princess; she was accompanied to Ireland by 160 MacDonald warriors. In addition to the battles against the English, they took part in many clan squabbles as well, sometimes on both sides. Their prominence lasted well into the 1500s, when England started another massive push into Ireland. During this time, the galloglaich were joined by more Scottish warriors, again mostly Hebridean, and called by the English "Redshanks" (a name that had been applied by the English to the Scots for quite some time, alluding to the Scots' practice of going bare-legged and barefoot). These new warriors carried claymores, and some had firearms. This signaled a change in the styles of warfare to which the galloglaich had become accustomed; they continued to do well for a time, but by the late 1500s, they had become an anachronism. Pike formations protected by musketeers could blunt their charges, and were less vulnerable that mounted knights. Cannons and musket fire could carve through their ranks before they closed for hand-to-hand combat. They enjoyed amazing success in campaigns from 1595 through 1600, but their last appearance was at the battle of Kinsdale in 1601, where they were decimated by the English in a pitched battle.
While they were an anachronism at the end, and were ultimately defeated, the galloglaich played a huge role in preserving another part of Gaelic culture against the English for several centuries longer than might have happened without them. And by distracting the English with the Irish, they probably kept them out of the Scottish Highlands for a time, allowing that culture to survive also, and keeping our heritage richer than it otherwise might have been.
Walrus
The Galloglas were actually Viking-Scots who fought for the Irish Kings. Many of them settled in Ireland. See appended article
Murdo
The Galloglaich ("Galloglas") were Scottish mercenaries in Ireland, forming the backbone of the Irish armies from the late 1200s through the early 1600s. They were drawn from the best fighters in the Hebrides, mostly MacDonalds but also including the MacRorys, MacSwineys (or MacSweeneys), MacSheehys, MacDowells, and MacCabes. The word galloglaich means "foreign young warrior", and refers not only to the fact that they were from outside Ireland, but that they were of mixed Scottish-Viking stock, the result of many centuries of Viking raids on the Western Isles and Scotland's western coast.
During this time period, the Anglo-Normans (the "English" or, to us Scots, the "Sassenachs") were constantly invading Ireland, trying to take it over as they had Britain, and the Irish were having a hard time fighting them off. The English had many heavily armored, mounted knights; their charge, with lances couched, could usually break up the lightly armored Irish troops. They were also better equipped for, and more experienced with, long campaigns and large set-piece battles, where the Irish were more used to short, small-scale clan conflicts.
The Scots had experience in dealing with the mounted English knights, and the heavily armed and armored galloglaich put that experience to good use, which is why they were so valuable to the Irish. While the average Irish warrior wore only padded or leather armor, the galloglaich were well-armored with a hauberk (mail coat) and helmet. Their favored weapon was a large axe, about six feet long, variously described by foreign observers as a halberd or bardiche, but generally what we now call a sparth axe; it had a long, narrow, curved blade about 18" long, attached by its center and bottom to the pole. Other designs have also been illustrated, of course, but it was the sparth axe for which they were famous. Otherwise, they carried a sgian (knife, not unlike a ballock dagger or dirk), and as time went on they adopted various Irish-styled swords, some as large as claymores. With their axes, they could break a knight's lance, or bring down rider and horse. They were noted for their courage and fierceness in battle; they were placed in the van (lead, front and center) of the Irish armies, with the lighter armed Irish footmen and cavalry guarding their flanks. In typical Celtic fashion, they would close quickly with their opponents in a ferocious and violent attack; they would either win quickly or die in the attempt. The English quickly learned to fear the galloglaich.
The galloglaich were well-paid for their efforts. In a society that valued cattle as wealth, they received 3 cattle per quarter-year, as well as all the grain and butter they needed. A consapal (captain) was paid even more, of course, and many became quite wealthy, owning large tracts of land. They were also fairly independent, and the MacDonalds had territory in the Glens of Antrim, where they were independent of both the Irish and the English. There, they maintained a continual military presence for several centuries. They got their start in 1259, when Aed O'Connor married a MacDonald princess; she was accompanied to Ireland by 160 MacDonald warriors. In addition to the battles against the English, they took part in many clan squabbles as well, sometimes on both sides. Their prominence lasted well into the 1500s, when England started another massive push into Ireland. During this time, the galloglaich were joined by more Scottish warriors, again mostly Hebridean, and called by the English "Redshanks" (a name that had been applied by the English to the Scots for quite some time, alluding to the Scots' practice of going bare-legged and barefoot). These new warriors carried claymores, and some had firearms. This signaled a change in the styles of warfare to which the galloglaich had become accustomed; they continued to do well for a time, but by the late 1500s, they had become an anachronism. Pike formations protected by musketeers could blunt their charges, and were less vulnerable that mounted knights. Cannons and musket fire could carve through their ranks before they closed for hand-to-hand combat. They enjoyed amazing success in campaigns from 1595 through 1600, but their last appearance was at the battle of Kinsdale in 1601, where they were decimated by the English in a pitched battle.
While they were an anachronism at the end, and were ultimately defeated, the galloglaich played a huge role in preserving another part of Gaelic culture against the English for several centuries longer than might have happened without them. And by distracting the English with the Irish, they probably kept them out of the Scottish Highlands for a time, allowing that culture to survive also, and keeping our heritage richer than it otherwise might have been.
masalai
03-17-2008, 07:28 PM
Thank you sir for the history lesson - very much appreciated... Bregalia is still absent???
Landlubber
03-18-2008, 05:34 AM
I think Berg may have upped his skirt and shot through!
(always thought he sounded fairly intellegent)
(always thought he sounded fairly intellegent)
safewalrus
03-18-2008, 06:22 PM
Murdo, thats as maybe but over a couple of hundred years being fine young men I'm sure many of them got amongst the local ladies as it were, no doubt this produced several babies, again as they grow older, etc these become ancestors! Now go read my post again!
and were not the isles men of Irish descent? Aye yer a mixed bag for sure, marked by only one thing -yer all Fe.......
and were not the isles men of Irish descent? Aye yer a mixed bag for sure, marked by only one thing -yer all Fe.......
charmc
03-18-2008, 10:49 PM
As Murdo reminded us ... the Irish who became the Scots thrived fighting the English/Sassenachs, and those Scots later went back and aided their Irish cousins (And yes, over the centuries there was much intermingling among the lads and lassies, as the dividing sea is quite narrow, and winds blew oft agin the poor fisher lads, forcing them to put ashore for R & R wherever they could :)). Aye, a mixed bag for sure, all we have in common is that we're all far more handsome than the English. :D :D
murdomack
03-19-2008, 06:24 AM
Charlie
I wouldn't just say that "all we have in common is that we're all far more handsome than the English."but, well, your right about that bit anyway:D :p ;) .
There has been some interesting DNA research done recently. The English and Lowland Scots are predominantly Saxon (Sassenach) except for pockets of Danish ancestry on the East Coast which also goes up into the East of Scotland. Ireland is predominantly Celtic with traces of Norwegian, as is the Highlands and Islands of Scotland. When you get to the Lews (Lewis and Harris) the people are nearly all from Norwegian stock and obviously the same applies to the Northern Isles.
This research proves that Walrus is wrong when he says that the Isles men were all from Irish descent and coincidentally the people from these Norwegian areas have never been Fe....... as he puts it, although they speak and live as Celts in the Lews. I can't recall what they said about the Cornish area, probably all "white settlers" from the smoke (London):D :D
Another interesting fact that I have heard from people who travel throughout the Celtic areas, singers and musicians mostly, is that a Gaelic speaker from the Northern Hebrides can converse easier with a Southern Irish Gaelic speaker than he can with someone from the North of Ireland and that Gaelic speakers from the North of Ireland better understand people from the Southern Hebrides. This shows that the Saxon wedge of Ulster served its purpose in more ways than one, by splitting the Celtic nations and culture. They were masters of genocide.
Murdo
I wouldn't just say that "all we have in common is that we're all far more handsome than the English."but, well, your right about that bit anyway:D :p ;) .
There has been some interesting DNA research done recently. The English and Lowland Scots are predominantly Saxon (Sassenach) except for pockets of Danish ancestry on the East Coast which also goes up into the East of Scotland. Ireland is predominantly Celtic with traces of Norwegian, as is the Highlands and Islands of Scotland. When you get to the Lews (Lewis and Harris) the people are nearly all from Norwegian stock and obviously the same applies to the Northern Isles.
This research proves that Walrus is wrong when he says that the Isles men were all from Irish descent and coincidentally the people from these Norwegian areas have never been Fe....... as he puts it, although they speak and live as Celts in the Lews. I can't recall what they said about the Cornish area, probably all "white settlers" from the smoke (London):D :D
Another interesting fact that I have heard from people who travel throughout the Celtic areas, singers and musicians mostly, is that a Gaelic speaker from the Northern Hebrides can converse easier with a Southern Irish Gaelic speaker than he can with someone from the North of Ireland and that Gaelic speakers from the North of Ireland better understand people from the Southern Hebrides. This shows that the Saxon wedge of Ulster served its purpose in more ways than one, by splitting the Celtic nations and culture. They were masters of genocide.
Murdo
safewalrus
03-19-2008, 06:37 PM
there are two families of the Celtic Nation, the interbred Northern ones formed by the ruffians who speak Gaelic (Scots) Erse (Irish) and Manx (isle of Mann) And the more sophisticated and culteral Southern ones who speak Welsh (Wales) Breton (France) and Kernow (Cornish)!
It is interesting to note that at one time the secular Erse were more Christian than the Papist lot from Rome, which of course was their undoing, as the Papists did not care who they destroyed as long as they got their way - nothing much changes there then, however as this is now touching on the depth of a long and often vicious religious war (still ongoing despite various assurances from certain politicians, who only wish to line their own nests) may I suggest that we stop there because any further will draw out unwanted aggresive actions!
And Murdo I thank you for your appreciation of the abilities of the Anglo-Saxon along the lines of genocide! which of course moves on unabated wheresoever they settle! Even unto the New World! Enough whilst you may!!
It is interesting to note that at one time the secular Erse were more Christian than the Papist lot from Rome, which of course was their undoing, as the Papists did not care who they destroyed as long as they got their way - nothing much changes there then, however as this is now touching on the depth of a long and often vicious religious war (still ongoing despite various assurances from certain politicians, who only wish to line their own nests) may I suggest that we stop there because any further will draw out unwanted aggresive actions!
And Murdo I thank you for your appreciation of the abilities of the Anglo-Saxon along the lines of genocide! which of course moves on unabated wheresoever they settle! Even unto the New World! Enough whilst you may!!
masalai
03-20-2008, 03:36 AM
Anybody for tennis?
Deck quoits then?
Deck quoits then?
Frosty
03-20-2008, 03:39 AM
hello
Whats this thread about then?
Can I dribble on it?
It looks dribble so far.
Whats this thread about then?
Can I dribble on it?
It looks dribble so far.
masalai
03-20-2008, 03:43 AM
Yer deadlights, so keep em shut, they is not supposed to be open else they is not deadlights but port lights? so sayeth Charmc... after analysing the depate...
Frosty
03-20-2008, 04:01 AM
Errrm ,--just a thought but if they are shut wont they be shutlights.
I have seen so called modern catamarans with hatches such as Lewmar etc inside the hull about 1 foot off the water.
?????!!!!!! You must be bloody joking. If one of those plastic hatches glue comes apart it will sink faster than you can say,"turn the bilge on"
Stupid Idea or what? have you seen them?
I have seen so called modern catamarans with hatches such as Lewmar etc inside the hull about 1 foot off the water.
?????!!!!!! You must be bloody joking. If one of those plastic hatches glue comes apart it will sink faster than you can say,"turn the bilge on"
Stupid Idea or what? have you seen them?
masalai
03-20-2008, 04:21 AM
The absolute wisdom of bureaucrats again - to "race" the boat must be fitted with one on each hull for access when arse up - so "Don't build to race"...
If raided by pirates or maritime authorities makes a neat escape hatch - but a Bloody long way to swim...
If raided by pirates or maritime authorities makes a neat escape hatch - but a Bloody long way to swim...
Frosty
03-20-2008, 04:58 AM
Its a 2 foot square bloody hole in your boat, a foot of the water line??
In a storm the hull will be banging and thrashing through the sea. If one of those plastic glued in( and they are glued in ) hatches comes open, its all over.
I don't think they were even made for such abuse.
Escape from the bottom of the boat?? Some one been watching the "Posedin adventure". Who thinks this up? a 5 year old?
I think it just -just - Oh,-- there ive just kicked the dog.
In a storm the hull will be banging and thrashing through the sea. If one of those plastic glued in( and they are glued in ) hatches comes open, its all over.
I don't think they were even made for such abuse.
Escape from the bottom of the boat?? Some one been watching the "Posedin adventure". Who thinks this up? a 5 year old?
I think it just -just - Oh,-- there ive just kicked the dog.
murdomack
03-20-2008, 05:00 AM
Yer deadlights, so keep em shut, they is not supposed to be open else they is not deadlights but port lights? so sayeth Charmc... after analysing the depate...
Yes port lights, nothing to do with port as in port, or port and starboard, but as in porte an opening in FRENCH, God, I've done it again:D
Sorry about going off track so much earlier:cool:
Yes port lights, nothing to do with port as in port, or port and starboard, but as in porte an opening in FRENCH, God, I've done it again:D
Sorry about going off track so much earlier:cool:
charmc
03-20-2008, 11:26 AM
Errrm ,--just a thought but if they are shut wont they be shutlights.
I have seen so called modern catamarans with hatches such as Lewmar etc inside the hull about 1 foot off the water.
?????!!!!!! You must be bloody joking. If one of those plastic hatches glue comes apart it will sink faster than you can say,"turn the bilge on"
Stupid Idea or what? have you seen them?
Remember that guy in the "Build a boat, do a lap" thread? His homebuilt tri had a homemade escape hatch half underwater when he began his voyage. You can argue the merits or lack thereof of a costly engineered hatch near the waterline, but a homemade one below the waterline is downright suicidal. Maybe more evidence for Darwin's theory? :D :D
I have seen so called modern catamarans with hatches such as Lewmar etc inside the hull about 1 foot off the water.
?????!!!!!! You must be bloody joking. If one of those plastic hatches glue comes apart it will sink faster than you can say,"turn the bilge on"
Stupid Idea or what? have you seen them?
Remember that guy in the "Build a boat, do a lap" thread? His homebuilt tri had a homemade escape hatch half underwater when he began his voyage. You can argue the merits or lack thereof of a costly engineered hatch near the waterline, but a homemade one below the waterline is downright suicidal. Maybe more evidence for Darwin's theory? :D :D
safewalrus
03-20-2008, 02:54 PM
Maybe he just wanted a swinning pool - in the right weather he'd have one!! Whoops!
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