Employment in Asia

[vinceUK]

Dear All,

I am actually student at the Southampton Institute, graduated in a few months with a “Bachelor of science, Yacht Manufacturing and Surveying”.
I would be interested in gaining some work experience (I have already a bit), especially in some sort of project management. It seems easier to find a job in Asia (after research on the internet). Do you think that there are jobs related to this field for a person freshly graduated?

Another question, what would be typical average wages for this kind of occupation?

Thanks for advising me. Vince

[vinceUK]

Please,

I am sure that you can give me information wether if my profile is OK, where the most dynamic places are and what would be an average salary for this kind of jobs. It is really important to me and I find hard to find more stuff on this subject on the internet. Thank you very much, Vince

[vinceUK]

OK! So it seems that there is no information on this at all. I am amazed. I thought it would be different. New question then... Excpet this website and the sites of the companies themselves, is there a website that regroups all the job adverts for naval architecture and marine construction? I would really help me so thanks a lot. Vince

[Landlubber]

vinceUK,

No one has responded to your request so I thought I would give my two cents worth.

To just graduate and expect to be given a Project Management job might just be a bit rich mate. The boat manufacturing game is one of many phases, having a degree certainly will help, but it is experience that most manufacturers are looking for, and that is your dilemma.

Not many people in this game start at the top. A boat is like a small city, it is built up from many aspects, electrical, electronics, plumbing, sanitation, design (as in furnishings), construction, engineering etc etc, and to take on a Project Management position, you will be expected to know every part of a boat, what it does, and why it does what it does.

Knowing the correct height for engine vents, knowing that hatches in decks need to be sealed correctly, how to wire so that there are drip loops, where to put bilge pumps, how to arrange tanks so that they are balancing the weights on the boat, there are hundreds of things that we have to examine all the time whilst managing a boatbuilding project.

99.9% of this knowledge is gained from years of experience, the tech side is very important too, so that you understand the whys etc, but I would suggest that you start working in any position in a boatyard to get at least 2 years experience in practical boatbuilding before offering yourself off as a Project Manager looking for work.

Please forgive me if I sound belittling, it is certainly not meant to be so, but I am yet to see someone fresh out of any institution that knows the pointed end from the blunt end. Just be patient my friend, and the work will come to you eventually as you learn more about the game.

When I was doing my apprenticeship, many graduates thought they would be boss in 5 minutes, but unfortunately life is not so. It actually takes, I reckon, at least 10 years to really understand boats, but not to worry, you earn as you go, just not the top dollars, but you do eventually get there.

Hang in there mate, and get some more experience in construction before looking for a management job, then it will all become very easy for you to do also. It becomes second nature after a while.

All the best.

[vinceUK]

Hi Landlubber,

Do not be sorry. I am really grateful for that. I am french and english is not my mother tongue so I might not have expressed things correctly. What I meant by "Jobs related to this field" is occupation dealing wih optimization of production, ... I do not have the pretention of becoming a project manager tomorrow. But the thing is that I have been looking for jobs in this field in France and there is none of them so I thought that it would be easier to gain some experience in Asia as the sector seems much more dynamic there.

I am not a 20 year-old freshly graduated boy neither and have already worked a few years so I think I see really well what you mean. But I am really interested in that and hopes some persons could give me some indications on the possibilities to find these kind of jobs, the places and the salaries. That is pretty much it.

Thank you very much indeed, I am really open-minded to every opinion. I just hope I have been clearer this time. Vince

[Landlubber]

Hi Vince,

I had a feeling English ws not your mother tongue, yet I read the address and thought maybe it is.

There is work in Asia, the pay goes from local wages, $1 a day to bout $200 for the more experienced. I hear often of greater salaries, but they are the exception rather than the rule, and are often short lived.

The Asians like to get all they can from you and dump you asap. I have been fortunate in that I am a permanent employee, are paid reasonably well, and love my work, which is varied and in 4 yards, so I have fun as well as work.

If you are honest and reliable, I cannot see why you would not be employed. They the Employment section of the international papers.

[vinceUK]

Thanks for that, tha is a great help. I have used VinceUK as a nickname as Vince was already used and it was not a great time in history to claim your french nationality on a forum with a majority of american users... Thanks again for these positive points. Vince

[Landlubber]

Hey do not worry about your nationality, we all love Frogs here, especially thier hind legs!

[westlawn5554X]

Vince try China... they have designer but still not enough... fresh meat for the grinder... They pop up the ladder soon for selling cheap sailing boat why not gain some experience in mass product? Later if you feel as a custom designer... you would avoid traces of that twin look from the East...

I am not saying China is bad or etc... I just assume China is absorbing a lotta designer for their need... Good luck.

[masalai]

Gees that mask looks ugly Westie, does not become you - I feel a slightly more "honest" avater - one which expresses your considerate nature & yet has a small indication at humour - a well balanced, caring and interesting person to get to know...

[lazeyjack]

Thanks for that, tha is a great help. I have used VinceUK as a nickname as Vince was already used and it was not a great time in history to claim your french nationality on a forum with a majority of american users... Thanks again for these positive points. Vince
Ca Va Vince
look at austal yachts in Perth AU
Lubs is right
To be a project manager you need years hands on, nothing and I mean NOTHING peeves a skilled alround trademan ,more than some green joker getting paid twice as much, who could not do at least one thing as well as that tradesperson, let alone everything as well
may I suggest you try Alloy Yachts NZ, Huisman Netherlands(worlds finest)
All of the superyacht yards are booked out for years, there is no new build space
Bon Chance mon ami

[jobfinder]

Dear All,

I am actually student at the Southampton Institute, graduated in a few months with a “Bachelor of science, Yacht Manufacturing and Surveying”.
I would be interested in gaining some work experience (I have already a bit), especially in some sort of project management. It seems easier to find a job in Asia (after research on the internet). Do you think that there are jobs related to this field for a person freshly graduated?

Another question, what would be typical average wages for this kind of occupation?

Thanks for advising me. Vince


Please leave your email address so we can contact you about our job proposal. Thanks

[vinceUK]

Please leave your email address so we can contact you about our job proposal. Thanks

vinhermes@googlemail.com

I look forward to hearing from you

[Raven]

VinceUK, what you have heard from others is generally true. Beware job offers in and around Thailand. I have lived and worked here for over 15 years, and have over 20 years experience in the ship/boat building repair industry. There just isn't that much around here. What is on offer is generally from fly by night types. Not saying there are not any honest people here, just not many.
Best of luck.
Try Nico International - Nico Craft U.A.E., and Strategic Marine. They want Project managers, but I dare say with more than 10 years experience and solid trade background. Still no harm in asking - costs you nothing.

[john.deete]

lived and worked in Thailand for over 15 years for a few yards and always got paid for my work on time.
Thailand's no different to any other country, you get good and bad everywhere

[Alik]

Actually, in Thailand there is no sence to hire foreign just graduate engineer without experience because Thai naval architects (both local or foreign educated) are available at lower salary. Thai government sets quite high minimal salary rates for foreigners, so the guy should be really good and have experience to justify his salary.

[Raven]

lived and worked in Thailand for over 15 years for a few yards and always got paid for my work on time.
Thailand's no different to any other country, you get good and bad everywhere

Agreed, in fact the bad ones I have met here actually migrated from elsewhere, or have other yards starting in China. Go figure.

[Raven]

Actually, in Thailand there is no sence to hire foreign just graduate engineer without experience because Thai naval architects (both local or foreign educated) are available at lower salary. Thai government sets quite high minimal salary rates for foreigners, so the guy should be really good and have experience to justify his salary.

I have yet to meet a NA that knows anything about building vessels. From large military, down to workboats. I have found NA's have little or no comprehension of the realities of building bots/ships. Yacht NA's seem to be better, but lose it when they start on the interior fitout. If they worked more hands on they would get to know more about what they drew.

There had my bitch for the day.

[Raven]

...so the guy should be really good and have experience to justify his salary.

ha ha ha, been here lately? Most of the guys I meet are good tradesmen, trouble is they pretend to be managers. In fact the yards on the Eastern seaboard have a history of poor management and dodgey operators.
No point in naming names, the fools that employ them should have known better or at least checked their CV's.

[Alik]

I have yet to meet a NA that knows anything about building vessels. From large military, down to workboats. I have found NA's have little or no comprehension of the realities of building bots/ships. Yacht NA's seem to be better, but lose it when they start on the interior fitout. If they worked more hands on they would get to know more about what they drew.


If so, I can state that Your experinece with NA is quite limited. Just from training side, in my country NA studies for 5 years and is required to get 'shipwright worker' cetrificate prior to becoming an engineer :)

[Raven]

If so, I can state that Your experinece with NA is quite limited. Just from training side, in my country NA studies for 5 years and is required to get 'shipwright worker' cetrificate prior to becoming an engineer :)

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but every boat/ship I built needed a lot of revisions for oversights by NA's
They get 4 years in a degree course in Australia, but in general don't know their nose from their behind.
I did 6 years trade, 4 years diploma, 4 years degree work, 15 years in bewteeen working my but off. I'm still learning with new technology introductions.
Most boffins (NA's) I've met are useless on the shop floor.

[Alik]

Raven, generally I agree, but this is always very individual. I think many NA's in this forum have real workshop experience.

[Raven]

Raven, generally I agree, but this is always very individual. I think many NA's in this forum have real workshop experience.

Glad to hear that, hope I meet some.

[vinceUK]

Dear all,


Thanks for sharing your opinion, either positive or negative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alik
Raven, generally I agree, but this is always very individual. I think many NA's in this forum have real workshop experience.

I think we have exactly the same opinion and there are in every sector more or less skilled persons, why would it not be the same in the marine industry ?

If I apply to this kind of jobs this is because I really think I can bring something to the company. You know as I do that it is hard to get a good opinion on his own person but there are elements I tried to take into account. Others than the personal qualities (dynamism, motivation, etc) I have been a hands-in technician for years and have only decided to be back to University after this period and am about to get a good bachelor of science (either first or 2 :1). I am not going to write my all cv (if you want one, I will send it with pleasure), but this was just to explain you why I feel confident that I would not be as useless as some persons mentioned above.

Thanks to this thread I have been contacted by a Thai company. One of the managers sent me an accurate job description, and to make sure that I do not apply to something not adapted to me, I went to see one of my lecturers (NA) who I have been working with last summer in an English company. He said that it was really spot-on and that he doesn’t see why I should not be skilled for that. Of course, there is always a learning-curve and areas that I still have to learn but this is part of every job and if I keep on thinking about them, then I wil never apply to any job.

I do not want to make my own advert through this post but just to show that every profile is different.

I just can not understand why some persons make generalities on graduated people (frustration?, previous bad experience that becomes a generality?, …) and always try to lowr them….
Vince

[masalai]

Good onyer Sir, and may you learn more, and enjoy your challenges in life...

[Alik]

Vince, I think I know this recrutment agency. Any references You need - please ask me :)

[vinceUK]

Cheers Alik. I sent a CV to the manager about a month ago. He said that he would follow it to the director. I am still waiting for their answer. I appreciate it. Vince

[jusembo]

Vincent,

I'm looking for a trainee for our, beginning, boatyard specialized in wood cold-molding.
Location is south of China

[Raven]

I just can not understand why some persons make generalities on graduated people (frustration?, previous bad experience that becomes a generality?, …) and always try to lowr them….
Vince
Congratulations, hope you do well, I found out the same, as I aged, and went through the diploma, and BE Maritime routes after realising my skills base was inadequate.
I'm not lowering anyones self esteem, merely voicing my opinion based on 15+ years of observation, like I said would be happy for it to be otherwise.;)