What Do We Think About Climate Change

[Pericles]

How about this?

Calm Sun, Cold Earth (http://www.anxietycenter.com/climate/earth.htm)
Alan Caruba
Published 02/17/2008 - 9:23 a.m. EST

I can understand why people believe that global warming is real and that all the things Greens say are true. One cannot read a newspaper or magazine, turn on the television or radio, without getting the Green message.

Since switching their message in the 1970s that an Ice Age was coming to the complete fiction of a massive, dramatic global warming due to greenhouse gases, the Greens have been able to influence policy at the international and national level. They have been utterly relentless, a modern version of the Mongols on horseback who swept out of the East to conquer everything before them until the reached the gates of Europe. These days the Greens have long since conquered Europe.

One thing alone stands against the Greens. The SCIENCE does not support them. Their sense of moral superiority, their contempt for all things modern, their resistance to all forms of energy except the weakest—wind and solar, and at the very heart of the Greens’ message is a contempt and hatred for the human race.

...


http://www.anxietycenter.com/climate/earth.htm

[Pericles]

Tuesday, February 19, 2008
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2008/02/selling-snake-oil.html]Selling snake-oil

Analysts, we are told, foresee a boom in carbon emissions trading by 2020 as the EU prepares to include new sectors in its Emissions Trading Scheme (EU-ETS). The United States' accession to a similar system, it is felt, appears increasingly inevitable.

The value of the global carbon market shot up by 80 percent in 2007, with some 2.7 billion tons of CO2 credits, worth €40.4 billion, changing hands, in a sign of growing enthusiasm for the carbon trading industry among companies and investors world-wide.

Small wonder that, as the gravy train gathers speed, Sony, Nike, Nokia and nine other multinational companies have signed a declaration in support of a 50 percent reduction in global greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. There's money in that there "carbon".

...

Read the comments section.:D

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2008/02/selling-snake-oil.html

[safewalrus]

God Pericles can you cackle! "Got more rabb** than Sainsbury's, why don't you give it a rest!" to use the words of the old song!!

If not hows about short bursts - long drawn out monotalogues really do nothing for your cause - whatever that is!

[Pericles]

Safe, No worries.:D

You must have perused them though, in order to bother to comment. :D :D :D

Pericles

[charmc]

long drawn out monotalogues really do nothing for your cause - whatever that is!

He's posting articles, Safie. Means he read 'em, offers them for you to read. OK if you don't want to (or can't :P :P). No problem.

Some good data, though. Interesting that all the scientific research papers I've read on every other subject present a theory, give a lot of reproducible supporting data, and draw conclusions supporting the theory, usually including words like "data suggests" "observations thusfar support the theory", and "additional research will be necessary before drawing any firm conclusions", etc. I tend to think that those on either side of the global warming debate who claim they've got it all figured out are purely pissing in the wind.

[Pericles]

Charlie,

Whilst there's still wine in the bottle, I'll stay at my post, although the swimming pool will have its way with me in the morning. I gave my word to my doctor that I will swim over 3 miles per week and that nearly 250 lengths where I go. Slice of cake really, as it takes only 90 minutes to knock out 60 lengths. A perfect reason for a glass or two of fermented grape juice m'thinks!

I distrust all those who claim the planet in in peril. The planet is not in peril, but some forms of life, including we clever apes, may be wiped out by a cataclysmic event of some kind. We exist within an Interglacial Period and, in my opinion, we as a species, have done nothing to justify an intervention from non existent supernatural beings who would view us, as we view the snot on a Kleenex after a very satisfying blow. We came, we saw, we disappeared! The planet will continue spinning, on its axis, in its orbit, around the sun, for another 5 billion years. Humans will be long gone, having not survived in any significant numbers after the next Ice Age that has just started its return.

Still, that's no reason why we shouldn't party.:P :P :P :P :P :P

Regards,

Perry

[Kay9]

Way I see it. Its happened before, it will happen again. I cant see us having any affect one way or the other.

K9

[charmc]

I have mixed feelings. I tend to believe that man's impact is small, but then I read about pelagic fish stocks depleted by drift nets 10 miles long, and huge rafts of plastics drifting in the oceans, and the millions of tons of toxics in combustion gases ... and I wonder and worry.

I read that a single volcanic eruption can put more toxic pollutants in the atmosphere than all manmade sources in a year. Elsewhere I read that manmade atmospherice pollutants are more than 100 times greater than volcanic. Then I read that both numbers are statistical estimates, developed by PhDs, and that both sides claim careful analysis and development of their models.

:( :( :confused: :confused:

[Kay9]

I was the captain on an oceanographic research vessel for 5 years.

One day we fished out a glass fishing float that had been drifting around the Pacific for 20 years. Upon landing the fishing float on the deck the 2 chief scientists onboard took one look at all the goseneck barnacles and both in unison exclaimed "Oh what are those??!"

My response was. "You have to be f'ning kidding me right? They are only, about the most, abundant life in the ocean."

To which they said. "We spend all of our time at the University studing the ocean. We cant be expected to know about all the life out here."

Leaving I think I said something like. "You could look off a f'ing dock once in a while, at least then you would know what a gooseneck barnecle is!"

Thats a no shitter.

K9

[safewalrus]

there's non so blind as them as will not see!! methinks!!

[charmc]

Amazing, isn't it?

I was asked once by a project engineer if one of their systems could be turned on its side to fit into an air shipping container. I said no because they used a multistage vertical pump with the motor on top. If turned on its side, all the weight would be cantilevered and the frame was not strong enough to take that stress. I got a blank look and a plaintive "What does cantilevered mean?"

Another time I was talking with the engineer in charge of design of a multimillion dollar municipal water treatment system. When I began asking questions about the technology they were recommending, she got very annoyed and said, "I don't know anything about water treatment. I'm the project manager." :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[PAR]

Humans have impacted the waters of the world more then anything else by a wide margin. The air is self cleaning, but the abilities of the oceans to support life has been dramatically harvested (not reduced). Fresh water in particular has been affected so dramatically that less then 1% is safe to drink and it's ability to support life drastically reduced.

Given 20 years of uninterrupted molestation, the fish populations would come back and the fresh water supply would clean up substantially, but this assumes responsibility of humans, which isn't likely in the near future.

Humans are more akin to a virus then an intelligent species, consuming, altering and destroying everything in sight until they've eating and toyed themselves out of house, home and food supply. A fitting result in the Petri dish of life, if you ask me.

After 100 years of non-human intervention, little would be recognizable of society. In 1000 years, no record that man ever existed would be visible without a shovel, including our cities, which would become the mystery burial mounds of our existence, found by some archeologist a few thousand millennium later, in the world's history.

[kach22i]

This guy thinks like I do.:D

The Hovercraft and Global Climate Change
http://www.jameshovercraft.co.uk/hover/mainpages/index.htm
The weather is big in the news of today. All the time we're seeing floods due to snowmelt, or unseasonal rainfall, even sea level rise. This doesn't just affect "3rd world" countries like (for example) Bangladesh and African countries, it also has an equally devastating effect potentially on "1st world countries" like the US, UK, European countries.

There's not a lot we can do about it.

Therefore we have to find ways to cope with what might happen in perhaps 10 years down the line when our towns built on river deltas or reclaimed land start to flood.

Imagine the possible environment for a moment. Roads will be useless, because they'll be flooded and muddy. Well, travel by boat then, you might say. No, because the water's too shallow for a powerboat, too muddy and full of reeds for propellers to operate in. So, what's the answer? Well, in my view, there's only one transport method that can really provide a cheap, and versatile means of moving around, that being of course, the hovercraft. It's been around for years, over 40 in fact, on a large scale, yet few people use them to get around.

I'm not saying that the old behemoths like the SRN4 should be reinvented for mass public transportation, but smaller craft like those offered by Griffon, Hover-Shuttle, and Australian Hovercraft (to name but a few companies) would be ideal.

Already, craft built by Griffon are in use by the British RNLI (Royal National Lifeboat Institute) on the mud flats in and around the UK, river estuaries, tidal bays and so on, and have saved many lives. These are small craft, about 6-8 seaters, which can go over land, sea, and mud.

They're a success! Is this what we need in the future? Is this what we need now? Only time will tell, but in my opinion it could well be better to be safe than sorry.

James Rowson

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[charmc]

This guy thinks like I do.:D

The Hovercraft and Global Climate Change

George,

Why am I reminded of that saying about the carpenter who sees all the world's problems as nails? :P :D

[masalai]

Even GoogleEarth in its latest release, has recognised the probability of climate change by including an option to see what happens with sea level increases in 1m increments to 100m (using an imaginary timeline), so you can see where your home/neighbourhood sits when the "tide comes in" with the melting of all land borne ice.

[Pericles]

Masalai,

More importantly, does it show the results of the next Ice Age. The British Isles were populated by people who moved out of their refuge in Spain about 15000 years ago and walked up the extended coastline to Ireland? That was when the present Interglacial began.

http://books.google.com/books?id=tJkyAAAACAAJ&dq=%22Blood+of+the+Isles%22&ei=fbIKR9r0FqOOpwLs0YDTCA

There weren't so many people then. Where will 450 million Europeans go when the ice returns. Quietly into the dark? I do not think so. Not with their combined military might. The African continent will become Europe's Ice Age refuge and if the present 990 million inhabitants do not welcome the European forces?

http://www.usadaily.com/article.cfm?articleID=265816

2000 years before the big walk north to what became the British Isles, the people we call Solutreans lived in and around the same region.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solutrean

It is proposed that some Solutreans were perhaps minded to set off west along the edge of the Atlantic ice sheet, travelling in a manner similar to that which some of the Inuit can still do, thus arriving in North America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solutrean_hypothesis

Volcanoes erupt and the ground shakes continuously all around the world and these events impact human life daily. It's self evident humans should be more concerned about another like this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory

Did you want to live forever?

kach22i, be careful what you wish for. "Roads will be useless, because they'll be flooded and muddy." Where will you drive your Porsche? :P :P :P

Regards to all,

Pericles

[masalai]

Anyone who claims to predict when AND what AND where AND why is a flippinging liar &/or absolute fool, and to claim two or more cannot scientifically be relied upon. I am not a God (and therefore, I don't know) and nor I submit do they know.

All I have done is say IF this melts that is the resultant water level.... That is within human capacity to determine, as it is mathematical in determination.... How much volume is in the ice held above sea level - on land. Easy to do.

What to look for if that event is likely to happen - look for a rate of water flow caused by melting ice, as opposed to the replenishment rate.... Again easy to determine and calculate. Easy to do.... After the event has started to dribble (some evidence exists to indicate this has started to happen) on Greenland.

When is the "point of total melt unstoppable".... Only God knows, and we as humans may postulate that it is likely to completely melt and if it does so at the expectation that the rate of melt will be consistent, should take x years....

Some brave people have postulated that "...if the 'irreversible condition' is reached then it may take some 10 years from then, we guess...."

That is sufficient to make some plans to cover the "unknown" what if situations, and due diligence behoves us to consider that....

Denial is your business, don't expect religious conversion to that view...

You may postulate that an ice age is due..... So what.... What preparations do you consider appropriate for that prospect (based on repetitive history), but no other affirmative process? apart from some very selective temperature history. Lets see who is wrong/right?

[Pericles]

Masalai,

"Climate change" is now the preferred terminology rather than "Global Warming", because of the uncertainty as to what is happening.

The term "global warming" is a specific example of climate change, which can also refer to global cooling. In common usage, the term refers to recent warming and implies a human influence.[11] The United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) uses the term "climate change" for human-caused change, and "climate variability" for other changes.[12] The term "anthropogenic global warming" is sometimes used when focusing on human-induced changes.

Attribution of recent climate change is the effort to scientifically ascertain mechanisms responsible for relatively recent changes observed in the Earth's climate. The effort has focused on changes observed during the period of instrumental temperature record, when records are most reliable; particularly on the last 50 years, when human activity has grown fastest and observations of the upper atmosphere have become available. (Wikipedia)

As I see it, people hold differing views on the subject, some almost as religiously as they believe their gods. As I am an atheist, I am not that connected to mass hysteria, so I tend to look for the hook inside the bait. Why are you so concerned as to where the water will rise?

As you pointed out, we can only wait and watch, however you should know that the conjecture during the 1970s of imminent cooling of the Earth's surface and atmosphere, could be brought to the fore again, if the sunspot activity does not pick up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling

You asked about preparations. With that in mind, here is a chance to take the bookies to the cleaners, big time! Place a bet for temperature drop, based on the information at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalton_Minimum

The odds you could get should be astronomical and assuming they are still in business when we have ice breakers up the River Thames, the money would pay for a pretty decent fortress somewhere warm, whilst the greens freeze their nuts off.:D :D :D :D :D :D

I'll be signing off now, I have to see William Hill about a small bet. :D

All the best,

Pericles

[masalai]

Pericles,
Am I going blind too, I cannot find where I mentioned the phrase "Climate Change" or "Global Warming", per se. - - Which May make me "off topic"... but then the content was addressing BOTH those implications - I think???????

[Pericles]

Mas,

Don't worry about that. Have you placed your bet yet? The odd are shortening as I type.

Pericles

[masalai]

That is not bet-able - it is a foregone conclusion, I am actioning it, my interpretation, as the data supporting that position is more conservative & reliable.

My wife is taking the "tree-change" option above 150m and acreage.... Australia's landmass, as the oldest world surface is eroded and fairly barren. It is only on the coastal fringes where regular rains over the eons have encouraged a build-up of biomass, and to a lesser extent the old-growth forested areas.

[artemis]

"What if" is a game for kings and philosophers. Since I am neither I'll just plod along and, when not in use, keep my boat near the front door (which is a little over 300' above the Columbia River). :P :D

[masalai]

Ahhhh Arte, new waterfront residence, well selected.....:D and if "hell freezes over I hope a good supply of trees for firewood?

[artemis]

Ahhhh Arte, new waterfront residence, well selected.....:D and if "hell freezes over I hope a good supply of trees for firewood?

Lots of trees, both evergreen and deciduous, and since the boat is steam powered and can burn wood... :D

[masalai]

I see you are having an each way bet and will win either way!:D

[brian eiland]

An Inconvenient Truth", the climate change documentary that's been promoted by Nobel laureate Al Gore, has received mixed reviews from the global audience.

Regardless of whether or not you've seen the "Gore movie" or what you're already inclined to believe about oil and climate related issues, I highly recommend Crude: a new two-hour documentary that was aired earlier today on The History Channel. This is an unequivocally rave review. Crude scores 11 on a scale of 1 to 10.

I don't see anything new in terms of oil and climate related issues and concerns, but the program explains the science (much of it recent) behind terms like "peak oil", "greenhouse climate" and "global warming" in the most engaging way I've seen to date.

Cross reference this new posting:
"CRUDE" oil, an absolute must see program !!! (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21427)

[safewalrus]

Climate Change? sorry guys but in my limited experience the climate is changing every day - dry today, wet tomorrow, hot the day after, cold after that - the next couple of weeks are enough (to guess) for the moment never mind what might happen in 200 years time FFS!:eek:

[Richard Atkin]

People talk about climate change like it's something that will sneak up on us and we won't know what to do. All this scare-mongering is rediculous. Humans are adaptable, and we have LOADS of time to make more observations of the weather. "Act now before it's too late". Before what??? Before the world comes to an end? Yeah right. No-one is going to die as a direct result of global warming or cooling. If people die, it will be due to politics and economics which have been carefully calculated.

We have PLENTY of time to sit back and wait until we can see a clearer picture of the climate's trend. China is pumping greenhouse gases into the atmosphere....but it's also getting rich and that is good for the Chinese people. Maybe when they are rich enough to start cleaning up without crippling their prosperity, they will do so.

In my english class we were taught a well used technique in advertising and propoganda. "Get people to think they don't have time to think"

[safewalrus]

Climate makes weather, weather makes climate they are interrelated! Agree with one thing tho' Dick the scare mongering is ridiculious, however thousands will die because of global warming / cooling don't know were don't know when but die they will!

So China is pumping greenhouse gases into the atmosphere and this is good for the Chinee because it is making some of them rich!! IN THE SHORT TERM! In the ling term this will no doubt kill them, no problem save the fact that it will probably kill us to! But this ain't nothing to do with climate change it's all to do with POLLUTION!

[longliner45]

well my 2 cents ,,,,,I will simply ask a question,,,,why is mars getting hotter and loseing its polar caps also?

[Kay9]

Martians are using WAY too much oil. It why the pice is up to 110$ a barrel also.

K9

[rambat]

Pericles why must you bait the fanatics? When I was young I was taught that the would was quickly becoming overpopulated, It was well established by university AND government experts, the debate was over. You and I should be wrestling shoulder to shoulder, on a glacier, with Chi-coms over scraps of soilent green by now!

If any power source more efficient or cheaper than fossil fuels come along it will be used in power hungry aircraft, and I don't see Boeing or Airbus offering hybrid wide bodies as of yet. They are incredible backlogged by more than a few sales to the middle east. You would think if the oil sheiks had their facts straight they would be investing in inland property. Instead they are building Islands, barely above sea level for decadent westerners flown in. I like the way they think.

All of this human hating pap always leads back to some "universal" dictation on our lives and lifestyles by an elite with no such controls. This elite would realize that being elected was sooo 19th century, and the debate would be over.

[Sean Herron]

Hello...

Stop exhaling and don't fart - that - and kite sails on super tankers - and Rambat on good weed - should sell more OREO's all around...

I want to finger paint with Rambat - and eat and share some Musilage paste - with him and all the first graders - I am imagining Veronica Zemanova in a pencil skirt...

Then I want to do a show and tell - before lunch naptime...

Ah - that could get weird...

Are you a complete juvenile romantic - that has no perspective on the various methods of industrial revolution (per inherent available fuels) that have taken place within the last 2000 years - and of the players and of the Families that rule same...

Broad and romantic ideas have already been argued - you are very late onto the scene...

Burps and farts need to be studied so we can establish an accurate percentage against some random or made up - scale - I believe this to be important...

Rambat - I imagine that you have origami instructions for a Popeye hat...

SH.

[Pericles]

Longliner,

A possible explanation.

In a paper published in the journal Nature, she suggests that such winds can stir up giant dust storms, trapping heat and raising the planet’s temperature.

Fenton’s team unearthed heat maps of the Martian surface from Nasa’s Viking mission in the 1970s and compared them with maps gathered more than two decades later by Mars Global Surveyor. They found there had been widespread changes, with some areas becoming darker.

When a surface darkens it absorbs more heat, eventually radiating that heat back to warm the thin Martian atmosphere: lighter surfaces have the opposite effect. The temperature differences between the two are thought to be stirring up more winds, and dust, creating a cycle that is warming the planet.

Pericles

[Sean Herron]

Hello...

Them are big words - no doubt - but if I drop my Snickers while on my way to campus - am I a total loser...

Quit your jibber jabber and get some nuts - see http://youtube.com/watch?v=NySN_plfiNI ...

What a bunch of - WANKERS - I bet you row - and feel all good inside about same...

When a surface darkens it gets hot - hehe- no **** - that was Buck Rogers - hell - Buck Fuller - mid 60's - we all thank you for allowing us to wallow in your vast vat of common knowledge...

**** - that must have cost you one year in the USA establishment - before you were allowed to clean toilets for the NAVY....

Be very quiet - soon he will tell us how to rectify microwaves and how to fly surveillance hotdogs...

SH.

[Frosty]

I like Sundays,---Sean spends more time with us.

[longliner45]

sean ,,I was wondering>............can you sell me some of your pot???longliner

[Richard Atkin]

longliner I didn't know that. Very interesting point. (referring to Mars heating up)

Walrus, there are many deformed newborn babies in China. This is because their mothers are malnourished, eating rice and almost nothing else.

when China and every other country becomes first world, there won't be any more starvation. Nobody starves in a first world country unless they want to, or there is a war. Machines and modern techniques make food production more efficient, housing more efficient etc etc.

We need to worry more about helping poor countries to get efficient, before we start getting freaked out about global warming.

quote: "thousands will die because of global warming / cooling don't know were don't know when but die they will!"

Probably mostly old people who are on the brink of death anyway. Every summer in Sydney, heaps of old people are found dead in their beds whenever there is a heat wave. They refuse to open their windows cos they are scared of burglars. They start to feel tired cos the air becomes thin in their house. They go to bed and pull the blankets over their body and quickly pass out and never wake up.
They put campaigns on the radio to try to warn people about this, but it still happens over and over again. We should be more concerned about the deformed babies, cruelty to animals, Africans killing each other, chemical and nuclear weapons.....you know...worse stuff that's happening now.

Hang on....if the world is getting hotter....that means more waterspouts. It's easy to see a hurricane forming, so you can just avoid it. But waterspouts? Hmmmm. Those things will suck your boat in!! (all the wind travels towards the spout). Maybe global warming is important after all.

[masalai]

Wow, if it can suck my boat off - Who needs Monica L.? - Let the storms come over me!!!! Oooops thought it must have been drivel thread?

[Sean Herron]

Hello...

Fish - they stink and they are fast and thus hard for us homo sapien asses to catch - so god stuffed their asses into the waters...

But cows are big - stupid - and slow - and they taste good when put onto fire...

This picture seems obvious to me - stinky and fast - versus - dumb and delicious...

It is all about the fire...

So why am I working on a fish hauler...:)

SH.

[Frosty]

Sean,--have you met Richard.

Water spouts and old people dying because they wont open a window?

Yes fish are a lot different from cows, but you have to know where to look.

I think a lot of people die because they laugh so hard there head fell off and all the time they blamed it on global warming softening the neck skin.

I shall open my window tonight.

[Pericles]

Once again, I am here to bait the fanatics on the subject on icebreakers up the River Thames. I give you Chris Booker in the Sunday Telegraph who, in unambiguous terms, spells out the reversal in fortune for the gullible followers of fashion. I mean the believers in the fallacy of human powered global warming.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/02/24/do2402.xml

Apart from the incredible ***king waste of money that Albert Arnold "It's galling to be wrong" Gore Junior would have the world's richest nations spend, for me personally, the real issue is that when I am awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, its worth will have been so devalued, Ill be too ashamed to go and collect it. :D :D

Why the sodding hell people listened to the unctuous prick is beyond me. OTOH, Chris Booker has an explanation for that as well. Polifukinticians!

Up to 3,000 tonnes of fish have frozen to death in seas off Taiwan due to unseasonably cold weather. 23 Feb 20

http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?scope=all&edition=d&q=fish+frozen+in+sea&go=Search

Fresh frozen fish anyone?

Pericles

[rambat]

Its Sunday and I am feeling a need for redemption, I asked for it when opening my previous comment by name calling. It would also seem that I am for the status quo, which I am not. Frosty is very right, who are we to believe? scientist or Taxi drivers (no slight intended). So here is my "Bucket List" that I am sure we can all find common ground on and perhaps allow me to remain a positive part of this forum,

Before I pass on, I would like to see:

1. A future of guilt free western civilized existence, whereby every gallon or KW required does not help support tyranny and oppression somewhere else.

2. That a respected group of scientist arise we can trust not to bias there findings for funding or political motives.

3. That alternative energies become more widespread, cleaner and even positive for our natural surroundings.

4. That if global warming does occur, the consequences be balanced for allowing much of the once frozen global acreage of tundra to become arable and reduce the energy used up to warm people and places now fridged.

One gentleman in NY is blazing the trail toward one solution without much backpedaling to our western way of life, this is a must see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEdQRVQtffw

I have now been on the receiving end of Sean's vitriol but also glowing comments regarding my design postings. So I cannot say he is without taste. I hope to visit his island one day but know well to bring my own booze.

[safewalrus]

Walrus, there are many deformed newborn babies in China. This is because their mothers are malnourished, eating rice and almost nothing else.

when China and every other country becomes first world, there won't be any more starvation. Nobody starves in a first world country unless they want to, or there is a war. Machines and modern techniques make food production more efficient, housing more efficient etc etc.



You can only improve food production so much - if you ain't got the raw material you can't do a damn thing! If you start with ten beans no matter how you mess with them you end up with ten beans, unless you destroy them.



quote: "thousands will die because of global warming / cooling don't know were don't know when but die they will!"



I ain't getting paranoid about this, it's a statement of fact is all - I really don't give a damn, there ain't a lot I can do about it anyway!


Oh, and Ramit don't forget 'soylant green' is people! so every one you kill goes on the butchers slab; maybe you and dick could get together on this one and look after a few heathen chinee!!!!!!!;)

[Richard Atkin]

Walrus....Chinese people are starting to import food now. Economics. The place is getting better, despite the temporary pollution.

My home town (Wellington) got hit by a huge waterspout a few days ago. It started at sea, as they do, and made it all the way to the beach and just veered away from land, just when everyone started to panic and run. Then it faded out. This is amazing for Wellington...infact, its amazing for NZ. Our climate is normally too stable to support tornadoes.

do I care? not really

[Richard Atkin]

Without meaning to sound unfeeling....I think dead people should be ground up and used as fertiliser. Really. It could be looked upon as grotesque, or it could be viewed as a beautiful step in the life cycle of mankind.

Not me though....I want to be frozen (Cryogenics?spelling?) until technology progresses and I will wake up and probably be horribly traumatised. Nothing to do with climate change...sorry.

[longliner45]

richard,,,china has seen a spike in newborn birth defects ,,,(probably because of thier newborn industry,,,,,,,no osha ,,no epa,,,dumping toxic waste where ever it is conviniant ,,govt corruption ,,,I will go on to say we have all gone through this as a learning expieriance(we now understand the term (mad hatters),,because they used mercury to finish the hats,,we learned from this ,,and so will china,,,but what is appaling is that ,,,now they know and continue to keep going,,,,,,as the same for american automakers taking jobs to mexico ,to avoid health rules,,like they know in USA not to dump waste en our rivers ,,but in mexico it is ok,,,so their birth rate of handycpped children ,continues to climband this is done by companys that know the facts and risk ,,like general motors chrysler and so on,,I say this online and in open view of all ,,,,,,because they know they are guilty of this,,by the way did anyone catch hillary ? saying she was goiing to fix the nafta problem?her husband approved nafta,,,,,,,,and made it law ,,,,,longliner ..one more thing ,,ciggeret sales to 3rd world countrys is through the roof,we know they kill ..(with a slow MISERABLE death )and the commercials target the young,but do they know what we know ,,in thialand ,,china mexico indonesia ,vietnam,ect ,,ect? longliner

[Jimbo1490]

PAR's assertions about the REAL peril to the environment, which is the double whammy of serious overfishing combined with estuarine (think fish nurseries) destruction is the thing we should be worried about. But instead we spin our wheels worried to death over the hobgoblin of global warming.

But his subsequent rant

"Humans are more akin to a virus then an intelligent species, consuming, altering and destroying everything in sight until they've eating and toyed themselves out of house, home and food supply. A fitting result in the Petri dish of life, if you ask me."

is just the purest Malthusian balderdash. I think he was actually quoting agent Smith from the Matrix:D

All these sorts of predictions spouted by lefty green types are purely philosophical ravings, devoid of any scientific merit. The massive food shortage predicted by the Malthusian leftists never happened. As a percentage, far fewer people starve today than ever before, despite prodigious population growth. And so it goes for numerous other life-quality factors such as air quality, deforestation and etc.

It must be very frustrating for them that the very thing they hate so much, namely human industrialization, is the very thing that has made it possible for the planet to carry more and more human inhabitants with a decreasing per capita environmental impact 'footprint'.

Imagine if we all still burned wood to cook and keep warm. How much pollution would that produce??!! Yet the greens rave on about evil fossil fuels, which can be burned so cleanly, virtually all you get for smoke is water and CO2. No problem for them, though. They just trump up a case against CO2:rolleyes: More on that later.

What if we could only use organic (antiquated) farming methods as virtually all the greens demand? Do you think we could have re-forested much of the earth as we have done over the past century, again despite many more mouths to feed?

On the whole CO2 causing climate change thing, it has been famously asserted that there is no "serious scientific opposition" to the idea that CO2 is driving climate change, and that anthropogenic CO2 is the scale tipper. I dare anyone to watch the video of this lecture and still come away with no doubts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOLkze-9GcI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN06JSi-SW8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCXDISLXTaY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQQGFZHSno&feature=related


If you are a "true believer" then of course you will be unhindered by any of these facts. That's OK. I understand, really. But even given that the assertions about anthropogenic global warming are true, doesn't it make sense to use the best possible approach to the 'problem', not the knee-jerk reaction? So just what is the best approach, the one that will produce the best result (REAL sustainable reductions in carbon emissions) for the least cost and pain? Have you ever even seen a cost-benefit analysis of competing solutions? Or is only one solution ever even considered, namely "we must force mandatory cuts in carbon emissions NOW!!" Watch the next video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtbn9zBfJSs

Jimbo

[masalai]

Oh dear, everyone seems to be getting tooooo excited. utube is a nice place to be entertained, as I implied long ago, peer (or even Par) review and supportable & repeatable experiments etc to prove hypothesis please.

Else preface each para with IMHO - (In my honest opinion) or in my case, CFSR - "Communist Fish sources report....." or something similar if it is a "red-herring", one is throwing into the midst of a debate......

I concur with your proposition that if you seek to restrain an activity then one must propose an alternative which will not generate a backward step - well a little in reverse is OK for excessive consumption septics & affiliates...:D

Also on this net, I saw today, was a utube on a guy who had solarised his home with typical American excess - Solar, Hydrogen, Battery & mains grid - Quad redundancy whereas most of his countrymen would be "dead in the water" if the electric or gas (petrol) supply stopped:D

I admire his dedication & thoroughness - on the basis of being a live-in demonstration site. and I congratulate him.

An exercise I put in motion on a pastoral (grazing) property which had a 3 cyl 27 hp kubota genset producing 240 V ac (standard for Australia) and had to be run for 2 x 4 hour sessions to keep the large refrigeration - cool storage room - (walk in refrigerator with freezer section) within temperature range. - - We added a bank of 20 x 12 v batteries to be charged by direct rectification of the 240v and had a 240 v inverter added so that the power-supply became available 24/7:D - - - The Kubota genset was then set to auto-start to keep the batteries up and then ran only 1 hour a day!!!! giving access to a lot of other niceties on demand.

The other perk which was not implemented but "in-process" was a capacity to parallel the battery derived power source with the kubota genset to drive a big welder & some other heavy power need stuff which was not used...

The next step was to fit photovoltaic solar panels to meet the load used. I do not know if that was done.....

[Jimbo1490]

Oh dear, everyone seems to be getting tooooo excited. utube is a nice place to be entertained, as I implied long ago, peer (or even Par) review and supportable & repeatable experiments etc to prove hypothesis please.

The lecture I referenced is by a reputable scientist and numerous peer-reviewed journal papers are cited verbally, if you care to jot them down for cross-checking of facts.

The sloppiness, exaggerations and even outright dishonesty that has been uncovered recently in so-called 'peer reviewed' journals on the topic under discussion is one of the most striking points discussed in the lecture.

[masalai]

Not pointed at anyone, I was fishing for red fish? I did not visit those you cited Jimbo, utube sites after 2 they seem to lock, &/or I get distracted by some of the advertised "worlds funniest" etc.....:D

[Jimbo1490]

Agent Smith from the movie "The Matrix":

I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure.

Sounds just like PARS's rant, huh?:D

[Richard Atkin]

Human beings use up a TINY amount of the available land that is ideal for growing crops and building houses. We are multiplying?? We've barely started.
Starvation, over-crowding, and deforestation are just the result of politics and economics. We are greedy and selfish...but we are not a virus destroying the world. There is plenty of 'world' left. We have time to learn to be more responsible. Some people just love the idea of a dooms day, because they are not very happy with their life. These people shouldn't stand in the way of those who are more optimistic.

[charmc]

Without meaning to sound unfeeling....I think dead people should be ground up and used as fertiliser.

That's the purpose of burial. There have been exceptions in ancient times, such as the royal families of Egypt, but in general, people's bodies have been placed in the earth as a natural part of the cycle of life. Many cultures include language about the bodies of the deceased providing sustinence for new life as part of the burial ceremony. This is true even in the Christian era. I came across a family plot contract from the 1930's. It included a description of the fact that multiple generations could all be buried in the same plot, since bodies and wooden caskets would fully decompose and be absorbed into the soil within some period of years (I forget how many). fancy metal caskets and concrete vaults are aberations concocted to increase the profits of the funeral director industry.

[masalai]

I am all for effective re-cycling - returned to the domain of Davey Jones...

[alan white]

It's all good. Very emotional subject.
A lot of people justify their hypocritical behavior by manufacturing either an alarming situation or insisting there is absolutely nothing of any importance to worry about. In truth, we use our strong views to explain ourselves to ourselves in a way that makes us comfortable.
If we see almost no global destruction of air, land, or sea resources, we can more easily be comfortable with our inefficient and wasteful lifestyles.
If we become apologists for man's existence on Earth, seeing all of man's exploits as unnatural and likely destructive, we are probably only trying to become comfortable with the fact that we see man, and hence ourselves, as helpless victims who need to be taken care of.
We seldom stay quiet and just live our lives as if only our own acts matter. It's always easier to see the perceived problem as solvable by others.
Of course, others are doing the same, which is why things do get out of hand.
A few days ago, a friend and I were talking about the sad lot of people like us, tradesmen who could barely afford medical insurance, who struggled to pay every bill, who lived in a depressed area with high taxes and low wages.
Then I said, "Of course, WE personally are clever enough to survive such a predicament. We really are talking about OTHER people (apparantly) like us... who we know nothing about."
My friend nodded. "Yeah", he admitted. "That's actually true."

Alan

[whipper]

We have been in global cooling for the last two years hear also. When sombody is telling you something for profit you must know its a lie!{Gore} I have 4ft of snow in the front yard still today!! The ice on the lakes is 4 ft deep and we had a ice jam on the Nechaco river that broke the 200 year flood plain and the walls of ice are 20ft high. Ya thats global warming alright! Like was mentioned buy a hovercraft and switch to electric heat because the shortage of oil is sending it to 150-200 a barrel but the rivers will flow strong. Stay warm and burn your garbage your self.

[alan white]

We have been in global cooling for the last two years hear also.

It's anticipated, no doubt, that almost 50% of the areas on the planet are cooling. A little over 50% are warming.
When it rains a lot in your town, do you call your broker to invest in London Fog? Of course not.
I see no one here who really could intelligently argue the finer points of the issue. It would be like a group of climatologists debating the question of whether lifting keels are seaworthy.
The only thing (regarding global warming) we can talk about intelligently is who we can trust to study the issue dispassionately. All of our conclusions would then be best guesses (and not really conclusions), based on who we believe. If we did that, it seems very unlikely we'd get very emotional about the issue.
I see no reason to think Al Gore is lying to make himself rich. I could more easily imagine him simply mistaken or not mistaken, or somewhere in between.

Alan

[safewalrus]

Its a known fact that when you plant a tree you plant a 'body' under it as it improves the growth of the tree! What kind of body doesn't really matter as long as it's dead (if not it soon will be)!

[Richard Atkin]

Scientists who study the earth's climate, the earth's age, the age of fossils and other remains, the age of the universe, the size of the universe......

Well...I think most of them are just massaging their own egos. They have already found remains (including ancient human) that totally contradict their theories on the timing of evolution. Perhaps we are a much older species than we thought. The universe is expanding. What universe? All we can see is a tiny pin point of a universe. It could be radically different to what we expect to see beyond our telescopes. Perhaps we are living in a particular pocket of the universe that supports life. This may be one of many pockets that are all floating in a sea of chaotic jelly, which is hanging from a giant nose. Perhaps I should do the math to prove this!!!

Dooms day scientists like to use algebra...using the known variables to work out the unknown variables. Only problem is...many of the 'known' variables are actually theoretical. What a waste of time. (try telling them that).

They should just continue with the work that is actually worth while. (like flying men to Mars. That would make a good TV show).

Alan White, if my argument doesn't sound very intelligent, read it again. Sometimes it's better to be dumb so you can see the bigger picture.

Here's the BIGGEST picture of all: If we want people to be more caring, then we need to understand the cause and cure for Neurosis, and then work with that knowledge.

[the1much]

i wanna lay bets,,,,i bet no matter what, we all end up dead,,,no matter what, the earth WILL come to an end,,,and i also bet that if you asked 100 people ( all of whom i choose heh ) 80 of em will say anyone that calls people doing ,whatever they do to keep us all round jus a little longer"lefty green type" gay,,,< donts get nancy on me i mean happy,joyful ;)
but people that think and say things like that usually say things even dumber,,;)

[alan white]

Scientists who study the earth's climate, the earth's age, the age of fossils and other remains, the age of the universe, the size of the universe......

Well...I think most of them are just massaging their own egos. They have already found remains (including ancient human) that totally contradict their theories on the timing of evolution. Perhaps we are a much older species than we thought. The universe is expanding. What universe? All we can see is a tiny pin point of a universe. It could be radically different to what we expect to see beyond our telescopes. Perhaps we are living in a particular pocket of the universe that supports life. This may be one of many pockets that are all floating in a sea of chaotic jelly, which is hanging from a giant nose. Perhaps I should do the math to prove this!!!

Dooms day scientists like to use algebra...using the known variables to work out the unknown variables. Only problem is...many of the 'known' variables are actually theoretical. What a waste of time. (try telling them that).

They should just continue with the work that is actually worth while. (like flying men to Mars. That would make a good TV show).

Alan White, if my argument doesn't sound very intelligent, read it again. Sometimes it's better to be dumb so you can see the bigger picture.

Here's the BIGGEST picture of all: If we want people to be more caring, then we need to understand the cause and cure for Neurosis, and then work with that knowledge.

The cause of neurosis is self-disagreement. Self-disagreement comes of wanting ones cake but wanting to eat it too. Unable to agree with oneself, the psyche splits into a cake-eater and a cake-saver, each of which is certain that it knows what to do with a cake.
Neither side ever really knows anything of value since each is always missing half of the picture.

[Frosty]

I think your right you could very easily find 100 people that would say dumb things. But your cheating you live in Texas.. Bit more difficult anywhere else.

Hey isnt that where George Brush comes from. He could be number 1.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :p :p :D :D

Too much cake eating will make you nausious.

[alan white]

I think your right you could very easily find 100 people that would say dumb things. But your cheating you live in Texas.. Bit more difficult anywhere else.

Hey isnt that where George Brush comes from. He could be number 1.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :p :p :D :D

Too much cake eating will make you nausious.

"Fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice, shame on you" (Famous Bush quote).

[Frosty]

Eh?

Thats wrong --or is it supposed to be,---im confused.

[alan white]

Naw--- I had it wrong. The actual "correct" quote is seen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ux3DKxxFoM

[the1much]

i'm confused,,,,,can my wife have her cake,,,,then i can eat her< i was talking bout cannibalism jeff,,,not pervy eat hehe ,,,,is that having ya cake and eating it to?
and frosty,,,,it is hard finding that many dumb people in texas,,,,half of em can only say eeeeeeeeeeerrrrup,,,,and hoooooorsey heh ;)
and they say bush is from here,,,,but daddy and mommy spent most their time in maine like they do now,,,,(notice how the dumbness seems to entrap me whereva i go ),,and thats where present day superbush got his first,,,,and second driving while drunk tickets,,,,,,and over a dozen tickets for being a plain idiot ;)

[Frosty]

What Bush is a drunk driver,---cant be all bad then.

A dozen tickets for being an idiot? Wow thats impressive.

How come all your presidents seem to be a dork. I mean we have dorks but they seem to be a dork after they get in but in the good ole US of A they are dorks before they get in. Do you like dorks. I like em too but not in charge of nucila stuff.

I heard Brush the other day stumble over the word nuclear, after er er er he chose atomic weapons. What a dork.

[alan white]

Newk-ya-ler. Not newk-lee-er. Like your Tems river, cause the king couldn't say Thames. We have a Thames river in Connecticutt, and it's pronounced Thames, not Tems.

[longliner45]

yea frosty they start out as dorks,,,,,,,and proceed to become dumbasses,,,look at hillary,,she says she is going to fix nafta ,,,,,,didnt her husband shove that down my throught?,we may appear stupid ,,but not really,,hillary dont have a chance ,,it will be between Obama and Mc cain,longliner45

[Frosty]

I dont like Hillary, although I like women as leaders--shes a cry baby,--thats acting to most people. Oh im crying sniff sniff thats because I am caring and sensative so I will make a good President.

No one is going to fall for that crap ,--are they?

Thats what I mean you septics love a good act.

Reagan geeeez, an old cowboy---Arnold Swartsnigger,--bloody Rambo Why --Why-- they are actors?

Does'nt this embarrass you at all?

Arnold is not Even true American. You wait,-- hes young yet . He will run for President ,probably next term. Hes got the taste for it now.

Wouldnt surprise me in the slightest if Oprah didnt shuffle in.

And they all believe in God,an invisible power that made the Earth--thats the frightening bit. So why are we looking for life outside our planet. All religions say we were made by God.

God bless America. Oooops sorry wrong thread.

[PAR]

The fact that both Hillary and Obama are running, pretty much guarantee McCain will have a land slide victory. Leave it to the Democrats to play the sensationalism card (again), providing no other option for the party, which will leave it (the election) to McCain by default.

I've also never seen Matrix. It's not a movie type I would be interested in, but it's nice to see that a screen play writer is at least as bright as me with his plot twists or what ever the lines above were for. When you yell fire, it's generally wise to be pretty damn sure you home is burning first.

[tinhorn]

Does'nt this embarrass you at all?

Sure it does. THANKS FOR BRINGING IT UP. Now I gotta go get drunk.

When Bill Clinton was being impeached, a poll indicated that 70% of Americans said they shared his value system. I'm surrounded by riff-raff, apparently.

Ahnuld can't run for president if he wasn't born here. (Don't want to see you losing any money on ill-advised bets.) Nor could Kissinger back in the day, although I bet he would have loved to. When we lose Hillary's entertainment, we'll have Ralph Nader to fill the gap.

[charmc]

OK, all you guys had your fun making fun of us septics and our leaders. Now raise your hands if you feel you are privileged to have the fine quality leadership you have in your own country's government.

(Looks around slowly, waiting, giving everyone a chance ......). To paraphrase Frosty, "Hmmmmm. Not many hands up ..."

Ooops, that guy in the far corner, the North Korean. Has both hands up. What's he saying? Oh. "I love our Dear Leader, he is the best".

OK then.

[Frosty]

Ive just been studying the forum rules and it says quite clearly that when you get to 500 rep points you have to get the beer in !!!!.

[Richard Atkin]

Alan White Quote: "The cause of neurosis is self-disagreement. Self-disagreement comes of wanting ones cake but wanting to eat it too. Unable to agree with oneself, the psyche splits into a cake-eater and a cake-saver, each of which is certain that it knows what to do with a cake.
Neither side ever really knows anything of value since each is always missing half of the picture."

Just thought you might be curious to check out the following link:

http://andrewatkin3.googlepages.com/understandingmentalsickness

*Note: This is nothing to do with boat design.

Love from Andrew (Richard Atkin's brother).

[safewalrus]

If Arnold black wotsit can't be President of the USof A 'cos he wasn't born ther how come Washington made it?? He wasn't born there either!! Typical change the rules to suit - that's politicians for you!

Charlie this little old country (like America) has had some damn fine leaders - just not this century is all!!

[masalai]

Oh but which century? - - You know very well that over time, history is modified to make everyone look good - well nearly everyone:D

[safewalrus]

Probably the tenth, eleventh and twelveth - no bloody colonials to worry us back then, we could plunder all we wanted and not give a damn!!

[Pericles]

Gentlemen,

Apologies. I could not dissect the video from the article, so you'll have to read a bit. :D :D It's worth waiting for though! :D :D :D :D

Pericles

[Richard Atkin]

Did you know that dumb people are unable to recognise the difference between a dumb person who pretends to be intelligent, and a person who is actually intelligent?
A dumb person will believe that an intelligent person is someone who knows all the answers. If a person is running for president, he/she is taught to answer each question IMMEDIATELY. If there is more than a second of 'silent thinking time' after a question, then the dumb people will accuse the candidate of stalling or struggling, and therefore must be dumb....or hiding something. Dumb people don't pay much attention to the actual detail of what is being said. Instead, they focus more on the 'style' of the speaker.

This phenomena is well documented. Unfortunately, the people who would be best at running a country, are also the people who are most likely to screw up in front of the cameras.
Most people are dumbish, to downright dumb...and many are borderline retarded. This means that you can't really attack the president for being dumb. You have to blame the people who voted for him.

Democracy is not a perfect system.
This is why most countries, including the USA, do not function as a true democracy.

I am probably in the 'dumbish' category, because I hardly ever listen to politicians....and I am affected by their style or charisma. If Arnold ran for president, I would vote for him. Terminator 2 is the best movie ever made.

[charmc]

If Arnold ran for president, I would vote for him. Terminator 2 is the best movie ever made.

Seeing her poll numbers falling (allegedly because Obama is more effective at showing "feminine" qualities (caring about people, openness, etc.), Hillary Clinton has apparently decided to try to go macho, launching all out attacks mocking him and his "vision". One problem is that she has never taken lessons to learn to project her voice without sounding like a shrill fishmonger. One commentator said being forced to listen to her attacking Obama could trigger complaints of torture to Amnesty International. :D :D

Shallow, I know.

[Richard Atkin]

Lol!!

[Frosty]

Oh really? ive never heard her speak. Theres usually a mad dash for the remote when I see her face on the box.

Oh did you see George Bush on Jay lenno a few days back. My missus thought it was him , she got right up to the Tv, She said"thats him isnt it" I said I-I-I dont know. Sounds like him!!

[safewalrus]

Dick why bother telling us your dumb, the majority on here are not that dumb to be able to work out who is dumb and who isn't! But it's nice to have our gut instincts confirmed, thankyou!

[Richard Atkin]

Walrus.....I can't find one of those little smiley faces that does the finger :D

Hey, just wondering why you call yourself safewalrus. Do you have a huge droopy moustache or something? That would be cool.

[masalai]

He could have used "BatVampire" but his "K9's" are more the size of those on a Walrus, and the "safe" bit gives a non-threatening note to a vicious old bastard.

[Richard Atkin]

LOL Masalai :D :D Vicious old bastard....naaah....he's British, bastardness is to be expected.
Besides, I think he was trying to bait me because of my false modesty. I'm an arrogant bastard sometimes. It's fair to say I have not met a dumb person in this forum. I still think the world is full of dumb people though.

[masalai]

On behalf of Sir Walrus, a Royal Fellow of the Order of Bastards, I accept your inadvertent apology. - - I, Lord masalai, Illegitimate Claimant of the title, by birthright, do hereby decree...

[charmc]

Safe VOB???:D :D

[Jimbo1490]

I've also never seen Matrix. It's not a movie type I would be interested in, but it's nice to see that a screen play writer is at least as bright as me with his plot twists or what ever the lines above were for. When you yell fire, it's generally wise to be pretty damn sure you home is burning first.

DO rent it, or just wait a couple of days; one of the movie channels will run it again. And DO NOT read up on the plot first or you'll miss out on a deliciously shocking plot twist!

Agent Smith is the pathologically misanthropic arch villain, BTW.

[the1much]

im votin fer myself if i vote,,,,,i know i can add and sumtimes spell hehe ;)

[Richard Atkin]

I hope Mars really is heating up. Or by heating up, do the 'scientists' mean that it is heating up by .05 of a degree every 4 billion years...

[masalai]

No NO No No No Yes, What you really need is for Venus to heat up (Us blokes - Mars - are "hot" enough already? - - - It is imperative that the females - Venus - become "hot" too:D:D:D:D

[masalai]

The1, Adds up? ...:D

[Richard Atkin]

Masalai are you on acid? That stuff is bad for you

[masalai]

Natural High, No need for drugs with "right attitude":D - very zen stuff... Also I like "the Vicar of Dibbley" because of the characters:D:D:D

[the1much]

i think richards brother is calling us,,,i mean you guys, dumb,,,or saying your to dumb to know your dumb.,,,,im a little dumbfounded,,,,er,,,,dumbunfounded,,,,i think im gettin dumber by the type,,er,,,press of the black thingy with all these funny lines and symbols,,,,,,my wife hollerin ( its a freakin keyboard idiot),,,i told her nuh-uh,,,,,a keyboard is what my truck keys are hanging on,,,,,man i think she dumbed ;) :D

[masalai]

Seriously, what can one do?, when our leaders are so far up themselves they can only think of putting money in their pockets... Its like pushing 5hit up hill with a toothpic....

I know what I would do when I have the opportunity & wherewithall, but this standing on the sidelines is sooo frustrating and saddening...

Often, I feel that humour & ridicule, as the only remaining option, for us concerned sidelined folk with an overwhelming desire to move forward and help those less fortunate in access to opportunities for life.

We do not need to consume as much as we currently do - (my Lovely Lady is still hooked on acquisition - sadly)...

I have business and development plans sitting and waiting for final costing to implement as community development in Melanesia (because I know that region). In the meantime & am researching and acquiring new information that may be relevant to community development allowing greater self sufficiency in remote living.... The goal is to reduce dependency on external supplies and increase export value capacity...

[safewalrus]

Ah but, the thing with using external supplies is there's more to 'nick', easier too when people don't know what it is!!

[Richard Atkin]

I think what you are doing is great Masalai. I have a plan that could help poor countries. I want to get it going in about 5 years. I don't want to say what it is, because a lot of rich people are going to hate me. I don't want a bullet in the head. There is nothing unfair or immoral about my plan.

the1much...it wasn't my brother calling everyone dumb. It was me. But I wasn't referring to the people in this forum. I was referring to the people who hang out at the Ricki Lake show, and say stuff like "I just smashed my husband's knee caps with a hammer"....and the whole crowd cheers with delight. Ricki Lake was smiling too. Later on in the show (after being spoken to by the director), Ricki makes an announcement: "Violence is not the way...."

By contrast, everyone here seems to be highly intelligent. Especially safewalrus. :D

[Richard Atkin]

Pericles, when are you going to post another article??

[the1much]

i was only playing richard,hehehe,,and by the (except walrus) comment i see your jus foolin too hehehehehe ;) luv ya walrus ;) :D

[safewalrus]

Dick mate do I detect a hint of sarcasm in your post? Good to see your getting to be one of the gang - not a good thing to be you get kinda stuck here with the rest of us on the bottom, but hell we have fun, don't us?!?

[the1much]

im sending my $5.00 investment ;)
can we make 3rd world countries pay in "wives"?

[masalai]

Does that mean if I give 50cents I can get a new wife? - - Ahhh bugger that, Go read the SriLankan Times & you will see LOTS of lonely women with GOOD jobs and "luxury homes" and all that necessary stuff to live life comfortably - Its called a DOWRY & it also applies in India... Mostly with a job included... Ask Gamage..

[the1much]

hmmmmmm,,,,i see a new country in my future :)
im thinking of taking a few thousand cattle from here and going to like cambodia,,,,i'd be like King or something with all them cows,,,,,,i'd have 3 wives fer every cow,,,and they say theres no "eden",,,,anyone got a boat i could use,,,,,mus be able to hold a few hundred cows ;)

[masalai]

What? and trade them in for 900 two legged skinny cows (that talk and winge and demand things like: lipstick & make-up, expensive clothes, hair keeping products, How do Muslims manage?, one at a time is enough.) . . . I tell you, you are better off with the versions with 4 cloven hoofs each, you can eat them and get milk if you refrain from killing/eating the meat...:D and ask the kiwis for instructions (They reportedly love ewes:D) - and that stupid caught trying it in a goat:P:P

[the1much]

i tried giving points over that 1 Mas. hehehe here's 4 tokens and 2 cows :D ;)

[safewalrus]

Only one problem aith this multiple wife idea - with each new wife comes a new Mother-in-law!! One of those is ENOUGH!! (even when she don't talk to 'ee)

[masalai]

The1, I am returning the '2 two-legged-ones', even as blonds, they are too much of a problem... I will accept the 2 x 4 legged cloven hoofed ones as they can feed themselves... I will do as is done in India - declare them sacred and let them wander the streets...:D

[safewalrus]

Don't the two legged ones?

[masalai]

Here in OZ that problem is solved by NOT bringing that excess baggage over with the "bride"....

[masalai]

Ahhhh, Safie, to quote from the "Vicar of Dibbley" character;
No No No No No Yes, but the 4 legged ones have better quality milk & someone else will service them, just the same:D

[safewalrus]

True Missy Lee but they ain't all as beefy as our Geraldine either (or as cuddly!)

[Pericles]

OK, who's up for some heavy reading?

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/03/ny_climate_conference_journey.html

http://heartland.temp.siteexecutive.com/pdf/22835.pdf

There will be a test at the end of the term and the marks will go towards your qualification as BsD GTF

Pericles

[eponodyne]

Well, it's certainly a point of view.

Would somebody please tell me why there's so much polemic and invective around the idea that "we shouldn't probably pollute so much"? It seemed like a good idea to me when I first heard it in the early 70s as a kid, and it still seems like a good idea now.

[the1much]

Well, it's certainly a point of view.

Would somebody please tell me why there's so much polemic and invective around the idea that "we shouldn't probably pollute so much"? It seemed like a good idea to me when I first heard it in the early 70s as a kid, and it still seems like a good idea now.
Its only those people who's mommy's didnt hug nuff that dont think "greener" is better,,,,,for everyone,,,,even those idiots that are to LAZY to worry bout it,,,,the "someone else will take care of me if i just lay here and not move" ummmm "people" ;)

[brian eiland]

OK, who's up for some heavy reading?

[http://heartland.temp.siteexecutive.com/pdf/22835.pdf

There will be a test at the end of the term and the marks will go towards your qualification as BsD GTF

...aaah yes, the Heartland Institute
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Heartland_Institute

[masalai]

Pericles,

I presume that a BsD GTF is an insult promoted by those denial ostriches with their heads firmly buried in the Kalahari sands:D

[tinhorn]

Abstract
A method is proposed for harnessing of human power based on children's play in playground and public places, on devices such as the seesaw, merry-go-round and swing. When large numbers of children play in a playground, part of the power of their play can be usefully harnessed resulting in significant energy storage. This stored energy can then be converted to electricity for powering basic, low-power appliances such as lights, fans, communications equipment, and so on. The method provides a low-cost, low-resource means of generation of electricity, especially for use in developing countries...

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freea...isnumber=29142

[masalai]

That quote would have to have come from the sandblasted /brai/ cranium cavity (empty) of some poor deluded person seeking his/her 5 seconds of fame - I can only assume for the sheer entertainment value & as such thoroughly enjoyed... Extensive research and analysis of infantile behaviour seems to indicate I have just used up the potential net supply for more than one year (leap), Well researched tinhorn, It just goes to show that there are plenty of gullible ijits still in circulation...

Wanna join my church of everlasting faith? You believe in me that wealth is close at hand and make me wealthy:D:D:D beyond my wildest dreams...

[Pericles]

Brian,

:D :D :D :D :D
...aaah yes, the Center for Media & Democracy
http://www.prwatch.org/

There is a Yorkshire saying. "Where's there's muck, there's brass", which means the truth has sometimes to be dug for, in outlandish places. Right now, in NW London, we are being buffeted by the strongest rains and winds in quite a while. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7285859.stm

I really mean we are up a creek etc., as members of the EU. It is socialism, marxism, leninism and communism writ large. Europhiles are global warmists as well, another insidious doctrine to control minds as brutally as religion. Anthropogenic Global Warming is the latest god, but one which is soon to be forgotten and the sooner the better,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/03/09/do0902.xml

I'll take my chances with this.

The Manhattan Declaration on Climate Change

‘Global warming’ is not a global crisis

We, the scientists and researchers in climate and related fields, economists, policymakers, and business leaders, assembled at Times Square, New York City, participating in the 2008 International Conference on Climate Change,

Resolving that scientific questions should be evaluated solely by the scientific method;

Affirming that global climate has always changed and always will, independent of the actions of humans, and that carbon dioxide (CO2) is not a pollutant but rather a necessity for all life;

Recognising that the causes and extent of recently observed climatic change are the subject of intense debates in the climate science community and that oft-repeated assertions of a supposed ‘consensus’ among climate experts are false;

Affirming that attempts by governments to legislate costly regulations on industry and individual citizens to encourage CO2 emission reduction will slow development while having no appreciable impact on the future trajectory of global climate change. Such policies will markedly diminish future prosperity and so reduce the ability of societies to adapt to inevitable climate change, thereby increasing, not decreasing, human suffering;

Noting that warmer weather is generally less harmful to life on Earth than colder:

Hereby declare:

That current plans to restrict anthropogenic CO2 emissions are a dangerous misallocation of intellectual capital and resources that should be dedicated to solving humanity's real and serious problems.

That there is no convincing evidence that CO2 emissions from modern industrial activity has in the past, is now, or will in the future cause catastrophic climate change.

That attempts by governments to inflict taxes and costly regulations on industry and individual citizens with the aim of reducing emissions of CO2 will pointlessly curtail the prosperity of the West and progress of developing nations without affecting climate.

That adaptation as needed is massively more cost-effective than any attempted mitigation and that a focus on such mitigation will divert the attention and resources of governments away from addressing the real problems of their peoples.

That human-caused climate change is not a global crisis.

Now, therefore, we recommend -

That world leaders reject the views expressed by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change as well as popular, but misguided works such as An Inconvenient Truth.

That all taxes, regulations, and other interventions intended to reduce emissions of CO2 be abandoned forthwith.

Agreed at New York, 4 March 2008. [End of Declaration]

We belief in what we believe in. :D :D :D

Best wishes,

Perry

[masalai]

Awwwe, C'mon Pericles, I missed out on the profiteering on the anticipated miseries imposed by recalcitrant & ignorant COBOL programmers in writing for major banking instutions by using just a 2 digit value for "Year" in the hopes of capitalising on the confusion... Am iI also barking up the wrong creek with this rising tide stuff? - Oh well - next best - scare the **** out of the waterfront dwellers and pick up for a song and sell at a profit....

Either way I should be OK He HE He He.....

Who gives a hoot about the cause - Just keep me fully advised of melt rates in Greenland.... The ice there is worth 24 feet in water depth rise if the volume there melts, lots of melt from underneath as surface melt permeates the ice layers... I am keeping tabs on Antarctica which may well be a while later as it is still accumulating on the top but the surrounding water is warming ... surface & deep....

[tinhorn]

I can only assume for the sheer entertainment value & as such thoroughly enjoyed...

Yup, it cracked me up - the thought of a generator bolted to the merry-go-round.

I appreciate your offer, but I've considered starting my own religion. Gonna follow L. Ron Hubbard's lead and write a goofy book first. I think that discounting tithe to just 8% will attract the WalMart crowd.

[masalai]

Soooo, how about the1 as "enforcer" He, it seems to me would scare all the peons to open their wallets and "happily" give and give again - to make up for the offerings they "scrimped" on... Do you want an Australian branch? We do have a few "gullibles" here who are sending Au$5 million per month to help the poor Nigerians...

We need a good email that does not sound/read quite so stupid, but then not too sophisticated as to scare them off (Not donating to a "wealthy sophisticate")

Bill C could always do another "sacrificial lamb" to divert attention when internal revenue sought someone to blame.... "W" would be the sacrifice - blood letting is necessary to appease the masses of peons, and someone for them to blame for their miserable position...

[Pericles]

Masalai,

Three threats to human life, in no particular order of priority. Supervolcano, asteroid strike, me in charge. :D :D :D :D :D

Back in 2000. a BBC Horizon programme suggested that the east coast of N. America is at threat from a Tsunami trigered by a volcanic landslide in the Canary Islands. It has been repeated many times on various networks and taken up elsewhere in parts of the MSM. http://www.rense.com/general56/tsu.htm

In spite of criticism the story became gospel although a simple calculation based on the amount of energy needed to flood New York suggested the claim was exaggerated.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3963563.stm

As the side of the volcano is only a few miles long, the power of the ensuing waves would be decreased several thousand times as they spread out. This situation contrasts with the large undersea earthquakes, where the disturbance can stretch for hundreds of miles and the seabed is raised over thousands of square miles.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/opinion/story/0,,1383678,00.html

Place your bets please. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

http://www.es.ucsc.edu/~ward/papers/La_Palma_grl.pdf

Perry

[masalai]

Hay, I
m just trying to capitalise on "fear" as I dont have enough cash to stir the other way... Read what I have said - - "Who gives a hoot about the cause..."

I also have a dis-reputation to live down to (in the distribution of "red herrings" - or "communist fish")

[Richard Atkin]

BORING NEWS FLASH:

Every Richard Atkin post in this thread was not done by me. Yeah really. My dumbass dweeb flatmate couldn't be bothered logging in so he used my name instead. He even seemed to have fun trying to sound like me, with lots of dots in his sentences and careful attention to waterspouts (I am interested in waterspouts and tornadoes at the moment).

I have changed my password so he can't be me anymore.

[the1much]

thats what i said after i read some of my own posts too hehe ;)

[timgoz]

Hello Everyone,

I keep seeing this thread pop up. I know there are diverse opinions concerning the same, and I think, in the past, I have expressed mine.

I'll do so again; One volcaeno spewing it's substance into the atmosphere influences the enviroment more than 10,000+ industries ever could. I do not say that mankind's activities do not have an effect, nor should we not be aware of those effects. What I say is, there are larger influences at work. Modern science has only been monitering the enviroment for a short period, in the grand scope of things. To imperil our industry and development over possibly confused, and or misdirected concerns, seems ludicrous.

The Earth cycles as it wishes.

Take care.

Tim

[Pericles]

Interesting comment Richard,

At the time of reading, this did not seem to be you.

"Without meaning to sound unfeeling....I think dead people should be ground up and used as fertiliser. Really. It could be looked upon as grotesque, or it could be viewed as a beautiful step in the life cycle of mankind.

Not me though....I want to be frozen (Cryogenics?spelling?) until technology progresses and I will wake up and probably be horribly traumatised. Nothing to do with climate change...sorry."

You need to know what other pranks have been perpetrated elsewhere in your name. I trust you have read all the entries in this thread.

"Scientists who study the earth's climate, the earth's age, the age of fossils and other remains, the age of the universe, the size of the universe......

Well...I think most of them are just massaging their own egos. They have already found remains (including ancient human) that totally contradict their theories on the timing of evolution. Perhaps we are a much older species than we thought. The universe is expanding. What universe? All we can see is a tiny pin point of a universe. It could be radically different to what we expect to see beyond our telescopes. Perhaps we are living in a particular pocket of the universe that supports life. This may be one of many pockets that are all floating in a sea of chaotic jelly, which is hanging from a giant nose. Perhaps I should do the math to prove this!!!

Dooms day scientists like to use algebra...using the known variables to work out the unknown variables. Only problem is...many of the 'known' variables are actually theoretical. What a waste of time. (try telling them that).

They should just continue with the work that is actually worth while. (like flying men to Mars. That would make a good TV show).

Alan White, if my argument doesn't sound very intelligent, read it again. Sometimes it's better to be dumb so you can see the bigger picture.

Here's the BIGGEST picture of all: If we want people to be more caring, then we need to understand the cause and cure for Neurosis, and then work with that knowledge."

Richard, is your flatmate your brother?

"
Quote:
Alan White Quote: "The cause of neurosis is self-disagreement. Self-disagreement comes of wanting ones cake but wanting to eat it too. Unable to agree with oneself, the psyche splits into a cake-eater and a cake-saver, each of which is certain that it knows what to do with a cake.
Neither side ever really knows anything of value since each is always missing half of the picture."
Just thought you might be curious to check out the following link:

http://andrewatkin3.googlepages.com/...mentalsickness

*Note: This is nothing to do with boat design.

Love from Andrew (Richard Atkin's brother).
Reply With Quote"

Good luck with repairing your reputation. :D :D

Regards,

Pericles

[safewalrus]

couple of points guys - I can't do anything about it - what will be will be!:mad:

therefore

Who gives a fcuk!!!:P :D :P :D :P :D



Praise the lord and pass another can of beer -lets at least die happy:cool:

[timgoz]

Thats why I generally aviod these threads. It is actually science, be it put in the forground, involve stuff that should not be on a boat forum, (ie. Theology, or peoples perspective of the same). I shall now endevour to get back on subject. I do appreciate you all.

Tim

[Pericles]

Too true Tim.

"I'll do so again; One volcaeno spewing it's substance into the atmosphere influences the enviroment more than 10,000+ industries ever could. I do not say that mankind's activities do not have an effect, nor should we not be aware of those effects. What I say is, there are larger influences at work. Modern science has only been monitering the enviroment for a short period, in the grand scope of things. To imperil our industry and development over possibly confused, and or misdirected concerns, seems ludicrous.

The Earth cycles as it wishes."

The EU is imperiling Europe sure enough!

This might interest you. I just found out what our new EU Government is costing. To run the EU costs £600,000,000,000 per year, or 12% of the Gross Domestic Product of Europe as a whole, which is five trillion pounds sterling or ten trillion dollars US. $10,000,000,000,000


I missed the article in 2004 2004, but it's worth linking to now. No wonder the EU Government doesn't want to give the European people a referendum.

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2004/11/true-cost-of-european-unio_110182535585282058.html

Pericles

[masalai]

Ooooo is that enough to pay for a small war in afganistan? - so that is why EU is not helping there - Well, if they "attack" at the right time there could be a nice profit in it - the opium crop is the biggest in a long while....

[masalai]

This is some info from http://aoss.engin.umich.edu/people/rbrood this bloke and understand this http://www.wunderground.com/blog/RickyRood/show.html


Getting Ready for Spring (2): (http://www.wunderground.com/blog/RickyRood/comment.html?entrynum=65&tstamp=200803)

If the planet is slowly warming, it is difficult to make that determination from the day-to-day and even the year-to-year weather observations. There is large variability of the temperature, plus there are sometimes problems with the quality of observations. Both of these are especially true if only a single place is considered, like an airport being surrounded by a city – or your backyard. Because of this strong variability, we rely on temperature measurements collected over many years and from many places. We also use temperature data from different types of instruments, and there are continuous efforts of quality control to determine and correct observational errors. This collection of observations for many years and from many places and from many sources is a way to accumulate information and to remove the variability that is random. Random variability, by definition, averages out to zero if enough observations are accumulated

...

Stone et al. (2002): Earlier spring snowmelt in northern Alaska as an indicator of climate change, J. Geophys. Res., 107, 10.1029/2000JD000286.

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/RickyRood/comment.html?entrynum=65&tstamp=200803

[the1much]

hehehe,,,i like the "the earth will kill itself,,so what little we do to it doesnt matter,,we'll all die anyways" thinking,,,or is that reading it wrong Tim?
i just cant imagine what a person must do to their own body and those around "him" when they dont see the harm in things because somday a volcano will blow up, and the earth will freeze again,,,,,and is that the end of the earth??,,how many times in history has a volcano blown up and caused an "ice age"??,,,did those events kill the earth?,,or help it "start over" again,,,and will it be as easy to "start over again" when you factor in what "we've" done,,,and spewed out,,,will it stay "darker" longer by a few thousand years if you factor us in,,,can it come back from the "EXTRA" harm???
man i jus full of questions,,,and soon i'll be able to type AND think at the same time hehe ;)

[Pericles]

Masalai ,

Here is one observation from the comments section.

"The report from Working Group II of the IPCC does an extensive summarization of evidence of the warm season getting longer all around the world.

Global Warming May Be Just European

Readers of the IPCC Fourth Assessment Report - Working Group 2 (AR4-WG2) may be forgiven to think a colossal misreading of available data may be at the foundation of contemporary Climate Change/Global Warming scares.

That report contains a map of “significant changes” (SC) already observed around the world. It is repeated throughout, and you can see it in the Summary for Policymakers, page 10, Figure SPM.1.

A total of 29,459 SCs are reported. An impressive number, at first glance.

Only, 96% of those changes regard just Europe.

The IPCC itself could not list more than 1,225 SCs not related to Europe.

——–

This enormous geographical bias does not get better when we count how many of those SCs are actually “consistent with a warming world”.

Planet-wise, there are 26,285. Of those, 96% are in Europe. Actually, 25,022 are European SCs related to “biological systems”.

That’s 95% of the total.

That means that outside of Europe, the IPCC could not find more than 1,150 SCs “consistent with warming”.

Compare that to the number of European SCs NOT-”consistent with warming”: 3,100

We have twice as many changes that are INCONSISTENT with warming in Europe, than CONSISTENT with warming in the rest of the world.

——–

Note also the distribution of the other “observed changes”. Only 7 for the whole of Africa, 114 for Asia, and 144 for the Polar Regions.

But what is most notable is that in the whole of North America (where, one would expect, a lot of researchers reside), only 810 SCs have been reported. Of those, 752 are consistent with warming.

That’s 3% of the total.

So for a summary: 96% from Europe. 3% with North America. Almost nothing for everywhere else."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That and the fact that many of these measuring instruments are not placed correctly and gather false information suggests, we should follow the money.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"New derivation of equations governing the greenhouse effect reveals “runaway warming” impossible. Miklos Zagoni isn’t just a physicist and environmental researcher. He is also a global warming activist and Hungary’s most outspoken supporter of the Kyoto Protocol. Or was. That was until he learned the details of a new theory of the greenhouse effect, one that not only gave far more accurate climate predictions here on Earth, but Mars too. The theory was developed by another Hungarian scientist, Ferenc Miskolczi, an atmospheric physicist with 30 years of experience and a former researcher with NASA’s Ames Research Center.

After studying it, Zagoni stopped calling global warming a crisis, and has instead focused on presenting the new theory to other climatologists. The data fit extremely well. “I fell in love,” he stated at the International Climate Change Conference this week. “Runaway greenhouse theories contradict energy balance equations,” Miskolczi states. Just as the theory of relativity sets an upper limit on velocity, his theory sets an upper limit on the greenhouse effect, a limit which prevents it from warming the Earth more than a certain amount. How did modern researchers make such a mistake? They relied upon equations derived over 80 years ago, equations which left off one term from the final solution.

Miskolczi’s story reads like a book. Looking at a series of differential equations for the greenhouse effect, he noticed the solution—originally done in 1922 by Arthur Milne, but still used by climate researchers today—ignored boundary conditions by assuming an “infinitely thick” atmosphere. So Miskolczi re-derived the solution, this time using the proper boundary conditions for an atmosphere that is not infinite. His result included a new term, which acts as a negative feedback to counter the positive forcing. At low levels, the new term means a small difference ... but as greenhouse gases rise, the negative feedback predominates, forcing values back down. NASA refused to release the results. Miskolczi believes their motivation is simple. “Money”, he tells DailyTech. Research that contradicts the view of an impending crisis jeopardizes funding, not only for his own atmosphere-monitoring project, but all climate-change research. Currently, funding for climate research tops $5 billion per year. Miskolczi resigned in protest.

His theory was eventually published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal in his home country of Hungary. The conclusions are supported by research published in the Journal of Geophysical Research last year from Steven Schwartz of Brookhaven National Labs, who gave statistical evidence that the Earth’s response to carbon dioxide was grossly overstated. It also helps to explain why current global climate models continually predict more warming than actually measured.

http://www.dailytech.com/Researcher+Basic+Greenhouse+Equations+Totally+Wrong/article10973.htm

Regards,

Perry

[masalai]

OK Perry, thanks for the info - - I guess we have different perceptions, I do not feel that it is imminent, but either way planning takes quite a period of time to implement - either way... I hope it goes warmer - I absolutely HATE cold....

In the case of the Australian Govt, even though Warming seems the accepted option (sort of) it will take either political persuasion a good 20 years to act, then, how long to complete the changes (again - either way) - - - :D:D:D is all one can do...

[Pericles]

Meanwhile it's the sheer cost of all these scares that concerns me. Trillions of dollars are being wasted in schemes of no value, except to the promoters. Food riots overthrow regimes. http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/

Less than a month ago, we were reporting on how the EU member state governments, when confronted with the economic reality of implementing their fantasy 20 percent cut in CO2 emissions, were demurring at the potential costs and seeking ways to reduce their impact.

The point was that these self-same governments had agreed those very cuts at the spring European Council the year before. Following that experience, with the next spring council due this Thursday and Friday, you would think they might have learned a lesson or two.

But this is the European Union we are talking about and, to expect rational behaviour is to neglect the effect of the unreal world inhabited by the "colleagues" as they get round the table in Brussels.

Thus it is, according to Reuters, that "EU leaders" are this week to call on the EU commission "to draw up a road map for deeper cuts in greenhouse gas emissions, going beyond a unilateral target agreed in the fight against climate change."

Already, a draft final statement has been prepared by the EU's Slovenian presidency. It employs the mind-numbing language that the "colleagues" so love, declaring: "Stepping up to the more ambitious 30 percent reduction target as part of a global and comprehensive agreement needs to be built in explicitly, and in a balanced, transparent and equitable way."

And in a "balanced, transparent and equitable way", EU leaders will put their names to this fantasy document and walk away to collect the headlines. Their civil servants, on the other hand - individually and collectively - will tear their hair out, in full knowledge that the target is unachievable. Not only that, they must be aware that each of the member states governments have no intention whatsoever of even trying.

Nevertheless, Mr Brown will solemnly commend to our local parliament on Monday, in his ritual post council statement, the new targets. So life will go on, with MPs performing their usual role as a captive audience in what can only be described as fantasy politics.

What really gives the game away in this context is that, as Reuters reports, the Slovenian statement does not offer detailed plans on how the EU intends to achieve this deeper cut. Bearing in mind that the current crop of "leaders" have no idea of how they are going to achieve the 20 percent cut already agreed, this is wholly predictable. But it does make you wonder about the sanity of those involved in this process, where reality can be suspended, not only once but again and again and again.

However, there is no truth, unfortunately, in the rumour that they are using this artwork (illustrated) as the cover for their statement.

PS http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7264653.stm

[the1much]

ya placement of devices are important,,,,but its also import. to remember "winds" and "jet streams",,,they can carry "crap" from the industrial parts of america,,(and would imagine works same everywhere) to the places that think "industry" meands"moms cleaning the attic"..they did a study ( collage of the atlantic) and maine is the largest tourist destination in all of u.s. (florida takes that over in the winter) everyone wants to go there and breathe that "fresh" air.,,,well on top of cadilac mountain (the place to be in Mount Desert Island) they took measurements,,,,,guess what it said?,,,,us "mainers" dont breathe so deep anymore hehe ;)

[Pericles]

Barrow Station History

Station located near NE-SW trending coastline within a few miles of the northermost point in Alaska. Terrain fairly flat and sodden, with continuous permafrost and numerous thaw lakes, generally windy. Sea ice generally tight against shore in winter; may retreat offshore to considerable distance in summer. Current coordinates 71 degrees 18' N, 156 degrees 47' W, elevation 31 feet. Scattered data, not in file, prior to 1900. History starts with brief records 1901-1904 and 1910- 1911, both in hospital building. Observations by teachers in school building Dec 1915 - March 1919 with move 600' west, elevation(11 feet) still suspect. Move 1000 feet NE, up 2 feet and to Army Radio Building September 1920, instrumentation recorded for first time, temperature obs. 5'. Station moved 0.3 miles SW and upslope to 17 feet elevation 12/27/24. LCD summary says temporary move to Hansens Store, location unknown. 8/15/25 station moved back 0.3 miles NE, back down to 13 feet when Radio Building rebuilt. Became USWB station 12/15/42, with station move 0.33 miles SW to Weather Bureau Quarters #1, near shore of Chukchi Sea. Station move 810 feet ESE and up to 22' 2/8/44, change in temperature sensor height to 12 feet, to escape sea ice. Move 150 feet SE to New Quonset building and thermograph added 4/2/55. Temperature instruments moved west 10/14/59, west again 12/31/61. Move 330 feet ESE to Weather Bureau building at Wiley Post-Will Rogers Airport and thermograph removed 11/7/66. Temperature instruments lowered to 5 feet and HO6 series hygrothermometer added 75 feet NW of instrument shelter 4/21/77. Old max-min instruments removed 2/6/78, and HO8 series hygrothermometer installed 10/21/85.


1901-1904 observation time 7 pm; 1910-1911 9 am; 1915-1919 11 am; 1920-1924 7 pm; 1924-25 5 pm. Observation time 1925- present midnight.

Observer USWB/USWS since 1942.

Record length and completeness good; no missing data since 1921. Site continuity reasonable, but changes in summer exposure to ocean, and albedo changes due to growth of town, moves, snow clearance, dirt on snow, etc. could result in false long-term trends. Suggest reoccupation of old thermometer sites for at least a year's comparison before considering use for long-term trends. Also look at effect of switch to HO series instruments.

http://climate.gi.alaska.edu/history/Arctic/Barrow.html

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2008/03/09/4952656-sun.html

Change happens,

Perry

PS. some fun. http://www.dozenal.org/files/A1%20BRIEF%20INTRO.pdf

[the1much]

if i could read,,then understand half of what you typed Per.,,,,id love arguing,,,i mean,, id love to have a conversation with you hehehehe ;) :P ;)

[SamSam]

Hello Everyone,

I keep seeing this thread pop up. I know there are diverse opinions concerning the same, and I think, in the past, I have expressed mine.

I'll do so again; One volcaeno spewing it's substance into the atmosphere influences the enviroment more than 10,000+ industries ever could. I do not say that mankind's activities do not have an effect, nor should we not be aware of those effects. What I say is, there are larger influences at work. Modern science has only been monitering the enviroment for a short period, in the grand scope of things. To imperil our industry and development over possibly confused, and or misdirected concerns, seems ludicrous.

The Earth cycles as it wishes.

Take care.

Tim

I'm thinking you just made that number up, but, say there is 1 million "industries" in the world, (I'm just making that number up, I don't know how many or even what constitutes an "industry") that would be the equivalent of 100 erupting volcanoes constantly spewing forth with never a letup. Googling around, the consensous among volcanologists is there are between 16 - 24 volcanoes erupting at any given time. All of this means not much, as the numbers are guesses, but the point is 6.7 billion humans in themselves are an awful large influence at work.

"To imperil our industry and development" makes me wonder about the whole scheme of things. Does industry and development ever end? Are we to keep developing forever? Aren't we developed enough for awhile?

[masalai]

Arrr, SamSam, an extension of that line of thought one could argue 'Humanity will get its just deserts for such greed and suffer the Easter Island effect' :D:D:D - disregard all the fables about aliens etc... just eat themselves out of existance, & with no way out as all the wood was used for other things - no boats::::::

[charmc]

fantasy politics.

That's redundant, isn't it? :mad: :mad:

[masalai]

Allow Pericles his foibles, if it was would he be here entertaining us all?? - All in the name of "red herrings":D

[Pericles]

Chaps,

Contrary to all rumours, my boat will not be named "Cats Whiskers" cos of my tendency to preen, nor will it be "Red Herring" because I tell a couple disingenuously, once or twice. The name will be "Saxon Traveller", because it rolls off the tongue with innocent panache. I was tempted with "Ex Perry Mental", but you know how people gossip. :P :P :P :P :P

Although it may seem like it to some, I am not on this forum 24/7. I do have another life, but that concerns steam railways, to which we shall all be reduced when the ice brings down the overhead catenaries and diesel is frozen in the tanks of the DE locos. (I'm exaggerating, I know!) We were discussing the need for a rescue locomotive and I suggested a battery powered one, using Odyssey. http://www.isengard.co.uk/#News

There are those of us who have been contemplating diesel electric power for our boats and http://www.hawker-odyssey.co.uk/batt-index.html would have seemed a logical step. However, Gideon Goudsmit notified me that his company have chosen Lithium Ion.

http://www.africancats.com/resources/documents/PRESS435_LION_ENG15062006.pdf

from

http://www.valence.com/products/epoch_overview.html

For some, it's over to
http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9310&page=10&highlight=diesel+electric

Regards,

Pericles

[masalai]

Pericles, I hope I did not hit the wrong button - I am the accused red-herring thrower (not my invention but an accusation I adopted as a disarming buffer in my defence:D)...

You sound like a parting is envisioned, which would sadden me greatly for I appreciate your depth of knowledge (preferring on alternative power, as I agree wholehartedly... - opposing - slightly the potential direction of climatology - of no great consequence - which is probably closely associated with economics in a definition like "witchcraft without the witches")

Does "Flaneur" fit with your agenda? . . One definition I liked went something like '. . .Wandering around indolently observing the culture, absorbing the atmosphere and enjoying casual interaction. . . ' Apparently there is a club/association in London...

[Pericles]

Masalai,

I only suggested a move to another thread on DE boats, not that my call sign would be Foxtrot Oscar.:D :D

A mocking dandy in the big-city crowd, alienated, isolated, anonymous, aristocratic, melancholic. I love it!

Peregrinations. Never without the Internet, for it would be a poor fool who would deny succour, when it is so generously offered.:D

Regards,

Perry

[masalai]

OK it is yours to name your boat... - - Now I must think of an appropriate and inoffensive name for mine... - - What do you think of "toopiare" pronounced as in "2-pi-r" equals the "circumfrence"

[Pericles]

Pyerrrsq'rd

[Pericles]

Circumlocution. To talk your way around it!

[Pericles]

"Merry go round". "Roundabout". "Carousel". "Great Circle". "Menagerie Lion". (As in "The Equator is an imaginary line running round the Earth").

Perry

[masalai]

pi*r^2 is area, and - - 2*pi*r is circumference, and - - 4/3*pi*r^3 is volume last I did circular maths

2Pirr'y could be considered an acceptable corruption for your boat (interchangable "i/e")

[Pericles]

Masalai,

"2Pirr'y could be considered an acceptable corruption for your boat (interchangable "i/e")" That'd work for the tender behind. :D

I went looking for an email address for Nigel Calder, who writes on nautical matters, but instead I became circumlocuted to Nigel Calder, the British science writer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Calder

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle

"That's a fine juxtaposition you got me into, Stanley!".
Apologies to fans of Stan & Olly.

Regards,

Perry

[the1much]

Per.,,,, ya like trains?,,,,im half owner of a dead line,,,,,but no train,,,just our track cars,,trucks and equipment.

[charmc]

The name will be "Saxon Traveller", because it rolls off the tongue with innocent panache. ... Although it may seem like it to some, I am not on this forum 24/7. I do have another life,

Perry,

I like the name and the reason for it, you eloquent devil, you. :)

As to the second ... congratulations.

Many far wiser than me have counselled keeping at least one foot grounded firmly in reality at all times. :D

[the1much]

i'd be a computer "HOE" if it wasnt for my damned kids crying bout food,,,,geesh,,when i was 3,,i had to walk to school 4 miles up hill both ways :(

[charmc]

Barefoot, through snow in May ... :D :D

[the1much]

Saxon Traveller ,,,,,,,,does that mean he's gonna sail around playing us all music? hehe ;)

[the1much]

how come they dont make "hand holds" on ya bottom side,,,,just for times like this>>>>from "yahoo daily something heh)
Tue Mar 11, 11:01 PM ET

CORE, W.Va. - Life jackets are made for people, not dogs. So, when Randy Earl's small boat capsized while he was fishing with his dog Lacy, a black spaniel mix, he stayed in the water with his life jacket while making sure Lacy was OK.
ADVERTISEMENT

"When the boat flipped over, I put the dog on top of the boat," Earl told The Dominion Post of Morgantown.

While waiting for someone to rescue them on Mason Lake in northern West Virginia, Earl clung to the 12-foot boat's hull. The water temperature was about 50 degrees, said J.M. Crawley, a senior conservation officer for the Division of Natural Resources.

Another fisherman, Jan Thorn, watched from shore as a state trooper paddled out to rescue Earl and Lacy.

"He asked the state trooper to take the dog first," Thorn said. "It was very touching."

Earl, 53, said Lacy means a lot to him and his wife since they lost both of their children in a car accident 15 years ago.

"That dog is like a child to us," he said.<<<<<<

and they say boaters dont care,,,,MucH,,hehe
,,but anyways,,,couldnt ya make "insets" and have "covers" for them so they dont cause drag,,,,then whan ya flip,,"push in" on the covers,,and be able to pull yaself up out of the water, way easier then if ya tried doing the "snail crawl",,,hehe,,,(least that what i thought i looked like when "my friend" flipped his boat hehe") ;)

[masalai]

Norse, Saxons & Jutes - weren't they in with the vikings, rape pillage & generally improving the gene pool in greater england? so I suppose it will be more of the same but further afield?

[masalai]

What is that French phrase "Menage au twa" (cant spell that) & what does it mean ? I thought of something like "three loves" in another language might be amusing - I love the boat, I love the lovely lady and I love sailing...:D

Reminded me of Wynand's thread "Stranded Mariners tub" and the story on the cats in China - say this in French "1, 2, 3, 4, 5" 'cept a few more than 6 ? :D:D:D...

[the1much]

i cant even say "french dressing" in "french"

[timgoz]

Lake Mason is actually in SW West Virginia, close to the capital of Charleston. I can relate with saving the dog though.

Tim

[Pericles]

Snow disaster leaves 1.6 mln people frostbitten in NW China province
www.chinaview.cn
XI'NING, March 1 (Xinhua) -- Severe snow disasters have left 1.65 million people snowblind and frostbitten, 500,000 livestock and wildlife dead and 3.1 million others on verge of starvation in Tibetan prefectures of northwestern Qinghai Province.

Since October last year, consecutive low temperature had gripped the province. The temperature plunged to minus 36.3 degrees centigrade, the record lowest in January in the province, said the provincial meteorological bureau.

In Yushu, Guoluo and Huangnan Tibet Autonomous Prefectures, most of the grassland was covered by snow, usually 16 to 32 cm thick, which had brought great losses to local animal husbandry.

In the disaster-stricken prefectures, 130,000 people had run out of fuels, 350,000 people in need of food and 110,000 others short of warm clothes or quilts, said the provincial government.
...

Winter storms have also plagued southern China since mid-January, leading to widespread traffic jams, structural collapses, blackouts and crop losses in 19 provinces, leaving 129 people dead and causing 151.65 billion yuan of losses, according to the Ministry of Civil Affairs.


http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-03/02/content_7698015.htm


http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/january-2008-4-sources-say-globally-cooler-in-the-past-12-months/


And the EU has its head up its rectal orifice. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7296564.stm

Pericles

[masalai]

Adequate fresh frozen meat to feed the Olympics visitors?

That was all part of the expectation in "Global Warming" - strange isn't it... with increased warmth, the level of atmospheric moisture increases creating more potential rain events and in cold dry regions this turns into devastating blizzards:D:D:D

I guess one could rightly expect lots more of this kind of catastrophe, and elsewhere, along with extremely hot weather periods like around Adelaide at the present around 14 days above (your USA archaic system) 100 degrees Fahrenheit...

Sorry Per, I couldn't resist - red herrings and stuff :D:D:D

[Pericles]

Mas,

"Sorry Per, I couldn't resist - red herrings and stuff "

As the scorpion said to the frog as they were both drowning, because the scorpion had stung the frog. "It's in my nature!" :D :D :D :D :D :D

http://www.scotese.com/climate.htm

Best regards,

Perry

[the1much]

they said this was the snowiest march texas has seen since 1961,,,,,for some reason their all blaming the yankee hippie for making the snow follow him down here hehe ;)

[Kaptin-Jer]

Florida is predicted to be under water soon. That is the real reason I started to re build this boat. Just call me New Noah:P My wife thinks it's for fun times when I retire. I think I'll tell the mortgage company I'm not going to pay any more because I heard that my house will be under water soon, and Jim said I'll be able to dock my boat behind his house in Midland, Texas.:D

[safewalrus]

So it's true then - Global Warming is a good thing!! We can blame everything on Global Warming!! Does that include the Weapons of Mass Disappearance in Iraq? The sun melted them all away!! Anyone told the 'shrub' yet??

[masalai]

Point well taken Pericles, with pleasurable chuckles at your rejoinder:D:D:D

[masalai]

He is still in "denial" which even the combined efforts of the FBI, CIA and KGB cannot convince the fool otherwise... More in a few minutes... back from some domestic duty... as per some reports in the news here.... - the denial seems all encompassing...

I passed through a web site with a "Test your IQ - Mr shrub has an IQ of 125" did the decimal place get lost or is this American anal-ysis evaluation supposed to make dolts look good too???

[SamSam]

This has nothing directly to do with global warming, but I just found out about the Great Pacific Ocean Garbage Patch, which is interesting. The picture is a bird that ate bottle caps until it died. Other than illustrating Darwins theory that if you're that GD stupid you deserve to die, it is just a cheap trick to get your attention.

http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Ocean/Pacific-Garbage-Patch27oct02.htm

http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Ocean/Sea-Plastic-LN-PG5oct05a.jpg

[safewalrus]

Interesting..........time to start 'farming' plastics I believe, and recycling properly!! (absolutrly NO chance - "out of sight out of mind")

Aosl interesting to note that the Master (it's a civilian ship NOT a warship - Captain is a Military rank) needs to wear his rank badges in the middle of the Pacific - don't the rest of the crew know him then?? Or is he so unsure of himself..............................in which case...............

[timgoz]

I was quite bothered when out both lobster & crab fishing, (seperate boats & areas) with my Newfoundland friend, to see him toss the plastic from the bait boxes into the water. Sure, there are not a lot of people there, but it still has an impact. I'm no greenie, by any stretch of the imagination, but believe in being responsible and considerate of the enviroment. The Earth is not a garbage can. My state, Pennslyvania, has garbage coming here from as far away as California. Seems the waste industry is controlled by the mob. Other than Lousiana (sp?) we are the most corrupt state in the US. I call us, PA, "the state of corruption". :(

[the1much]

I was quite bothered when out both lobster & crab fishing, (seperate boats & areas) with my Newfoundland friend, to see him toss the plastic from the bait boxes into the water. Sure, there are not a lot of people there, but it still has an impact. :(
not putting ya friend down,,,but it takes a pretty big,,,um,,"non-smart" person to kill his own livelihood,,,i grew up not far from them newfoundland fishermen,,we used ta wave to each other out there,,,,and my family is as "hill-billy" fishermen there is,,but if i even dared throw a piece of paper overboard,,my dad would have me swimming till i found it and brought it back,,,and scalloping in February isnt a very good time to take a swim ;(

[masalai]

I guess the "Captain" is in fancy dress for the pic & the crew his slave - er wife??? all in the name of publicity and selling the story for a few dollars... I am aware of stories from cruising yachts of moving areas in the south pacific where floating garbage seems to accumulate - mostly relating to stories of large numbers of "thongs" (common asian/pacific safety boot) all being of the left foot in one are and when finding another area of flotsam, the difficulty in finding the matching colour thong for the right foot... The zone seems to be E of Solomon Islands / Vanuatu & N of Fiji / Samoa...

[safewalrus]

Aye Missy Lee guess your right he HAS to impress someone!!:D

Hey I've got a set of them 'eppelettes' if I walk around the place with them on do you think I'll impress? (or get locked up in the nut house more like!!):p :D :p

[masalai]

Just make sure you have enough "gold bars" & "scrambled eggs" commensurate with your age and stature - then maybe even the local coppers may salute, thinking of you as the retired "James Bond" as they were all naval commanders :D:D:D - could be useful when coming home with a tankful? - and also to get a tankful - yearns of the sea and so on...

[Guillermo]

I think this two have not been posted yet:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming

Cheers.

[Kaptin-Jer]

Tim,
I don't know what you are so upset about. The 1 Much is right. I grew up In a fishing town in South Jersey, knew Long-Liners from New York and now I am docked with Sport fishermen. I have never seen one commercial lobster man, crabber, or fisherman abuse the environment. Not in a tree hugging way -just in a normal, respectful way. They don't stand on the corner holding up signs, but they all bring their plastic garbage bags back to the dock.

[the1much]

and P.S.
i would be HONORED to be on your ignore list hehe ;)
im pretty sure your gonna be on quite a few,,,,in fact if i was you i'd send all ya friends over and brag bout ya post,,,im sure you'll have GREAT compliments.
and for my threat,,,"i wish you and ya whole family a GREAT easter :) "

[Knox]

i think we are going in to a cold lot of years and
co2 making this planet warmer is a load of bs there is no real prof

[Frosty]

I would agree but phew its hot here today. Its bloody scorching, I cant walk the deck in my bare feet, what must it be like in Saudi? ---phew I gotta get to the bar for a nice frosty of Carlsberg.

[the1much]

i think we are going in to a cold lot of years and
co2 making this planet warmer is a load of bs there is no real prof

antartic weather in the last 5 years has risen by 2 degrees,,last year we lost 2% of the ice pack,,,,thats their proof,,,,,but its still to dam cold for me to go check it out hehehe ;)
and global warming isnt the big deal,,noone really cares if we go up a few degrees,,,,its what happpens to our enviroment thats the problem

[the1much]

the big grass fire is OUT!!!!,,,again,, Thanks guys for ya thoughts ;)

[safewalrus]

Guess you could do with a bit of global raining in your area to keep it out 1much1. Just keep an eye on the 'great unwashed' it's often their thoughtless actions that cause these things - but hell you know that! Why am I telling you? Great news it's out mind, hope nobody was hurt to bad! Well done to all concerned! Now lets get back to kickin rrrrrrrrrr!

[Knox]

antartic weather in the last 5 years has risen by 2 degrees,,last year we lost 2% of the ice pack,,,,thats their proof,,,,,but its still to dam cold for me to go check it out hehehe ;)
and global warming isnt the big deal,,noone really cares if we go up a few degrees,,,,its what happpens to our enviroment thats the problem

but now they are looking at sun spot activity and saying that we are going to have good cold winters agine becuse the sun has not been that active latly as in the sunspot cicle is not going round

[safewalrus]

Yeah and i'm having a bad spring 'cos I'm stayin up late to read damn fool threads 'bout global warmin and things!

[the1much]

why is everyone ALWAYS trying to confuse me? hehe ;)
i dont know if i need a fur coat or string bikini,,never mind Kapt.,,,i know,,hehehe,,,,get the coat NO MATTER WHAT. hehehe ;)

[safewalrus]

What about fur bikini, got the best of both worlds then!:D :D :D :cool:

[the1much]

im thinking it MAY "tickle" the WRONG spots hehe ;)

[masalai]

& the "flasher effect" would be lost... he he he her...

[masalai]

Arrrr cool it please the1... Have some of your meds or I won't send those pumpkin...

[safewalrus]

Jim if it tickles you got it on inside out!!.................................theres a thought!!

[the1much]

hmmmm,,,,kinda like the "blow up doll" that im still laughing about hahahhahaha
hehe ;)

[safewalrus]

Not the one that 'paddy' thought was a man? seems he had it inside out!!

[the1much]

hahahaha,,,yuppers,,,,thats the 1 i tell everyone,,,had soda and coffee "spit" at me from friends laughing their butts off hehe ;)

[safewalrus]

Can understand that - it's brilliant!

[the1much]

13 people dead from flooding from arkansas to maine ,,,,ya think these idiots will figure out how to stop the flooding,,,i figure people living in flood areas deserve their houses floating away,,,,and ya think they'll notice that it "seems" we flood out more often?,,,ya think them SMART engineers,,ya know,,the ones with the diplomas on the wall,,,,will figure out the more they fill rivers,,and flood plains,,,the MORE flooding there is,,the more damage,,,,,ya think all they would do is look at the mississippi river,,and see how the "flood areas" is "moving" further UP the river as they keep putting in levees DOWN river to stop the flooding,,hehe,,idiots,,,
and i KNOW i can be a millionare,,,i got this WICKED design to help the idiots from loosing their houses,,,maybe 1 day i'll patent it,,ya would think i would with it being so easy,,,i bet in 10 years if you live in a "flood plain" your insurance will make ya "have 1",of my "thingys" hehe ;)
of course,,the ONLY insurance they can get is through the goverment,,which means,,EVERY time their house floods out,,,,we pay for a new 1 for em,,over,and over,and over,and over,and over,and over,and over,,,,kind of redundant isnt it hehe ;)

[safewalrus]

? Move to the Rockies ? helluva commute on a daily basis ain't it?

Wouldn't want to walk home after a skinful at luch time would you?

[the1much]

i love mountains,,,,i go up,,,,make trip down to the "town" once a month fer coffe and sugar,,hehe ;)

[charmc]

of course,,the ONLY insurance they can get is through the goverment,,which means,,EVERY time their house floods out,,,,we pay for a new 1 for em,,over,and over,and over,and over,and over,and over,and over,,,,kind of redundant isnt it hehe ;)

Here in Florida it's the building near, and even on, the beaches. Welfare for millionaires. :) :) Have to "restore" the beaches when they wash away naturally. Can't wait the 3-8 years for them to build up again naturally, must "restore" them now, today, to maintain property values (and high tax revenues). So the rest of us pay out to dredge and pump sand, which starts washing away immediately because the natural cycle hasn't changed. Hurricane come, wash away house; no problem, federal government flood insurance (us taxpayers) will pay.

I couldn't believe the history behind one project planned near here. The county and state want to spend millions to reopen a pass (inlet to you Northern boys) from the GOM to Sarasota Bay. I thought it had been closed by a long ago storm. Nope, it seems that the county allowed some homeowners to bulldoze it closed in the 1980's because they complained about erosion undermining the houses they had built next to the pass (of course, all was done in the best interests of the county, no money changed hands. Anyone hoping to see the Easter Bunny, lads? :rolleyes: ) Without natural water circulation and flushing, the southern part of Sarasota Bay has silted up, lost sea grass beds, gone from Bahamas-like clear to dark and murky, etc. etc. They've decided closing off the bay was a bad idea (Duh!) and will spend upwards of $30 million to undo it "in the best interests of all citizens and visitors to our fair county". Shite from professional shite-generators. :mad: :mad:

[safewalrus]

But Charlie it keeps people in work (and some in bribes as if!!) which is good isn't it? So it destroys the environment yes, but it does keep people in work!!

[masalai]

Faaaaaar out you guys, in 12 threads begging my attention ("Beware...", "Global War...", "What Do W...", "Hi again...", "CRUD...", "Random Pi...", "Not all Mil...", "Main-less r...", "Gardening...", "Why is the...", "The Drivel...", "A grumpy...") and as a trained counsellor and having NEVER counselled, I am distressed at the level of things "non-boat" in a "boating design" forum..

[safewalrus]

Oh well I guess YOU used the word "boat" once in this thread! that obviously makes you something special - 'a leg-end in your own lunch time' I guess! Wow, we're not worthy!!:P :P

[masalai]

Don't call me peg-leg for nothing... :D:D:D:D:D:D:

[the1much]

BOAT hehe ;)

[masalai]

Whaaaaat, no abuse??? "BOAT" (to stay on thread)...

[Frosty]

What do you think about the shocking price of carrots these days boat.

[masalai]

I don't eat boat carrot now, I use boat pumpkin - home grown - too easy... G'wan Frosty, bring your boat down and give some of the old dears a thrill???

[safewalrus]

Boat turnips are pretty good to! mix em with the carrots and they get better!!

Have a bit o' gravy as well, best put that in a gravy boat!!!!

[the1much]

now i want a "thanksgiving diner",,,,,,,,ch!t im hungry ;) :P

[safewalrus]

Easter egg do? (mmmmmm chocolate)

[Frosty]

Easter egg???

They give you one at the retard school? can you tell the difference between Easter and Christmas Safe,-- yeah I know who cares theres food in it.

So youlle be going to your "special" school in your 'Father Christmas' outfit this week? ----- Climate--phew hot today.

[safewalrus]

Easter egg???

They give you one at the retard school? can you tell the difference between Easter and Christmas Safe,-- yeah I know who cares theres food in it.



Check your machine Snowy, it's very slow!! It's March over here, what time is it in Tieland? (thought it would be too hot to wear a tie over there)

[masalai]

Safie Thai m'boy, thai that part of the leg above the knee but below paradise:D:D:D:D

[safewalrus]

Yeah, I can see why it's not quite paradise!! Frosty's there!

He'd turn anywhere into hell! Its all those Indian curries he likes (that was why he went to India on that old clapped out bike wasn't it? to get a decent curry?)

[masalai]

On topic, as little as possible - waiting for further changes to impact politically dead brains.

[safewalrus]

in their boat shaped coffins of course! to bring us back to where we were, where were we?

[masalai]

Naaaah Safie the navigation software package is called FUGAWE as in the TV series "F Troop" for the kiddies and the friendly indian tribe was the Fugawe (were-the-fug-awe) - How that got past the US and Aussy censors I don't know...

[safewalrus]

Ses one thing tho don't it, censors is not on the same planet, eh Cap'n Pugwash (is Seaman Staines still onboard?)

[Pericles]

Time for an update on sunspot activity. Cycle 24 is still delayed and the significance of that will be explained in the linked pages.

http://ncwatch.typepad.com/dalton_minimum_returns/

http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/03/20/new-solar-cycle-24-goalpost-established/

http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/new-sunspot-but-still-a-solar-cycle-23-spot/#comment-10650

http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/new-sunspot-but-still-a-solar-cycle-23-spot/#comment-10650

http://ncwatch.typepad.com/dalton_minimum_returns/files/Solar_Arch_NY_Mar2_08.pdf

I'd say enjoy the reading, but it's not good news, so I shall not be vindictive.

Perry

[longliner45]

today I had a conversation with a starlifter crew chief,he flys to antartica monthly,he said that 10 yrs ago,a chunk of ice 100 miles long and 20 miles wide,,broke off ,, this year another,,about 100 miles long and 20 wide broke off nothing new,,it happens, last year the same thing ,,nobody was paying attention,,it happens all the time,,,somthing sank titantic?,,,mars is getting hotter on the suface,,,,,,,the sky is not falling,,,,,just a change,,a few degrees,,colder or hotter,,remember ,,it says in the bible ,,,,,man will not destroy the earth,,,dont sweat the small stuff,,longliner

[the1much]

1 of these days im gonna wake up dead,,i know it,,hehe ;)

[masalai]

That I know Longie, - - but nothing about US (not USA - but you & I), stupid humans doing the destroying!!!

[eponodyne]

I'd rather put my faith in cold hard numbers, verified by peer review and obtained by the scientific method than the inarticulate rantings of a bunch of dead goatherders.

[artemis]

I'd rather put my faith in cold hard numbers, verified by peer review and obtained by the scientific method than the inarticulate rantings of a bunch of dead goatherders.

Here now. Don't be talking about Safie or Snowball like that. They're friends a mine! :D

[masalai]

About JeffMasters: http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=923&tstamp=200804
JeffMasters Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. at Michigan. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

About RickyRood: http://www.wunderground.com/blog/RickyRood/show.html
RickyRood I'm a professor at U of Michigan and lead a course on climate change and how it interplays with business, and policy, and ... That's the blog source.

eponodyne, would these two gentlemen qualify as being knowledgeable and worthy of your "approval"? - read their blogs - relevant and current...

[flipper08]

The human caused "Global Warming" scam is absolutely rediculous. I wonder what Al G will have to say about it in ten years. Honestly; he doesn't care. He owns a hedge fund which sells carbon offsets. SUCKERS buy into this nonsense.

[safewalrus]

Here now. Don't be talking about Safie or Snowball like that. They're friends a mine! :D

Fear not Artemis he said "Goat HERDERS" not Goat SHA**ERS" so we're safe, not sure about the rest of 'em but we is!

(or the goats even :D )

[the1much]

did someone say GOAT??,,where?,,,lemme get my rubber boots so i can stick their back legs in em and they cant get away hehe ;)
man them goats are mean when ya pull dere tail hehe ;)

[Manie B]

Trust nobody

[safewalrus]

Looks like a good guy Manie, I might just vote for him...........if he's a member of the right Party...............the Cocktail Party springs to mind!

[the1much]

All these examples do NOT imply that gasoline is cheap; it just illustrates how outrageous some prices are.
You will be really shocked by the last one (at least, I was)!!!



Think a gallon of gas is expensive?




This makes one think, and also puts things into perspective.



Diet Snapple, 16 oz, $1.29 ... $10.32 per gallon!

Lipton Ice Tea, 16 oz, $1.19 ... $9.52 per gallon!

Gatorade, 20 oz, $1.59 ..... $10.17 per gallon!

Ocean Spray, 16 oz, $1.25 .. $10.00 per gallon!



Brake Fluid, 12 oz, $3.15 .... $33.60 per gallon!

Vick's Nyquil, 6 oz, $8.35 ... $178.13 per gallon!

Pepto Bismol,4 oz, $3.85 . $123.20 per gallon!

Whiteout, 7 oz, $1.39 ......... $25.42 per gallon!

Scope, 1.5 oz, $0.99 ....$84.48 per gallon!


And this is the REAL KICKER.

Evian water, 9 oz, $1.49 ...$21.19 per gallon!
$21.19 for a gallon of WATER!!
and the buyers don't even know the source
(Evian spelled backwards is Naive.)

Ever wonder why computer printers are so cheap? So they can hook you for the ink. Someone calculated the cost of the ink at, you won't believe it but it's true; $5,200 a gal.
$5200 A GALLON!!!

So, the next time you're at the pump, be glad your car doesn't run on water, Scope, Whiteout, Pepto Bismol, Nyquil or, God forbid, Printer Ink!!!!!
hehe ;)

[the1much]

sorry,,,after i posted i relized it wasnt the "oil" thread hehe,,,,time fer meds ;)

[masalai]

You have a serious side, and your concern is noted - also in "oil", what a ****** up world we have made - take humans out and this place is very pleasant - we humans are a total disappointment to God - any God would righteously be really pissed off with the outcome so far... in all directions...

I cannot think of many people who would deserve any chance of ascension to heaven. - - Especially exclude any suicide bombers - taking life is against ALL religious teachings. - - The fingers on my left hand would be more than sufficient...

[safewalrus]

No good me going to heaven, don't know anybody up there!! Be bored to ............hehe.............Hell!

[masalai]

Arrrrgh, you would have those lovely ladies wearing stern faces and black cloaks all carrying firearms, making sure the "virgin seekers" get the right message he he he ...

[safewalrus]

Ah yes, but wouldn't it be enjoyable when the 'virgin seekers' find that the deal was not 72 Virgins but actually a 72 year old Virgin!! Carrying a cross and a gun!!:P

[the1much]

WASHINGTON - Planet Earth continues to run a fever. Last month was the warmest March on record over land surfaces of the world and the second warmest overall worldwide. For the United States, however, it was just an average March, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration reported Thursday.

NOAA's National Climatic Data Center said high temperatures over much of Asia pulled the worldwide land temperature up to an average of 40.8 degrees Fahrenheit (4.9 degrees Celsius), 3.2 degrees (1.8 C) warmer than the average in the 20th century.


Complete analysis: http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2008/mar/mar08.html

[masalai]

The1, if you keep this up you may end up with a brain fart, but what a way to go - as the intellectual power of this net... Good work Sir... - Alas only "tokens" are available for the giving - maybe you have enough of those anyway...

Thanks...

[masalai]

Pericles, I feel this news item is contra to your view, but what the heck - read on -

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/02/18/2165601.htm
Research shows Southern Ocean wind currents weakening
Climate scientists are celebrating 15 years of Southern Ocean monitoring from the French Antarctic supply ship Astrolabe (CSIRO: Dale Kolody)

A 15-year research project has revealed that changes in wind patterns are contributing to rising sea temperatures in the Southern Ocean.

...

[safewalrus]

Just a couple of items - I bet the crew of the Astrolobe are mighty hacked off - I mean 15 years recording weather conditions, don't they ever get to port for a few beers and other things?

the Other thing.....................................................will you guys stop doing this cut and paste thing? by the time I've read all the absolute rubbish that you stick in here I ain't got time to go read anything else! The last time I read a newspaper it said the American Civil War was ended! is this true? who won? why? Is that the side Micky Mouse fought on?

[Guest-3-12-09-9-21]

It snowed at my house yesterday...if this global warming crap keeps up I am going to freeze my ass off!

[Guillermo]

What's the truth? Global warming or Ice Age....?
http://www.iceagenow.com/

I think the only truth is a lot of people is making money on the speculation!

Cheers.

[Guillermo]

But this sounds sensible to my ears:

The Coming of a New Ice Age

BY GERALD E. MARSH
Retired physicist from the Argonne National Laboratory and a former consultant to the Department of Defense on strategic nuclear technology and policy in the Reagan, Bush, and Clinton Administration.
http://gemarsh.com/

http://www.gemarsh.com/wp-content/uploads/THE%20COMING%20OF%20A%20NEW%20ICE%20AGE.pdf

"Contrary to the conventional wisdom of the day, the real danger facing humanity is not global warming, but more likely the coming of a new Ice Age.

What we live in now is known as an interglacial, a relatively brief period between long ice ages. Unfortunately for us, most interglacial periods last only about ten thousand years, and that is how long it has been since the last Ice Age ended.

How much longer do we have before the ice begins to spread across the Earth’s surface? Less than a hundred years or several hundred? We simply don’t know.

Even if all the temperature increase over the last century is attributable to human activities, the rise has been relatively modest one of a little over one degree Fahrenheit — an increase well within natural variations over the last few thousand years.

...

NASA has predicted that the solar cycle peaking in 2022 could be one of the weakest in centuries and should cause a very significant cooling of Earth’s climate. Will this be the trigger that initiates a new Ice Age?

We ought to carefully consider this possibility before we wipe out our current prosperity by spending trillions of dollars to combat a perceived global warming threat that may well prove to be only a will-o-the-wisp."


And this sounds even more sensible:

"AL GORE won an Academy Award for his skillfully done film, “An Inconvenient Truth.” It was well-deserved. Had he given as good a performance during his campaign for president, he would have won in a landslide. As environmental drama, it only can be compared with Michael Crichton’s novel, State of Fear. Both have elements of scientific and political fact, and both are excellent fiction."


Cheers.