Cruising Sailboat Hullform

[Wolczko]

I was wondering if anyone knows of any kind of hullform database-type resources pertaining to cruising sailboats. Even a good website with some different boats' design and/or performance characteristics would be good. Thanks for any tips!

[SeaSpark]

http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html

From the site:

You can use it to look up sailboat parameters in a large database of boats, or enter your own boat and compare to the others. In addition, for any boat you can calculate a set of quantities that will help you measure how it will perform.

This version was last modified on 01/18/2008 21:14:46 and contains 1996 boats.

[PAR]

Cruising boats are the most difficult for a designer to undertake. They run the full spectrum from de-tuned racers fitted for voyaging to Colin Archer types that can't get out of their own way, but can pack away a whole house of gear, with every possible combination in between.

The cruiser is more a state of mind, then a hull type. Each person has individual requirements in a hull that others may not necessary share. Some will have nothing but a full keel, I prefer divided appendages with a shoal draft, everyone is different. Many will talk about D/L ratios and roll moments, but none will be ideal for you specifically, without experience on different types of hull forms.

Honest answers about your needs and desires in a cruiser, that only you can provide and your keenly acquired preferences, will guide you to a general pattern, which will ultimately be the hull form you want (or at least think you want).

Atkins, Benford, Herreshoff and quite a few others have specialized in cruisers, but you have to know what you want. It's a bit like asking "what's the best automobile type, to take on long trips". There's no correct reply, just questions you have to answer, based on your experience and personal preferences.

[Paul B]

Atkins, Benford, Herreshoff and quite a few others have specialized in cruisers, but you have to know what you want.

Really? Are you sure?

[masalai]

Like par made clear, several times, "...your needs and desires...", "...Each person has individual requirements...", "...without experience on different types of hull forms...", "...you have to know what you want..."

For the older generation, those are familiar names not often mentioned by "young whipper-snappers" :D, but still worthy of consideration as per first line....

I agree with par's suggestion, to get out and look around, sail, and gather personal experiences from which to develop your own personal preferences as to which cruiser for your cruising region.

Start with who will be living on board, where will you be cruising, how independently of civilisation should your set-up be, will you keep the boat in a marina & venture out weekends, are you financially independent, The list goes on and on.

[Wolczko]

Thanks very much for all of your advice; unfortunately I am not quite in the market for a boat, however. I am actually thinking along the lines of producing a design, and I am interested in finding or creating a parametric database which can aid me in, among other things, shaping the hull. I was just wondering if there were any resources I wasn't aware of that I could use to that end.

SeaSpark's post was very helpful (Thanks!), but I'm also interested in more detail about the boats, such as block coefficient and others or some other data about the hull shape. Thanks to you all for your thoughts.

[masalai]

Wolczko,
Good to see we did not discourage you any. For entertainment download FreeShip 2.6 - as many on this net seem to use same, & if you cannot find that but get redirected to DelftShip, there is a free version there (which is what FreeShip has become in going "commercial").... It seems that the file format changes so when you present a file for peer review, specify your version.

Other members like Rhino 3 - there are polls & other info on design packages in this net - do a search, it is effective.

[brothwell]

I recommend you read the new Yacht Design According to Perry. He has a number of case studies along with design preferences and justifications.

[TeddyDiver]

John Vigors The seaworthy Offshore Sailboat opens up some insight into the subject.:cool:
That is unless one wants to make one more Bavaria/Beneteau/Addanymajorbrandcomesintomind:p

[SeaSpark]

When you search and ask around, collected data from rating systems like ims, irc and orc will yield comparative figures. Hence you are looking for the bottom line performance boats (cruisers instead of flat out racers) these numbers are more readably available.

Not comparative data from http://www.oossanen.nl/ :

[Wolczko]

Thank you again to all of you for your suggestions. I have seen a couple of these before, and I agree that these are good sources. I will look up Perry's book, and I am very much enjoying van Oossanen's work. There seems to be a good deal of information about test results which are in the public domain that I'll have to look further into. Thanks! I'll be continuing to look around to see what I can find about these more readily available numbers for cruisers...

Cheers,
Wolczko

[Tad]

From Principles of Yacht Design....

Very extensive series of tests with models of sailing yachts have been carried out by Professor J. Gerritsma and his co-workers at the Delft University of Technology in the Netherlands. The first series was run in the 1970's and comprised 22 models with a systematic variation of 5 different hull parameters.

These first hulls were derived from a Frans Maas designed parent hull. During the 1980's a new parent (more modern lighter displacement form) was designed by Van De Stadt & Partners, with 17 models derived from this parent.

Some info on these tests is presented in the book, but also get the papers by Gerritsma.

Tad

[Brent Swain]

Skenes Elements of Yacht Design is a good reference for basic calculations, altho the author has absolutely no understanding of hull balance ,as I found out the hard way.
Douglas Phillips Burt also has a good book on design.
Brent

[Wolczko]

Thanks very much Brent and Tad... I hadn't heard of Prof. Gerritsma before, and I will certainly get those papers.

Cheers for that :)
Wolczko

[mgpedersen]

From Principles of Yacht Design....

Very extensive series of tests with models of sailing yachts have been carried out by Professor J. Gerritsma and his co-workers at the Delft University of Technology in the Netherlands. The first series was run in the 1970's and comprised 22 models with a systematic variation of 5 different hull parameters.

Tad


There was a nice followup paper published at the HISWA Symposium that took the information a little further. There's enough math here to make most anyone happy. However, even if you did a perfect optimization, there is no guarantee that you'll get a good boat. However, it is fun!

http://www.hiswasymposium.com/symposium_papers.asp

[Tad]

Yes, good link mgp. The HISWA collection of papers is a great resource. See paper #9 from 2002, and #3 from 96.

Brent did you see paper #10 from 2002, on sailing yacht balance?

Another good collection is at http://www.sailboat-technology.com/links/online_articles.php

[Brent Swain]

No. I haven't seen paper 10. Where can I find it?
Brent

[Wolczko]

Brent,
It's available at the link mgp posted. It's close to the bottom of the page. Thanks very much to mgp and Tad for those posts!

[Landlubber]

Paul B,

Are you questioning whether Herreshoff designed cruisers?

Try the H28, H36 etc etc. They are good cruising boats. Sure the design are old style, but that is irrelevant, they were very good cruisers in their time.

One point about cruising boats though that i would like to make, having had some beautiful looking old fellas, and some modern yachts too, do not get a design that is too slow. The boat HAS to perform. Any boat that takes over 100 degrees (on the compass too please) between tacks is not much chop as a sailing boat. My belief is that 100 is the maximum allowable.

[Paul B]

Paul B,

Are you questioning whether Herreshoff designed cruisers?



No.

I was responding to the comment, "..Herreshoff and quite a few others have specialized in cruisers.."

Neither Capt. Nat nor L. Francis "specialized" in cruisers. They were both well involved in state of the art racing boat design.

If you read The Common Sense of Yacht Design by L. Francis you will see his opinion of what makes a good boat, and it is quite the opposite of what many people (who have not read his writings) attribute to him.

[Landlubber]

OK, no worries, I see your point, yes, you are quite correct, they did not "specialise" in cruisers. They just happened to design quite a few.

They were really into some beautiful design though.