Sailing Experience and “Ships Papers”

[Trevlyns]

Two part query this, guys.

Despite a similarly entitled thread (here (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20371)) I’d appreciate some comment on the following…

Part 1. Here’s my scenario. I’m just a regular guy with his missus building a small yacht and have an insatiable desire to set sail and cruise the great blue yonder. Done a lot of dinghy sailing, had (now lost) a competent crew certificate – many years ago. Done nothing since except maintain a high level of interest and study navigation and yacht design. [No certificates – just take my word for it!]


Could I hypothetically just hop on my yacht with my lovely lady and sail around the world?


I’m speaking of course from a “legal” point of view. We all know about these fancy priced Yachtmaster Ocean certificates, but is it writ that you must have one?

What if we just took off from Falmouth UK and “happened” to land on the other side of the pond – Chesapeake Bay (US) for example? Would the authorities turn me back to the UK because I’m not EXPERIENCED? Could I have even gained my experience by the crossing? Indeed, would we even be allowed to leave Falmouth?

Part 2. What are (or constitutes) Ships Papers? I hear these must be produced at points of entry. Assuming my boat is self designed and constructed, what would my papers consist of? What about insurance… compulsory or just a conspiracy by insurance companies? I heard you cannot be insured if you cross the Atlantic with a crew of less than 3. Does that infer that you can cross with two and no insurance?

Inevitably there’ll be the “purist” opinions concerning experience and raising flags at sunset and the rest. I read a lot about that and respect it. But what about the simple DESIRE to accomplish a lifelong dream. Using the KISS principle. Being confident in your own abilities. Just DOING it…

Again I’m drawn to my interest in the Polynesians thousands of years ago. Do you think they had insurance, GPS, fiberglass repair kit?

Has the spirit of pure adventure been banned?

Dear friends, your comments are so important – I look forward to some interesting reading. Especially from the pure cruising folk out there.

Best!!

[marshmat]

Trev,
I've been wondering the same thing myself. Haven't been able to get any clear answers yet from the Canada Shipping Act although that thing is such a damned dry read that it will probably take a while.

No doubt the requirements, if any, differ from country to country.

"Ship's papers" on my boat (five metres LOA, definitely NOT an ocean-going vessel) consist essentially of a Compliance Label / Capacity Plate (permanently affixed to the boat) and a Pleasure Craft Licence / Permis d'Embarcations de Plaisance (which assigns those registration numbers that go on the bow, and adds the boat to the Coast Guard's database). I also have three cards for the trailer- ownership, licence, and insurance. Somehow though, I suspect there will be additional papers needed for a vessel that goes overseas.

So, in addition to Trev's call for the British perspective, it may prove valuable to hear what might be expected of someone flying the flag of Australia, Canada, the USA, etc? Or what such countries would expect a foreigner to present on arrival?

[safewalrus]

From the UK view point, you basically don't need anything if its for pleasure and under 45 feet LOA (whatever that is in metres).

Having said that I would take some things no matter where I went, your passports and visa's obviously! Proof of ownership of the boat of course! The best way of doing this is by getting the boat registered! Either RYA or full Registration at Cardiff, for the small pleasure vessel both are fairly easy and reasonably cheap and do give certain rights etc (especially the Full Registration). Proof of qualifications of any sort do come in handy, in some parts of the world you may get into port but you certainly won't get out without them (as stated being a fully Registered British Vessel is very useful in these situations) but as I said you DON'T have to; but it makes sense to hve as much as possible.......in the first instance try either the internet or telephone the RYA (Royal Yacht Association). In Trev's case your on the doorstep mate!

That lot was off the top of my head so may have changed a bit over the last couple of years (terrorism and all that stuff) but basically it's much the same!

[Kay9]

Same for the US. Except the size limit. If its a pleasure boat, no licenses needed for the skipper. You will need documentation of ownership though.

K9

[Trevlyns]

Top info there, Mike – Thanks. Tried to give you some points but Jeff won’t let me!

Thanks also for your interest Matt – hope we’ll get a good grounding in this “mystery of the seas”

Thanks too, K9 – could you perhaps elaborate a bit on documentation of ownership? Could this just be (in my case as designer/builder) receipts for the purchase of woods, resins paint etc?

[marshmat]

Proof of ownership in Canada is the Pleasure Craft Licence / Permis d'Embarcations de Plaisance; this is the document which associates your name with your boat's HIN and assigns its registry number. Here, it's free of charge. I think the US and Britain have a similar document, albeit with a different title and process (and possibly a fee)?

The mandatory proof-of-competency in Canada for pleasure craft under 20 tonnes is the Pleasure Craft Operator Card, probably one of the easiest certifications you can obtain (can you tell which side of a red buoy to stay on? Which of these combinations makes a sailboat's nav lights? How many lifejackets must a 9 passenger runabout carry? etc.) and good for life once obtained. Add a marine radiotelephone licence for your VHF, MF, SSB, etc. gear and operator.

[deepsix]

There is a bit of info here which might help :)
http://www.rya.org.uk/KnowledgeBase/boatingabroad/boatingabroadpaperwork.htm

[Kay9]

In the US You have to fill out some forms that show you are the owner/builder. At that point the USCG will Issue you vessel documentation papers. Most US states will also do this. If intrested I can post a link for the USCG and the state of Oregon.

I think you will need something from your country of origin, that officially states you own the boat.

Hope this help.
K9

[Trevlyns]

Great link there Deepsix. It clears up a lot of points - thanks!

K9, I'm sure Matt would benefit from the US link.

[Kay9]

here ya go.
http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/document.htm
http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/doc0101.htm
http://uscgboating.org/about/faqs/regulations.aspx

[kwb1312]

Mind that your Maritime Radio Operator’s Certificate of Competence has to match the equipment you have on board. Even if cruising coastal waters only, if you have an VHF/HF radio you need a Long Range Certificate, your SRC is not enough.

[MikeJohns]

Trev

Good idea, go and do it before the years wear you out !

You need ships papers, a radio license is a good idea if you have HF on board. Vessels foreign to the country of entry outside of Europe are cleared in and out without requirements other than ships papers and passports/visas and a Zarpe (clearance from last port).

Within Europe between countries you may be required to furnish the port captain with insurance certificates, proof of competency to handle the vessel and the ships papers. But clearing out of the UK for a port outside of Europe should be simpler.

Papers can be small boat registry in the UK or full ship registration. Similalrly in the USA you can go offshore on either state or USCG registration. In Australia we have to have full ships registration.

If you lose your zarpe you may be denied clearance to leave until they have checked you out at your cost.

www.Noonsite.com is a very good site to peruse and it has all the entry procedures for all coutries regularly updated. I download the whole website onto a CD and take it with me now...invaluable resource.

cheers

[Trevlyns]

That’s why I love this forum!

Ask a simple question and you get so much informative and helpful information..

Well done and thanks to everyone.

Now, let’s just build the ruddy boat. :D

[Ike]

First you. You do not need any licenses, papers whatever. As long as it is a pleasure vessel you can sail anywhere you want with a passport and some other form of ID such as a birth certificate. The second one is a "just in case" thing.

The boat. Yes you can sail with either CG documentation or a state registration (I'm talking USA now) but you would be a lot better off with USCG documentation if traveling to foreign ports. Documentation is what is normally meant when referring to "ships papers" In many countries a registration from a US state holds no weight with the local authorities and you have to demonstrate proff of ownership. Documentation does all of that for you. But you vessel must net at least 5 tons under the USCG Measurement rule. Most boats 30 feet and up qualify.

Not required but a good thing to do is also prepare a "ships manifest" That is simply a list of everything on board, especially high ticket items, booze and firearms. DONT Take firearms with you unless you know ahead of time if you can take them into the country you are going to.

[safewalrus]

The boat. Yes you can sail with either CG documentation or a state registration (I'm talking USA now) but you would be a lot better off with USCG documentation if traveling to foreign ports.

I can think of a few places where the LAST thing I'd want would be any kind of US documentation - the main ones begin with IR.....

[Ike]

Right on Walrus. That comes under the heading of CYA. Know where you're going. Actually there is a travel book whose title escapes me at the moment, that lists the most dangerous places, places you should not go. I would think if I were doing some world cruising, that book should be on my shelf and well used.

These things change though. In the 70's the CG cutter I was on was scheduled to go to Spain. They told us right up front don't go ashore in uniform, don't have any thing on you that outwardly screams "American". I transfered to another ship so I didn't go. But of course now Spain loves us so I supposed it's all different. We got the same lecture when we were going to Colombia on another Cutter. Unfortunately the ship broke down and we spent a week in the yards and didn't go.

So, yeah. There are places you don't want to go!