survey question

[Razgo]

I was looking at yet another cruiser but its in the 50K range. Steel Hull 36'. If i had it surveyed before purchase is that good enough to tell me the hull is ok? it was apparently made in 1966 maker unknown. Engine is a Ford Lees 84 HP - fresh water cooled 4 cylinder diesel - shaft drive driving athree blade fixed propeller.

thanks

[Razgo]

some pics

http://www.aussiecommunity.com.au/boats/tas/DisplayImage.jpg

http://www.aussiecommunity.com.au/boats/tas/DisplayImage2.jpg

http://www.aussiecommunity.com.au/boats/tas/DisplayImage3.jpg

http://www.aussiecommunity.com.au/boats/tas/DisplayImage4.jpg

http://www.aussiecommunity.com.au/boats/tas/DisplayImage6.jpg

http://www.aussiecommunity.com.au/boats/tas/DisplayImage7.jpg

http://www.aussiecommunity.com.au/boats/tas/DisplayImage8.jpg

http://www.aussiecommunity.com.au/boats/tas/DisplayImage9.jpg

http://www.aussiecommunity.com.au/boats/tas/DisplayImage91.jpg

http://www.aussiecommunity.com.au/boats/tas/Lara (10).JPG

http://www.aussiecommunity.com.au/boats/tas/Lara (14).JPG

http://www.aussiecommunity.com.au/boats/tas/Lara (15).JPG

http://www.aussiecommunity.com.au/boats/tas/Lara (17).JPG

http://www.aussiecommunity.com.au/boats/tas/Lara (18).JPG

http://www.aussiecommunity.com.au/boats/tas/Lara (22).JPG

http://www.aussiecommunity.com.au/boats/tas/Lara (24).JPG

http://www.aussiecommunity.com.au/boats/tas/Lara on Slip (1).JPG

http://www.aussiecommunity.com.au/boats/tas/Lara on Slip (2).JPG

http://www.aussiecommunity.com.au/boats/tas/Lara on Slip (3).JPG

http://www.aussiecommunity.com.au/boats/tas/Lara on Slip (4).JPG

[Pericles]

Razgo,

You could address your questions here. http://www.marinesurvey.org/au.html or http://www.aimsurveyors.com.au/offbrs.shtml Like surveying a house before purchase. The report will help negotiate the price down.

You will get the information you want from the horse's mouth, so to speak.:D

Pericles

[Razgo]

Excellent! thanks as i would never have found those links in a million years. Just as long the survey doesn't force the price up :(

But after taking into consideration build date 1966, engine hours unknown, I could go a lot lower in price for sure. It will mean a plane flight though to do the "subject to sea worthy and survey results" and inspect her but it would be worth it because so far it seems to have everything I need in a boat. Steel, can go offshore, live aboard, wheelchair access rear to helm/main cabin area.

not sure if it has a shower as the pics don't specifically show it but i think there is one there.

The only downside was that is was so far away from across the bass strait. But the upside is i have an engineer friend who lives near by where the boat is and he is going to go down and take a video of it and send it up on DVD and inspect the moter as he has an engineers ticket, and he loves steel(currently teaches metal work)

[Pericles]

Razgo,

I think you should build. You'll know where the bodies are buried.:p :p

http://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=732

http://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=750

https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=395

https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=889

https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=847

https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=399

https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=397

https://www.boatdesigns.com/departments.asp?dept=11

Humour me with this one.:D

http://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=761

Pericles

[Pericles]

Razgo,

Seen this?

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?p=177656#post177656

Pericles

[Razgo]

Hi Pericles, I think life & time is too short for me at the moment to spend on building. I would love too but i think it would simply take me too long and I would have to have someone build it for me. Then the costs would escalate somewhat.

Once i have one in the water then i might consider it. So in the meantime i need to hunt down an ideal complete boat to suit my needs without costing me a fortune. And it does seem bargains to come and go quite often in the boating world. I believe if the above boat turns out to be in great shape I would get it for a bargain.

If i had to build one from scratch it would be 2 years? and perhaps more costly.

But i certainly enjoy the thought of building from plans as they are some great boat plans there.

[Gilbert]

Razgo,
I think your approach here is sound. It's largely a matter of "Do I want to use a boat or build one?"

[Razgo]

Hi Gilbert, thats very true. At first i thought it would be just too expensive trying to buy a boat and thought perhaps it would be better to find one cheaper and fix it up.

However what i am finding is boats come and go all the time. I have also seen comments where boats are advertised say for 50K and then a year later advertised for 25K as an example.

This tells me there is always room for negotiations when purchasing a boat. For me i won't buy on emotion.

I look at exactly what i need then tailor a budget to suite me, and then find a seller that matches my needs and budget and stick to that.

At first I had not spent a lot of time researching but after a few weeks now I am surprised at how many millions of boats that are out there all sorts of shapes and sizes. It just doesn't seem to end. I mean i can spend 8 hrs a day looking at boats but as fast as your looking at them there are more boats coming and going online. It just simply amazes me. So from my point of view I am looking at this as a buyers market and simply bide my time to get the one I want.

Hopefully it will payoff and my wife and I are boating in no time :)

[rwatson]

Razgo has some good advice there.
It intrigues me that the main shots of the boat were of the interior, not one of the engine bay etc.
I always look at the key elements first, ie. the engine, especially where you are looking at the sole source of propulsion. Also, the costs of repairing an engine are always the most horrendous.
Using Razgos insights, we might get a boat for say $30k (down from $50k) , find that access to the engine, the sub standard wiring, the "impossible to access" drive shaft and a dozen other smaller things including slipway costs etc , could easily cost .... what, $15k worst case ? - and 9 months of no boat use.
Even the best surveyor will have trouble verifying the state of an engine.
Combine the 'Razgo Rule' - "Dont buy on emotion" with Murphys Rule No 7 "Everything that goes wrong will cost 5 times as much to fix as the seller estimated" when considering a boat purchase.

[Razgo]

Yes, when i asked about the engine the boat dealer said the hours were unknown and to always get a mechanic to check before buying anyway.

However it will be a case if personal inspection and having friends who are mechanics might be able to find out more about the motor condition. being a ford i am guessing parts will be readily available. I am guessing a sail to test the motor would revela most problems to a good mechanic?

[Pericles]

Razgo,

Go to http://www.glen-l.com/ and search on News letters for issue 93. The article by Rick Klemm on the building of Bo-Jest should interest you. He built the vessel for $20K over 2 years and its been valued at $60K. Note, it does not take too many breakdowns to permanently discourage the fairer sex from boating.

Also see this http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/rust.html from http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20841

Pericles

[rwatson]

I presume you mean $20K ( thousand) :-)

[Pericles]

rwatson,

Thanks, updated.

Pericles

[Razgo]

Nice boat but way too small for me and 2 years out of my life to build one is not an option now. maybe 10 years ago for sure i would have attempted something like that :)

I actually have just found my ideal boat but a bit out of my budget range at the moment at AUD$130K

Boden Steel Flybridge Cruiser
twin 80hp Perkins diesels
a large inventory of electronics including Furuno radar, GPS, Auto pilot, depth sounder, VHF - UHF - UF radios, three large solar panels and a 2000ltr fuel capacity.

[Razgo]

What this story http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/rust.html
fails to tell us i show much did he pay? what did the surveyor price the boat at? surely this surveyor can be reported?

I would also assume not all surveyors are the same but that is sure an eye opener :eek:

[Pericles]

Razgo,

You could contact Bob Norson about the surveyor either through his posts on the forum tcpbob or via his publication. http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/recent_issues.html

Good luck,

Pericles

[Razgo]

nah, I am not that interested in chasing up the full story. You can chase it up if you want too.

[rwatson]

Hey Razgo - now you know why so many people prefer to build, and why I was so keen for you to look 'inside' the boat. My experience was with an engine - as you might have guessed.
Plenty of Surveyors get caught out like this. Some will never survey wooden boats, others will not look at certain classes. Imagine a wooden boat new owner finding the entire keel is eaten out by Toredo worm! At least with steel, you have a chance of resurrecting your investment somewhat.
The big rule is - what you cant see, assume is bad, and do your costings accordingly.
In many cases neither the owner nor the surveyor 'know' things are bad (though the owener may have a gut feeling) - and no-one will do destruction tests to check.

On steel boats - its always best to see the hull *before* they put that shiny new coat on. If not, quiz the actual painter (not the owner or agent) on the type of paint, application method, preparation method and ask for photos if there are any. I have even looked in the dumpster to see what paints were actually used - that can be very revealing. I would even pay to have a section of hull scraped back to check the work - whats a few hundred dollars for a $30k investment.
Dont get me started on electricals ......
Caveat Bloody Emptor - with big yellow warning signs!!

[Razgo]

hi rwatson, yes i guess its similar to buying cars or homes only to find out the house is full of white ants and the car diff falls out 4 weeks later.

certainly is buyer beware.

and thats good advice to pay for some paint scraping/repair to investigate further. I guess talking about this stuff to a surveyor before hand too might reveal some surveyors are ruthless whilst others are layback?

either way lots of observation and viewing does seem to the the key.

so yeah i can understand why people build so they know what they are getting. for me i will just have to take all the precautions and make sure i check thoroughly.

[Pericles]

Read this man http://www.yachtsurvey.com/

His online articles are eye openers.:confused:

Update, read every one of his favourites.

Pericles

[rwatson]

Hey - I dont know what all the fuss with the Survey is
The fine print says
"No defects were noted "

It doesnt say he looked!!! :-)

[Razgo]

i couldn't see a favorites section. you got any direct links as there is a lot of stuff o that site. I did find a 2 part story on bilge pumps i found extremly benificial http://www.docksidereports.com/small_boat_safety_at_sea.htm and part 2 http://www.docksidereports.com/boat_safety_at_sea_Part_II.htm
thanks

[Pericles]

Bottom of main page. How to Decide if
Buying an Older Boat is Right for You.

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/usedboats.htm is one favourite.

Pericles