How Rare Is This Setup ?

[wooky]

I have an unusual (I think) engine/drive combo. It is a early to mid '70's Chrysler Super Slant Six mated to 270 Volvo drive. It originally came out of a Chrysler "Commando" (if memory serves me correctly). I have searched many, many sites and can't find anyone else who has one (the Six). Nobody lists marine parts, specifically the 2bbl carb and fuel pump, for this engine (the drive, yes I have obtained numbers for some critical parts).

At present time the engine and drive are out of the boat, a 19 foot '72 SeaBird Runabout, while replacing the transom wood and stringers. I plan to outfit a closed cooling setup so that the engine will not have to endure the fresh water corrosion problems, the marine block and head were toasted by a dropped valve from a bad rebuild (done before I obtained the engine/drive) and a known good engine from a car is ready to be installed. I've been told that I can shave the head and block to make it think it's a V-8 and give economy of a six due to a "wild cam", but I don't plan on doing that as I have run it stock and am satisfied that it will do what I need.

How many of these engines are out there and if possible what is the carb number (marine, of course) for this engine. Perhaps even a carb other than a Carter as long as it would work on this engine.

So much I have learned, but still so much to learn as well, THANKS to any replies in advance

[TollyWally]

That might make a mighty fine set up. The table below comes from this website http://www.donsautopages.co.nz/enginespecs.htm

model Bore Stroke Cu. in. HP
225 3.400 4.125 225 105-145
230 3.250 4.630 231 -

Both of these slant six motors are very undersquare (smaller bore longer stroke). More torque at lower rpms and cooler running which is helpful for boatmotors if you're interested in a long running reliable motor. Of course if your tastes run more towards drag boats it won't work out so well. Good luck with your project.

[alan white]

The engines sure must exist out there, since they were made at least through the seventies. Best engine Chrysler ever made, in my opinion.
The 225 cu in was the most popular. Found in virtually every mid size budget car made by Chrysler, Dodge, and Plymouth for many years. You could also probably fit a Chrysler 318 V8 in the same boat, as it was made, I believe, to fit the same tranny. Also a good engine.

Alan

[wooky]

Thanks for the reply TW, I have the basic info on the engine, probably a million or more in Chrysler cars over the years and yes known to be a very strong engine, reliable, and virtually indestructible. My purpose for the boat is for hitting the lakes around here, one just down the street and several more within a hundred miles or so for fishing and cruising, or tied up under a bridge in the heat of the day. Doubtful, but always possible for me to take it to the Gulf of Mexico (the "Bird" was made for the ocean).

As I put in the original post my main concern is the carb, not even sure if the one I have is a marine unit. I've got some time to find the correct one (even if it is other than a Carter), as long as it's a 2bbl marine unit that will work on this engine.

[PAR]

With rejecting and an adapter, you could make any reasonably similar CFM, marine carb work. A quick look at the bowl vents or throttle shafts will usually disclose if it's a marine unit. Automotive units will vent the bowl to the atmosphere, while marine have a return to the venturi and the shafts will probably have seals outside of the bushings.

[alan white]

In the simple days of carburatted cars, there was a lot of inyerchangability from one carb to another---- all that matters is CFM, really, beyond the hole configuration in the manifold and the bolt pattern. A CFM capacity is directly related to venturi size, and so engines with single bbl carbs would be easiest to adapt, as the bolt pattern is very simple to change------ only the venturi diameter needs to be matched. Any marine carburator (as described by PAR) should work as long as it matches the throat capacity of the original (and there's even more leeway than that, though other sizes will require intake manifold modifications, if enlarging, and the engine will consequently be higher powered, and also shorter-lived.

Alan

[wooky]

Thanks PAR and Alan for the replies, I know that these engines are fairly plentiful but my question was how many in a marine setup. On the 318, yes another reliable engine, many cruisers have single and twins. I am on a budget here and have everything needed, engine mounts, wet exhaust, etc. (exhaust is a well made custom stainless job). With the 2bbl carb, I haven't been able to find anyone who carries them anymore, only 4bbl's (I'm guessing for those V-8's and drag boats). The one boat shop up in town won't even talk to me because I don't have a Mercruiser, "..Volvo, we don't have it..". What other engines used a 2bbl (Mercruiser perhaps ?). So as long as the mounting holes and throats line up and are the same size it should be interchangeable. OH, BTW, at rest in the water the engine sits level so a wedge plate shouldn't be needed (none was on it before).

While many who buy boats want the fastest thing on the water, I prefer to just get up on plane and cruise around enjoying the ride and seeing the sights. When fishing, enough room to be comfortable and be able to move around a bit without bumping elbows with everyone aboard works for me. When I bought the "Bird", it was already a project boat (no motor, seats, etc.) but I saw the potential in it. After fitting the Chrysler/Volvo in it I had it on the water just 3 times before the aforementioned valve dropped and ruined the motor. But those 3 times out proved that this is the perfect boat for me and my tastes. THANKS again for the replies.

[PAR]

On the body of the carb, there will be a manufacture (Rochester, Carter, etc.) and assuming some bonehead hasn't removed it, a metal tag, usually attached under one of the carb top hold down screws. The metal tag will ID the specific carb.

How many were produced? Who knows and frankly does it matter? Most 1 and 2 barrel carbs have a very similar base. There are plenty of manufactures out there that still build these smaller carbs. For what it's worth a 225 slant 6 runs great on a 390 Holley 4 barrel, which will probably require a new intake or an adaptor at least. You'll be playing with jets for a while until you get it dialed in, but it's a reasonable upgrade.

My guess is that you have a Ball & Ball (BBD) carb. It can be identified by looking at the front (the bowl side). The accelerator pump is on top of the bowl and the pump rocker arm is straight, with an upsweep (unlike the Stromberg which is bent) and the push rod goes to the right side, where the throttle linkage is. The vacuum choke is on the left side and the hose for it comes off the back of the "barrel".

[wooky]

PAR, you are correct on all points, a Carter Ball and Ball, tag is missing but cast into the outer bowl on the choke side is the number "0-1612", I know the tag would be a better reference but....

As far as how many of these engines were put to marine use, no, doesn't really matter but I was curious because I've never seen another, usually Ford inline sixes and V-8's, Chevy V-8's, and some V-6 Buick engines

[PAR]

In line six's are a logical choice for many small runabouts. They develop lots of torque and have a narrow footprint, low weight, plus are usually slower turning and more economical to operate.

The number you've found on the side is the casting number and not of much use, except to the manufacture, who may be able to tell you which "batch" it came from during its production run.

[PAR]

Sierra remanufactures carbs and have 4 two barrels, on the Rochester base. They're intended as replacements for some of the smaller MerCrusier and OMC setups, but will likely work for your application. Available in 4 different CFM.

[alan white]

Good Going, PAR. You appear to have organized a huge database that is invaluable to answering questions about just about anything nautical. Either that or you spend hours Googling every day. I can't imagine you keep it in your head!
Anyway, I chuckle every time you come back with such detailed information. Too bad there's no Jeopardy game show about boats, huh? But no. Just opera and Shakespere---- and other useless topics.

Alan

[wooky]

Thanks again PAR, I'll look up Sierra tonight and see what I find.

[martinf]

A quick look at the bowl vents or throttle shafts will usually disclose if it's a marine unit. Automotive units will vent the bowl to the atmosphere, while marine have a return to the venturi and the shafts will probably have seals outside of the bushings.

At risk of a stupid question, was the concern raw gas fumes in the engine compartment?
~martin

[Jango]

Yes, not only fumes, but gas itself is posible with an Auto carb.Can be very dangerous in a closed (semi) environment. Even a Tiny Spark and you go BOOM.

Jango

[PAR]

Jango is correct and unfortunately I've actually seen bodies flying through the air as a result of these types of explosions.

Which is why I usually go on a rant when folks come on the board as say things like "when I was younger we did this all the time" or "we use straight auto parts for all our marine assemblies and have no problems" etc. These people clearly are talking out their asses or haven't a clue, because once you see the bodies flying through the air, it kind of takes all the wind out of your argument.

[martinf]

Thanks guys,
The reason I ask is that I'm purchasing an old WWII boat that has a pair of Chrystler straight 8's (Royals). They have 2 carter carbs on each and I just assumed that they were standard carbs, but perhaps they are marine-specific? (based on what you said). It just never occured to me that they did anything different where the throttle plate bushings, etc. are, but it sure makes sense.
Just another reason why I'm leaning on re-powering it to some 371 detroit diesels. I don't want to flinch every time I turn the key (even with first running a blower). And speaking of, what about those blowers? I assume that any blower that's old is a standard dc motor with an armature and brushes that spark ocassionally....
~martin

[PAR]

The old marine blower motors would have had a "spark arresting" screen installed around the commutator end of the motor, preventing sparks from escaping.

Restoring a vintage engine has to be justified somehow. An old Packard 12 or other valuable engine is easy to quantify, especially in a full up restoration, where the authentic engine(s) is desired. Given a choice, modern engines are far and away better suited. Parts availability, reparability, etc. can make the selection easy at times.

Unless you have a desire for those old Royals, then you're much better off with a newer, easier to live with set of engines.

[wooky]

Yes, fumes are a concern because of the nature of gasoline, even though I have a bilge blower and the "air scoops" (don't know what the things are called, one faces forward the other rearward). The 3 times I took the boat out I didn't have the doghouse (engine cover) mounted but ran the blower anyway (good habit to get into). Judging from what information I have now, it seems that the previous owner of my engine installed an automotive carb, the vent doesn't turn back down onto the carb. This will be remedied before I take it out again, after completing the repairs to the hull (transom wood, stringers, sole-deck). After this fairly complete overhaul I should have a virually new boat that will last another 30+ years, and the best part is since I'm doing the work myself I'm estimating that I'll have less than 3 or 4 grand in it total.

[martinf]

The old marine blower motors would have had a "spark arresting" screen installed around the commutator end of the motor, preventing sparks from escaping.

Restoring a vintage engine has to be justified somehow. An old Packard 12 or other valuable engine is easy to quantify, especially in a full up restoration, where the authentic engine(s) is desired. Given a choice, modern engines are far and away better suited. Parts availability, reparability, etc. can make the selection easy at times.

Unless you have a desire for those old Royals, then you're much better off with a newer, easier to live with set of engines.

Yep, that's true. I definately do have an engine worth restoring--an old Sterling Petrel with hardly any hours...doesn't really even need restoring--but these Royals are so much more common, I'm gathering. But, they came with a pallet full of new parts and I'll probably keep them for a while until I see what the fuel consumption rate is. They're pushing 54" props so it can't be very good!

~martin

[powerabout]

I remember working in a few when I was an an apprentice in the late 70's so they made it to Australia as did cars with them but I did grow up in an old marina and we had stuff there that was created since boating began..
Chrysler sterndrives with actual Chrysler legs
V4 OMC sterndrives
direct reverser Mercs
50hp V4 Evinrudes
MerCrusiers that you could wind the leg up sideways with a crank handle inside the boat.
MerCrusiers first diesel
MerCruiser with 409 Chevs

Here's the question of the day.
who can name the only 2 Mercruisers that came with twin carbs..
although 20 years apart( you will need to include performace stuff for one answer)

[tom kane]

Chrysler slant six`es usualy had the carb sitting on a cast set of ram tubes which helps increase torque.The starting point of ram tubes fitted to modern autos.Long ram tubes for low end torque and short tubes for high RPM torque.

[george allard]

I saw a 1960s houseboat, about 40 footer, with twin 225 Chrysler's. The old thing had been completely restored and looked sharp.

[BHOFM]

I worked at an engine shop in the mid seventy's and we
did several of the engines, I think the marine engine
is a bit different than the car and truck version, I think
it had screw in core plugs for one thing and the distributer
hole was bigger, or something, that was a long time ago!

[powerabout]

How about left hand rotation Chris Craft chev V8s driving from the timing case end, a volvo sterndrive!

[2850 Bounty]

As many of us know, Chrysler at one time was big into Marine applications.
They joined right in with the B/W style trans adaptation.

Chrysler had an involvement with Volvo Penta early on as well.
Chrysler even labeled a hull as being "Chrysler".... I worked on one (Chrysler Boat) this past summer.
It used the Mopar 360 V-8 w/ the 280 drive.
All of the drive, with exception to a Borg Warner adapter/drive coupler, was Volvo Penta w/ the Chrysler name on it.

I'm not surprised to hear of the slant six being used back then.

.

[forestfirepro]

Hey there,
I have the same set up in a 19 1/2 foot Sangster. Chrysler M225 Slant 6.
Wondering if any of you folks know where the zincs are on this engine?
Thanks in advance.
Aaron

[Chris Bretter]

hi Chrysler used a Badged Datsun SD22 motor at one time anyone heard of them