Need to decide, epoxy, CPES, and/or Fiberglass?

[Guest]

I'm new to this forum, but I am looking for "outside" opinions. I'm building a 19' douglas fir plywood sailboat (Weekender design). I am already using Smith Coat Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer (CPES) inside and out. This reportedly is made with "natural" wood fibers etc....adding a "flexible" finish. My sources (that are building or have built the same boat) say to fiberglass because the sun will "check" the paint eventually...something about the way the wood is milled or something, the uneven moisture throughout the wood will check the paint if glass cloth isn't used. Others swear by the Smith's Coat and as long as I paint the "half-cured" CPES, it will never check. Both sides of the argument is compelling. Also, I really wanted to epoxy the interior of the boat in order to add a durable finish (in case I drop an anchor or something). But some say the wood wont breathe if moisture gets in...so they recommend not epoxying the interior. If the boat is CPES'd, than is moisture intrusion really an issue here? I just can't get a good consensus of the two above situations. By the way, the doug fir plywood ranges from 1/4 to 1/2 inches thick and it is NOT marine grade. I will be painting the hull with some form of interlux paint, and using epoxy, sand, and paint on the deck (for traction). The boat will probably have very few "bright" areas...due to the plywood construction. Any takers on these questions?

[rjmac]

I am already using Smith Coat Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer (CPES) inside and out.

I am not familar with this product, sounds interesting, go a website to check out...?

This reportedly is made with "natural" wood fibers etc....adding a "flexible" finish. My sources (that are building or have built the same boat) say to fiberglass because the sun will "check" the paint eventually...something about the way the wood is milled or something, the uneven moisture throughout the wood will check the paint if glass cloth isn't used. Others swear by the Smith's Coat and as long as I paint the "half-cured" CPES, it will never check. Both sides of the argument is compelling. Also, I really wanted to epoxy the interior of the boat in order to add a durable finish (in case I drop an anchor or something). But some say the wood wont breathe if moisture gets in...so they recommend not epoxying the interior. If the boat is CPES'd, than is moisture intrusion really an issue here?

The real problem is that the wood degrades by being attacked by bacteria, that is what breaksdown the cellulose structure in wood. All wood has a certain amount of mosture content, it needs it to function.

All materials absorb a certain amount of water, in fact polyester, epoxy, vynalester(sp?), plastics in general, etc all have a measurement of how much water is absorbed by their product (exprested in a a % or wt). So prolonged exposure to mosture will determine the lifespan of a epoxy wood boat, structural saturation by mosture which is the second failure mode, but is a much slower failure mode.

Based on this, coat it inside and out with csm..... natural fibers only introduce prosity for bacteria to get to the wood....., which is a very rapid deterioration rate. There is also some structural strength increases by using csm with epoxy besides also checking creep.

By the way, the doug fir plywood ranges from 1/4 to 1/2 inches thick and it is NOT marine grade. I will be painting the hull with some form of interlux paint, and using epoxy, sand, and paint on the deck (for traction). The boat will probably have very few "bright" areas...due to the plywood construction.

I have been down this road....... The first and only boat I built by myself was a 14ft daysailer, my first design. I cheapied out and used exterior grade plywood and I paid the price for it. Every year I would have to fill soft spots and refinish the boat.......

The difference between marine grade and construction/exterior grade plywood is the knots in the marine grade are filled by the manufacture, where with exterior grade it was not. The glue is the same for both but you will have to deal with the voids in the veneer layers, unless your epoxy product can saturate all the way through, even then it is a risk. I ended up junking the boat because I did not feel it was safe to sell, kept the hardware. My dad told me not to do that but he let me make my mistakes. The 28ft'r I am working on will be a different story,,, no cheapying out on this one.

[Corpus Skipper]

There are several builders around who fully encapsulate plywood with epoxy, decks, cabin soles and tops have been built this way for many years with no problems. Just make sure ANY penetrations through the wood are thoroughly bedded in 3M 5200 or something similar. Also, your location plays a role. Wood will last much longer in cold salt water than warm fresh water. Will your boat be dry stored? If so, I'd think with proper care, it should last indefinitely. If water can't get to the wood, rot should not be a problem. Virtually ALL commercial fishing boats around here are epoxy encapsulated plywood, and these guys' lives depend on their boats. :D

[duluthboats]

Lots of stuff here, I’ll start with the Weekender is a large enough boat that I would want to use marine plywood. The hours spent building balanced against the added cost would tell me to use the best I could find. This is not a weekend project.

CPES is thin epoxy; it will do a great job of sealing your plywood and provide a good surface for paint. It will not stop your plywood from checking. A layer of glass set in resin will hide most if not all of the checking, but not stop it. The checking is going to happen with cheap plywood and some expensive stuff as well. If that doesn’t bother you, seal everything with CPES and then paint it and keep it painted. The biggest reason for rot on a wooden boat is poor maintenance, and no amount of magic coatings can make up for that. If you don’t want to see the checking cover the plywood with glass or other fabric set in resin.

Have you looked at MDO, it’s plywood with a resin set paper face. The paper is there to hide the checking and provide a smooth surface to paint.

Gary :D

[gonzo]

Fir will check if it is not covered with resin and cloth. It doesn't matter if it is plywood or solid lumber.

[PAR]

Doug fur is known for checking and must be entombed in epoxy and cloth. The selection of non marine lumber makes this decision more so important. If you don't want the checks, then you must use cloth and epoxy. In areas you expect to bash stuff around, like the bilge or lockers, put some cloth and goo there. Don't go nuts with this, just where you need the abrasion resistance. CPES everything and finish her off.

The Weekender is intended to get folks on the water, cheaply. CPES, epoxy and fancy cloth don't fall into this column. There are lots of these boats around and it has quite a following. Talk with the Stevenson folks on their web site. They'll have taken most every angle to this issue, some going all out with the best materials, others the low buck route, most find a happy place in the middle of their pocket and coat and cloth what they need too, leaving the rest to good upkeep and maintenance.

No worries, keep at it, have fun . . . Good Luck,

[gonzo]

Lumber is not marine or not marine. It is graded according to the way it's sawn, knots, splits, how it was dryed, humidity content, amount of sapwood,etc. Plywood has a marine grade.

[PAR]

Excuse my miss speaking about "lumber" it was assumed we all were talking about fur ply (that's DOUGLAS fir plyWOOD - for those that need the additional, abet redundant clarification) and it is a commonly complained about problem (surface checking) with the material.

Most lumber is graded by the amount of usable yield from each piece.

[rjmac]

gonzo,

Lumber is not marine or not marine. It is graded according to the way it's sawn, knots, splits, how it was dryed, humidity content, amount of sapwood,etc. Plywood has a marine grade.

Yes, at a greater level of detail you can grade the plywood as stated...., it's been a while sence I have looked into the plywood industry grading.... From what I understand, now you can get pressure treated marine plywood, the stuff has a warrenty (cool... :) )

I kinda took a quick look and found this link.... Thanks, this looks like the direction I will be going.....
http://www.apawood.org/level_b.cfm?content=app_spe_boat

===================================================

Guest,

Please excuse me if I seem a little on the brash side, but Par stated makes a good point, it comes down to application, boats in general are very application specific when it comes to building and design.

Ditto on go for it.....

[gonzo]

Pressure treated marine plywood is very rot resistant. The problem is that the toxic chemicals that kill fungus kill people too. That is why "green wood" is banned from residencial construction after 2004. I think that for application where it will be covered in fiberglass it will prevent rot and be safe. For example, cockpit soles, transoms and stringers. The FDA bans it in commercial fishing boats anywhere it is in contact with edibles. This includes your catch. The dust of treated lumber is very toxic too. One of the problems, is that the effects are delayed like asbestos. It makes workers careless.

[rjmac]

Par,

Please excuse the side slide in the tread....., looks like we just missed each others post by a minute or two... :)

- I am wondering with a pressure treated lumber, is there a reduction in adhesion to the surface of the lumber (DOUGLAS fir plyWOOD specifically)?
And would there be enough penatration into the wood, say polyester vs epoxy. This would functionally determine the amount of surface checking that would occur?

- duluthboats,
Do you have a website for the resin set paper face MDO...? I would like to learn more about this material...

- Gonzo, thanks

[duluthboats]

MDO comes in many different grades. Most lumber yards will have some. http://www.directsigns.com/mdo_plywood.htm

Gary :D

[PAR]

I haven't heard of any reports of more or less adhesion to treated lumber or ply. I don't like the stuff personally. It looks to be a lower quality of wood with a good killing agent applied. Finding clear, VG pressure treated stock would be a bear if not only a custom order.

I would not use polyester on any lumber or ply I'd want to keep for very long. There are way to many home built multi hulls dieing a slow death, in the backyards and marinas across this country, left over from the 70's with their polyester skins hanging off their flanks, to even think about making that mistake again. The jury is long in on how well polyester sticks to wood and it don't. I don't care what anyone will have you believe, no nails sticking up, no staples, no weird hardener ratio mixtures will make the stuff stick well enough to wood compared to epoxy. Who knows what the addition of CCA in treated wood would do to the stickiness of poly, but do you want to risk it?

Now I know a lot of folks will tell you "we do it up here all the time . . ." and yes, it is done and does work, but only in cases where they are using the wood as a mold for the 'glass hull they lay around it. The north east and the north west is full of work boats that have polyester skins on them. These are thick, massive lay-ups of material that in effect acts as another hull surrounding the wooden one. They even save old worn out wooden hulls with the stuff. Again by putting on so much polyester and cloth that the rotting mass of wood on the other side of it is protected from the moisture by the new shell of a polyester hull. Sort of a cold molding with chemistry.

The resulting lay-ups for these examples of foolishness are much heavier then should be or need be. In the case of a work boat, a lot could be said for giving the boat another 5-10 years of serviceable use with a skinning of polyester, but a Weekender would not like the addition weight. What would be the point anyway? You might as well build a plastic Weekender as that's what you have once the polyester was thick enough to work as a anti checking coating.

The only reliable way to stop checks in fur ply is to set cloth in epoxy. Epoxy nor polyester alone has little value in this regard. The cloth is what makes it work in both cases.

MDO comes in thicknesses from 3/8" and up. It is coated with a rosin paper on one or both sides, primed or unprimed. It is a Doug fur through and through and I believe it has a 1088 rating. I use the stuff all the time and it is great for bulkheads, furniture, etc.

I've tested gluing face to face and it holds well. I also have an unprimed two sided scrap in a bucket of rain water that has dried out many times in the last year. The paper shows no sign of coming off and has taken on a grayish white look from the light brown it once was. It has taken a slight curved set, while standing in this bucket. The piece is 8" x 24" and is in a 5 gal bucket under a rain gutter down spout. The dogs drink out of this bucket (I have 4 of the beasts) and it is living in a spit and slime covered world. Every so often I have to take it away from one of them as they've run off with it and are teasing one of the other dogs with it. In the summer it's hot as hell here in Florida and we get lots of rain, the bucket is full all the time. In the winter we get near no rain and the bucket gets filled by the hose and filtered well water gets lapped out by the mutts. They prefer the rain water as it has many more critters and crunchies to enjoy then the well water.

The MDO has be in the sun and rain and several dogs mouths and has held up very well aside from the odd tooth mark or so. We'll see what happens by next year.

I've never seen it used as planking, but I'd guess it would work well.

[Armada]

I am just starting to build aplywood sailboat and I was planning to fully encapsulate plywood with epoxy and also using cloth on the outer side of the hull. After reading at this forum, it is the first time that I have heard about CPES. I have checked their web site and actually impressed with what they are explaining.
Q1- Does anybody know how will it react if I first CPES all the plywood and than do the clothing and epoxy of the hull.
Q2- If the above is ok than what type of paint can be applied to this system.
Thank you all in advance

[chandler]

Fir ply is the cheapest marine ply you can buy, for a reason. You get what you pay for. Okoume or other mahogany type marine plys will not check if they are coated in epoxy and some sort of U.V. resistant varnish or urethene.
Fiberglass is not necessary on the the topsides.
Greenwood,i.e PT, is still sold. They just changed the formula, less arsenic. more copper.
The problem with most PT is it's made from 20 year old southern yellow pine, all sap wood. Actually the problem with most wood products.
Marine ply and cdx do not use the same glue. The difference between marine ply and cdx or ac or whatever, is the amount of voids in the plys allowed, and the glue.
I'd spend the extra buck for okoume encapsulate in epoxy.glass the outside.and make sure it has a good U V protective coating, and maintain that.

[yokebutt]

Armada,

Personally, I've never been a fan of penetrating epoxies, a couple of times I have sanded parts coated with those kinds of products several months, and even years after application, and I can smell the solvents from the epoxy quite clearly. At least to my thinking, having those solvents trapped inside, and free to wander about the plywood that was coated cannot possibly be good for the adhesive holding the veneers together.

Thus, what I prefer to do, is to heat the substrate, (space heaters and plastic will do) and then mix a batch of good epoxy, (WEST system, or the like) and then heat it in a microwave for approximately two seconds per ounce, and then apply it quickly.

According to my (admittedly) simplistic thinking, at a certain stage of cure, when a solvent molecule leaves the coating film, it has to leave a microscopic pore behind it, and that pore leaves a locally effectively much thinner epoxy coating than the area surrounding it, and consequently, a degraded ability to withstand moisture.

Yoke.

[PAR]

Okay, lets break open the can of worms. Epoxy is 100% solids when cured, no trails left by solvents, no pores to be left open. Lets get back to chemistry 101.

First I'll answer your questions Armada. The only time epoxy treatments (CPES included, as it is epoxy) is if the pieces are encapsulated. This means true encapsulation, every side, every piece, each hole, notch, saw kerfs, dings, everything, must be coated, WELL or it doesn't work. Generally this means a lot more extra work, effort, materials and money, but it can be worth it, if it's done properly and most importantly of all THE COATING MUST REMAIN INTACT. Any breaches in the coatings will need be addressed right away or you'll null and void the process and possibly cause other issues to bite you in the butt. SO the answer to question 1 is yes, coat with CPES if you want (recommended on new construction), pay close attention to end grain and then put 'glass cloth set in epoxy over this (it will provide abrasion protection, though there are better products to use then regular 'glass)

Question two, any paint will do, though some, as you may guess, are much better then others. At the top of the list are the two part linear polyurethane's, next are single part poly's, then the modified enamels, the regular enamels and then the acrylics (latex) They also have some odd ball paints like one part epoxy (really just a modified enamel) and others, which I suspect are just fancy names for the same old oil based paint they've been selling for years.

Now, onto the hot plate about epoxy, CPES and the uses in boatbuilding.

Resin is the basis for epoxy and typically is diglycidol ether of bisphenyl A. Under the right conditions, bisphenyl A is a reaction of phenol and acetone. The "A" is acetone, "bis" means two and "phenyl" means phenol groups. Bisphenyl A is the product from a chemical combining of two phenols with one acetone. Ya with me so far. Unreacted acetone and phenols are stripped off the bisphenyl A and then reacted with a material called epicholorohydrin (there will be a spelling test in your next class). This results in two glycidol (di) groups sticking to the ends of the bisphenyl A molecule, which is then called diglycidol ether of bisphenyl A and is the basic goo we call epoxy resin. It is these glycidol groups that react with the amine hydrogen atoms in hardeners to generate cured epoxy resin. This basic resin can be modified for different properties, harder, softer, more brittle, less brittle, more flexible, less flexible, higher breaking strength, etc., etc. etc. and it is this that becomes proprietary among the epoxy manufactures.

Had enough yet? Onto the hardeners, which are commonly polyamines (room temperature cured epoxy). Here it comes, wait for it . . . they are organic molecules containing two or more amine groups. Some manufactures use this little fact as a selling point to bolster it's place in the boatbuilding industry, but it's bull **** really. The keyboard you are about to use to cuss me out for all this dribble, likely also has organic compounds in it's manufacture, so what. Amine groups are a lot like ammonia in structure except they are attached to organic molecules and this similarity causes epoxy hardeners to have a notable ammonia like odor. Once in the open air this effect disappears quickly because of the high vapor pressures of the polyamines, though in closed in spaces it can linger.

Reactive amine groups are nitrogen atoms with one or two hydrogen atoms attached. The hydrogen atoms react with the oxygen atoms from the glycidol groups on the epoxy to form the cured resin. This end result is a highly crosslinked thermoset plastic, which heat will soften, but not melt - a cured epoxy. The three dimensional structure provides the cured resin excellent physical properties.

The ratio of glycidol oxygens to the amine hydrogens, considering the molecular weights and densities involved, determines the resin to hardener ratio. Changing the recommended ratio will leave either unreacted hydrogen or oxygen atoms (depending on which is in excess). The resulting resin will have lower strength as it's not full crosslinked.

Epoxy hardeners are not catalysts. Catalysts promote reactions, but do not chemically become part of the finished product. Epoxy hardeners mate to the epoxy resin, contributing greatly to the properties of the cured matrix.

That was the easy part. Now to dispel the myths. There isn't any solvent that "flashes off" out of the epoxy, unless you want it to (like thinning epoxy for penetration into raw wood) Nothing comes out that is a result of the chemical reaction and the curing process. Gases can be driven out of raw lumber or plywood if the temperature is rising during the cure, but this is not the fault of the epoxy, but the user not controlling conditions (which is the key to successful epoxy work) When epoxy is cured, there are no solvents in any pores, though there may be resin or hardener in areas, if the mix wasn't complete, again not the fault of the epoxy, but controlling the conditions. CPES is epoxy. Epoxy is CPES, they are one and the same. CPES isn't a wonder goo, just epoxy formulated to be very flexible, when compared to traditional epoxies. CPES and other epoxies don't breath. Some think CPES will breath, just like wood does, but it's a plastic and doesn't do that at all. It does remain pliable enough to move with the wood when it does breath.

On new construction and in repair or restoration work, where the piece can come off the boat, be completely coated then re-installed, CPES and epoxy can be used to an advantage. It should be noted that epoxy and CPES shouldn't be used when structures rely on joints swelling tight from moisture content changes, such as traditional lapstrake or carvel construction does. As a rule, traditional construction methods doesn't mix well with epoxy and CPES, though there are uses in these boats.

Newer construction methods, like tape and seam (stitch and glue) require epoxy. These construction techniques rely heavily on the goo's stuck -um ability and is used instead of fasteners in most cases. The great strength a filleted and taped seam can provide to a structure will allow the designer to eliminate many if not all of the traditional framing, usually found in a boat.

CPES and epoxy can greatly increase the life of a wooden boat, but there are limitations and rules that need be adhered to if success is desired. Epoxy and CPES can improve the durability of lesser quality materials, if applied correctly. The finest of materials can rot out much quicker if CPES and epoxy are applied incorrectly.

This is the end of the novel on epoxy and CPES, let the battle begin. Bring a sharp sword . . .

[Armada]

Dear Par,

I'll bring a spoon instead of the sword because I want to eat up this project.
The lesson was good and as simple as innovating E=MC2

I can see that you are deeply involved in this industry. To give you more backround on the project. I'll be building a new coastal cruiser with Ocoume marine plywood. I was planning to build it with plywood and than aplying a complete layer of thin fabric with epoxy. When I saw the post about CPES, I thought that to be on the more safe side I should first apply CPES than sand it and than do the final epoxy fabric layer. First of all do you think that this is a good idea ? or should I just go with my original idea.

The other point that you have shocked me with the words "Here it comes, wait for it . . . they are organic molecules containing two or more amine groups. Some manufactures use this little fact as a selling point to bolster it's place in the boatbuilding industry, but it's bull **** really." So are you suggesting that I can buy the cheapest possible epoxy brand for fixing marble craks and actually use it for boat building ???

Lastly, is there a way of thinning the viscosity of epoxy.

Thanks for your time
Armada

[PAR]

On projects that use modern techniques, such as stitch and glue, CPESing the materials first is a wise idea. Plank on frame or other projects that use more traditional methods, should be looked at closely to insure the structure isn't compromised, by locking down the pieces with goo and/or preventing joints or seams that require swelling, from doing so. I don't know what style of construction you are employing, so it would be a guess on my part, though most plywood construction can benefit from CPES and epoxy use.

A few manufactures try to sell their product by saying it's based on wood fiber or other organic compounds, but so are milk jugs. They tread very closely to the line of "it comes from wood, so must be the best for wood . . ." which is pure crap, once you understand the processes and chemistry involved. In short, be mindful of the advertising hype. Yes, there's some atoms and a few molecules from organic materials, but they no longer resemble the original material.

Epoxy can be formulated for a variety of needs, like filling marble cracks and bonding bolts into concrete pads, but the formulation may not be well suited for marine use, so stick with the known products. So much for saving money. Epoxy use in boat building can dramatically increase the labor and material costs on a project. It must be decided early in the project, or costs can get out of hand quickly.

Yes, you can thin epoxy. Most manufactures don't recommend their product be thinned. They also (and rightly) will tell you the cured thinned product will be weaker and void any properties shown in their testing. They don't want to be responsible (I can't blame them there) for foolish thinning practices. Thinning can be done, but I'd recommend 10% and no more then 15%, by volume. More then this and you'll loose to much crosslink and the matrix will be quite weak. I strongly advise against thinning epoxy, without a good bit of experience with the brand and epoxy use in general. You can easily screw up a batch of epoxy and will not know until you're trying to claw off a lee shore in a storm and the mast comes apart at the seams or the transom falls of the back of the boat.

The best way of decreasing the viscosity of epoxy is to warm the epoxy and/or the substrate it will be applied. This will also decrease the pot life of the mixed goo, but can dramatically increase penetration ability. Tests show additional penetration not as effective as it would seem. An unbreached coating (done at room temperature) will provide similar protection to the wood fibers then a thinned coating that has better penetration into the fibers. Basically this means, all is good, as long as the coating doesn't get broken. This is the key to epoxy permitting longer life in wooden structures and the whole point of it's use as a coating.

[chandler]

Most epoxy manufacturers offer a high and low viscosity resin as well as slow medium,and fast hardeners. I wouldn't mess with the mix.

[Armada]

Thanks for the replies.
My building technique will be lining up BS 1088 ocoume bulkheads which also at the same time forms the internal partitions, connecting them with wooden stringers and than covering the hull deck cabin etc. all of them with the same quality ply again. (No lapstrake, or swelling tech. of traditional system)
I have checked that most of the epoxy manufacturers are purchasing their raw materials from the same 2-3 factories in the world. Than they use different brand names to capture different market segments according to their price and advert policy. While eventually their basic cost is not much different from each other, the retail profit they aim is differs from 100% to 1000%.
I have found a reputable manufacturer in Europe with reasonable prices and with Lloyds approval for marine usage. The only point is that their product viscosity is 1600. Which seems very thick for me. They have thinner products but that line requires a post curing of 100 degrees C . That I cannot do as an amateur . What is your comments for the viscosity of 1600 ?
Other question is, is it safe to use stailess screws to fix the hull panels to the stringers (and burry them 2 mm into the ply from the outer skin) and than epoxy them on top. Will this be OK, so that they will not rot in the future or would you guys suggest a different system ?

[cyclops]

www.oneoceankayaks.com--- Try it. It gives a rating of epoxies and their strong points.

[chandler]

Not sure what 1600 viscosity means. Any epoxy I've ever used was thin enough that for most applications it needed to be thickened. Stainless should be fine if it is encapsulated. What other types of fastenings will you be using. Just make sure they are not too far apart on the galvanic series.

[PAR]

Post cured formulations are going to be very difficult for the armature to work with. You'll be best advised to avoid them, regardless of the cost differences, it's a different formulation and not well suited to shade tree construction efforts.

It's not so much the raw materials, but the formulation that carries the brand or type of epoxy into the market. You need to focus on the goals. Your epoxy will needs should be aimed at the environment you'll be apply and using after cure. Marine use is a given so you'll want a formulation that is tolerant of higher temperatures (slow cure) in summer months, maybe an amine blush free formulation. Since I still have little idea of what your project is, I can't advise in more then general terms. This is the case with your fasteners. Sometimes you can "get away" with stainless, but sometimes you can't. Personally I don't like stainless, it hardens and breaks without little warning and it truly sucks in certain types of wood or salt water. With all this going against it, I'd rather opt for materials that have better properties like silicon bronze. Sure they cost more, but you get a more reliable product, which is generally typical.

[Armada]

Thanks for all the replies.
1- Viscosity
1600 mPas is the measurement unit of the viscosity (ie. 300 mPas thin, 1600 mPas thick)
2- Definately a very good connection to view the weathering effects
www.oneoceankayaks.com
3- Silicone Bronze
Have not been able to pin point any manufacturer under the listing of silicone bronz manufacturer in Turkey. Maybe another term is used. Could it be just bronze or brass etc. ?
4- What is blush free ?? They are all advertising about that their products are blush free !!!

[cyclops]

Silicon Bronze and Naval Brass are sometimes used for the same metal in the trades. Naval Brass is a common British term and would be more common over there. Let us know if that helps you.

[PAR]

Instead of looking up manufactures of the material look up what you need, which are fasteners, you'll find many thousands of hits.

You need to get an education and some books may be in order. There are many very fine books available on the different elements of yacht construction, the materials used and the techniques employed. Most of the questions you've asked could have been absorbed in a evening's reading. Click on the "Book Store" tab at the top of the page and look at the titles and descriptions. I'm sure there will be many that strike your fancy and can serve as a handy reference as you're actually performing the tasks you need help with. The on line used book sellers have much reduced pricing and out of print stock too.

[Armada]

Thanks. That description worked out fine. Nobody in here uses the term of silicone bronz.

[Armada]

Thank you for all the help. I am reading all the books that I can get hold off. But learning from other people, through their past experience it is speeding up my learning curve. And honestly in any book I feel like they are at least biased to one brand or technique. In the forum it helps to get different views and isn't the forum for that purpose anyways.
In any case, I thank to everybody for their ideas and help. When I have more questions I will call on the forums help again. And the info I receive from you is not just for me. I also translate and pass it to all my amateur boat building friends who needs the translation.

[chandler]

Amine blush is a film that develops on some epoxy mixes which makes bonding to the epoxy with more epoxy less effective. It also does not hold paint. It is also a bitch to sand. Go for the low or no blush!

[yokebutt]

Peelply!

Yoke.