Veteran's Day 2007

[Ike]

As a fellow veteran, on this Veteran's Day I salute all of the men and women who have served in our Armed Forces; Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force and Coast Guard. I give a special salute to all those who have served in combat and put themselves in harm's way so the rest of us may continue to enjoy the freedoms we cherish so much.

It is is my sincere hope that once Veteran's Day is over and all the hoopla, as well meaning as it is, dies down, that we will not then forget the wounded and disabled veterans who need ongoing treatment, the thousands of veterans who are homeless, and without jobs. It amazes me that as a nation we can send our troops off to war with grand promises for them after the war, and then forget all about it. Few of our elected officials are veterans. But they get better medical treatment than our veterans do. None of them are without jobs and homeless.

They need to act now to change this and to ensure that all our veterans, especially those who have fought for this country get the treatment they need. They need to make sure these people come back to meaningful jobs, and that they have places to live. Only by treating our veterans with the respect they deserve, will they have respect for themselves. For those that need occupational training, it should be readily available. For those who wish to go to college, their tuiton should be funded. We need to do this now. Already there are at least 25,000 who have been wounded in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan, and there will be many many more. We need to act now.

So salute a veteran today. But tomorrow, see what else you can do for our veterans.

Peter Eikenberry LT USCG (ret)

[KnotsInAHurry]

I just wish Westlawn was part of the VEAP (Veterans Education Assistance Program)...hint hint Mr. Gerr...

[safewalrus]

Ike I'm from a different tribe in the same alliance (normally) but from one vet to another I agree with you all the way on this one! Pity our respective governments can't get their acts together and look after the guys who do their dirty work - ah well I suppose IF any of them had served they may know better (every now and then one pops up like a breath of fresh air - personally I don believe you should be allowed to vote let alone stand for office until you have proved your worth in the service of your country - but I bet there's lot who never have will call that one down - pity, it might stop a few needless wars!)

[Ike]

Thanks Walrus;

R. A. Heinlein said in one of his books, "never underestimate the power of human stupidity". I suppose in this case this quote is very apt. It's a hell of a lot easier to start a war than it is to end it. It seems to me that the true measure of the greatness of a nation is how it treats it's veterans. So far I'm not impressed.

I have been listening to the history of the Roman Empire. One of the more significant factors in the collapse of th Roman Republic and the start of Imperial Rome under Julius Ceasar was the discontent of the army veterans. They had been promised a plot of land as payment for their service. Well, they didn't get them. So when Ceasar who was very popular with the soldiers, took over, the army supported him.

I don't think that would happen in the USA but having the military unhappy with you is not a position any President wants to be in.

[longliner45]

God bless all fighting for what they believe is right,longliner

[charmc]

Peter and Mike,

Thanks for your thoughts, from another veteran. The good news about this particular conflict is that the number of deaths is much lower compared to others, in some part because we have faster transport to medical facilities, and because we have much better medical knowledge, techniques, and equipment. What this means is that there are many more victims of severe wounds who now survive ... and we as a nation need to insist that they receive ongoing care, therapy, and rehabilitation. What angered me most, and began the process of my ending my support for our present leadership, was the fact that they began to reduce additional funding for long term medical care for both active duty personnel and veterans, claiming that cost cutting had to begin somewhere, at the same time they were asking for billions for the war effort in Iraq.

I've been reading Kipling since I was in grammar school, and one of my favorites is his poem, "Tommy", in which he points out the hypocracy with which societies too often treat their military and veterans. It concludes,

"For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!"

Let us hope we in the US elect a leader, not just a clever politician, this next time. And Mike, I'm glad we've managed to keep that alliance thing going all these years. Let's hope it doesn't have to become active again for a good while.

[marshmat]

As someone too young to have been around for the horrific wars some of you have witnessed, I have to agree with Ike's message here. It is all too easy to take your poor young men and put them into battle, whether for a just cause or not. It's a lot harder to support them and their families when they get off the troop ship afterwards. If you are going to go to war, you owe it to the people involved to ensure their efforts are not for nothing when they return.

Walrus has a good point in post #3 above. Those who make the decision to start a war rarely seem to have much first-hand experience with one. I doubt someone with real seat time in an Iltis or APC out in the field, or someone who had to pick through the pieces of a demolished foreign neighbourhood after a battle, would be so quick to start a fight.

We also need to learn to think about the others- the civilians who invariably bear the brunt of the casualties in modern warfare. Few thoughts are given to the five hundred thousand children who died in Iraq through the '90s because American cruise missiles had taken out their towns' water and sewage plants. And few thoughts are spared for either the American troops or the civilians in the battle zones who were poisoned by residue from uranium-tipped munitions in that era. Wars are between the governments, not the people. Sadly, the people are always the losers, regardless of which government takes the spoils.

Supporting the troops does not mean keeping a limitless supply of money and munitions flowing to the war zone. It means giving them the tools to build peace and trust with the other party as quickly as possible, and giving them the support they need to rebuild their own lives when the war is over.

[charmc]

Thanks, John, and the same to you.

[charmc]

You've got it right, Matt.

Evidence once again that warriors, those who have seen the horrors of war and had friends die are reluctant to go to war again without a just cause and a comprehensive plan. In the run up to the Iraq war, the only voice in the Cabinet arguing against invading Iraq was Colin Powell. He was also the only combat veteran in the Cabinet.

[artemis]

And since the topic of former soldiers being the most peace seeking of citizens (and that's a truth if there ever was one), let us remember that this day was originally called Armistice Day. The day that the "War to End All Wars" came to a close at the 11th hour on the 11th day of the 11th month in 1917. Unfortunately the name of the war never stuck. ;-(

[Bergalia]

I empathise with your sentiments Ike. But surely the whole point of entering politics is to avoid military service....:mad:

[westlawn5554X]

Viva Veteran day... olden days it is the Serf day...:) as kings roam the land...

[Ike]

Thanks to all of you.

Whenever I get to thinking about this I am always reminded of the original Irish lyrics to what we call "When Johnny Comes Marching Home Again" but they knew as "Johnny I hardly Knew Ya"

While goin' the road to sweet Athy, hurroo, hurroo
While goin' the road to sweet Athy, hurroo, hurroo
While goin' the road to sweet Athy
A stick in me hand and a drop in me eye
A doleful damsel I heard cry,
Johnny I hardly knew ye.


With your guns and drums and drums and guns, hurroo, hurroo
With your guns and drums and drums and guns, hurroo, hurroo
With your guns and drums and drums and guns
The enemy nearly slew ye
Oh my darling dear, Ye look so queer
Johnny I hardly knew ye.

Where are your eyes that were so mild, hurroo, hurroo
Where are your eyes that were so mild, hurroo, hurroo
Where are your eyes that were so mild
When my heart you so beguiled?
Why did ye run from me and the child?
Oh Johnny, I hardly knew ye.

Where are your legs that used to run, hurroo, hurroo
Where are your legs that used to run, hurroo, hurroo
Where are your legs that used to run
When you went for to carry a gun
Indeed your dancing days are done
Oh Johnny, I hardly knew ye.

I'm happy for to see ye home, hurroo, hurroo
I'm happy for to see ye home, hurroo, hurroo
I'm happy for to see ye home
All from the island of Ceylon
So low in flesh, so high in bone
Oh Johnny I hardly knew ye.

Ye haven't an arm, ye haven't a leg, hurroo, hurroo
Ye haven't an arm, ye haven't a leg, hurroo, hurroo
Ye haven't an arm, ye haven't a leg,
Ye're an armless, boneless, chickenless egg,
Ye'll have to be put with a bowl out to beg,
Oh Johnny I hardly knew ye.

They're rolling out the guns again, hurroo, hurroo
They're rolling out the guns again, hurroo, hurroo
They're rolling out the guns again,
But they never will take our sons again,
No they never will take our sons again,
Johnny I'm swearing to ye.


My Apologies if this spoils your day. I am currently living at an RV Park on a military base near a Veterans Hospital. Many of the people staying here are here because they are disabled one way or another, and going to the hospital for treatment. Talking to these guys and gals really wakes one up. The odd part is all of them are proud of their service and their country and very few are bitter. Most would go do it again. Just as I would, although I was one of the lucky ones who never actually went to war.

I think the saddest case is a young friend of my daughter and her husband. He is a US army reservist who spent time in Iraq and Guantanamo (I've been there, what a hole) and now has some sort of bone disease and is getting marrow transplants. They don't hold out a lot of hope for him. He's only 28. He's a sargeant and a damn good soldier. But what a waste of a fine human being. I pray every day that this treatment works. And for all the criticism of the VA, I must say this is a very good hospital and the treatment they are giving is top notch. I haven't heard a single complaint from anyone.

[safewalrus]

Those that answered the call to arms and went do not complain if hurt, it's not their style!
They are rightly proud of what they did, but think it was little compared to those who did not return, as i said its not their style!
They tolerate those who do not bother, who were so wrapped up in themselves not to care, and whinge incessantly because it may affect them, it's not their style!
They get on with their lot, because they have too and know they DID THEIR DUTY, that IS their style!
It is up to the rest of us to look after them, most won't, those who are left who did answer the call but were not needed, will, that's our style!

On behalf of those who either can't or won't - thank you for caring (no matter the nation, religion,colour or creed) Thank you all.

[charmc]

Thanks, Peter, for the reminder of the original lyrics.

I am always humbled by the courage and pride of wounded heroes. Would that we are always worthy of their sacrifice ... and would that we build a world where there is less and less need for such sacrifice.

Mike,

We have fun insulting each other most days, but today I can only say thanks. Your last post is simple yet more eloquent than anything heard recently in Congress or Parliament.

[safewalrus]

Why thankee Charlie sir. Nuff said!!

[nordvindcrew]

To add to the list of veterens, the Merchant Marine. Only recently have they been honored with the status of veteren. If my memory is correct, there were more merchant marine deaths by percentage than any other branch of the service. My uncle, Ernest Melby, the son of a Norweigan immegrant, graduated from Massachusetts Maritime academy and went straight to the North Atlantic run; 5 of his classmates were lost and he witnessed two of their ships go down. Convoys didn't stop to look for survivors due to the dangers of submarine attack. When the war ended, he left the sea never to return, a casualty of his own way. They were the pipeline of freedom during Englands' darkest days, God Bless them!

[nordvindcrew]

another thread has progressed on to the subject of theivery. Here in this part of the US of A, the knuckle draggers have resorted to stealing the bronze memorial plaques off the graves of vets. Second the idea of id'ing theives by their dental records. Brother (submarine service), uncle (merchant Marine WW11) and grandfather (WW1) all are honored with plaques, God help anyone I catch trying to pilfer them.

[safewalrus]

Well said Nord' totally agree with you mate on both your threads (and if I find anybody pilfering that kind of stuff, no matter which side or nation, there won't be much left roe others to deal with!)

Incidentally the British Royal Mercantile Marine lost more than all the other services put together in WW II (nearly beaten by their American cousins). the amazing thing was they stopped being paid the minute their ship was sunk! You survive thirty days in a lifeboat, get home eventually with most of your mates dead and find your family in the streets for not paying for their food and housing, and still they went back to sea and an uncertain future! WHY? because they Knew no other way and their country called!! No bits of tin or trinkets for them (medals)

[longliner45]

amen to that wally,,,and please get rid of that stupidwalrus avatar ,,I liked the mug shot better,longliner

[masalai]

I've never worn my medals & doubt I will, they are to me a posthumous award of appreciation, kept respectfully in their boxes awaiting my final time. I remain a member of the RSL and remember those who made the ultimate sacrifice for us all when I open the draw of my desk and see the boxes and on both Anzac day and Remembrance day services observed by most Australians. 25 April and 11 November respectively.

[charmc]

another thread has progressed on to the subject of theivery. Here in this part of the US of A, the knuckle draggers have resorted to stealing the bronze memorial plaques off the graves of vets. Second the idea of id'ing theives by their dental records. Brother (submarine service), uncle (merchant Marine WW11) and grandfather (WW1) all are honored with plaques, God help anyone I catch trying to pilfer them.

Well said, Jeff. Stealing a symbol of honor is among the worst.

[safewalrus]

Mr Lee - each to his own, I wear mine on Remeberance Sunday to remind them as follows what some did and died for! (would be nice if I could get the final one - entitled to the PJM but it appears nobody want to give it to me as I don't belong to any Self Imposed Heros Clubs (the NMBVA) can't handle that shower - I did what I had to, lost a couple of mates but that's the way it goes!

[masalai]

As I said before the 10pound offer exists (you pay your own fare now) and the RSL is not of that crowd where I have been (apart from the "pokies" not Whores but poker machines - one armed bandits without arms now. over the road but under the same name in Maroochydore. I go to the museum to give the oldies there the printouts of some dirty jokes - the ones I also posted here.

That section also helped me get my last medal. Now I have a set of 2, not the doxen or so for Vietnam vets. I could not have survived that fcuk up.