interested in fiber ski boat.

[watersportFreak]

hello i'm newbie for boat, i very like watersport and i hope to build my own boat in one day.
now i'm just start to study in boat design specifically in ski boat.
yes my dream boat is malibu boat but i don't have much money to buy it and then it is my inspiration and idea to build the boat by myself.

now i try to find some boat plan i can adapted it to wakeboard boat .
and i want to build it by fiber( i don't know how much hard to make between wood and fiber but anyway i'm alot like fiber design in specially ). if you know the plan are appropriate for me please share it, and if you can help to advise me something about wakeboard boat and fiber boat building please do it.

thanks.

[watersportFreak]

requirement Seating maximum 11 Persons on boat and front seating.

[Gilbert]

If you want to build only one boat, wood is probably the most economical. There are some ways of building fiberglass boats without making a plug and a mold but I don't think they are easier than building in wood. My experience with waterskiing and such years ago was every bit as much fun with very plain boats as it would have been with a flashy, fancy, expensive one.

[watersportFreak]

thank for reply Gilbert.
i find some boat plan from http://www.glen-l.com , and i found two of them it is
Bolero // http://www.glen-l.com/designs/inboard/bolero.html
and
Roustabout
http://www.glen-l.com/designs/inboard/roustabout.html#avail

i think it need abit apply i ROUSTABOUT is look like kind of made good wave but ROUSTABOUT is better to pickup many passenger but it is not inboard.
i need to select one of them and develop it appropriate for ski player.

which one do you think it is good for ski and easy to develop.

[whipper]

I like the bolaro because you can get the HP you need for water sports. the other one is only rated to 120 hp you will need 300 minumum. With the Bolaro you can find a 383 small block stroked pushing 400hp threw a V drive and you will have a great wake board boat. If the Bolaro doesnt have plans for a bow rider its not hard to figure out how to incorperate that your self.

[watersportFreak]

whare i can get Bolero Plans & Patterns ?

[Gilbert]

Looking over the GlenL designs, I would suggest either the SkiBass or the Renegade. I would lengthen them the 10 percent they suggest as a limit. You don't need 300 horsepower for watersports unless you have a boat that needs 250 hp all by itself.
You probably know more about water boarding wakes than I do, but for skiing you want a pretty flat wake, which I would not expect Bolero would give you.
No way would you need more than 100 hp if your boat isn't a power hog. For competition skiing most of the boats have quite a lot of power but I doubt they need it all.

[watersportFreak]

ok Gilbert ,
normally wake boarder are used 28-35 Km/H. i think i don't need the huge muscle like Bolero. i just want easy to control boat and it can pick up passenger around 7-10 person and it can make such a big wake.

this is the requirement wakeboard boat must do.Boat plans in GlenL web are quite expensive for me, can you introduce some boat plan? pile wood or fiber it ok.

[marshmat]

All the Glen-L designs mentioned so far except the Ski-Bass share one feature in common that is not ideal for a towboat: they all have a fairly sharp, deep-V hullform. This is great for rough-water running. But it also means the wake will be less than ideal for wakeboarding, and really quite bad for skiing. And I have never seen a 24', 4000 lb boat (like the Bolero) that is designed with skiing/boarding as a priority (ski boats are usually 17' to 22'). The Malibu, Mastercraft and Tige towboats typically have a deadrise of around ten degrees, sometimes less, compared to the 20 degrees plus that these runabouts have. Look for something with a hull shape similar to the boats you know you like.

Most of the good wakeboard boat designs actually begin life as inboard competition waterski boats. The aft chines are redesigned to let it sit a little lower in the water on plane, and a hydrofoil or ballast tank is added to force the stern down. The hull shape itself usually shares the same basic design as the ski version, a monohedral or slightly warped shallow-V at about ten degrees deadrise.

There is absolutely no requirement for huge engines in a towboat. I'm about average size for a Canadian male, and I can ski quite comfortably behind my 30 hp, Bolger-designed runabout when it has two crew aboard. A family member's 190 hp Peterborough has more than enough power for everything and everyone we have ever tried to pull with it. Big engines are only needed if the boat itself is inefficient; in a real towboat, big engines are really just a marketing thing (people want to know the boat can be bloody fast, even if they'll never actually go that fast).

Glen-L plans for a boat this size run around $100-$130 or so. This is a real bargain; you will not find good, proven plans for much less, and the probability of finding good, proven free plans is almost zero. Many designers and plan printers, Glen-L included, let you order directly from their website.

[jksoft]

I'm just curious what type of wake the deep-V hull form is likely to create that is not ideal for watersports?

Jeremy

All the Glen-L designs mentioned so far except the Ski-Bass share one feature in common that is not ideal for a towboat: they all have a fairly sharp, deep-V hullform. This is great for rough-water running. But it also means the wake will be less than ideal for wakeboarding, and really quite bad for skiing. And I have never seen a 24', 4000 lb boat (like the Bolero) that is designed with skiing/boarding as a priority (ski boats are usually 17' to 22'). The Malibu, Mastercraft and Tige towboats typically have a deadrise of around ten degrees, sometimes less, compared to the 20 degrees plus that these runabouts have. Look for something with a hull shape similar to the boats you know you like.

[watersportFreak]

Hull Shape.
V+Flat

[Gilbert]

Glen-L classifies the Renegade as a ski boat, and I doubt if they would if it did not have a rather decent wake for it. I think they said it has what is called a gull wing bottom which means a wide reverse V chine. I certainly have no personal experience with that particular design.
Conventional deep vees usually have a huge wake.

[marshmat]

The trouble with a deep-V's wake, from a skier/boarder's perspective, is not just the size but the shape- it ramps up sharply and usually has a turbulent crest that's awkward to cross. Flatter V's give a smoother ramp with less abrupt transitions. Or so the wakeboard-addict friends tell me, and I tend to agree.
Gullwing hulls can work for skiing, but some make a very confused, multi-part wake that's a bit disorienting for the skier.

[watersportFreak]

what is hull type Moomba ?
http://www.moomba.com/


i like this Mastercraft. is it a bit Gullwing hulls ?
http://www.waterskis.com/2008-MasterCraft-X-1-White-wakeboard-boat-p/2008%20mastercraft%20x-1%20red.htm

[Gilbert]

I was wrong about the Glen-L Renegade being a gull wing bottom. It is a regular 12 degree v bottom, which is not a very deep v at all, but it is also not flat. The Moomba looks to be a very typical ski boat configuration but no doubt with their own little features that they think makes them better than all the others.
I was surprised that you thought the Glen_L plans prices were too high. How much do you think you will spend on the boat itself? Certainly, your material costs must be almost nothing if you thought their prices were out of the question. Also, the motor????

[marshmat]

Take a close look at the hull of that Mastercraft X-1, watersportfreak. The hull has a shallow-V entry and warps to a nearly flat V at the transom. It is a tournament waterski boat hull, with the exception of the aft chines which are cut away to encourage a slightly higher running trim angle as is required for the "perfect" wake shape that boarders are after (ski boats run almost dead-level on plane).
How much of the X-1's appeal is due to the boat itself, and how much to the occupant of its lounging pads? ;)
The Mooma boats, too, are a derivative of tournament ski boats. Virtually all such boats are characterized by a shallow-V entry, large planing surface, minimal transom deadrise, conventional shaft drive (or in the case of some of the board boats, shaft drive through a V-gearbox), and a smooth, low-drag underwater profile designed for high planing lift, extremely good directional stability (hence the fins on the keel), and a smooth, gently transitioning wake shape.
You can, of course, ski behind darn near anything that goes more than fifteen knots. Dedicated ski/wakeboard boats have evolved to the point where they all look and behave more or less the same, because this is the general form that produces the stability, wake and acceleration/speed that pro boarders and skiers tend to like.

[Willallison]

The type of boat and how much power you need is very much dependant on the type of skiing you intend to do.
I learned to ski behind a 10' inflatable dinghy with a 10hp outboard (fabulous - no wake!). I learned to barefoot behind a 15' runabout with a 90hp outboard, which was marginally too slow for the task, and whilst it was ok to slalom behind, I was easily able to pull 10mph off its speed as I cut across the wake. If I'd ever tried hard enough, I suspect I could have rolled it over...

I've owned both inboard (19' with a 260hp mercruiser) and outboard (19' with a 200hp efi outboard) tournament level ski boats and I've driven any number in tournaments over the years as well as competed in slalom, trick and jump skiing. Even with this level of power, I can pull several mph off the boat speed - particularly when jumping.

The point of all this is really that you need to identify what you want to do with the boat before settling of a design, but assuming that you are likley to want to do a bit of slalom and some wakeboarding, I'd be looking for a boat of about 19' long, with a reasonably flat bottom. If you intend to use it in salt water, I'd personally steer away from inboards - outboards are far easier to look after in my experience, not to mention easier to launch and recover, beachable etc etc.
As far as power goes, it's true that to simply pull someone along you don't need a lot of power, but if you intend to do any serious skiing then I would suggest 150hp as an absolute minimum (I've competed in a tournament behind a 150hp o/b tournament boat and the driver was often unable to keep within the required time tolerances because skiers were pulling his speed back too much)

[watersportFreak]

thank for alot advise Gilbert & Willallison ,

i'm not understand clearly in your last two reply Willallison( i'm not native english :( ) could you explane this point again.
Virtually all such boats are characterized by a shallow-V entry, large planing surface, minimal transom deadrise, conventional shaft drive (or in the case of some of the board boats, shaft drive through a V-gearbox), and a smooth, low-drag underwater profile designed for high planing lift, extremely good directional stability (hence the fins on the keel), and a smooth, gently transitioning wake shape.

I think first model i'll do is case study is develop it from Mastercraft X-1 hull is shallow-V entry to a flat V.
But i don't know how to do it real.Now i'm reading alot of cold-molded and foam core and fiber lay , but i don't know not much how to build this structure.

I have to plan it in 3D or i can plan it by scale model ?
it is hard to expand scale? if i'll mold scale model by clay or which way is easier to reproduce; duplicate it.?
and when i finished clay model how to make it to mold structure to lay foam core and fiber?

or it is possible if i'll find some boat plan from internet and adapt it first ?

[watersportFreak]

i have one question,
your first own boat, is it work good?

[Willallison]

Sorry watersportFreak - I'm not exactly sure what you are asking here....

In terms of my own boats, yes I've been very happy with them. All have performewd their designed tasks very well. Inboards tend to be more 'task specific' than outboards - by that I mean that they aren't as practical for doing things other than skiing.

Personally, I wouldn't attempt to build a ski boat from scratch - there are so many out there (ok, perhaps not in Thailand...) that you can almost certainly find one that fits your needs, for less than it would cost you to build it.
That said, I agree with marshmat's suggestion that you want a wide, flat boat. There are almost certainly designs available out there. It sounds like you don't really have the experience to develop the design yourself (no offense intended!), so if your are determined to build it yourself, I'd keep looking....

[whipper]

As was mentioned you can ski behind anything but you talked about bring 7-10 friends along and if thats the case you need lots of HP. Why settle for a little when you can have a lot for almost the same amount of money. I have a 20ft Allison GSE with a 225hp Mercury Racing outboard and can do just shy of 100mph with a 30 pitch prop and a24 pitch prop I can pull a 200lb slolom skiier out of the hole not bad but wish I had a 300 on the transon at times. If your building a boat you should build it so you never say i wish i had more power. Build it the way you need it to performe with the maxamum payload. thats why ski boats have the 300hp engines in them so even with 10 people on board they will pull a slolom skier out of the hole in a deep water start. Inboard direct drive is best. They are very expensive to buy new. You would be best to find an old flat bottom vee drive boat an use the power train from that style of hull. You can find them cheap like 3500 to $6000 the vee drive componits alone new will cost double that!!! Castle is a good make and very strong and common. You could use the fuel tank and engine from the doner guages also and what ever you can salvage!!:) When your done robbing the hull you could sell the bare hull for 1000 plus to recover some it also. I wouldnt go less than a 10deg transom but try to have a sharp entry like at least 18 because that way you could still slice the other wakes you come across with out much pounding. most are 24 I believe at the bow at least some of the mastercrafts are.

[watersportFreak]

Yes !
I strong believe to build it by my own.:mad: + :idea:

last day i found tree of interesting boat.

Vixen 17
http://www.hartley-boats.com/vixen17.html
http://www.hartley-boats.com/images/vixen17e.jpg
Flareline 18
http://www.hartley-boats.com/flare18.html
http://www.hartley-boats.com/images/flare18f.jpg
Flareline 20
http://www.hartley-boats.com/images/flare20g.jpg
http://www.hartley-boats.com/flare20.html
the hull like abit wakeboard boat style maybe it can make kinda nearly wake and the plan is modify to inboard and no cabin.
http://www.boatingbasicsonline.com/course/boating/safety_images/inboard.gif



Flareline 20 is bigger and better and yes it harder to build
do you think this is good for beginner boat building ?