Lock Crowther

[zigzag]

Does anyone have old or unused plans for a bucaneer or twiggie? Crowther in Aust and an ex employee of Lock Crowther, seem content to let these designs disappear into history. Simple and fast, the few boats around are still selling quickly when they are put on the market in Australia.

[catsketcher]

I used to own a Twiggy and sold the plans with the boat. The current owner still has the plans. What would you like to do with the plans? Some sort of online warehouse so new designers can see the good ideas of the past?

Thinking of that, is there a site that has designs of obsolete and no longer sold plans - Piver, Nicol, Crowther, etc. It could be interesting.

Any ideas?

cheers

Phil Thompson

[fhrussell]

The Mariner's Museum in Newport News, VA has offered to become the repository for all things modern multihull. Jim Brown or searunner Trimaran fame has been working with a curator there to build a plan collection. Presently, plans for Piver and maybe Newick boats are available. They also have Peter Spronk's collection and have a promisary from Jim Brown and I may be sending my Rudy Choy (C/S/K) collection of plans eventually. ,...just waiting for all the proper permissions. Check it out on line or give 'em a call!

http://www.mariner.org/library/plans_dwgs/index.php

[zigzag]

From what I can see by looking at the smaller Crowther trimarans is they have some room inside the cabin, have simple construction, Alloy crosbeams so that you dont have to go to the trouble of making carbon composites and yet there is still some strength. The cross 18 is an example of simplicity but I dont like the crossbeam design. Does Lock have any decendants? as I could negotiate a copy with your friend and forward funds to the family coffers.

[catsketcher]

Hello Zig Zag

I loved my Twiggy and really liked Lock but a good designer can draw you a better boat nowadays. A Twiggy has some pretty severe design constraints determined by the 1980 OSTAR Jester class rules that don't make sense today. Also the use of lots of alloy and stainless steel is old fashioned and expensive now that composites have come such a way.

The Bucc 33 will not give you the room you can get from a strip foam modern design. I love tris but think if you are after a good little boat then something like the Alfresco 920 by Tony Grainger is a good start. Almost as fast as a Twiggy, heaps more room, not hard to build and much much easier to sell.

cheers

Phil Thompson

[zigzag]

Thanks catsketcher, your one comment re Grainger, nearly as fast as twiggy.
is a clue to the fact that some alloy and ss didnt slow twiggy down. Why get your hands in more goo and carbonfibre for half a knot? I can go down the road and order some t6 tube then wait in the pub until it arrives. I would like to view the drawings for interest, is your friend interested in sending copies of section and plan 2 scale,if so how much $.
zigzag

[TCP Bob]

I know a young family that cruised... yes cruised on a twiggy. They went fast but did not take much along except the baby and spare toothbrush. My recollection they sold the boat last year in very good order for less than it would cost for materials to build. I think the boat was an interesting milestone but you could come better for the buck by choosing a more current design. But boat building is a sign of brain damage anyway so what the hell.. enjoy!

[catsketcher]

Luke Timmermans and his family cruised on Skinnylegs. they did one trip. My wife and I did two trips north with our baby on our Twiggy before we built a bigger boat. You can cruise on a Twiggy but you would be silly to build one for cruising now. Lock Crowther told me you were silly to cruise on one when I was in 1990.

Tris are great boats but to build an old design is really going to set you back a lot. You will get little room for a boat that is no easier or cheaper than a similar cat. The Alfresco 920 I talked about earlier has about 8 times the usable room as a Twiggy for almost no payoff in cruising performance and pretty much the same build cost and time required. It is a no brainer for me after having owned a Twiggy for 7 great years and built a few cats.

Tris can be great in their trailerable form and there are some great modern tris out there now. Going old will probably not save much time.

Modern glues, stitched fabrics, computer cut panels, composite chainplates, lightweight panels and better design mean that a modern design starts a long long way ahead of a Bucc 33 or Twiggy. You could update the designs if you wanted but what about trying the Explorer 34 from Chris White which is really simple and fast. Look at this in "The case for the cruising multihull" book.

cheers

Phil Thompson

[TCP Bob]

Thats the one... "skinny Legs" with Luke, Niki and baby Evi. Met them off Bowen when they were cruising in company with "Quoll II" 40 foot crowther and "Slow Rush" a schionning 11. All young families. "Slow Rush" had a 4 week old aboard at the time. Saw them all later that year at Lizard Island. amazing how they could provision for that kind of isolation. Last heard they are in the pacific delivering a cat Lukes Mum bought in Central America to deliver back to OZ.

Trailerable tris like the Farrier F9A are still good on the market. I think a reasonably well built version would have a value of about $130K when done with materials cost of around $65K. Build time supposed to be about 2200hours. Trailers are worth about $10K. Arguable figures of course but the point is the modern foldable, trailerable tris are probably the ones that make some kind of sense to invest in and use.

It is good to hear there are efforts to preserve the plans for these remarkable if somewhat dated boats.

[parry]

I have a crowther kraken. I believe to be the race version of the buccaneer. This still has fairly limited room but I do have plans if you are interested. Quite a fast boat in light to medium wind. I have an older design looks a bit dated escpecially where the crossbeams connect to the amas. There are modifications that can be made to give it the more modern 'gull wing' appearance, I'de rather just sail mine rather than have it out on the dry to make the modification.

[zigzag]

Parry, your offer is appreciated, can you send any photos of the kracken?there is one photo that looks like sharks eye view of a flying kraken on the web.I agree on the gull wings issue alloy tube is fine and I would rather have practical, fairly flat foredeck and aka top surfaces with slightly radiused corners perhaps that is why my design interest is a bit retro. What are the ama lengths,overall length, mast height and sail area of the Kraken?

[Pedigree Cats]

The man to ask is Mr Bloomfield, a designer from Crowthers days and now on his own with permission of plans and their use. He is currently working on a new cat for us.

Stuart Bloomfield
Director
Bloomfield Innovation Pty Ltd
Tel. 03 9221 0883 intl: +61 3 9221 0883

Mob. 0417 228 730 intl: +61 417 228 730
Msg. 03 8610 2099 intl: +61 3 8610 2099
Fax. 03 8610 2099 intl: +61 3 8610 2099
VoIP: SIP/3121@sip.atp.org.au (FWD: **832 3121)
email. Stuart@bloomfieldinnovation.com
http://cat-plans.com

[parry]

By the plans, the length of the amas is approx 30-31'. Overall length of the boat is 33', mine has a trasom extension which adds another 3'. Mast height is 44', the original rigging, sidestays do not allow for a roached mainsail. The rig is a masthead rig. I have attached photos of my boat. There are two extra photos, one of the 'gull wing' modification I mentioned before, the other is the closest picture to a kraken built solely off the plan i can find. Other modifications to mine are a coachroof/dog box and more verticle bows than the original design. Any other photos particular photos you want just let me know.

[catsketcher]

Hello Zigzag

At the risk of labouring the point I feel I have to mention something and then I will keep my views to myself. Please do not feel that by building an old design you will find it significantly cheaper or easier to build - it won't be. Putting aluminium beams on a Kraken or Twiggy will not help as you will need significant engineering help to do this. Aluminum is not a super material for beams as it is not homogenous with the hulls. Composite beams can be simple and cheap to build. Epoxy ply beams with a little uni are easy to make, fair and best of all are very easy to join into bulkheads. They also do not need expensive stainless struts and turnbuckles. (The underwire wires, turnbuckles and chainplates would cost about $1500 on a Twiggy - much more than the cost of all the glass on a composite beam. They also cause leaks)

There is always the temptation to underestimate the time and money you will need at the start of a project. Many people think that by doing things a certain way they will save lots of time/money. I have done it myself many times and have had it whacked out of me through experience. Best to save time/money by getting a really good modern design that suits you and allows you to buy in bulk and has lots of drawings so you don't make costly mistakes.

Build a boat for certain - it is a fab way of getting a boat you will really love but don't go down a certain road now. Learn heaps, talk to lots of designers but keep your options open. Sail on lots of boats, write to lots of builders and designers, talk to lots of builders and then make up your mind. Don't do it at the start of your project.

That's it from me

Phil Thompson

[parry]

I would have to agree with the last post. To the best of my knowledge this boat was designed in the early to mid 70's and whilst it is still a reasonably fast boat, I could give you a long list on changes that I would make if I where to build one from scratch. Saying that I am more than willing to help with any information or questions.

[catsketcher]

Hello Parry

Torpid Turtle has a very strong place in my memory. She sat on the beach at Heron Island in 1985 when I was a wide eyed 18 year old. She had her bottom ripped out after an encounter with a reef. I was staying at the research station at Heron and tried to find out her owners. I was going to give up uni and strip plank her bottom and sail away. Many an hour was spent crawled inside and in the cockpit dreaming ( I used to do a lot of that - there was an old Nicol, a nice Searunner 31 that has since died and Verbatim as well)

It is great to hear she is still going strong. We have a few Krakens down here that are fast boats and look awfully sexy.

As an aside John Hitch helped Lock Crowther design the Kraken 33. Hitch owned Bandersnatch, the tri on which Crowthers brother died (along with 3 others) which was lost after coming back from the 1966 multihull Hobart race. They worked on the Kraken 33 which Hitch built and called Manta 2. She was a rocket ship and did over 10 knot average in the 1971 Gladstone Race. No spectra, kevlar or GPS. Manta was a definite evolution of Bandersnatch - bigger and beefier. The hulls look fine now but compared to Bandersnatch they are pretty full. Bandersnatch was like an ice boat.

The gull wing beams are pretty rare. We have one down here with the gull wings - most are the straight box section.

Long live our great tris. We haven't a long history in multihulls but it is a rich and diverse one.

cheers

Phil Thompson

[zigzag]

Does anyone have study plans for Twiggy? Plans for twiggy sold immediately late last year.