Is it worth it to buy a damaged boat?

[Hebron Watson]

Obviously it would depend on how damaged the boat is and what kind of deal you're getting on it, but what is your personal preference with fixing up a damaged boat or buying the pricier, in tact boat?...


I am asking because:
I've found a thirty foot sailboat for $11,000 on the internet. What's the catch? A fire started up in the kitchen once and the entire cabin has endured smoke damage. Also, the owner says that he can't give a statement on the condition of the engine and that it is the buyer's responsibility to check it out, which I swiftly interpretted as: the engine is either hardly working or dead.

Do you think it would be worth it to fix the problem or would that be a bad choice?

Thx to everyone reading this!!!:)

[timgoz]

Hebron,

Post some images & more details. Hard to make a choice when there is not enough info to properly evaluate the boat.

Welcome to the forum.

Tim

[Raggi_Thor]

Then the boat has to be special in some way, because there are so many other boats for sale. What about the smell, will you get rid of that?

[Bergalia]

Both Tim and raggi ask the essential questions. Pictures would help. From a 30 foot sailing craft the engine can't be too big to haul out and work on...if it's worth working on. Even so a second-hand or recon marine engine isn't going to cost that much.
But the biggest question for me would be has the fire damaged any part of the hull structure. What is the fabric ? Timber, glass or steel. has the heat warped the fabric (steel) or in the case of timber produced 'brittle' patches, or blisters in the glass.
The smell Raggi ? Well having spent my working life aboard a diesel powered fishing boat...And now working with goats, The nose soon becomes 'blind' to the smell....which will eventually disperse anyway. :)

[mydauphin]

I have seem a couple Bar-be-qued boats before, they can be repair so it looks like nothing has happened. Engines where better than we thought, had to replace hoses and such but otherwise ok. However, I would never buy them - if hull got black on inside. Simple reason fiberglass lost HARDNESS, the top layers got cooked off. If would repair by sandblasting and reglassing with roving and epoxy. But then is that worth it. Also how are sails? Cost of sails and rigging more than engine.

[PAR]

With a substantial investment in a "fix-er-upper", it would be nothing but wise to have her gone well over by a surveyor.

I wouldn't recommend this type of "project" boat for anyone, who didn't have a healthy budget, a fair sense of humor and the ability to wait. If you are jobbing out the majority of the repairs, then it likely wouldn't serve you to take on this yacht. If you are able to perform many of the repairs yourself, you may find success. Many more of these types of projects are started then ever completed. Planning and keeping to a budget are the keys to success.

[stonebreaker]

I voted yes, because I get as much pleasure out of fixing things as running them. If you don't like fixing things, then it won't be worth it.

[charmc]

It all depends on the extent of the damage. If it's truly smoke damage only, then, yes, it might be worth fixing. Auxiliary engines are pretty rugged, not too difficult to repair, unless the owner ran it without oil or cooling water for any length of time. Worst case; buying a used or rebuilt engine isn't too bad an expense if the hull and deck are sound.

If there is damage from exposure to excessive heat or actual flame, then it's probably not worth the work and cost to repair well enough to restore hull and/or deck integrity.

The answer depends on the results of a thorough inspection, maybe a full survey.

[SamSam]

I asked somewhere before and can't recall getting an answer. It was stated that cured epoxy heated to 180 degrees or so was ruiness to it's chemical and actual structure. I wondered what the temp was for polyester. If a fire is enclosed, even a small one can heat up a small space to temps way above 180 and I would think things like bulkhead tabbings would become suspect if not the hull and deck itself.

[timgoz]

It would be nice if Hebron could provide more details & some images.

He seems to have dropped out of his thread. :)

Tim

[USCGRET/E8]

I would not pay 11K or anything near it for a fixer-upper, unless it was only a few years old. The year was not posted.

[LMannyR]

I enjoy fixing things. So I would say if you have the dough, why not?

I'm doing one now.. a 1983 Wellcraft Aft Cabin with a blown 5.7 merc.

[Kaptin-Jer]

If you need a "therapy" and you are really motivated and you don't have any time restrictions , re-building a damaged boat or restoring a heritage boat is the most self satisfying thing I can think of to do. Contrary to some of the posts I have read, you don't need a lot of money, and the money you will be spending will be spread out over a long time. (possably as much as 5 years if you only have the week-ends to work.) I started out with a 26' project that I bought for $800.00. worked on it for 4 years, gained a great deal of experience and with the help of the very knowledgeable people on this forum competed the boat. I sold it on Ebay and with the money I made I purchased my current boat, a 38' Benny that was cracked in half, sunk and rolled during a hurricane. I have worked 2 years on it so far, I figure another 2 to "finish". I have been offered $40,000.00 for it already, and only the top side is complete. but this is my retirement boat and not for sale. If your dream is to have a yacht that you can't afford, like to work hard and get very dirty on the week-ends, this is the way to go.

[RHP]

If the fire was bad enough to damage the engine then you'd have to worry about the integrity of the hull especially if GRP. $11,000 is a good price based on what? mast, sails, anchor and chain as by the sound of it you'll have to replace everything else - interior, wiring, electronics, engine, galley, plumbing etc... Would it be fun - possibly, would it be a good deal? No. Bucketload of work for emotion gain only. Go find something that needs TLC and not a complete rebuild.

[Ramona]

I asked somewhere before and can't recall getting an answer. It was stated that cured epoxy heated to 180 degrees or so was ruiness to it's chemical and actual structure. I wondered what the temp was for polyester. If a fire is enclosed, even a small one can heat up a small space to temps way above 180 and I would think things like bulkhead tabbings would become suspect if not the hull and deck itself.

Epoxy will become soft when heated but regains its strength when returned to normal temperatures. Obviously there is an upper limit to how much this applies.

I have a friend whose 48 foot yacht was still in the mould when a bush fire ripped through the area, destroyed the factory building etc. The mould was 2 foot from the building wall on the outside. The insurance paid the boat building company out for the damages but when it came to this hull they made the company do core samples to check for any effect of the fire. This was a fibreglass resin hull and very thick. It was found to be in excellent condition, the company doing the tests actually made the statement that the hull had cured better than normal.

[mydauphin]

Epoxy will become soft when heated but regains its strength when returned to normal temperatures. Obviously there is an upper limit to how much this applies.

I have a friend whose 48 foot yacht was still in the mould when a bush fire ripped through the area, destroyed the factory building etc. The mould was 2 foot from the building wall on the outside. The insurance paid the boat building company out for the damages but when it came to this hull they made the company do core samples to check for any effect of the fire. This was a fibreglass resin hull and very thick. It was found to be in excellent condition, the company doing the tests actually made the statement that the hull had cured better than normal.


Epoxy will take the Heat, Regular Fiberglass Resin Wont. I believe the idea of taking a few core samples is a good one. We did on a burnt fiberglass boat and the results where not good. The cloth was left with no resin, it crumbled like particle board. Unfortunately, the boat, a Luhrs, was fixed and sold to a poorer sucker.

[geedee69]

Hi there,
There is an old but rather ture formula for repairing boats thats has always followed me... the job will usually take TWICE as long as you estimate and cost THREE times as much as you originally think... best of luck geedee
geedee70@yahoo.com.au

[Gramp34]

I think good advice has been posted here.

I'll add a couple places to find price information. First, to see what the completed boat would be worth, go to the BUC site at http://www.bucvalue.com/ Hit the "Consumers sign up for free" button and you can look up the book value for this boat.

Second, watch the sailboat listings at eBay (http://motors.listings.ebay.com/Boats_Sailboats_W0QQfclZ3QQfcoZ1QQsacatZ63728QQsocmdZListingItemList). There's an option for seeing the completed listings for the previous two weeks. You can get an idea for what people are paying for boats in comparable condition.

Also, don't fall in love. Stay pragmatic. There's a very small market for project boats. Every time the seller says "this is easy to fix" or "this is cheap to fix", ask why he hasn't fixed it himself. I talked to one seller who described his hurricane dismasted boat as "just needing a thorough cleaning", and another who's "rebuilt engine" was the old engine with a new coat of spray paint (covering rust, oil and dirt). Just because the seller thinks it's valuable, doesn't mean it is.

If you get it, look into professional ozone generators (not the "air purifiers" sold to consumers) for eliminating smoke odors.

Good luck,

Tim

[Spirketting]

Agree with stonebreaker--if you love fixing stuff up, it may well be worth it. Even if that is the case, make sure the price truly reflects the cost to fix it. Lots of people have no desire to fix up broken stuff and you should be able to leverage that if if you do like doing that (I do, fwiw and always look for stuff that's broken in some way).

[mxsailor]

I recently purchased a 43' Nelson-Merek designed Morgan sloop, 1987 with a gutted interior. No motor, most bulkheads gone, but a complete rig, dbl spreader mast, winches... I paid $1000 for the boat and $11K to move it to Mexico where I live. Labor is cheap here, though most of the work I will do myself, and because of climate, can work year-round. The PO (previous owner) rebuilt decks and cabin, but they're rotting away so will need to replace. I would like to redesign this boat to a pilothouse cruiser and open up the interior some. Any ideas where to start?

[keith66]

I have worked on many burnt out boats, i have often found the damage to be quite localised but expect to get filthier and itchier than you can ever imagine, there will be loads of grinding fibreglass and sweating inside a respirator and itching more and more.
I would buy a boat that was up and running and eat steak!

[Kaptin-Jer]

You have to start at the deck to make it water tight or you will loose even more ground in the interior. (I had to replace every toerail bolt) Once the topside is water proof wire in the shore power the add a small A/C unit. You'll need it working down there in Mexico. After that it's up to you. You can fair and paint the hull and then put it in the water, or work on the interior and leave the hull for last, but remember that the boat will change shape when you put it in the water and if you are adding bulkheads and doors they might not fit correctly after you get it in the water.

Good luck, and have fun!

[bart streb]

I am not sure about the currency exchange rate where you are, but $11,000 can buy a really nice boat that has not been fired up in most places (of course it would be older, with typical appeal of an older boat). My first 30 footer was a 72 Plastrend, and it serviced me for years, crappy old Atomic 4 engine and all! There is a Morgan 34 fixer upper near me with an uninstalled brand new diesel engine for I think $6-$7K. That is one I would look into if I was looking to pour money into the hole!

[mxsailor]

Bart,
Thanks for the lead, but I already have a Morgan 33 OI I bought in 1994 and sailed to Mexico in '97. I love the boat and will continue to use it until the N/M is ready. I felt that it was time to step up in size. I'll be retiring in a few years and want to do some long distance voyaging. The 33 would do it, but it's a bit small, and slow. I've had a lot of success in restoring stuff.
And since my last post, the boat has been delivered to a lot nearby. Fencing is now up and scaffolding is being constructed, trailers with generators, tools and materials are onsite. Water will soon be piped in... and this week the temps have dropped from the hundreds to 75-80, and in a few days the mosquitos will be gone. I understand that the boat will change shape when in the water. Thinking of building the interior framing, splash the boat, wait 3 days and then tab in with it in the water. Then pull it out when cured and add decks, rig, etc. Any thoughts?
http://cochrans.com/ranchboat.jpg

[bart streb]

Wow, you are way above my ability! Other guys here will be able to tell you how much you are going to put into replacing the deck, and whatever get's replaced in the interior. I met Bruce Marek once, he used to live on the coast of NC. The boat should be much faster than your Morgan, you will enjoy that (if you enjoy that sort of thing!). You have a nice, blank canvas to start with and create what you want. You will save $ by doing it yourself.

[Kaptin-Jer]

quote "I understand that the boat will change shape when in the water. Thinking of building the interior framing, splash the boat, wait 3 days and then tab in with it in the water. Then pull it out when cured and add decks, rig, etc. Any thoughts?"

Pretty Boat, With a lot less problems then I had when I started. My hull was cracked from the toe rail to the keel. It's been 3 years and I'm still finding dried mud in the Headliner.

I still recommend that you get the boat water tight, finish the hull then put it in the water and do everything else in the water. The attached picture is my Benny. Still 2 more years to go, but it's floating, the A/C is cranking and I can pull my wires and do my varnish work in relative comfort. My hull is only primed not even painted yet - waiting for the Christmas bonus.

[delmarrey]

There are a lot of fairly good 30' boats out there for 11K that would not require so much work/sanding. :confused: I'd be looking around a bit more.

Patients and determination is the key to finding a prize. Search the marinas and the web daily and you'll learn the average values of boats. After a while you'll know when you have found a good buy. And the chances are it'll be right in your neighbor hood. Moving and shipping cost usually out weigh the savings on a boat, unless your really into big money boat$.

It took me two years before I found one that I was willing to put labor and money into. And it should last me the rest of my life because I've re-built it just the way I like a boat to be. :D

[Kaptin-Jer]

It took me two years before I found one that I was willing to put labor and money into. And it should last me the rest of my life because I've re-built it just the way I like a boat to be. :D

That is the real key. You will spend 3 to 6 years working on restoring a 30' boat. It had better be one you want to put that much sweat equity into. Also, you have to believe that it is going to be a "keeper" if you have sale in the back of your mind you will start to take short cuts (like - nobody will be able to see that under there so I'll use duct tape instead of a clamp, or I'll use Easy Poxy instead of Awl Grip, because it will look good until it's sold.) Build it for yourself, to your specifications and you can't go wrong. You will end up with the boat you always dreamed of owning.